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CNN Live Saturday

Legal Roundtable: Martha Stewart, Michael Jackson

Aired February 14, 2004 - 14:42   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


KELLI ARENA, CNN ANCHOR: We are going to switch gears now from Martha Stewart to Michael Jackson. High profile celebrities and their court cases make news again this week. We will discuss them and other cases in our legal roundtable. Avery Friedman is a civil rights attorney, in Cleveland Richard Herman is a criminal defense attorney normally in New York but he's very lucky and in Baton, Florida right now.
RICHARD HERMAN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Happy Valentine's Day.

ARENA: Happy Valentine's Day to you. Let's start with that crazy Michael Jackson trial, hearing. He didn't show up this time so the fans did not get the big show they got last time.

AVERY FRIEDMAN, CIVIL RIGHTS ATTORNEY: Right. The advantages that we didn't have to see Michael dancing on his SUV. But the good news is that Judge Melville says this case is going to trial this year. On April 2nd there is going to be a mini trail, a preliminary hearing where the government is obligated to lay out its case. So the best is yet to come. They turned over about 400, and actually a total of 900 documents, so now it is going to start getting exciting. We are going to see what the case is really about.

ARENA: We also had Martha Stewart this week. And no testimony from stock market experts.

HERMAN: Well, that's -- what that's going to do is, is it is going to chop the legs off that securities fraud count against her. But it is still a --

ARENA: Which is the most serious count, no?

HERMAN: No question, that brings her ten years plus in prison if convicted on it. That will cut the legs out from it. But it's still alive it is still going to go to the jury. And you know she may very well be the queen of domestic diva land but she gets an "f" in criminal law 101.

She should have never spoken to the cops. She went in to speak to the Feds to discuss off their invitation her transaction with respect to Imclone. She went in with her corporate council from Martha Stewart Inc. Not a criminal attorney she needed a criminal attorney that day, she did not have it. And the hypocrisy of this Martha Stewart case is this, she has -- they're prosecuting her against her attempted cover- up of a transaction, which in and of itself was not illegal.

FRIEDMAN: Oh, no. HERMAN: In the same vain, last week, a special agent from the FBI testified both Thursday and Friday to these interview sessions which took place with Ms. Stewart, and she is recounting specific times and dates of events.

ARENA: All right, I have to butt in. Avery is just dying to get something in here. Go ahead.

FRIEDMAN: You know, is this the same case? Listen, this is a rock-solid case of obstruction of justice. Martha Stewart's charged like other people and the government is likely to prevail. That case is closed. This is the end of the prosecution and it's the securities fraud part of it, and all the judge said is look, you can't use experts. You can put other evidence on. The government will rest this week. Then we'll move on to Martha's defense on Tuesday.

ARENA: I'm going to move on guys to Jason Williams, if I may. Former NBA star. Opening statements. What does the jury have to hear right up front for there to be any momentum for the defense?

HERMAN: What's happened here is the attorney for the defense has chosen to play the race card in this case. When it's a tough case and there's nowhere else to go you pull out that race card. He's playing it because this defense of a suicide is basically preposterous. They brought that shotgun, that Remington rifle into court the other day.

The thing is enormous. I don't know how anybody could have possibly have turned it on themselves and shot themselves. He jumped into the pool, he told people to be quiet. He allegedly took the guy's fingerprints the decedents and put them on the gun. Very, very difficult case. It could have been a --

FRIEDMAN: The race card is not working because the white cop was very supportive. The black cop was against him. Look it there are seven counts in this case Kelly. There's aggravated manslaughter there is tampering of evidence, there is tampering of witnesses. And I think the defense is in a lot of trouble in this case. The race business is not going to work and the defense has their work cut out for them.

HERMAN: The only way he will win is on the race card issue.

FRIEDMAN: I don't agree.

ARENA: All right, I think we have a little bit of time. We had the Terri Schiavo case. It looks like a win for Jeb Bush and the parents.

FRIEDMAN: Unbelievable. What the Court of Appeals did this week is something that is surprising. The Court of Appeals dealt with the issue of standing. That is does an individual have the right to participate in a private dispute? Of course that's what it is. Jeb Bush has taken the position this is a public issue, he wants to get into this private affair.

And the three-judge panel said you know what the trial court was wrong. Not only are the parents going to participate in the trial, but also Jeb Bush's lawyers are going to be examining witnesses. So we have the government involved in a private proceeding.

HERMAN: It is an absolutely tragic situation. And all we can hope for is this poor woman is not in any pain or any agony because there are no winners here.

FRIEDMAN: I agree.

ARENA: Yes, yes. I think we can all agree on that. All right, Avery Friedman, Richard Herman thank you both for joining us.

HERMAN: Thank you.

FRIEDMAN: Thanks Kelli.

ARENA: All right, well our Website is your legal link to the high profile cases making headlines. Log on to CNN.com/law for the latest developments as well as legal opinions and analysis.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com







Aired February 14, 2004 - 14:42   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KELLI ARENA, CNN ANCHOR: We are going to switch gears now from Martha Stewart to Michael Jackson. High profile celebrities and their court cases make news again this week. We will discuss them and other cases in our legal roundtable. Avery Friedman is a civil rights attorney, in Cleveland Richard Herman is a criminal defense attorney normally in New York but he's very lucky and in Baton, Florida right now.
RICHARD HERMAN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Happy Valentine's Day.

ARENA: Happy Valentine's Day to you. Let's start with that crazy Michael Jackson trial, hearing. He didn't show up this time so the fans did not get the big show they got last time.

AVERY FRIEDMAN, CIVIL RIGHTS ATTORNEY: Right. The advantages that we didn't have to see Michael dancing on his SUV. But the good news is that Judge Melville says this case is going to trial this year. On April 2nd there is going to be a mini trail, a preliminary hearing where the government is obligated to lay out its case. So the best is yet to come. They turned over about 400, and actually a total of 900 documents, so now it is going to start getting exciting. We are going to see what the case is really about.

ARENA: We also had Martha Stewart this week. And no testimony from stock market experts.

HERMAN: Well, that's -- what that's going to do is, is it is going to chop the legs off that securities fraud count against her. But it is still a --

ARENA: Which is the most serious count, no?

HERMAN: No question, that brings her ten years plus in prison if convicted on it. That will cut the legs out from it. But it's still alive it is still going to go to the jury. And you know she may very well be the queen of domestic diva land but she gets an "f" in criminal law 101.

She should have never spoken to the cops. She went in to speak to the Feds to discuss off their invitation her transaction with respect to Imclone. She went in with her corporate council from Martha Stewart Inc. Not a criminal attorney she needed a criminal attorney that day, she did not have it. And the hypocrisy of this Martha Stewart case is this, she has -- they're prosecuting her against her attempted cover- up of a transaction, which in and of itself was not illegal.

FRIEDMAN: Oh, no. HERMAN: In the same vain, last week, a special agent from the FBI testified both Thursday and Friday to these interview sessions which took place with Ms. Stewart, and she is recounting specific times and dates of events.

ARENA: All right, I have to butt in. Avery is just dying to get something in here. Go ahead.

FRIEDMAN: You know, is this the same case? Listen, this is a rock-solid case of obstruction of justice. Martha Stewart's charged like other people and the government is likely to prevail. That case is closed. This is the end of the prosecution and it's the securities fraud part of it, and all the judge said is look, you can't use experts. You can put other evidence on. The government will rest this week. Then we'll move on to Martha's defense on Tuesday.

ARENA: I'm going to move on guys to Jason Williams, if I may. Former NBA star. Opening statements. What does the jury have to hear right up front for there to be any momentum for the defense?

HERMAN: What's happened here is the attorney for the defense has chosen to play the race card in this case. When it's a tough case and there's nowhere else to go you pull out that race card. He's playing it because this defense of a suicide is basically preposterous. They brought that shotgun, that Remington rifle into court the other day.

The thing is enormous. I don't know how anybody could have possibly have turned it on themselves and shot themselves. He jumped into the pool, he told people to be quiet. He allegedly took the guy's fingerprints the decedents and put them on the gun. Very, very difficult case. It could have been a --

FRIEDMAN: The race card is not working because the white cop was very supportive. The black cop was against him. Look it there are seven counts in this case Kelly. There's aggravated manslaughter there is tampering of evidence, there is tampering of witnesses. And I think the defense is in a lot of trouble in this case. The race business is not going to work and the defense has their work cut out for them.

HERMAN: The only way he will win is on the race card issue.

FRIEDMAN: I don't agree.

ARENA: All right, I think we have a little bit of time. We had the Terri Schiavo case. It looks like a win for Jeb Bush and the parents.

FRIEDMAN: Unbelievable. What the Court of Appeals did this week is something that is surprising. The Court of Appeals dealt with the issue of standing. That is does an individual have the right to participate in a private dispute? Of course that's what it is. Jeb Bush has taken the position this is a public issue, he wants to get into this private affair.

And the three-judge panel said you know what the trial court was wrong. Not only are the parents going to participate in the trial, but also Jeb Bush's lawyers are going to be examining witnesses. So we have the government involved in a private proceeding.

HERMAN: It is an absolutely tragic situation. And all we can hope for is this poor woman is not in any pain or any agony because there are no winners here.

FRIEDMAN: I agree.

ARENA: Yes, yes. I think we can all agree on that. All right, Avery Friedman, Richard Herman thank you both for joining us.

HERMAN: Thank you.

FRIEDMAN: Thanks Kelli.

ARENA: All right, well our Website is your legal link to the high profile cases making headlines. Log on to CNN.com/law for the latest developments as well as legal opinions and analysis.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com