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"Dollar Signs": Money Woes Destroying Valentine's Day
Aired February 14, 2004 - 16:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KELLI ARENA, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome to "Dollar Signs" where we help you make the most of your money. And this Valentine's Day you may be putting your wallet where your heart is. Do you know what can be the biggest wet blanket smothering out all those warm, fuzzy, romantic feelings? Here's a hint, it's green, and no we're not talking about jealousy, it's money.
67 percent of couples say their biggest arguments about money are over spending. So if you have romance on your mind, today we're going to give you some practical advice about love, money, and marriage.
We all have personal spending habits and our own ideas about money. One of the keys to a happy marriage is to have those habits and ideas in sync with the one that you love. And if you're not, our guests today are going to help you find some common ground.
Jeff Opdyke is the personal finance writer for the "Wall Street Journal." He's in New York. And he's the author of "Love & Money."
Jennifer Openshaw is the CEO of the Family Financial Network. And she's the author of "The Quick and Easy Budget Kit." She joins us from Los Angeles. Hello both of you.
JENNIFER OPENSHAW, CEO FAMILY FINANCIAL NETWORK: Hi, Kelli, great to be here.
ARENA: There are a couple of basic talking points that I'd like to start with today. Number one, earnings and salary. How does this affect a couple's relationship? And then number two, spenders versus savers. How do those two things come together? Jennifer, why don't we start with you?
OPENSHAW: Well, I think so many times we see money dictating control in a relationship. You know, traditionally, Kelli, it was that the man was the primary bread winner and he would pay the bills and maybe invest the money, make most of the money decisions. Today that's changing so much because 70 percent of households are dual income households.
But yet still some women are maybe taking care of the kids at home, and when one person is bringing home most of the bacon, it can leave the other person maybe feeling like gosh, I don't know if I can spend on things for me. I've had one woman say, for example, that she feels like she can only spend money on the groceries.
So when couples don't talk about how they're going to spend that money, and really treat both people as equals in the relationship, they can set themselves up for some conflicts down the road.
ARENA: And Jeff, it probably is worse when a woman makes the lion's share of the salary, how can I man deal with that well?
JEFF OPKYDE, "WALL STREET JOURNAL: That's a challenge, because it reverses the roles that people are so used to. And it puts women, actually, in a different position, because they feel sometimes that they have to sort of stroke their partner's ego, because he feels like he's sort of underperforming in the marriage somehow, that he's not bringing in the lion's share of the money.
And sometimes you see men react to that by trying to take control of the family finances and sort of exclude their wives from that. And the guys have to learn they just can't do that. They should be happy that their wife is out proving that she's, you know, capable of earning a great salary. That's good.
The women have to sort of also stand up for themselves, as well. They can't cow down a little bit and let the man take control. They have to stand up and say I earn it, I should have some control over it, as well.
OPENSHAW: Jeff, that's actually a great point if I can interject there. It's interesting, because so many more women today are becoming primary bread winners in the home. And what I see, too, so many people have seen other people working so hard and not spending time with the kids, that some men are starting to come to appreciate the fact that gosh, now maybe I can be home with the kids, and be the father that I always wanted to be. And so, it's maybe hard for people to enjoy that role reversal but it's happening a lot more as I'm seeing.
ARENA: What about this whole spending versus savers? As people get married or get together, sometimes in their 30s, late 30s, you know, you're up against -- you're coming up against the clock of having to save, but you're just starting out, as well, maybe buying a home together and so on. How do the two mesh?
OPENSHAW: Well, that's a great question, because so many people usually when they're married, one is a spender, one's a saver and I think eventually they need to some in sync. I think, the best way folks can do that is to sit down and talk about their goals. I like to encourage folks to take a financial date, you know, make your partner, your spouse, your money honey and talk about what's really important to you.
And a lot of times people's eyes will start to open up, when they learn from their partner. One person might be making -- drawing conclusions that the other is spending lots of money on golf and things for him, and not saving for the family when maybe, in fact, they are. Or, of course, maybe they come into an inheritance and one wants to spend it all while another wants to save for that larger house or so forth.
I actually encourage folks to develop a spending plan, and a great tool for them to use is the "Quick and Easy Budget Kit" has a feature that allows people to come up with what do they think they're spending on a monthly basis. And I have a husband and a wife do it -- a husband and a wife do that. And then compare their estimated expenses and sometimes they're surprised and it's a great place for starting the conversation.
ARENA: Jeff, what do you have to add?
OPDYKE: Actually, I want to pick up a little bit what jennifer is talking about, a spending plan. One of the things that's really great about a spending plan which I discuss in one of the first chapters of my book is what it does is it forces both husband and wife to actually sit down and talk about their money, because they both have to voice their wants for their finances.
After you go off and you spend all your money on your car note and your mortgage and whatnot, you have X amount of dollars left over at the end of the month. And how do you want that as a couple to be spent? Do you want to pay down debt? Do you want to use the money to plan for a vacation? You just can't go off and use the money on your own and say I'm going to buy a new set of golf clubs because I deserve it. You have to talk to your wife about it. And she has to talk to you about what she wants so it forces you to be open about your finances in your life and it creates sort of a financial unity in your life.
ARENA: Jeff, I know a couple that actually has to check in with each other if they spend more than $100 on a purchase. They can do up to $100, but anything after that they call each other and say okay I'm looking at this really great handbag, honey, it's $300, can I go for it? Is that good advice to follow?
OPDYKE: I think it's great advice to follow, because it makes you, again, talk to your spouse about spending. That's actually something I recommend in the book. Is that, you know, you can create a joint financial life and still live sort of some independent existence in that by doing exactly what you're talking about. Give each other an up to amount. Up to $100, $500, whatever the number is you feel comfortable with, you are allowed to go off and spend that kind of money on any given month and you don't have to ask me about it.
But when it comes to something larger than that, then we need to sit down and talk about it and make sure this is how we really want to spend the family's resources.
OPENSHAW: I think, you know, if I could add there, I think that's a great idea. One thing, though, that can also happen is that those little expenses can really add up. I mean, buying a newspaper here, a candy bar there, a soda pop here and people forget about that. And you know, just to give you an idea, a bottle of water a lot of people buy every day, $1.50 if you were to invest that every day instead of over 30 years, it could grow to $100,000. Very surprising to people.
So, think again, thinking about where we want our money to go, because most people don't. As we know from the statistics, it's the spending that creates most of the conflicts in first marriages, especially.
ARENA: All right, we're going to talk a whole lot more. Your calls and e-mails next on "Dollar Signs." And of course, you can still send your questions to dollarsigns@cnn.com. Or you can call in. That number is 1-800-807-2620. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ARENA: Welcome back to "Dollar Signs." We're tackling a subject today that is taboo for many couples, money. Jeff Opdyke with the "Wall Street Journal" and Jennifer Openenshaw with the Family Financial Network are sharing their perspectives on how you can resolve the money conflicts in your relationship.
Now we do have a call from Paul in New York. Paul, are you with us?
CALLER: Yes.
ARENA: What's your question?
CALLER: My question is, let's say you started a business before you got married, such as an Internet business, and you're waiting for it to become profitable and you're married and everything's going good and then your other partner looks at the business, and unless she thinks that it's profitable immediately when your goal is to eventually make it profitable and she see it as a possible drain on your expenditures, and basically a waste of money because, you know, she's looking at it differently, how would you address that?
OPDYKE: Jennifer, you want to take that?
OPENSHAW: Yes, this is great. I think first of all it's clear that you started this business before you entered the relationship, so just to sort of tackle that off the bat. One of the things that you might want to think about is a prenup. It might sound unromantic but it's becoming much more common, particularly with people who have businesses.
And I also think, then, when it comes to how you spend your money together, if he sees that as a drain, one of the things you might do, then, is to decide how much each of you is going to contribute to paying the family bills, utility bills, et cetera and maybe it's on a pro rata basis, based on how much each of you earn. But the two of you decide. And then you manage your checkbook separately. So that if you want to continue investing your money in that business, great.
On the other hand, if she saw it as a potential, maybe she wanted to invest some of her time and maybe some of her money, and she would then get an equity stake and of course you'd want to put that in writing.
OPDYKE: Let me add one thing here. There's an issue you need to think about called values. There may -- she grew up, you grew up differently. You both have different values as it relates to money. And she may be reacting negatively to this, because of some sort of financial trauma or shock she had in her own life and she sees this as possibly saping the resources you're going to one day need to live financially secure.
So one thing to do is sit down and just talk to her about it. Try and understand what it is about her fear of you running this business, and the fear of maybe going bankrupt or whatever that has her scared about it. And you can begin to understand a little more how she's viewing this. You might be able to talk her into it. At least have her understand why you want to do this, and you're not as fearless as she is.
OPENSHAW: That's such a great point, Jeff. Because you know, most women didn't grow up talking about money as much as men did. And yet, she might even be surprised to learn that actually the biggest area of growth of companies is among women. Women who want the flexibility in their life, which is maybe something that's of value to you.
And so, Jeff's absolutely right. I mean, she might have experienced something. She might have a fear about money that's making it very tough for her to take the risk, and indeed it is a risk when you're starting a business.
ARENA: All right, we have an e-mail that we just got from Treo who says, "how can I better communicate to my wife that she can purchase the things that she needs?" Jeff?
OPDYKE: Well it sounds like his wife is a compulsive saver, actually, if I understand that question properly.
ARENA: Not my problem.
OPDYKE: How you communicate that. You sort of sit down, possibly, and you say you know what? I don't think you're spending on things you want to spend on because you have some sort of money concern. So let's go through the family finances, and let me show you what we have and how much we're saving and where it's going and I'll show you that we have the extraneous income that you can use to buy some of the nicer things in life that I want you to have and I think you deserve.
ARENA: Jennifer, anything to add?
OPENSHAW: Yes. You know, I remember when I was actually on "Oprah" we had a woman who, she spent -- she bought 80 pair of shoes for herself, you know, sort of a different problem. But one of the things we had this couple do and they still do it today, is that they create little pots of money for certain things. And so they might decide how much money, for example, that the woman is getting for the things that she wants. It might be to go out to lunch with friends. It might be for a weekend trip getaway.
And so, again, if you prepare a budget, and we have folks do this with a "Quick and Easy Budget Kit," they can decide how much each of them is going to be able to have to do the things they want in life, while still meeting the other needs that they have. ARENA: We have another phone call from John in New Jersey. John, go ahead.
CALLER: Yes. I want to know why is it that -- I want to know why is it that when women make more money than men, they want to call the shots.
OPDYKE: I didn't hear the question, actually.
CALLER: I want to know why is it when women make more money than the men they want to call the shots in the relationship.
OPENSHAW: When men make more money.
ARENA: When women make more money than men, why do they want to call the shots in the relationship?
OPDYKE: I don't know that that's actually true all the time. That's probably true on an individual case by case basis. A lot of times women don't want to call the shots, because they feel they have to sort of relinquish some power in the relationship, which can be just as destructive.
But then again, if there's a situation where women want to call the shots, you know, she's feeling the power in the relationship. And she wants to exert that power over the relationship, and there may be some sort of emotional issue involved there that you need to sort of talk about.
OPENSHAW: You know, a lot of times there's usually one person in the relationship, I see this a lot, that is a little bit stronger, a little bit more powerful, a little more demanding in the relationship. And I think that the other person has to remember that they have a right, so as long as they're a spouse and they're part of the family unit, they have a right to that.
Sometimes it means that they have to learn to be a little stronger in representing their own interests. Because it's so easy in that situation to sort of get lost and feel like, you know, they don't have any right to anything. And again the best is when both people are talking and making these decisions together.
ARENA: All right. We have an e-mail from Glenn in Austin, Texas. And Glenn writes, "I spent $30,000 on," is it 30,000, did he say? Yes. "on the last person I was involved in a four year relationship. Was not appreciated for being so nice. My advice, be indepentant and make sure your partner is also financially not co- dependant on you." So more of a statement. Do you agree with that, Jeff?
OPDYKE: Yes, and no. I mean, there's a bit of bitterness in there, obviously. And to some degree it gets back to what Jennifer was talking about a minute ago in a prenup. You know, if this guy were to go into a relationship again and fearing he was going to lose money, you can sit down and talk to your partner about the sour experience you had before and talk about the financial issues you have going into the new relationship and the assets you'd like to protect. And you can do it with a prenup. But I don't necessarily think that, you know, every relationship is like this.
OPENSHAW: You know...
ARENA: Go ahead.
OPENSHAW: Love sometimes makes people a little stupid, if I can say. And we sometimes feel like we have to spend money to show somebody else that they're valuable to us. And I think that's really the wrong way to think about it. I think this gentleman, and most people, should really think about building their own financial security so that when they bring somebody into a relationship, into marriage, they're in a much better -- much more stable footing. You know, they're going to be able to achieve the things that they want together.
And so you know, I mean we see so many ads about spending thousands of dollars on diamonds and it's so easy to get hooked into that. But I think in the long run you've got to really wonder, you know, what does that say about somebody who wants that from somebody else? And maybe about you when you're spending that kind of money, because that's a lot of money.
ARENA: It sure is. Jeff, Jennifer, stay with us. And you stay with us, too. We'll take more of your calls and e-mails.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ARENA: Welcome back to "Dollar Signs." According to the vows, marriage is for richer or poorer, but it's amazing how many couples don't get a clear view of each other's spending habits before they wed. Jeff Opdyke and Jennifer Openshaw are taking your calls and e- mails so you can resolve the financial issues that trouble many marriages.
We've got Patricia on the phone from Louisiana. Patricia, go ahead.
CALLER: My question is, I'm getting married in August, and I own the home, both cars, and a $25,000 savings account, and my fiance is recovering from extremely bad credit. Should I get a prenup or be more interested in adding his name to my assets to help him out?
ARENA: Jennifer?
OPENSHAW: I would be very -- first of all, congratulations. I hope that you are getting in money sync as you're entering this new relationship, because it is time for a fresh start. But I would be concerned about somebody's behavior, because it can certainly impact your credit.
I mean, just to give you an idea, if the two of you take out a credit card or buy a home together, let's say your next home, and maybe you expect that he's paying the bills, but, indeed, he's not, or he encounters some problems, that's going to have an impact on your credit and that credit is used for so many things, including even getting a job.
I think you might want to think about a prenup. It really depends on, you know, how you feel about the relationship. And Jeff would probably be in an even better position to talk about that. You know, do you want to really share those things that you're bringing into the relationship?
And the most important thing is to think about, unfortunately, the worst case scenario, what happens if you split up three or five years down the road? Are you going to feel frustrated that you did that? or would you feel better being able to take those assets on with you?
OPDYKE: I agree with Jennifer. If you are going into this marriage and you don't mind losing, I mean it's taking a risk and you lose part of it, then you know, don't worry about the prenup. Louisiana as I recall is a 50/50 state. But if you do have concerns that these are your assets and if something were to happen to this marriage and you want to preserve the assets that you have prior to the marriage, then you and your fiance should maybe make a list together of all the financial issues you have. All the financial concerns and worries and dreams and wants you both have together and include on there your dreams, or your wants of protecting these particular assets and you can start of approach talking about a prenup in that way. That way you don't have this big glaring light shining on the prord prenup which is going to scare people off because we offer up defenses when we hear that word. So, you wrap it in a context of a list of all of your financial issues, it may be a little easier to address it with your fiance that way.
ARENA: All right. We have a word of advice from Mike and Donna Stevens on the Internet who say, "Our first house cost $69,000 to save for it. We each carried a small notepad and wrote down every paper, pop, gas, candy bar, coffee expenditure we made for a year. The challenge was, who could spend the least each month." Jennifer, is this a good idea to write it all down in some situations?
OPENSHAW: I think in some situations. I have to admit, I think it's a little tedious for a lot of people and that's why we created a software CD that makes it a little easier, I think a lot easier, actually, with the budget the "quick and Easy Budget Kit." But I think that's so great that they took the time to do that, because let's face it, buying a home today for young couples is so difficult.
And just to touch on that issue for a moment. I mean, down payments with prices skyrocketing, some of the things that I'm seeing are it's become a little bit more of a family affair where even the parents are coming in, or the grandparents, a great way for the grandparents to gift some money to their grandchildren who are maybe getting married and buying their first home.
ARENA: Jeff, we've got a call from Joe in California for you. Joe, go ahead.
CALLER: I'd like to get some advice. I've been married over 42 years, I have the greatest wife in the world. Our main deal is we worked as a team, whether we bought anything, spend anything, I spent 50 or she spent, we worked as a team, and we each got the same amount. We never fought over money. And I was -- had a marriage in heaven.
She's in heaven right now. But, I wish everybody would remember you're a team. Nobody's a boss. You work as a team. That's my advice for everybody. And I think you're doing a good job.
OPDYKE: That's perfect advice. That's the whole point of my book, and that's the whole point of the Sunday column I write on love and money is that at some point you really do have to work as a team. And you're in this life together. And it's not my finances and your finances, it's our finances. It's our money. And we have to decide together how to spend this and save it.
ARENA: You know, that's a great note to end on on this valentine's day. Thank you both for joining us. That is all the time that we have for now. But stay with CNN.
END
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Aired February 14, 2004 - 16:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KELLI ARENA, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome to "Dollar Signs" where we help you make the most of your money. And this Valentine's Day you may be putting your wallet where your heart is. Do you know what can be the biggest wet blanket smothering out all those warm, fuzzy, romantic feelings? Here's a hint, it's green, and no we're not talking about jealousy, it's money.
67 percent of couples say their biggest arguments about money are over spending. So if you have romance on your mind, today we're going to give you some practical advice about love, money, and marriage.
We all have personal spending habits and our own ideas about money. One of the keys to a happy marriage is to have those habits and ideas in sync with the one that you love. And if you're not, our guests today are going to help you find some common ground.
Jeff Opdyke is the personal finance writer for the "Wall Street Journal." He's in New York. And he's the author of "Love & Money."
Jennifer Openshaw is the CEO of the Family Financial Network. And she's the author of "The Quick and Easy Budget Kit." She joins us from Los Angeles. Hello both of you.
JENNIFER OPENSHAW, CEO FAMILY FINANCIAL NETWORK: Hi, Kelli, great to be here.
ARENA: There are a couple of basic talking points that I'd like to start with today. Number one, earnings and salary. How does this affect a couple's relationship? And then number two, spenders versus savers. How do those two things come together? Jennifer, why don't we start with you?
OPENSHAW: Well, I think so many times we see money dictating control in a relationship. You know, traditionally, Kelli, it was that the man was the primary bread winner and he would pay the bills and maybe invest the money, make most of the money decisions. Today that's changing so much because 70 percent of households are dual income households.
But yet still some women are maybe taking care of the kids at home, and when one person is bringing home most of the bacon, it can leave the other person maybe feeling like gosh, I don't know if I can spend on things for me. I've had one woman say, for example, that she feels like she can only spend money on the groceries.
So when couples don't talk about how they're going to spend that money, and really treat both people as equals in the relationship, they can set themselves up for some conflicts down the road.
ARENA: And Jeff, it probably is worse when a woman makes the lion's share of the salary, how can I man deal with that well?
JEFF OPKYDE, "WALL STREET JOURNAL: That's a challenge, because it reverses the roles that people are so used to. And it puts women, actually, in a different position, because they feel sometimes that they have to sort of stroke their partner's ego, because he feels like he's sort of underperforming in the marriage somehow, that he's not bringing in the lion's share of the money.
And sometimes you see men react to that by trying to take control of the family finances and sort of exclude their wives from that. And the guys have to learn they just can't do that. They should be happy that their wife is out proving that she's, you know, capable of earning a great salary. That's good.
The women have to sort of also stand up for themselves, as well. They can't cow down a little bit and let the man take control. They have to stand up and say I earn it, I should have some control over it, as well.
OPENSHAW: Jeff, that's actually a great point if I can interject there. It's interesting, because so many more women today are becoming primary bread winners in the home. And what I see, too, so many people have seen other people working so hard and not spending time with the kids, that some men are starting to come to appreciate the fact that gosh, now maybe I can be home with the kids, and be the father that I always wanted to be. And so, it's maybe hard for people to enjoy that role reversal but it's happening a lot more as I'm seeing.
ARENA: What about this whole spending versus savers? As people get married or get together, sometimes in their 30s, late 30s, you know, you're up against -- you're coming up against the clock of having to save, but you're just starting out, as well, maybe buying a home together and so on. How do the two mesh?
OPENSHAW: Well, that's a great question, because so many people usually when they're married, one is a spender, one's a saver and I think eventually they need to some in sync. I think, the best way folks can do that is to sit down and talk about their goals. I like to encourage folks to take a financial date, you know, make your partner, your spouse, your money honey and talk about what's really important to you.
And a lot of times people's eyes will start to open up, when they learn from their partner. One person might be making -- drawing conclusions that the other is spending lots of money on golf and things for him, and not saving for the family when maybe, in fact, they are. Or, of course, maybe they come into an inheritance and one wants to spend it all while another wants to save for that larger house or so forth.
I actually encourage folks to develop a spending plan, and a great tool for them to use is the "Quick and Easy Budget Kit" has a feature that allows people to come up with what do they think they're spending on a monthly basis. And I have a husband and a wife do it -- a husband and a wife do that. And then compare their estimated expenses and sometimes they're surprised and it's a great place for starting the conversation.
ARENA: Jeff, what do you have to add?
OPDYKE: Actually, I want to pick up a little bit what jennifer is talking about, a spending plan. One of the things that's really great about a spending plan which I discuss in one of the first chapters of my book is what it does is it forces both husband and wife to actually sit down and talk about their money, because they both have to voice their wants for their finances.
After you go off and you spend all your money on your car note and your mortgage and whatnot, you have X amount of dollars left over at the end of the month. And how do you want that as a couple to be spent? Do you want to pay down debt? Do you want to use the money to plan for a vacation? You just can't go off and use the money on your own and say I'm going to buy a new set of golf clubs because I deserve it. You have to talk to your wife about it. And she has to talk to you about what she wants so it forces you to be open about your finances in your life and it creates sort of a financial unity in your life.
ARENA: Jeff, I know a couple that actually has to check in with each other if they spend more than $100 on a purchase. They can do up to $100, but anything after that they call each other and say okay I'm looking at this really great handbag, honey, it's $300, can I go for it? Is that good advice to follow?
OPDYKE: I think it's great advice to follow, because it makes you, again, talk to your spouse about spending. That's actually something I recommend in the book. Is that, you know, you can create a joint financial life and still live sort of some independent existence in that by doing exactly what you're talking about. Give each other an up to amount. Up to $100, $500, whatever the number is you feel comfortable with, you are allowed to go off and spend that kind of money on any given month and you don't have to ask me about it.
But when it comes to something larger than that, then we need to sit down and talk about it and make sure this is how we really want to spend the family's resources.
OPENSHAW: I think, you know, if I could add there, I think that's a great idea. One thing, though, that can also happen is that those little expenses can really add up. I mean, buying a newspaper here, a candy bar there, a soda pop here and people forget about that. And you know, just to give you an idea, a bottle of water a lot of people buy every day, $1.50 if you were to invest that every day instead of over 30 years, it could grow to $100,000. Very surprising to people.
So, think again, thinking about where we want our money to go, because most people don't. As we know from the statistics, it's the spending that creates most of the conflicts in first marriages, especially.
ARENA: All right, we're going to talk a whole lot more. Your calls and e-mails next on "Dollar Signs." And of course, you can still send your questions to dollarsigns@cnn.com. Or you can call in. That number is 1-800-807-2620. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ARENA: Welcome back to "Dollar Signs." We're tackling a subject today that is taboo for many couples, money. Jeff Opdyke with the "Wall Street Journal" and Jennifer Openenshaw with the Family Financial Network are sharing their perspectives on how you can resolve the money conflicts in your relationship.
Now we do have a call from Paul in New York. Paul, are you with us?
CALLER: Yes.
ARENA: What's your question?
CALLER: My question is, let's say you started a business before you got married, such as an Internet business, and you're waiting for it to become profitable and you're married and everything's going good and then your other partner looks at the business, and unless she thinks that it's profitable immediately when your goal is to eventually make it profitable and she see it as a possible drain on your expenditures, and basically a waste of money because, you know, she's looking at it differently, how would you address that?
OPDYKE: Jennifer, you want to take that?
OPENSHAW: Yes, this is great. I think first of all it's clear that you started this business before you entered the relationship, so just to sort of tackle that off the bat. One of the things that you might want to think about is a prenup. It might sound unromantic but it's becoming much more common, particularly with people who have businesses.
And I also think, then, when it comes to how you spend your money together, if he sees that as a drain, one of the things you might do, then, is to decide how much each of you is going to contribute to paying the family bills, utility bills, et cetera and maybe it's on a pro rata basis, based on how much each of you earn. But the two of you decide. And then you manage your checkbook separately. So that if you want to continue investing your money in that business, great.
On the other hand, if she saw it as a potential, maybe she wanted to invest some of her time and maybe some of her money, and she would then get an equity stake and of course you'd want to put that in writing.
OPDYKE: Let me add one thing here. There's an issue you need to think about called values. There may -- she grew up, you grew up differently. You both have different values as it relates to money. And she may be reacting negatively to this, because of some sort of financial trauma or shock she had in her own life and she sees this as possibly saping the resources you're going to one day need to live financially secure.
So one thing to do is sit down and just talk to her about it. Try and understand what it is about her fear of you running this business, and the fear of maybe going bankrupt or whatever that has her scared about it. And you can begin to understand a little more how she's viewing this. You might be able to talk her into it. At least have her understand why you want to do this, and you're not as fearless as she is.
OPENSHAW: That's such a great point, Jeff. Because you know, most women didn't grow up talking about money as much as men did. And yet, she might even be surprised to learn that actually the biggest area of growth of companies is among women. Women who want the flexibility in their life, which is maybe something that's of value to you.
And so, Jeff's absolutely right. I mean, she might have experienced something. She might have a fear about money that's making it very tough for her to take the risk, and indeed it is a risk when you're starting a business.
ARENA: All right, we have an e-mail that we just got from Treo who says, "how can I better communicate to my wife that she can purchase the things that she needs?" Jeff?
OPDYKE: Well it sounds like his wife is a compulsive saver, actually, if I understand that question properly.
ARENA: Not my problem.
OPDYKE: How you communicate that. You sort of sit down, possibly, and you say you know what? I don't think you're spending on things you want to spend on because you have some sort of money concern. So let's go through the family finances, and let me show you what we have and how much we're saving and where it's going and I'll show you that we have the extraneous income that you can use to buy some of the nicer things in life that I want you to have and I think you deserve.
ARENA: Jennifer, anything to add?
OPENSHAW: Yes. You know, I remember when I was actually on "Oprah" we had a woman who, she spent -- she bought 80 pair of shoes for herself, you know, sort of a different problem. But one of the things we had this couple do and they still do it today, is that they create little pots of money for certain things. And so they might decide how much money, for example, that the woman is getting for the things that she wants. It might be to go out to lunch with friends. It might be for a weekend trip getaway.
And so, again, if you prepare a budget, and we have folks do this with a "Quick and Easy Budget Kit," they can decide how much each of them is going to be able to have to do the things they want in life, while still meeting the other needs that they have. ARENA: We have another phone call from John in New Jersey. John, go ahead.
CALLER: Yes. I want to know why is it that -- I want to know why is it that when women make more money than men, they want to call the shots.
OPDYKE: I didn't hear the question, actually.
CALLER: I want to know why is it when women make more money than the men they want to call the shots in the relationship.
OPENSHAW: When men make more money.
ARENA: When women make more money than men, why do they want to call the shots in the relationship?
OPDYKE: I don't know that that's actually true all the time. That's probably true on an individual case by case basis. A lot of times women don't want to call the shots, because they feel they have to sort of relinquish some power in the relationship, which can be just as destructive.
But then again, if there's a situation where women want to call the shots, you know, she's feeling the power in the relationship. And she wants to exert that power over the relationship, and there may be some sort of emotional issue involved there that you need to sort of talk about.
OPENSHAW: You know, a lot of times there's usually one person in the relationship, I see this a lot, that is a little bit stronger, a little bit more powerful, a little more demanding in the relationship. And I think that the other person has to remember that they have a right, so as long as they're a spouse and they're part of the family unit, they have a right to that.
Sometimes it means that they have to learn to be a little stronger in representing their own interests. Because it's so easy in that situation to sort of get lost and feel like, you know, they don't have any right to anything. And again the best is when both people are talking and making these decisions together.
ARENA: All right. We have an e-mail from Glenn in Austin, Texas. And Glenn writes, "I spent $30,000 on," is it 30,000, did he say? Yes. "on the last person I was involved in a four year relationship. Was not appreciated for being so nice. My advice, be indepentant and make sure your partner is also financially not co- dependant on you." So more of a statement. Do you agree with that, Jeff?
OPDYKE: Yes, and no. I mean, there's a bit of bitterness in there, obviously. And to some degree it gets back to what Jennifer was talking about a minute ago in a prenup. You know, if this guy were to go into a relationship again and fearing he was going to lose money, you can sit down and talk to your partner about the sour experience you had before and talk about the financial issues you have going into the new relationship and the assets you'd like to protect. And you can do it with a prenup. But I don't necessarily think that, you know, every relationship is like this.
OPENSHAW: You know...
ARENA: Go ahead.
OPENSHAW: Love sometimes makes people a little stupid, if I can say. And we sometimes feel like we have to spend money to show somebody else that they're valuable to us. And I think that's really the wrong way to think about it. I think this gentleman, and most people, should really think about building their own financial security so that when they bring somebody into a relationship, into marriage, they're in a much better -- much more stable footing. You know, they're going to be able to achieve the things that they want together.
And so you know, I mean we see so many ads about spending thousands of dollars on diamonds and it's so easy to get hooked into that. But I think in the long run you've got to really wonder, you know, what does that say about somebody who wants that from somebody else? And maybe about you when you're spending that kind of money, because that's a lot of money.
ARENA: It sure is. Jeff, Jennifer, stay with us. And you stay with us, too. We'll take more of your calls and e-mails.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ARENA: Welcome back to "Dollar Signs." According to the vows, marriage is for richer or poorer, but it's amazing how many couples don't get a clear view of each other's spending habits before they wed. Jeff Opdyke and Jennifer Openshaw are taking your calls and e- mails so you can resolve the financial issues that trouble many marriages.
We've got Patricia on the phone from Louisiana. Patricia, go ahead.
CALLER: My question is, I'm getting married in August, and I own the home, both cars, and a $25,000 savings account, and my fiance is recovering from extremely bad credit. Should I get a prenup or be more interested in adding his name to my assets to help him out?
ARENA: Jennifer?
OPENSHAW: I would be very -- first of all, congratulations. I hope that you are getting in money sync as you're entering this new relationship, because it is time for a fresh start. But I would be concerned about somebody's behavior, because it can certainly impact your credit.
I mean, just to give you an idea, if the two of you take out a credit card or buy a home together, let's say your next home, and maybe you expect that he's paying the bills, but, indeed, he's not, or he encounters some problems, that's going to have an impact on your credit and that credit is used for so many things, including even getting a job.
I think you might want to think about a prenup. It really depends on, you know, how you feel about the relationship. And Jeff would probably be in an even better position to talk about that. You know, do you want to really share those things that you're bringing into the relationship?
And the most important thing is to think about, unfortunately, the worst case scenario, what happens if you split up three or five years down the road? Are you going to feel frustrated that you did that? or would you feel better being able to take those assets on with you?
OPDYKE: I agree with Jennifer. If you are going into this marriage and you don't mind losing, I mean it's taking a risk and you lose part of it, then you know, don't worry about the prenup. Louisiana as I recall is a 50/50 state. But if you do have concerns that these are your assets and if something were to happen to this marriage and you want to preserve the assets that you have prior to the marriage, then you and your fiance should maybe make a list together of all the financial issues you have. All the financial concerns and worries and dreams and wants you both have together and include on there your dreams, or your wants of protecting these particular assets and you can start of approach talking about a prenup in that way. That way you don't have this big glaring light shining on the prord prenup which is going to scare people off because we offer up defenses when we hear that word. So, you wrap it in a context of a list of all of your financial issues, it may be a little easier to address it with your fiance that way.
ARENA: All right. We have a word of advice from Mike and Donna Stevens on the Internet who say, "Our first house cost $69,000 to save for it. We each carried a small notepad and wrote down every paper, pop, gas, candy bar, coffee expenditure we made for a year. The challenge was, who could spend the least each month." Jennifer, is this a good idea to write it all down in some situations?
OPENSHAW: I think in some situations. I have to admit, I think it's a little tedious for a lot of people and that's why we created a software CD that makes it a little easier, I think a lot easier, actually, with the budget the "quick and Easy Budget Kit." But I think that's so great that they took the time to do that, because let's face it, buying a home today for young couples is so difficult.
And just to touch on that issue for a moment. I mean, down payments with prices skyrocketing, some of the things that I'm seeing are it's become a little bit more of a family affair where even the parents are coming in, or the grandparents, a great way for the grandparents to gift some money to their grandchildren who are maybe getting married and buying their first home.
ARENA: Jeff, we've got a call from Joe in California for you. Joe, go ahead.
CALLER: I'd like to get some advice. I've been married over 42 years, I have the greatest wife in the world. Our main deal is we worked as a team, whether we bought anything, spend anything, I spent 50 or she spent, we worked as a team, and we each got the same amount. We never fought over money. And I was -- had a marriage in heaven.
She's in heaven right now. But, I wish everybody would remember you're a team. Nobody's a boss. You work as a team. That's my advice for everybody. And I think you're doing a good job.
OPDYKE: That's perfect advice. That's the whole point of my book, and that's the whole point of the Sunday column I write on love and money is that at some point you really do have to work as a team. And you're in this life together. And it's not my finances and your finances, it's our finances. It's our money. And we have to decide together how to spend this and save it.
ARENA: You know, that's a great note to end on on this valentine's day. Thank you both for joining us. That is all the time that we have for now. But stay with CNN.
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