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Stunt Pilot Dies In Florida; Is Iraq Better Off A Year Later?

Aired May 01, 2004 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


BETTY NGUYEN, CNN ANCHOR: What a difference a year makes. Will this famous photo op come back to haunt President Bush? We'll handicap its impact on the presidential race.
A different kind of race this is Louisville today. We're live at the Kentucky Derby, the most exciting two minutes in sports.

And before you try to buy that house of your dreams, make sure your credit report earns a passing grade. Our experts answer your questions on "Dollar Signs" coming up at the half hour. E-mail your questions to dollarsigns@CNN.com or call us toll free 1-800-8072620.

Welcome and welcome to CNN LIVE SATURDAY. I'm Betty Nguyen. These stories much more coming up after this check of this hour's top stories.

Law enforcement sources say last night's assault on Supreme Court Justice David Souter was probably a random act. Souter suffered only minor injuries when two men jumped him as he was jogging by the Potomac River in Washington.

The U.S. embassy says two Americans were among several westerners killed in Saudi Arabia today. Four militants entered a compound in Yanbu and opened fire. Two of the gunmen later blew themselves up in a car. Security killed the other two.

Fallujah residents who fled the troubled Iraqi city are returning by the thousands. U.S. officials yesterday announced a deal for an Iraqi force to take control of the city and end its bloody siege.

We begin with more charges of coalition troops abusing Iraqi prisoners. Six U.S. soldiers are already charged with mistreating Iraqi captives. Their actions caught on disturbing photos. Now British troops are facing similar accusations. Robyn Curnow reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ROBYN CURNOW, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): On sale in newsstands across England, published in the "Daily Mirror," pictures of British soldiers apparently mistreating Iraqi prisoners. The newspapers showing images what appears to be British force beating an Iraqi suspect and urinating on him, claims of torture for hours on end. The "Daily Mirror" saying it obtained the photographs from serving British soldiers. The U.K. Ministry of Defense launching an immediate investigation.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If proven, not only is such appalling conduct clearly unlawful, but it also be contravenes the British army's high standards, the allegation are already under investigation.

CURNOW: Prime Minister Tony Blair's office condemned the acts and endorsed a military investigation, but Amnesty International calling for a wider, independent inquiry.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's important that the public knows what the British army is doing in Iraq. It's important for Iraqis that they can trust the British army on the streets and feel that if their relatives have been taken into custody, they will be at least looked after and certainly, certainly not tortured.

CURNOW: All as British troops continue to try to win the hearts and minds of Iraqis and the wider Arab community.

Politically it's not good, all these photographs go around the Middle East and the Islamic world and (UNINTELLIGIBLE) shapes through al-Jazeera and other TV stations and give a very poor image of our country.

CURNOW (on camera): Claims of British human rights violations coming a day after pictures air on American television of alleged abuse of Iraqi prisoners by U.S. soldiers. Two sets of disturbing images in two days, seen against a volatile and violent backdrop. Many speculating on the backlash here in Britain, these images threaten to undermine public confidence in an already unpopular war. These claims of British misconduct coming at a time when the government is being urged to send more troops to Iraq because other coalition partners are scaling back their military commitments.

Robyn Curnow at CNN, London.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

NGUYEN: The situation in Iraq seemed much different one year ago. It was then that President Bush made his famous speech aboard an aircraft carrier underneath a mission accomplished banner. Today, the anniversary was on many words. CNN White House correspondent, Suzanne Malveaux joins us now -- Suzanne.

SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well Betty, it was one year ago that President Bush was aboard the USS Abraham Lincoln, that is when he declared major combat over in Iraq. It was in front of a banner that said mission accomplished.

Since then, more than 600 Americans have been killed in Iraq. It was just this past April that was the bloodiest month with 139 U.S. soldiers killed.

President Bush today used his weekly radio address to make the case that despite the violence that life is better for the Iraqi people, for Mr. Bush's critics, however, they point to his declarations that day and they say that has come to symbolize the administration's failures now.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP) GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: A year ago, I declared an end to major combat operations in Iraq after coalition forces conducted one of the swiftest, most successful and humane campaigns in military history.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My question for President Bush who led the planning of this war so long ago is this: when will you take responsibility for the decisions you've made in Iraq and realize that something is wrong with the way things are going. Mr. President, our mission is not accomplished.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

SUZANNE: While, the president points to the progress in Iraq in electric power, healthcare and education, it is his critics point out the insurgencies in Fallujah as well as Najaf saying they threaten to undermine the stability of that will country and of tranferring power to the Iraqi people by June 30 -- Betty.

NGUYEN: Suzanne Malveaux at the White House, thank you.

The war in Iraq has been costly, not only in human terms, but financial terms as well. The Pentagon calls is the burn rate. Estimates put the cost of the conflict at $4 billion a month. Now, that figure has grown closer to $5 billion.

In addition, one member of the House Armed Services Committee says the Army now needs $6 billion more. It would cover the cost of more armored humvees, body armor, munitions and unmanned aerial vehicles.

Coming up later in the show, two guests tackle the question: has the mission been accomplished in Iraq? Stay tuned to CNN LIVE SATURDAY.

Supreme Court justice David Souter was assaulted Friday night as he jogged on a street in Washington. The justice was attacked by two young men, but he escaped with only minor injuries. CNN's Kathleen Koch has the story -- Kathleen.

KATHLEEN KOCH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Betty, at this point, this appears to have been a random attack that occurred Friday night while Justice Souter was out jogging on Capitol Hill. Supreme Court spokeswoman Kathy Arberg says it was around 9:00 p.m. when several young man assaulted the justice. Arberg would not characterize the motivation for the attack, but she did say that Justice Souter had not been robbed.

Afterwards, the justice contacted Supreme Court police who took him to Washington Hospital Center. There, doctors examined Souter, determined that he suffered only minor injuries and he was released early this morning.

The 64 year-old justice is one of the younger members of the U.S. Supreme Court. He jogs on a regular basis. It was just eight years ago that another justice, Routh Bader Ginsberg was a victim of crime on Washington streets. Ginsberg's purse was snatched from her while she was walking with her family near the Kennedy Center. She was not harmed though.

There have been right now no arrests yet in Justice Souter's case, but clearly such an attack may prompt a review of the security that is provided for the nation's Supreme Court justices -- Betty.

NGUYEN: Without a doubt. Kathleen Koch in Washington, thank you.

Well, does a year really make a difference? Is Iraq in better shape now than when President Bush declared an end to major combat or should the coalition just have stayed out. That debate when we come back.

And coming up at the half hour, your credit report. Got questions? We've got answers. Just e-mail your question to dollarsigns@CNN.com or call us at 1-800--807-2620. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

NGUYEN: Who could forget this scene from a year ago? President Bush addressed U.S. troops and the nation from the flight deck of the USS Abraham Lincoln, he and declared the end of major combat in Iraq. 741 U.S. troops have been killed in the war so far. 602 of them lost their lives since President Bush's speech aboard that carrier.

The president stood under a banner that said mission accomplished, but has it been? Joining us are Phil Gingrey, a Republican Congressman from Georgia and Edward Peck, a former U.S. ambassador to Iraq. Both are in Washington today. We thank you for joining us.

Congressman Gingrey, let's start with you. Major combat is clearly not over. Looking back, how big of a mistake was that sign?

REP. PHIL GINGREY (R) GEORGIA: First of all, I'm not sure who is responsible for that sign, but the mission clearly was not completely accomplished, although, the president, I think spoke accurately in saying that major combat had ended. But he did go on in that speech to say that a lot more work was in front of us, and the end of the reign of terror certainly was not over and we had a lot more work to do.

NGUYEN: Mr. Peck, your thoughts about the sign?

EDWARD PECK, FRM. AMB TO IRAQ: Well, the sign was just a symbol. It didn't really mean anything. It's become a political football, but the clear point I think is that we, Americans, had the idea that with Saddam removed from power, we had accomplished our objectove and we would be welcomed as heroes and liberators and that was wrong before we started and has certainly proven wrong since.

NGUYEN: Mr. Peck, let's continue on that. How much order and peace have we brought to Iraq? Have we accomplished our mission? PECK: No. I don't think so. I'm not an Iraqi, so I can't speak for them, but I can speak about them. The Iraqis did not welcome us, however bad Saddam Hussein was. You know, they've experienced occupation before. They don't like it. Nobody does, but the Iraqis have been there, that's been done to them.

And what we have done since then has certainly not won us any hearts and minds, not even to mention this last horror of the torture that's just been reveal revealed.

NGUYEN: Congressman Gingrey, do you think we brought some kind of order and peace to the idea.

GINGREY: Well, I think we have, and I think a lot of what we see is bad PR. We don't like it, we don't like the fact that six or eight members of the military police reserve brigade and some of the British soldiers were involved in torturing prisoners.

But you're talking about 167,000 troops there that are working very hard to secure Iraq and to bring some Democratic form of government to them. I think in the news, we're seeing the worst, but there's a lot of good, ang I truly believe that we are going to bring that to the Iraqi people if we just stay course.

NGUYEN: And staying the course, what will it take to meet the June 30 deadline, in your opinion?

GINGREY: I think we'll meet that June 30 deadline. I think it's very important that we do that. We have made a commitment to the Iraqi people. As the ambassador just said, they don't like the occupation and nobody does, the president said that very clearly to us. And we need to show them when we give our word, we keep it and that we will turn over at least civilian control and authority to the Iraqi people.

That doesn't mean it's yet time to pull our military out and clearly, the security of that country is not there yet and we need to stay and as we continue to rebuild the Iraqi military and the civilian defense force.

NGUYEN: Mr. Peck, can we do it by June 30?

PECK: Well, you know, it's an interesting thing, June 30. We don't know what we're turning over. And we have no idea to whom we are turning it over. And it seems almost farcical to keep talking about turning over sovereignty when, in fact, we're going to be running the country.

There are going to be some figureheads standing around. Heaven knows who's going to pick them, heaven knows how much support they're going to have, and we're not really turning over anything to anybody. And we will be staying there for a long time.

I have to make a point here. Think about this for a second. By definition, you cannot impose democracy, and that is what we have determined we're going to do, they're going to be democratic whether they like it or not and that is not democracy. An imposed democracy is a dictatorship.

NGUYEN: So what direction should coalition forces take as they look ahead?

PECK: Well, my suggestion would be, and I must admit that as the Congressman should know, nobody's asked me, we should find every way imaginable to get out of there in a manner that leaves the country with some chance of success in running itself. United Nations forces, other Muslim country forces, somebody.

But the Americans I don't think can stay there without a tremendous cost being charged to the American people in many different ways and places for a long time to come. And I hope, I am wrong.

NGUYEN: Congressman Gingrey, I'm going to give you the last word here, your thoughts?

GINGREY: Well, I think the ambassador sounded like Congressman Dennis Kucinich and former candidate Howard Dean in regard to that. This is not the time for to us cut and run or to turn this responsibility over to the United Nations. Look what they did with the oil for food program.

The United States is the greatest country on Earth and it's our responsibility to lead the charge against worldwide terrorism. And I commend this president as a great commander in chief and we will stay the course.

NGUYEN: All right, Congressman Gingery, and Mr. Peck, we thank you for joining us.

Stunt planes are exhilarating to watch, and by all reports, it's exhilerating to perform as well, but a crash Friday that killed one of the world's best stunt pilots is a reminder that it's also very dangerous. CNN's John Zarrella joins us live from Fort Lauderdale, Florida, where the McDonald's Air and Sea Show is underway. Good afternoon, John.

JOHN ZARRELLA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good afternoon, Betty. Well, about a million people here. Many of that million behind me, gathered for the air and sea show, and we are in the final act, the grand finale, the Blue Angels -- I'm sure all of our viewers analystners heard and saw that.

The U.S. Navy's Blue Angels flying today. The F-18 Hornets. This is the last act today. It has been a terrific day.

Give you a chance to listen and see a little bit of what's going on.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ZARRELLA (voice over): To Ian Groom, the love for flying was a passion from the time he was a boy. An aerobatics performer, Groom's limit on this flight was about 40 of these snap rolls in 20 seconds. Groom was one of the best in the world at what he did. Because he was Immigrations and Custom's officials, part of Homeland Security, sought him out in the days after 9/11.

IAN GROOM, AEROBATICS PILOT: I was performing at the air show, and three agents came up to see me and asked me how would I like to help the country? How would I like to serve?

ZARRELLA: Groom was asked if he was willing to teach customs pilots how to get out of bad situations and how to avoid poor decisions.

ROBERT VIATOR, IMMIGRATION & CUSTOMS PILOT: We'll get a guy who comes to us with a helicopter background and we will transition him to fixed wing, but what he grew up with is helicopter recovery technique. And we need to have what Ian tries to focus on, is breaking that habit, and getting him used to recover an airplane the way an airplane needs to recover.

ZARRELLA: Groom instructed more than 100 Customs pilots, who every day are flying missions to protect the nation's cities and watch its borders. He took no money. For Groom, an immigrant from South Africa, it was a way for him and his family to say thank you.

GROOM: America's just been such a great opportunity for us, and giving something is back just our way of making ourselves feel good.

ZARRELLA: Customs officials say every pilot who completed Groom's course is better for it.

VIATOR: Ian starts every course with the pilots that are there with these words. He says there's nothing can you do in this airplane that's going to impress me. There's nothing can you do in this airplane that's going to scare me. So let's go out and learn.

ZARRELLA: Groom performed before 4.5 million people every year at air shows, but his greatest satisfaction came, he told me, from teaching the men and women who protect the homeland.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ZARRELLA: Now, Ian Groom, the gentleman you just saw profiled in that piece, we had a chance to spend a couple of days earlier this week preparing that piece. Well, yesterday, Ian Groom died, his plane crashed in the Atlantis a few 100 yards off where we are standing right now as he was preparing for the airshow today.

In fact, the Blue Angels, the demonstration they are putting on right now, is dedicated to Ian Groom, to his memory and to his family. This is John Zarrella reporting live from Ft. Lauderdale Beach.

NGUYEN: John, air shows are always exciting, but in light of that crash yesterday, did you feel a sense of nervousness among the crowd?

ZARRELLA: No, not really. You know, what we hear, of course, Betty is that you hear about these crashes at air shows and I think we'll probably watch a little bit of this video of the F-18 Hornets and the Blue Angels while we're talking here, they happen, but the experts say, you know, they don't happen as often as they used to. And for the most part, they are very, very safe.

I can tell you that the beach has been absolutely packed with people. If there was any indication that anybody was afraid or that people were staying away because of what happened, certainly no sign of that in the crowd. And much of today's activities were dedicated to the memory of Ian Groom.

And in fact Betty, every one of the pilots, whether they are the stunt pilots that are here, or whether they are the military pilots flying these high performance jets, these are the best in the world flying these planes. And whatever it is that caused Ian Groom's accident yesterday, certainly had to have been a very, very freak accident -- Betty.

NGUYEN: A lot of questions there. Do you have any information as to that investigation and how it's going at this point?

ZARRELLA: At this point, all the results of initial results of the tested by the coroner indicate that it was blunt trauma and drowning, which means that Ian Groom passed away when his plane hit the water.

What happened up in the sky as he was performing some of his practice demonstrations, his rolls, those spin rolls that he does, if something happened to him up there, at this point we don't know. Just that when he hit the water it was blunt trauma and drowning that caused his death.

NGUYEN: OK. John Zarrella live from Fort Lauderdale, Florida, thank you.

Josie Burke joins us from Louisville when we come back with last minute jitters running up to the 130th Kentucky Derby.

And coming up at 4:30 Eastern, 1:30 Pacific, your credit report, is it in good shape? What do you need to do to ensure you have good credit. Email your questions to dollarsigns@CNN.com or you can call 1-800-807-2620. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

NGUYEN: There are possible weather problems at the Kentucky Derby today. We want to go by phone to CNN's Josie Burke to talk about the race. And the big question is, how is the weather holding out.

JOSIE BURKE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's not holding out well Betty. Because last time we spoke a couple hours ago, the sun had come out, everything had dried out, the storms that had been through in the morning were no longer present, but just a couple of minutes ago, the heavens opened up, torrential downpour, thunder and lightning. So, I'm talking to you on the phone, because it's really not safe to be standing outside.

The whole complexion of the race changes now because we're about an hour and a half, an hour and 40 minutes away from post time. So, there is a good chance that it will change to a sloppy or muddy. And then you have to look at, which horses have an experiences in this 18 horse field, running on an off-track.

I can tell you that Smarty Jones, one of the favorites, he won the Arkansas Derby on a muddy track. So, that's one of the horses that might hold up well in a situation where the track isn't in an ideal situation. Birdstone, who is the long shot at 50-1, Pollard's Vision and Song of the Sword all broke their maidens on muddy track so they have some experience. And also Imperialism, the horse that's trained by the 21-year-old woman, Kristin Mulhall, that horse has had experience on tracks that aren't not exactly in perfect condition -- Betty.

NGUYEN: All right. CNN's Josie Burke at the Kentucky Derby.

Well, how is your credit? What about your credit report? That's the topic of our "Dollar Signs" segment coming up. Send your questions to us at dollarsigns@CNN.com or call 1-800-807-2620. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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Aired May 1, 2004 - 16:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BETTY NGUYEN, CNN ANCHOR: What a difference a year makes. Will this famous photo op come back to haunt President Bush? We'll handicap its impact on the presidential race.
A different kind of race this is Louisville today. We're live at the Kentucky Derby, the most exciting two minutes in sports.

And before you try to buy that house of your dreams, make sure your credit report earns a passing grade. Our experts answer your questions on "Dollar Signs" coming up at the half hour. E-mail your questions to dollarsigns@CNN.com or call us toll free 1-800-8072620.

Welcome and welcome to CNN LIVE SATURDAY. I'm Betty Nguyen. These stories much more coming up after this check of this hour's top stories.

Law enforcement sources say last night's assault on Supreme Court Justice David Souter was probably a random act. Souter suffered only minor injuries when two men jumped him as he was jogging by the Potomac River in Washington.

The U.S. embassy says two Americans were among several westerners killed in Saudi Arabia today. Four militants entered a compound in Yanbu and opened fire. Two of the gunmen later blew themselves up in a car. Security killed the other two.

Fallujah residents who fled the troubled Iraqi city are returning by the thousands. U.S. officials yesterday announced a deal for an Iraqi force to take control of the city and end its bloody siege.

We begin with more charges of coalition troops abusing Iraqi prisoners. Six U.S. soldiers are already charged with mistreating Iraqi captives. Their actions caught on disturbing photos. Now British troops are facing similar accusations. Robyn Curnow reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ROBYN CURNOW, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): On sale in newsstands across England, published in the "Daily Mirror," pictures of British soldiers apparently mistreating Iraqi prisoners. The newspapers showing images what appears to be British force beating an Iraqi suspect and urinating on him, claims of torture for hours on end. The "Daily Mirror" saying it obtained the photographs from serving British soldiers. The U.K. Ministry of Defense launching an immediate investigation.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If proven, not only is such appalling conduct clearly unlawful, but it also be contravenes the British army's high standards, the allegation are already under investigation.

CURNOW: Prime Minister Tony Blair's office condemned the acts and endorsed a military investigation, but Amnesty International calling for a wider, independent inquiry.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's important that the public knows what the British army is doing in Iraq. It's important for Iraqis that they can trust the British army on the streets and feel that if their relatives have been taken into custody, they will be at least looked after and certainly, certainly not tortured.

CURNOW: All as British troops continue to try to win the hearts and minds of Iraqis and the wider Arab community.

Politically it's not good, all these photographs go around the Middle East and the Islamic world and (UNINTELLIGIBLE) shapes through al-Jazeera and other TV stations and give a very poor image of our country.

CURNOW (on camera): Claims of British human rights violations coming a day after pictures air on American television of alleged abuse of Iraqi prisoners by U.S. soldiers. Two sets of disturbing images in two days, seen against a volatile and violent backdrop. Many speculating on the backlash here in Britain, these images threaten to undermine public confidence in an already unpopular war. These claims of British misconduct coming at a time when the government is being urged to send more troops to Iraq because other coalition partners are scaling back their military commitments.

Robyn Curnow at CNN, London.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

NGUYEN: The situation in Iraq seemed much different one year ago. It was then that President Bush made his famous speech aboard an aircraft carrier underneath a mission accomplished banner. Today, the anniversary was on many words. CNN White House correspondent, Suzanne Malveaux joins us now -- Suzanne.

SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well Betty, it was one year ago that President Bush was aboard the USS Abraham Lincoln, that is when he declared major combat over in Iraq. It was in front of a banner that said mission accomplished.

Since then, more than 600 Americans have been killed in Iraq. It was just this past April that was the bloodiest month with 139 U.S. soldiers killed.

President Bush today used his weekly radio address to make the case that despite the violence that life is better for the Iraqi people, for Mr. Bush's critics, however, they point to his declarations that day and they say that has come to symbolize the administration's failures now.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP) GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: A year ago, I declared an end to major combat operations in Iraq after coalition forces conducted one of the swiftest, most successful and humane campaigns in military history.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My question for President Bush who led the planning of this war so long ago is this: when will you take responsibility for the decisions you've made in Iraq and realize that something is wrong with the way things are going. Mr. President, our mission is not accomplished.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

SUZANNE: While, the president points to the progress in Iraq in electric power, healthcare and education, it is his critics point out the insurgencies in Fallujah as well as Najaf saying they threaten to undermine the stability of that will country and of tranferring power to the Iraqi people by June 30 -- Betty.

NGUYEN: Suzanne Malveaux at the White House, thank you.

The war in Iraq has been costly, not only in human terms, but financial terms as well. The Pentagon calls is the burn rate. Estimates put the cost of the conflict at $4 billion a month. Now, that figure has grown closer to $5 billion.

In addition, one member of the House Armed Services Committee says the Army now needs $6 billion more. It would cover the cost of more armored humvees, body armor, munitions and unmanned aerial vehicles.

Coming up later in the show, two guests tackle the question: has the mission been accomplished in Iraq? Stay tuned to CNN LIVE SATURDAY.

Supreme Court justice David Souter was assaulted Friday night as he jogged on a street in Washington. The justice was attacked by two young men, but he escaped with only minor injuries. CNN's Kathleen Koch has the story -- Kathleen.

KATHLEEN KOCH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Betty, at this point, this appears to have been a random attack that occurred Friday night while Justice Souter was out jogging on Capitol Hill. Supreme Court spokeswoman Kathy Arberg says it was around 9:00 p.m. when several young man assaulted the justice. Arberg would not characterize the motivation for the attack, but she did say that Justice Souter had not been robbed.

Afterwards, the justice contacted Supreme Court police who took him to Washington Hospital Center. There, doctors examined Souter, determined that he suffered only minor injuries and he was released early this morning.

The 64 year-old justice is one of the younger members of the U.S. Supreme Court. He jogs on a regular basis. It was just eight years ago that another justice, Routh Bader Ginsberg was a victim of crime on Washington streets. Ginsberg's purse was snatched from her while she was walking with her family near the Kennedy Center. She was not harmed though.

There have been right now no arrests yet in Justice Souter's case, but clearly such an attack may prompt a review of the security that is provided for the nation's Supreme Court justices -- Betty.

NGUYEN: Without a doubt. Kathleen Koch in Washington, thank you.

Well, does a year really make a difference? Is Iraq in better shape now than when President Bush declared an end to major combat or should the coalition just have stayed out. That debate when we come back.

And coming up at the half hour, your credit report. Got questions? We've got answers. Just e-mail your question to dollarsigns@CNN.com or call us at 1-800--807-2620. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

NGUYEN: Who could forget this scene from a year ago? President Bush addressed U.S. troops and the nation from the flight deck of the USS Abraham Lincoln, he and declared the end of major combat in Iraq. 741 U.S. troops have been killed in the war so far. 602 of them lost their lives since President Bush's speech aboard that carrier.

The president stood under a banner that said mission accomplished, but has it been? Joining us are Phil Gingrey, a Republican Congressman from Georgia and Edward Peck, a former U.S. ambassador to Iraq. Both are in Washington today. We thank you for joining us.

Congressman Gingrey, let's start with you. Major combat is clearly not over. Looking back, how big of a mistake was that sign?

REP. PHIL GINGREY (R) GEORGIA: First of all, I'm not sure who is responsible for that sign, but the mission clearly was not completely accomplished, although, the president, I think spoke accurately in saying that major combat had ended. But he did go on in that speech to say that a lot more work was in front of us, and the end of the reign of terror certainly was not over and we had a lot more work to do.

NGUYEN: Mr. Peck, your thoughts about the sign?

EDWARD PECK, FRM. AMB TO IRAQ: Well, the sign was just a symbol. It didn't really mean anything. It's become a political football, but the clear point I think is that we, Americans, had the idea that with Saddam removed from power, we had accomplished our objectove and we would be welcomed as heroes and liberators and that was wrong before we started and has certainly proven wrong since.

NGUYEN: Mr. Peck, let's continue on that. How much order and peace have we brought to Iraq? Have we accomplished our mission? PECK: No. I don't think so. I'm not an Iraqi, so I can't speak for them, but I can speak about them. The Iraqis did not welcome us, however bad Saddam Hussein was. You know, they've experienced occupation before. They don't like it. Nobody does, but the Iraqis have been there, that's been done to them.

And what we have done since then has certainly not won us any hearts and minds, not even to mention this last horror of the torture that's just been reveal revealed.

NGUYEN: Congressman Gingrey, do you think we brought some kind of order and peace to the idea.

GINGREY: Well, I think we have, and I think a lot of what we see is bad PR. We don't like it, we don't like the fact that six or eight members of the military police reserve brigade and some of the British soldiers were involved in torturing prisoners.

But you're talking about 167,000 troops there that are working very hard to secure Iraq and to bring some Democratic form of government to them. I think in the news, we're seeing the worst, but there's a lot of good, ang I truly believe that we are going to bring that to the Iraqi people if we just stay course.

NGUYEN: And staying the course, what will it take to meet the June 30 deadline, in your opinion?

GINGREY: I think we'll meet that June 30 deadline. I think it's very important that we do that. We have made a commitment to the Iraqi people. As the ambassador just said, they don't like the occupation and nobody does, the president said that very clearly to us. And we need to show them when we give our word, we keep it and that we will turn over at least civilian control and authority to the Iraqi people.

That doesn't mean it's yet time to pull our military out and clearly, the security of that country is not there yet and we need to stay and as we continue to rebuild the Iraqi military and the civilian defense force.

NGUYEN: Mr. Peck, can we do it by June 30?

PECK: Well, you know, it's an interesting thing, June 30. We don't know what we're turning over. And we have no idea to whom we are turning it over. And it seems almost farcical to keep talking about turning over sovereignty when, in fact, we're going to be running the country.

There are going to be some figureheads standing around. Heaven knows who's going to pick them, heaven knows how much support they're going to have, and we're not really turning over anything to anybody. And we will be staying there for a long time.

I have to make a point here. Think about this for a second. By definition, you cannot impose democracy, and that is what we have determined we're going to do, they're going to be democratic whether they like it or not and that is not democracy. An imposed democracy is a dictatorship.

NGUYEN: So what direction should coalition forces take as they look ahead?

PECK: Well, my suggestion would be, and I must admit that as the Congressman should know, nobody's asked me, we should find every way imaginable to get out of there in a manner that leaves the country with some chance of success in running itself. United Nations forces, other Muslim country forces, somebody.

But the Americans I don't think can stay there without a tremendous cost being charged to the American people in many different ways and places for a long time to come. And I hope, I am wrong.

NGUYEN: Congressman Gingrey, I'm going to give you the last word here, your thoughts?

GINGREY: Well, I think the ambassador sounded like Congressman Dennis Kucinich and former candidate Howard Dean in regard to that. This is not the time for to us cut and run or to turn this responsibility over to the United Nations. Look what they did with the oil for food program.

The United States is the greatest country on Earth and it's our responsibility to lead the charge against worldwide terrorism. And I commend this president as a great commander in chief and we will stay the course.

NGUYEN: All right, Congressman Gingery, and Mr. Peck, we thank you for joining us.

Stunt planes are exhilarating to watch, and by all reports, it's exhilerating to perform as well, but a crash Friday that killed one of the world's best stunt pilots is a reminder that it's also very dangerous. CNN's John Zarrella joins us live from Fort Lauderdale, Florida, where the McDonald's Air and Sea Show is underway. Good afternoon, John.

JOHN ZARRELLA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good afternoon, Betty. Well, about a million people here. Many of that million behind me, gathered for the air and sea show, and we are in the final act, the grand finale, the Blue Angels -- I'm sure all of our viewers analystners heard and saw that.

The U.S. Navy's Blue Angels flying today. The F-18 Hornets. This is the last act today. It has been a terrific day.

Give you a chance to listen and see a little bit of what's going on.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ZARRELLA (voice over): To Ian Groom, the love for flying was a passion from the time he was a boy. An aerobatics performer, Groom's limit on this flight was about 40 of these snap rolls in 20 seconds. Groom was one of the best in the world at what he did. Because he was Immigrations and Custom's officials, part of Homeland Security, sought him out in the days after 9/11.

IAN GROOM, AEROBATICS PILOT: I was performing at the air show, and three agents came up to see me and asked me how would I like to help the country? How would I like to serve?

ZARRELLA: Groom was asked if he was willing to teach customs pilots how to get out of bad situations and how to avoid poor decisions.

ROBERT VIATOR, IMMIGRATION & CUSTOMS PILOT: We'll get a guy who comes to us with a helicopter background and we will transition him to fixed wing, but what he grew up with is helicopter recovery technique. And we need to have what Ian tries to focus on, is breaking that habit, and getting him used to recover an airplane the way an airplane needs to recover.

ZARRELLA: Groom instructed more than 100 Customs pilots, who every day are flying missions to protect the nation's cities and watch its borders. He took no money. For Groom, an immigrant from South Africa, it was a way for him and his family to say thank you.

GROOM: America's just been such a great opportunity for us, and giving something is back just our way of making ourselves feel good.

ZARRELLA: Customs officials say every pilot who completed Groom's course is better for it.

VIATOR: Ian starts every course with the pilots that are there with these words. He says there's nothing can you do in this airplane that's going to impress me. There's nothing can you do in this airplane that's going to scare me. So let's go out and learn.

ZARRELLA: Groom performed before 4.5 million people every year at air shows, but his greatest satisfaction came, he told me, from teaching the men and women who protect the homeland.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ZARRELLA: Now, Ian Groom, the gentleman you just saw profiled in that piece, we had a chance to spend a couple of days earlier this week preparing that piece. Well, yesterday, Ian Groom died, his plane crashed in the Atlantis a few 100 yards off where we are standing right now as he was preparing for the airshow today.

In fact, the Blue Angels, the demonstration they are putting on right now, is dedicated to Ian Groom, to his memory and to his family. This is John Zarrella reporting live from Ft. Lauderdale Beach.

NGUYEN: John, air shows are always exciting, but in light of that crash yesterday, did you feel a sense of nervousness among the crowd?

ZARRELLA: No, not really. You know, what we hear, of course, Betty is that you hear about these crashes at air shows and I think we'll probably watch a little bit of this video of the F-18 Hornets and the Blue Angels while we're talking here, they happen, but the experts say, you know, they don't happen as often as they used to. And for the most part, they are very, very safe.

I can tell you that the beach has been absolutely packed with people. If there was any indication that anybody was afraid or that people were staying away because of what happened, certainly no sign of that in the crowd. And much of today's activities were dedicated to the memory of Ian Groom.

And in fact Betty, every one of the pilots, whether they are the stunt pilots that are here, or whether they are the military pilots flying these high performance jets, these are the best in the world flying these planes. And whatever it is that caused Ian Groom's accident yesterday, certainly had to have been a very, very freak accident -- Betty.

NGUYEN: A lot of questions there. Do you have any information as to that investigation and how it's going at this point?

ZARRELLA: At this point, all the results of initial results of the tested by the coroner indicate that it was blunt trauma and drowning, which means that Ian Groom passed away when his plane hit the water.

What happened up in the sky as he was performing some of his practice demonstrations, his rolls, those spin rolls that he does, if something happened to him up there, at this point we don't know. Just that when he hit the water it was blunt trauma and drowning that caused his death.

NGUYEN: OK. John Zarrella live from Fort Lauderdale, Florida, thank you.

Josie Burke joins us from Louisville when we come back with last minute jitters running up to the 130th Kentucky Derby.

And coming up at 4:30 Eastern, 1:30 Pacific, your credit report, is it in good shape? What do you need to do to ensure you have good credit. Email your questions to dollarsigns@CNN.com or you can call 1-800-807-2620. We'll be right back.

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NGUYEN: There are possible weather problems at the Kentucky Derby today. We want to go by phone to CNN's Josie Burke to talk about the race. And the big question is, how is the weather holding out.

JOSIE BURKE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's not holding out well Betty. Because last time we spoke a couple hours ago, the sun had come out, everything had dried out, the storms that had been through in the morning were no longer present, but just a couple of minutes ago, the heavens opened up, torrential downpour, thunder and lightning. So, I'm talking to you on the phone, because it's really not safe to be standing outside.

The whole complexion of the race changes now because we're about an hour and a half, an hour and 40 minutes away from post time. So, there is a good chance that it will change to a sloppy or muddy. And then you have to look at, which horses have an experiences in this 18 horse field, running on an off-track.

I can tell you that Smarty Jones, one of the favorites, he won the Arkansas Derby on a muddy track. So, that's one of the horses that might hold up well in a situation where the track isn't in an ideal situation. Birdstone, who is the long shot at 50-1, Pollard's Vision and Song of the Sword all broke their maidens on muddy track so they have some experience. And also Imperialism, the horse that's trained by the 21-year-old woman, Kristin Mulhall, that horse has had experience on tracks that aren't not exactly in perfect condition -- Betty.

NGUYEN: All right. CNN's Josie Burke at the Kentucky Derby.

Well, how is your credit? What about your credit report? That's the topic of our "Dollar Signs" segment coming up. Send your questions to us at dollarsigns@CNN.com or call 1-800-807-2620. We'll be right back.

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