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CNN Live Saturday

President Bush Holds First Major Campaign Rally In Orlando, Florida; Tracking The Hunt For Ayman al-Zawahiri; Antiwar Rally Commemorates One-Year Anniversary Of Iraq War.

Aired March 20, 2004 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


ADORA UDOJI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I am Adora Udoji in New York City at the site of an anti-war rally to mark the one-year anniversary of the US war against Iraq. Tens of thousands of people have come out today. We'll have that story coming up.
KATHLEEN KOCH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I'm Kathleen Koch in Orlando, Florida where President Bush in his first major campaign rally defended his policy in Iraq and fired sharp new criticism at his opponent John Kerry.

FREDRICK WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: And tracking a suspected terrorist near the Afghan border. The hunt for Osama bin Laden's right-hand man. I'm Fredricka Whitfield at the CNN global headquarters in Atlanta. Here's a look at the headlines first.

Despite winning reelection by a narrow margin, Taiwan's president Chen Shui-Bian may still face a legal fight. His challenger calls the election unfair citing yesterday's assassination attempt the president. Mr. Chen was grazed by a bullet in the final day of campaign. His challenger says the shooting may have been a ploy to attract sympathy votes for the incumbent.

With about 2,000 NATO troops on patrol, the situation in Kosovo is tense but calm after three days of ethnic violence. Clashes between Serbs and ethnic Albanians have killed at least 28 people and injured at least 600 others.

The United Nations Secretary General Kofi Annan is pushing for an investigation into Iraq's oil for food program. The independent probe would focus on allegations of fraud and corruption involving both Saddam Hussein's government and the U.N. An internal probe is trying to determine whether any U.N. workers profited from the arrangement.

It's nowhere near the intensity of past anti-war protests in this country, but New Yorkers are taking to the streets today marking the first anniversary of the war in Iraq. They're joined by thousands of protesters in other cities around the world. We get the latest now from New York with CNN's Adora Udoji -- Adora.

UDOJI: Hello, Fredericka. Indeed, we are talking about tens of thousands of people. We are actually standing at Madison Square Park where marches began over an hour ago. As you can see, we are still not to the end of the list. This has all been organized by a group called United for Peace and Justice made up of 700 activist groups, fascinating cross section we have seen today of blacks and white people, Hispanic, Asians, people of all ages. They are coming from labor unions, students and religious groups as well as local politicians. And also we saw Democratic presidential candidate and current U.S. representative Dennis Kucinich. He spoke earlier today.

It began with a rally. We listened to roughly two dozen speakers talking. And, essentially, people who have come today say they have come to protest the war, to demand for an end. We are seeing signs -- many signs asking for the end of what they are calling an occupation for the U.S. to bring troops home. After the rally, they began marching. The combination of the rally and the march was really the end of negotiations that went on between the NYPD and organizers all week. Among the many who came to protest today are military families who are opposed to the war. All told, thousands of people traveled from all over the region to come to New York today and here's why.

We apparently were going to hear from some folks but we will get to that later. The day was organized by a group called United for Peace and Justice. They say that there will be over 267 rallies all over the country. Most notably in North Carolina, Fayette, North Carolina at the home of Fort Bragg, Camp LeJeune Army and Marine bases which have thousands of troops deployed overseas at this time. Secondly, notably in Crawford, Texas, the home of President Bush. They say it's important to send a message to him loud and clear that there are many voters not happy with the U.S. Iraq policy -- Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: Adora, I also understand taking to the mike there were some family members of some 9/11 victims, correct?

UDOJI: Indeed. There were some representatives of a group that represents 9/11, the victims. The family members of 9/11 victims. Indeed, they did come to speak, many saying that they believe that this war is unnecessary. That more bloodshed at this point is not the way towards peace. We heard lots of people talking about how our priorities, the United states, government priorities are not the way that they believe they should be, which is exactly why they came today.

WHITFIELD: Adora Udoji, thanks very much for that report from Manhattan.

Around the globe now thousands of protesters are demanding the departure of the U.S. from Iraq. As the day began protesters took to the streets in Asia including Japan, South Korea, India and Thailand. In London, thousands there marched. Some carried signs calling President Bush, quote, "the world's number one terrorist." More demonstrations were held in Rome and also in parts of Germany and Greece, the Netherlands and other countries in Europe. Back in this country, President Bush is confronting his critics on the war with a political rally of his own in central Florida. The state that helped put him in the White House nearly four years ago. Kathleen Koch has been traveling with the president. And when we get a chance to talk with her we will get the latest on his efforts.

Now a fierce battle in the war on terror is being waged this weekend in Pakistan. Pakistani troops are trying to capture or kill a group of suspected al Qaeda fighters holed up in a remote region near the Afghan border. And it is still not clear whether the terror group's second in command Ayman al-Zawahiri, is in the area. The latest from now from CNN's Ash-Har Quraishi in Islamabad.

ASH-HAR QURAISHI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It was the fifth day of fierce battle and violent clashes between Pakistani military forces and hundreds of suspect al-Qaeda fighters and tribesman helping them in the area known as south Waziristan in Pakistan's northwest, in the tribal areas there along the border with Afghanistan. Early on Saturday, military officials say at least three pick-up trucks tried to break a cordon that the military has been holding for days now. They say that those vehicles came under attack by Pakistani military helicopter gun ships killing all 12 passengers inside, believed to be suspected fighters. The military says it has made some progress in these operations.

They say they have been able to clear some eight compounds and they have captured around 100 suspected al-Qaeda fighters and those tribesman. They say these operations are ongoing. They are continuing. They have been pounding this area with heavy gunfire, artillery, as well as using those Cobra helicopters to soften the target in the center of this compound. They say they have been able to clear eight of them, as I mentioned. They say this is an ongoing effort. And that it is unclear how long the operation will last.

Now, also they say they have received some radio intercepts that indicated the possibility that a high ranking Uzbek or Chechen militant leader may have been one of these high value targets inside. They will not go into detail publicly about the existence of Ayman al- Zawahiri amidst the fighters, but they say they cannot rule it out right now. Intelligence sources telling CNN all this week that they believe Ayman al-Zawahiri, Usama bin Laden's number two, was being protected by these hundreds of suspected al-Qaeda fighters. But, again, they say the assessment on the ground cannot be made until the firing stops and until they are able to go into the area where they have been facing stiff resistance for days now. Ash-Har Qraishi, CNN, Islamabad.

WHITFIELD: The war on terror was one of the issues that President Bush addressed while campaigning in Florida. He also took the opportunity to start a campaign of helping to define his leading Democratic contender John Kerry. Our Kathleen Koch is traveling with the president with more -- Kathleen.

KOCH: As you mentioned earlier, when you were talking about the protests around the country there were a few protesters here in Orlando, Florida. Some of them protesting the president's policies in Iraq. Some of them protesting his economic policies. The president, in his first major campaign rally that was not a fundraising event, staunchly defended both. First on the war in Iraq, the president said the U.S.-led invasion ended one of the, quote, "most violent and dangerous regimes on earth." On the economy, the president insisted the jobs were being created gradually. The economy was strong and getting stronger. The president, though, as you said, spent most of his speech attacking his opponent, John Kerry, defining him, negatively, obviously. He criticized John Kerry for, among other things, voting against tax cuts and for proposing new federal programs that the president said John Kerry had not talked about how he would pay for those programs.

Now, just a few minutes ago we got a response from the Kerry campaign. I'll read that to you now. John Kerry's campaign responded saying, "These guys have dug themselves an enormous hole when it comes to credibility with the American people. "The Kerry campaign insisting that the economy is in "shambles," and that under the Bush administration it lost some 3 million jobs. Now the president, to say this was an enthusiastic crowd here, is an understatement. As he left the event, we have been hoping to bring you part of that event, part of what he said but we are having a little technical problem with that. As he left the event, the president shook hands with some of the 12,000-plus very happy supporters who were here during his speech. He was interrupted numerous times by chants of four more years, USA.

But Democrats here say that the president's policies that he defended in this speech have not done well for Florida. The state losing some 70,000 manufacturing jobs during the Bush presidency. Back to you, Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: Kathleen, let me ask you about the strategy upcoming. John Kerry, it's his plan to be in 20 cities over the next few weeks to try to raise money. President Bush does not really need money at this point. They already have something like 160 million. Instead, his tour across the country will really be focusing on campaigning efforts and recruiting support, right?

KOCH: Indeed. We saw an example of that here in Orlando. The Bush-Cheney campaign got on the ground here some four or five months ago. In that period of time, they have rallied some 2,000 new volunteers, registered some 600 new voters. They say they have even convinced a lot of voters to switch from Democrat to Republican. They say this is the sort of strategy they will follow around the country, getting on the ground before Bush-Cheney campaign event, really rallying the troops. After this event today, some 1,000 volunteers went out to man phone banks, to knock on doors. Again, trying to reach out. They set a goal of reaching some 38,000 Floridians by the end of the day. So very organized and pushing very strong.

WHITFIELD: All right. Kathleen Koch, traveling with the president as he was campaigning today in Orlando, Florida, thank you.

Well, despite the devastation, the plan for a new Iraq moves forward. We'll find out what can be done about the insurgent forces trying to slow the handover process in Iraq.

Also, fans of shock jock Howard stern make a bold stand for freedom of speech. That story straight ahead.

And a town in vocal turmoil after the commissioner proposes banning gays from the community. We've got that incredible story straight ahead.

WHITFIELD: Baghdad is blanketed by U.S. military patrols on this first anniversary of the start of the war. U.S. helicopters patrolled the skies in a security clampdown after a series of anti-coalition attacks this week. U.S. tanks patrol on the ground. All this while Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein remains in coalition custody after his capture last December. The U.S. has found no weapons of mass destruction, the original pretext for the war and the U.S. troop death toll now in Iraq stands at 570.

Well, some military experts are seeing a disturbing pattern in the latest series of attacks in Iraq. They say civilian targets like the Mount Lebanon Hotel in Baghdad are being favored more and more. Also, Iraqi insurgents appear to be getting some outside help. Military analyst David Isby provides someof his expertise for us from Washington. David, good to see you.

DAVID ISBY, MILITARY ANALYST: Good afternoon.

WHITFIELD: Well, first, let's tackle the issue of these attacks involving these hotels -- just kind of one, two, three, one after the other in Baghdad and Basra. The psychology had been that these hotels were targeted because they are frequented by Westerners. Does that seem plausible to you?

ISBY: Well, mainly they are there because they are soft targets. They don't have high security. And in recent months, we have seen the dependency of terrorist groups not just in Iraq, but al-Qaeda, and Turkey, and Tunisia, even in groups in central Asia, in Krygystan, Uzbekistan to target, quote, "soft targets," where there is not much security, just to show they're still in the game and able to kill people.

WHITFIELD: And perhaps the intent as well to send a message that they are against any kind of sovereignty, the handover plan for June 30th and perhaps, if that is the case does it seem like the violence may pick up if and when that handover were to take place?

ISBY: They really don't have a political plan, so instead they are sending a message, saying that this is an illegitimate regime the Americans have put in place because they cannot keep Iraqis safe. Which went along with this is the murder of Iraqis who have been working with the interim government, policemen and others often singled out for ambush killing bombs. So they are trying to show this government is illegitimate because it cannot provide security.

WHITFIELD: There are still the claims of hundreds, claims of hundreds of artillery that are still unclaimed. Is it believed that some of these attacks are using that kind of artillery, stolen artillery? Or is a lot of this weaponry coming from outside the borders?

ISBY: Most are still there. There's still vast amounts of hardware leftover from Saddam Hussein's military. Previously, a lot of this went into making the improvised explosive devices that killed so many American troops. Now in the future we may see things like 1- to 2-millimeter rockets being used for standoff attacks as security gets better. These can be fired without a crew manning them with a timing device. That may come in the future.

WHITFIELD: The number of Iraqis being killed or maimed in these attacks is the message that is being sent intimidation?

ISBY: Intimidation is part of it. Lack of -- lack of legitimacy is part of it. And also, it's the way these terrorists show they are still in the game. Indeed, that's why we -- you saw Madrid and there's great fear that al-Qaeda, other groups will strike in the United States in the next few months, even if it hurts their infrastructure, this to show they are not being beaten.

WHITFIELD: Secretary Powell, his surprise visit to Baghdad said, yesterday, quote, "The war has helped establish freedoms for Iraqis of the kind they never enjoyed before." Do the Iraqis buy that?

ISBY: In the end, they heard a lot of rhetoric. It will have to be results. A lot of Iraqis see their lives better now than it was a year ago under the Saddam Hussein regime. But you are going to have to prove this every day. And more to the point their neighbors may see it that people living under repressive regimes that life is better under the new order.

WHITFIELD: CNN military analyst, David Isby, thanks very much for joining us.

ISBY: Thank you.

WHITFIELD: Well, the U.S. wants to know if some Iraqi prisoners have been abused at the hands of some U.S. troops. Six soldiers have been suspended from duty while officials investigate. Barbara Starr is following that story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BARBARA STARR, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Six U.S. military personnel are now facing criminal charges for alleged abuse of Iraqi prisoners at Abu Gharib prison in Baghdad, what was once a notorious torture facility under Saddam Hussein. The charges include conspiracy, dereliction of duty, cruelty and maltreatment, assault and indecent acts. Some 20 Iraqi prisoners are said to have been subjected to the abuse.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Even though it was a very small number of detainees involved, that's a kind of cancer you have to cut out quickly. And if there's a problem, you need to address it very, very rapidly.

STARR: Seventeen U.S. personnel were relieved of duty weeks ago, after General Ricardo Sanchez, head of coalition forces, personally ordered the investigation. Military sources tell CNN it is alleged that the soldiers took pictures of Iraqis in detention. Sources say they are told the pictures show Iraqis partially clothed and the soldiers posing next to prisoners.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The Geneva Convention, which is our guideline for that, specifically prohibits making detainees, making prisoners of war subject to public curiosity and humiliation. And so that's why we feel it's important that we follow the procedures and allow the ICRC in for routine investigation -- routine inspections, health, welfare, to assure we are doing everything in accordance with the Geneva Conventions.

STARR: CNN has learned that nine additional military personnel and two civilian employees are also facing severe administrative reprimands that could effectively end their careers.

(on camera): A battalion commander, a company commander and the U.S. military commander of the prison certainly now facing questions, military sources say, about their fitness for command. Barbara Starr, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WHITFIELD: Profiting from the war? Straight ahead, the story of U.S. soldiers trying to turn a buck from items seized from Iraq. And bowing out. Prop princess Britney Spears on the sidelines. Much to the chagrin of her fans. We'll find out why.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: What were once palace treasures in Iraq are now potential trophies for your palace. They are items up for bid on the Internet. Gary Tuchman shows us how American collectors are trying to win some of Saddam Hussein's stolen prized possessions.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GARY TUCHMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Troops have always brought back souvenirs from war but they have not always had eBay.

(on camera): How much do you want for the Koran?

BRIAN KRAEMER, FMR. ARMY MILITARY POLICEMAN: There is a starting bid of $150.

TUCHMAN (voice-over): Brian Kraemer was an army military policeman during the Iraq War. The Pennsylvania resident took this Koran from one of Saddam Hussein's palaces and put it on eBay.

KRAEMER: They said as long as it wasn't a gun, ammunition or explosives you are allowed to bring anything else back.

TUCHMAN: The 24-year-old retired veteran says he also received permission from his commanders to take Iraqi handcuffs, an Iraqi police pin and a bayonet, which he also wants to auction.

(on camera): So you detained the soldier and you took the bayonet and brought it home with you?

KRAEMER: Yes.

TUCHMAN (voice-over): Other items on Ebay include a palace rug, bidding went over $1,100, and silverware, which sold for $71. U.S. Central Command told CNN taking or retaining individual souvenirs or trophies are prohibited. But added it does not preclude the lawful acquisition of souvenirs that can legally be imported. Specialist Kraemer believes it was lawful if the superiors gave their okay. KRAEMER: Is it morally wrong? Maybe. But to me, I have no guilty conscious over this one.

TUCHMAN (on camera): And what does eBay think of all this? The Internet auction site says because of U.S. government laws, items from Iraq are not allowed to be auctioned. So if it's seen on the site it will be pulled off.

(voice-over): Hours after we met with Kraemer with his Koran price climbing close to $700, eBay did see it and now it's been pulled off. Gary Tuchman, CNN, Uniontown, Pennsylvania.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WHITFIELD: In other news, across America now, in Washington state, a jury of pastors resumed deliberations in the church trial of a gay Methodist pastor. Reverend Karen Dammann is charged with practices incompatible with teachings of the United Methodist Church. She could lose her ministry.

The suspect in that string of Ohio highway shootings is on his way back to Ohio today. Charles McCoy Jr. waived extradition in a court hearing yesterday in Las Vegas. McCoy will go before an Ohio judge on Monday.

Stern support from fans of shock jock Howard Stern, they held a rally in Westwood, California to protest his recent Federal indecency fine of more than $27,000.

And oops, Britney Spears -- she has hurt herself. The pop star suffered a knee injury during this stop on her concert tour. She had to cancel a performance last night in suburban Chicago. There is still no word on whether she will make up that date.

More attacks on the Democratic front-runner, tough talks from President Bush on John Kerry, we have the latest from the campaign trial.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is just plain stupid. I think JC Fugate owes all of Ray County an apology.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: Neighbors in an uproar in Tennessee after a county commissioner wants gays booted out. The story when CNN LIVE SATURDAY returns.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: Here are the headlines at the half hour. From Sydney to Seattle, from Chicago to Cairo, thousands are protesting the first anniversary of the war in Iraq. The demonstrators are calling for the removal of American and other troops from the country. In most cities, police are out in force to help keep the peace. In the war zone, the U.S. military confirms the death of an American Marine in an attack yesterday. Officials say the Marine died in security and stability operations in Iraq, al Ansar province.

And a fierce fight continues in the mountainous border region of Western Pakistan. Troops are trying to flush out suspected militants. Pakistani officials say soldiers have arrested 100 suspects, possibly al-Qaeda members. The army is denying reports that it had attacked civilians in the region earlier in the day.

In the U.S., we are told two men are sharing a $500,000 reward in the D.C.-sniper case -- Robert Holmes of Tacoma, Washington and Whitney Donahue of Green Castle, Pennsylvania. Holmes tipped police that his friend, John Alan Muhammad, might be the shooter. Donahue spotted the suspect's car at the central Maryland rest area where the two were arrested.

John Kerry is taking a break from the campaign trail but not on the ski slopes. The leading Democratic presidential candidate went snowboarding for a second day in Idaho. He is vacationing in Ketchum with his wife all under the watchful eye of the secret service. Kerry returns to political life next week to attend a Democratic fundraiser in Washington.

While John Kerry is on R&R, the Democrats are taking up the attack on President Bush and his economic policy. Michigan Governor Jennifer Granholm spoke about the loss of jobs in this weekly radio address.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JENNIFER GRANHOLM, GOVERNOR OF MICHIGAN: President Bush promised that his tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans would create over 4 million jobs. In fact, he lost 3 million. Just this week, we learned his administration actively hid the cost of his Medicare Plan from Congress and the American people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: From the economy to military proficiency to international affairs, both presidential candidates are criticizing the other. President Bush and John Kerry are unleashing their political attack ads. Is the campaign turning nasty much earlier than usual? Let's ask our guest, Robert Zimmerman. He is a Democratic strategist. And Tara Setmayer is a Republican strategist. Good to see both of you.

ROBERT ZIMMERMAN, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Good to be with you. First day of spring.

WHITFIELD: Yes, no kidding, I am so glad it is here. Happy first day of spring. Well, Tara, I will begin with you, ladies first. The Bush-Cheney campaign is already saying it's on the offensive trying to define John Kerry and trying to define him as being inconsistent. Why not just accentuate the positive in terms of the Bush-Cheney issues already at hand?

TARA SETMAYER, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Well, that's exactly what they're doing. It's a balance. President Bush demonstrated his ability to connect with the American people today at his campaign rally in Orlando. He is to the point, he has tested it, proven leadership. And he is accentuating the positives, as well as allowing the American people to see the flip-flop positions that Senator Kerry has taken. We really do not know where Senator Kerry stands on major issues. And we do know where President Bush is. He is unwavering, and that is a clear choice and a clear difference. And that's the approach we are taking.

ZIMMERMAN: Clearly, he is unwavering, and that's why when every poll shows that 54 percent or 55 percent of the American people believe our country is moving in the wrong direction, they do want change. That's what John Kerry represents. And there's a reason that George Bush and Dick Cheney are focusing their campaign at an unprecedented early stage in his personal attacks on John Kerry.

WHITFIELD: What do you believe the reason is, Robert?

ZIMMERMAN: The reason very simply is because George Bush and Dick Cheney can't run on a record of losing 3 million jobs, can't run on a record of a record number of Americans without health insurance. Can't run on the fact that we are facing a manufacturing depression in this country. Even creating such deficits that Alan Greenspan, who has been supporting the Bush economic program said the deficits are so severe that it might risk either raising taxes or, in fact, cutting social security services. But there's no record to run on.

SETMAYER: Well, the Bush record is also one of record low inflation, record low unemployment, over 94 percent of the American people do have jobs. 1.8 million jobs have been created. It depends on which indicator you want to use.

ZIMMERMAN: No, it does not. It depends on what the White House tells us.

SETMAYER: Excuse me, yes, it does. 1.8 million jobs have been created. Indicators that you are using do not exclude self-employed or -- and also there have been 112,000 jobs created last month. This administration does have a record that they can run on and they will run on that. They also have -- more Americans own their own homes. The Kerry campaign is running on ...

ZIMMERMAN: If I could make a point.

SETMAYER: ... on fear -- they are running on fear. They are running on anger and the Bush administration ...

WHITFIELD: Well, time out. Let me just jump in there for a second. If those are the issues that the Bush-Cheney White House wants to accentuate then why, Tara, do you suppose it is that that White House is spending so much time and money, if it's $160 million in its fundraising coffers on the ads that will be seen on the television sets, on the websites as well as radio to make the disparaging remarks about their number one contender?

SETMAYER: Well, because they -- right now, we are at a position in the campaign where we need to -- each candidate has to define themselves. Bush has taken attacks for the last three months without any type of response. I think that the administration they were a little slow in their response. So now, they need to define Kerry.

WHITFIELD: Robert, is John Kerry in a corner?

ZIMMERMAN: Fredricka, if I could point out, the Bush administration is not defining itself. What they are trying to do is distort John Kerry's record.

SETMAYER: There's no distortion.

ZIMMERMAN: And the reason John Kerry is running ahead in most polls or running even with the president, despite the president's enormous fiscal campaign funding advantages is because the American people want to talk about the issues today. They want an explanation from this administration as to why he has ignored his own intelligence reports regarding Iraq, why they concealed the numbers regarding the cost of the Medicare program, why they have a record number of Americans who do not have health insurance. The American people want answers from this administration and the response has been to dodge, to evade and to ultimately deceive.

WHITFIELD: And, Robert, let's talk about ...

SETMAYER: That is absolutely not true. There has been no deceiving. There has been no dodging. This president is very straight forward.

ZIMMERMAN: Let me point out ...

SETMAYER: Let me ask both of you real quick, if we can address the arsenal that both sides are using. Robert, John Kerry is using some heavy hitters such as former Secretary of State Madeleine Albright and even borrowing from some of the sentiments of some of his former contenders, Howard Dean, Wes Clark. How important is it for him to show that he has got support on all of these various levels?

ZIMMERMAN: I think what is more impressive, Fredricka, is the arsenal of the comments from Republicans and officials in the administration. When Senator John McCain says that John Kerry is strong on defense, that says a great deal. When former Bush Secretary of State Larry Eagleburger says we did not know what we were getting into when we got into Iraq, that says a great deal. When the acting secretary of the army says we underestimated the insurgency, that talks to the lack of planning and lack of proper intelligence research. When Alan Greenspan holds the administration accountable for record deficits, we see Republicans now and, in fact, even conservative groups like the Heritage Foundation stepping up and saying the Bush White House has increased spending to the highest level since 1944.

WHITFIELD: OK, Robert, running out of time. Let me have Tara respond to this. In Bush's corner, he has got his adviser, Karen Hughes, who is, once again, hitting the airwaves. Karl Rove, who is known as a chief political strategist. How pivotal are these players in the strategy of the Bush-Cheney campaign?

SETMAYER: Well, they are extremely important. They were the architects of his successful election in 2000. And was does say a lot about John Kerry is his record. And his record of voting against defense systems that are pivotal in this -- in our war on terrorism. The fact he is a tax and spend liberal. The most liberal of the Senate, more liberal than Ted Kennedy. These are things that are in his record, words that he has expressed. He wants to raise taxes, and he has 34 million American working families have received $1500 more in tax money.

ZIMMERMAN: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) an not deceive the public, Karen.

WHITFIELD: All right, we are out of time, but you know what you guys, we have eight months to talk some more about this before Election Day. I'm sure we will have you back.

SETMAYER: I can't wait.

WHITFIELD: OK, Karen Setmayer and Robert Zimmerman, thanks very much and see you again soon.

ZIMMERMAN: Thank you.

WHITFIELD: All right. The issue of gay rights and gay marriages continues to spur debate across America. But for one Tennessee county the debate is not over gay rights, it is over their right to live there, simply. CNN's Jason Bellini explains.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JASON BELLINI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It was a topic that pitted neighbor against neighbor -- kicking the gays out of Ray County. The commissioners who on Tuesday had voted unanimously that gays should be barred from their county, reconvened Thursday for an emergency meeting. That, after the county attorney informed the commissioners that the measure they passed was unconstitutional. The ruckus started Tuesday when the Commissioner JC Fugate introduced the motion telling the local newspaper he wanted gays, quote, "out of here."

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: everybody is entitled to freedom, and this is just plain stupidity. I think JC Fugate owes all of Ray County an apology.

BELLINI: All of this is taking place in the historic courthouse of the 1925 Scopes Monkey trial.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And in God.

BELLINI: As depicted in the movie, "Inherit the Wind," teacher John Scopes was tried and convicted for teaching evolution.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: God tells me to oppose the evil teachings of that man! God speaks to you?

BELLINI: Ray County resident June Griffin supports the move to ban gays.

JUNE GRIFFIN, RAY COUNTY RESIDENT: I think this is the greatest thing that's happened on behalf of Christian people in a long time.

BELLINI: At the courthouse, Griffin was vastly outnumbered by many who agreed with this gay student.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It is our right to live here and it is our right to be who we are.

BELLINI: The meeting was over in less than five minutes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Meeting adjourned.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you regret how you voted? Do you regret how you voted?

BELLINI: No debate, no comment from the commissioners. They unanimously reversed their Tuesday vote.

(on camera): After the emergency meeting was over, the county commissioners were ushered out of a back exit under police protection. None of the commissioners would return my phone calls. Local reporters here tell me that they, too, tried to reach them. They hung out on their doorsteps all day, and they couldn't get comments either.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why did you make the decision in the first place?

BELLINI: The commissioners decided on this night to keep their views on gays in the closet. Jason Bellini, CNN, Dayton, Tennessee.

WHITFIELD: The right-hand man of the world's largest terror network and troops are trying to find him. But who is Ayman al- Zawahiri? Up next, an inside look at the terror mastermind.

Also, the prosecution rests in the case of Jayson Williams. Now defense attorneys are getting ready to highlight their case. We will examine the strategy in our legal roundtable.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: Back now to Pakistan's hunt for al-Qaeda members. Pakistani troops today are keeping up their battle with suspected members of the terror group. And it's still not clear whether al Qaeda's second in command, Ayman al-Zawahiri, is in the area where Pakistani troops are conducting their operation. CNN's Jonathan Mann gives us a closer look at al-Zawahiri and his role in al-Qaeda.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JONATHAN MANN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Ayman al-Zawahiri made his public debut as a Muslim militant more than 20 years ago. AYMAN AL-ZAWAHIRI: We want to see to the whole world.

MANN: Back then, al-Zawahiri, a young doctor, was imprisoned for his involvement with the assassination of Egyptian President Anwar Sadat. After his release, al-Zawahiri made his way to Pakistan and Afghanistan where he worked as a doctor treating Islamic fighters who were trying to overthrow the Soviet regime in Afghanistan. This is when he met Usama bin Laden and found a common cause.

(GUNFIRE)

MANN: Years later, the two men would shift their holy war from the Soviets to the Americans and go public with their terror alliance. The attacks against America began weeks later with suicide bombings of two U.S. embassies. Then there was the attack on the "USS Cole" in 2000 and the 9/11 attacks. Al-Zawahiri often appeared by bin Laden's side. A clear indication of his status as bin Laden's number two and closest advisor. And after 9/11, al-Zawahiri started making his own audiotapes warning of more attacks on America and its allies.

Ayman al-Zawahiri has been plotting revolution and terror since the age of 16. Now, at the age of 52, his time may have run out. Jonathan Mann, CNN.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WHITFIELD: And this programming note, CNN's "PEOPLE ON THE NEWS" take an in-depth look at Ayman al-Zawahiri and Usama bin Laden. That's coming up today at 5:00 Eastern time.

In other news around the world, the investigation into last week's bombing attacks in Madrid grinds on. Spanish authorities yesterday charged five suspects in connection with the bombings. An Algerian man held in connection to the attacks was later released.

In Gaza, Palestinian sources say a 7-year-old girl died of her injuries following an incident Friday night with the Israeli army. The Israeli sources say they fired warning shots toward approaching Palestinian youths, and the sources say they know nothing of the girl's death and say they are investigating that incident.

US Secretary of State Colin Powell wrapped up a six-day tour of Asia and the Middle East with a stop in Kuwait. He announced the U.S. was looking into reports Saddam Hussein diverted money from a U.N. oil for food program for Iraq.

You can make more of your money and make it grow and be in better shape to retire early all without winning the lottery or even asking your boss for a raise. How? Watch CNN "DOLLAR SIGNS" at 4:30 Eastern today when noted author David Bach joins me to give you tips on the simple steps to increase your wealth. You can e-mail your questions to him. The address is dollarsigns@cnn.com. We will also be taking your phone calls. That toll free number is 1-800-807-2620. The lines are open at 4:30 p.m. Eastern today.

Coming up next this Saturday, a deeper look into the Tyco trial and other high-profile cases in our legal roundtable.

And what were they thinking? Virgin Airlines feels the heat after a proposal for an upper class clubhouse.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: As the buzz over the Martha Stewart case dissipates, it is being replaced about talk about another trial -- the Tyco trial, also in New York, a corporate corruption case involving two former executives is now in the jury's hands. The question is, could the Stewart case influence the Tyco verdict? We pose that question to a pair of our legal experts as we look at today's legal brief. Avery Friedman in Cleveland, Ohio and Richard Herman in Fort Lauderdale, Florida. Good to see both of you.

RICHARD HERMAN, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: How are you, Fredricka?

WHITFIELD: I'm doing great.

AVERY FRIEDMAN, CIVIL RIGHTS ATTORNEY: Hi Fredricka, ready to go.

WHITFIELD: All right, well, here we go. Right off the case. Let's talk about the Jayson Williams case. And Richard, the defense argued or tried to argue that the weapon malfunctioned. Is this an indication of the strategy of the defense when they get the case on Wednesday?

HERMAN: It's a strategy but it is a losing strategy. Look, the case of Williams' case is over. The Jayson Williams case is over. The prosecution case was devastating to him. What they have to do on defense is this -- they have to key in and try to get a conviction on the lesser included charge. That's it. Jayson Williams will have to testify in this case. If he does not testify, he will get -- if you think the Martha Stewart verdict was quick, this jury is going to stand up from the box and say guilty right from the box.

WHITFIELD: Avery, do we need to hear from Jayson Williams on this case?

FRIEDMAN: I thought at the beginning of the trial that we would see Richard in a blond wig in a dress before we would ever see Jayson Williams testify. And I have to rethink that. I think he has got to testify because of the overwhelming evidence. The difficulty he is facing, 55 years. And Billy Martin, his defense lawyer really does not have a choice. He is going to walk into a real thicket, but he is stopped. There is nothing he can do about it.

WHITFIELD: Well, right out the gate and we have you guys in agreement. All right, well, let me ask you ...

HERMAN: I'm not sure I agree.

WHITFIELD: OK. Let me ask you this -- the defense was described as being rather sarcastic when it cross examined the weapons expert. That's certainly something that could backfire, couldn't it in the face of the jury?

HERMAN: Absolutely, it is going to backfire. In addition to that, it looks like that the gun, the wood chip they found was caused by the defense expert's examining the gun, the gun that had not been there at the time Williams used the gun. This whole defense with the gun it is over. The guy was drunk, he went to the box, he pulled the gun out, he cocked it, he pointed it right at this guy, Gus, and shot him direct.

FRIEDMAN: Well, there's another part of it. The other part of it is that the jury already knows that he gave an interview to Barbara Walters, and Billy Martin in his opening statement promised that they would hear from Jayson. So, this week will determine his guilt or innocence. This is a big week for Jayson Williams.

HERMAN: He will never be acquitted, Fredricka. He will get convicted, or one juror, again, like I said before, one juror might feel an affinity to Jason and hold out for a hung jury.

WHITFIELD: OK, all right. Well, let's move on to the Tyco trial. Jurors are in their second day of deliberation -- or they wrapped up their second day of deliberations. They will go back on Wednesday. Did the Martha Stewart case, Avery, kind of set the tone for, you know, any kind of corporate crime case now a days?

FRIEDMAN: Martha Stewart is not going to help anyone, especially Dennis Kozlowski and Mark Schwartz. The difficulty here is that they have to justify what has happened. The prosecution has put on evidence of criminal intent, and you know what? The jury asked for the prosecution's charge of 68 separate acts of criminality. And that's the problem they will face. The judge instructed them on inferences of criminal intent. Both of these guys are in a world of trouble.

WHITFIELD: Richard.

HERMAN: The jury also asked the judge to define for them what criminal intent was. And the judge said to them he directed them, if in your deliberations you determine that Kozlowski and Swartz thought they had corporate authorization for what they did, you must acquit them. That's a very powerful direct charge by this judge. This company, this company employs 270,000 people. They do $36 billion in annual revenue. And during the last eight years under Kozlowski's rein, the company annual revenue has gone up tenfold. And he had bonus structures in his contract. Everyone knows that's where the big bucks are made on bonuses. How he spent the money is irrelevant what he spent it on.

WHITFIELD: And the big defense is he said, Kozlowski says that the board knew exactly all the details about the compensation package.

FRIEDMAN: Even though six directors ...

WHITFIELD: Real quick. We are running out of time ...

HERMAN; Even though six directors said that they didn't. WHITFIELD: OK, let's talk about the Justice Scalia case, the Supreme Court justice. He says, you know what, his predecessors have had a relationship with higher ups from the White House. And his relationship with Dick Cheney is no different and so he should not recuse himself from the case. Avery, let me let you jump in on that first.

FRIEDMAN: Well, from a constitutional perspective, Fredricka, this is terrible. The rule says any justice shall, that's mandatory, excuse himself from a case where impartiality may be questioned. There's impartiality all over the place. There are more holes in judicial ethics as a result of his decision than the ducks he was shooting out down in Louisiana. This is shameful. This is terrible.

WHITFIELD: All right, Richard ...

HERMAN: It is the appearance of impropriety. And if you hired me to sue Avery and right before the trial I told you Avery was partying with the judge, how would you feel, Fredricka? Especially knowing how much he parties.

WHITFIELD: And, apparently, doesn't this decision stand unchallenged, doesn't' it?

FRIEDMAN: There's nothing you can do about it.

WHITFIELD: Nothing you can do. All right.

FRIEDMAN: The rule of the Supreme Court is that each justice decides on whether or not to recuse himself or herself.

WHITFIELD: All right. Anthony Scalia gets the last word.

FRIEDMAN: That's right.

WHITFIELD: Richard Herman and Avery Friedman, thank you very much.

FRIEDMAN: Thanks Fredricka. Nice to see you.

WHITFIELD: See you next week maybe.

All right, a controversial potty lands Virgin Airlines in hot water. Coming up next, details on the proposal that sent women's groups into a frenzy.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: We end with an uproar over a men's urinal. Some women expressed outrage over the proposed design. Gene Most tells us how they finally found relief.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JEANNE MOOS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: If you think ordinary urinals are yucky, imagine one that had some women fleeing. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, my God.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, my God.

MOST: It's called the kisses urinal and Virgin Atlantic had to kiss it good-bye after a storm of criticism.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Degrading and humiliating.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What were they thinking.

MOOS: What they say they were thinking was how perky and fun it would be to have the artsy urinals in the men's room at Virgin's JFK clubhouse.

(on camera): Offensive or funny?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Both.

MOOS: Virgin's clubhouse for upper class flyers features everything from a waterfall to computers. Plans to install the kisses urinals are what caused mouths to drop.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That's awful!

MOOS: The urinal is the work of a female designer from the Netherlands.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The first response from all the guys is like, oh, my God, it has teeth. Then they say, it doesn't glow, does it?

MOOS: Meike van Schijndel company Bathroom Mania produces everything from a flower pot toilet to a hammock bath. She has had over 2,000 inquiries about buying the $600 urinal.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Basically, it's guys relieving themselves in a woman's mouth.

MEIKE VAN SCHIJNDEL, BATHROOM MANIA: It didn't even cross my mind when I was making it.

MOOS: The artist says she just thought the design was sexy.

(on camera): Would you feel comfortable using this urinal?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When you got to go, you got to go.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: With a smile on my face.

MOOS: But the smile was wiped off Virgin's face when the National Organization for Women scheduled a protest. In the middle of it, word came down that Virgin had backed out.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Isn't that terrific. Somebody has come to their senses. MOOS: Virgin says the level of public concern was the kiss of death for the urinal. Critics had a proposal for Virgin officials like CEO Richard Branson.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: With their own face being on these urinals. I think that is what they should do.

MOOS: It doesn't pay to be potty mouth. Jeanne Moos, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WHITFIELD: Well, so much more to come on "CNN SATURDAY" straight ahead. Next on CNN, what if an asteroid is on a collision course with earth. What can be done to stop it?

At 4 Eastern, CNN LIVE SATURDAY in "DOLLAR SIGNS" saving money to retire early. "PEOPLE IN THE NEWS" is right after that. Today, profiling al Qaeda's top leadership Ayman al-Zawahiri and Usama bin Laden. But first, here are the top stories.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com





Orlando, Florida; Tracking The Hunt For Ayman al-Zawahiri; Antiwar Rally Commemorates One-Year Anniversary Of Iraq War.>


Aired March 20, 2004 - 14:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ADORA UDOJI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I am Adora Udoji in New York City at the site of an anti-war rally to mark the one-year anniversary of the US war against Iraq. Tens of thousands of people have come out today. We'll have that story coming up.
KATHLEEN KOCH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I'm Kathleen Koch in Orlando, Florida where President Bush in his first major campaign rally defended his policy in Iraq and fired sharp new criticism at his opponent John Kerry.

FREDRICK WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: And tracking a suspected terrorist near the Afghan border. The hunt for Osama bin Laden's right-hand man. I'm Fredricka Whitfield at the CNN global headquarters in Atlanta. Here's a look at the headlines first.

Despite winning reelection by a narrow margin, Taiwan's president Chen Shui-Bian may still face a legal fight. His challenger calls the election unfair citing yesterday's assassination attempt the president. Mr. Chen was grazed by a bullet in the final day of campaign. His challenger says the shooting may have been a ploy to attract sympathy votes for the incumbent.

With about 2,000 NATO troops on patrol, the situation in Kosovo is tense but calm after three days of ethnic violence. Clashes between Serbs and ethnic Albanians have killed at least 28 people and injured at least 600 others.

The United Nations Secretary General Kofi Annan is pushing for an investigation into Iraq's oil for food program. The independent probe would focus on allegations of fraud and corruption involving both Saddam Hussein's government and the U.N. An internal probe is trying to determine whether any U.N. workers profited from the arrangement.

It's nowhere near the intensity of past anti-war protests in this country, but New Yorkers are taking to the streets today marking the first anniversary of the war in Iraq. They're joined by thousands of protesters in other cities around the world. We get the latest now from New York with CNN's Adora Udoji -- Adora.

UDOJI: Hello, Fredericka. Indeed, we are talking about tens of thousands of people. We are actually standing at Madison Square Park where marches began over an hour ago. As you can see, we are still not to the end of the list. This has all been organized by a group called United for Peace and Justice made up of 700 activist groups, fascinating cross section we have seen today of blacks and white people, Hispanic, Asians, people of all ages. They are coming from labor unions, students and religious groups as well as local politicians. And also we saw Democratic presidential candidate and current U.S. representative Dennis Kucinich. He spoke earlier today.

It began with a rally. We listened to roughly two dozen speakers talking. And, essentially, people who have come today say they have come to protest the war, to demand for an end. We are seeing signs -- many signs asking for the end of what they are calling an occupation for the U.S. to bring troops home. After the rally, they began marching. The combination of the rally and the march was really the end of negotiations that went on between the NYPD and organizers all week. Among the many who came to protest today are military families who are opposed to the war. All told, thousands of people traveled from all over the region to come to New York today and here's why.

We apparently were going to hear from some folks but we will get to that later. The day was organized by a group called United for Peace and Justice. They say that there will be over 267 rallies all over the country. Most notably in North Carolina, Fayette, North Carolina at the home of Fort Bragg, Camp LeJeune Army and Marine bases which have thousands of troops deployed overseas at this time. Secondly, notably in Crawford, Texas, the home of President Bush. They say it's important to send a message to him loud and clear that there are many voters not happy with the U.S. Iraq policy -- Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: Adora, I also understand taking to the mike there were some family members of some 9/11 victims, correct?

UDOJI: Indeed. There were some representatives of a group that represents 9/11, the victims. The family members of 9/11 victims. Indeed, they did come to speak, many saying that they believe that this war is unnecessary. That more bloodshed at this point is not the way towards peace. We heard lots of people talking about how our priorities, the United states, government priorities are not the way that they believe they should be, which is exactly why they came today.

WHITFIELD: Adora Udoji, thanks very much for that report from Manhattan.

Around the globe now thousands of protesters are demanding the departure of the U.S. from Iraq. As the day began protesters took to the streets in Asia including Japan, South Korea, India and Thailand. In London, thousands there marched. Some carried signs calling President Bush, quote, "the world's number one terrorist." More demonstrations were held in Rome and also in parts of Germany and Greece, the Netherlands and other countries in Europe. Back in this country, President Bush is confronting his critics on the war with a political rally of his own in central Florida. The state that helped put him in the White House nearly four years ago. Kathleen Koch has been traveling with the president. And when we get a chance to talk with her we will get the latest on his efforts.

Now a fierce battle in the war on terror is being waged this weekend in Pakistan. Pakistani troops are trying to capture or kill a group of suspected al Qaeda fighters holed up in a remote region near the Afghan border. And it is still not clear whether the terror group's second in command Ayman al-Zawahiri, is in the area. The latest from now from CNN's Ash-Har Quraishi in Islamabad.

ASH-HAR QURAISHI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It was the fifth day of fierce battle and violent clashes between Pakistani military forces and hundreds of suspect al-Qaeda fighters and tribesman helping them in the area known as south Waziristan in Pakistan's northwest, in the tribal areas there along the border with Afghanistan. Early on Saturday, military officials say at least three pick-up trucks tried to break a cordon that the military has been holding for days now. They say that those vehicles came under attack by Pakistani military helicopter gun ships killing all 12 passengers inside, believed to be suspected fighters. The military says it has made some progress in these operations.

They say they have been able to clear some eight compounds and they have captured around 100 suspected al-Qaeda fighters and those tribesman. They say these operations are ongoing. They are continuing. They have been pounding this area with heavy gunfire, artillery, as well as using those Cobra helicopters to soften the target in the center of this compound. They say they have been able to clear eight of them, as I mentioned. They say this is an ongoing effort. And that it is unclear how long the operation will last.

Now, also they say they have received some radio intercepts that indicated the possibility that a high ranking Uzbek or Chechen militant leader may have been one of these high value targets inside. They will not go into detail publicly about the existence of Ayman al- Zawahiri amidst the fighters, but they say they cannot rule it out right now. Intelligence sources telling CNN all this week that they believe Ayman al-Zawahiri, Usama bin Laden's number two, was being protected by these hundreds of suspected al-Qaeda fighters. But, again, they say the assessment on the ground cannot be made until the firing stops and until they are able to go into the area where they have been facing stiff resistance for days now. Ash-Har Qraishi, CNN, Islamabad.

WHITFIELD: The war on terror was one of the issues that President Bush addressed while campaigning in Florida. He also took the opportunity to start a campaign of helping to define his leading Democratic contender John Kerry. Our Kathleen Koch is traveling with the president with more -- Kathleen.

KOCH: As you mentioned earlier, when you were talking about the protests around the country there were a few protesters here in Orlando, Florida. Some of them protesting the president's policies in Iraq. Some of them protesting his economic policies. The president, in his first major campaign rally that was not a fundraising event, staunchly defended both. First on the war in Iraq, the president said the U.S.-led invasion ended one of the, quote, "most violent and dangerous regimes on earth." On the economy, the president insisted the jobs were being created gradually. The economy was strong and getting stronger. The president, though, as you said, spent most of his speech attacking his opponent, John Kerry, defining him, negatively, obviously. He criticized John Kerry for, among other things, voting against tax cuts and for proposing new federal programs that the president said John Kerry had not talked about how he would pay for those programs.

Now, just a few minutes ago we got a response from the Kerry campaign. I'll read that to you now. John Kerry's campaign responded saying, "These guys have dug themselves an enormous hole when it comes to credibility with the American people. "The Kerry campaign insisting that the economy is in "shambles," and that under the Bush administration it lost some 3 million jobs. Now the president, to say this was an enthusiastic crowd here, is an understatement. As he left the event, we have been hoping to bring you part of that event, part of what he said but we are having a little technical problem with that. As he left the event, the president shook hands with some of the 12,000-plus very happy supporters who were here during his speech. He was interrupted numerous times by chants of four more years, USA.

But Democrats here say that the president's policies that he defended in this speech have not done well for Florida. The state losing some 70,000 manufacturing jobs during the Bush presidency. Back to you, Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: Kathleen, let me ask you about the strategy upcoming. John Kerry, it's his plan to be in 20 cities over the next few weeks to try to raise money. President Bush does not really need money at this point. They already have something like 160 million. Instead, his tour across the country will really be focusing on campaigning efforts and recruiting support, right?

KOCH: Indeed. We saw an example of that here in Orlando. The Bush-Cheney campaign got on the ground here some four or five months ago. In that period of time, they have rallied some 2,000 new volunteers, registered some 600 new voters. They say they have even convinced a lot of voters to switch from Democrat to Republican. They say this is the sort of strategy they will follow around the country, getting on the ground before Bush-Cheney campaign event, really rallying the troops. After this event today, some 1,000 volunteers went out to man phone banks, to knock on doors. Again, trying to reach out. They set a goal of reaching some 38,000 Floridians by the end of the day. So very organized and pushing very strong.

WHITFIELD: All right. Kathleen Koch, traveling with the president as he was campaigning today in Orlando, Florida, thank you.

Well, despite the devastation, the plan for a new Iraq moves forward. We'll find out what can be done about the insurgent forces trying to slow the handover process in Iraq.

Also, fans of shock jock Howard stern make a bold stand for freedom of speech. That story straight ahead.

And a town in vocal turmoil after the commissioner proposes banning gays from the community. We've got that incredible story straight ahead.

WHITFIELD: Baghdad is blanketed by U.S. military patrols on this first anniversary of the start of the war. U.S. helicopters patrolled the skies in a security clampdown after a series of anti-coalition attacks this week. U.S. tanks patrol on the ground. All this while Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein remains in coalition custody after his capture last December. The U.S. has found no weapons of mass destruction, the original pretext for the war and the U.S. troop death toll now in Iraq stands at 570.

Well, some military experts are seeing a disturbing pattern in the latest series of attacks in Iraq. They say civilian targets like the Mount Lebanon Hotel in Baghdad are being favored more and more. Also, Iraqi insurgents appear to be getting some outside help. Military analyst David Isby provides someof his expertise for us from Washington. David, good to see you.

DAVID ISBY, MILITARY ANALYST: Good afternoon.

WHITFIELD: Well, first, let's tackle the issue of these attacks involving these hotels -- just kind of one, two, three, one after the other in Baghdad and Basra. The psychology had been that these hotels were targeted because they are frequented by Westerners. Does that seem plausible to you?

ISBY: Well, mainly they are there because they are soft targets. They don't have high security. And in recent months, we have seen the dependency of terrorist groups not just in Iraq, but al-Qaeda, and Turkey, and Tunisia, even in groups in central Asia, in Krygystan, Uzbekistan to target, quote, "soft targets," where there is not much security, just to show they're still in the game and able to kill people.

WHITFIELD: And perhaps the intent as well to send a message that they are against any kind of sovereignty, the handover plan for June 30th and perhaps, if that is the case does it seem like the violence may pick up if and when that handover were to take place?

ISBY: They really don't have a political plan, so instead they are sending a message, saying that this is an illegitimate regime the Americans have put in place because they cannot keep Iraqis safe. Which went along with this is the murder of Iraqis who have been working with the interim government, policemen and others often singled out for ambush killing bombs. So they are trying to show this government is illegitimate because it cannot provide security.

WHITFIELD: There are still the claims of hundreds, claims of hundreds of artillery that are still unclaimed. Is it believed that some of these attacks are using that kind of artillery, stolen artillery? Or is a lot of this weaponry coming from outside the borders?

ISBY: Most are still there. There's still vast amounts of hardware leftover from Saddam Hussein's military. Previously, a lot of this went into making the improvised explosive devices that killed so many American troops. Now in the future we may see things like 1- to 2-millimeter rockets being used for standoff attacks as security gets better. These can be fired without a crew manning them with a timing device. That may come in the future.

WHITFIELD: The number of Iraqis being killed or maimed in these attacks is the message that is being sent intimidation?

ISBY: Intimidation is part of it. Lack of -- lack of legitimacy is part of it. And also, it's the way these terrorists show they are still in the game. Indeed, that's why we -- you saw Madrid and there's great fear that al-Qaeda, other groups will strike in the United States in the next few months, even if it hurts their infrastructure, this to show they are not being beaten.

WHITFIELD: Secretary Powell, his surprise visit to Baghdad said, yesterday, quote, "The war has helped establish freedoms for Iraqis of the kind they never enjoyed before." Do the Iraqis buy that?

ISBY: In the end, they heard a lot of rhetoric. It will have to be results. A lot of Iraqis see their lives better now than it was a year ago under the Saddam Hussein regime. But you are going to have to prove this every day. And more to the point their neighbors may see it that people living under repressive regimes that life is better under the new order.

WHITFIELD: CNN military analyst, David Isby, thanks very much for joining us.

ISBY: Thank you.

WHITFIELD: Well, the U.S. wants to know if some Iraqi prisoners have been abused at the hands of some U.S. troops. Six soldiers have been suspended from duty while officials investigate. Barbara Starr is following that story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BARBARA STARR, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Six U.S. military personnel are now facing criminal charges for alleged abuse of Iraqi prisoners at Abu Gharib prison in Baghdad, what was once a notorious torture facility under Saddam Hussein. The charges include conspiracy, dereliction of duty, cruelty and maltreatment, assault and indecent acts. Some 20 Iraqi prisoners are said to have been subjected to the abuse.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Even though it was a very small number of detainees involved, that's a kind of cancer you have to cut out quickly. And if there's a problem, you need to address it very, very rapidly.

STARR: Seventeen U.S. personnel were relieved of duty weeks ago, after General Ricardo Sanchez, head of coalition forces, personally ordered the investigation. Military sources tell CNN it is alleged that the soldiers took pictures of Iraqis in detention. Sources say they are told the pictures show Iraqis partially clothed and the soldiers posing next to prisoners.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The Geneva Convention, which is our guideline for that, specifically prohibits making detainees, making prisoners of war subject to public curiosity and humiliation. And so that's why we feel it's important that we follow the procedures and allow the ICRC in for routine investigation -- routine inspections, health, welfare, to assure we are doing everything in accordance with the Geneva Conventions.

STARR: CNN has learned that nine additional military personnel and two civilian employees are also facing severe administrative reprimands that could effectively end their careers.

(on camera): A battalion commander, a company commander and the U.S. military commander of the prison certainly now facing questions, military sources say, about their fitness for command. Barbara Starr, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WHITFIELD: Profiting from the war? Straight ahead, the story of U.S. soldiers trying to turn a buck from items seized from Iraq. And bowing out. Prop princess Britney Spears on the sidelines. Much to the chagrin of her fans. We'll find out why.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: What were once palace treasures in Iraq are now potential trophies for your palace. They are items up for bid on the Internet. Gary Tuchman shows us how American collectors are trying to win some of Saddam Hussein's stolen prized possessions.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GARY TUCHMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Troops have always brought back souvenirs from war but they have not always had eBay.

(on camera): How much do you want for the Koran?

BRIAN KRAEMER, FMR. ARMY MILITARY POLICEMAN: There is a starting bid of $150.

TUCHMAN (voice-over): Brian Kraemer was an army military policeman during the Iraq War. The Pennsylvania resident took this Koran from one of Saddam Hussein's palaces and put it on eBay.

KRAEMER: They said as long as it wasn't a gun, ammunition or explosives you are allowed to bring anything else back.

TUCHMAN: The 24-year-old retired veteran says he also received permission from his commanders to take Iraqi handcuffs, an Iraqi police pin and a bayonet, which he also wants to auction.

(on camera): So you detained the soldier and you took the bayonet and brought it home with you?

KRAEMER: Yes.

TUCHMAN (voice-over): Other items on Ebay include a palace rug, bidding went over $1,100, and silverware, which sold for $71. U.S. Central Command told CNN taking or retaining individual souvenirs or trophies are prohibited. But added it does not preclude the lawful acquisition of souvenirs that can legally be imported. Specialist Kraemer believes it was lawful if the superiors gave their okay. KRAEMER: Is it morally wrong? Maybe. But to me, I have no guilty conscious over this one.

TUCHMAN (on camera): And what does eBay think of all this? The Internet auction site says because of U.S. government laws, items from Iraq are not allowed to be auctioned. So if it's seen on the site it will be pulled off.

(voice-over): Hours after we met with Kraemer with his Koran price climbing close to $700, eBay did see it and now it's been pulled off. Gary Tuchman, CNN, Uniontown, Pennsylvania.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WHITFIELD: In other news, across America now, in Washington state, a jury of pastors resumed deliberations in the church trial of a gay Methodist pastor. Reverend Karen Dammann is charged with practices incompatible with teachings of the United Methodist Church. She could lose her ministry.

The suspect in that string of Ohio highway shootings is on his way back to Ohio today. Charles McCoy Jr. waived extradition in a court hearing yesterday in Las Vegas. McCoy will go before an Ohio judge on Monday.

Stern support from fans of shock jock Howard Stern, they held a rally in Westwood, California to protest his recent Federal indecency fine of more than $27,000.

And oops, Britney Spears -- she has hurt herself. The pop star suffered a knee injury during this stop on her concert tour. She had to cancel a performance last night in suburban Chicago. There is still no word on whether she will make up that date.

More attacks on the Democratic front-runner, tough talks from President Bush on John Kerry, we have the latest from the campaign trial.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is just plain stupid. I think JC Fugate owes all of Ray County an apology.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: Neighbors in an uproar in Tennessee after a county commissioner wants gays booted out. The story when CNN LIVE SATURDAY returns.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: Here are the headlines at the half hour. From Sydney to Seattle, from Chicago to Cairo, thousands are protesting the first anniversary of the war in Iraq. The demonstrators are calling for the removal of American and other troops from the country. In most cities, police are out in force to help keep the peace. In the war zone, the U.S. military confirms the death of an American Marine in an attack yesterday. Officials say the Marine died in security and stability operations in Iraq, al Ansar province.

And a fierce fight continues in the mountainous border region of Western Pakistan. Troops are trying to flush out suspected militants. Pakistani officials say soldiers have arrested 100 suspects, possibly al-Qaeda members. The army is denying reports that it had attacked civilians in the region earlier in the day.

In the U.S., we are told two men are sharing a $500,000 reward in the D.C.-sniper case -- Robert Holmes of Tacoma, Washington and Whitney Donahue of Green Castle, Pennsylvania. Holmes tipped police that his friend, John Alan Muhammad, might be the shooter. Donahue spotted the suspect's car at the central Maryland rest area where the two were arrested.

John Kerry is taking a break from the campaign trail but not on the ski slopes. The leading Democratic presidential candidate went snowboarding for a second day in Idaho. He is vacationing in Ketchum with his wife all under the watchful eye of the secret service. Kerry returns to political life next week to attend a Democratic fundraiser in Washington.

While John Kerry is on R&R, the Democrats are taking up the attack on President Bush and his economic policy. Michigan Governor Jennifer Granholm spoke about the loss of jobs in this weekly radio address.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JENNIFER GRANHOLM, GOVERNOR OF MICHIGAN: President Bush promised that his tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans would create over 4 million jobs. In fact, he lost 3 million. Just this week, we learned his administration actively hid the cost of his Medicare Plan from Congress and the American people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: From the economy to military proficiency to international affairs, both presidential candidates are criticizing the other. President Bush and John Kerry are unleashing their political attack ads. Is the campaign turning nasty much earlier than usual? Let's ask our guest, Robert Zimmerman. He is a Democratic strategist. And Tara Setmayer is a Republican strategist. Good to see both of you.

ROBERT ZIMMERMAN, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Good to be with you. First day of spring.

WHITFIELD: Yes, no kidding, I am so glad it is here. Happy first day of spring. Well, Tara, I will begin with you, ladies first. The Bush-Cheney campaign is already saying it's on the offensive trying to define John Kerry and trying to define him as being inconsistent. Why not just accentuate the positive in terms of the Bush-Cheney issues already at hand?

TARA SETMAYER, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Well, that's exactly what they're doing. It's a balance. President Bush demonstrated his ability to connect with the American people today at his campaign rally in Orlando. He is to the point, he has tested it, proven leadership. And he is accentuating the positives, as well as allowing the American people to see the flip-flop positions that Senator Kerry has taken. We really do not know where Senator Kerry stands on major issues. And we do know where President Bush is. He is unwavering, and that is a clear choice and a clear difference. And that's the approach we are taking.

ZIMMERMAN: Clearly, he is unwavering, and that's why when every poll shows that 54 percent or 55 percent of the American people believe our country is moving in the wrong direction, they do want change. That's what John Kerry represents. And there's a reason that George Bush and Dick Cheney are focusing their campaign at an unprecedented early stage in his personal attacks on John Kerry.

WHITFIELD: What do you believe the reason is, Robert?

ZIMMERMAN: The reason very simply is because George Bush and Dick Cheney can't run on a record of losing 3 million jobs, can't run on a record of a record number of Americans without health insurance. Can't run on the fact that we are facing a manufacturing depression in this country. Even creating such deficits that Alan Greenspan, who has been supporting the Bush economic program said the deficits are so severe that it might risk either raising taxes or, in fact, cutting social security services. But there's no record to run on.

SETMAYER: Well, the Bush record is also one of record low inflation, record low unemployment, over 94 percent of the American people do have jobs. 1.8 million jobs have been created. It depends on which indicator you want to use.

ZIMMERMAN: No, it does not. It depends on what the White House tells us.

SETMAYER: Excuse me, yes, it does. 1.8 million jobs have been created. Indicators that you are using do not exclude self-employed or -- and also there have been 112,000 jobs created last month. This administration does have a record that they can run on and they will run on that. They also have -- more Americans own their own homes. The Kerry campaign is running on ...

ZIMMERMAN: If I could make a point.

SETMAYER: ... on fear -- they are running on fear. They are running on anger and the Bush administration ...

WHITFIELD: Well, time out. Let me just jump in there for a second. If those are the issues that the Bush-Cheney White House wants to accentuate then why, Tara, do you suppose it is that that White House is spending so much time and money, if it's $160 million in its fundraising coffers on the ads that will be seen on the television sets, on the websites as well as radio to make the disparaging remarks about their number one contender?

SETMAYER: Well, because they -- right now, we are at a position in the campaign where we need to -- each candidate has to define themselves. Bush has taken attacks for the last three months without any type of response. I think that the administration they were a little slow in their response. So now, they need to define Kerry.

WHITFIELD: Robert, is John Kerry in a corner?

ZIMMERMAN: Fredricka, if I could point out, the Bush administration is not defining itself. What they are trying to do is distort John Kerry's record.

SETMAYER: There's no distortion.

ZIMMERMAN: And the reason John Kerry is running ahead in most polls or running even with the president, despite the president's enormous fiscal campaign funding advantages is because the American people want to talk about the issues today. They want an explanation from this administration as to why he has ignored his own intelligence reports regarding Iraq, why they concealed the numbers regarding the cost of the Medicare program, why they have a record number of Americans who do not have health insurance. The American people want answers from this administration and the response has been to dodge, to evade and to ultimately deceive.

WHITFIELD: And, Robert, let's talk about ...

SETMAYER: That is absolutely not true. There has been no deceiving. There has been no dodging. This president is very straight forward.

ZIMMERMAN: Let me point out ...

SETMAYER: Let me ask both of you real quick, if we can address the arsenal that both sides are using. Robert, John Kerry is using some heavy hitters such as former Secretary of State Madeleine Albright and even borrowing from some of the sentiments of some of his former contenders, Howard Dean, Wes Clark. How important is it for him to show that he has got support on all of these various levels?

ZIMMERMAN: I think what is more impressive, Fredricka, is the arsenal of the comments from Republicans and officials in the administration. When Senator John McCain says that John Kerry is strong on defense, that says a great deal. When former Bush Secretary of State Larry Eagleburger says we did not know what we were getting into when we got into Iraq, that says a great deal. When the acting secretary of the army says we underestimated the insurgency, that talks to the lack of planning and lack of proper intelligence research. When Alan Greenspan holds the administration accountable for record deficits, we see Republicans now and, in fact, even conservative groups like the Heritage Foundation stepping up and saying the Bush White House has increased spending to the highest level since 1944.

WHITFIELD: OK, Robert, running out of time. Let me have Tara respond to this. In Bush's corner, he has got his adviser, Karen Hughes, who is, once again, hitting the airwaves. Karl Rove, who is known as a chief political strategist. How pivotal are these players in the strategy of the Bush-Cheney campaign?

SETMAYER: Well, they are extremely important. They were the architects of his successful election in 2000. And was does say a lot about John Kerry is his record. And his record of voting against defense systems that are pivotal in this -- in our war on terrorism. The fact he is a tax and spend liberal. The most liberal of the Senate, more liberal than Ted Kennedy. These are things that are in his record, words that he has expressed. He wants to raise taxes, and he has 34 million American working families have received $1500 more in tax money.

ZIMMERMAN: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) an not deceive the public, Karen.

WHITFIELD: All right, we are out of time, but you know what you guys, we have eight months to talk some more about this before Election Day. I'm sure we will have you back.

SETMAYER: I can't wait.

WHITFIELD: OK, Karen Setmayer and Robert Zimmerman, thanks very much and see you again soon.

ZIMMERMAN: Thank you.

WHITFIELD: All right. The issue of gay rights and gay marriages continues to spur debate across America. But for one Tennessee county the debate is not over gay rights, it is over their right to live there, simply. CNN's Jason Bellini explains.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JASON BELLINI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It was a topic that pitted neighbor against neighbor -- kicking the gays out of Ray County. The commissioners who on Tuesday had voted unanimously that gays should be barred from their county, reconvened Thursday for an emergency meeting. That, after the county attorney informed the commissioners that the measure they passed was unconstitutional. The ruckus started Tuesday when the Commissioner JC Fugate introduced the motion telling the local newspaper he wanted gays, quote, "out of here."

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: everybody is entitled to freedom, and this is just plain stupidity. I think JC Fugate owes all of Ray County an apology.

BELLINI: All of this is taking place in the historic courthouse of the 1925 Scopes Monkey trial.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And in God.

BELLINI: As depicted in the movie, "Inherit the Wind," teacher John Scopes was tried and convicted for teaching evolution.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: God tells me to oppose the evil teachings of that man! God speaks to you?

BELLINI: Ray County resident June Griffin supports the move to ban gays.

JUNE GRIFFIN, RAY COUNTY RESIDENT: I think this is the greatest thing that's happened on behalf of Christian people in a long time.

BELLINI: At the courthouse, Griffin was vastly outnumbered by many who agreed with this gay student.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It is our right to live here and it is our right to be who we are.

BELLINI: The meeting was over in less than five minutes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Meeting adjourned.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you regret how you voted? Do you regret how you voted?

BELLINI: No debate, no comment from the commissioners. They unanimously reversed their Tuesday vote.

(on camera): After the emergency meeting was over, the county commissioners were ushered out of a back exit under police protection. None of the commissioners would return my phone calls. Local reporters here tell me that they, too, tried to reach them. They hung out on their doorsteps all day, and they couldn't get comments either.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why did you make the decision in the first place?

BELLINI: The commissioners decided on this night to keep their views on gays in the closet. Jason Bellini, CNN, Dayton, Tennessee.

WHITFIELD: The right-hand man of the world's largest terror network and troops are trying to find him. But who is Ayman al- Zawahiri? Up next, an inside look at the terror mastermind.

Also, the prosecution rests in the case of Jayson Williams. Now defense attorneys are getting ready to highlight their case. We will examine the strategy in our legal roundtable.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: Back now to Pakistan's hunt for al-Qaeda members. Pakistani troops today are keeping up their battle with suspected members of the terror group. And it's still not clear whether al Qaeda's second in command, Ayman al-Zawahiri, is in the area where Pakistani troops are conducting their operation. CNN's Jonathan Mann gives us a closer look at al-Zawahiri and his role in al-Qaeda.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JONATHAN MANN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Ayman al-Zawahiri made his public debut as a Muslim militant more than 20 years ago. AYMAN AL-ZAWAHIRI: We want to see to the whole world.

MANN: Back then, al-Zawahiri, a young doctor, was imprisoned for his involvement with the assassination of Egyptian President Anwar Sadat. After his release, al-Zawahiri made his way to Pakistan and Afghanistan where he worked as a doctor treating Islamic fighters who were trying to overthrow the Soviet regime in Afghanistan. This is when he met Usama bin Laden and found a common cause.

(GUNFIRE)

MANN: Years later, the two men would shift their holy war from the Soviets to the Americans and go public with their terror alliance. The attacks against America began weeks later with suicide bombings of two U.S. embassies. Then there was the attack on the "USS Cole" in 2000 and the 9/11 attacks. Al-Zawahiri often appeared by bin Laden's side. A clear indication of his status as bin Laden's number two and closest advisor. And after 9/11, al-Zawahiri started making his own audiotapes warning of more attacks on America and its allies.

Ayman al-Zawahiri has been plotting revolution and terror since the age of 16. Now, at the age of 52, his time may have run out. Jonathan Mann, CNN.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WHITFIELD: And this programming note, CNN's "PEOPLE ON THE NEWS" take an in-depth look at Ayman al-Zawahiri and Usama bin Laden. That's coming up today at 5:00 Eastern time.

In other news around the world, the investigation into last week's bombing attacks in Madrid grinds on. Spanish authorities yesterday charged five suspects in connection with the bombings. An Algerian man held in connection to the attacks was later released.

In Gaza, Palestinian sources say a 7-year-old girl died of her injuries following an incident Friday night with the Israeli army. The Israeli sources say they fired warning shots toward approaching Palestinian youths, and the sources say they know nothing of the girl's death and say they are investigating that incident.

US Secretary of State Colin Powell wrapped up a six-day tour of Asia and the Middle East with a stop in Kuwait. He announced the U.S. was looking into reports Saddam Hussein diverted money from a U.N. oil for food program for Iraq.

You can make more of your money and make it grow and be in better shape to retire early all without winning the lottery or even asking your boss for a raise. How? Watch CNN "DOLLAR SIGNS" at 4:30 Eastern today when noted author David Bach joins me to give you tips on the simple steps to increase your wealth. You can e-mail your questions to him. The address is dollarsigns@cnn.com. We will also be taking your phone calls. That toll free number is 1-800-807-2620. The lines are open at 4:30 p.m. Eastern today.

Coming up next this Saturday, a deeper look into the Tyco trial and other high-profile cases in our legal roundtable.

And what were they thinking? Virgin Airlines feels the heat after a proposal for an upper class clubhouse.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: As the buzz over the Martha Stewart case dissipates, it is being replaced about talk about another trial -- the Tyco trial, also in New York, a corporate corruption case involving two former executives is now in the jury's hands. The question is, could the Stewart case influence the Tyco verdict? We pose that question to a pair of our legal experts as we look at today's legal brief. Avery Friedman in Cleveland, Ohio and Richard Herman in Fort Lauderdale, Florida. Good to see both of you.

RICHARD HERMAN, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: How are you, Fredricka?

WHITFIELD: I'm doing great.

AVERY FRIEDMAN, CIVIL RIGHTS ATTORNEY: Hi Fredricka, ready to go.

WHITFIELD: All right, well, here we go. Right off the case. Let's talk about the Jayson Williams case. And Richard, the defense argued or tried to argue that the weapon malfunctioned. Is this an indication of the strategy of the defense when they get the case on Wednesday?

HERMAN: It's a strategy but it is a losing strategy. Look, the case of Williams' case is over. The Jayson Williams case is over. The prosecution case was devastating to him. What they have to do on defense is this -- they have to key in and try to get a conviction on the lesser included charge. That's it. Jayson Williams will have to testify in this case. If he does not testify, he will get -- if you think the Martha Stewart verdict was quick, this jury is going to stand up from the box and say guilty right from the box.

WHITFIELD: Avery, do we need to hear from Jayson Williams on this case?

FRIEDMAN: I thought at the beginning of the trial that we would see Richard in a blond wig in a dress before we would ever see Jayson Williams testify. And I have to rethink that. I think he has got to testify because of the overwhelming evidence. The difficulty he is facing, 55 years. And Billy Martin, his defense lawyer really does not have a choice. He is going to walk into a real thicket, but he is stopped. There is nothing he can do about it.

WHITFIELD: Well, right out the gate and we have you guys in agreement. All right, well, let me ask you ...

HERMAN: I'm not sure I agree.

WHITFIELD: OK. Let me ask you this -- the defense was described as being rather sarcastic when it cross examined the weapons expert. That's certainly something that could backfire, couldn't it in the face of the jury?

HERMAN: Absolutely, it is going to backfire. In addition to that, it looks like that the gun, the wood chip they found was caused by the defense expert's examining the gun, the gun that had not been there at the time Williams used the gun. This whole defense with the gun it is over. The guy was drunk, he went to the box, he pulled the gun out, he cocked it, he pointed it right at this guy, Gus, and shot him direct.

FRIEDMAN: Well, there's another part of it. The other part of it is that the jury already knows that he gave an interview to Barbara Walters, and Billy Martin in his opening statement promised that they would hear from Jayson. So, this week will determine his guilt or innocence. This is a big week for Jayson Williams.

HERMAN: He will never be acquitted, Fredricka. He will get convicted, or one juror, again, like I said before, one juror might feel an affinity to Jason and hold out for a hung jury.

WHITFIELD: OK, all right. Well, let's move on to the Tyco trial. Jurors are in their second day of deliberation -- or they wrapped up their second day of deliberations. They will go back on Wednesday. Did the Martha Stewart case, Avery, kind of set the tone for, you know, any kind of corporate crime case now a days?

FRIEDMAN: Martha Stewart is not going to help anyone, especially Dennis Kozlowski and Mark Schwartz. The difficulty here is that they have to justify what has happened. The prosecution has put on evidence of criminal intent, and you know what? The jury asked for the prosecution's charge of 68 separate acts of criminality. And that's the problem they will face. The judge instructed them on inferences of criminal intent. Both of these guys are in a world of trouble.

WHITFIELD: Richard.

HERMAN: The jury also asked the judge to define for them what criminal intent was. And the judge said to them he directed them, if in your deliberations you determine that Kozlowski and Swartz thought they had corporate authorization for what they did, you must acquit them. That's a very powerful direct charge by this judge. This company, this company employs 270,000 people. They do $36 billion in annual revenue. And during the last eight years under Kozlowski's rein, the company annual revenue has gone up tenfold. And he had bonus structures in his contract. Everyone knows that's where the big bucks are made on bonuses. How he spent the money is irrelevant what he spent it on.

WHITFIELD: And the big defense is he said, Kozlowski says that the board knew exactly all the details about the compensation package.

FRIEDMAN: Even though six directors ...

WHITFIELD: Real quick. We are running out of time ...

HERMAN; Even though six directors said that they didn't. WHITFIELD: OK, let's talk about the Justice Scalia case, the Supreme Court justice. He says, you know what, his predecessors have had a relationship with higher ups from the White House. And his relationship with Dick Cheney is no different and so he should not recuse himself from the case. Avery, let me let you jump in on that first.

FRIEDMAN: Well, from a constitutional perspective, Fredricka, this is terrible. The rule says any justice shall, that's mandatory, excuse himself from a case where impartiality may be questioned. There's impartiality all over the place. There are more holes in judicial ethics as a result of his decision than the ducks he was shooting out down in Louisiana. This is shameful. This is terrible.

WHITFIELD: All right, Richard ...

HERMAN: It is the appearance of impropriety. And if you hired me to sue Avery and right before the trial I told you Avery was partying with the judge, how would you feel, Fredricka? Especially knowing how much he parties.

WHITFIELD: And, apparently, doesn't this decision stand unchallenged, doesn't' it?

FRIEDMAN: There's nothing you can do about it.

WHITFIELD: Nothing you can do. All right.

FRIEDMAN: The rule of the Supreme Court is that each justice decides on whether or not to recuse himself or herself.

WHITFIELD: All right. Anthony Scalia gets the last word.

FRIEDMAN: That's right.

WHITFIELD: Richard Herman and Avery Friedman, thank you very much.

FRIEDMAN: Thanks Fredricka. Nice to see you.

WHITFIELD: See you next week maybe.

All right, a controversial potty lands Virgin Airlines in hot water. Coming up next, details on the proposal that sent women's groups into a frenzy.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: We end with an uproar over a men's urinal. Some women expressed outrage over the proposed design. Gene Most tells us how they finally found relief.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JEANNE MOOS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: If you think ordinary urinals are yucky, imagine one that had some women fleeing. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, my God.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, my God.

MOST: It's called the kisses urinal and Virgin Atlantic had to kiss it good-bye after a storm of criticism.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Degrading and humiliating.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What were they thinking.

MOOS: What they say they were thinking was how perky and fun it would be to have the artsy urinals in the men's room at Virgin's JFK clubhouse.

(on camera): Offensive or funny?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Both.

MOOS: Virgin's clubhouse for upper class flyers features everything from a waterfall to computers. Plans to install the kisses urinals are what caused mouths to drop.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That's awful!

MOOS: The urinal is the work of a female designer from the Netherlands.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The first response from all the guys is like, oh, my God, it has teeth. Then they say, it doesn't glow, does it?

MOOS: Meike van Schijndel company Bathroom Mania produces everything from a flower pot toilet to a hammock bath. She has had over 2,000 inquiries about buying the $600 urinal.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Basically, it's guys relieving themselves in a woman's mouth.

MEIKE VAN SCHIJNDEL, BATHROOM MANIA: It didn't even cross my mind when I was making it.

MOOS: The artist says she just thought the design was sexy.

(on camera): Would you feel comfortable using this urinal?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When you got to go, you got to go.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: With a smile on my face.

MOOS: But the smile was wiped off Virgin's face when the National Organization for Women scheduled a protest. In the middle of it, word came down that Virgin had backed out.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Isn't that terrific. Somebody has come to their senses. MOOS: Virgin says the level of public concern was the kiss of death for the urinal. Critics had a proposal for Virgin officials like CEO Richard Branson.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: With their own face being on these urinals. I think that is what they should do.

MOOS: It doesn't pay to be potty mouth. Jeanne Moos, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WHITFIELD: Well, so much more to come on "CNN SATURDAY" straight ahead. Next on CNN, what if an asteroid is on a collision course with earth. What can be done to stop it?

At 4 Eastern, CNN LIVE SATURDAY in "DOLLAR SIGNS" saving money to retire early. "PEOPLE IN THE NEWS" is right after that. Today, profiling al Qaeda's top leadership Ayman al-Zawahiri and Usama bin Laden. But first, here are the top stories.

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Orlando, Florida; Tracking The Hunt For Ayman al-Zawahiri; Antiwar Rally Commemorates One-Year Anniversary Of Iraq War.>