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CNN Live Saturday

A Look At The Life Of Pat Tillman; 14 Iraqi, 5 U.S. Troops Die In Iraq Today; Michael Jackson Indicted By Grandjury

Aired April 24, 2004 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


KELLI ARENA, CNN ANCHOR: It's 2:00 p.m. on the East Coast, 11:00 a.m. in Tempe, Arizona. Good morning -- good afternoon, I'm Kelli Arena, live in Washington D.C.
MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Migel Marquez, live in Tempe, Arizona. This state -- the country is shocked about the death of Pat Tillman. We'll take you to place where his football career in Arizona started and ended right here Sun Devil Stadium.

ARENA: Also, getting involved in the political process. We'll examine the roll that many immigrants are playing in this year's election.

And trouble for one Florida school after it is caught using students on a roadside chain gang. We'll have those stories in a moment, but first, these headlines.

Family and friends gather in North Dakota to bury slain college student Dru Sjodin. Mourners remembered her by tying pink ribbons around their car antennas. Pink was her favorite color. Sjodin's body was found last weekend, nearly five months after she disappeared from a Grand Forks shopping mall.

In the Middle East, three Palestinians are killed in clashes with Israeli military forces in the West Bank. Palestinian officials say one of the casualties was a 15-year-old boy. Israeli officials say the teen and the two men were wanted militants who were plotting an attack in Israel.

China and the World Health Organization joined forces in the fight against new SARS cases. Two new cases were confirmed yesterday. One in Beijing and another in an Eastern Province. A WHO team is expected to arrive in China within days.

Professional football salutes a former player who has become a fallen patriot in the war on terror. Pat Tillman was serving with Army Rangers when he died Thursday in a fire fight in Afghanistan. He had given up a lucrative career with the Arizona Cardinals to serve his country. NFL officials took a moment out of today's draft announcements to recognize Tillman.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PAUL TAGLIABUE, NFL COMMISSIONER: Please join me in a moment of silence in memory of all those men and women, all those heroes who have given their lives for all of us. Thank you. CROWD: USA! USA! USA! USA!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ARENA: A former NFL teammate says he's proud of Tillman's decision to serve, adding Tillman did it his way.

CNN's Miguel Marquez is in Tempe, Arizona with details on honoring the American hero.

MARQUEZ: There is a lot going on here. We're in Sun Devil Stadium, the place where Pat Tillman played as a Sun Devil for Arizona State University, also as a Cardinal in the NFL. They share a stadium. It is also a place where he will be remembered for as long as this building is here. The end of this season his name and number will go up at the very top of Sun Devil Stadium.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Glenn (ph), on the move, intercepted by Pat Tillman.

MARQUEZ, (voice-over): Before the fame and money of the National Football League, before 9/11, before he made the decision to join the war on terror, along with his brother Kevin who played minor league baseball, a picture of Pat Tillman from scrawny freshman to senior star.

RICH WERNER, ASSOCIATE HEAD STRENGTH COACH: He was small. He was undersized, underweight.

MARQUEZ: Rich worked on building Tillman's weight for four years at Arizona State University. In his final year as a Sun Devil Tillman was named defensive player of the year.

WERNER: Pat is the type of guy that did he could do make up for his physical abilities, you know, with heart and superior condition, the guy was in unbelievable shape.

MARQUEZ: What was it like going up against this guy in practice?

RICKY BOYER, FMR. ASU WIDE RECEIVER: Hell on two feet.

MARQUEZ: Ricky Boyer was a Sun Devil wide receiver. And in practice, first string went up against first string, Ricky Boyer went up against Pat Tillman.

BOYER: Pat was fast. He was strong, especially for his size. And like I said, he was scrappy and would never quit on any play.

MARQUEZ: For the man who's would never quit, the ultimate sign of sports respect. His Sun Devil number 42 will be retired at end of the season. Conner Banks, the 21-year-old defensive end says, he wanted to wear the number because he followed Pat Tillman's career since high school.

CONNER BANKS, DEFENSIVE END, SUN DEVILS: It is a great honor to wear number 42 for the last time. And I feel so much pride.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MARQUEZ: Now, the Cardinals will play in had in this stadium for a few more seasons. When the new stadium opens in 2006, the area around it will be named the Pat Tillman Freedom Plaza. They will also retire his number, no. 40 there. A scholarship fund is set up for him as well. All of this for a guy who chided the press and didn't want to be remembered as anything other than just another regular soldier -- Kelli.

ARENA: Too bad, huh?

CNN's Miguel Marquez, thanks very much for that report.

Well, CNN's Nic Robertson is with the U.S. forces in Afghanistan. He has more on the circumstances around Tillman's death and his comrades' reaction.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The lateral to Pat Tillman, time winding down.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The move intercepted by Pat Tillman.

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Patrick Tillman, football star, turned Army Ranger hero, remembered at U.S. bases in the country where he was killed.

SPEC. ROSALYN RIOS, U.S. ARMY: It was just shocking because he is an American hero, as we all are because we are all, you know, here.

ROBERTSON: His ranger unit, seen here during a recent mission, was according to army one on a joint patrol with Afghan forces, close to the border with Pakistan when they were attacked just as the sun was setting.

LT. COL. MATTHEW REEVERS, COALITION SPOKESMAN: The enemy size unknown at this time. Still kind of working through some of the details on that. That said, again they were ambushed. They dismounted. They moved towards the ambush, the fire fight ensued and that's when specialist Tillman was killed.

ROBERTSON: Few other details of the incident released at a coalition briefing except that Tillman's two injured colleagues now reported stable. Along the border mountains near the latest ambush, troops report a attacks on the coalition and its Afghan allies have increased. Two weeks ago, parachute infantry troops were ambushed in the same area. The attackers, not for the first time according to the troops, pulling back beyond the coalition reach to sanctuary inside Pakistan. Hope here, Tillman's killing not in vain.

CAPT. MICHAEL SCHWARMBERGER, U.S. ARMY: It brings light to all Americans that see and hear about it, that, yes, there are still people over here, still Americans, military and civilians as well that are here still fighting for the cause.

ROBERTSON (on camera): In death Patrick Tillman reaffirmed what he achieved in life, a respect for his sense of honor, duty and patriotism. But perhaps more importantly for the soldiers here is, he has cast a spotlight back on a forgotten corner of the war on terrorism.

Nic Robertson, CNN, Kabul, Afghanistan.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ARENA: A series of new attacks spill U.S. and Iraqi blood across parts of Iraq. Violence today claimed the lives of 14 Iraqi civilians and five U.S. troops.

CNN's Jane Arraf is covering developments from Baghdad.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JANE ARRAF, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It was day punctuated by violence. North of Baghdad, in Taji, about 12 miles, 20 kilometers north at a 1st Cavalry Division, U.S. Army base, rockets slammed into the base just before dawn. Five U.S. Soldiers were killed and six wounded, three of them critically in the attack according to officials. They say attack helicopters destroyed a truck that launched the rockets, but it is not clear whether they got the people who launched them as well. And here in Baghdad, on what should have been a placid morning in a marketplace, in the Shia neighborhood of Sadr City, a mortar attack killed between 6 and 12 people according to officials, and wounded up to 38, some of them children. The mortar attack was near a U.S. Army base, but it is not clear what that target was. And in Saddam's hometown of Tikrit, another explosion there. This one homemade bomb outside the base. Two Iraqi policeman and two civilians killed, more than a dozen wounded. No U.S. casualties in that one. And Fallujah, west of Baghdad, a flashpoint of violence there, the U.S. warning that time is running out. Military spokesman General Mark Kimmitt said parties to the cease-fire had not lived up to their end of the agreement.

GEN. MARK KIMMITT, MILITARY SPOKESMAN: We also are looking at bringing out of Fallujah those that are trying to hijack that sovereignty for Fallujah, the foreign fighters, the former Saddam Fedayeen, (UNINTELLIGIBLE), who don't want to see Iraqi control of that city. But we'll continue to talk. We'll continue to try to settle this peacefully. But our patience is not limitless. And our patience is not eternal. Should there not be a good faith effort demonstrated by the belligerence inside of Fallujah, the coalition is prepared to act.

ARRAF: Fallujah threatens to be not just a flashpoint for violence, but according to mosque demands and people in the streets, something that could ignite uprisings across the country if Marines make good their threat to take that entire city. They say that cease- fire is shaky because insurgents keep firing at them. And a U.S. Military spokesman says attacks these days are ranging at up to 42 a day against U.S. and Iraqi targets. Incredibly, that's lower than it was a few weeks ago. He says it is too soon to tell whether that trend will continue.

Jane Arraf, CNN, reporting from Baghdad.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ARENA: Well, insurgent strategies are keeping coalition forces on their toes. Those strategies have been described as a mix of clever tricks and ragtag offenses. In Fallujah, ambushes focus on convoys carrying vital supplies to coalition troops. Fighters in Najaf are described as mostly young kids and thugs.

So how is the coalition meeting the challenges?

We turn to national security analyst Ken Robinson in Atlanta. Thank you for joining us.

KEN ROBINSON, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Hi, Kelli.

ARENA: I guess the first question is how do you discern between the enemy and just regular civilians?

What are the rules of engagement?

ROBINSON: The rules of engagement here are clear. Anyone who attacks a member of the coalition is a combatant. Anyone carrying a weapon or firing that weapon toward coalition forces is going to be engaged. But it is a challenge because their tactic is to fire, scoot away drop their weapons and than fade into a crowd, use crowds as cover. It is a challenging situation for the coalition as they plan their entry book into Fallujah.

ARENA: What have you seen, change of tactic from the group on the ground there in response to the new attacks?

ROBINSON: They've been very major. They have been communicating directly with tribal leaders and negotiating with them, but more importantly they've been communicating with community leaders, block to block. And they're not going to rush back into Fallujah. You're not going to see a large Marine expeditionary force that tries to seize the city and subjugate the city. They're going to work with joint patrols again, even though they didn't work before, they're going to continue that. They're going to continue to use their technology. They are going to use overhead, unblinking technology, to observe and identify strategic surgical targets that they can take out to avoid being drawn into what happened Fallujah the other day where people were firing from mosques, attempting to have mosques destroyed so they could achieve an information warfare objective.

ARENA: So, I guess the best weapon in the arsenal can be human intelligence, right?

ROBINSON: Yes. The average Iraqi provided information on these foreign fighters, because remember there are multiple groups that they're challenging now. There are former Ba'athists, there are Ansar al-Islam (ph), there are jihadist fighters and understanding and identifying the source of support for each of these groups and than attacking that is going to be crucial, because it is not all one individual it is a mixed bag of folks out there that's joined a pick up fight.

ARENA: Obviously these have very young men and women out there. I mean, this is nothing that they could have prepared for in any sort of training. This all seems to be decisions made on the fly.

Is that pretty much the sum of it?

ROBINSON: Well what they do is they do movements to contact and in these movements to contact, they try to develop the situation on the ground and assess it. Yes there are young men and women who are providing support in the coalition, but they're led by very experienced fighters who are measured in the way that they apply their combat power because they don't want to give an objective, a psychological objective to the enemy forces. I think there is going to be very surgical about this and the application of power will be precise.

ARENA: What if anything do you see as a hopeful sign?

ROBINSON: The first hopeful sign saw was the fact that the coalition chose to negotiate. They were not negotiating with the terrorists, but negotiating with the tribal leaders who were providing that source of power to them. That's a real water shed event. That shows that they're willing to look and find a political outcome. They recognize -- they recognized the reality on the ground that there has to be some respect given to the local tribal leadership, and create an opportunity for them to disarm or at least to identify those who refuse to disarm. That's a very positive step that the coalition took.

ARENA: All right, Ken Robinson, good to see you, our national security analyst.

ROBINSON: Thanks, Kelli.

ARENA: Have a good one.

This week there was graphic evidence that the fight for Iraq may be a long way from complete. Camera crews were along with U.S. Marines during a two hour fire fight. We'll show you the anatomy of a fire fight. That's at 6:00 p.m. today on "CNN LIVE SATURDAY."

Ahead on this so-called road map for peace, the White House sends an urgent message to Israel hoping to stop the violence in the Middle East. The latest ahead.

Also, a big week ahead for President Bush and Vice President Cheney as both prepare to testify before the 9/11 Panel.

And the words of Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld like you've never heard before.

We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ARENA: The spotlight in the Middle East is once again on Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat. Supporters cheered him on today as he mocked remarks from Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon. Meanwhile Washington is not happy with Sharon either.

White House correspondent Dana Bash is on the story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DANA BASH, WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: After hearing the Israeli prime minister say he no longer feels bound by a three year old promise to President Bush not to harm Yasser Arafat, the White House sent Israel an urgent message, a pledge is a pledge. Senior administration officials say it was National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice who delivered that message of displeasure, in a phone call to his chief of staff, Dove Wiessglass.

Administration sources do confirm that Sharon told the president while in Washington last week he may want to go after Arafat because he thinks he has a direct role in terrorism against Israel. And the president himself has made it very clear in his view Yasser Arafat is an obstacle to peace. Mr. Bush has never had Arafat to the White House and the president did not back the so-called road map to peace until there was someone else on the Palestinian side to deal with. However the White House strongly believes targeting Arafat would be a huge mistake, because in their view it would make him a martyr and make the already volatile situation on the ground much worse.

Dana Bash, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ARENA: Some more testimony in the September 11th investigation is expected this week. The commission is scheduled to question President Bush and Vice President Dick Cheney on Thursday. The public won't get to watch this time, like past hearings. So we turn to "Time" magazine's Washington correspondent Viveca Novak to set the scene for us. Good to see you.

VIVECA NOVAK, "TIME" WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Good to see you, Kelli.

ARENA: What really are your expectations?

Are we going to learn anything new?

NOVAK: I'm not sure we're going to learn anything new because I'm not sure how closely held this will be. We did manage to learn a little bit about what former President Clinton said in his private testimony. I imagine there will be even tighter security, tighter lips about what goes on Thursday with President Bush and Vice President Cheney. Whether anything -- whether the commission learns anything new is really the question. And you have to remember that they have been questioning hundreds of witnesses that we don't even know about behind the scenes. So they know quite a bit more than the public does at this point.

ARENA: One would expect that the president and vice president, though I guess the nation would think they should know, may not have access to the detailed information that other folks that have testified had.

NOVAK: That's right. Unless they are serious micromanagers and we don't believe President Bush is one of those, he seems pretty good at delegating, he probably knows -- he knows the broad picture, the things that were important enough to filter up to him. He will be questioned, I assume, about the August 6th's president daily briefing, the now famous document that Condoleezza Rice was questioned about and was declassified after her testimony.

And he'll be questioned, I think, about his reaction to that, that did not have specific warning, that they were going to use airplanes bombs to attack New York and Washington

But what's certainly alarming in some ways and how did he retook the that?

Why did he stay in Texas until the end of the month?

And did he think that -- did that inject any urgency into things as he saw it?

ARENA: What you to expect to be their primary line of questioning?

NOVAK: I think that there are -- they're going start with the beginning of the administration what did President Clinton tell you as you were coming in?

We'll hear -- they'll hear their version of that. And how aggressively they pursued al Qaeda and what kind of warnings they were getting.

ARENA: And obviously interestingly they're testifying together, which can really change the dynamics a bit don't you think?

NOVAK: Yes. It is interesting that they'll be doing that. And normally we think of Vice President Cheney as being sort silent partner in this team, but in this setting it could be he was given more briefings, he may know more about exactly what was known or was going on what kinds of warnings were coming in. But that's something that the public doesn't know very much about at this point. I expect the commission knows more is what did Vice President Cheney know who was briefing him what was he being told and what was his reaction?

ARENA: Right. Right. And, of course, the time restrictions will play a major role here.

NOVAK: Right. They say that there really are no time restrictions, but I do think that the commission will be very conscious of the fact that they're taking out the president and the vice president's time. They're not limited to an hour as originally the White House wanted, but I don't think it is going to go too much longer than that.

ARENA: And against the backdrop of what we keep hearing is even a higher state of alert these days.

NOVAK: Right.

ARENA: That will be interesting. Vivica Fox, thank you very much. Vivica Fox, look what I just did. Can you imagine...

(CROSSTALK)

ARENA: Thanks for joining us.

NOVAK: Take care.

ARENA: Well, taking a stand against the IMF, critics of the world bank are staging a noisy protest against the bank and International Monetary Fund. We'll take you there. Also a Florida school lands in hot water for using students on a road side change gang. We'll have that incredible story.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ARENA: Anti-globalization activists are rallying in the nation's capital. They're protesting the weekend meetings of the World Bank and International Monetary fund.

Sean Callebs is live from Washington with details.

SEAN CALLEBS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: We are right in the heart of the city, only a few blocks from the White House. Behind me you see some of the D.C. Police on horses. There are authorities out here on motorcycles, in cars, helicopters, on bicycles, basicly an impressive show of support by the police. They're going to do everything they can to keep these demonstrations by those opposed to the World Bank and the International Monetary Fund, keep the demonstrations under control. You see the -- right now there are several hundred demonstrators that are making their way here. They began at the Washington Monument.

They had a brief rally there. Saying they're basicly opposed to the World Bank and the IMF for a number of reasons. They say they want the World Bank to hold open meetings. They would like the World Bank to retire debt against developing nations. They say that policy is one that just continues to create a scenario where the rich get richer, the poor get poorer. And lastly this he would also like them to stop environmental devastation. Let me take you back and show you what the authorities are going to do here. Right there that giant white stone, glass front building is the World Bank. You see the police are located in front of there. Here is an area, a pen where the demonstrators are basicly going to be held inside.

Now, on the bottom of that gate there you see there is a stand. There are a number of police officers out here with riot gear and they are going to on those -- on that area if the demonstrators begin to push their way forward, that way they can keep them from shoving the barricade over. They can keep the situation to a minimum. But the World Bank for its part, the members have been shuttled in and out of the building with police escorts. Basicly, they have been shielded. They have been well insulated from the demonstrations. These -- those making their way here should be here in a matter of minutes. Authorities are bracing for the worst, but as always, Kelli, hoping for the best.

ARENA: All right, Sean. We're hoping for best, too, with you out there. Thanks for that report.

Well, protests are another kind of another kind are scheduled to take place Sunday in the nation's capital. One is the March For Women's Lives. Organizers say they're concerned about reproductive freedom and justice. A counter-demonstration called Right March: Operation Witness, is also planned.

Fighting for a political voice this election year, we'll find out why more immigrants are taking an active role as we head towards the November election.

Also, an arrest in a 30-year-old mystery, the murder of an elderly nun. But the suspect comes as a surprise. Details ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ARENA: Here are the latest developments, Americans mourn the death of a true patriot. People are adding personal messages and mementos to a makeshift memorial for former NFL pro Pat Tillman. His former team, the Arizona Cardinals retired his jersey and pledges to name a section of its new stadium after him. Tillman was killed in combat Thursday in Afghanistan.

Reports of devastation from a scene of a train explosion in North Korea. Red Cross and U.N. teams are now on the scene. China's state news agency reports 154 people died in that blast. Dozens of them were children. North Korea blames the disaster on carelessness.

Abortion rights take center stage in the Kerry campaign. Friday, Democratic candidate John Kerry spoke at a rally for abortion right activists who plan a Sunday march on Washington. Kerry spoke just hours after the Catholic Church issued a mandate to deny communion to any politician who supports abortion rights.

The importance of the Hispanic vote in this coming election is well documented. Often south Asians and others are overlooked. After the September 11 attacks they want their voices to be heard. CNN's Alina Cho reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ALINA CHO, CNN CORRESPONDENT, (voice over): They call themselves the 9/11 generation.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Politics and government is no longer something that happens in some far away place. CHO: Young south Asians, Arabs and Muslims, immigrants, some citizens, some not, who want to be heard. They have some of the same concerns as other Americans.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Jobs, health care, war, education.

CHO: And some, like the Patriot Act, that hit closer to home.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The right to not be tortured, the right to a free and public trial.

CHO: The goal of this recent forum in New York was to encourage these young people to speak out about the issues important to them.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If you need anything, you know --.

CHO: Nausheen Iobal one of the organizers is fighting for an education bill called the Dream Act.

NAUSHEEN IOBAL, ORGANIZER THE DREAN ACT: The Dream Act will allow young immigrants to go to college and these are undocumented students who are first and second in their classes. And they can be the future leaders of America. But they are not able to go to college.

CHO: Twenty six year old Nausheen is a citizen and voted in the last two elections. Akshay Sateesh is not.

AKSHAY SATEESH: I'm in this limbo phase. Where I have a green card. And I feel like I'm part of the whole process in this country but I can't have my say in politics.

CHO: So as he waits for citizenship papers to be processed, Akshay helps others register to vote. The census bureau says the Asian-American population grew by nearly 50 percent in the last decade. Making it the fastest growing segment and a little more than 4 percent of the total U.S. population.

Advocates say all immigrants should exercise their right to vote.

TAMAR JACOBY, IMMIGRATION EXPERT: This is a way to show them that they can get something out of being American and that membership can work for you.

CHO: That your voice, if you go to the polls, will be heard. Alina Cho, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ARENA: In the race for the White House, the ad wars continue with the Bush and Kerry campaigns putting some new ads on the airwaves this week. Kerry's message promises a new approach to the violence in Iraq.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN KERRY, (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Let me tell you exactly what I would do to change the situation in Iraq. I would immediately reach out to the international community and sharing the burden, the risk, because they also have a stake in the outcome of what is happening in Iraq.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ARENA: And the Bush ad accuses John Kerry of double speak.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: John Kerry says, a lot of people don't really know who I am. Well, actually, a lot of people do.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Kerry's hometown paper says in his continuing effort to be all things to all voters, John Kerry is engaging in a level of double speak that makes most voters wince.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The "Wall Street Journal" said Kerry's tax plan would mean increasing the tax burden again, which would likely kill the recovery.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: On Iraq...

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ARENA: Those new ads are part of our focus in today's "Political Round table." With me now Democratic strategist Jenny Backus and Republican strategist Ed Rogers.

Hello to both of you.

JENNY BACKUS, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Hello.

ED ROGERS, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Hi.

ARENA: OK, we are revving it up now. Jennie doesn't that Kerry ad just way oversimplifies things, let's get everybody involved to fix this problem.

BACKUS: Absolutely not. I think John Kerry said it best himself, which he very simply said, the best way to change how the world looks at our role in Iraq and how much support we can get is to change a president. That's really clearly how we can send a message. We need to have a president who will tell the truth, a president who is combat tested and battle ready a president who is committed to having NATO and the U.N. share some of the burden. Basically we need a president that will level with the American people about what the cost is and how we're going to get out of Iraq eventually and how we're going to stabilize it.

ARENA: And I want to talk to you about the ad for Bush. Several early criticisms say well he's quoting from right wing newspapers. Isn't that really misleading?

ROGERS: Well it is not misleading at all. I mean Kerry's ads and Kerry's persona right now is trying to move to the center. He's got a record that is well chronicled, well defined, well spoken toward. And it is very much to the left. So the Bush campaign is doing a good job of not letting Kerry get away with double speak and letting Kerry get away from running from his record.

BACKUS: But Ed, do you think it is kind of strange right now that the president of the United States, who is supposed to be the commander in chief and the incumbent. Sort of a higher position, is all of a sudden the only thing that he's saying on the airwaves are attacks against his Democratic opponent? Don't you think that sends some kind of strange message?

ROGERS: It is a political season. And that's his message right now with Kerry; obviously this administration is saying and doing a lot of things on a lot of fronts. Economically of course and the war, the broader war on terrorism, reconstruction of Iraq. There is a lot going on. But yes right now they have a pretty good ad running against Kerry and they don't like it at all.

BACKUS: But again, I'm somewhat troubled by the fact that if George Bush was leading this country in the direction that he says he's leading it, and if he had a record to run on, I think you would see millions of points of ads that --

ARENA: Some say that Kerry is constantly on the defensive.

BACKUS: But he's not.

(CROSSTALK)

BACKUS: That ad that --

ARENA: Let me change gears let's talk about abortion. How much of a role will this play in the upcoming election?

ROGERS: Abortion politics is pretty tried and true by this point. I think what is going to be different this time is the partial- birth bill that was signed. Both houses of Congress overwhelmingly passed a partial-birth abortion procedure ban. The president signed it into law. Kerry is against it. Abortion politics is pretty mature in American politics now. That's the new ingredient.

ARENA: Jenny.

BACKUS: Well I agree and disagree with that. Which is classic here. But I think the major reason why issues about abortion and choice are going to be key is because George Bush won a lot of women by pretending to be a moderate in the last election. He's now got a record, just like he's got a record on the war and his record is one that is actually kind of very frankly for a conservative somewhat surprising.

He wants the government to make all the decisions. He wants the government to make private medical decisions. He sent his attorney general out to take people's private medical records because they chose to have a procedure. And on that bill that he talks about, that's just -- that is just the beginning -- women are going to march tomorrow and men on the mall with groups like Naral (ph) Pro-Choice America because they don't believe the government should be in their bedroom.

ARENA: You know I'm going to give Ed's the last word.

ROGERS: I've got to say abortion politics is pretty mature it is not going drive any new voters. Every one has pretty much made up their mind. The election is going to be about peace and prosperity.

ARENA: All right. We will see. Ed Rogers, Jenny Backus, thank you both for joining us. Sorry we're out of time.

ROGERS: Thanks for having us.

BACKUS: Thanks Kelli.

ARENA: Well this programming note, "Inside Politics Sunday" will have all the day's political news including John Kerry's daughter, Vanessa Kerry, campaigning for him at the massive women's march on Sunday. "Inside Politics" Sunday airs at 10:00 a.m.

New charges in a shroud of secrecy surrounding the latest allegations against the king of pop. Straight ahead in our "Legal Roundtable," we'll examine the latest indictment surrounding Michael Jackson.

Also it not your ordinary class trip. We'll find out why these students hit the road in a major cleanup effort.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ARENA: A school in Pensacola, Florida, faces criminal fraud charges. The state says some students with academic or behavioral problems were actually sent to work on road projects when they were supposed to be in class. CNN's John Zarrella has the story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOHN ZARRELLA, CNN CORRESPONDNET: Parents had nothing to say as they dropped their children off at a Escambia charter school outside Pensacola. If they're worried about the school's future, they're keeping it to themselves. The charter school has been charged by state prosecutors with criminal organized fraud.

RUSS EDGAR, ASST. STATE ATTORNEY: In essence we have alleged that the school is being paid to teach the children and at the same time the school is being paid to remove them from the school during classroom times for weeks on end.

ZARRELLA: Prosecutors say the school was getting money from the State Department of Education to teach 140 at risk kids. At the same time, it was also getting money from the State Department of Transportation. More than a million dollars over the past five years. The contract with the DOT paid the school $16.25 an hour to put each student to work on road crews. Cleaning up rights of way and medians. Of that, students got paid $10 an hour. Putting the students to work was perfectly legal under the State's Youth Work Experience Program. The program allows them the opportunity to get public service work. The problem prosecutors say is that the students spent most of their time working and only a fraction of the required time learning. Prosecutors say the fraud began in 1999 when the school made $40,000 a year in profits.

The school president told the local newspaper the school is now complying with education requirements. The county school superintendent says the school's charter is not being pulled, but --

JIM PAUL, ESCAMBIA COUNTY SCHOOL SUPERINTENDENT: If they're using those students in order to help them -- help that school stay financially afloat, there is a serious problem.

ZARRELLA: State education officials say the local school board had the primary responsibility for ensuring that education money was being used to educate.

JIM HORNE, FLORIDA EDUCATION COMMISSIONER: It is up to the local district. We fund the district. The district funds the charter schools. We don't fund charter schools directly.

ZARRELLA: Prosecutors say the school got away with the fraud by falsifying class attendance records and coarse schedules. County officials say for the sake of the school will remain open at least until the end of the school year.

John Zarrella, CNN, Miami.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ARENA: Checking on other stories making headlines across America, a Roman Catholic priest in Ohio faces murder charges in the death of a nun more than two decades ago. The Reverend Gerald Robinson was arrested yesterday, five months after police reopened the murder investigation. The nun was stabbed 30 times and strangled in 1980. Her body was found in the chapel of the hospital where Robinson served as Chaplin.

North Carolina college student accused of hiding box cutters on airliner has pled guilty. And as part of a plea bargain Nethanal Heatwole has made a video that could be used to train airport screeners. Heatwole says he hid box cutters on airliners to expose security weaknesses. He could get up to six months in jail at his June sentencing.

More than a month into spring, this is what some people in Colorado are seeing. A storm dumped more than a foot of snow on parts of the state yesterday, knocking out power, shutting down schools, and making travel difficult in some places.

We're looking -- I thought we would get some pictures of our -- there they are. This is outside the World Bank and IMF Headquarters where protesters are gathering to protest that meeting there. So far things have been very peaceful. But I can tell you that security is very tight. Just in case there is anything that goes wrong.

In a setback this week for attorneys defending Kobe Bryant against rape charges straight ahead in our "Legal Roundtable." We will examine the ruling against the NBA star and what it could mean for his upcoming trial.

Move over Trump there is a new Donald making headlines in pop culture. That story ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ARENA: The self-proclaimed king of pop will have to prove his innocence in a trial. A California grand jury indicted Michael Jackson this week. The panel's action in the child molestation case was shrouded in secrecy. It is just one of the high profile cases that we'll discuss in our "Legal Roundtable."

Avery Friedman is a civil rights attorney and law professor who joins us from Cleveland.

AVERY FRIEDMAN, CIVIL RIGHTS ATTORNEY: Hi Kelli.

ARENA: Richard Herman. Hi there. Richard Herman is a criminal defense attorney. He joins us from Fort Lauderdale, Florida. Nice and hot where you are.

RICHARD HERMAN, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: We're going swimming after this.

ARENA: Let's start with Michael Jackson. And the fact that he was indicted means there is no preliminary hearing. How important is that? Avery, let's start with you.

FRIEDMAN: Well the choice was for Tom Steaden to make that decision. And the fact is this is a case already dripping with reasonable doubt. So instead of subjecting his witnesses Kelli to being cross-examined by Michael's defense team, he decided to go in secret and got what he wanted. You could indict a ham sandwich before a grand jury. That's exactly what happened. So we're going to learn on Friday what the specific charges are. Take you to the bank. It is going to be a variation on the theme, but Michael will have to make that appearance on Friday. We'll see what the judge has to say.

HERMAN: And Kelli what we will also learn on Friday is this, we will see if Ben Brafman has any control over his client, because if Jackson walks into that courtroom with that studio army garb on with the arm bands and he moon walks on top cars of cars outside afterwards, you'll know at the point Brafman has no control over him.

But if he comes in on time, as a gentleman, and leaves promptly afterwards, if I was Tom Sneddon I wouldn't be sleeping too good at night. Because I don't believe Sneddon has seen the likes of a Ben Brafman in the courtroom.

ARENA: All right. Let's move to Kobe Bryant. We got a lot to cover. Kobe Bryant now the judge decided not to release the alleged victim's medical records.

FRIEDMAN: Right.

HERMAN: Well that's not that bad. Because let's just say that there are particular friends of the alleged victim, eyewitnesses who have seen her prior suicide attempts or have seen her and observed her, perhaps take prescription or nonprescription drugs. That will be admissible. The judge is...

ARENA: What you're saying is they can get around it.

HERMAN: They can get around it at this point.

FRIEDMAN: The other part of it is that the Judge Ruckriegle had it right. The question was the Sacrosanct of communications between a doctor and a patient. And what the defense team was trying to do Kelli was get into those records and find out by subpoenaing the health care providers. Well the judge quashed those subpoenas and said, you know what you have another way of getting that information. You're not going to invade the sacrosanct of that relationship.

HERMAN: But you Kelli I believe if the alleged victim testifies contrary to the information in those records, that the defense will renew their application and the judge may let them in at that point.

FRIEDMAN: Well they are not going to get them now.

ARENA: Let me ask you, what about the sexual history. Is there any chance that either of you see that those -- that would be...

HERMAN: Absolutely, because if this alleged victim had sex shortly before or immediately after the alleged time that she had sex with Kobe Bryant, at that point those records are absolutely going to be admissible because the victim is going to claim certain physical evidence, certain tearing, certain bruising that she sustained.

FRIEDMAN: Well that's different than the history though. You are not going to get the history of this individual into evidence.

HERMAN: Not the whole history.

FRIEDMAN: The individual behavior before and after I don't disagree with.

ARENA: It depends on your definition of history, I guess. Right? I guess it depends on your definition of history.

FRIEDMAN: Right, your not going to find out what this individual was doing a year ago, two years ago.

HERMAN: No that is irrelevant.

FRIEDMAN: The point of what happened around that time is clearly going to be able to -- they'll argue and get it into evidence.

HERMAN: And rightfully so. ARENA: All right, well one more thing if I can. Will the discovery of Dru Sjodin's body make a difference in that? Because obviously it will, but how much of a difference?

FRIEDMAN: A huge difference. Because now we have an individual, this Alfonzo Rodriguez is a certified registered sex offender, now because they have the body, we have evidence of Rodriguez engaged and interesting we're looking at possible federal charges and a possible death penalty.

HERMAN: You know Kelli, these types of cases this Dru Sjodin and this Carlie Brucia; they really test the fortitude of a defense attorney. I couldn't represent either of these guys. I just hope that justice is served quickly. The police work was good. And they get quick resolution and that these guys pay the price for what they've done. It is gut wrenching, both these cases.

ARENA: Well you're absolutely right. All right, Avery Friedman, Richard Herman I want to thank you, both, for joining us. Get out there and enjoy this wonderful day.

HERMAN: Thank you Kelli.

FRIEDMAN: We'll see you soon.

ARENA: Well our Web site is your legal link to the high profile cases making headlines. So logon to CNN.com/law for the latest developments as well as legal opinions and analysis.

Well a defensive stance now put to music. Up next, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld's greatest lines performed on stage.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ARENA: Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld is known for his musings. Now those statements have become music. Two composers have used Rummy's words in their songs, but is the defense secretary taking offense? CNN's Jeanne Moos has more.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JEANNE MOOS, CNN CORRESPONDNET: When Donald Rumsfeld briefed reporters; little did he know he was writing songs.

DONALD RUMSFELD, DEFENSE SECRETARY: There are known unknowns. That is to say there are things that we now know we don't know.

(SINGING)

RUMSFELD: But there are also unknown unknowns.

(SINGING)

MOOS: Who knew two composers, one on the West Coast one on the East Coast would separately put Secretary Rumsfeld's words to music.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Rumsfeld is like the singer and dancer of language. He just spins stuff. He loves it you can tell.

MOOS: Rumsfeld's words were first collected in a book of poetry. Now poetry has become song.

RUMSFELD: Everyone is so eager to get the story before in fact the story is there that the world is constantly being fed things that haven't happened.

(SINGING)

ELENDOR WALL, SOPRANO: I've become very good at keeping a straight face.

MOOS: Soprano Elender Wall was asked by her composer friend Bryant Kong to perform the Rumsfeld songs. And no, they're not fans of the defense secretary's policies. Phil Kline even made a song out of the defense secretary's reaction to TV replays of looting in Iraq.

RUMSFELD: It is the same picture of some person walking out of some building with a vase.

PHIL KLINE: It is the same picture of some person walking out of some building with a vase.

MOOS: Both composers have released CDs. You can't imagine a song like this ever being played on a radio and becoming a hit song.

KLINE: Why not?

MOOS: Rummy number one on the hit parade?

RUMSFELD: There are things we do not know we don't know. We don't know.

MOOS: And if you want to know what Secretary Rumsfeld thinks --

RUMSFELD: Are you talking about that silly compact disc that some opera singer sings my press conferences.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There is more than one.

RUMSFELD: Now if that doesn't tell you something about the state of the world.

MOOS: Next thing you know that will be on a CD.

RUMSFELD: The world thinks all these things happen, they never happened.

(SINGING)

MOOS: Jeanne Moos, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ARENA: Well there is much more ahead on CNN SATURDAY. At the top of the hour, "NEXT@CNN." At 4:00, CNN LIVE SATURDAY and "Dollar Sign," what you need to know what you're selling a home. Experts answer you call and emails.

At 5:00 "PEOPLE IN THE NEWS" profiling pop star Michael Jackson and his grandjury indictment this week on child molestation charges. But first, Daniel Sieberg with a preview of "NEXT@CNN."

DANIEL SIEBERG, CNN ANCHOR: This week, "NEXT@CNN" comes to you from Fathom Studios, where they are making the first major animated feature outside of Hollywood. We'll show you what kind of technology and genius went into it, right after a check of the day's top stories.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com


Aired April 24, 2004 - 14:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KELLI ARENA, CNN ANCHOR: It's 2:00 p.m. on the East Coast, 11:00 a.m. in Tempe, Arizona. Good morning -- good afternoon, I'm Kelli Arena, live in Washington D.C.
MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Migel Marquez, live in Tempe, Arizona. This state -- the country is shocked about the death of Pat Tillman. We'll take you to place where his football career in Arizona started and ended right here Sun Devil Stadium.

ARENA: Also, getting involved in the political process. We'll examine the roll that many immigrants are playing in this year's election.

And trouble for one Florida school after it is caught using students on a roadside chain gang. We'll have those stories in a moment, but first, these headlines.

Family and friends gather in North Dakota to bury slain college student Dru Sjodin. Mourners remembered her by tying pink ribbons around their car antennas. Pink was her favorite color. Sjodin's body was found last weekend, nearly five months after she disappeared from a Grand Forks shopping mall.

In the Middle East, three Palestinians are killed in clashes with Israeli military forces in the West Bank. Palestinian officials say one of the casualties was a 15-year-old boy. Israeli officials say the teen and the two men were wanted militants who were plotting an attack in Israel.

China and the World Health Organization joined forces in the fight against new SARS cases. Two new cases were confirmed yesterday. One in Beijing and another in an Eastern Province. A WHO team is expected to arrive in China within days.

Professional football salutes a former player who has become a fallen patriot in the war on terror. Pat Tillman was serving with Army Rangers when he died Thursday in a fire fight in Afghanistan. He had given up a lucrative career with the Arizona Cardinals to serve his country. NFL officials took a moment out of today's draft announcements to recognize Tillman.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PAUL TAGLIABUE, NFL COMMISSIONER: Please join me in a moment of silence in memory of all those men and women, all those heroes who have given their lives for all of us. Thank you. CROWD: USA! USA! USA! USA!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ARENA: A former NFL teammate says he's proud of Tillman's decision to serve, adding Tillman did it his way.

CNN's Miguel Marquez is in Tempe, Arizona with details on honoring the American hero.

MARQUEZ: There is a lot going on here. We're in Sun Devil Stadium, the place where Pat Tillman played as a Sun Devil for Arizona State University, also as a Cardinal in the NFL. They share a stadium. It is also a place where he will be remembered for as long as this building is here. The end of this season his name and number will go up at the very top of Sun Devil Stadium.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Glenn (ph), on the move, intercepted by Pat Tillman.

MARQUEZ, (voice-over): Before the fame and money of the National Football League, before 9/11, before he made the decision to join the war on terror, along with his brother Kevin who played minor league baseball, a picture of Pat Tillman from scrawny freshman to senior star.

RICH WERNER, ASSOCIATE HEAD STRENGTH COACH: He was small. He was undersized, underweight.

MARQUEZ: Rich worked on building Tillman's weight for four years at Arizona State University. In his final year as a Sun Devil Tillman was named defensive player of the year.

WERNER: Pat is the type of guy that did he could do make up for his physical abilities, you know, with heart and superior condition, the guy was in unbelievable shape.

MARQUEZ: What was it like going up against this guy in practice?

RICKY BOYER, FMR. ASU WIDE RECEIVER: Hell on two feet.

MARQUEZ: Ricky Boyer was a Sun Devil wide receiver. And in practice, first string went up against first string, Ricky Boyer went up against Pat Tillman.

BOYER: Pat was fast. He was strong, especially for his size. And like I said, he was scrappy and would never quit on any play.

MARQUEZ: For the man who's would never quit, the ultimate sign of sports respect. His Sun Devil number 42 will be retired at end of the season. Conner Banks, the 21-year-old defensive end says, he wanted to wear the number because he followed Pat Tillman's career since high school.

CONNER BANKS, DEFENSIVE END, SUN DEVILS: It is a great honor to wear number 42 for the last time. And I feel so much pride.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MARQUEZ: Now, the Cardinals will play in had in this stadium for a few more seasons. When the new stadium opens in 2006, the area around it will be named the Pat Tillman Freedom Plaza. They will also retire his number, no. 40 there. A scholarship fund is set up for him as well. All of this for a guy who chided the press and didn't want to be remembered as anything other than just another regular soldier -- Kelli.

ARENA: Too bad, huh?

CNN's Miguel Marquez, thanks very much for that report.

Well, CNN's Nic Robertson is with the U.S. forces in Afghanistan. He has more on the circumstances around Tillman's death and his comrades' reaction.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The lateral to Pat Tillman, time winding down.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The move intercepted by Pat Tillman.

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Patrick Tillman, football star, turned Army Ranger hero, remembered at U.S. bases in the country where he was killed.

SPEC. ROSALYN RIOS, U.S. ARMY: It was just shocking because he is an American hero, as we all are because we are all, you know, here.

ROBERTSON: His ranger unit, seen here during a recent mission, was according to army one on a joint patrol with Afghan forces, close to the border with Pakistan when they were attacked just as the sun was setting.

LT. COL. MATTHEW REEVERS, COALITION SPOKESMAN: The enemy size unknown at this time. Still kind of working through some of the details on that. That said, again they were ambushed. They dismounted. They moved towards the ambush, the fire fight ensued and that's when specialist Tillman was killed.

ROBERTSON: Few other details of the incident released at a coalition briefing except that Tillman's two injured colleagues now reported stable. Along the border mountains near the latest ambush, troops report a attacks on the coalition and its Afghan allies have increased. Two weeks ago, parachute infantry troops were ambushed in the same area. The attackers, not for the first time according to the troops, pulling back beyond the coalition reach to sanctuary inside Pakistan. Hope here, Tillman's killing not in vain.

CAPT. MICHAEL SCHWARMBERGER, U.S. ARMY: It brings light to all Americans that see and hear about it, that, yes, there are still people over here, still Americans, military and civilians as well that are here still fighting for the cause.

ROBERTSON (on camera): In death Patrick Tillman reaffirmed what he achieved in life, a respect for his sense of honor, duty and patriotism. But perhaps more importantly for the soldiers here is, he has cast a spotlight back on a forgotten corner of the war on terrorism.

Nic Robertson, CNN, Kabul, Afghanistan.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ARENA: A series of new attacks spill U.S. and Iraqi blood across parts of Iraq. Violence today claimed the lives of 14 Iraqi civilians and five U.S. troops.

CNN's Jane Arraf is covering developments from Baghdad.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JANE ARRAF, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It was day punctuated by violence. North of Baghdad, in Taji, about 12 miles, 20 kilometers north at a 1st Cavalry Division, U.S. Army base, rockets slammed into the base just before dawn. Five U.S. Soldiers were killed and six wounded, three of them critically in the attack according to officials. They say attack helicopters destroyed a truck that launched the rockets, but it is not clear whether they got the people who launched them as well. And here in Baghdad, on what should have been a placid morning in a marketplace, in the Shia neighborhood of Sadr City, a mortar attack killed between 6 and 12 people according to officials, and wounded up to 38, some of them children. The mortar attack was near a U.S. Army base, but it is not clear what that target was. And in Saddam's hometown of Tikrit, another explosion there. This one homemade bomb outside the base. Two Iraqi policeman and two civilians killed, more than a dozen wounded. No U.S. casualties in that one. And Fallujah, west of Baghdad, a flashpoint of violence there, the U.S. warning that time is running out. Military spokesman General Mark Kimmitt said parties to the cease-fire had not lived up to their end of the agreement.

GEN. MARK KIMMITT, MILITARY SPOKESMAN: We also are looking at bringing out of Fallujah those that are trying to hijack that sovereignty for Fallujah, the foreign fighters, the former Saddam Fedayeen, (UNINTELLIGIBLE), who don't want to see Iraqi control of that city. But we'll continue to talk. We'll continue to try to settle this peacefully. But our patience is not limitless. And our patience is not eternal. Should there not be a good faith effort demonstrated by the belligerence inside of Fallujah, the coalition is prepared to act.

ARRAF: Fallujah threatens to be not just a flashpoint for violence, but according to mosque demands and people in the streets, something that could ignite uprisings across the country if Marines make good their threat to take that entire city. They say that cease- fire is shaky because insurgents keep firing at them. And a U.S. Military spokesman says attacks these days are ranging at up to 42 a day against U.S. and Iraqi targets. Incredibly, that's lower than it was a few weeks ago. He says it is too soon to tell whether that trend will continue.

Jane Arraf, CNN, reporting from Baghdad.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ARENA: Well, insurgent strategies are keeping coalition forces on their toes. Those strategies have been described as a mix of clever tricks and ragtag offenses. In Fallujah, ambushes focus on convoys carrying vital supplies to coalition troops. Fighters in Najaf are described as mostly young kids and thugs.

So how is the coalition meeting the challenges?

We turn to national security analyst Ken Robinson in Atlanta. Thank you for joining us.

KEN ROBINSON, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Hi, Kelli.

ARENA: I guess the first question is how do you discern between the enemy and just regular civilians?

What are the rules of engagement?

ROBINSON: The rules of engagement here are clear. Anyone who attacks a member of the coalition is a combatant. Anyone carrying a weapon or firing that weapon toward coalition forces is going to be engaged. But it is a challenge because their tactic is to fire, scoot away drop their weapons and than fade into a crowd, use crowds as cover. It is a challenging situation for the coalition as they plan their entry book into Fallujah.

ARENA: What have you seen, change of tactic from the group on the ground there in response to the new attacks?

ROBINSON: They've been very major. They have been communicating directly with tribal leaders and negotiating with them, but more importantly they've been communicating with community leaders, block to block. And they're not going to rush back into Fallujah. You're not going to see a large Marine expeditionary force that tries to seize the city and subjugate the city. They're going to work with joint patrols again, even though they didn't work before, they're going to continue that. They're going to continue to use their technology. They are going to use overhead, unblinking technology, to observe and identify strategic surgical targets that they can take out to avoid being drawn into what happened Fallujah the other day where people were firing from mosques, attempting to have mosques destroyed so they could achieve an information warfare objective.

ARENA: So, I guess the best weapon in the arsenal can be human intelligence, right?

ROBINSON: Yes. The average Iraqi provided information on these foreign fighters, because remember there are multiple groups that they're challenging now. There are former Ba'athists, there are Ansar al-Islam (ph), there are jihadist fighters and understanding and identifying the source of support for each of these groups and than attacking that is going to be crucial, because it is not all one individual it is a mixed bag of folks out there that's joined a pick up fight.

ARENA: Obviously these have very young men and women out there. I mean, this is nothing that they could have prepared for in any sort of training. This all seems to be decisions made on the fly.

Is that pretty much the sum of it?

ROBINSON: Well what they do is they do movements to contact and in these movements to contact, they try to develop the situation on the ground and assess it. Yes there are young men and women who are providing support in the coalition, but they're led by very experienced fighters who are measured in the way that they apply their combat power because they don't want to give an objective, a psychological objective to the enemy forces. I think there is going to be very surgical about this and the application of power will be precise.

ARENA: What if anything do you see as a hopeful sign?

ROBINSON: The first hopeful sign saw was the fact that the coalition chose to negotiate. They were not negotiating with the terrorists, but negotiating with the tribal leaders who were providing that source of power to them. That's a real water shed event. That shows that they're willing to look and find a political outcome. They recognize -- they recognized the reality on the ground that there has to be some respect given to the local tribal leadership, and create an opportunity for them to disarm or at least to identify those who refuse to disarm. That's a very positive step that the coalition took.

ARENA: All right, Ken Robinson, good to see you, our national security analyst.

ROBINSON: Thanks, Kelli.

ARENA: Have a good one.

This week there was graphic evidence that the fight for Iraq may be a long way from complete. Camera crews were along with U.S. Marines during a two hour fire fight. We'll show you the anatomy of a fire fight. That's at 6:00 p.m. today on "CNN LIVE SATURDAY."

Ahead on this so-called road map for peace, the White House sends an urgent message to Israel hoping to stop the violence in the Middle East. The latest ahead.

Also, a big week ahead for President Bush and Vice President Cheney as both prepare to testify before the 9/11 Panel.

And the words of Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld like you've never heard before.

We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ARENA: The spotlight in the Middle East is once again on Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat. Supporters cheered him on today as he mocked remarks from Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon. Meanwhile Washington is not happy with Sharon either.

White House correspondent Dana Bash is on the story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DANA BASH, WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: After hearing the Israeli prime minister say he no longer feels bound by a three year old promise to President Bush not to harm Yasser Arafat, the White House sent Israel an urgent message, a pledge is a pledge. Senior administration officials say it was National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice who delivered that message of displeasure, in a phone call to his chief of staff, Dove Wiessglass.

Administration sources do confirm that Sharon told the president while in Washington last week he may want to go after Arafat because he thinks he has a direct role in terrorism against Israel. And the president himself has made it very clear in his view Yasser Arafat is an obstacle to peace. Mr. Bush has never had Arafat to the White House and the president did not back the so-called road map to peace until there was someone else on the Palestinian side to deal with. However the White House strongly believes targeting Arafat would be a huge mistake, because in their view it would make him a martyr and make the already volatile situation on the ground much worse.

Dana Bash, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ARENA: Some more testimony in the September 11th investigation is expected this week. The commission is scheduled to question President Bush and Vice President Dick Cheney on Thursday. The public won't get to watch this time, like past hearings. So we turn to "Time" magazine's Washington correspondent Viveca Novak to set the scene for us. Good to see you.

VIVECA NOVAK, "TIME" WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Good to see you, Kelli.

ARENA: What really are your expectations?

Are we going to learn anything new?

NOVAK: I'm not sure we're going to learn anything new because I'm not sure how closely held this will be. We did manage to learn a little bit about what former President Clinton said in his private testimony. I imagine there will be even tighter security, tighter lips about what goes on Thursday with President Bush and Vice President Cheney. Whether anything -- whether the commission learns anything new is really the question. And you have to remember that they have been questioning hundreds of witnesses that we don't even know about behind the scenes. So they know quite a bit more than the public does at this point.

ARENA: One would expect that the president and vice president, though I guess the nation would think they should know, may not have access to the detailed information that other folks that have testified had.

NOVAK: That's right. Unless they are serious micromanagers and we don't believe President Bush is one of those, he seems pretty good at delegating, he probably knows -- he knows the broad picture, the things that were important enough to filter up to him. He will be questioned, I assume, about the August 6th's president daily briefing, the now famous document that Condoleezza Rice was questioned about and was declassified after her testimony.

And he'll be questioned, I think, about his reaction to that, that did not have specific warning, that they were going to use airplanes bombs to attack New York and Washington

But what's certainly alarming in some ways and how did he retook the that?

Why did he stay in Texas until the end of the month?

And did he think that -- did that inject any urgency into things as he saw it?

ARENA: What you to expect to be their primary line of questioning?

NOVAK: I think that there are -- they're going start with the beginning of the administration what did President Clinton tell you as you were coming in?

We'll hear -- they'll hear their version of that. And how aggressively they pursued al Qaeda and what kind of warnings they were getting.

ARENA: And obviously interestingly they're testifying together, which can really change the dynamics a bit don't you think?

NOVAK: Yes. It is interesting that they'll be doing that. And normally we think of Vice President Cheney as being sort silent partner in this team, but in this setting it could be he was given more briefings, he may know more about exactly what was known or was going on what kinds of warnings were coming in. But that's something that the public doesn't know very much about at this point. I expect the commission knows more is what did Vice President Cheney know who was briefing him what was he being told and what was his reaction?

ARENA: Right. Right. And, of course, the time restrictions will play a major role here.

NOVAK: Right. They say that there really are no time restrictions, but I do think that the commission will be very conscious of the fact that they're taking out the president and the vice president's time. They're not limited to an hour as originally the White House wanted, but I don't think it is going to go too much longer than that.

ARENA: And against the backdrop of what we keep hearing is even a higher state of alert these days.

NOVAK: Right.

ARENA: That will be interesting. Vivica Fox, thank you very much. Vivica Fox, look what I just did. Can you imagine...

(CROSSTALK)

ARENA: Thanks for joining us.

NOVAK: Take care.

ARENA: Well, taking a stand against the IMF, critics of the world bank are staging a noisy protest against the bank and International Monetary Fund. We'll take you there. Also a Florida school lands in hot water for using students on a road side change gang. We'll have that incredible story.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ARENA: Anti-globalization activists are rallying in the nation's capital. They're protesting the weekend meetings of the World Bank and International Monetary fund.

Sean Callebs is live from Washington with details.

SEAN CALLEBS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: We are right in the heart of the city, only a few blocks from the White House. Behind me you see some of the D.C. Police on horses. There are authorities out here on motorcycles, in cars, helicopters, on bicycles, basicly an impressive show of support by the police. They're going to do everything they can to keep these demonstrations by those opposed to the World Bank and the International Monetary Fund, keep the demonstrations under control. You see the -- right now there are several hundred demonstrators that are making their way here. They began at the Washington Monument.

They had a brief rally there. Saying they're basicly opposed to the World Bank and the IMF for a number of reasons. They say they want the World Bank to hold open meetings. They would like the World Bank to retire debt against developing nations. They say that policy is one that just continues to create a scenario where the rich get richer, the poor get poorer. And lastly this he would also like them to stop environmental devastation. Let me take you back and show you what the authorities are going to do here. Right there that giant white stone, glass front building is the World Bank. You see the police are located in front of there. Here is an area, a pen where the demonstrators are basicly going to be held inside.

Now, on the bottom of that gate there you see there is a stand. There are a number of police officers out here with riot gear and they are going to on those -- on that area if the demonstrators begin to push their way forward, that way they can keep them from shoving the barricade over. They can keep the situation to a minimum. But the World Bank for its part, the members have been shuttled in and out of the building with police escorts. Basicly, they have been shielded. They have been well insulated from the demonstrations. These -- those making their way here should be here in a matter of minutes. Authorities are bracing for the worst, but as always, Kelli, hoping for the best.

ARENA: All right, Sean. We're hoping for best, too, with you out there. Thanks for that report.

Well, protests are another kind of another kind are scheduled to take place Sunday in the nation's capital. One is the March For Women's Lives. Organizers say they're concerned about reproductive freedom and justice. A counter-demonstration called Right March: Operation Witness, is also planned.

Fighting for a political voice this election year, we'll find out why more immigrants are taking an active role as we head towards the November election.

Also, an arrest in a 30-year-old mystery, the murder of an elderly nun. But the suspect comes as a surprise. Details ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ARENA: Here are the latest developments, Americans mourn the death of a true patriot. People are adding personal messages and mementos to a makeshift memorial for former NFL pro Pat Tillman. His former team, the Arizona Cardinals retired his jersey and pledges to name a section of its new stadium after him. Tillman was killed in combat Thursday in Afghanistan.

Reports of devastation from a scene of a train explosion in North Korea. Red Cross and U.N. teams are now on the scene. China's state news agency reports 154 people died in that blast. Dozens of them were children. North Korea blames the disaster on carelessness.

Abortion rights take center stage in the Kerry campaign. Friday, Democratic candidate John Kerry spoke at a rally for abortion right activists who plan a Sunday march on Washington. Kerry spoke just hours after the Catholic Church issued a mandate to deny communion to any politician who supports abortion rights.

The importance of the Hispanic vote in this coming election is well documented. Often south Asians and others are overlooked. After the September 11 attacks they want their voices to be heard. CNN's Alina Cho reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ALINA CHO, CNN CORRESPONDENT, (voice over): They call themselves the 9/11 generation.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Politics and government is no longer something that happens in some far away place. CHO: Young south Asians, Arabs and Muslims, immigrants, some citizens, some not, who want to be heard. They have some of the same concerns as other Americans.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Jobs, health care, war, education.

CHO: And some, like the Patriot Act, that hit closer to home.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The right to not be tortured, the right to a free and public trial.

CHO: The goal of this recent forum in New York was to encourage these young people to speak out about the issues important to them.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If you need anything, you know --.

CHO: Nausheen Iobal one of the organizers is fighting for an education bill called the Dream Act.

NAUSHEEN IOBAL, ORGANIZER THE DREAN ACT: The Dream Act will allow young immigrants to go to college and these are undocumented students who are first and second in their classes. And they can be the future leaders of America. But they are not able to go to college.

CHO: Twenty six year old Nausheen is a citizen and voted in the last two elections. Akshay Sateesh is not.

AKSHAY SATEESH: I'm in this limbo phase. Where I have a green card. And I feel like I'm part of the whole process in this country but I can't have my say in politics.

CHO: So as he waits for citizenship papers to be processed, Akshay helps others register to vote. The census bureau says the Asian-American population grew by nearly 50 percent in the last decade. Making it the fastest growing segment and a little more than 4 percent of the total U.S. population.

Advocates say all immigrants should exercise their right to vote.

TAMAR JACOBY, IMMIGRATION EXPERT: This is a way to show them that they can get something out of being American and that membership can work for you.

CHO: That your voice, if you go to the polls, will be heard. Alina Cho, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ARENA: In the race for the White House, the ad wars continue with the Bush and Kerry campaigns putting some new ads on the airwaves this week. Kerry's message promises a new approach to the violence in Iraq.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN KERRY, (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Let me tell you exactly what I would do to change the situation in Iraq. I would immediately reach out to the international community and sharing the burden, the risk, because they also have a stake in the outcome of what is happening in Iraq.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ARENA: And the Bush ad accuses John Kerry of double speak.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: John Kerry says, a lot of people don't really know who I am. Well, actually, a lot of people do.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Kerry's hometown paper says in his continuing effort to be all things to all voters, John Kerry is engaging in a level of double speak that makes most voters wince.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The "Wall Street Journal" said Kerry's tax plan would mean increasing the tax burden again, which would likely kill the recovery.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: On Iraq...

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ARENA: Those new ads are part of our focus in today's "Political Round table." With me now Democratic strategist Jenny Backus and Republican strategist Ed Rogers.

Hello to both of you.

JENNY BACKUS, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Hello.

ED ROGERS, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Hi.

ARENA: OK, we are revving it up now. Jennie doesn't that Kerry ad just way oversimplifies things, let's get everybody involved to fix this problem.

BACKUS: Absolutely not. I think John Kerry said it best himself, which he very simply said, the best way to change how the world looks at our role in Iraq and how much support we can get is to change a president. That's really clearly how we can send a message. We need to have a president who will tell the truth, a president who is combat tested and battle ready a president who is committed to having NATO and the U.N. share some of the burden. Basically we need a president that will level with the American people about what the cost is and how we're going to get out of Iraq eventually and how we're going to stabilize it.

ARENA: And I want to talk to you about the ad for Bush. Several early criticisms say well he's quoting from right wing newspapers. Isn't that really misleading?

ROGERS: Well it is not misleading at all. I mean Kerry's ads and Kerry's persona right now is trying to move to the center. He's got a record that is well chronicled, well defined, well spoken toward. And it is very much to the left. So the Bush campaign is doing a good job of not letting Kerry get away with double speak and letting Kerry get away from running from his record.

BACKUS: But Ed, do you think it is kind of strange right now that the president of the United States, who is supposed to be the commander in chief and the incumbent. Sort of a higher position, is all of a sudden the only thing that he's saying on the airwaves are attacks against his Democratic opponent? Don't you think that sends some kind of strange message?

ROGERS: It is a political season. And that's his message right now with Kerry; obviously this administration is saying and doing a lot of things on a lot of fronts. Economically of course and the war, the broader war on terrorism, reconstruction of Iraq. There is a lot going on. But yes right now they have a pretty good ad running against Kerry and they don't like it at all.

BACKUS: But again, I'm somewhat troubled by the fact that if George Bush was leading this country in the direction that he says he's leading it, and if he had a record to run on, I think you would see millions of points of ads that --

ARENA: Some say that Kerry is constantly on the defensive.

BACKUS: But he's not.

(CROSSTALK)

BACKUS: That ad that --

ARENA: Let me change gears let's talk about abortion. How much of a role will this play in the upcoming election?

ROGERS: Abortion politics is pretty tried and true by this point. I think what is going to be different this time is the partial- birth bill that was signed. Both houses of Congress overwhelmingly passed a partial-birth abortion procedure ban. The president signed it into law. Kerry is against it. Abortion politics is pretty mature in American politics now. That's the new ingredient.

ARENA: Jenny.

BACKUS: Well I agree and disagree with that. Which is classic here. But I think the major reason why issues about abortion and choice are going to be key is because George Bush won a lot of women by pretending to be a moderate in the last election. He's now got a record, just like he's got a record on the war and his record is one that is actually kind of very frankly for a conservative somewhat surprising.

He wants the government to make all the decisions. He wants the government to make private medical decisions. He sent his attorney general out to take people's private medical records because they chose to have a procedure. And on that bill that he talks about, that's just -- that is just the beginning -- women are going to march tomorrow and men on the mall with groups like Naral (ph) Pro-Choice America because they don't believe the government should be in their bedroom.

ARENA: You know I'm going to give Ed's the last word.

ROGERS: I've got to say abortion politics is pretty mature it is not going drive any new voters. Every one has pretty much made up their mind. The election is going to be about peace and prosperity.

ARENA: All right. We will see. Ed Rogers, Jenny Backus, thank you both for joining us. Sorry we're out of time.

ROGERS: Thanks for having us.

BACKUS: Thanks Kelli.

ARENA: Well this programming note, "Inside Politics Sunday" will have all the day's political news including John Kerry's daughter, Vanessa Kerry, campaigning for him at the massive women's march on Sunday. "Inside Politics" Sunday airs at 10:00 a.m.

New charges in a shroud of secrecy surrounding the latest allegations against the king of pop. Straight ahead in our "Legal Roundtable," we'll examine the latest indictment surrounding Michael Jackson.

Also it not your ordinary class trip. We'll find out why these students hit the road in a major cleanup effort.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ARENA: A school in Pensacola, Florida, faces criminal fraud charges. The state says some students with academic or behavioral problems were actually sent to work on road projects when they were supposed to be in class. CNN's John Zarrella has the story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOHN ZARRELLA, CNN CORRESPONDNET: Parents had nothing to say as they dropped their children off at a Escambia charter school outside Pensacola. If they're worried about the school's future, they're keeping it to themselves. The charter school has been charged by state prosecutors with criminal organized fraud.

RUSS EDGAR, ASST. STATE ATTORNEY: In essence we have alleged that the school is being paid to teach the children and at the same time the school is being paid to remove them from the school during classroom times for weeks on end.

ZARRELLA: Prosecutors say the school was getting money from the State Department of Education to teach 140 at risk kids. At the same time, it was also getting money from the State Department of Transportation. More than a million dollars over the past five years. The contract with the DOT paid the school $16.25 an hour to put each student to work on road crews. Cleaning up rights of way and medians. Of that, students got paid $10 an hour. Putting the students to work was perfectly legal under the State's Youth Work Experience Program. The program allows them the opportunity to get public service work. The problem prosecutors say is that the students spent most of their time working and only a fraction of the required time learning. Prosecutors say the fraud began in 1999 when the school made $40,000 a year in profits.

The school president told the local newspaper the school is now complying with education requirements. The county school superintendent says the school's charter is not being pulled, but --

JIM PAUL, ESCAMBIA COUNTY SCHOOL SUPERINTENDENT: If they're using those students in order to help them -- help that school stay financially afloat, there is a serious problem.

ZARRELLA: State education officials say the local school board had the primary responsibility for ensuring that education money was being used to educate.

JIM HORNE, FLORIDA EDUCATION COMMISSIONER: It is up to the local district. We fund the district. The district funds the charter schools. We don't fund charter schools directly.

ZARRELLA: Prosecutors say the school got away with the fraud by falsifying class attendance records and coarse schedules. County officials say for the sake of the school will remain open at least until the end of the school year.

John Zarrella, CNN, Miami.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ARENA: Checking on other stories making headlines across America, a Roman Catholic priest in Ohio faces murder charges in the death of a nun more than two decades ago. The Reverend Gerald Robinson was arrested yesterday, five months after police reopened the murder investigation. The nun was stabbed 30 times and strangled in 1980. Her body was found in the chapel of the hospital where Robinson served as Chaplin.

North Carolina college student accused of hiding box cutters on airliner has pled guilty. And as part of a plea bargain Nethanal Heatwole has made a video that could be used to train airport screeners. Heatwole says he hid box cutters on airliners to expose security weaknesses. He could get up to six months in jail at his June sentencing.

More than a month into spring, this is what some people in Colorado are seeing. A storm dumped more than a foot of snow on parts of the state yesterday, knocking out power, shutting down schools, and making travel difficult in some places.

We're looking -- I thought we would get some pictures of our -- there they are. This is outside the World Bank and IMF Headquarters where protesters are gathering to protest that meeting there. So far things have been very peaceful. But I can tell you that security is very tight. Just in case there is anything that goes wrong.

In a setback this week for attorneys defending Kobe Bryant against rape charges straight ahead in our "Legal Roundtable." We will examine the ruling against the NBA star and what it could mean for his upcoming trial.

Move over Trump there is a new Donald making headlines in pop culture. That story ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ARENA: The self-proclaimed king of pop will have to prove his innocence in a trial. A California grand jury indicted Michael Jackson this week. The panel's action in the child molestation case was shrouded in secrecy. It is just one of the high profile cases that we'll discuss in our "Legal Roundtable."

Avery Friedman is a civil rights attorney and law professor who joins us from Cleveland.

AVERY FRIEDMAN, CIVIL RIGHTS ATTORNEY: Hi Kelli.

ARENA: Richard Herman. Hi there. Richard Herman is a criminal defense attorney. He joins us from Fort Lauderdale, Florida. Nice and hot where you are.

RICHARD HERMAN, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: We're going swimming after this.

ARENA: Let's start with Michael Jackson. And the fact that he was indicted means there is no preliminary hearing. How important is that? Avery, let's start with you.

FRIEDMAN: Well the choice was for Tom Steaden to make that decision. And the fact is this is a case already dripping with reasonable doubt. So instead of subjecting his witnesses Kelli to being cross-examined by Michael's defense team, he decided to go in secret and got what he wanted. You could indict a ham sandwich before a grand jury. That's exactly what happened. So we're going to learn on Friday what the specific charges are. Take you to the bank. It is going to be a variation on the theme, but Michael will have to make that appearance on Friday. We'll see what the judge has to say.

HERMAN: And Kelli what we will also learn on Friday is this, we will see if Ben Brafman has any control over his client, because if Jackson walks into that courtroom with that studio army garb on with the arm bands and he moon walks on top cars of cars outside afterwards, you'll know at the point Brafman has no control over him.

But if he comes in on time, as a gentleman, and leaves promptly afterwards, if I was Tom Sneddon I wouldn't be sleeping too good at night. Because I don't believe Sneddon has seen the likes of a Ben Brafman in the courtroom.

ARENA: All right. Let's move to Kobe Bryant. We got a lot to cover. Kobe Bryant now the judge decided not to release the alleged victim's medical records.

FRIEDMAN: Right.

HERMAN: Well that's not that bad. Because let's just say that there are particular friends of the alleged victim, eyewitnesses who have seen her prior suicide attempts or have seen her and observed her, perhaps take prescription or nonprescription drugs. That will be admissible. The judge is...

ARENA: What you're saying is they can get around it.

HERMAN: They can get around it at this point.

FRIEDMAN: The other part of it is that the Judge Ruckriegle had it right. The question was the Sacrosanct of communications between a doctor and a patient. And what the defense team was trying to do Kelli was get into those records and find out by subpoenaing the health care providers. Well the judge quashed those subpoenas and said, you know what you have another way of getting that information. You're not going to invade the sacrosanct of that relationship.

HERMAN: But you Kelli I believe if the alleged victim testifies contrary to the information in those records, that the defense will renew their application and the judge may let them in at that point.

FRIEDMAN: Well they are not going to get them now.

ARENA: Let me ask you, what about the sexual history. Is there any chance that either of you see that those -- that would be...

HERMAN: Absolutely, because if this alleged victim had sex shortly before or immediately after the alleged time that she had sex with Kobe Bryant, at that point those records are absolutely going to be admissible because the victim is going to claim certain physical evidence, certain tearing, certain bruising that she sustained.

FRIEDMAN: Well that's different than the history though. You are not going to get the history of this individual into evidence.

HERMAN: Not the whole history.

FRIEDMAN: The individual behavior before and after I don't disagree with.

ARENA: It depends on your definition of history, I guess. Right? I guess it depends on your definition of history.

FRIEDMAN: Right, your not going to find out what this individual was doing a year ago, two years ago.

HERMAN: No that is irrelevant.

FRIEDMAN: The point of what happened around that time is clearly going to be able to -- they'll argue and get it into evidence.

HERMAN: And rightfully so. ARENA: All right, well one more thing if I can. Will the discovery of Dru Sjodin's body make a difference in that? Because obviously it will, but how much of a difference?

FRIEDMAN: A huge difference. Because now we have an individual, this Alfonzo Rodriguez is a certified registered sex offender, now because they have the body, we have evidence of Rodriguez engaged and interesting we're looking at possible federal charges and a possible death penalty.

HERMAN: You know Kelli, these types of cases this Dru Sjodin and this Carlie Brucia; they really test the fortitude of a defense attorney. I couldn't represent either of these guys. I just hope that justice is served quickly. The police work was good. And they get quick resolution and that these guys pay the price for what they've done. It is gut wrenching, both these cases.

ARENA: Well you're absolutely right. All right, Avery Friedman, Richard Herman I want to thank you, both, for joining us. Get out there and enjoy this wonderful day.

HERMAN: Thank you Kelli.

FRIEDMAN: We'll see you soon.

ARENA: Well our Web site is your legal link to the high profile cases making headlines. So logon to CNN.com/law for the latest developments as well as legal opinions and analysis.

Well a defensive stance now put to music. Up next, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld's greatest lines performed on stage.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ARENA: Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld is known for his musings. Now those statements have become music. Two composers have used Rummy's words in their songs, but is the defense secretary taking offense? CNN's Jeanne Moos has more.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JEANNE MOOS, CNN CORRESPONDNET: When Donald Rumsfeld briefed reporters; little did he know he was writing songs.

DONALD RUMSFELD, DEFENSE SECRETARY: There are known unknowns. That is to say there are things that we now know we don't know.

(SINGING)

RUMSFELD: But there are also unknown unknowns.

(SINGING)

MOOS: Who knew two composers, one on the West Coast one on the East Coast would separately put Secretary Rumsfeld's words to music.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Rumsfeld is like the singer and dancer of language. He just spins stuff. He loves it you can tell.

MOOS: Rumsfeld's words were first collected in a book of poetry. Now poetry has become song.

RUMSFELD: Everyone is so eager to get the story before in fact the story is there that the world is constantly being fed things that haven't happened.

(SINGING)

ELENDOR WALL, SOPRANO: I've become very good at keeping a straight face.

MOOS: Soprano Elender Wall was asked by her composer friend Bryant Kong to perform the Rumsfeld songs. And no, they're not fans of the defense secretary's policies. Phil Kline even made a song out of the defense secretary's reaction to TV replays of looting in Iraq.

RUMSFELD: It is the same picture of some person walking out of some building with a vase.

PHIL KLINE: It is the same picture of some person walking out of some building with a vase.

MOOS: Both composers have released CDs. You can't imagine a song like this ever being played on a radio and becoming a hit song.

KLINE: Why not?

MOOS: Rummy number one on the hit parade?

RUMSFELD: There are things we do not know we don't know. We don't know.

MOOS: And if you want to know what Secretary Rumsfeld thinks --

RUMSFELD: Are you talking about that silly compact disc that some opera singer sings my press conferences.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There is more than one.

RUMSFELD: Now if that doesn't tell you something about the state of the world.

MOOS: Next thing you know that will be on a CD.

RUMSFELD: The world thinks all these things happen, they never happened.

(SINGING)

MOOS: Jeanne Moos, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ARENA: Well there is much more ahead on CNN SATURDAY. At the top of the hour, "NEXT@CNN." At 4:00, CNN LIVE SATURDAY and "Dollar Sign," what you need to know what you're selling a home. Experts answer you call and emails.

At 5:00 "PEOPLE IN THE NEWS" profiling pop star Michael Jackson and his grandjury indictment this week on child molestation charges. But first, Daniel Sieberg with a preview of "NEXT@CNN."

DANIEL SIEBERG, CNN ANCHOR: This week, "NEXT@CNN" comes to you from Fathom Studios, where they are making the first major animated feature outside of Hollywood. We'll show you what kind of technology and genius went into it, right after a check of the day's top stories.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com