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CNN Live Saturday
Powell Admits WMD Evidence Flawed; Cornered Suspects Blow Up Building In Spain
Aired April 03, 2004 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CAROL LIN, CNN ANCHOR: A manhunt leads to a deadly blast in Madrid. Three suspected terrorists killed themselves and a policeman when they set off an explosion. 11 other police officers were wounded.
In Iraq, coalition forces have arrested the deputy of a powerful Shia. The cleric has said he condemns the United States. Hours later, thousands of Shia militia members put on a show of support for the outspoken cleric.
And in Texas, a jury is deliberating the fate of Deanna Laney. She is on trial for allegedly bludgeoning to death her two sons, ages 8 and 6. Laney has pleaded not guilty by reason of insanity. If convicted, she could get life in prison.
I'm Carol Lin and welcome to CNN LIVE SATURDAY. Coming up this hour, we saw it in the Tyco mistrial and the Martha Stewart case. What do the attorneys look for picking those jurors?
Also, is the fight for gay marriage the same as the fight for civil rights? African-Americans are torn on the issue and they could determine the fate of gay marriage. We have both sides live coming up.
But we begin right now in Spain. An intense manhunt for terrorism suspects leads to a deadly blast in a southern suburb of Madrid. Four people are dead. They include a policeman and the three terror suspects. CNN's Al Goodman joins us now by videophone from Madrid with the very latest there. Al, first, how did this start?
AL GOODMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (via videophone): Carol, the police cornered three suspects in the Madrid commuter train bombings, those bombings three weeks ago that killed 190 people and injured 1800. The police in this southern suburb called Leganes cornered them this Saturday. Shots were fired, and as the police moved in, there was a terrible explosion. This is how Spain's Interior Minister at a news conference a short while ago described the scene as the police closed in.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANGEL ACEBES, SPANISH INTERIOR MINISTER (through translator): At this very moment, I can truly say that it is three bodies of three alleged terrorists that may have sacrificed themselves, although there is--we have not given up the possibility that there might be somebody else as a result of this explosion. The police considers that some of the terrorists that have died after this explosion were some that were being sought by the armed forces as alleged authors of the massacre of March the 11th.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GOODMAN: As authored, the translator means to say that he meant the bombers, people that actually put the bombs on the trains that killed those and wounded those unsuspecting commuters.
Now, one police officer died also in the assault on that apartment in that southern suburb this Saturday. 11 others -- excuse me, Carol -- were injured.
All of this, officials say, is part of the ongoing investigation since the bombings in Madrid on the commuter trains and there have been several principle suspects, individuals in that investigation. And there's also a group that is considered a major suspect.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GOODMAN (voice-over): Spanish police now have a prime suspect in the Madrid commuter train bombings.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Investigators say the priority is a Moroccan Islamic Combatant Group. They're not ruling out other options but all signs point in that direction.
GOODMAN: The U.S. Government lists the Moroccan Combatant Group as a terrorist organization. Experts say it draws followers from Spain's large population of Moroccan immigrations.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They basically using the linkage, pre- existing linkage to each other, most of those people either lived with each other or family or childhood friends. And all of them, I guess, organizers of the Madrid bombing.
GOODMAN: Then there was the attempt to blow up a bullet train South of Madrid on Friday. A railway worker discovered the bomb and it was deactivated.
Was it the same Moroccan terrorist group? Some Spanish newspapers say, yes. But the interior minister says that's a premature conclusion even though he revealed the explosives used were exactly the same in both cases.
Eleven of the 15 suspects charged in the commuter train bombings are Moroccan, but there is also a Tunisian, this man, sought by police as a coordinator of the attacks.
Authorities say he helped this Moroccan man who's also wanted on an international arrest want rent a home just east of Madrid. The house is now empty but police found fingerprints, traces of explosives and other evidence they say incriminate several suspects.
Police say here the conspirators prepared the bombs which suddenly ripped apart commuter trains, destroyed lives and shook an entire nation.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GOODMAN: Carol, the latest scene in this investigation: that apartment standoff in the southern suburb of Leganes and police for the first time in this investigation seeing that some terrorist suspects choosing death rather than surrender -- Carol?
LIN: All right. Thank you very much, Al Goodman. A busy day for you.
And back here in the United States, the nation's transit systems are beefing up security. The government warned police across the country that terrorists may target buses and trains this summer. CNN's Elaine Quijano joins us now from Washington with more details. Elaine, how real do you think this threat is?
ELAINE QUIJANO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, difficult to say, Carol, but certainly federal law enforcement sources are cautioning that the information that prompted this so-called message of concern is uncorroborated.Now, that means it came from a single source and has not matched in the intelligence community.
Nevertheless, late this week, the FBI and the Department of Homeland Security sent police agencies and other agencies across the U.S. information about a possible terror plot targeting buses or rail lines this summer.
Now, specifically, according to this message, the possible plan calls for the use of improvised explosive devices perhaps made of ammonium nitrate and diesel fuel, also, according to the information, the explosives may be concealed in luggage and carry-on bags and might include duffel bags or backpacks.
Now, the information is very general. No specifics on where or when, only that an attack could happen this summer in a major American city.
Now, this message was not meant as a public announcement or a public warning and so far many passengers say they do not plan to alter their travel schedules.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE; You know, if somebody really wants to blow it up, you know, it's going to happen. But, you know, that's part of life. We all live with that every day. But overall, I would say I have a lot of confidence in our train system.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don't choose to live in fear like that. I think that you still have to keep living and I don't think that you can spend your time worrying about something that's going to happen.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
QUIJANO: Now, as far as the message, federal officials included suggestions to mass transit officials on beefing up security on public transportation systems: things like increasing patrols, using bomb- sniffing dogs, removing trash cans.
But many security measures are already in place. For example, here in Washington, Metro subway officials recently implemented a new campaign where passengers are asked to be pro-active if they see a suspicious or unattended bag.
So, all of this, meanwhile--the FBI today saying that they have no comment on this information. The nation's terror threat level, Carol, remains at yellow -- Carol.
LIN: All right. Thank you very much, Elaine.
Secretary of State Colin Powell now admits his critical testimony before the UN Security Council last year was based on flawed sources.
Powell testified last February about a month before the Iraq War began. For example, he said he had intelligence that Iraq had mobile production facilities for biological weapons.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COLIN POWELL, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: We have diagrammed what our sources reported about these mobile facilities. Here you see both truck- and rail car-mounted mobile factories. The description our sources gave us of the technical features required by such facilities are highly detailed and extremely accurate.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LIN: But, Colin Powell says it now appears that intelligence was not solid.
Our White House correspondent Dana Bash has more. Dana, these remarks, some of them came up while the secretary was actually returning from a NATO meeting in Brussels and talking with reporters.
DANA BASH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Carol. He was referring, of course to that 90-minute presentation that he gave. It was really the most high profile and detailed attempt by the U.S. to convince the UN and the world that it was important to go to war against Saddam Hussein.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
POWELL: ...to verify...
BASH (voice-over): As he made his case for war at the UN with the CIA director at the side, Secretary of State Colin Powell described as fact: Iraq has biological weapons factories on wheels.
POWELL: We know that Iraq has at least seven of the mobile biological agent factories.
BASH: Secretary Powell now concedes that what he called the most dramatic part of the presentation was based on flawed information. "Now it appears not to be the case that it was that solid, but at the time that I was preparing that presentation it was presented to me as being solid," Powell told reporters on a return flight from Europe.
It's a latest attempt to explain why the administrations main reason for war-Iraq's weapons of mass destruction has not panned out. And the latest example, now from Powell, who put the credibility on the line of blaming bad intelligence.
Trailers fitting Powell's description were found in Iraq after the war, but experts think they were to produce hydrogen for weather balloons.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is it your opinion that the consensus in the intelligence community now is that those are not biological weapons vans?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That is my personal judgment.
BASH: Powell says he highlighted the mobile labs, because he was given four sources of information to back it up. "I'm not the intelligence community, but I probed and I made sure and as I said in my presentation, these are multi-sourced," Powell said.
One year later, under fire, the CIA Director himself admitted some sources may have been wrong or even lying about bio-weapons trailers.
GEORGE TENET, CIA DIRECTOR: There is no consensus within our intelligence community today over whether the trailers were for that use or if they were used for the production of hydrogen.
KENNEHT POLLACK, CNN ANALYST: The intelligence was exaggerated on Iraq and we desperately need to reform the intelligence community to get at the source of those problems and this may have been the Secretary of State trying to prod an intelligence community that's been a little bit sluggish in doing so.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BASH: A CIA spokesman declined to comment beyond what Director Tenet said in February. And as for Secretary Powell, he said he hopes the commission appointed by President Bush appointed will help get to the bottom of why he may have been given faulty intelligence -- Carol.
LIN: Dana, is there much strategy behind Secretary Powell suddenly coming without the admission?
BASH: Well, you know, if you listen to what Secretary Powell and, frankly, other officials have been saying, we've slowly begun to hear them admit and really concede that what they heard from the intelligence community may not have been accurate, but Secretary Powell is obviously a specific and unique case because he did essentially put his credibility on the line.
He gave that presentation, the entire world was watching and he went to the CIA, poured over documents for four days and he said in this meeting with reporters on his plane that he thought that it was accurate. That is why he went out there and did that.
But it is clear even from the CIA Director last month that they really don't know if it's actually accurate. This is one of many examples of how they think that it's important to look into intelligence, Carol.
LIN: Thank you very much. Dana Bash live at the White House.
Two Iraqi police chiefs killed in 24 hours. The head of police in a town south of Baghdad was killed when a man in a police uniform stopped him to ask a question and then opened fire. The day before, insurgents killed a provincial police chief and his deputy in Najaf.
Now, military officials tell CNN the gruesome attack in Fallujah this past week may have been planned. They say the cities normally busy streets were empty and shops were closed just before the ambush. At the same time, a number of Iraqi media were in the area. Four U.S. security contractors were killed Wednesday, their bodies mutilated. CNN Analyst Ken Pollock says investigator have a tough job ahead of them.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KEN POLLOCK, CNN ANALYST: It's going to be very difficult for the United States to figure out exactly who did this and bring them to justice. Obviously, the U.S. needs to being doing so, needs to try it, but in truth, in a tribal town like Fallujah where there are enormous bonds of loyalty, where keeping quiet and not informing authorities about someone who did something like this is the prevailing attitude. It is going to be extremely difficult.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LIN: And here's another side of the story. No doubt about it, war correspondents know they could be maimed or killed on the job. But in Iraq, some journalists are raising questions about the extreme danger they face in U.S.-led war on terror. CNN's Barbara Starr has more.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BARBARA STARR, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In Baghdad, the Arab press made its anger known when Secretary of State Colin Powell began a press conference.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): We ask for an investigation, an open investigation before all of the media with the entity that committed this murder of the journalist.
STARR: And then, a walkout. Protesting the accidental shooting of two Arab journalists the day before by American soldiers at a check point.
POWELL: I respect the rights and privileges of the journalists who just left to express their feelings.
STARR: 24 journalists had been killed by Iraqi and insurgent fire since the war began more than a year ago. And at least six others accidentally killed by U.S. forces according to the Committee to Protect Journalists.
JOE CAMPAGNA, CMTE. TO PROTECT JOURNALISTS: Iraq is the most dangerous place to work in the world as a journalist. Journalists there today face myriad risks from shootings to suicide bombings to carjackings.
STARR: As civilians on the Iraq battlefield, journalists are vulnerable, as are contractors and civilians who recently have been killed. But reporters themselves are generally unarmed. Some news organizations have hired their own security. The traditional solution of marking press or TV: not the best idea in Iraq.
STEPHEN NARU, REUTERS: With the insurgent activity that's going on in that country right now, there are several journalists that believe taking that sort of a profile more endangers you.
STARR: Reuters cameraman Mazen Dana was killed at Abu Ghraib prison when he raised his camera and a soldier, who was not told reporters who were in the area, thought it was a grenade launcher according to a military investigation.
Soldiers told investigators that Dana, who was a Palestinian, looked to be an Iraqi national with, quote, "dark skin and dark hair." To avoid future tragedies, the Pentagon is considering credentialing reporters and improving training and communication between the military and the media, so everyone knows where reporters may be located.
(on camera): News organizations, contractors and private companies now all increasingly concerned that Iraq is becoming more violent and more unstable for their employees. Barbara Starr, CNN, the Pentagon.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LIN: Well, there was an early morning sign of relief but it wasn't enough. Parts of Colorado are still burning despite the wet weather.
And, was it an abuse of power or not? We're going to hear what the jurors have to say about the Tyco case.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LIN: Cool, wet weather is helping crews fight an 8700-acre wild fire west of Ft. Collins, Colorado. But residents of 140 homes in two subdivisions cannot go home yet. Firefighters estimate the blaze is about 30% contained.
And many Americans are remembering a monster tornado system that ripped through the South and Midwest 30 years ago today. A single storm spun off some 140 tornadoes from Alabama to Michigan. It killed more than 300 people. One savage twister destroyed much of downtown Xenia, Ohio.
And in Edwardsville, Kansas, just outside Kansas City, a paramedic and co-worker she was living with were apparently ambushed at their fire station. Both were found dead after they failed to respond to a call. Police have issued a warrant for the paramedic's ex-husband.
A baby is found in an alley alive in Bowling Green, Kentucky. A nurse's assistant is facing kidnapping charges. The baby girl was missing for more than five hours yesterday. Police say the suspect had been faking a pregnancy.
In Miami-Dade County, a panel from amusement ride falls off and seven people are hurt, one critically.
Still to come, it's game time in Texas right now. Up next, I'm going to take you to San Antonio where college basketball's Final Four are duking it out.
Plus, he's not old enough to drive. He's not even shaving yet. But that's not stopping his million dollar kick.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LIN: Right now, college basketball's semi-finals are underway in Texas. Georgia Tech and Oklahoma State are up first. They're going head to head at the Alamodome. And our Larry Smith is on assignment with the latest from San Antonio.
LARRY SMITH, CNN SPORTS CORRESPONDENT: Oklahoma State and Georgia Tech are now underway inside the Alamodome with more than 40,000 people inside. The largest NCAA tournament game crowd in the State of Texas. Game two is one that basketball fans have been waiting for quite some time. U-Conn and Duke. They were ranked 1 and 2 in the pre-season polls. And now meet for the chance to play for the championship Monday night. Injuries play a key role in this one. U-Conn All-American center Emeka Okafor has played through neck and back injuries in the tournament. Duke's Senior Chris Duhon has bruised ribs that have hampered his shooting and scoring abilities but not his leadership of this Blue Devil team. If Duke and Georgia Tech both advance to Monday, it'll mark the first time since 1988 that two teams from the same conference have played for the title. Larry Smith, CNN, San Antonio, Texas.
LIN: Now, I know athletes going pro are getting younger and younger. But look at Freddy Adu, the 14 year-old soccer phenom. He played his opening game for DC United today. Now he didn't score but he did make history. Adu is the youngest athlete to play in a major American professional league in more than a century and he says he's a natural.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FREDDY ADU, SOCCER PHENOM: It's a talent. You know? I was just chosen to do this and god gave me the talent and it was up to me to use it in the right way.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LIN: the right way, indeed. Adu was Major League Soccer's number one draft pick in January. By the way, DC United won today's game.
A story of abduction is exposed and now there are feelings of betrayal.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is just outrageous to make something up like this and lose credibility for all women on campus.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LIN: Students at the University of Wisconsin share what they think of the student that police say faked a kidnapping.
Did Martha Stewart's jury lie? Did a Tyco juror have a hidden agenda? Up next: how the jurors in major cases get picked and what the lawyers missed in these cases.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LIN: More news ahead, but first, here's a look at the hour's top stories. A police standoff outside Madrid, Spain, takes a deadly turn. Three suspected North African terrorists blew themselves up inside a building surrounded by police. Spain's interior minister says all the suspects were killed. One police officer also died in the blast. 11 others were wounded. The suspects may have had ties to last months train bombings in Madrid.
Iraqi police are investigating a deadly attack on one of their own. The police chief of a town south of Baghdad was shot and killed today by a man wearing an Iraqi police uniform. His driver was also killed in the attack. Investigators are unsure if the shooter was an Iraqi policeman or wearing the uniform as a disguise.
A French pharmaceutical firm is recalling thousands of doses of a human rabies vaccine it says could cause the deadly disease instead of preventing it. Aventis Pasteur acknowledges that a bulk of vaccine filter failed at its IMOVAX product manufacturing plant letting live virus into the lot.
Investigators say money was the apparent motive behind the abduction of a 9 year-old girl on Mercer Island, Washington. Christopher Larsen(ph) allegedly called the girl's family demanding ransom money. She was found yesterday riding inside an SUV after a high-speed police chase. Larsen(ph) is being held for attempted kidnapping.
And now to another of this week's stunning about-faces, the Tyco mistrial. The judge wanted a deadlocked jury to see it through to the end but he declared a mistrial after learning one of the jurors received a threatening letter. Our Alina Cho reports what was memorable about the trial was not what the jury focused on deliberations.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ALINA CHO, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The two-million dollar party on the Italian island of Sardinia. The $6,000 shower curtain. Those images became symbols of the Tyco trial played over and over in the media. But the jury never considered the allegations of conspicuous consumption in its 12 days of deliberations. That was revealed after the judge declared a mistrial.
GREG SUTTON, TYCO JUROR: In the grand scheme of things, these were little tiny parts of this case.
CHO: Juror Greg Sutton says he and the peers wanted to know, instead, if ex-CEO Dennis Kozlowski and former financial officer Mark Swartz used Tyco as their personal piggie bank. How much they spent, Sutton says was irrelevant.
SUTTON: This is the land of opportunity. I mean, more power to you. If you make $100 million a year and it's justified, congratulations. I would like to be in your shoes.
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: The question at the heart of this case always was: "Did the board authorize the payments to the defendants?" And the jury focused on that, not the amount of money or how they spent their money.
CHO: CNN Legal Analyst Jeffrey Toobin believes this is a case of the media focusing on salacious allegations.
TOOBIN: We in the news media clearly were just wrong about what the heart of this case was. We thought it was the shower curtain, the party in Sardinia and the jurors simply didn't care.
CHO: And on the streets of New York --
MAN ON THE STREETS: I think it would be a phallic ice statue in Sardinia was an image that resonates for sure.
CHO: What about the shower curtain?
MAN: Well, everyone has a $6,000 shower curtain, so that doesn't really bother me too much.
CHO: Kozloski and Swartz will likely be tried again on charges they looted Tyco of $600 million. But legal experts say a second trial will focus much less on lavish spending and much more on whether they were authorized to use the money in the first place.
Alina Cho, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LIN: Now in the movies, lawyers will do anything and I mean anything to win a trial. In Runaway Jury, Gene Hackman plays a ruthless jury consultant who hand picks the jurors 12 who will guarantee the verdict goes his way.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIIFED MALE: I don't like the looks of this one.
GENE HACKMAN, ACTOR: Ex-Marine drill instructor. These people are looking for a leader. They'll follow Frank Herrera.
GUY: And if they elect someone else foreman--
HACKMAN: Whoever they vote for will be following me just like in Cincinnati and Oakland and Pittsburgh. Gentlemen, trials are too important to be left up to juries.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LIN: Okay. Well, maybe Gene Hackman is a little over the top but one thing is true, lawyers will tell you picking the jury is one of the most critical aspects of a trial. Sanford Marks knows a lot about it, he is the president of TrialTech in Miami, Florida. It's a consulting firm specializing in litigation research and trial preparation. Sanford, I think you're nothing like the Gene Hackman character in the movie "Runaway Jury."
SANFORD MARKS, PRESIDENT OF TRIALTECH: No, I don't think so, Carol. I'm waiting for somebody to pay me $15 million to lose.
All right. Well, that's--the movie plot aside, let's talk about what happened in the Tyco case. Juror number 4. Obviously, raising a lot of questions over what went wrong in that trial. A woman who allegedly gave the okay sign to the defense table and apparently getting death threats and it's one of the reasons why the judge said, let's call it a day. Let me play you some remarks back from some of the other jurors on that panel as to what they said about her and her motivations.
MARKS: Sure.
LIN: All right. We don't have the sound right now but what they did say is at first they didn't think she had a pre-planned agenda and that she was taking sides in the case but then, towards the end, they thought she did. How is it--if that were to be the case, how is it that the attorneys who were picking the jurors might have missed that?
MARKS: Well, you know, it's one of those things, Carol, where jurors may or may not have an agenda. It's very difficult to uncover that during jury selection. You know, you do the best you can. In a high profile case, such as Tyco or any of the others, what you hope for is to obviously weed out these people who want their 15 minutes of fame and who will say anything to get on the jury.
LIN: Yeah. Or even draw attention to themselves. I mean, when you take a look at the celebrity culture in which we live now, jurors potentially could have a book, right? MARKS: That's right.
LIN: They could get paid interviews after the case. There's lots of incentives to sit ton high profile cases. So when you look at potential jurors, how much is analysis, How much is intuition? How do you weed out the whackos and the liars?
MARKS: Well, there is a certain level statistical level of analysis that we utilize, but, you know, really...
LIN: Well, like, give me an example. You're looking at somebody. What do you look for?
MARKS: Well, we're looking for people who are--well, let me back up. What I'm looking for are people who are going to be biased towards my client. You know, this whole premise of fair and impartial, it all sounds good. I want people who are going to support my client's position.
LIN: Okay. Let's say you represent Scott Peterson. And you want a jury to go your way. Who are you looking for?
MARKS: I'm looking for people in that particular case who are not emotional thinkers. I'm looking for people able to set aside their feelings that, "oh gee, I think he did it. The evidence seems like he did it." We need people in that kind of a trial who are able to put those emotions aside and resolve the case based on the evidence and its reasonable doubt. And it's only a very special group of intelligent jurors who understand reasonable doubt.
LIN: So how do you find a juror who--let's say if you're the prosecution in that case. Therefore your probably looking for a juror who might have some kind of agenda, right? Or personal experience, who is more emotional. What are the characteristics you look for when you're weaning through the pool?
MARKS: Well, you know, in that kind of a trial, you are looking for people who are really--when I say emotional thinkers, people who think from their hearts, from their guts. Not from their minds. You want people who believe in government, you want people, if I were, again, the prosecution. You want people who are going to trust government. Who are going to look at the case, look at the circumstantial evidence and say, "there's enough there for me to conclude, based on my emotion, again, that he is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt."
LIN: Then you make that pick. But take a look at the Martha Stewart case. Here is this guy who apparently lied on his jury application. Had been sued three times. Had a criminal record. How is it that both sides, the defense and the prosecution, missed this?
MARKS: Well, it wasn't on the questionnaire. So, you know, certainly, in reviewing these questions on a juror questionnaire, if you have to rely on the juror's honesty in what they're filling out on the questionnaire. Both sides missed it because there was no indication on the questionnaire that he said "Yes" to any of these questions.
LIN: Gotcha.
MARKS: It makes it very difficult.
LIN: right.
MARKS: And, again, that's the agenda. That's the agenda that intuitively you have to try to uncover.
LIN: In "Runaway Jury," granted, it's Hollywood, but in Runaway Jury, the Jury consultant actually tailed prospective jurors, took their pictures, researched their personal conversations--spied on them basically, the bottom line. Have you ever done anything like that?
MARKS: Never. And I don't know anyone that ever has. That's strictly Hollywood.
LIN: How much do you know about prospective jurors then?
MARKS: Well, we know what they tell us. We know that in a state court case, in many venues, lawyers are allowed to ask a lot of questions. In a federal case, most questioning is done by the court. Where there's a questionnaire we know more than in most jury selections and the questions are designed to try to uncover those biases and attitudes.
LIN: Well, it seems like more questions should have been asked in the Tyco case and the Martha Stewart case. And we'll see what happens with Scott Peterson. Jury selection...
MARKS: That was the problem of putting a lawyer on the jury.
Aired April 3, 2004 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CAROL LIN, CNN ANCHOR: A manhunt leads to a deadly blast in Madrid. Three suspected terrorists killed themselves and a policeman when they set off an explosion. 11 other police officers were wounded.
In Iraq, coalition forces have arrested the deputy of a powerful Shia. The cleric has said he condemns the United States. Hours later, thousands of Shia militia members put on a show of support for the outspoken cleric.
And in Texas, a jury is deliberating the fate of Deanna Laney. She is on trial for allegedly bludgeoning to death her two sons, ages 8 and 6. Laney has pleaded not guilty by reason of insanity. If convicted, she could get life in prison.
I'm Carol Lin and welcome to CNN LIVE SATURDAY. Coming up this hour, we saw it in the Tyco mistrial and the Martha Stewart case. What do the attorneys look for picking those jurors?
Also, is the fight for gay marriage the same as the fight for civil rights? African-Americans are torn on the issue and they could determine the fate of gay marriage. We have both sides live coming up.
But we begin right now in Spain. An intense manhunt for terrorism suspects leads to a deadly blast in a southern suburb of Madrid. Four people are dead. They include a policeman and the three terror suspects. CNN's Al Goodman joins us now by videophone from Madrid with the very latest there. Al, first, how did this start?
AL GOODMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (via videophone): Carol, the police cornered three suspects in the Madrid commuter train bombings, those bombings three weeks ago that killed 190 people and injured 1800. The police in this southern suburb called Leganes cornered them this Saturday. Shots were fired, and as the police moved in, there was a terrible explosion. This is how Spain's Interior Minister at a news conference a short while ago described the scene as the police closed in.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANGEL ACEBES, SPANISH INTERIOR MINISTER (through translator): At this very moment, I can truly say that it is three bodies of three alleged terrorists that may have sacrificed themselves, although there is--we have not given up the possibility that there might be somebody else as a result of this explosion. The police considers that some of the terrorists that have died after this explosion were some that were being sought by the armed forces as alleged authors of the massacre of March the 11th.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GOODMAN: As authored, the translator means to say that he meant the bombers, people that actually put the bombs on the trains that killed those and wounded those unsuspecting commuters.
Now, one police officer died also in the assault on that apartment in that southern suburb this Saturday. 11 others -- excuse me, Carol -- were injured.
All of this, officials say, is part of the ongoing investigation since the bombings in Madrid on the commuter trains and there have been several principle suspects, individuals in that investigation. And there's also a group that is considered a major suspect.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GOODMAN (voice-over): Spanish police now have a prime suspect in the Madrid commuter train bombings.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Investigators say the priority is a Moroccan Islamic Combatant Group. They're not ruling out other options but all signs point in that direction.
GOODMAN: The U.S. Government lists the Moroccan Combatant Group as a terrorist organization. Experts say it draws followers from Spain's large population of Moroccan immigrations.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They basically using the linkage, pre- existing linkage to each other, most of those people either lived with each other or family or childhood friends. And all of them, I guess, organizers of the Madrid bombing.
GOODMAN: Then there was the attempt to blow up a bullet train South of Madrid on Friday. A railway worker discovered the bomb and it was deactivated.
Was it the same Moroccan terrorist group? Some Spanish newspapers say, yes. But the interior minister says that's a premature conclusion even though he revealed the explosives used were exactly the same in both cases.
Eleven of the 15 suspects charged in the commuter train bombings are Moroccan, but there is also a Tunisian, this man, sought by police as a coordinator of the attacks.
Authorities say he helped this Moroccan man who's also wanted on an international arrest want rent a home just east of Madrid. The house is now empty but police found fingerprints, traces of explosives and other evidence they say incriminate several suspects.
Police say here the conspirators prepared the bombs which suddenly ripped apart commuter trains, destroyed lives and shook an entire nation.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GOODMAN: Carol, the latest scene in this investigation: that apartment standoff in the southern suburb of Leganes and police for the first time in this investigation seeing that some terrorist suspects choosing death rather than surrender -- Carol?
LIN: All right. Thank you very much, Al Goodman. A busy day for you.
And back here in the United States, the nation's transit systems are beefing up security. The government warned police across the country that terrorists may target buses and trains this summer. CNN's Elaine Quijano joins us now from Washington with more details. Elaine, how real do you think this threat is?
ELAINE QUIJANO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, difficult to say, Carol, but certainly federal law enforcement sources are cautioning that the information that prompted this so-called message of concern is uncorroborated.Now, that means it came from a single source and has not matched in the intelligence community.
Nevertheless, late this week, the FBI and the Department of Homeland Security sent police agencies and other agencies across the U.S. information about a possible terror plot targeting buses or rail lines this summer.
Now, specifically, according to this message, the possible plan calls for the use of improvised explosive devices perhaps made of ammonium nitrate and diesel fuel, also, according to the information, the explosives may be concealed in luggage and carry-on bags and might include duffel bags or backpacks.
Now, the information is very general. No specifics on where or when, only that an attack could happen this summer in a major American city.
Now, this message was not meant as a public announcement or a public warning and so far many passengers say they do not plan to alter their travel schedules.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE; You know, if somebody really wants to blow it up, you know, it's going to happen. But, you know, that's part of life. We all live with that every day. But overall, I would say I have a lot of confidence in our train system.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don't choose to live in fear like that. I think that you still have to keep living and I don't think that you can spend your time worrying about something that's going to happen.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
QUIJANO: Now, as far as the message, federal officials included suggestions to mass transit officials on beefing up security on public transportation systems: things like increasing patrols, using bomb- sniffing dogs, removing trash cans.
But many security measures are already in place. For example, here in Washington, Metro subway officials recently implemented a new campaign where passengers are asked to be pro-active if they see a suspicious or unattended bag.
So, all of this, meanwhile--the FBI today saying that they have no comment on this information. The nation's terror threat level, Carol, remains at yellow -- Carol.
LIN: All right. Thank you very much, Elaine.
Secretary of State Colin Powell now admits his critical testimony before the UN Security Council last year was based on flawed sources.
Powell testified last February about a month before the Iraq War began. For example, he said he had intelligence that Iraq had mobile production facilities for biological weapons.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COLIN POWELL, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: We have diagrammed what our sources reported about these mobile facilities. Here you see both truck- and rail car-mounted mobile factories. The description our sources gave us of the technical features required by such facilities are highly detailed and extremely accurate.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LIN: But, Colin Powell says it now appears that intelligence was not solid.
Our White House correspondent Dana Bash has more. Dana, these remarks, some of them came up while the secretary was actually returning from a NATO meeting in Brussels and talking with reporters.
DANA BASH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Carol. He was referring, of course to that 90-minute presentation that he gave. It was really the most high profile and detailed attempt by the U.S. to convince the UN and the world that it was important to go to war against Saddam Hussein.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
POWELL: ...to verify...
BASH (voice-over): As he made his case for war at the UN with the CIA director at the side, Secretary of State Colin Powell described as fact: Iraq has biological weapons factories on wheels.
POWELL: We know that Iraq has at least seven of the mobile biological agent factories.
BASH: Secretary Powell now concedes that what he called the most dramatic part of the presentation was based on flawed information. "Now it appears not to be the case that it was that solid, but at the time that I was preparing that presentation it was presented to me as being solid," Powell told reporters on a return flight from Europe.
It's a latest attempt to explain why the administrations main reason for war-Iraq's weapons of mass destruction has not panned out. And the latest example, now from Powell, who put the credibility on the line of blaming bad intelligence.
Trailers fitting Powell's description were found in Iraq after the war, but experts think they were to produce hydrogen for weather balloons.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is it your opinion that the consensus in the intelligence community now is that those are not biological weapons vans?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That is my personal judgment.
BASH: Powell says he highlighted the mobile labs, because he was given four sources of information to back it up. "I'm not the intelligence community, but I probed and I made sure and as I said in my presentation, these are multi-sourced," Powell said.
One year later, under fire, the CIA Director himself admitted some sources may have been wrong or even lying about bio-weapons trailers.
GEORGE TENET, CIA DIRECTOR: There is no consensus within our intelligence community today over whether the trailers were for that use or if they were used for the production of hydrogen.
KENNEHT POLLACK, CNN ANALYST: The intelligence was exaggerated on Iraq and we desperately need to reform the intelligence community to get at the source of those problems and this may have been the Secretary of State trying to prod an intelligence community that's been a little bit sluggish in doing so.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BASH: A CIA spokesman declined to comment beyond what Director Tenet said in February. And as for Secretary Powell, he said he hopes the commission appointed by President Bush appointed will help get to the bottom of why he may have been given faulty intelligence -- Carol.
LIN: Dana, is there much strategy behind Secretary Powell suddenly coming without the admission?
BASH: Well, you know, if you listen to what Secretary Powell and, frankly, other officials have been saying, we've slowly begun to hear them admit and really concede that what they heard from the intelligence community may not have been accurate, but Secretary Powell is obviously a specific and unique case because he did essentially put his credibility on the line.
He gave that presentation, the entire world was watching and he went to the CIA, poured over documents for four days and he said in this meeting with reporters on his plane that he thought that it was accurate. That is why he went out there and did that.
But it is clear even from the CIA Director last month that they really don't know if it's actually accurate. This is one of many examples of how they think that it's important to look into intelligence, Carol.
LIN: Thank you very much. Dana Bash live at the White House.
Two Iraqi police chiefs killed in 24 hours. The head of police in a town south of Baghdad was killed when a man in a police uniform stopped him to ask a question and then opened fire. The day before, insurgents killed a provincial police chief and his deputy in Najaf.
Now, military officials tell CNN the gruesome attack in Fallujah this past week may have been planned. They say the cities normally busy streets were empty and shops were closed just before the ambush. At the same time, a number of Iraqi media were in the area. Four U.S. security contractors were killed Wednesday, their bodies mutilated. CNN Analyst Ken Pollock says investigator have a tough job ahead of them.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KEN POLLOCK, CNN ANALYST: It's going to be very difficult for the United States to figure out exactly who did this and bring them to justice. Obviously, the U.S. needs to being doing so, needs to try it, but in truth, in a tribal town like Fallujah where there are enormous bonds of loyalty, where keeping quiet and not informing authorities about someone who did something like this is the prevailing attitude. It is going to be extremely difficult.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LIN: And here's another side of the story. No doubt about it, war correspondents know they could be maimed or killed on the job. But in Iraq, some journalists are raising questions about the extreme danger they face in U.S.-led war on terror. CNN's Barbara Starr has more.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BARBARA STARR, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In Baghdad, the Arab press made its anger known when Secretary of State Colin Powell began a press conference.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): We ask for an investigation, an open investigation before all of the media with the entity that committed this murder of the journalist.
STARR: And then, a walkout. Protesting the accidental shooting of two Arab journalists the day before by American soldiers at a check point.
POWELL: I respect the rights and privileges of the journalists who just left to express their feelings.
STARR: 24 journalists had been killed by Iraqi and insurgent fire since the war began more than a year ago. And at least six others accidentally killed by U.S. forces according to the Committee to Protect Journalists.
JOE CAMPAGNA, CMTE. TO PROTECT JOURNALISTS: Iraq is the most dangerous place to work in the world as a journalist. Journalists there today face myriad risks from shootings to suicide bombings to carjackings.
STARR: As civilians on the Iraq battlefield, journalists are vulnerable, as are contractors and civilians who recently have been killed. But reporters themselves are generally unarmed. Some news organizations have hired their own security. The traditional solution of marking press or TV: not the best idea in Iraq.
STEPHEN NARU, REUTERS: With the insurgent activity that's going on in that country right now, there are several journalists that believe taking that sort of a profile more endangers you.
STARR: Reuters cameraman Mazen Dana was killed at Abu Ghraib prison when he raised his camera and a soldier, who was not told reporters who were in the area, thought it was a grenade launcher according to a military investigation.
Soldiers told investigators that Dana, who was a Palestinian, looked to be an Iraqi national with, quote, "dark skin and dark hair." To avoid future tragedies, the Pentagon is considering credentialing reporters and improving training and communication between the military and the media, so everyone knows where reporters may be located.
(on camera): News organizations, contractors and private companies now all increasingly concerned that Iraq is becoming more violent and more unstable for their employees. Barbara Starr, CNN, the Pentagon.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LIN: Well, there was an early morning sign of relief but it wasn't enough. Parts of Colorado are still burning despite the wet weather.
And, was it an abuse of power or not? We're going to hear what the jurors have to say about the Tyco case.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LIN: Cool, wet weather is helping crews fight an 8700-acre wild fire west of Ft. Collins, Colorado. But residents of 140 homes in two subdivisions cannot go home yet. Firefighters estimate the blaze is about 30% contained.
And many Americans are remembering a monster tornado system that ripped through the South and Midwest 30 years ago today. A single storm spun off some 140 tornadoes from Alabama to Michigan. It killed more than 300 people. One savage twister destroyed much of downtown Xenia, Ohio.
And in Edwardsville, Kansas, just outside Kansas City, a paramedic and co-worker she was living with were apparently ambushed at their fire station. Both were found dead after they failed to respond to a call. Police have issued a warrant for the paramedic's ex-husband.
A baby is found in an alley alive in Bowling Green, Kentucky. A nurse's assistant is facing kidnapping charges. The baby girl was missing for more than five hours yesterday. Police say the suspect had been faking a pregnancy.
In Miami-Dade County, a panel from amusement ride falls off and seven people are hurt, one critically.
Still to come, it's game time in Texas right now. Up next, I'm going to take you to San Antonio where college basketball's Final Four are duking it out.
Plus, he's not old enough to drive. He's not even shaving yet. But that's not stopping his million dollar kick.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LIN: Right now, college basketball's semi-finals are underway in Texas. Georgia Tech and Oklahoma State are up first. They're going head to head at the Alamodome. And our Larry Smith is on assignment with the latest from San Antonio.
LARRY SMITH, CNN SPORTS CORRESPONDENT: Oklahoma State and Georgia Tech are now underway inside the Alamodome with more than 40,000 people inside. The largest NCAA tournament game crowd in the State of Texas. Game two is one that basketball fans have been waiting for quite some time. U-Conn and Duke. They were ranked 1 and 2 in the pre-season polls. And now meet for the chance to play for the championship Monday night. Injuries play a key role in this one. U-Conn All-American center Emeka Okafor has played through neck and back injuries in the tournament. Duke's Senior Chris Duhon has bruised ribs that have hampered his shooting and scoring abilities but not his leadership of this Blue Devil team. If Duke and Georgia Tech both advance to Monday, it'll mark the first time since 1988 that two teams from the same conference have played for the title. Larry Smith, CNN, San Antonio, Texas.
LIN: Now, I know athletes going pro are getting younger and younger. But look at Freddy Adu, the 14 year-old soccer phenom. He played his opening game for DC United today. Now he didn't score but he did make history. Adu is the youngest athlete to play in a major American professional league in more than a century and he says he's a natural.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FREDDY ADU, SOCCER PHENOM: It's a talent. You know? I was just chosen to do this and god gave me the talent and it was up to me to use it in the right way.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LIN: the right way, indeed. Adu was Major League Soccer's number one draft pick in January. By the way, DC United won today's game.
A story of abduction is exposed and now there are feelings of betrayal.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is just outrageous to make something up like this and lose credibility for all women on campus.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LIN: Students at the University of Wisconsin share what they think of the student that police say faked a kidnapping.
Did Martha Stewart's jury lie? Did a Tyco juror have a hidden agenda? Up next: how the jurors in major cases get picked and what the lawyers missed in these cases.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LIN: More news ahead, but first, here's a look at the hour's top stories. A police standoff outside Madrid, Spain, takes a deadly turn. Three suspected North African terrorists blew themselves up inside a building surrounded by police. Spain's interior minister says all the suspects were killed. One police officer also died in the blast. 11 others were wounded. The suspects may have had ties to last months train bombings in Madrid.
Iraqi police are investigating a deadly attack on one of their own. The police chief of a town south of Baghdad was shot and killed today by a man wearing an Iraqi police uniform. His driver was also killed in the attack. Investigators are unsure if the shooter was an Iraqi policeman or wearing the uniform as a disguise.
A French pharmaceutical firm is recalling thousands of doses of a human rabies vaccine it says could cause the deadly disease instead of preventing it. Aventis Pasteur acknowledges that a bulk of vaccine filter failed at its IMOVAX product manufacturing plant letting live virus into the lot.
Investigators say money was the apparent motive behind the abduction of a 9 year-old girl on Mercer Island, Washington. Christopher Larsen(ph) allegedly called the girl's family demanding ransom money. She was found yesterday riding inside an SUV after a high-speed police chase. Larsen(ph) is being held for attempted kidnapping.
And now to another of this week's stunning about-faces, the Tyco mistrial. The judge wanted a deadlocked jury to see it through to the end but he declared a mistrial after learning one of the jurors received a threatening letter. Our Alina Cho reports what was memorable about the trial was not what the jury focused on deliberations.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ALINA CHO, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The two-million dollar party on the Italian island of Sardinia. The $6,000 shower curtain. Those images became symbols of the Tyco trial played over and over in the media. But the jury never considered the allegations of conspicuous consumption in its 12 days of deliberations. That was revealed after the judge declared a mistrial.
GREG SUTTON, TYCO JUROR: In the grand scheme of things, these were little tiny parts of this case.
CHO: Juror Greg Sutton says he and the peers wanted to know, instead, if ex-CEO Dennis Kozlowski and former financial officer Mark Swartz used Tyco as their personal piggie bank. How much they spent, Sutton says was irrelevant.
SUTTON: This is the land of opportunity. I mean, more power to you. If you make $100 million a year and it's justified, congratulations. I would like to be in your shoes.
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: The question at the heart of this case always was: "Did the board authorize the payments to the defendants?" And the jury focused on that, not the amount of money or how they spent their money.
CHO: CNN Legal Analyst Jeffrey Toobin believes this is a case of the media focusing on salacious allegations.
TOOBIN: We in the news media clearly were just wrong about what the heart of this case was. We thought it was the shower curtain, the party in Sardinia and the jurors simply didn't care.
CHO: And on the streets of New York --
MAN ON THE STREETS: I think it would be a phallic ice statue in Sardinia was an image that resonates for sure.
CHO: What about the shower curtain?
MAN: Well, everyone has a $6,000 shower curtain, so that doesn't really bother me too much.
CHO: Kozloski and Swartz will likely be tried again on charges they looted Tyco of $600 million. But legal experts say a second trial will focus much less on lavish spending and much more on whether they were authorized to use the money in the first place.
Alina Cho, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LIN: Now in the movies, lawyers will do anything and I mean anything to win a trial. In Runaway Jury, Gene Hackman plays a ruthless jury consultant who hand picks the jurors 12 who will guarantee the verdict goes his way.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIIFED MALE: I don't like the looks of this one.
GENE HACKMAN, ACTOR: Ex-Marine drill instructor. These people are looking for a leader. They'll follow Frank Herrera.
GUY: And if they elect someone else foreman--
HACKMAN: Whoever they vote for will be following me just like in Cincinnati and Oakland and Pittsburgh. Gentlemen, trials are too important to be left up to juries.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LIN: Okay. Well, maybe Gene Hackman is a little over the top but one thing is true, lawyers will tell you picking the jury is one of the most critical aspects of a trial. Sanford Marks knows a lot about it, he is the president of TrialTech in Miami, Florida. It's a consulting firm specializing in litigation research and trial preparation. Sanford, I think you're nothing like the Gene Hackman character in the movie "Runaway Jury."
SANFORD MARKS, PRESIDENT OF TRIALTECH: No, I don't think so, Carol. I'm waiting for somebody to pay me $15 million to lose.
All right. Well, that's--the movie plot aside, let's talk about what happened in the Tyco case. Juror number 4. Obviously, raising a lot of questions over what went wrong in that trial. A woman who allegedly gave the okay sign to the defense table and apparently getting death threats and it's one of the reasons why the judge said, let's call it a day. Let me play you some remarks back from some of the other jurors on that panel as to what they said about her and her motivations.
MARKS: Sure.
LIN: All right. We don't have the sound right now but what they did say is at first they didn't think she had a pre-planned agenda and that she was taking sides in the case but then, towards the end, they thought she did. How is it--if that were to be the case, how is it that the attorneys who were picking the jurors might have missed that?
MARKS: Well, you know, it's one of those things, Carol, where jurors may or may not have an agenda. It's very difficult to uncover that during jury selection. You know, you do the best you can. In a high profile case, such as Tyco or any of the others, what you hope for is to obviously weed out these people who want their 15 minutes of fame and who will say anything to get on the jury.
LIN: Yeah. Or even draw attention to themselves. I mean, when you take a look at the celebrity culture in which we live now, jurors potentially could have a book, right? MARKS: That's right.
LIN: They could get paid interviews after the case. There's lots of incentives to sit ton high profile cases. So when you look at potential jurors, how much is analysis, How much is intuition? How do you weed out the whackos and the liars?
MARKS: Well, there is a certain level statistical level of analysis that we utilize, but, you know, really...
LIN: Well, like, give me an example. You're looking at somebody. What do you look for?
MARKS: Well, we're looking for people who are--well, let me back up. What I'm looking for are people who are going to be biased towards my client. You know, this whole premise of fair and impartial, it all sounds good. I want people who are going to support my client's position.
LIN: Okay. Let's say you represent Scott Peterson. And you want a jury to go your way. Who are you looking for?
MARKS: I'm looking for people in that particular case who are not emotional thinkers. I'm looking for people able to set aside their feelings that, "oh gee, I think he did it. The evidence seems like he did it." We need people in that kind of a trial who are able to put those emotions aside and resolve the case based on the evidence and its reasonable doubt. And it's only a very special group of intelligent jurors who understand reasonable doubt.
LIN: So how do you find a juror who--let's say if you're the prosecution in that case. Therefore your probably looking for a juror who might have some kind of agenda, right? Or personal experience, who is more emotional. What are the characteristics you look for when you're weaning through the pool?
MARKS: Well, you know, in that kind of a trial, you are looking for people who are really--when I say emotional thinkers, people who think from their hearts, from their guts. Not from their minds. You want people who believe in government, you want people, if I were, again, the prosecution. You want people who are going to trust government. Who are going to look at the case, look at the circumstantial evidence and say, "there's enough there for me to conclude, based on my emotion, again, that he is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt."
LIN: Then you make that pick. But take a look at the Martha Stewart case. Here is this guy who apparently lied on his jury application. Had been sued three times. Had a criminal record. How is it that both sides, the defense and the prosecution, missed this?
MARKS: Well, it wasn't on the questionnaire. So, you know, certainly, in reviewing these questions on a juror questionnaire, if you have to rely on the juror's honesty in what they're filling out on the questionnaire. Both sides missed it because there was no indication on the questionnaire that he said "Yes" to any of these questions.
LIN: Gotcha.
MARKS: It makes it very difficult.
LIN: right.
MARKS: And, again, that's the agenda. That's the agenda that intuitively you have to try to uncover.
LIN: In "Runaway Jury," granted, it's Hollywood, but in Runaway Jury, the Jury consultant actually tailed prospective jurors, took their pictures, researched their personal conversations--spied on them basically, the bottom line. Have you ever done anything like that?
MARKS: Never. And I don't know anyone that ever has. That's strictly Hollywood.
LIN: How much do you know about prospective jurors then?
MARKS: Well, we know what they tell us. We know that in a state court case, in many venues, lawyers are allowed to ask a lot of questions. In a federal case, most questioning is done by the court. Where there's a questionnaire we know more than in most jury selections and the questions are designed to try to uncover those biases and attitudes.
LIN: Well, it seems like more questions should have been asked in the Tyco case and the Martha Stewart case. And we'll see what happens with Scott Peterson. Jury selection...
MARKS: That was the problem of putting a lawyer on the jury.
