Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Live Saturday

Cassini Sends Back Pictures Of Titan; Al Sharpton To Get Reality TV Series; Dick Cheney Challenges Kerry On His Job Creation Plan

Aired July 03, 2004 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


CAROL LIN, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Carol Lin. "CNN LIVE SATURDAY" is just ahead, but first these headlines. Saddam Hussein's admirers are going public. About 150 demonstrators marched in Ba'qubah today in support of the imprisoned former Iraqi dictator. The rally came on the day a bomb killed six Iraqi National Guard members south of Baghdad. And a U.S. Marine died from wounds he received a day earlier.
The race for the White House is focusing on swing states in rural America. John Kerry tells Wisconsin dairy farmers he'd make the government more efficient and that he'd wage a more effective war on terror.

In suburban Cleveland Dick Cheney challenges Kerry to explain how he would create jobs.

The Massachusetts lottery is waiting for one winner of last night's $290 mega million jackpot to come forward. A store in Lowell sold the winning ticket. It's the second largest winning ticket in U.S. lottery history.

I'm Carol Lin and welcome to CNN LIVE SATURDAY. In this hour, the unseen wounds of war. For the first time, military men and women are being examined right on the battlefield for post-traumatic stress.

Also, NASA just released never before seen images of the Saturn moon, Titan. Bill Nye, the science guy, makes this whole story come alive.

But first, we begin with Iraq and a brand new government investigation. What happened to the $18 billion for rebuilding the country? CNN's Jeanne Meserve reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JEANNE MESERVE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Electricity, critical to rebuilding Iraq's economy, improving the quality of daily life, and winning the population's support. But according to a new report from the General Accounting Office, 13 of Iraq's 18 provinces have fewer hours of electrical service now than when Saddam Hussein was in power.

DAVID WALKER, GAO COMPTROLLER GENERAL: We're rebuilding infrastructure that has been deteriorated over a number of years and has been a casualty of war, of looting and of the insurgency. MESERVE: The GAO says inadequate security is undercutting efforts to rebuild infrastructure, but that Iraq's security forces are poorly trained and equipped, understaffed and unready to fight. One analyst blames what she calls the incompetent bureaucracy of the Coalition Provisional Authority, but also says the Iraqi people had unrealistic expectations.

DANIELLE PLETKA, AMERICAN ENTERPRISE INSTITUTE: I understand why they're there. If you live for 30 years under a horrible dictator, when he's gone you expect everything to come up roses and in many ways we advertised that things would come up roses.

MESERVE: But new numbers from the White House show that of the $18.4 billion appropriated by Congress last fall to rebuild Iraq, only $366 million or about two percent have been spent. The Office of Management and Budget argues that more than half the money is now in the pipeline. And the administration points to progress: 2,500 schools rehabilitated, 85 percent of children immunized, 50 percent more telephone users than before the war and no Saddam Hussein.

J. ADAM ERELI, STATE DEPT. DEPUTY SPOKESMAN: I find it difficult to argue persuasively that an Iraq free of Saddam Hussein is worse off than an Iraq with Saddam Hussein.

MESERVE: Though angering frustration with the slow pace of building has been evident on the streets there is hope that the new Iraqi government can do better.

FEISAL AL-ISTRABADI, ADVISER, IRAQ GOVERNING COUNCIL: Hopefully, the new government will be able to fulfill the major aims and hopes of the people of Iraq and not disappoint them.

MESERVE (on camera): But it remains to be seen, of course, if the new Iraqi government can do a better job meeting those hopes than the U.S. and its allies.

Jeanne Meserve, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LIN: If anyone thought the violence would peter out after Iraqis took control of their country, they were wrong. A bomb killed six Iraqi National Guard members today. It happened at an oil storage facility south of Baghdad. And west of the capital, a Marine died in the volatile Al Anbar Province where he had been wounded a day before. Back in Baghdad, the coalition is bragging about a raid where they found a weapons factory. U.S. troops found four potential car bombs and 50 pounds of plastic explosives. They are questioning some suspects.

And Saddam Hussein's fans -- yes, he has them -- marched, chanting his name and said his trial was illegitimate. One of his biggest supporters happens to be the daughter of Moammar Gadhafi. Aicha Moammar Gadhafi is joining Hussein's legal dream team and court watchers say it could be the trial of the century. Paul Williams is a former State Department lawyer and is currently an expert in international law and tribunals. He teaches law at American University in Washington.

Paul, what do you make of that, Moammar Gadhafi's daughter being on Saddam Hussein's legal team?

PAUL WILLIAMS, FORMER STATE DEPARTMENT LAWYER: Well, I think Saddam has clearly figured out that this is going to be a political theater and he is going to use this trial as best he can to gather the attention of the entire Arab world and to undermine instability or to create instability in Iraq. Getting Moammar Gadhafi's daughter on the list of lawyers gives him that much more publicity.

LIN: All right, Paul, we've got some terrific viewer questions I want to through at you to get some answers for them. First and foremost, one of our viewers asked, "Who is this judge, this young man who sat across from Saddam Hussein the other day?"

WILLIAMS: Well, this young judge is a newly minted criminal law judge in Iraq. And I suspect the reason why the Iraqis chose him is to demonstrate that Saddam is going to be tried by everyday Iraqis. Sure, he's a judge, but in a sense he represents the man on the street.

LIN: "What is the U.S. role and whose laws apply," another viewer asked that.

WILLIAMS: Well, this is very interesting. The U.S. role is significant. When we saw the film on Thursday, we saw only Iraqis. But I would imagine that the Americans are providing anywhere between 70 and 80 percent of the technical expertise. You won't see them. They'll be behind the scenes. And one way they will keep them behind the scenes is to use Iraqi law. Saddam is being charged with laws that he enacted.

LIN: That's interesting. And does that work against him or in his favor, in a sense?

WILLIAMS: Well, there are two things that work against him. He -- and importantly, against him legally. First, he continues to insist that he was president and commander-in-chief, which essentially is an admission that he controlled the forces, which committed genocide or invading the neighboring states and that'll clearly work against him. And the second is he wants to argue this trial is illegitimate. And the Iraqis have been very clever to use his laws against him and it's going to be much more difficult for him to undermine the legitimacy of that type of tribunal

LIN: All right. Another question a viewer asks, "Saddam says he is the Iraqi president. Was he ever officially removed from that position?" I mean we make a lot of assumptions, obviously, because the Americans occupy the country and he went on the run.

WILLIAMS: Yes, well, technically he was removed from that position and has been replaced by the interim government, but in his mind and in the mind of some Iraqis, he's still the president and he's going to run that not as a legal argument, but he's going to run that as a political argument in order to promote instability. LIN: Paul, do you see any way around the death penalty in this case?

WILLIAMS: No, I think that the CPA, Paul Bremer, lifted the death penalty under pressure from American allies. Quite frankly, the Iraqis are used to the death penalty. They expect the death penalty. It's part of their legal tradition and I think Saddam knows this. And so, he's going to be playing -- you know, he's pulling out all the stops in his defense because he knows what's going to happen at the end.

LIN: So how do you think this trial is going to play out? And is the death penalty a foregone conclusion in this case?

WILLIAMS: Well, I think Saddam has assumed it's a foregone conclusion. And one of the problems is the Iraqis and the internationals who are helping him will take a very legalistic approach. Saddam, he's going to hire some lawyers, pepper the tribunal with motions and he's going to run his political case.

And I fear the Iraqis haven't figured out -- figured this out. And this trial over the course of a year, year and a half could substantially destabilize Iraq if it's not played properly by the Iraqis.

LIN: All right. Well, I know there was an opportunity in the court for Saddam Hussein to make those statements as he saw it. It appeared that the Iraqis didn't have control of the proceedings. But they might think twice if they'll give him that opportunity again.

WILLIAMS: They're going to have to.

LIN: They will. Paul Williams, thank you very much.

WILLIAMS: Thank you.

LIN: Forty years ago this week, Democratic President Lyndon Johnson signed a ground breaking bill that guaranteed new protections for America's minorities. Since that day, Republicans have struggled to make inroads with minority voters. But the Bush campaign is working hard to change that. CNN's Elaine Quijano explains.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ladies and gentlemen, the president of the United States of America, the greatest country in the world.

ELAINE QUIJANO, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): At Philadelphia's Greater Exodus Baptist Church last week an enthusiastic reception for President Bush on a visit to talk about HIV/AIDS initiatives. The trip was also a chance to reach out to African- American voters in a battleground state, Pennsylvania, reaffirming his support for faith-based groups.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: This is a church that trains people coming off welfare rolls to find work. Isn't that a wonderful...

(APPLAUSE)

QUIJANO: The race against Democratic rival, John Kerry, is shaping up to be tight. Minority votes could prove key and at a time when the president's overall approval numbers are dropping, his campaign hopes to boost his standing among minority groups. One way he's connecting, through religion, says the Reverend Herb Lusk, the pastor at Greater Exodus.

REV. HERB LUSK, GREATER EXOSUD BAPTISTS CHURCH: He's the kind of guy that I can support as a minister of the gospel, simple as that. I mean, I can support someone who will be pro family and will be pro life.

QUIJANO: The campaign also wants to broaden its reach to Hispanic voters, sending its bilingual message and mobilizing thousands of volunteers.

SHARON CASTRILO, BUSH-CHENEY '04: It's safe to say that we've started way earlier, that we're devoting more resources and that we're using the Internet in very unique and unprecedented ways. And so we're trying new things. We're being very aggressive.

QUIJANO: Campaign officials also point to Mr. Bush's racially diverse cabinet as evidence of his support for minorities. But critics say the high visibility hasn't been translated to policy.

CORNELL BELCHER, DEMOCRATIC POLLSTER: Many of the key issues before the African-American community are under assault from Bush. I mean take a look at the college funding, Pell grants, cuts in college funding with Pell grants, attacks on affirmative action. So no, visibility has not equated black power.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

QUIJANO (on camera): Now, in 2000, President Bush garnered just eight percent of the African-American vote. This time around, of course, the president looking to boost that number. Also, the president is looking to make inroads among Hispanics as well where in 2000 he garnered about 35 percent of that vote -- Carol.

LIN: All right. Thanks very much, Elaine.

Well, be it his ties to Halliburton or his foul language on Capitol Hill, Vice President Cheney has been such a lightning rod for criticism lately, you might think the campaign would try sending him back to an undisclosed location. But he's taking a higher profile than ever right now hop scotching across swing states to sell the president's message. CNN's Ed Henry has more.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ED HENRY, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): As Senator John Kerry moves closer to selecting his running mate, Vice President Cheney's role in the presidential campaign is growing. The Bush campaign sees the vice president as a major asset, which is why he's serving as surrogate in chief on a bus tour rolling through three battleground states. First stop, the critical state of Ohio, where Mr. Cheney was greeted by a rousing Republican crowd in a suburb of Cleveland.

DICK CHENEY, VICE PRESIDENT OF UNITED STATES: We were proud to carry Ohio in 2000 and we're counting on you again in 2004.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You got it.

CHENEY: All right.

HENRY: No Republican has won a White House race without carrying Ohio, but recent polls have the president trailing Senator Kerry here. Local Republicans like Senator George Voinovich say the economy and Iraq are the two top issues in Ohio. The state has been especially hard hit by the loss of manufacturing jobs. So Mr. Cheney asserted that the Bush administration's three tax cuts are helping to turn the tide.

The vice president ridiculed Senator Kerry, charging that he's voted to raise taxes an average of every three weeks over the last 20 years.

CHENEY: At lease the folks back in Massachusetts knew he was on the job.

HENRY (on camera): Democrats reject that charge and say Mr. Cheney is so unpopular that his larger role in the campaign trail will backfire with swing voters.

(voice-over): The Bush campaign is also stressing the vice president's credentials. Senator Voinovich noted that Mr. Cheney served as White House chief of staff, a member of Congress and defense secretary.

SEN. GEORGE VOINOVICH (R), OHIO: Regardless folks of who the Democrats put up as their vice presidential candidate, they'll never be able to hold a candle to Dick Cheney.

HENRY: The campaign also wants to humanize the vice president who brought his wife. They joked about their courtship and introduced a granddaughter and then Mr. Cheney broke some news.

CHENEY: Yesterday, our first grandson was born.

HENRY: Ed Henry, CNN, with the vice president in Parma, Ohio.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LIN: One footnote about a little in your face jab from today's rally organizers in Ohio, at one point the speakers began blaring John Mellencamp's "R-O-C-K in The USA" and a song by Bruce Springsteen. Both musicians have been extremely critical of President Bush. In fact, Mellencamp recently wrote an open letter to Americans calling and saying it's time to take back our country. Whoops. Senator John Kerry is hoping other Americans are just as fired up as John Mellencamp. Today, the presidential hopeful spent time in rural Wisconsin stumping before dairy farmers inside a large shed used to store tractors. Kerry lashed out at the man he's trying to unseat, saying President Bush has done a poor job fighting the war on terror. Kerry also touched on domestic themes saying the White House has spent plenty but produced little.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOHN KERRY (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The richest country on the face of the planet, most technology in the world, spends more on health care than any other nation in the world and yet, we rank 13th. We're way behind on infant mortality, on nutrition, on certain other things. That's not acceptable. And you don't even hear this president talk about it. Now, that's unusual. Usually, they got a fake plan or they got something they offer. But they don't even have a fake plan here. They're just ignoring 44 million Americans who don't have any health care.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LIN: Fighting words. John Kerry is making another campaign stop today in Dubuque, Iowa, where he plans to watch holiday fireworks.

Well, a teenage phenomenon from Russia takes on U.S. tennis star, Serena Williams. Still to come, the upset at the Wimbledon finals and is Russia the new powerhouse in the game of tennis?

Plus, they're the new freshmen on campus. These are not your typical combat cadets.

And later, understanding the rings of Saturn, a look at the snapshots and how they benefit the science world.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LIN: So what does it take to make a leader in the war on terror? Someone who stands in the line of fire able to command and control the battlefield. Four years at West Point can teach the right stuff, but the war in Iraq is shaking things up. Our Alina Cho reports on a group of freshman cadets fresh from the front lines.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Last name, closely follow all instructions, move out, candidates.

ALINA CHO, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It is 6:30 in the morning and these new West Point cadets are getting a quick lesson in military life.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Three, two, one. Move it out here, cadet. Hurry up. Hurry up.

CHO: A lesson in restraint... UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You guys, over the next six weeks, you will have four responses that you will use for everything. They are yes, sir or ma'am, no, sir or ma'am, no excuse, sir or ma'am, and sir or ma'am, I do not understand.

CHO: ...and a lesson reminiscent of grade school.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Does anyone need to use the bathroom?

CHO: These first year cadets are different. They are war veterans who have served in Iraq.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We still have volumes to learn about leadership.

CHO: So they signed up for four years of West Point followed by five years of active duty at a time when support for the war is slipping.

(on camera): What was it about what you did overseas that made you want to come back here and sign up for another nine years?

ROBERT DAVIS, JR., WEST POINT CADET: I would say one of the biggest things is the bond that you make with fellow soldiers.

CHO (voice-over): Brian Carlson was in Iraq when he was accepted, almost didn't come, until he talked to fellow soldiers.

BRIAN CARLSON, WEST POINT CADET: Every one of them was like, why are you even talking to us? You need to get out of here as quickly as possible. You need to go and become an officer.

CHO (on camera): This year, there are 24 West Point cadets who have served in Iraq or Afghanistan, compared to last year when only eight had combat experience. The main reason for the increase, this is the longest period of time the U.S. has been involved in a conflict since Vietnam.

JOHN PESZIERKO, WEST POINT CADET: You sort of feel like you can come to school, get out there and learn on those lessons and put them to use, be a good leader.

CHO (voice-over): To their fellow first year cadets...

(ON CAMERA): ...what's your advice to them?

CARLSON: To tell them that it's going to be OK. It's not the end of the world.

CHO: Tell me what it is about military life that is so special?

CARLSON: I believe in the freedoms that we as Americans have and I'm willing to die for everyone else's freedom just as people in the past have been willing to die for mine.

CHO (voice-over): These future military leaders... UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do solemnly swear...

CROWD: Do solemnly swear...

CHO: ...are taking the oath.

Alina Cho, CNN, West Point, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LIN: Time now for some news around the world.

In Afghanistan, the U.S. military is investigating more claims of prisoner abuse. At least four people died in U.S. custody. The military recently opened at least two new investigations after former prisoners complained.

In Nairobi, Kenya, violent clashes. Police fought with hundreds of demonstrators using tear gas, batons and a water cannon. Police or people took to the streets defying a ban on public support for constitutional reform. Kenya's Red Cross says about 20 people were injured.

And in Belgium, an opening race in the Tour de France goes pretty well for Lance Armstrong. He comes in second. The tough Texan is aiming for a sixth straight win at the Tour de France, never been done before.

Tennis has a new superstar. This year's Wimbledon women's champion is a 6-foot tall teenager born in Siberia. Maria Sharapova beat Serena Williams in straight sets today at the all-England tennis club at 6-1, 6-4. It was the most lopsided women's final in 12 years.

Richard Pagliaro is the web editor for "Tennis Week" magazine.

Richard, did you -- you watched the match. I want to share a clip with you of what happened right after the match and get your impressions.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Who has watched enough to know this tradition?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A 17-year-old, the only ladies winner when she won in 1997.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And I think she's kind of busy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LIN: The poor girl trying to call her mother down in Florida. An emotional ending to today's match, Richard. It really says a lot about this young woman's priorities and how much her parents sacrifice bringing her to this country when she was just 7 years old. RICHARD PAGLIARO, WEB EDITOR, "TENNIS WEEK" MAGAZINE: They certainly did, Carol. They pretty much sacrificed everything for their daughter. She believed it was her destiny to become a tennis champion and she did it today. It was just a really focused, fearless, ferocious effort from Maria Sharapova. And she basically stood on the baseline and took it right to Serena Williams and took the title away from her. You rarely see Serena Williams reduced to retrieving and playing defense so much in a major match. And Sharapova, to me, it was the equivalent of seeing a really hungry boxer just stand toe-to-toe with a heavyweight champion and just basically knock her out. I mean she was swinging hard and swinging effectively with every shot. I mean it was astonishing.

LIN: What happened? I mean, did even she -- in her own mind, when she entered Wimbledon, did she have it in her mind that she actually could get this thing, win?

PAGLIARO: She swept singles and doubles titles at Birmingham. It was a grass court tune-up tournament. And she said after winning that, she said, "I believe I can win Wimbledon." Why not? I mean she's a really confident girl. I think in her heart, yes, she absolutely believed she could win. But you know Serena Williams had only lost one major final in her life. And it was just really stunning to me how effective Sharapova was, especially because Serena Williams, in my view, has the best serve in the history of women's tennis. Sharapova broke her serve four times and only dropped her own serve once. So she was really effective and she just challenged her from the first ball. Everything about Sharapova's performance, her body language, her strokes, her shrieking, I mean it just screamed aggression, you know. She was there to take the title.

LIN: Yes, she wanted it.

PAGLIARO: And she did it.

LIN: She wanted it. This is a girl also that's had to fight off a lot of -- frankly, what affects a lot of young attractive women in sports, the temptations of endorsements and the attention for her looks and not for her sport. I understand that she actually refuses to talk to reporters about anything other than her game specifically.

PAGLIARO: Yes, I think she's a smart girl and she's smart enough to realize that tennis is what got her to this point. So she does have a modeling contract with IMG. She does things on the side like that. But you know she's a tennis player and that's what she wants to be.

LIN: So what's going to happen to Serena? What do you expect from her now?

PAGLIARO: I think, you know, what you're going to hear is people question the future of Serena and is she ever going to dominate again. In my opinion, Serena Williams is still the best player in tennis despite the fact that she lost today and she's ranked tenth in the world. You know the best player doesn't always win. We see that in other sports, whether it's boxing, whether it's Tiger Woods, whether it's, you know, the Yankees losing to the Mets, the Lakers. I think Serena Williams is going to be back and she's going to be back with a vengeance. I would expect Serena Williams to win the U.S. Open if she stays healthy and if she's committed to tennis.

She has a lot of other things going on in her career and her life. I mean, she missed eight months of tennis after knee surgery last year. She had the tragic murder of her sister. She's had a lot of stuff to deal with in the past year. And I think, you know, tennis has become a job for her and she knows she's got to work harder at it to sustain the immense level of success she's had.

LIN: Well, not only does she have the taste of blood today, but she was incredibly gracious at the ceremony with Maria...

PAGLIARO: Very much so, yes.

LIN: Thank you very much, Richard.

PAGLIARO: Thank you, Carol. Thanks very much.

LIN: Still to come on CNN LIVE SATURDAY, 14,000 pounds of explosives on the national mall and it's all for a good cause. Up next, I'll introduce you to the men behind the legendary fireworks.

And later, capturing the rings of Saturn. Bill Nye, the science guy, explains why the beginnings of planet Earth may have actually started 900 million miles away.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LIN: The sounds of a Fourth of July holiday weekend. Rehearsals were in full swing today for a Capitol fourth. The PBS concert begins on the West Lawn of the Capitol tomorrow night at 8:00 Eastern. And among the celebrities planning to share their talents, actor Barry Bostwick, and singers, Clay Aiken, Vince Gill and Amy Grant. Security is extremely tight for the event. The show will be capped off by a spectacular fireworks display tomorrow night.

Well, the guys in charge of D.C.'s legendary fireworks are from east Tennessee. They're actually called Pyro Shows and setting up the dazzling display is no easy task. They actually work 10 hours a day, but the show's crew leader says it's a labor of love.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SCOTT GOINS, PYRO SHOW: Everybody recognizes this show as the nation's Capitol show, you know. This is the show to see on the Fourth of July. Some people may think, you know, we come out here for a day or something, and set a bunch of stuff up and light it with a Bic lighter or a match or something, you know. I mean we're far from that.

Well, we don't have any problem with ducks. They...

(AUDIO GAP) GOINS: The first shell that goes off, they'll be gone. Once we get our shells dropped, the plastic does the waterproofing for us, for rain, for things like that, and the aluminum foil is the fire protection.

There's a lot more planning to things like this than people think there are. There's about 14,000 pounds of explosives here. It is dangerous. There certainly is a lot more security here than they are probably anywhere else that we go. We won't be within probably 200 to 300 feet of the stuff. And you know if something goes wrong, you know, we're well protected. We come from a real small town. Everybody kind of knew everybody else. What else could I do to keep, you know, half a million people's attention for 20 minutes?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LIN: Well, in other news, it's almost like something from a science fiction movie, understanding Saturn. Still to come, amazing pictures from the first fly-by of the planet's moon, Titan, and what they mean to -- here on Earth -- up here on Earth.

Plus, if you're down on your job, we'll tell you what you may want to learn on -- well, with the Reverend Al Sharpton, but first, we're going to take you live to Kansas City where survivors of a workplace shooting give their account of the deadly rampage.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LIN: Well, we've got some pretty interesting headlines right now. For example, the new Iraqi government is reportedly considering an amnesty offer to insurgents and even pardons for rebels who have killed Americans. "The Associated Press" quotes a spokesman for Prime Minister Iyad Allawi saying opposition to U.S. troops might be considered justifiable because they're an occupying force.

Now, in some ways Iraq is worse off now than under Saddam Hussein. The General Accounting Office says a majority of Iraq's provinces have less electricity now than before the war. But it says more kids have been immunized and more people now have phone service.

And the White House is said to be closer to naming a new CIA director. This comes amid heightened concerns of a terrorist attack before the presidential elections. The agency's current chief, George Tenet, leaves his post a week from tomorrow. White House officials say more than one person is being considered for the job.

Another person has died after being wounded in yesterday's shooting spree at a food plant in Kansas City, Kansas. The shooter killed four others and himself at the scene. Reporter Krista Klaus of affiliate, KMDC, joins us right now live from a community prayer vigil with the very latest.

Krista, this now means six people dead.

KRISTA KLAUS, KMDC REPORTER: Yes, Carol. There will be prayers of thanksgiving for the survivors of the deadly shooting rampage as well as mourning for the six lives lost here yesterday.

Now, I talked with two men today who came face-to-face with the gunman yesterday and lived to tell about it.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

VINCE: I heard some noise in the hallway. And I thought it was firecrackers. The guy came in the locker room and -- I mean the lunch room and said, "I'm going to shoot you [ bleep ]" or something like that.

KLAUS (voice-over): This ConAgra worker identified only by his first name, Vince, says the gunman's bullets weren't aimed at anyone in particular.

VINCE: I thought I was going to get shot. And I said, no, I'm not hit. I'm going to keep on moving. Both my hands were full of blood and my pants and my jacket -- blood spattered on my jacket.

KLAUS: Vince says he crawled out of the lunch room and into the safety of a nearby office where he told a supervisor to call 911.

VINCE: I think he wanted to die and he wanted to take people with him. I mean that's my opinion.

KLAUS: A few moments earlier in the employee locker room, another worker, Andre Porter had just run into Elijah Brown.

ANDRE PORTER, CONAGRA WORKER: He came in there and asked me how I was doing and I said I was doing OK.

KLAUS: Then Porter heard a curious popping noise.

PORTER: And I seen him running past me. And I asked him, I said, what all you doing, popping firecrackers in here? And he stopped just for a half second and then he just took off in full sprint. And that's when I seen the pistol in his right hand going back and forth.

KLAUS: A few steps more and the horror of what just happened came into focus.

PORTER: So I got up and went to the other end of the locker room and to the hallway and that's when I seen Travers' body lying in a pool of blood.

KLAUS: Porter says his murdered co-workers did nothing to deserve their death...

PORTER: I don't understand why he went (UNINTELLIGIBLE).

KLAUS: ...any more than he deserved to be spared.

PORTER: Just thank the Lord that I'm here. You know I'm just here.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KLAUS: Now, a full 24 hours after the shooting rampage, very little is known about the gunman, Elijah Brown. Co-workers say he largely kept to himself and was recently rehired at the ConAgra plant after being laid off back in 2002.

Reporting live in Kansas City, Kansas. Carol, back to you.

LIN: All right. Thank you very much, Krista.

Elsewhere across America, the U.S. flag is flying at full staff over the White House today for first time since mourning began for former Ronald Reagan.

New Yorkers will lay the cornerstone tomorrow for the freedom tower. That will replace the World Trade Center twin towers destroyed on 9/11. The replacing of the 20-ton chunk of granite will launch construction on what will be the world's tallest building.

And in Pasadena, California, NASA scientists called the pictures released today of Saturn's moon, Titan, the best yet. But they're wondering why the photos of Titan's frozen surface show no evidence of liquids. The latest images taken by the Cassini spacecraft show a huge set of clouds and some dark and light shapes across the enormous moon.

The Cassini mission to Saturn made history today and the scientists releasing those images are incredibly excited.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ELIZABETH TURLE, CASSINI SCIENTIST: This is our best view of the surface yet and we really, at this point, don't completely know what to make of it. So we clearly have a lot of work to do. But it's very exciting.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LIN: So what do scientists hope to learn from studying Saturn and its moons? Bill Nye, is science guy, is in Los Angeles. He is just as excited about the Cassini project as the international team of scientists working on it.

Bill, what do you make of some of the pictures coming off of Titan? What are those clouds and dark spots, and why no water?

BILL NYE, THE SCIENCE GUY: Well, no water. It seems to be frozen if it's there. And the big thing is there are organics. You know this word? Do you know what the word organic comes from?

LIN: I think of like carrots and other green things.

NYE: Well, just the things that come from organisms.

LIN: OK. NYE: But generally it means things with carbon in it, carbon. And so, there are carbon compounds all over Titan. There seem to be icy mountains and maybe there is some kind of weather, these super cold temperatures.

And what people want to figure out is where does Titan come from? Did it come from way, way out in the solar system? Is it part of Saturn? How old is Saturn? How old are the rings? How old is the moon?

LIN: Well, what are some theories then? I mean if Titan wasn't a part of Saturn, then where would it have come from?

NYE: Well, the material that became Saturn became Titan. Did it come from the original disk or did it come from way out there? I say the disk, the thing that the solar system became. And you could say quite reasonably, how does this affect me? You know what do I care? I got -- we have wars going on here.

LIN: Yes, pretty pictures, but yes, what does it mean?

NYE: Well, what we all want to know, what makes humans crazy is where did we come from? What are we doing here? And another thing that makes a lot of people crazy is where are we going? How is it all going to end?

LIN: So how can Saturn answer that?

NYE: Well, you see, Saturn is part of this material that goes back to the very beginning of the solar system. It has been literally frozen since the solar system was formed. And so, by studying this material we may be able to get all these kind of subtle and remarkable insights about our place among the stars, our place in the universe.

And let me say also, the cost of this mission is $3.75 billion, which sounds like a lot. But over 22 years, that's a few hundred million. That's the cost of a fancy cup of coffee per taxpayer.

LIN: OK, all right, now that you put it that way.

NYE: OK, now, you know, when you think of another world, when you think of a remote place, you ask a kid, what's your favorite planet? People will say Saturn.

LIN: Well, it's the prettiest and it's the most mysterious. I mean where did those rings come from? And how is that...

NYE: Where did the rings come from, yes.

LIN: Do you know?

NYE: Why don't we have rings? Well, the rings -- where do the rings come from is roughly known or supposed that it is part of the original accretion, that's a fabulous word that means coming together. And so, the rings didn't quite form a planet, didn't quite form a moon, a giant moon of Saturn. They stayed in a stable disk. You know why not a sphere around Saturn? What's up with that? So you can ask these questions. And the better the pictures, the better the answers can be.

Well, let me say the other thing about Saturn that's quite striking is it's beautiful. It's this stunning world and humans didn't even know the rings were there until 1604, 1610, something like that. And people didn't realize the rings were separated in these wonderful patterns until the 1640s, 1650s. So who knows...

LIN: Right.

NYE: ...what we will learn by looking at these remarkable pictures now.

LIN: Right. I mean I think it's fascinating just even studying Titan and understanding more about our planet given the distance, 900 million miles.

NYE: That's right. Now, Titan's made of the same stuff, almost certainly, made of the same stuff that the Earth was, if I may, back in the day. Wait, back before we had days.

LIN: Back in the day.

(LAUGHTER)

NYE: When the Earth was just becoming the Earth. And so...

LIN: So many questions, yes.

NYE: ...by studying Titan, who knows what with will discover.

LIN: Yes, who knows. It's going to be a fantastic four years...

NYE: Oh, yes.

LIN: ...out in outer space.

NYE: Just keep an eye on the pictures, literally.

LIN: You bet.

NYE: Not on them, but looking at them because every day there will be a subtle insight and every day there'll be a little better understanding of where we came from...

LIN: I hope so.

NYE: ...and where we're going.

LIN: Thanks very much, Bill.

NYE: Have a good Independence Day weekend.

LIN: Hey, you too, and we'll watch the fireworks as well when we look to the skies. NYE: Yes, and go, Lance.

LIN: All right, go Lance in the Tour de France. Number six.

See you later.

His TV stints almost always spark conversation or even laughter and yet he's not done it yet.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The Reverend Sharpton is larger than life, OK? Whether you like him or whether you dislike him, he's a reality show in his own right.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LIN: There you go. The secret's out. Still to come, the Reverend Al Sharpton gets ready to give Donald Trump a run for his money, but first, the cost of war. We're going to take a look at the wounds you often don't see.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LIN: When troops return from war with battlefield injuries, their wounds are obvious. But psychological damage caused by combat is harder to detect. Our senior medical correspondent, Dr. Sanjay Gupta shares this story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SANJAY GUPTA, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): There is a cost of sending young men and women to war. Sometime they pay with their lives, but for many who do survive, there can be troubling emotional and mental changes.

SGT. DANNY FACTO, U.S. ARMY: His squad and my squad were working together on the 29th of September when he went down. Yes, I was there on that day (UNINTELLIGIBLE).

GUPTA: Sergeant Danny Facto is just 24 years old and has already learned a lesson.

FACTO: And you're always intense, you're always super serious, and you know you lose your temper over little things. And you know you're just definitely -- you're not the same person that deployed.

GUPTA: Collectively, many doctors cause this post-traumatic stress disorder or PTSD. It is common among those who see combat. About one in ten will suffer from it. But what is not common is getting treatment. Danny is one of the few to do so.

COL. CHARLES HOGE, U.S. ARMY: Soldiers and Marines who have mental health concerns frequently don't seek treatment. And the reason for that is because they perceive that they're -- that they'll be stigmatized if they do. GUPTA: Now, Dr. Charles Hoge is the author of a new study in the "New England Journal of Medicine" that acknowledges the psychiatric cost of war and the changes in treatment.

HOGE: The military is a culture of individuals who are probably not likely to seek help for mental health concerns.

GUPTA: For the first time, military personnel are being examined for the physical and mental impact of combat while the fighting continues. And the Department of Defense is requiring that every soldier be briefed on mental health before, during and after deployment. There are also an unprecedented number of treatment programs available. Still, programs alone can't be the answer.

STEVE ROBINSON, NATIONAL GULF WAR RESOURCE CENTER: You can't just say I got 100 programs; therefore I've done my job. And this study indicates that the sickest veterans who need the most help won't go to those studies. So what good are they?

GUPTA: Well, legitimate concerns about stigmatization and loss of career advancement remain. And it's a great price to pay especially for career military officers.

Danny's father, a former Marine, agrees.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They're like a live grenade. They carry out in civilian life. You always wonder yourself even if they're not saying it to you, are they looking at me differently if I was to go get counseling?

GUPTA: But even that is starting to change, slowly but surely.

MAJ. PAUL MORRISSEY, CHIEF OF MENTAL HEALTH SERVICES, FORT DRUM: Soldiers are concerned that coming to see us might harm their careers. I can say to them, sincerely, honestly, that not coming to get some assistance will harm their careers.

GUPTA: In Danny's case, that positive attitude towards treatment displayed by his commanding officers, family and fellow troops helped him overcome any stigma and get into the group therapy he needed.

FACTO: When I go to group and I talk with guys that are just like me, it helps a lot because I can, you know, discuss with guys that have been to combat, guys that have been shot at, guys that have lost their friends in combat, you know, guys that have killed other people.

GUPTA: Danny says the therapy has made him a better father, soldier and husband.

FACTO: When I came back, I was me, but I was different because of my experiences. And mental health and therapy really helps.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LIN: And Sanjay is here to talk a little bit more about this story.

Sanjay, you mentioned in piece that there is an evaluation done before troops actually go into the battlefield. Tell me a little bit more about that.

GUPTA: Yes, for the first time ever really, prewar, during the war and post war psychological status is really evaluated. The problem was that, you know, you'd evaluate afterwards 10 years, 15 years afterwards and you had nothing to compare it to. What was the war actually doing to these people was impossible to tell. You get the prewar evaluation, you're going to have something really directly to compare to. What's amazing, this war is ongoing in so many ways, as you know better than anybody, you're getting some of that data back right away.

LIN: What are the kinds of things that they ask?

GUPTA: They ask all -- it's a -- basically, a post-traumatic stress evaluation. Before the war, you obviously haven't had the trauma yet, so it's just sort of stressors of your life, sleep, how much does stress affect you, does it affect your work, does it affect your domestic relationships, does it affect your life in general. And then, afterwards, you know, a lot of people associate post-traumatic stress with flashbacks and things like that, which is certainly one component of it, but there's a lot of other things. You know you don't eat right, you don't sleep well. You take really highly functioning human beings who have jobs and are smart people, and they can't do anything...

LIN: It's about quality of life.

GUPTA: Right, very much so.

LIN: Yes. You were actually covering the war from a field hospital. Did you get a chance to see this in practice, in a high level, tense situation with the wounded coming in?

GUPTA: I did, and the story was really remarkable. In this case, it was an injured Iraqi child and a very touching, sad story. And everyone was affected by it. You could see it in their faces, every doctor, every soldier, every surgeon. The psychologist came in pretty quickly afterwards and basically, got everyone to talk about this particular incident. One of the things he said really struck me, which was that, you know, when a soldier is shot or has a physical injury, it's very obvious. It's objective. You can measure that. But your mental injuries are not. And we need to talk about that as well. They can be equally damaging in so many ways and that was really what the psychologist was focusing on right at the time, in the middle of this tent, in the middle of the desert with combat operations still in place.

LIN: So how do you cut through the macho military culture, though because the fact of the matter is the average soldier says I'm not going to say anything? This is going to damage my career and maybe I feel a little disoriented, but I'm going to be OK. GUPTA: Yes, I mean you're really hitting it on the head. We've talked to a lot of career military, very senior officers about that. The culture of the military doesn't typically allow for this. And there is a stigmatization, a real one that could affect your military career.

What's happening now -- and I think the tide is turning is that senior officers who have been affected either through depression, post-traumatic stress or some other anxiety type disorder are coming out and talking about their experiences. And the message is yes, there's a stigmatization, but not getting treatment will probably hurt you more than avoiding it.

LIN: All right, thank you, Sanjay.

GUPTA: Thank you.

LIN: A quick reminder, you can see Dr. Sanjay Gupta tomorrow morning at 8:30 Eastern on CNN's "HOUSE CALL." This weekend, Sanjay takes a look at fighting skin cancer.

And stay with us, coming up next, he fights for civil rights. He even fought for the White House. Now, the Reverend Al Sharpton is trying his hand at a different career. I'll explain his new endeavor when we return.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LIN: We know what Al Sharpton is up to now that he's not running for president. He knows a thing or two about getting a job and getting attention. CNN's Jeanne Moos reports on Reality Al.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JEANNE MOOS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): He's been arrested. He's been acquitted. He's even been stabbed. He's run for Senate. He's run for president. He's run after a TV crew. He's been decked by another guest on a TV talk show. But reality is it was only a matter of time till Al Sharpton ended up on a reality show.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't think Al Sharpton has any connection to reality whatsoever.

MOOS: Nevertheless, coming this fall on Spike TV, eight guys vie for their dream job on a show called "I Hate My Job."

(on camera): Al Sharpton is going to be like a career counselor.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, my god. Al Sharpton never had a j-o-b.

MOOS (voice-over): But he's wowed them on SNL.

AL SHARPTON, "I HATE MY JOB": I feel good.

MOOS: Some don't feel good about Sharpton doing a reality show.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This seems like a farce; put it like that, you know, something like a gimmick.

MOOS (on camera): So you're afraid they won't take him seriously?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right, right. You know how about if Al Gore did this?

MOOS (voice-over): That other Al doesn't have Al Sharpton's sharp humor.

SHARPTON: Every time I look at George Bush, I know that I'm qualified to at least do what he does.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The Reverend Sharpton is larger than life, OK. Whether you like him or whether dislike him, he's a reality show in his own right.

MOOS: But as one WAG wrote on the web, "Isn't there already a reality show about an overexposed New Yorker with bad hair?"

DONALD TRUMP, "THE APPRENTICE": You're fired.

MOOS: But Sharpton, you're hired despite the bad hair jokes.

JAY LENO, TALK SHOW HOST: Whose hairdo is that? And I realized today, show them -- look, do you see?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He does have bad hair.

MOOS (on camera): Al or...

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He wears it well.

MOOS (voice-over): And when it comes to ratings, maybe it's good to have bad hair as a punch line.

Jeanne Moos, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LIN: And that's all the time we have for this hour. Coming up next is "THE CAPITAL GANG." Then at 8:00 Eastern on "CNN PRESENTS," "A Flyboy's Story," George Bush in World War II. At 9:00 Ross Perot joins Larry King, and at 10:00 Eastern, the Reverend Jesse Jackson will join me live to discuss Bill Cosby's comments this week. He used an eye-opening word to challenge the African-American community. But right now, Mark Shields previews what the Gang has tonight.

MARK SHIELDS, HOST, THE CAPITAL GANG: "THE CAPITAL GANG" will look at the handover in Baghdad and Saddam Hussein's' arraignment, Senator John Kerry at odds with the mayor of Boston, and the Republican implosion in Illinois. All that and much more right here next on CNN.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com


Aired July 3, 2004 - 18:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CAROL LIN, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Carol Lin. "CNN LIVE SATURDAY" is just ahead, but first these headlines. Saddam Hussein's admirers are going public. About 150 demonstrators marched in Ba'qubah today in support of the imprisoned former Iraqi dictator. The rally came on the day a bomb killed six Iraqi National Guard members south of Baghdad. And a U.S. Marine died from wounds he received a day earlier.
The race for the White House is focusing on swing states in rural America. John Kerry tells Wisconsin dairy farmers he'd make the government more efficient and that he'd wage a more effective war on terror.

In suburban Cleveland Dick Cheney challenges Kerry to explain how he would create jobs.

The Massachusetts lottery is waiting for one winner of last night's $290 mega million jackpot to come forward. A store in Lowell sold the winning ticket. It's the second largest winning ticket in U.S. lottery history.

I'm Carol Lin and welcome to CNN LIVE SATURDAY. In this hour, the unseen wounds of war. For the first time, military men and women are being examined right on the battlefield for post-traumatic stress.

Also, NASA just released never before seen images of the Saturn moon, Titan. Bill Nye, the science guy, makes this whole story come alive.

But first, we begin with Iraq and a brand new government investigation. What happened to the $18 billion for rebuilding the country? CNN's Jeanne Meserve reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JEANNE MESERVE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Electricity, critical to rebuilding Iraq's economy, improving the quality of daily life, and winning the population's support. But according to a new report from the General Accounting Office, 13 of Iraq's 18 provinces have fewer hours of electrical service now than when Saddam Hussein was in power.

DAVID WALKER, GAO COMPTROLLER GENERAL: We're rebuilding infrastructure that has been deteriorated over a number of years and has been a casualty of war, of looting and of the insurgency. MESERVE: The GAO says inadequate security is undercutting efforts to rebuild infrastructure, but that Iraq's security forces are poorly trained and equipped, understaffed and unready to fight. One analyst blames what she calls the incompetent bureaucracy of the Coalition Provisional Authority, but also says the Iraqi people had unrealistic expectations.

DANIELLE PLETKA, AMERICAN ENTERPRISE INSTITUTE: I understand why they're there. If you live for 30 years under a horrible dictator, when he's gone you expect everything to come up roses and in many ways we advertised that things would come up roses.

MESERVE: But new numbers from the White House show that of the $18.4 billion appropriated by Congress last fall to rebuild Iraq, only $366 million or about two percent have been spent. The Office of Management and Budget argues that more than half the money is now in the pipeline. And the administration points to progress: 2,500 schools rehabilitated, 85 percent of children immunized, 50 percent more telephone users than before the war and no Saddam Hussein.

J. ADAM ERELI, STATE DEPT. DEPUTY SPOKESMAN: I find it difficult to argue persuasively that an Iraq free of Saddam Hussein is worse off than an Iraq with Saddam Hussein.

MESERVE: Though angering frustration with the slow pace of building has been evident on the streets there is hope that the new Iraqi government can do better.

FEISAL AL-ISTRABADI, ADVISER, IRAQ GOVERNING COUNCIL: Hopefully, the new government will be able to fulfill the major aims and hopes of the people of Iraq and not disappoint them.

MESERVE (on camera): But it remains to be seen, of course, if the new Iraqi government can do a better job meeting those hopes than the U.S. and its allies.

Jeanne Meserve, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LIN: If anyone thought the violence would peter out after Iraqis took control of their country, they were wrong. A bomb killed six Iraqi National Guard members today. It happened at an oil storage facility south of Baghdad. And west of the capital, a Marine died in the volatile Al Anbar Province where he had been wounded a day before. Back in Baghdad, the coalition is bragging about a raid where they found a weapons factory. U.S. troops found four potential car bombs and 50 pounds of plastic explosives. They are questioning some suspects.

And Saddam Hussein's fans -- yes, he has them -- marched, chanting his name and said his trial was illegitimate. One of his biggest supporters happens to be the daughter of Moammar Gadhafi. Aicha Moammar Gadhafi is joining Hussein's legal dream team and court watchers say it could be the trial of the century. Paul Williams is a former State Department lawyer and is currently an expert in international law and tribunals. He teaches law at American University in Washington.

Paul, what do you make of that, Moammar Gadhafi's daughter being on Saddam Hussein's legal team?

PAUL WILLIAMS, FORMER STATE DEPARTMENT LAWYER: Well, I think Saddam has clearly figured out that this is going to be a political theater and he is going to use this trial as best he can to gather the attention of the entire Arab world and to undermine instability or to create instability in Iraq. Getting Moammar Gadhafi's daughter on the list of lawyers gives him that much more publicity.

LIN: All right, Paul, we've got some terrific viewer questions I want to through at you to get some answers for them. First and foremost, one of our viewers asked, "Who is this judge, this young man who sat across from Saddam Hussein the other day?"

WILLIAMS: Well, this young judge is a newly minted criminal law judge in Iraq. And I suspect the reason why the Iraqis chose him is to demonstrate that Saddam is going to be tried by everyday Iraqis. Sure, he's a judge, but in a sense he represents the man on the street.

LIN: "What is the U.S. role and whose laws apply," another viewer asked that.

WILLIAMS: Well, this is very interesting. The U.S. role is significant. When we saw the film on Thursday, we saw only Iraqis. But I would imagine that the Americans are providing anywhere between 70 and 80 percent of the technical expertise. You won't see them. They'll be behind the scenes. And one way they will keep them behind the scenes is to use Iraqi law. Saddam is being charged with laws that he enacted.

LIN: That's interesting. And does that work against him or in his favor, in a sense?

WILLIAMS: Well, there are two things that work against him. He -- and importantly, against him legally. First, he continues to insist that he was president and commander-in-chief, which essentially is an admission that he controlled the forces, which committed genocide or invading the neighboring states and that'll clearly work against him. And the second is he wants to argue this trial is illegitimate. And the Iraqis have been very clever to use his laws against him and it's going to be much more difficult for him to undermine the legitimacy of that type of tribunal

LIN: All right. Another question a viewer asks, "Saddam says he is the Iraqi president. Was he ever officially removed from that position?" I mean we make a lot of assumptions, obviously, because the Americans occupy the country and he went on the run.

WILLIAMS: Yes, well, technically he was removed from that position and has been replaced by the interim government, but in his mind and in the mind of some Iraqis, he's still the president and he's going to run that not as a legal argument, but he's going to run that as a political argument in order to promote instability. LIN: Paul, do you see any way around the death penalty in this case?

WILLIAMS: No, I think that the CPA, Paul Bremer, lifted the death penalty under pressure from American allies. Quite frankly, the Iraqis are used to the death penalty. They expect the death penalty. It's part of their legal tradition and I think Saddam knows this. And so, he's going to be playing -- you know, he's pulling out all the stops in his defense because he knows what's going to happen at the end.

LIN: So how do you think this trial is going to play out? And is the death penalty a foregone conclusion in this case?

WILLIAMS: Well, I think Saddam has assumed it's a foregone conclusion. And one of the problems is the Iraqis and the internationals who are helping him will take a very legalistic approach. Saddam, he's going to hire some lawyers, pepper the tribunal with motions and he's going to run his political case.

And I fear the Iraqis haven't figured out -- figured this out. And this trial over the course of a year, year and a half could substantially destabilize Iraq if it's not played properly by the Iraqis.

LIN: All right. Well, I know there was an opportunity in the court for Saddam Hussein to make those statements as he saw it. It appeared that the Iraqis didn't have control of the proceedings. But they might think twice if they'll give him that opportunity again.

WILLIAMS: They're going to have to.

LIN: They will. Paul Williams, thank you very much.

WILLIAMS: Thank you.

LIN: Forty years ago this week, Democratic President Lyndon Johnson signed a ground breaking bill that guaranteed new protections for America's minorities. Since that day, Republicans have struggled to make inroads with minority voters. But the Bush campaign is working hard to change that. CNN's Elaine Quijano explains.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ladies and gentlemen, the president of the United States of America, the greatest country in the world.

ELAINE QUIJANO, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): At Philadelphia's Greater Exodus Baptist Church last week an enthusiastic reception for President Bush on a visit to talk about HIV/AIDS initiatives. The trip was also a chance to reach out to African- American voters in a battleground state, Pennsylvania, reaffirming his support for faith-based groups.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: This is a church that trains people coming off welfare rolls to find work. Isn't that a wonderful...

(APPLAUSE)

QUIJANO: The race against Democratic rival, John Kerry, is shaping up to be tight. Minority votes could prove key and at a time when the president's overall approval numbers are dropping, his campaign hopes to boost his standing among minority groups. One way he's connecting, through religion, says the Reverend Herb Lusk, the pastor at Greater Exodus.

REV. HERB LUSK, GREATER EXOSUD BAPTISTS CHURCH: He's the kind of guy that I can support as a minister of the gospel, simple as that. I mean, I can support someone who will be pro family and will be pro life.

QUIJANO: The campaign also wants to broaden its reach to Hispanic voters, sending its bilingual message and mobilizing thousands of volunteers.

SHARON CASTRILO, BUSH-CHENEY '04: It's safe to say that we've started way earlier, that we're devoting more resources and that we're using the Internet in very unique and unprecedented ways. And so we're trying new things. We're being very aggressive.

QUIJANO: Campaign officials also point to Mr. Bush's racially diverse cabinet as evidence of his support for minorities. But critics say the high visibility hasn't been translated to policy.

CORNELL BELCHER, DEMOCRATIC POLLSTER: Many of the key issues before the African-American community are under assault from Bush. I mean take a look at the college funding, Pell grants, cuts in college funding with Pell grants, attacks on affirmative action. So no, visibility has not equated black power.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

QUIJANO (on camera): Now, in 2000, President Bush garnered just eight percent of the African-American vote. This time around, of course, the president looking to boost that number. Also, the president is looking to make inroads among Hispanics as well where in 2000 he garnered about 35 percent of that vote -- Carol.

LIN: All right. Thanks very much, Elaine.

Well, be it his ties to Halliburton or his foul language on Capitol Hill, Vice President Cheney has been such a lightning rod for criticism lately, you might think the campaign would try sending him back to an undisclosed location. But he's taking a higher profile than ever right now hop scotching across swing states to sell the president's message. CNN's Ed Henry has more.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ED HENRY, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): As Senator John Kerry moves closer to selecting his running mate, Vice President Cheney's role in the presidential campaign is growing. The Bush campaign sees the vice president as a major asset, which is why he's serving as surrogate in chief on a bus tour rolling through three battleground states. First stop, the critical state of Ohio, where Mr. Cheney was greeted by a rousing Republican crowd in a suburb of Cleveland.

DICK CHENEY, VICE PRESIDENT OF UNITED STATES: We were proud to carry Ohio in 2000 and we're counting on you again in 2004.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You got it.

CHENEY: All right.

HENRY: No Republican has won a White House race without carrying Ohio, but recent polls have the president trailing Senator Kerry here. Local Republicans like Senator George Voinovich say the economy and Iraq are the two top issues in Ohio. The state has been especially hard hit by the loss of manufacturing jobs. So Mr. Cheney asserted that the Bush administration's three tax cuts are helping to turn the tide.

The vice president ridiculed Senator Kerry, charging that he's voted to raise taxes an average of every three weeks over the last 20 years.

CHENEY: At lease the folks back in Massachusetts knew he was on the job.

HENRY (on camera): Democrats reject that charge and say Mr. Cheney is so unpopular that his larger role in the campaign trail will backfire with swing voters.

(voice-over): The Bush campaign is also stressing the vice president's credentials. Senator Voinovich noted that Mr. Cheney served as White House chief of staff, a member of Congress and defense secretary.

SEN. GEORGE VOINOVICH (R), OHIO: Regardless folks of who the Democrats put up as their vice presidential candidate, they'll never be able to hold a candle to Dick Cheney.

HENRY: The campaign also wants to humanize the vice president who brought his wife. They joked about their courtship and introduced a granddaughter and then Mr. Cheney broke some news.

CHENEY: Yesterday, our first grandson was born.

HENRY: Ed Henry, CNN, with the vice president in Parma, Ohio.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LIN: One footnote about a little in your face jab from today's rally organizers in Ohio, at one point the speakers began blaring John Mellencamp's "R-O-C-K in The USA" and a song by Bruce Springsteen. Both musicians have been extremely critical of President Bush. In fact, Mellencamp recently wrote an open letter to Americans calling and saying it's time to take back our country. Whoops. Senator John Kerry is hoping other Americans are just as fired up as John Mellencamp. Today, the presidential hopeful spent time in rural Wisconsin stumping before dairy farmers inside a large shed used to store tractors. Kerry lashed out at the man he's trying to unseat, saying President Bush has done a poor job fighting the war on terror. Kerry also touched on domestic themes saying the White House has spent plenty but produced little.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOHN KERRY (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The richest country on the face of the planet, most technology in the world, spends more on health care than any other nation in the world and yet, we rank 13th. We're way behind on infant mortality, on nutrition, on certain other things. That's not acceptable. And you don't even hear this president talk about it. Now, that's unusual. Usually, they got a fake plan or they got something they offer. But they don't even have a fake plan here. They're just ignoring 44 million Americans who don't have any health care.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LIN: Fighting words. John Kerry is making another campaign stop today in Dubuque, Iowa, where he plans to watch holiday fireworks.

Well, a teenage phenomenon from Russia takes on U.S. tennis star, Serena Williams. Still to come, the upset at the Wimbledon finals and is Russia the new powerhouse in the game of tennis?

Plus, they're the new freshmen on campus. These are not your typical combat cadets.

And later, understanding the rings of Saturn, a look at the snapshots and how they benefit the science world.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LIN: So what does it take to make a leader in the war on terror? Someone who stands in the line of fire able to command and control the battlefield. Four years at West Point can teach the right stuff, but the war in Iraq is shaking things up. Our Alina Cho reports on a group of freshman cadets fresh from the front lines.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Last name, closely follow all instructions, move out, candidates.

ALINA CHO, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It is 6:30 in the morning and these new West Point cadets are getting a quick lesson in military life.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Three, two, one. Move it out here, cadet. Hurry up. Hurry up.

CHO: A lesson in restraint... UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You guys, over the next six weeks, you will have four responses that you will use for everything. They are yes, sir or ma'am, no, sir or ma'am, no excuse, sir or ma'am, and sir or ma'am, I do not understand.

CHO: ...and a lesson reminiscent of grade school.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Does anyone need to use the bathroom?

CHO: These first year cadets are different. They are war veterans who have served in Iraq.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We still have volumes to learn about leadership.

CHO: So they signed up for four years of West Point followed by five years of active duty at a time when support for the war is slipping.

(on camera): What was it about what you did overseas that made you want to come back here and sign up for another nine years?

ROBERT DAVIS, JR., WEST POINT CADET: I would say one of the biggest things is the bond that you make with fellow soldiers.

CHO (voice-over): Brian Carlson was in Iraq when he was accepted, almost didn't come, until he talked to fellow soldiers.

BRIAN CARLSON, WEST POINT CADET: Every one of them was like, why are you even talking to us? You need to get out of here as quickly as possible. You need to go and become an officer.

CHO (on camera): This year, there are 24 West Point cadets who have served in Iraq or Afghanistan, compared to last year when only eight had combat experience. The main reason for the increase, this is the longest period of time the U.S. has been involved in a conflict since Vietnam.

JOHN PESZIERKO, WEST POINT CADET: You sort of feel like you can come to school, get out there and learn on those lessons and put them to use, be a good leader.

CHO (voice-over): To their fellow first year cadets...

(ON CAMERA): ...what's your advice to them?

CARLSON: To tell them that it's going to be OK. It's not the end of the world.

CHO: Tell me what it is about military life that is so special?

CARLSON: I believe in the freedoms that we as Americans have and I'm willing to die for everyone else's freedom just as people in the past have been willing to die for mine.

CHO (voice-over): These future military leaders... UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do solemnly swear...

CROWD: Do solemnly swear...

CHO: ...are taking the oath.

Alina Cho, CNN, West Point, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LIN: Time now for some news around the world.

In Afghanistan, the U.S. military is investigating more claims of prisoner abuse. At least four people died in U.S. custody. The military recently opened at least two new investigations after former prisoners complained.

In Nairobi, Kenya, violent clashes. Police fought with hundreds of demonstrators using tear gas, batons and a water cannon. Police or people took to the streets defying a ban on public support for constitutional reform. Kenya's Red Cross says about 20 people were injured.

And in Belgium, an opening race in the Tour de France goes pretty well for Lance Armstrong. He comes in second. The tough Texan is aiming for a sixth straight win at the Tour de France, never been done before.

Tennis has a new superstar. This year's Wimbledon women's champion is a 6-foot tall teenager born in Siberia. Maria Sharapova beat Serena Williams in straight sets today at the all-England tennis club at 6-1, 6-4. It was the most lopsided women's final in 12 years.

Richard Pagliaro is the web editor for "Tennis Week" magazine.

Richard, did you -- you watched the match. I want to share a clip with you of what happened right after the match and get your impressions.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Who has watched enough to know this tradition?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A 17-year-old, the only ladies winner when she won in 1997.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And I think she's kind of busy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LIN: The poor girl trying to call her mother down in Florida. An emotional ending to today's match, Richard. It really says a lot about this young woman's priorities and how much her parents sacrifice bringing her to this country when she was just 7 years old. RICHARD PAGLIARO, WEB EDITOR, "TENNIS WEEK" MAGAZINE: They certainly did, Carol. They pretty much sacrificed everything for their daughter. She believed it was her destiny to become a tennis champion and she did it today. It was just a really focused, fearless, ferocious effort from Maria Sharapova. And she basically stood on the baseline and took it right to Serena Williams and took the title away from her. You rarely see Serena Williams reduced to retrieving and playing defense so much in a major match. And Sharapova, to me, it was the equivalent of seeing a really hungry boxer just stand toe-to-toe with a heavyweight champion and just basically knock her out. I mean she was swinging hard and swinging effectively with every shot. I mean it was astonishing.

LIN: What happened? I mean, did even she -- in her own mind, when she entered Wimbledon, did she have it in her mind that she actually could get this thing, win?

PAGLIARO: She swept singles and doubles titles at Birmingham. It was a grass court tune-up tournament. And she said after winning that, she said, "I believe I can win Wimbledon." Why not? I mean she's a really confident girl. I think in her heart, yes, she absolutely believed she could win. But you know Serena Williams had only lost one major final in her life. And it was just really stunning to me how effective Sharapova was, especially because Serena Williams, in my view, has the best serve in the history of women's tennis. Sharapova broke her serve four times and only dropped her own serve once. So she was really effective and she just challenged her from the first ball. Everything about Sharapova's performance, her body language, her strokes, her shrieking, I mean it just screamed aggression, you know. She was there to take the title.

LIN: Yes, she wanted it.

PAGLIARO: And she did it.

LIN: She wanted it. This is a girl also that's had to fight off a lot of -- frankly, what affects a lot of young attractive women in sports, the temptations of endorsements and the attention for her looks and not for her sport. I understand that she actually refuses to talk to reporters about anything other than her game specifically.

PAGLIARO: Yes, I think she's a smart girl and she's smart enough to realize that tennis is what got her to this point. So she does have a modeling contract with IMG. She does things on the side like that. But you know she's a tennis player and that's what she wants to be.

LIN: So what's going to happen to Serena? What do you expect from her now?

PAGLIARO: I think, you know, what you're going to hear is people question the future of Serena and is she ever going to dominate again. In my opinion, Serena Williams is still the best player in tennis despite the fact that she lost today and she's ranked tenth in the world. You know the best player doesn't always win. We see that in other sports, whether it's boxing, whether it's Tiger Woods, whether it's, you know, the Yankees losing to the Mets, the Lakers. I think Serena Williams is going to be back and she's going to be back with a vengeance. I would expect Serena Williams to win the U.S. Open if she stays healthy and if she's committed to tennis.

She has a lot of other things going on in her career and her life. I mean, she missed eight months of tennis after knee surgery last year. She had the tragic murder of her sister. She's had a lot of stuff to deal with in the past year. And I think, you know, tennis has become a job for her and she knows she's got to work harder at it to sustain the immense level of success she's had.

LIN: Well, not only does she have the taste of blood today, but she was incredibly gracious at the ceremony with Maria...

PAGLIARO: Very much so, yes.

LIN: Thank you very much, Richard.

PAGLIARO: Thank you, Carol. Thanks very much.

LIN: Still to come on CNN LIVE SATURDAY, 14,000 pounds of explosives on the national mall and it's all for a good cause. Up next, I'll introduce you to the men behind the legendary fireworks.

And later, capturing the rings of Saturn. Bill Nye, the science guy, explains why the beginnings of planet Earth may have actually started 900 million miles away.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LIN: The sounds of a Fourth of July holiday weekend. Rehearsals were in full swing today for a Capitol fourth. The PBS concert begins on the West Lawn of the Capitol tomorrow night at 8:00 Eastern. And among the celebrities planning to share their talents, actor Barry Bostwick, and singers, Clay Aiken, Vince Gill and Amy Grant. Security is extremely tight for the event. The show will be capped off by a spectacular fireworks display tomorrow night.

Well, the guys in charge of D.C.'s legendary fireworks are from east Tennessee. They're actually called Pyro Shows and setting up the dazzling display is no easy task. They actually work 10 hours a day, but the show's crew leader says it's a labor of love.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SCOTT GOINS, PYRO SHOW: Everybody recognizes this show as the nation's Capitol show, you know. This is the show to see on the Fourth of July. Some people may think, you know, we come out here for a day or something, and set a bunch of stuff up and light it with a Bic lighter or a match or something, you know. I mean we're far from that.

Well, we don't have any problem with ducks. They...

(AUDIO GAP) GOINS: The first shell that goes off, they'll be gone. Once we get our shells dropped, the plastic does the waterproofing for us, for rain, for things like that, and the aluminum foil is the fire protection.

There's a lot more planning to things like this than people think there are. There's about 14,000 pounds of explosives here. It is dangerous. There certainly is a lot more security here than they are probably anywhere else that we go. We won't be within probably 200 to 300 feet of the stuff. And you know if something goes wrong, you know, we're well protected. We come from a real small town. Everybody kind of knew everybody else. What else could I do to keep, you know, half a million people's attention for 20 minutes?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LIN: Well, in other news, it's almost like something from a science fiction movie, understanding Saturn. Still to come, amazing pictures from the first fly-by of the planet's moon, Titan, and what they mean to -- here on Earth -- up here on Earth.

Plus, if you're down on your job, we'll tell you what you may want to learn on -- well, with the Reverend Al Sharpton, but first, we're going to take you live to Kansas City where survivors of a workplace shooting give their account of the deadly rampage.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LIN: Well, we've got some pretty interesting headlines right now. For example, the new Iraqi government is reportedly considering an amnesty offer to insurgents and even pardons for rebels who have killed Americans. "The Associated Press" quotes a spokesman for Prime Minister Iyad Allawi saying opposition to U.S. troops might be considered justifiable because they're an occupying force.

Now, in some ways Iraq is worse off now than under Saddam Hussein. The General Accounting Office says a majority of Iraq's provinces have less electricity now than before the war. But it says more kids have been immunized and more people now have phone service.

And the White House is said to be closer to naming a new CIA director. This comes amid heightened concerns of a terrorist attack before the presidential elections. The agency's current chief, George Tenet, leaves his post a week from tomorrow. White House officials say more than one person is being considered for the job.

Another person has died after being wounded in yesterday's shooting spree at a food plant in Kansas City, Kansas. The shooter killed four others and himself at the scene. Reporter Krista Klaus of affiliate, KMDC, joins us right now live from a community prayer vigil with the very latest.

Krista, this now means six people dead.

KRISTA KLAUS, KMDC REPORTER: Yes, Carol. There will be prayers of thanksgiving for the survivors of the deadly shooting rampage as well as mourning for the six lives lost here yesterday.

Now, I talked with two men today who came face-to-face with the gunman yesterday and lived to tell about it.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

VINCE: I heard some noise in the hallway. And I thought it was firecrackers. The guy came in the locker room and -- I mean the lunch room and said, "I'm going to shoot you [ bleep ]" or something like that.

KLAUS (voice-over): This ConAgra worker identified only by his first name, Vince, says the gunman's bullets weren't aimed at anyone in particular.

VINCE: I thought I was going to get shot. And I said, no, I'm not hit. I'm going to keep on moving. Both my hands were full of blood and my pants and my jacket -- blood spattered on my jacket.

KLAUS: Vince says he crawled out of the lunch room and into the safety of a nearby office where he told a supervisor to call 911.

VINCE: I think he wanted to die and he wanted to take people with him. I mean that's my opinion.

KLAUS: A few moments earlier in the employee locker room, another worker, Andre Porter had just run into Elijah Brown.

ANDRE PORTER, CONAGRA WORKER: He came in there and asked me how I was doing and I said I was doing OK.

KLAUS: Then Porter heard a curious popping noise.

PORTER: And I seen him running past me. And I asked him, I said, what all you doing, popping firecrackers in here? And he stopped just for a half second and then he just took off in full sprint. And that's when I seen the pistol in his right hand going back and forth.

KLAUS: A few steps more and the horror of what just happened came into focus.

PORTER: So I got up and went to the other end of the locker room and to the hallway and that's when I seen Travers' body lying in a pool of blood.

KLAUS: Porter says his murdered co-workers did nothing to deserve their death...

PORTER: I don't understand why he went (UNINTELLIGIBLE).

KLAUS: ...any more than he deserved to be spared.

PORTER: Just thank the Lord that I'm here. You know I'm just here.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KLAUS: Now, a full 24 hours after the shooting rampage, very little is known about the gunman, Elijah Brown. Co-workers say he largely kept to himself and was recently rehired at the ConAgra plant after being laid off back in 2002.

Reporting live in Kansas City, Kansas. Carol, back to you.

LIN: All right. Thank you very much, Krista.

Elsewhere across America, the U.S. flag is flying at full staff over the White House today for first time since mourning began for former Ronald Reagan.

New Yorkers will lay the cornerstone tomorrow for the freedom tower. That will replace the World Trade Center twin towers destroyed on 9/11. The replacing of the 20-ton chunk of granite will launch construction on what will be the world's tallest building.

And in Pasadena, California, NASA scientists called the pictures released today of Saturn's moon, Titan, the best yet. But they're wondering why the photos of Titan's frozen surface show no evidence of liquids. The latest images taken by the Cassini spacecraft show a huge set of clouds and some dark and light shapes across the enormous moon.

The Cassini mission to Saturn made history today and the scientists releasing those images are incredibly excited.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ELIZABETH TURLE, CASSINI SCIENTIST: This is our best view of the surface yet and we really, at this point, don't completely know what to make of it. So we clearly have a lot of work to do. But it's very exciting.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LIN: So what do scientists hope to learn from studying Saturn and its moons? Bill Nye, is science guy, is in Los Angeles. He is just as excited about the Cassini project as the international team of scientists working on it.

Bill, what do you make of some of the pictures coming off of Titan? What are those clouds and dark spots, and why no water?

BILL NYE, THE SCIENCE GUY: Well, no water. It seems to be frozen if it's there. And the big thing is there are organics. You know this word? Do you know what the word organic comes from?

LIN: I think of like carrots and other green things.

NYE: Well, just the things that come from organisms.

LIN: OK. NYE: But generally it means things with carbon in it, carbon. And so, there are carbon compounds all over Titan. There seem to be icy mountains and maybe there is some kind of weather, these super cold temperatures.

And what people want to figure out is where does Titan come from? Did it come from way, way out in the solar system? Is it part of Saturn? How old is Saturn? How old are the rings? How old is the moon?

LIN: Well, what are some theories then? I mean if Titan wasn't a part of Saturn, then where would it have come from?

NYE: Well, the material that became Saturn became Titan. Did it come from the original disk or did it come from way out there? I say the disk, the thing that the solar system became. And you could say quite reasonably, how does this affect me? You know what do I care? I got -- we have wars going on here.

LIN: Yes, pretty pictures, but yes, what does it mean?

NYE: Well, what we all want to know, what makes humans crazy is where did we come from? What are we doing here? And another thing that makes a lot of people crazy is where are we going? How is it all going to end?

LIN: So how can Saturn answer that?

NYE: Well, you see, Saturn is part of this material that goes back to the very beginning of the solar system. It has been literally frozen since the solar system was formed. And so, by studying this material we may be able to get all these kind of subtle and remarkable insights about our place among the stars, our place in the universe.

And let me say also, the cost of this mission is $3.75 billion, which sounds like a lot. But over 22 years, that's a few hundred million. That's the cost of a fancy cup of coffee per taxpayer.

LIN: OK, all right, now that you put it that way.

NYE: OK, now, you know, when you think of another world, when you think of a remote place, you ask a kid, what's your favorite planet? People will say Saturn.

LIN: Well, it's the prettiest and it's the most mysterious. I mean where did those rings come from? And how is that...

NYE: Where did the rings come from, yes.

LIN: Do you know?

NYE: Why don't we have rings? Well, the rings -- where do the rings come from is roughly known or supposed that it is part of the original accretion, that's a fabulous word that means coming together. And so, the rings didn't quite form a planet, didn't quite form a moon, a giant moon of Saturn. They stayed in a stable disk. You know why not a sphere around Saturn? What's up with that? So you can ask these questions. And the better the pictures, the better the answers can be.

Well, let me say the other thing about Saturn that's quite striking is it's beautiful. It's this stunning world and humans didn't even know the rings were there until 1604, 1610, something like that. And people didn't realize the rings were separated in these wonderful patterns until the 1640s, 1650s. So who knows...

LIN: Right.

NYE: ...what we will learn by looking at these remarkable pictures now.

LIN: Right. I mean I think it's fascinating just even studying Titan and understanding more about our planet given the distance, 900 million miles.

NYE: That's right. Now, Titan's made of the same stuff, almost certainly, made of the same stuff that the Earth was, if I may, back in the day. Wait, back before we had days.

LIN: Back in the day.

(LAUGHTER)

NYE: When the Earth was just becoming the Earth. And so...

LIN: So many questions, yes.

NYE: ...by studying Titan, who knows what with will discover.

LIN: Yes, who knows. It's going to be a fantastic four years...

NYE: Oh, yes.

LIN: ...out in outer space.

NYE: Just keep an eye on the pictures, literally.

LIN: You bet.

NYE: Not on them, but looking at them because every day there will be a subtle insight and every day there'll be a little better understanding of where we came from...

LIN: I hope so.

NYE: ...and where we're going.

LIN: Thanks very much, Bill.

NYE: Have a good Independence Day weekend.

LIN: Hey, you too, and we'll watch the fireworks as well when we look to the skies. NYE: Yes, and go, Lance.

LIN: All right, go Lance in the Tour de France. Number six.

See you later.

His TV stints almost always spark conversation or even laughter and yet he's not done it yet.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The Reverend Sharpton is larger than life, OK? Whether you like him or whether you dislike him, he's a reality show in his own right.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LIN: There you go. The secret's out. Still to come, the Reverend Al Sharpton gets ready to give Donald Trump a run for his money, but first, the cost of war. We're going to take a look at the wounds you often don't see.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LIN: When troops return from war with battlefield injuries, their wounds are obvious. But psychological damage caused by combat is harder to detect. Our senior medical correspondent, Dr. Sanjay Gupta shares this story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SANJAY GUPTA, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): There is a cost of sending young men and women to war. Sometime they pay with their lives, but for many who do survive, there can be troubling emotional and mental changes.

SGT. DANNY FACTO, U.S. ARMY: His squad and my squad were working together on the 29th of September when he went down. Yes, I was there on that day (UNINTELLIGIBLE).

GUPTA: Sergeant Danny Facto is just 24 years old and has already learned a lesson.

FACTO: And you're always intense, you're always super serious, and you know you lose your temper over little things. And you know you're just definitely -- you're not the same person that deployed.

GUPTA: Collectively, many doctors cause this post-traumatic stress disorder or PTSD. It is common among those who see combat. About one in ten will suffer from it. But what is not common is getting treatment. Danny is one of the few to do so.

COL. CHARLES HOGE, U.S. ARMY: Soldiers and Marines who have mental health concerns frequently don't seek treatment. And the reason for that is because they perceive that they're -- that they'll be stigmatized if they do. GUPTA: Now, Dr. Charles Hoge is the author of a new study in the "New England Journal of Medicine" that acknowledges the psychiatric cost of war and the changes in treatment.

HOGE: The military is a culture of individuals who are probably not likely to seek help for mental health concerns.

GUPTA: For the first time, military personnel are being examined for the physical and mental impact of combat while the fighting continues. And the Department of Defense is requiring that every soldier be briefed on mental health before, during and after deployment. There are also an unprecedented number of treatment programs available. Still, programs alone can't be the answer.

STEVE ROBINSON, NATIONAL GULF WAR RESOURCE CENTER: You can't just say I got 100 programs; therefore I've done my job. And this study indicates that the sickest veterans who need the most help won't go to those studies. So what good are they?

GUPTA: Well, legitimate concerns about stigmatization and loss of career advancement remain. And it's a great price to pay especially for career military officers.

Danny's father, a former Marine, agrees.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They're like a live grenade. They carry out in civilian life. You always wonder yourself even if they're not saying it to you, are they looking at me differently if I was to go get counseling?

GUPTA: But even that is starting to change, slowly but surely.

MAJ. PAUL MORRISSEY, CHIEF OF MENTAL HEALTH SERVICES, FORT DRUM: Soldiers are concerned that coming to see us might harm their careers. I can say to them, sincerely, honestly, that not coming to get some assistance will harm their careers.

GUPTA: In Danny's case, that positive attitude towards treatment displayed by his commanding officers, family and fellow troops helped him overcome any stigma and get into the group therapy he needed.

FACTO: When I go to group and I talk with guys that are just like me, it helps a lot because I can, you know, discuss with guys that have been to combat, guys that have been shot at, guys that have lost their friends in combat, you know, guys that have killed other people.

GUPTA: Danny says the therapy has made him a better father, soldier and husband.

FACTO: When I came back, I was me, but I was different because of my experiences. And mental health and therapy really helps.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LIN: And Sanjay is here to talk a little bit more about this story.

Sanjay, you mentioned in piece that there is an evaluation done before troops actually go into the battlefield. Tell me a little bit more about that.

GUPTA: Yes, for the first time ever really, prewar, during the war and post war psychological status is really evaluated. The problem was that, you know, you'd evaluate afterwards 10 years, 15 years afterwards and you had nothing to compare it to. What was the war actually doing to these people was impossible to tell. You get the prewar evaluation, you're going to have something really directly to compare to. What's amazing, this war is ongoing in so many ways, as you know better than anybody, you're getting some of that data back right away.

LIN: What are the kinds of things that they ask?

GUPTA: They ask all -- it's a -- basically, a post-traumatic stress evaluation. Before the war, you obviously haven't had the trauma yet, so it's just sort of stressors of your life, sleep, how much does stress affect you, does it affect your work, does it affect your domestic relationships, does it affect your life in general. And then, afterwards, you know, a lot of people associate post-traumatic stress with flashbacks and things like that, which is certainly one component of it, but there's a lot of other things. You know you don't eat right, you don't sleep well. You take really highly functioning human beings who have jobs and are smart people, and they can't do anything...

LIN: It's about quality of life.

GUPTA: Right, very much so.

LIN: Yes. You were actually covering the war from a field hospital. Did you get a chance to see this in practice, in a high level, tense situation with the wounded coming in?

GUPTA: I did, and the story was really remarkable. In this case, it was an injured Iraqi child and a very touching, sad story. And everyone was affected by it. You could see it in their faces, every doctor, every soldier, every surgeon. The psychologist came in pretty quickly afterwards and basically, got everyone to talk about this particular incident. One of the things he said really struck me, which was that, you know, when a soldier is shot or has a physical injury, it's very obvious. It's objective. You can measure that. But your mental injuries are not. And we need to talk about that as well. They can be equally damaging in so many ways and that was really what the psychologist was focusing on right at the time, in the middle of this tent, in the middle of the desert with combat operations still in place.

LIN: So how do you cut through the macho military culture, though because the fact of the matter is the average soldier says I'm not going to say anything? This is going to damage my career and maybe I feel a little disoriented, but I'm going to be OK. GUPTA: Yes, I mean you're really hitting it on the head. We've talked to a lot of career military, very senior officers about that. The culture of the military doesn't typically allow for this. And there is a stigmatization, a real one that could affect your military career.

What's happening now -- and I think the tide is turning is that senior officers who have been affected either through depression, post-traumatic stress or some other anxiety type disorder are coming out and talking about their experiences. And the message is yes, there's a stigmatization, but not getting treatment will probably hurt you more than avoiding it.

LIN: All right, thank you, Sanjay.

GUPTA: Thank you.

LIN: A quick reminder, you can see Dr. Sanjay Gupta tomorrow morning at 8:30 Eastern on CNN's "HOUSE CALL." This weekend, Sanjay takes a look at fighting skin cancer.

And stay with us, coming up next, he fights for civil rights. He even fought for the White House. Now, the Reverend Al Sharpton is trying his hand at a different career. I'll explain his new endeavor when we return.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LIN: We know what Al Sharpton is up to now that he's not running for president. He knows a thing or two about getting a job and getting attention. CNN's Jeanne Moos reports on Reality Al.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JEANNE MOOS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): He's been arrested. He's been acquitted. He's even been stabbed. He's run for Senate. He's run for president. He's run after a TV crew. He's been decked by another guest on a TV talk show. But reality is it was only a matter of time till Al Sharpton ended up on a reality show.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't think Al Sharpton has any connection to reality whatsoever.

MOOS: Nevertheless, coming this fall on Spike TV, eight guys vie for their dream job on a show called "I Hate My Job."

(on camera): Al Sharpton is going to be like a career counselor.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, my god. Al Sharpton never had a j-o-b.

MOOS (voice-over): But he's wowed them on SNL.

AL SHARPTON, "I HATE MY JOB": I feel good.

MOOS: Some don't feel good about Sharpton doing a reality show.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This seems like a farce; put it like that, you know, something like a gimmick.

MOOS (on camera): So you're afraid they won't take him seriously?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right, right. You know how about if Al Gore did this?

MOOS (voice-over): That other Al doesn't have Al Sharpton's sharp humor.

SHARPTON: Every time I look at George Bush, I know that I'm qualified to at least do what he does.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The Reverend Sharpton is larger than life, OK. Whether you like him or whether dislike him, he's a reality show in his own right.

MOOS: But as one WAG wrote on the web, "Isn't there already a reality show about an overexposed New Yorker with bad hair?"

DONALD TRUMP, "THE APPRENTICE": You're fired.

MOOS: But Sharpton, you're hired despite the bad hair jokes.

JAY LENO, TALK SHOW HOST: Whose hairdo is that? And I realized today, show them -- look, do you see?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He does have bad hair.

MOOS (on camera): Al or...

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He wears it well.

MOOS (voice-over): And when it comes to ratings, maybe it's good to have bad hair as a punch line.

Jeanne Moos, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LIN: And that's all the time we have for this hour. Coming up next is "THE CAPITAL GANG." Then at 8:00 Eastern on "CNN PRESENTS," "A Flyboy's Story," George Bush in World War II. At 9:00 Ross Perot joins Larry King, and at 10:00 Eastern, the Reverend Jesse Jackson will join me live to discuss Bill Cosby's comments this week. He used an eye-opening word to challenge the African-American community. But right now, Mark Shields previews what the Gang has tonight.

MARK SHIELDS, HOST, THE CAPITAL GANG: "THE CAPITAL GANG" will look at the handover in Baghdad and Saddam Hussein's' arraignment, Senator John Kerry at odds with the mayor of Boston, and the Republican implosion in Illinois. All that and much more right here next on CNN.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com