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CNN Live Saturday
Thousands Take To Streets In Protest Of Rantisi Death;
Aired April 17, 2004 - 15:01 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
FREDERICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: I want to go back to Paula Hancocks and see Paula you were able to learn any more information through your contacts about how this veichle exploded with Rantisi in it.
PAULA HANCOCKS, CNN CORRESPONDNET: Well Fredricka, we still have a official no comment from the Israelis side. They are not making any comments at all at the moment, farily unusual. But we do have some comment from Hamas itself of which the leader Rantisi was assassinated a little earlier on.
Hamas has said that it vows revenge for the assassination of Rantisi and it also says it won't be deterred in its struggle to destroy the Jewish state. So a very similar reaction to what we saw after the assassination of Sheikh Ahmed Yassin, the Hamas founder and spiritual leader, who was assassinated by the Israelis back in March 22.
Now thousands of Palestinians are out on the street in Gaza City. We're hearing half of the city has no electricity. Whether that was part of the explosion. It's being assumed it was, but we don't have confirmation of that. But there was a lot of anger on the streets of Gaza City at the moment, thousands are surrounding the car that Abdel Aziz Rantisi was in when it exploded. Whether or not that was a missile attack or whether or not it was a booby-trapped, we're still trying to find out. But at the moment, an official no comment from the Israeli side, Fredricka.
WHITFIELD: And Paula, do we know any more about that particular neighborhood, that particular street where this explosion took place? And knowing that, does that help in any way try to figure out whether it was indeed a booby-trap, whether there was room for a helicopter, missile attack, et cetera?
HANCOCKS: Well, it's very tricky to say. I mean we're hearing reports that it was actually very close to Abdel Aziz Rantisi's home. That he had just either just left his home or was about to go back into his home when he was in the car itself. The Gaza City is very densely populated. There is a tremendous amount of people there in a very small space. So it would be difficult to surmise really from that whether or not it would have been a booby-trapped car, whether there have been missile attacks. There have been missile attacks in Gaza City before.
Of course Sheikh Ahmed Yassin's assassination was in when he was Gaza City as well. And the fact that it is so densely populated means that there are inevitably by standers who are injured as well. In this particular attack we're hearing from Palestinian medical sources that ten people were wounded apart from Rantisi, who was killed, and two of his body bodyguards were killed as well. So it's very difficult to say whether or not this was a possible booby-trap or whether or not it was a missile strike. We're hearing reports as well from the ground there were helicopters heard in the air shortly after the attack on Rantisi. Whether or not it was a missile strike, we really have to wait and see the Israelis are still saying no comment. But as soon as we get a comment, I'll let you know, Fredricka.
WHITFIELD: Well Paula, what do you know about when Rantisi would go out and get around in a vehicle? Was he usually accompanied by at least one other vehicle? Or was it usually just one soul vehicle? What do we know about that?
HANCOCKS: To be honest, Abdel Aziz Rantisi has not been particularly high profile in the last couple of weeks or so. He knew he was a marked man, so he was keeping an extremely low profile. So from that, I would assume that he wouldn't have a tremendous amount of entourage with him. He would not want to draw attention to himself. Sources were telling us before this evening that Abdel Aziz Rantisi had gone underground, knowing what the Israelis had said, after Sheikh Ahmed Yassin's assassination, saying that he was a marked man.
And this isn't the first time that Israelis have targeted Abdel Aziz Rantisi, as your guest earlier was saying. The Israelis see him as a radical member of Hamas, and since he took over as leader, then inevitably he does become the number one target for Israeli so-called targeted killings for assassinations. Over the last few weeks or so, we really didn't see very much of him immediately after the Yassin assassination when Abdel Aziz Rantisi was promoted, if you like. He did hold a big conference at a football stadium surrounded by thousands of Hamas activists. Since then, we haven't seen very much of him at all. He had been keeping a low profile, Fredricka.
WHITFIELD: And he had been keeping a low profile, one you described a bit since the assassination of Yassin, that being one. And we heard from the analyst Fawaz Gerges just a moment ago too, that he felt certain, Rantisi did, and that the Israeli government meant it when they said that he was a marked man, that they were keeping a close watch on him. So that being given the case, it will be interesting to hear exactly where he was going or from where he was coming in order to be out and about today. And to consequently end up being an easy target.
HANCOCKS: That's right. Yes, the report saying that he was very close to his home when he was targeted in his car. It will be interesting to see where exactly he was going and the fact that he was going back to his home. Inevitably the Israelis are going to know that was his home. So it will be surprising if he was out and about. Obviously, he would take these assassination threats from the Israelis very seriously. They've tried it once before back in the beginning of last year.
They attempted to kill him as he was in his car at a traffic jam in the busy Gaza City. So the fact that they've tried it before, he knew that he was definitely a targeted man. He'd said in public he knew that he was a targeted man. So it will be interesting to see exactly what he was doing out and about. Fredricka.
WHITFIELD: Well, it wasn't that long ago you and I, Paula, were talking about a port bombing involving both Hamas and Al-Aqsa (ph) Martyrs brigade. So now I wonder is there any reaction coming from the Al-Aqsa (ph) Martyrs brigade on this assassination of Hamas leader Rantisi?
HANCOCKS: No. We don't have any reaction from them at the moment. But if you remember, just six, seven hours ago, this afternoon, this Saturday afternoon, there was a suicide bombing at the Erez Industrial Zone, which is the crossing just between Israel and Gaza. Now, that was a joint attack with Hamas and Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigade, which is affiliated with Yasser Arafat's Fafsa (ph) Movement.
Now, an Al-Aqsa source told us earlier on today before the Rantisi assassination, that their man had taken and carried out this suicide bombing and, in fact, there was supposed to be a second suicide bomber who was affiliated with Hamas, but they couldn't get through the security around the Erez Industrial Zone. So, yes, I mean, inevitably there has been more cooperation between these groups at the moment. But the fact is Rantisi's assassination will affect Hamas quite substantially. It really will weaken the leadership structure of Hamas. Fredricka.
WHITFIELD: And you talk about that dual cooperation with that Erez Industrial Zone. Is there a feeling, you know, from your reporting, now that you've been on the air with us for a couple of hours, that perhaps this attack of Rantisi was a direct retaliation from the Erez Industrial Zone? Or, in fact, it was something that was already planned and it was merely coincidental that there was a suicide bombing earlier today just hours ago?
HANCOCKS: It's very difficult to say. I mean, this sort of thing does happen quite a lot. There is a cycle of violence. There's a suicide bombing. There is a retaliatory attack. Even though the Israelis deny that this would be a retaliatory attack, this has happened in this sort of cycle of violence a lot in the past. I've spoken to a couple of experts on this in the past as well. They say it isn't necessarily a connection between a suicide attack and then inevitably a retaliation afterwards.
They follow these men. They know exactly where the wanted men are. And they will take the opportunity when the opportunity arises. They want to make sure there is not a great collateral damage, as it is called, or bystanders being wounded or killed as they are trying to target the man that they are wanting to target. So whether or not this is a retaliatory attack is a very difficult question to answer, and really it's only the Israelis that can answer that themselves. Fredricka.
WHITFIELD: Paula Hancocks thanks very much. I know you won't be going far. Because we'll be referring to you again on the latest information on this.
Meantime, on the telephone with us is Gideon Meier. He's the Israeli senior foreign ministry official. Who is joining us on the telephone now. With your latest information and reaction. Mr. Meier, Hamas has said quite pointedly that they have the right to retaliate, and Israeli government has yet to officially respond about this assassination attack. Are you able to give the response on behalf of Ariel Sharon for us?
GIDEON MEIER, ISRAELI FOREIGN MINISTRY (via telephone): Oh, yes. Absolutely. First of all, we have to understand -- and I hear all the reports of Paula Hancocks and others. We are not talking about retaliation. We are not in the business of retaliation. We are in the business of protecting the Israeli people from the vicious terror, which comes out from Hamas and Islamic Jihad. We are here to protect our people. We are here in the business of protecting the Israeli people and to make peace with our Palestinian neighbors.
In order to make peace, in order to talk peace with our neighbors we must first and foremost secure our people from this terrorism. We have to understand that this kind of terrorism, with the Hamas perpetrating against innocent Israelis. In the past 20 years, it's not something, which started yesterday.
It has nothing to do with the Erez terrorist attack today. It is a continuous wave of terrorism even at the peak of the negotiation, during the Oslo process; we were witnessing this kind of terror, which came out of Hamas.
Therefore, since the Palestinian authority is not standing by its obligation according to the road map to dismantle the infrastructure of terror, we have no choice.
WHITFIELD: Well when you say this is the latest example of protecting, you know, your people, this is retaliation then for what specifically?
MEIER: This is not retaliation. I just said we are not in the business...
WHITFIELD: What's the difference?
MEIER: Oh, there's a big difference. We are fighting terrorism. We have to understand Rantisi, who was targeted tonight, is not Mother Teresa. This is a man who is involved in terrorism. This is a man who was sending his suicide bombers on the Passover massacre exactly two years ago. This is a man who is sending his suicide bombers to coffee shops, to pizzeria's, to buses. This is a man, which has to be dead in order to prevent future terrorist attacks. We are not in the business of retaliation. We don't have time to retaliate. We have time to protect our people.
WHITFIELD: But does this exemplify what you were just saying as a continuous wave of terrorism, a continuous wave of violence?
MEIER: We are not talking about the wave of violence, we have to understand, this is something which Israel is exposed to since its inception. The Hamas is in the business of terrorism. The Hamas is part of a major international wave of terrorism along with the local al Qaeda. Hamas is part of the terrorist network of al Qaeda, which also perpetrated a major terrorist attack a few weeks ago.
It's the same network. They are all in the business of killing innocent people. And we have no time. We have to protect our people because, at the end of the day, my children, my grandchildren will have to live in peace with our neighbors. And this, we will be able to do only if there will be no terror.
WHITFIELD: Well Mr. Meier, can you give me a sense as to the planning of this assassination. We know Ariel Sharon has made it very clear, and other leaders of your government have made it very clear, that he was a marked man, Rantisi was, and that it wasn't out of the realm of possibility that he would be assassinated. So can you describe for me the build-up to today?
MEIER: Oh absolutely. First of all, there was a decision of the Israeli cabinet a few months ago already that every terrorist is a legitimate target for Israel. Somebody who is sending suicide bombers to kill innocent Israelis is a legitimate target for the government of Israel. Now we were waiting for the right and precise intelligence. Since we got it tonight, this is what we did. And let us remind -- let me remind you and your viewers that it's not the first time that Rantisi was a target. If we already did it, we tried to do it a few months ago. At that time, he managed to run away. This time we got him. And he and his followers must understand that, if they will continue this kind of terrorism against innocent Israelis, every one of them is a legitimate target.
WHITFIELD: And also an attempted assassination last June 10th. So in recent weeks he is known to have a very low profile, had not been seen leaving his residence. In this situation, what happened as to how your intelligence was able to locate him either leaving or going to his residence given that this just happened about a block away from his house, correct?
MEIER: I don't expect -- you don't expect me to give you the exact and precise way the Israeli security forces found out this intelligence. The fact is we have the intelligence. The fact is that he didn't have a low profile. He tried to protect himself usually they are going around surrounded by children and women because they know that our code of conduct is not to kill anyone who is surrounded by children because we have the moral of the Israeli idea is very high. We don't want to kill innocents.
WHITFIELD: So who do you think was with him this time as to why he was at this precise moment the target that you all were willing to take this time?
MEIER: To the best of my knowledge it was his bodyguards.
WHITFIELD: Now what? Yassin has been assassinated. Rantisi. Is it a matter of going down the line in Hamas to determine who would pick up the leadership now that Rantisi is out of the picture?
MEIER: We have two choices. Either the Palestinian authority will right away start to implement the road map for peace in the Middle East, or part of it is obviously to dismantle the infrastructure of terror. And if they will do it, we can go back to the negotiating table and start to talk about the business of peace making. If terrorism will continue and if the next leader of Hamas will continue to send a suicide bombers to Israel and to send a bombs, the homicide bombers to Israel, he will have the same fate as Rantisi and Yassin before.
WHITFIELD: I hope that you were able to hear, when we had Palestinian negotiator Saeb Erakat on the telephone with us a bit earlier, he as well as another analyst we had on the air, said that the Bush administration in its relationship with Ariel Sharon have essentially set the stage for something like this to happen, to give Israel the green light to carry out assassinations. Is that the directive that your government is feeling confident about?
MEIER: Absolutely not. I want to tell you something. I heard Saeb Erakat on CNN International. I cannot listen to the domestic. And I heard so many words. It's about time that Saeb Erakat instead of bombarding us with so many words will take action and start to fight terrorism. With words, you cannot stop terrorism. Israel is not getting a green light from everyone. We are making our decisions ourselves. We have a government. We have a cabinet. We have a democracy here. And the Israeli cabinet is the one who decided. We don't need to get any green light from anyone.
WHITFIELD: And, Mr. Meier now, with Hamas saying that it is vowing revenge, how does the Israeli government feel that it is one step ahead of that potential revenge or retaliatory strike now that Rantisi is dead?
MEIER: Again, I couldn't hear you. Could you please repeat the question?
WHITFIELD: Yes. Now that Hamas says that it vows revenge. That's their official response to the death of Rantisi. How does the Israeli government feel about being one step ahead of Hamas so that perhaps it can avert what may be a potential retaliatory strike?
MEIER: We have to understand the psyche here in the region. We're not talking about retaliatory. With Hamas, we do whatever it can to kill Israelis. No matter where or when, whether does during the peace process, no negotiation at all; they will try to do it all the time. The fact that we are witnessing in the past few months some calm is due to the very effective work of the Israeli defense forces, the fact the defense is preventing them to penetrate Israel.
We are high alert here. We have to understand, and I would like your viewers to understand, our security forces are preventing every day more and more suicide bombers. Just the other day, a woman yesterday, the day before, a woman 28 years old was on her way to commit suicide among the innocent Israelis in the city of Ariel. They're trying. They're only not succeeding because we are preventing it.
So they will continue to do it. We're not talking about retaliatory process. We are talking about a continuous effort and war of terrorism against Israelis. And we are here to defend ourselves. Whatever we are doing is out of self-defense. But there's one goal for the Israeli people here. It's to talk peace with our Palestinian neighbors. Because at the end of the day, the only way the two people will be able to live together is by talking face to face and bring about a legitimate and a real peace process which will bring tranquility to the region.
WHITFIELD: Well Mr. Meier, we know that in the past, and as early as today, the Al-Aqsa Martyrs brigade and Hamas have worked jointly. Earlier today, a suicide bombing that both groups are claiming responsibility. That given the case, are you treating these two militant organizations the same in that you have targeted Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigade leaders just as you have Hamas leaders?
MEIER: Every terrorist organization and the leaders of those terrorist organizations, and the terrorists themselves, those who are taking bombs, is a legitimate target of the government of Israel. Unfortunately, as I said at the beginning of this interview, we have no choice. We have to do it because we don't have right now a partner for peace because we have to protect our people.
We don't like to do it, but we were left without choice. And if they will continue to kill innocent Israelis here on the street, in the buses, in the shopping malls, we have no choice but to do it. But as I said before, thank god we are successful. Our security forces are preventing many of those attempts, and they're what anyone would have done instead of us. If the Americans would have been in this kind of situation like we or the Europeans who are now facing this kind of terrorism, we have no choice unfortunately.
WHITFIELD: Gideon Meier, Israeli senior foreign defense official. Thank you very much for joining us on the telephone with your thoughts.
MEIER: Thank you.
WHITFIELD: Again, you're seeing the video there. This really just might be the beginning all over again. Israel calls it retaliation, explaining the death of Rantisi of the Hamas group. Hamas now is vowing revenge. What role will the U.S. be playing in all of this? Let's go to the White House. Some reaction there with Elaine Quijano. Is there a direct response already coming from the White House on the assassination of Abdel Aziz Rantisi?
ELAINE QUIJANO, CNN CORRESPONDNET: Not yet, Fredricka. In fact we're still awaiting word from White House officials on developments in the Middle East. I can tell you a short time ago about 45 minutes or so ago I spoke with a state department official who said at this point there is no official reaction. This official telling me that they will not even confirm if, in fact, this death had occurred. This official saying that they are is still in the process of seeing if there will be an official reaction statement to pass along. But this development comes on the heels of a visit this week by Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon to the White House, a meeting that he had with President Bush to discuss the proposed withdrawal plan, Israeli withdrawal plan from the Gaza strip and parts of the West Bank. President Bush wholeheartedly endorsing that plan, however making the caveat that that plan would have to fit within the framework of the so-called road map to peace, in which President Bush sees both a Palestinian state as well as an Israeli state co-existing side by side. Palestinians, however, did not respond well to that endorsement. In fact, one of the main issues being right of return for Palestinian refugees. The issues certainly very volatile, and now the White House is sure to be monitoring events very closely. President Bush now at Camp David. Still though awaiting official response, official reaction from the White House to the developments in the Middle East.
Fredricka.
WHITFIELD: And in fact, Elaine, you probably got a chance to hear Gideon Meier as well as Saeb Erakat and an analyst earlier, who were all saying there just may have been a green light given by the Bush White House on its most recent talks with Ariel Sharon. So Elaine Quijano thanks very much for that report coming from the White House.
Let's get more reaction now on what is a developing story out of Gaza City. Danny Ayalon, who is the Israeli Ambassador to the U.S., he's on the telephone with us now. And we know now Mr. Ayalon what's being confirmed to us, that it was an Israeli air strike hitting the vehicle in which Abdel Aziz Rantisi was in, the Hamas leader leading to his death. Your reaction?
DANIEL AYALON, ISRAELI AMBASSABDOR TO U.S., (VIA TELEPHONE): Well, this was a classic action of self-defense within the, I would say, continuous efforts to fight terrorism. Just last week, Prime Minister Sharon had a peace offering for the Palestinians, about leaving the area, giving them for the first time in history land and territory, uprooting Jewish communities. And the response of Hamas unfortunately was more terror, as we saw this morning.
We had a suicide bombing in the Erez crossing. Just yesterday another woman was caught, lucky, with 25 kilograms six pounds of explosives. And they are relentless in the terrorist activities. So we have to keep defending ourselves. The final analysis is this will help the peace. This will help create less violence. And certainly in light that we are preparing and willing to evacuate Gaza. It is very important that what is left behind is not a terroratorial (UNINTELLIGIBLE) with Hamas controls, and what we did today would be hopefully seen as a move to quiet things. And I hope that the terrorists once and for all will realize they cannot continue through their barbaric activities.
WHITFIELD: Mr. Ayalon, let me ask you, doesn't it seem contradictory to still be talking about hope in the peace plan when there is this back and forth, you know strike of violence? And one side calls it retaliation. The other one calls it revenge. It doesn't seem like there would -- this is promoting any type of hope for any kind of future talks on the current peace plan.
AYALONE: Well, terrorism continues, and they target men and women and school buses and kindergarten. And they say that they are vowed to keep the terrorism. We made some peace offerings. We made some gestures. We are willing to leave Gaza, and we will leave Gaza. But we cannot afford, keeping with these peace offerings and suffer casualties. And they say that on their credo. On their manifesto is destruction, and they are doing it. The only logical and moral and practical way is to preempt, stop them.
You do it by going not after the individual terrorists, but also the masterminds, the ones who dispatch them, the ones who inspire them, the ones who finance them, like Rantisi today. And as we will leave Gaza and we are committed to the promises we made -- it is very important what is left behind is not a territory of Hamas and Hezbollah which they join forces, but the less terrorists there are there, the better chance for a better future.
WHITFIELD: Danny Ayalone, the Israeli Ambassador to the U.S., thanks very much for joining us.
AYALON: Thank you.
WHITFIELD: Just to quickly recap for you Hamas said it vows revenge following the assassination of Hamas leader Abdel Aziz Rantisi. That taking place in Gaza City not long ago, just a few hours ago. He apparently had been keeping a fairly low profile over the past couple of weeks, particularly after at least two reported assassination attempts by the Israeli government. And the Israeli government had made it very clear it most recently that he was indeed a marked man.
And this, of course this assassination now coming shortly after the assassination of the spiritual leader Yassin. All we do know right now, as it pertains to the explosion of the vehicle that Rantisi was in, that it appears now that it was hit by an Israeli helicopter air strike. And it took place apparently just about one block away from Rantisi's home, but we don't know where he was going to or where coming from. We only know it took place about a block from his home. And in the streets there in Gaza City, where the debris of his vehicle still remains, thousands of people have poured into that city, all vowing revenge and showing their emotional disgust and anger over the assassination.
Another big story we're following for you, this one taking place right here in the United States. Just on the border of North Dakota and Minnesota, police confirm with CNN finding the body and evidence surrounding the death of 22-year-old Dru Sjodin. She's the University of North Dakota student who had been missing since last November. It was November 22nd when she was last heard from after leaving work, after leaving a shopping mall.
She was in the parking lot of the shopping mall. On the cell phone talking to her boyfriend, when suddenly she was interrupted, apparently on that telephone call, and the phone went dead. An intense search for her has been ongoing ever since, involving some of her college students, her friends, her family members, and law enforcement of many jurisdictions. After an exhaustive search, now investigators have been led to an area called Red Lake just outside of Crookston, Minnesota, and there they have what we believe to be found evidence and possibly even the body of 22-year-old Dru Sjodin. Five months after her disappearance. Police are expecting to have a press conference later on today at 4:00 p.m. Eastern Time, 3:00 Central. And of course, CNN will be covering that for you live. And it had been reported earlier that the sheriff, who had first revealed this information about finding the body, was very broken up. Almost as though losing and finding out information about the loss of one of his own family members.
This search had become that personal for so many people involved in the search for Dru Sjodin. We're continuing to follow that breaking story as well as the breaking story in the Middle East for you right here on CNN. We'll be right back.
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Aired April 17, 2004 - 15:01 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
FREDERICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: I want to go back to Paula Hancocks and see Paula you were able to learn any more information through your contacts about how this veichle exploded with Rantisi in it.
PAULA HANCOCKS, CNN CORRESPONDNET: Well Fredricka, we still have a official no comment from the Israelis side. They are not making any comments at all at the moment, farily unusual. But we do have some comment from Hamas itself of which the leader Rantisi was assassinated a little earlier on.
Hamas has said that it vows revenge for the assassination of Rantisi and it also says it won't be deterred in its struggle to destroy the Jewish state. So a very similar reaction to what we saw after the assassination of Sheikh Ahmed Yassin, the Hamas founder and spiritual leader, who was assassinated by the Israelis back in March 22.
Now thousands of Palestinians are out on the street in Gaza City. We're hearing half of the city has no electricity. Whether that was part of the explosion. It's being assumed it was, but we don't have confirmation of that. But there was a lot of anger on the streets of Gaza City at the moment, thousands are surrounding the car that Abdel Aziz Rantisi was in when it exploded. Whether or not that was a missile attack or whether or not it was a booby-trapped, we're still trying to find out. But at the moment, an official no comment from the Israeli side, Fredricka.
WHITFIELD: And Paula, do we know any more about that particular neighborhood, that particular street where this explosion took place? And knowing that, does that help in any way try to figure out whether it was indeed a booby-trap, whether there was room for a helicopter, missile attack, et cetera?
HANCOCKS: Well, it's very tricky to say. I mean we're hearing reports that it was actually very close to Abdel Aziz Rantisi's home. That he had just either just left his home or was about to go back into his home when he was in the car itself. The Gaza City is very densely populated. There is a tremendous amount of people there in a very small space. So it would be difficult to surmise really from that whether or not it would have been a booby-trapped car, whether there have been missile attacks. There have been missile attacks in Gaza City before.
Of course Sheikh Ahmed Yassin's assassination was in when he was Gaza City as well. And the fact that it is so densely populated means that there are inevitably by standers who are injured as well. In this particular attack we're hearing from Palestinian medical sources that ten people were wounded apart from Rantisi, who was killed, and two of his body bodyguards were killed as well. So it's very difficult to say whether or not this was a possible booby-trap or whether or not it was a missile strike. We're hearing reports as well from the ground there were helicopters heard in the air shortly after the attack on Rantisi. Whether or not it was a missile strike, we really have to wait and see the Israelis are still saying no comment. But as soon as we get a comment, I'll let you know, Fredricka.
WHITFIELD: Well Paula, what do you know about when Rantisi would go out and get around in a vehicle? Was he usually accompanied by at least one other vehicle? Or was it usually just one soul vehicle? What do we know about that?
HANCOCKS: To be honest, Abdel Aziz Rantisi has not been particularly high profile in the last couple of weeks or so. He knew he was a marked man, so he was keeping an extremely low profile. So from that, I would assume that he wouldn't have a tremendous amount of entourage with him. He would not want to draw attention to himself. Sources were telling us before this evening that Abdel Aziz Rantisi had gone underground, knowing what the Israelis had said, after Sheikh Ahmed Yassin's assassination, saying that he was a marked man.
And this isn't the first time that Israelis have targeted Abdel Aziz Rantisi, as your guest earlier was saying. The Israelis see him as a radical member of Hamas, and since he took over as leader, then inevitably he does become the number one target for Israeli so-called targeted killings for assassinations. Over the last few weeks or so, we really didn't see very much of him immediately after the Yassin assassination when Abdel Aziz Rantisi was promoted, if you like. He did hold a big conference at a football stadium surrounded by thousands of Hamas activists. Since then, we haven't seen very much of him at all. He had been keeping a low profile, Fredricka.
WHITFIELD: And he had been keeping a low profile, one you described a bit since the assassination of Yassin, that being one. And we heard from the analyst Fawaz Gerges just a moment ago too, that he felt certain, Rantisi did, and that the Israeli government meant it when they said that he was a marked man, that they were keeping a close watch on him. So that being given the case, it will be interesting to hear exactly where he was going or from where he was coming in order to be out and about today. And to consequently end up being an easy target.
HANCOCKS: That's right. Yes, the report saying that he was very close to his home when he was targeted in his car. It will be interesting to see where exactly he was going and the fact that he was going back to his home. Inevitably the Israelis are going to know that was his home. So it will be surprising if he was out and about. Obviously, he would take these assassination threats from the Israelis very seriously. They've tried it once before back in the beginning of last year.
They attempted to kill him as he was in his car at a traffic jam in the busy Gaza City. So the fact that they've tried it before, he knew that he was definitely a targeted man. He'd said in public he knew that he was a targeted man. So it will be interesting to see exactly what he was doing out and about. Fredricka.
WHITFIELD: Well, it wasn't that long ago you and I, Paula, were talking about a port bombing involving both Hamas and Al-Aqsa (ph) Martyrs brigade. So now I wonder is there any reaction coming from the Al-Aqsa (ph) Martyrs brigade on this assassination of Hamas leader Rantisi?
HANCOCKS: No. We don't have any reaction from them at the moment. But if you remember, just six, seven hours ago, this afternoon, this Saturday afternoon, there was a suicide bombing at the Erez Industrial Zone, which is the crossing just between Israel and Gaza. Now, that was a joint attack with Hamas and Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigade, which is affiliated with Yasser Arafat's Fafsa (ph) Movement.
Now, an Al-Aqsa source told us earlier on today before the Rantisi assassination, that their man had taken and carried out this suicide bombing and, in fact, there was supposed to be a second suicide bomber who was affiliated with Hamas, but they couldn't get through the security around the Erez Industrial Zone. So, yes, I mean, inevitably there has been more cooperation between these groups at the moment. But the fact is Rantisi's assassination will affect Hamas quite substantially. It really will weaken the leadership structure of Hamas. Fredricka.
WHITFIELD: And you talk about that dual cooperation with that Erez Industrial Zone. Is there a feeling, you know, from your reporting, now that you've been on the air with us for a couple of hours, that perhaps this attack of Rantisi was a direct retaliation from the Erez Industrial Zone? Or, in fact, it was something that was already planned and it was merely coincidental that there was a suicide bombing earlier today just hours ago?
HANCOCKS: It's very difficult to say. I mean, this sort of thing does happen quite a lot. There is a cycle of violence. There's a suicide bombing. There is a retaliatory attack. Even though the Israelis deny that this would be a retaliatory attack, this has happened in this sort of cycle of violence a lot in the past. I've spoken to a couple of experts on this in the past as well. They say it isn't necessarily a connection between a suicide attack and then inevitably a retaliation afterwards.
They follow these men. They know exactly where the wanted men are. And they will take the opportunity when the opportunity arises. They want to make sure there is not a great collateral damage, as it is called, or bystanders being wounded or killed as they are trying to target the man that they are wanting to target. So whether or not this is a retaliatory attack is a very difficult question to answer, and really it's only the Israelis that can answer that themselves. Fredricka.
WHITFIELD: Paula Hancocks thanks very much. I know you won't be going far. Because we'll be referring to you again on the latest information on this.
Meantime, on the telephone with us is Gideon Meier. He's the Israeli senior foreign ministry official. Who is joining us on the telephone now. With your latest information and reaction. Mr. Meier, Hamas has said quite pointedly that they have the right to retaliate, and Israeli government has yet to officially respond about this assassination attack. Are you able to give the response on behalf of Ariel Sharon for us?
GIDEON MEIER, ISRAELI FOREIGN MINISTRY (via telephone): Oh, yes. Absolutely. First of all, we have to understand -- and I hear all the reports of Paula Hancocks and others. We are not talking about retaliation. We are not in the business of retaliation. We are in the business of protecting the Israeli people from the vicious terror, which comes out from Hamas and Islamic Jihad. We are here to protect our people. We are here in the business of protecting the Israeli people and to make peace with our Palestinian neighbors.
In order to make peace, in order to talk peace with our neighbors we must first and foremost secure our people from this terrorism. We have to understand that this kind of terrorism, with the Hamas perpetrating against innocent Israelis. In the past 20 years, it's not something, which started yesterday.
It has nothing to do with the Erez terrorist attack today. It is a continuous wave of terrorism even at the peak of the negotiation, during the Oslo process; we were witnessing this kind of terror, which came out of Hamas.
Therefore, since the Palestinian authority is not standing by its obligation according to the road map to dismantle the infrastructure of terror, we have no choice.
WHITFIELD: Well when you say this is the latest example of protecting, you know, your people, this is retaliation then for what specifically?
MEIER: This is not retaliation. I just said we are not in the business...
WHITFIELD: What's the difference?
MEIER: Oh, there's a big difference. We are fighting terrorism. We have to understand Rantisi, who was targeted tonight, is not Mother Teresa. This is a man who is involved in terrorism. This is a man who was sending his suicide bombers on the Passover massacre exactly two years ago. This is a man who is sending his suicide bombers to coffee shops, to pizzeria's, to buses. This is a man, which has to be dead in order to prevent future terrorist attacks. We are not in the business of retaliation. We don't have time to retaliate. We have time to protect our people.
WHITFIELD: But does this exemplify what you were just saying as a continuous wave of terrorism, a continuous wave of violence?
MEIER: We are not talking about the wave of violence, we have to understand, this is something which Israel is exposed to since its inception. The Hamas is in the business of terrorism. The Hamas is part of a major international wave of terrorism along with the local al Qaeda. Hamas is part of the terrorist network of al Qaeda, which also perpetrated a major terrorist attack a few weeks ago.
It's the same network. They are all in the business of killing innocent people. And we have no time. We have to protect our people because, at the end of the day, my children, my grandchildren will have to live in peace with our neighbors. And this, we will be able to do only if there will be no terror.
WHITFIELD: Well Mr. Meier, can you give me a sense as to the planning of this assassination. We know Ariel Sharon has made it very clear, and other leaders of your government have made it very clear, that he was a marked man, Rantisi was, and that it wasn't out of the realm of possibility that he would be assassinated. So can you describe for me the build-up to today?
MEIER: Oh absolutely. First of all, there was a decision of the Israeli cabinet a few months ago already that every terrorist is a legitimate target for Israel. Somebody who is sending suicide bombers to kill innocent Israelis is a legitimate target for the government of Israel. Now we were waiting for the right and precise intelligence. Since we got it tonight, this is what we did. And let us remind -- let me remind you and your viewers that it's not the first time that Rantisi was a target. If we already did it, we tried to do it a few months ago. At that time, he managed to run away. This time we got him. And he and his followers must understand that, if they will continue this kind of terrorism against innocent Israelis, every one of them is a legitimate target.
WHITFIELD: And also an attempted assassination last June 10th. So in recent weeks he is known to have a very low profile, had not been seen leaving his residence. In this situation, what happened as to how your intelligence was able to locate him either leaving or going to his residence given that this just happened about a block away from his house, correct?
MEIER: I don't expect -- you don't expect me to give you the exact and precise way the Israeli security forces found out this intelligence. The fact is we have the intelligence. The fact is that he didn't have a low profile. He tried to protect himself usually they are going around surrounded by children and women because they know that our code of conduct is not to kill anyone who is surrounded by children because we have the moral of the Israeli idea is very high. We don't want to kill innocents.
WHITFIELD: So who do you think was with him this time as to why he was at this precise moment the target that you all were willing to take this time?
MEIER: To the best of my knowledge it was his bodyguards.
WHITFIELD: Now what? Yassin has been assassinated. Rantisi. Is it a matter of going down the line in Hamas to determine who would pick up the leadership now that Rantisi is out of the picture?
MEIER: We have two choices. Either the Palestinian authority will right away start to implement the road map for peace in the Middle East, or part of it is obviously to dismantle the infrastructure of terror. And if they will do it, we can go back to the negotiating table and start to talk about the business of peace making. If terrorism will continue and if the next leader of Hamas will continue to send a suicide bombers to Israel and to send a bombs, the homicide bombers to Israel, he will have the same fate as Rantisi and Yassin before.
WHITFIELD: I hope that you were able to hear, when we had Palestinian negotiator Saeb Erakat on the telephone with us a bit earlier, he as well as another analyst we had on the air, said that the Bush administration in its relationship with Ariel Sharon have essentially set the stage for something like this to happen, to give Israel the green light to carry out assassinations. Is that the directive that your government is feeling confident about?
MEIER: Absolutely not. I want to tell you something. I heard Saeb Erakat on CNN International. I cannot listen to the domestic. And I heard so many words. It's about time that Saeb Erakat instead of bombarding us with so many words will take action and start to fight terrorism. With words, you cannot stop terrorism. Israel is not getting a green light from everyone. We are making our decisions ourselves. We have a government. We have a cabinet. We have a democracy here. And the Israeli cabinet is the one who decided. We don't need to get any green light from anyone.
WHITFIELD: And, Mr. Meier now, with Hamas saying that it is vowing revenge, how does the Israeli government feel that it is one step ahead of that potential revenge or retaliatory strike now that Rantisi is dead?
MEIER: Again, I couldn't hear you. Could you please repeat the question?
WHITFIELD: Yes. Now that Hamas says that it vows revenge. That's their official response to the death of Rantisi. How does the Israeli government feel about being one step ahead of Hamas so that perhaps it can avert what may be a potential retaliatory strike?
MEIER: We have to understand the psyche here in the region. We're not talking about retaliatory. With Hamas, we do whatever it can to kill Israelis. No matter where or when, whether does during the peace process, no negotiation at all; they will try to do it all the time. The fact that we are witnessing in the past few months some calm is due to the very effective work of the Israeli defense forces, the fact the defense is preventing them to penetrate Israel.
We are high alert here. We have to understand, and I would like your viewers to understand, our security forces are preventing every day more and more suicide bombers. Just the other day, a woman yesterday, the day before, a woman 28 years old was on her way to commit suicide among the innocent Israelis in the city of Ariel. They're trying. They're only not succeeding because we are preventing it.
So they will continue to do it. We're not talking about retaliatory process. We are talking about a continuous effort and war of terrorism against Israelis. And we are here to defend ourselves. Whatever we are doing is out of self-defense. But there's one goal for the Israeli people here. It's to talk peace with our Palestinian neighbors. Because at the end of the day, the only way the two people will be able to live together is by talking face to face and bring about a legitimate and a real peace process which will bring tranquility to the region.
WHITFIELD: Well Mr. Meier, we know that in the past, and as early as today, the Al-Aqsa Martyrs brigade and Hamas have worked jointly. Earlier today, a suicide bombing that both groups are claiming responsibility. That given the case, are you treating these two militant organizations the same in that you have targeted Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigade leaders just as you have Hamas leaders?
MEIER: Every terrorist organization and the leaders of those terrorist organizations, and the terrorists themselves, those who are taking bombs, is a legitimate target of the government of Israel. Unfortunately, as I said at the beginning of this interview, we have no choice. We have to do it because we don't have right now a partner for peace because we have to protect our people.
We don't like to do it, but we were left without choice. And if they will continue to kill innocent Israelis here on the street, in the buses, in the shopping malls, we have no choice but to do it. But as I said before, thank god we are successful. Our security forces are preventing many of those attempts, and they're what anyone would have done instead of us. If the Americans would have been in this kind of situation like we or the Europeans who are now facing this kind of terrorism, we have no choice unfortunately.
WHITFIELD: Gideon Meier, Israeli senior foreign defense official. Thank you very much for joining us on the telephone with your thoughts.
MEIER: Thank you.
WHITFIELD: Again, you're seeing the video there. This really just might be the beginning all over again. Israel calls it retaliation, explaining the death of Rantisi of the Hamas group. Hamas now is vowing revenge. What role will the U.S. be playing in all of this? Let's go to the White House. Some reaction there with Elaine Quijano. Is there a direct response already coming from the White House on the assassination of Abdel Aziz Rantisi?
ELAINE QUIJANO, CNN CORRESPONDNET: Not yet, Fredricka. In fact we're still awaiting word from White House officials on developments in the Middle East. I can tell you a short time ago about 45 minutes or so ago I spoke with a state department official who said at this point there is no official reaction. This official telling me that they will not even confirm if, in fact, this death had occurred. This official saying that they are is still in the process of seeing if there will be an official reaction statement to pass along. But this development comes on the heels of a visit this week by Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon to the White House, a meeting that he had with President Bush to discuss the proposed withdrawal plan, Israeli withdrawal plan from the Gaza strip and parts of the West Bank. President Bush wholeheartedly endorsing that plan, however making the caveat that that plan would have to fit within the framework of the so-called road map to peace, in which President Bush sees both a Palestinian state as well as an Israeli state co-existing side by side. Palestinians, however, did not respond well to that endorsement. In fact, one of the main issues being right of return for Palestinian refugees. The issues certainly very volatile, and now the White House is sure to be monitoring events very closely. President Bush now at Camp David. Still though awaiting official response, official reaction from the White House to the developments in the Middle East.
Fredricka.
WHITFIELD: And in fact, Elaine, you probably got a chance to hear Gideon Meier as well as Saeb Erakat and an analyst earlier, who were all saying there just may have been a green light given by the Bush White House on its most recent talks with Ariel Sharon. So Elaine Quijano thanks very much for that report coming from the White House.
Let's get more reaction now on what is a developing story out of Gaza City. Danny Ayalon, who is the Israeli Ambassador to the U.S., he's on the telephone with us now. And we know now Mr. Ayalon what's being confirmed to us, that it was an Israeli air strike hitting the vehicle in which Abdel Aziz Rantisi was in, the Hamas leader leading to his death. Your reaction?
DANIEL AYALON, ISRAELI AMBASSABDOR TO U.S., (VIA TELEPHONE): Well, this was a classic action of self-defense within the, I would say, continuous efforts to fight terrorism. Just last week, Prime Minister Sharon had a peace offering for the Palestinians, about leaving the area, giving them for the first time in history land and territory, uprooting Jewish communities. And the response of Hamas unfortunately was more terror, as we saw this morning.
We had a suicide bombing in the Erez crossing. Just yesterday another woman was caught, lucky, with 25 kilograms six pounds of explosives. And they are relentless in the terrorist activities. So we have to keep defending ourselves. The final analysis is this will help the peace. This will help create less violence. And certainly in light that we are preparing and willing to evacuate Gaza. It is very important that what is left behind is not a terroratorial (UNINTELLIGIBLE) with Hamas controls, and what we did today would be hopefully seen as a move to quiet things. And I hope that the terrorists once and for all will realize they cannot continue through their barbaric activities.
WHITFIELD: Mr. Ayalon, let me ask you, doesn't it seem contradictory to still be talking about hope in the peace plan when there is this back and forth, you know strike of violence? And one side calls it retaliation. The other one calls it revenge. It doesn't seem like there would -- this is promoting any type of hope for any kind of future talks on the current peace plan.
AYALONE: Well, terrorism continues, and they target men and women and school buses and kindergarten. And they say that they are vowed to keep the terrorism. We made some peace offerings. We made some gestures. We are willing to leave Gaza, and we will leave Gaza. But we cannot afford, keeping with these peace offerings and suffer casualties. And they say that on their credo. On their manifesto is destruction, and they are doing it. The only logical and moral and practical way is to preempt, stop them.
You do it by going not after the individual terrorists, but also the masterminds, the ones who dispatch them, the ones who inspire them, the ones who finance them, like Rantisi today. And as we will leave Gaza and we are committed to the promises we made -- it is very important what is left behind is not a territory of Hamas and Hezbollah which they join forces, but the less terrorists there are there, the better chance for a better future.
WHITFIELD: Danny Ayalone, the Israeli Ambassador to the U.S., thanks very much for joining us.
AYALON: Thank you.
WHITFIELD: Just to quickly recap for you Hamas said it vows revenge following the assassination of Hamas leader Abdel Aziz Rantisi. That taking place in Gaza City not long ago, just a few hours ago. He apparently had been keeping a fairly low profile over the past couple of weeks, particularly after at least two reported assassination attempts by the Israeli government. And the Israeli government had made it very clear it most recently that he was indeed a marked man.
And this, of course this assassination now coming shortly after the assassination of the spiritual leader Yassin. All we do know right now, as it pertains to the explosion of the vehicle that Rantisi was in, that it appears now that it was hit by an Israeli helicopter air strike. And it took place apparently just about one block away from Rantisi's home, but we don't know where he was going to or where coming from. We only know it took place about a block from his home. And in the streets there in Gaza City, where the debris of his vehicle still remains, thousands of people have poured into that city, all vowing revenge and showing their emotional disgust and anger over the assassination.
Another big story we're following for you, this one taking place right here in the United States. Just on the border of North Dakota and Minnesota, police confirm with CNN finding the body and evidence surrounding the death of 22-year-old Dru Sjodin. She's the University of North Dakota student who had been missing since last November. It was November 22nd when she was last heard from after leaving work, after leaving a shopping mall.
She was in the parking lot of the shopping mall. On the cell phone talking to her boyfriend, when suddenly she was interrupted, apparently on that telephone call, and the phone went dead. An intense search for her has been ongoing ever since, involving some of her college students, her friends, her family members, and law enforcement of many jurisdictions. After an exhaustive search, now investigators have been led to an area called Red Lake just outside of Crookston, Minnesota, and there they have what we believe to be found evidence and possibly even the body of 22-year-old Dru Sjodin. Five months after her disappearance. Police are expecting to have a press conference later on today at 4:00 p.m. Eastern Time, 3:00 Central. And of course, CNN will be covering that for you live. And it had been reported earlier that the sheriff, who had first revealed this information about finding the body, was very broken up. Almost as though losing and finding out information about the loss of one of his own family members.
This search had become that personal for so many people involved in the search for Dru Sjodin. We're continuing to follow that breaking story as well as the breaking story in the Middle East for you right here on CNN. We'll be right back.
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