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CNN Live Saturday

Massachusetts Fights Over Gay Marriage

Aired February 14, 2004 - 14:31   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


KELLI ARENA, CNN ANCHOR: All right, Massachusetts is another state forced to confront the divisive issue of gay marriage and legal recognition. To debate the issue we have two guests, Matt Daniels is executive the director of the Alliance for Marriage. Winnie Stachelberg, is political director for the Human Rights Campaign. Thank you both for joining us.
MATT DANIELS, ALLIANCE FOR MARRIAGE: Your welcome.

WINNIE STACHELBERG, HUMAN RIGHTS CAMPAIGN: Good to be here.

ARENA: Well you know I just heard something interesting, he said that there are people from out of the state of California has come to San Francisco for these licenses hoping to take them back to their states. What is the likelihood that those licenses will even be recognized?

DANIELS: Really this is a PR stunt. The real battle, which is the battle that is happening in Massachusetts, is the national battle. We are going to see a national definition of marriage inevitably in the next few years. It's going to be debated at the level of the constitution. And this is, in fact a PR stunt in San Francisco.

The real issue is Massachusetts and the exploration of what is happening in Massachusetts to every state in the nation, even though most Americans believe it is common sense that marriage is a man and women. And that gays and lesbians are free to live as they choose but not to redefine marriage for everyone else in America, that is going to be radically challenged in the court so long with the question of what sort of message our laws are going to children about family and marriage.

ARENA: Winnie, I have a feeling you will disagree.

STACHELBERG: I do disagree. I think what is happening in San Francisco, what's happening in Massachusetts and what is happening all over this country is that loving committed couples who want the security and protection that marriage affords, for 1,000 federal benefits, rights and protections are seeking to have that kind of equality under the law. We all ought to live up to the American dream. And that's what's happening around the country.

Marriage is a wonderful institution that ought to be embraced by all people. And it affords legal responsibilities and benefits. You know gay and lesbian couples pay into the social security system all our lives and yet are denied survivor benefits. We can't access family and medical leave in the same way that straight couples can. I think the American people...

ARENA: So why don't civil unions do the job then? I mean why do we call this marriage? Because for many people marriage is a religious institution, it's a sacrament. So civil unions seem to satisfy many of those issues, but still I hear that that may not be enough for some critics. Why not?

STACHELBERG: Civil unions fall short. It's not a semantic problem here. It is not the word marriage and the word civil unions. Civil unions exist in one state now, that's Vermont. And while it's a step in the right direction what Vermont's civil unions does is it provides all of the state level benefits to gay and lesbian couples.

Again a step in the right direction, but it precludes all of those couples and their families from the package of federal benefits, the Social Security survivor benefits, access to family and medical leave, bereavement leave, fair taxation of domestic partner health benefits, extension of health benefits under Cobra if you leave or lose your job.

So while it's a step in the right direction, it's vastly inadequate. So why create a system that sets up second-class citizens, gay and lesbian couples aren't families, why not provide all benefits and rights and protections to gay and lesbian couples?

ARENA: Matt.

DANIELS: This is not about benefits and it never will be. It's a fundamental about marriage, both sides know that. Americans believe the kids do best with a mom and dad and there are unique benefits for children in society when two halves of the human race come together to parent. For example, boys need men, fathers in their lives who can model for them things that only men can teach other men like how to relate to women.

How to make committed relationships with the other half of the human race. That is what you get in marriage with both genders coming together. Gays and lesbians are free to live as they choose, they have the same rights as other Americans but they don't have a right to redefine marriage for our entire nation.

ARENA: How much of an issue is this for the presidential election?

STACHELBERG: I think it's a huge issue because people like Matt Daniels and his group are trying to make it the number one issue in the campaign. While I think the American public is more interested in the economy, and healthcare and education and the safe return of our troops from Iraq, groups like Matt's are actually trying to make this the number one issue. And really what we are seeing...

DANIELS: This is -- actually I think we probably agree. This is bigger than the next election. I think this is more important than the next couple of elections because every man and woman and child in America will live with this for generations to come.

ARENA: I want to thank you both, there is a lot more to this I know. And I thank you both.

DANIELS: You're welcome.

STACHELBERG: Nice to be here.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com







Aired February 14, 2004 - 14:31   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KELLI ARENA, CNN ANCHOR: All right, Massachusetts is another state forced to confront the divisive issue of gay marriage and legal recognition. To debate the issue we have two guests, Matt Daniels is executive the director of the Alliance for Marriage. Winnie Stachelberg, is political director for the Human Rights Campaign. Thank you both for joining us.
MATT DANIELS, ALLIANCE FOR MARRIAGE: Your welcome.

WINNIE STACHELBERG, HUMAN RIGHTS CAMPAIGN: Good to be here.

ARENA: Well you know I just heard something interesting, he said that there are people from out of the state of California has come to San Francisco for these licenses hoping to take them back to their states. What is the likelihood that those licenses will even be recognized?

DANIELS: Really this is a PR stunt. The real battle, which is the battle that is happening in Massachusetts, is the national battle. We are going to see a national definition of marriage inevitably in the next few years. It's going to be debated at the level of the constitution. And this is, in fact a PR stunt in San Francisco.

The real issue is Massachusetts and the exploration of what is happening in Massachusetts to every state in the nation, even though most Americans believe it is common sense that marriage is a man and women. And that gays and lesbians are free to live as they choose but not to redefine marriage for everyone else in America, that is going to be radically challenged in the court so long with the question of what sort of message our laws are going to children about family and marriage.

ARENA: Winnie, I have a feeling you will disagree.

STACHELBERG: I do disagree. I think what is happening in San Francisco, what's happening in Massachusetts and what is happening all over this country is that loving committed couples who want the security and protection that marriage affords, for 1,000 federal benefits, rights and protections are seeking to have that kind of equality under the law. We all ought to live up to the American dream. And that's what's happening around the country.

Marriage is a wonderful institution that ought to be embraced by all people. And it affords legal responsibilities and benefits. You know gay and lesbian couples pay into the social security system all our lives and yet are denied survivor benefits. We can't access family and medical leave in the same way that straight couples can. I think the American people...

ARENA: So why don't civil unions do the job then? I mean why do we call this marriage? Because for many people marriage is a religious institution, it's a sacrament. So civil unions seem to satisfy many of those issues, but still I hear that that may not be enough for some critics. Why not?

STACHELBERG: Civil unions fall short. It's not a semantic problem here. It is not the word marriage and the word civil unions. Civil unions exist in one state now, that's Vermont. And while it's a step in the right direction what Vermont's civil unions does is it provides all of the state level benefits to gay and lesbian couples.

Again a step in the right direction, but it precludes all of those couples and their families from the package of federal benefits, the Social Security survivor benefits, access to family and medical leave, bereavement leave, fair taxation of domestic partner health benefits, extension of health benefits under Cobra if you leave or lose your job.

So while it's a step in the right direction, it's vastly inadequate. So why create a system that sets up second-class citizens, gay and lesbian couples aren't families, why not provide all benefits and rights and protections to gay and lesbian couples?

ARENA: Matt.

DANIELS: This is not about benefits and it never will be. It's a fundamental about marriage, both sides know that. Americans believe the kids do best with a mom and dad and there are unique benefits for children in society when two halves of the human race come together to parent. For example, boys need men, fathers in their lives who can model for them things that only men can teach other men like how to relate to women.

How to make committed relationships with the other half of the human race. That is what you get in marriage with both genders coming together. Gays and lesbians are free to live as they choose, they have the same rights as other Americans but they don't have a right to redefine marriage for our entire nation.

ARENA: How much of an issue is this for the presidential election?

STACHELBERG: I think it's a huge issue because people like Matt Daniels and his group are trying to make it the number one issue in the campaign. While I think the American public is more interested in the economy, and healthcare and education and the safe return of our troops from Iraq, groups like Matt's are actually trying to make this the number one issue. And really what we are seeing...

DANIELS: This is -- actually I think we probably agree. This is bigger than the next election. I think this is more important than the next couple of elections because every man and woman and child in America will live with this for generations to come.

ARENA: I want to thank you both, there is a lot more to this I know. And I thank you both.

DANIELS: You're welcome.

STACHELBERG: Nice to be here.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com