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CNN Live Saturday
Interview with Norman Solomon; Profile of Brown V. Board Of Education Museum
Aired May 15, 2004 - 12:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BETTY NGUYEN, CNN ANCHOR, CNN SATURDAY: The headlines now. Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat calls on his people to, quote, "terrorize your enemy". The comments came as Palestinians marked the 56th anniversary of the founding of Israel. While Arafat called on Palestinians to remain steadfast in their struggle. He also said he is ready to make peace with Israel.
Authorities in Brazil say there are no survivors in the crash of a domestic airliner, the plane with 33 on board, went down yesterday in dense jungle in the Amazon. There's no word what caused that crash.
And for the first time Africa will play host to the World Cup, soccer's biggest event will be held in South Africa in 2010. The announcement set off celebrations, as you can see, in Johannesburg.
It was a turning point in education and the American way of life took place 50 years ago Monday when the U.S. Supreme Court determined that segregated public schools were unconstitutional. The immediate impact of the decision meant students could no longer be sent to different schools because of race.
Dan Lothian is live in Topeka, Kansas with the legacy of "Brown vs. The Board of Education".
Hi, Dan.
DAN LOTHIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Betty.
We are standing in front of Monroe Elementary School, this was one of four segregated schools back in the time. It is now a museum, which will be open to the public on Monday.
This is a school where Linda Brown, the young girl at center of "Brown vs. Board of Education" attended in this all-black school. It was roughly a mile away from her home, even though there was a white school that was just a few blocks away from her home. Her dad said I'm going to try to enroll her in that school. He was rejected and that is what really triggered the case of "Brown vs. Board of Education".
Mr. Brown, along with other families here in Topeka, joined some four other cases that ultimately went to the Supreme Court. And as you mention did integrate schools, not only here in Kansas but several other states.
As I mentioned, this school is now a museum. On Monday, it will be officially opened and dedicated. President Bush expected to be here for that event as well as other dignitaries.
Betty?
NGUYEN: The museum focuses more on civil rights than it does on "Brown vs. Board of Education". Why is that?
LOTHIAN: That's one of the questions we posed to the folks in the museum. In fact, when we went in there we were looking around for perhaps some pictures, or things from that time, here at Monroe Elementary and some of the other segregated schools here in Topeka. But they really said that this case is much bigger than just one person, much bigger than just one story.
They wanted to focus on the entire process. The chain of events that began prior to 1954 and what took place after 1954. They wanted to give the big picture of a civil rights movement. They do expect though that sometime in the future they will include more about the Brown case at this museum.
NGUYEN: Thank you, Dan Lothian, in Topeka, Kansas today.
NGUYEN: People around the world have expressed outrage at release of photos showing Iraqi prisoner mistreatment. Members of Congress have seen more photos and describe the images as stomach turning and appalling. Should more photos be made public or left under lock and key at the Pentagon? Syndicated columnist Norm Solomon is author of "Target Iraq"; he is in San Francisco today, and in Orlando, Marc Bernier, who hosts a radio talk show.
Thank you both for joining us.
NORMAN SOLOMON, AUTHOR, "TARGET IRAQ": Thank you.
MARC BERNIER, HOST, THE MARC BERNIER SHOW: My pleasure.
NGUYEN: Norm, start with you, Congress took a look at photos. Should the public be able to see them?
SOLOMON: Definitely, I think Donald Rumsfeld put it quite aptly, eight days ago in his congressional testimony, he said, "Words don't do it. Words don't do it". That photographs are required to get what he called a vivid realization of what took place.
Was our tax dollars, was the U.S. military that under their command did those kind of horrible deeds? We as taxpayers and citizens have a right to see that information.
NGUYEN: Mark, what kind of harm it will do if the public gets to see the photos?
RANIER: I think it's over the top. CBS should be ashamed of itself for putting these things out in the first place. Seymour Hirsch was working on his piece out as well. Look, we know what's happened.. How many more images do we have to see?
I respectfully have great feelings about Donald Rumsfeld. I think he's done a great job. I think he's saying what he thinks he has to, because if he's says anything else it's going to look like he's trying to suppress the story.
This is going to enflame further Arab-American relations. It comes at a horrible time. If you read the accounts of what they're saying in Iran, this makes us look like total fools.
SOLOMON: Let's not blame messenger, here. What's over the top is this abuse and torture in the done in the Abu Ghraib prison. We shouldn't remember this lightly. We should remember it with great sorrow and great anger, and also recall what's been accomplished by the release of these photos.
There have been several hundred prisoners --
BERNIER: Yes, well, enough is enough.
SOLOMON: Excuse me. There have been several hundred prisoners released from the prison wrongfully imprisoned in the first place because of the photos. The U.S. military has set out new guidelines to forbid some of these horrible practices, as a result of the release of those photos. We're accomplishing a great deal by learning what the heck went on.
NGUYEN: Gentlemen...
BERNIER: Enough is enough. The president should stop apologizing for this. And quite frankly, nobody's saying that anybody should take this lightly.
NGUYEN: Pardon me, a lot of lawmakers have brought up the point that these photos are going to be leaked out to the public anyway. Why not deal with them head on now, Marc?
BERNIER: I don't want any more of these out. I tell you something, this is not about making light of the situation. Enough is enough. It's ridiculous! When you spend more time worried about somebody who had a bag over his head for 72 hours than you do in media covering the man who lost his head. This is outrageous!
SOLOMON: I think that's such a terrible way to make light of something that -
BERNIER: I'm not making light of it, sir.
SOLOMON: ... cannot be accepted by any citizen in society.
The reality is we have a lot more to learn and a lot more to accomplish because as a result of these photos we're now finding out about torture and abuse by the U.S. military in Afghanistan.
When you say enough is enough, I agree, enough torture, enough abuse, and for that matter, we should be finding out more in vivid detail -- not just euphemistic words -- but graphics and photos and videos about the suffering caused by this continuing war which based on lies. (CROSSTALK)
BERNIER: You know what? I'm so sick and tired of hearing the whining of people about this.
We have an American, Nick Berg, who was put to death in a horrible fashion. His images broadcast and then they stop, but we keep seeing these things. I don't recall any detainees being treated in quite the fashion that Nick Berg was treated.
SOLOMON: Well, Nick Berg -- actually Nick Berg's father blames Donald Rumsfeld and President Bush for the death of his son, so perhaps you have a discourse with him.
BERNIER: This is a hurting father.
SOLOMON: A lot of people of varying political views have a very angry view of what's happening with the continuation of this war, which cannot be supported by logical terms.
NGUYEN: Let's talk about that, because there is this fear that if we release all of these photos or if those photos are released, it's going to cause more anger and it is going lead to more danger for troops in Iraq.
BERNIER: Right. We're already making the situation worse.
(CROSSTALK)
SOLOMON: That could be said --
NGUYEN: What do you say, Marc? It is going to make the situation worse?
BERNIER: This will make the situation worse. You know, in many people in Iran and Iraq are illiterate. They will not read the text that goes with the photos. The are going to see the photos. And this will further inflame them. Make them angry.
Have you read, sir, any of the accounts of what they're writing about this in Iran? They're happy to cash in on the confusion.
SOLOMON: Well - absolutely.
BERNIER: They want to go in, they want to annex part of Iraq.
(CROSSTALK)
BERNIER: Yesterday, look. Listen to me. Yesterday, Fidel Castro held a rally and he tried to capitalize on this bad publicity.
(CROSSTALK)
BERNIER: This makes the United States' mission more difficult.
SOLOMON: Excuse me. If I could interrupt your interruption, the fact is if you define the problem as the flow of information to the public then if you shut down the First Amendment, your problems will be solved. But that's not a solution.
BERNIER: I'm not saying that, sir, I'm not saying that.
SOLOMON: That is the further aggravation of the results of this wrong and incorrect policy.
BERNIER: I'm not saying that. I'm saying if the press --
(CROSSTALK)
SOLOMON: Well, you (UNINTELLIGIBLE) information flow is what the public has a right to.
BERNIER: You know, instead of just talking through me let me tell you this.
They can examine the photos if they want. The press can examine the photos, but I don't think we have to put the images out. We've seen enough. How much more do we have to see?
And let me ask you this, sir, what good comes out of inflaming the Arab nations even more at this point? We know a select group of people did wrong. This does nothing to fix the situation and help the United States forces.
(CROSSTALK)
BERNIER: The media has a responsibility as Americans first.
SOLOMON: If I could answer your question, please?
The way to stop inflaming Arab people is to stop abusing Arab people and stop killing civilians like the hundreds who were killed in Fallujah in the last few weeks.
You're blaming the messenger sir, let's stop the flow of bad news, not by censorship but ending the kind of policies that created the bad news in the first place.
NGUYEN: But Norman, by showing these pictures --
(CROSSTALK)
BERNIER: So, you are blaming the media for these insurgents?
NGUYEN: By showing these pictures, Norman, don't you think it will cause more humiliation for those prisoners?
SOLOMON: Well, you know, all of a sudden the Pentagon and the White House are concerned about the same Geneva Conventions that they have flouted and thumbed their nose at for years. In Guantanamo Bay, in Afghanistan and in Iraq. So, it is rather self-serving of the White House to make this claim at this point. BERNIER: Oh, please! Don't make it sound like the United States is the only one that plays favorites with the Geneva Convention. Somebody, a group of people were killed in Rwanda. The media didn't care about that. They slashed their Achilles' heels, a couple of years ago. Just a month ago we had another circumstance in which people are tortured.
In Iraq they reward them for torturing out people. We don't do that. We bring them to trial.
SOLOMON: Well, exactly, and that information flow is essential to a democracy.
NGUYEN: With that, we're going to have it end this discussion. Norman Solomon and Marc Bernier, we appreciate your time today.
BERNIER: Thank you so much. Thank you.
SOLOMON: Thank you.
Thank you.
NGUYEN: There is much more to come right here on CNN. Do stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
NGUYEN: We do have breakings news of a deadly bridge collapse in Colorado. We understand that it is an overpass of Colorado state road, 4-70 has collapsed to Interstate 70, which is south of Golden. This collapse has killed three people.
It's also causing major traffic troubles in the area. And we are also learning that this bridge had recently been under construction, of course, a lot of questions to be answered and we will continue to follow this story here on CNN.
In other news, from South to North, schools are closing for the year. It's that time when many children get ready for summer camp. There are some important things that parents should keep in mind when trying to choose the right place.
Let's get a few tips on the subject from Cindy Vega in New York; she is the director of the National Camp Association.
Thanks for being here.
CINDY VEGA, DIRECTOR, THE NATIONAL CAMP ASSOCIATION: Hi, it's my pleasure.
NGUYEN: What are the key things parents need to look for when choosing a summer camp for their kids?
VEGA: Well, there's many factors parents should take into consideration when they're trying to choose a camp. And the most important thing that parents should consider is, of course, their child, the child's interests, the activities they most enjoy, all of those things are really key to figure out the type of camp that would be right for that child.
NGUYEN: And there are a lot of camps out there. You have day camps, you have sleepover camps. How do you know when your child is ready for one of those sleepover camps?
VEGA: That's a good question. Children will often let you know when they're ready. Sometimes a child will know other children going to camp and they will express they'd like to go to camp as well.
Many kids see images of camp in the media, through movies and TV, and say, Oh, I've got to go camp. That's a popular way they know they're ready. But usually parents can tell by the maturity level of the child, whether it would be time to have them take a go at this type of experience.
Sometimes even if the kids are little nervous about it, they end up having such a great time that it ends up being one of the best experiences of their lives.
NGUYEN: I remember going to camp as a kid. These days, camps aren't cheap anymore, are they?
VEGA: Well, that's true. Camp is a lot different than it was when you and I were going to camp, but that's also because of the vast variety of new activities and different types of camps that are available.
Camp can be far more than your basic rustic experience. But the good news is that regardless of a family's income, there is usually a camp that will fit the needs of that family for their child. So camps do come in a broad range of costs and there's usually one to fit every budgetary need.
NGUYEN: Give us numbers as opposed to day camps, how much do they cost as opposed to sleepover camps?
VEGA: Well, again, day camp costs can range as well. You know, I would say -- in fact some of them are expensive day camps can equal the cost of sleep-away camp. But from a sleep-away camp standpoint, if you're talking about sending your child for a full summer, I would say that the range is anywhere from about $3,000 to about $10,000.
NGUYEN: Really?
VEGA: But that's a blood broad range, and that's eight weeks of summer, which frankly, most people don't do anymore. When camp first start out it was a luxury item. But now with both parents working, camp is seen as more of a necessity and camps have adjusted. So, now you can send your child to camp for two weeks or four weeks or six weeks.
So, again, it can fit much more neatly into a family's budget. So it's something that's workable for just about most families.
NGUYEN: All right, quickly for the folks interested. You should register early?
VEGA: It's always a good idea to look early and then to register early, if you can. This way you can secure your child a place. And that's the best way to go. But, you know, if you thought of it late, that's OK, too. It's always fine to check to see if there might be available spots at some camps.
NGUYEN: All right, Cindy Vega, we are out of time. You are the director of the National Camp Association. Thanks for all those tips.
VEGA: Not a problem.
NGUYEN: A former hostage throws out a first pitch and an Ohio mother takes home an entire infield of newborns.
What's this? High in the sky over Texas. They're all ahead in the "Week in Pictures".
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
NGUYEN: An update on the breaking news out of Colorado, where there has been a deadly bridge collapse. It was an overpass of Colorado state road 4-70, which has collapsed onto Interstate 70. This is south of Golden, which is about 60 miles outside of Denver, Colorado.
So far we're learning that three people have been killed in the bridge collapse. The eastbound traffic lanes of I-30 have been blocked. And we're also learning that the state patrol has closed, in fact, all lanes of I-70 in both directions.
We, of course, will continue to follow this story. It is happening in Jefferson County, Colorado. Again, three people have been killed in a bridge collapse over I-70, which is about 16 miles outside of Denver, happening in Golden, Colorado.
Staying on top of the story, we'll bring you the latest as it becomes available here on CNN.
In other news, another busy week and many memorable images you may have missed. So, with that in mind, here's the "Week In Photos".
NGUYEN (voice over): Violent demonstrations and attacks in the Sauder City (ph) region of Baghdad, supporters of Cleric Muqtadr al Sadr (ph) are fighting coalition forces for control of the area and for southern Iraq.
Caught in the crossfire, civilians just trying to live their lives.
In the war against terrorism U.S. troops on patrol in Afghanistan. Afghan soldiers are being trained to handle security in their country and taught to use heavy weapons to fight remnants of Taliban and Al Qaeda fighters.
In this country, storms slice a path of destruction through several states. Lightening and heavy rains struck a grain elevator in Iowa. In Texas, a severe storm ripped a train right off the tracks. But no serious injuries were reported.
Also in Texas, former hostage Thomas Hamill, his arm still in a cast, was given the honor of throwing out the first pitch at a Houston Astros game. Hamill escaped his captures in Iraq and has been reunited with his family in Mississippi.
Happy homecomings, too, for soldiers returning from the war in Iraq. Some fathers got that chance to hold their infants for the first time.
And a homecoming times six, for an Ohio family, the sextuplets were finally all strong enough to go home. The three boys and three girls were born in February, 11 weeks premature.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
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Aired May 15, 2004 - 12:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BETTY NGUYEN, CNN ANCHOR, CNN SATURDAY: The headlines now. Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat calls on his people to, quote, "terrorize your enemy". The comments came as Palestinians marked the 56th anniversary of the founding of Israel. While Arafat called on Palestinians to remain steadfast in their struggle. He also said he is ready to make peace with Israel.
Authorities in Brazil say there are no survivors in the crash of a domestic airliner, the plane with 33 on board, went down yesterday in dense jungle in the Amazon. There's no word what caused that crash.
And for the first time Africa will play host to the World Cup, soccer's biggest event will be held in South Africa in 2010. The announcement set off celebrations, as you can see, in Johannesburg.
It was a turning point in education and the American way of life took place 50 years ago Monday when the U.S. Supreme Court determined that segregated public schools were unconstitutional. The immediate impact of the decision meant students could no longer be sent to different schools because of race.
Dan Lothian is live in Topeka, Kansas with the legacy of "Brown vs. The Board of Education".
Hi, Dan.
DAN LOTHIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Betty.
We are standing in front of Monroe Elementary School, this was one of four segregated schools back in the time. It is now a museum, which will be open to the public on Monday.
This is a school where Linda Brown, the young girl at center of "Brown vs. Board of Education" attended in this all-black school. It was roughly a mile away from her home, even though there was a white school that was just a few blocks away from her home. Her dad said I'm going to try to enroll her in that school. He was rejected and that is what really triggered the case of "Brown vs. Board of Education".
Mr. Brown, along with other families here in Topeka, joined some four other cases that ultimately went to the Supreme Court. And as you mention did integrate schools, not only here in Kansas but several other states.
As I mentioned, this school is now a museum. On Monday, it will be officially opened and dedicated. President Bush expected to be here for that event as well as other dignitaries.
Betty?
NGUYEN: The museum focuses more on civil rights than it does on "Brown vs. Board of Education". Why is that?
LOTHIAN: That's one of the questions we posed to the folks in the museum. In fact, when we went in there we were looking around for perhaps some pictures, or things from that time, here at Monroe Elementary and some of the other segregated schools here in Topeka. But they really said that this case is much bigger than just one person, much bigger than just one story.
They wanted to focus on the entire process. The chain of events that began prior to 1954 and what took place after 1954. They wanted to give the big picture of a civil rights movement. They do expect though that sometime in the future they will include more about the Brown case at this museum.
NGUYEN: Thank you, Dan Lothian, in Topeka, Kansas today.
NGUYEN: People around the world have expressed outrage at release of photos showing Iraqi prisoner mistreatment. Members of Congress have seen more photos and describe the images as stomach turning and appalling. Should more photos be made public or left under lock and key at the Pentagon? Syndicated columnist Norm Solomon is author of "Target Iraq"; he is in San Francisco today, and in Orlando, Marc Bernier, who hosts a radio talk show.
Thank you both for joining us.
NORMAN SOLOMON, AUTHOR, "TARGET IRAQ": Thank you.
MARC BERNIER, HOST, THE MARC BERNIER SHOW: My pleasure.
NGUYEN: Norm, start with you, Congress took a look at photos. Should the public be able to see them?
SOLOMON: Definitely, I think Donald Rumsfeld put it quite aptly, eight days ago in his congressional testimony, he said, "Words don't do it. Words don't do it". That photographs are required to get what he called a vivid realization of what took place.
Was our tax dollars, was the U.S. military that under their command did those kind of horrible deeds? We as taxpayers and citizens have a right to see that information.
NGUYEN: Mark, what kind of harm it will do if the public gets to see the photos?
RANIER: I think it's over the top. CBS should be ashamed of itself for putting these things out in the first place. Seymour Hirsch was working on his piece out as well. Look, we know what's happened.. How many more images do we have to see?
I respectfully have great feelings about Donald Rumsfeld. I think he's done a great job. I think he's saying what he thinks he has to, because if he's says anything else it's going to look like he's trying to suppress the story.
This is going to enflame further Arab-American relations. It comes at a horrible time. If you read the accounts of what they're saying in Iran, this makes us look like total fools.
SOLOMON: Let's not blame messenger, here. What's over the top is this abuse and torture in the done in the Abu Ghraib prison. We shouldn't remember this lightly. We should remember it with great sorrow and great anger, and also recall what's been accomplished by the release of these photos.
There have been several hundred prisoners --
BERNIER: Yes, well, enough is enough.
SOLOMON: Excuse me. There have been several hundred prisoners released from the prison wrongfully imprisoned in the first place because of the photos. The U.S. military has set out new guidelines to forbid some of these horrible practices, as a result of the release of those photos. We're accomplishing a great deal by learning what the heck went on.
NGUYEN: Gentlemen...
BERNIER: Enough is enough. The president should stop apologizing for this. And quite frankly, nobody's saying that anybody should take this lightly.
NGUYEN: Pardon me, a lot of lawmakers have brought up the point that these photos are going to be leaked out to the public anyway. Why not deal with them head on now, Marc?
BERNIER: I don't want any more of these out. I tell you something, this is not about making light of the situation. Enough is enough. It's ridiculous! When you spend more time worried about somebody who had a bag over his head for 72 hours than you do in media covering the man who lost his head. This is outrageous!
SOLOMON: I think that's such a terrible way to make light of something that -
BERNIER: I'm not making light of it, sir.
SOLOMON: ... cannot be accepted by any citizen in society.
The reality is we have a lot more to learn and a lot more to accomplish because as a result of these photos we're now finding out about torture and abuse by the U.S. military in Afghanistan.
When you say enough is enough, I agree, enough torture, enough abuse, and for that matter, we should be finding out more in vivid detail -- not just euphemistic words -- but graphics and photos and videos about the suffering caused by this continuing war which based on lies. (CROSSTALK)
BERNIER: You know what? I'm so sick and tired of hearing the whining of people about this.
We have an American, Nick Berg, who was put to death in a horrible fashion. His images broadcast and then they stop, but we keep seeing these things. I don't recall any detainees being treated in quite the fashion that Nick Berg was treated.
SOLOMON: Well, Nick Berg -- actually Nick Berg's father blames Donald Rumsfeld and President Bush for the death of his son, so perhaps you have a discourse with him.
BERNIER: This is a hurting father.
SOLOMON: A lot of people of varying political views have a very angry view of what's happening with the continuation of this war, which cannot be supported by logical terms.
NGUYEN: Let's talk about that, because there is this fear that if we release all of these photos or if those photos are released, it's going to cause more anger and it is going lead to more danger for troops in Iraq.
BERNIER: Right. We're already making the situation worse.
(CROSSTALK)
SOLOMON: That could be said --
NGUYEN: What do you say, Marc? It is going to make the situation worse?
BERNIER: This will make the situation worse. You know, in many people in Iran and Iraq are illiterate. They will not read the text that goes with the photos. The are going to see the photos. And this will further inflame them. Make them angry.
Have you read, sir, any of the accounts of what they're writing about this in Iran? They're happy to cash in on the confusion.
SOLOMON: Well - absolutely.
BERNIER: They want to go in, they want to annex part of Iraq.
(CROSSTALK)
BERNIER: Yesterday, look. Listen to me. Yesterday, Fidel Castro held a rally and he tried to capitalize on this bad publicity.
(CROSSTALK)
BERNIER: This makes the United States' mission more difficult.
SOLOMON: Excuse me. If I could interrupt your interruption, the fact is if you define the problem as the flow of information to the public then if you shut down the First Amendment, your problems will be solved. But that's not a solution.
BERNIER: I'm not saying that, sir, I'm not saying that.
SOLOMON: That is the further aggravation of the results of this wrong and incorrect policy.
BERNIER: I'm not saying that. I'm saying if the press --
(CROSSTALK)
SOLOMON: Well, you (UNINTELLIGIBLE) information flow is what the public has a right to.
BERNIER: You know, instead of just talking through me let me tell you this.
They can examine the photos if they want. The press can examine the photos, but I don't think we have to put the images out. We've seen enough. How much more do we have to see?
And let me ask you this, sir, what good comes out of inflaming the Arab nations even more at this point? We know a select group of people did wrong. This does nothing to fix the situation and help the United States forces.
(CROSSTALK)
BERNIER: The media has a responsibility as Americans first.
SOLOMON: If I could answer your question, please?
The way to stop inflaming Arab people is to stop abusing Arab people and stop killing civilians like the hundreds who were killed in Fallujah in the last few weeks.
You're blaming the messenger sir, let's stop the flow of bad news, not by censorship but ending the kind of policies that created the bad news in the first place.
NGUYEN: But Norman, by showing these pictures --
(CROSSTALK)
BERNIER: So, you are blaming the media for these insurgents?
NGUYEN: By showing these pictures, Norman, don't you think it will cause more humiliation for those prisoners?
SOLOMON: Well, you know, all of a sudden the Pentagon and the White House are concerned about the same Geneva Conventions that they have flouted and thumbed their nose at for years. In Guantanamo Bay, in Afghanistan and in Iraq. So, it is rather self-serving of the White House to make this claim at this point. BERNIER: Oh, please! Don't make it sound like the United States is the only one that plays favorites with the Geneva Convention. Somebody, a group of people were killed in Rwanda. The media didn't care about that. They slashed their Achilles' heels, a couple of years ago. Just a month ago we had another circumstance in which people are tortured.
In Iraq they reward them for torturing out people. We don't do that. We bring them to trial.
SOLOMON: Well, exactly, and that information flow is essential to a democracy.
NGUYEN: With that, we're going to have it end this discussion. Norman Solomon and Marc Bernier, we appreciate your time today.
BERNIER: Thank you so much. Thank you.
SOLOMON: Thank you.
Thank you.
NGUYEN: There is much more to come right here on CNN. Do stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
NGUYEN: We do have breakings news of a deadly bridge collapse in Colorado. We understand that it is an overpass of Colorado state road, 4-70 has collapsed to Interstate 70, which is south of Golden. This collapse has killed three people.
It's also causing major traffic troubles in the area. And we are also learning that this bridge had recently been under construction, of course, a lot of questions to be answered and we will continue to follow this story here on CNN.
In other news, from South to North, schools are closing for the year. It's that time when many children get ready for summer camp. There are some important things that parents should keep in mind when trying to choose the right place.
Let's get a few tips on the subject from Cindy Vega in New York; she is the director of the National Camp Association.
Thanks for being here.
CINDY VEGA, DIRECTOR, THE NATIONAL CAMP ASSOCIATION: Hi, it's my pleasure.
NGUYEN: What are the key things parents need to look for when choosing a summer camp for their kids?
VEGA: Well, there's many factors parents should take into consideration when they're trying to choose a camp. And the most important thing that parents should consider is, of course, their child, the child's interests, the activities they most enjoy, all of those things are really key to figure out the type of camp that would be right for that child.
NGUYEN: And there are a lot of camps out there. You have day camps, you have sleepover camps. How do you know when your child is ready for one of those sleepover camps?
VEGA: That's a good question. Children will often let you know when they're ready. Sometimes a child will know other children going to camp and they will express they'd like to go to camp as well.
Many kids see images of camp in the media, through movies and TV, and say, Oh, I've got to go camp. That's a popular way they know they're ready. But usually parents can tell by the maturity level of the child, whether it would be time to have them take a go at this type of experience.
Sometimes even if the kids are little nervous about it, they end up having such a great time that it ends up being one of the best experiences of their lives.
NGUYEN: I remember going to camp as a kid. These days, camps aren't cheap anymore, are they?
VEGA: Well, that's true. Camp is a lot different than it was when you and I were going to camp, but that's also because of the vast variety of new activities and different types of camps that are available.
Camp can be far more than your basic rustic experience. But the good news is that regardless of a family's income, there is usually a camp that will fit the needs of that family for their child. So camps do come in a broad range of costs and there's usually one to fit every budgetary need.
NGUYEN: Give us numbers as opposed to day camps, how much do they cost as opposed to sleepover camps?
VEGA: Well, again, day camp costs can range as well. You know, I would say -- in fact some of them are expensive day camps can equal the cost of sleep-away camp. But from a sleep-away camp standpoint, if you're talking about sending your child for a full summer, I would say that the range is anywhere from about $3,000 to about $10,000.
NGUYEN: Really?
VEGA: But that's a blood broad range, and that's eight weeks of summer, which frankly, most people don't do anymore. When camp first start out it was a luxury item. But now with both parents working, camp is seen as more of a necessity and camps have adjusted. So, now you can send your child to camp for two weeks or four weeks or six weeks.
So, again, it can fit much more neatly into a family's budget. So it's something that's workable for just about most families.
NGUYEN: All right, quickly for the folks interested. You should register early?
VEGA: It's always a good idea to look early and then to register early, if you can. This way you can secure your child a place. And that's the best way to go. But, you know, if you thought of it late, that's OK, too. It's always fine to check to see if there might be available spots at some camps.
NGUYEN: All right, Cindy Vega, we are out of time. You are the director of the National Camp Association. Thanks for all those tips.
VEGA: Not a problem.
NGUYEN: A former hostage throws out a first pitch and an Ohio mother takes home an entire infield of newborns.
What's this? High in the sky over Texas. They're all ahead in the "Week in Pictures".
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NGUYEN: An update on the breaking news out of Colorado, where there has been a deadly bridge collapse. It was an overpass of Colorado state road 4-70, which has collapsed onto Interstate 70. This is south of Golden, which is about 60 miles outside of Denver, Colorado.
So far we're learning that three people have been killed in the bridge collapse. The eastbound traffic lanes of I-30 have been blocked. And we're also learning that the state patrol has closed, in fact, all lanes of I-70 in both directions.
We, of course, will continue to follow this story. It is happening in Jefferson County, Colorado. Again, three people have been killed in a bridge collapse over I-70, which is about 16 miles outside of Denver, happening in Golden, Colorado.
Staying on top of the story, we'll bring you the latest as it becomes available here on CNN.
In other news, another busy week and many memorable images you may have missed. So, with that in mind, here's the "Week In Photos".
NGUYEN (voice over): Violent demonstrations and attacks in the Sauder City (ph) region of Baghdad, supporters of Cleric Muqtadr al Sadr (ph) are fighting coalition forces for control of the area and for southern Iraq.
Caught in the crossfire, civilians just trying to live their lives.
In the war against terrorism U.S. troops on patrol in Afghanistan. Afghan soldiers are being trained to handle security in their country and taught to use heavy weapons to fight remnants of Taliban and Al Qaeda fighters.
In this country, storms slice a path of destruction through several states. Lightening and heavy rains struck a grain elevator in Iowa. In Texas, a severe storm ripped a train right off the tracks. But no serious injuries were reported.
Also in Texas, former hostage Thomas Hamill, his arm still in a cast, was given the honor of throwing out the first pitch at a Houston Astros game. Hamill escaped his captures in Iraq and has been reunited with his family in Mississippi.
Happy homecomings, too, for soldiers returning from the war in Iraq. Some fathers got that chance to hold their infants for the first time.
And a homecoming times six, for an Ohio family, the sextuplets were finally all strong enough to go home. The three boys and three girls were born in February, 11 weeks premature.
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