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CNN Live Saturday

Kerry, Bush Campaign Furiously In Ohio, Pennsylvania

Aired July 31, 2004 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: It is 2:00 p.m. in Cambridge, Ohio, midnight in Dhaka, Bangladesh. Good afternoon, I'm Fredricka Whitfield in Atlanta.
Ahead this hour: bouncing from Boston and back on the road, the Democratic ticket hits the campaign trail. We're live with the latest.

Also, medical mistakes are reaching an all-time high in the United States, often with deadly consequences. There maybe be relief in sight, however, but does it work? Find out.

And the fight for cameras in the cockpit reached Capitol Hill this week. We'll examine what effect it may have on your future of travel plans. Those stories and more, but first a look at the top stories.

A militant group with ties to al Qaeda says, it's responsible for yesterday's assassination attempt against Pakistan's prime minister designate. The attack, a suicide bombing happened north of Islamabad. Nine people were killed in the blast.

As he campaigns for reelection, President Bush is touting his economic policies in his weekly radio address. He says his tax cuts are a prime source after economy that's gaining strength.

Straight ahead, CNN's Kathleen Koch with a live report from the president's bus tour in Ohio.

U.S. Secretary of State Colin Powell is calling on the leaders of Bosnia Herzegovina to arrest former Bosnian Serb leaders accused of war crimes. In his visit ot Bosnia today, Powell also pressed Bosnian leaders to enact economic and political reforms.

Keeping you informed, CNN, the most trusted name in news.

We begin with the battle for some crucial votes. President Bush and Senator John Kerry are on the road this weekend in some big battleground states. And right now, both men are concentrating on two electoral heavy weights: Ohio and Pennsylvania.

The president's tour has two stops today in Ohio, Canton earlier today and Cambridge in just moments. Then it's on to a rally in Pittsburgh this evening.

CNN's Kathleen Koch is with us now on the phone from Cambridge, Ohio -- Kathleen. KATHLEEN KOCH, CNN CORRESPONDENT (via telephone): Fredricka, this is the continuation of the president's two-day push through four critical midwestern battleground states that he really has to win if he wants to secure the White House again in November.

As you said, the president is heading right now to Cambridge, Ohio. We expect him to be arriving soon. Lots of crowds along the parade route. We've seen, waving flags. Some waving pro-Bush signs, a fair number also waving John Kerry signs.

This a state that's lost a lot of manufacturing jobs. Very torn between the two parties and the two candidates.

This was a state that the president, though, did win in 2000 by some 3 percentage points over then vice president Al Gore.

Now, before the president made his first stop in the morning, he took time to throw the football around a little bit. He stopped in at' Cleveland Browns training facility. Shook some hands there with some players. And as he turned on to Canton, Ohio, he talked to supporters there about his long vision for the future, his record of success. And the president said that he understood how this state and workers in these cities have really suffered recently from job losses.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I know there's great concern bye-bye trade in eastern Ohio. Let me tell you something about trade, I believe that America and Americans can compete with anybody, any place, anywhere so long the rules are fair.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KOCH: President Bush went on in the spooech to criticize his opponent, Senator John Kerry's record in Congress. Saying he had few signature accomplishments, the president accusing Senator Kerry of running from his record. Mr. Bush also repeated his charge that Senator Kerry is a fan of big government and higher taxes.

However, at that stop in Canton, there were nearly 100 protesters that we went out, got some pictures of, talked with. They said they were angry about the jobs that this area has lost. And they say they are pushing to get a new president in, John Kerry, who they believe can do more to bring jobs to the area.

Lots of signs that we saw there saying "Where are the jobs, George," or "Outsource Bush" or "Liar." And as I said, we're about to pull into Cambridge here in a few minutes. Once the president wraps up here he heads on to Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, another critical swing state for the president making his 31st visit to the state of Pennsylvania later today, the state he lost to Al Gore in 2000 by 5 just percentage points -- Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: And Kathleen, is it merely coincidence that President Bush and John Kerry will be barely missing each other in Pennsylvania this evening? KOCH: Well, one could say it's merely coincidence. But both of these men understand how vital these states are come November. Geographically, to be precise, they will be missing each other by only about 25 miles. I can certainly attest to the fact we have not seen the Kerry/Bush motorcade go by. So, it's very interesting, they are both are here. And you'll see them a lot here in the months leading up to November trying to do all they can to woo the American heartland to get those votes.

WHITFIELD: All right, Kathleen Koch traveling with the president on his way into Cambridge. When he takes to the mic there as a large crowd is awaiting him we'll be taking that live.

Well like President Bush, Democratic nominee, John Kerry knows Ohio and Pennsylvania could help decide who wins the Oval Office in November. And today, he's concentrating on both states. Plus West Virginia.

John Kerry and his running mate John Edwards are at a rally right now in Pennsylvania. You're looking at a live picture there in Greensburg, Pennsylvania at a train station.

Senior political correspondent Candy Crowley is traveling with that campaign. And she's on the telephone with us now from Greensburg, Pennsylvania. And what was the reception like there, Candy?

CANDY CROWLEY, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT (via telephone): A good reception here. You know, part of what will a campaign does after a convention is to try to keep the train rolling, so to speak. And at this point they're keeping buses rolling, but you get the idea. It's to kind of come out of the convention. And they all believe they had a great convention.

And to take that speech and take that excitement the people saw on tv and bring it to the hot spots electorally. Certainly one of them Pennsylvania, one of them here in Greensburg.

They had great crowds here, a nice crowd the night before in Harrisburg and they always mention it. I don't know if you saw these people. So the idea is kind of create this image of motion and moving forward and taking over and unstoppable.

Basically, what we hear, Fredricka, a lot is bits and parts of what these two men, Edwards and Kerry, said at the convention, a stronger America abroad, working with allies, a stronger America at home. They are, of course, every once in awhile you get a response, a campaign response sort of melded into the speech.

Some of our viewers heard Senator Kerry said, now the president's talking about how we've turned the corner in the economy. Well, the last president that talked about turning the corner was Herbert Hoover, of course, presided over a great job loss. He went on to say we don't want to turn the corner, we want to climb the mountain, we want to get to the top. It's sort of a blend of a little bit of tit-for-tat with the Bush campaign, a little bit policy and of course the ruffles and flourishes of some of the things that one says on the campaign trail like believe again in America and we want to climb the mountain. The idea again, to keep the mojo going.

WHITFIELD: And Candy, there was a moment when John Kerry pointed off stage calling attention to, I guess, a group of people holding up signs that read something about AIDS. What was that moment about exactly?

CROWLEY: John Edwards was speaking at the time, and you could see them maybe largely, you know, people bring their signs down, their umbrellas in this, case when the speaker's talking. But it was something that caught Senator Kerry's eye, he whispered in Senator Edwards' ear as Edwards was talking saying look at these people.

Again, this is a campaign that be wants to try and be as inclusive as it can, and so they pointed to the signs of people saying more money for AIDS and that kind of thing to try to bring them into the dialogue as to having it by themselves.

WHITFIELD: Candy Crowley traveling with the Kerry/Edwards campaign. They're stopped right now in Greensburg, Pennsylvania. Thanks very much.

Well, in other news across America now, probing Lady Liberty's expenses. A Senate committee has sent the Liberty Ellis Island Foundation seeking an explanation of expenses in a written request. They including high executive salaries and $45,000 spent on a dog that chases geese.

In Montana, authorities in Pulson (ph) say 52 people are hurt, including four wih life-threatening injuries after a balcony collapsed at a casino there. The deck was 14 feet off the ground.

And Iron Mike? Well, Mike Tyson's comeback collapses in the ring during the Bankruptcy Bout as soom have been calling it. Boxer Mike Tyson was knocked out in the fourth round by Danny Williams. Last night's fight in Louisville, Kentucky was supposed to be the first in a series of comeback fights for the former heavyweight champ. Tyson's manager says the fighter tore a knee ligament in the first round.

Well, as you saw, they're back on the trail. Straight ahead, we'll examine what's behind the bounce from political conventions. And find out what effect it could have in November.

And we're keeping an eye on the president's address expected there in Cambridge, Ohio. We'll take you there when it happens.

Also, the fate of several hostages hangs in the balance in Iraq. The latest straight ahead.

And the pictures speak for themselves, but is there any relief in sight for this region hit by floods? We'll have a live report coming up. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: Well still no sign of President Bush there, but any moment now he is expected to emerge in the crowd there. In Cambridge, Ohio. And when he does, we'll be taking you to that live.

Well, let's talk a little Democrat talk now. The ratings are in, 24 million Americans watched John Kerry's acceptance speech. How will that translate into the polls for the Kerry/Edwards ticket? It's the so called convention bounce. And we'll talk to a guest about that in a moment.

But first, senior political correspondent Bill Schneider.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BILL SCHNEIDER, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST (voice-over): Question: What has been the most successful Democratic Convention in recent years? The one with the biggest bounce? Answer: 1992. Democrats marketed themselves as New Democrats, the Party of Change.

CLINTON: It's time to change America.

SCHNEIDER: What really gave the Democrats a lift was this man's decision during the convention to pull out of the race and say nice things about the Democrats.

ROSS PEROT, FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The Democratic Party has revitalized itself.

SCHNEIDER: The Democrats got more than a bounce in '92. They got a blast-off: 16 points, the mother of all bounces.

Democrats also hold the record for two of the least successful conventions. One was the Chicago catastrophe of 1968 when the only thing that got a bounce was the heads of the protesters. Voters were not impressed. Hubert Humphrey actually lost points.

The other was 1972, when the Democratic convention was so out of control, the nominee gave his acceptance speech at 2:30 in the morning. It's kind of hard to get a bounce from people who are asleep.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WHITFIELD: Well let's talk bounce with Perry Bacon in Washington. He's a correspondent for "TIME" magazine. Perry, good to see you.

PERRY BACON, "TIME": Good to be here.

WHTIFIELD: All right. So now the Kerry/Edwards camp. They're on the road crisscrossing the country. What kind of motivation are they get from the DNC?

BACON: They're getting lots of financial support from the DNC, obviously from the party, from the convention, from the party committee I mean. From the convention itself, I haven't seen enough polls to say what the bounce will be exactly yet. I suspect they'll be in the five-point range or so. We won't see a 16-point increase like Clinton in '92 for two reasons.

The first one is there hasn't been another event like Rose Perot dropping out that will help. And the second thing is conventions traditionally help the candidate -- the nominee in part, because he helps consolidate his base. The Democrats decide they're going to support Clinton for sure like in '92.

But for Kerry right now, the Democrats are already pretty strongly supporting him from before. Most of them are very opposed to Bush. I suspect his bounce won't be too large, four or five points, something in that range.

WHITFIELD: And in fact, I've seen some unconfirmed poll numbers showing about a five-point bounce, which really doesn't mean a whole lot because it really still means they're neck and neck. It hasn't changed the outcome even prior to the convention.

So given that, it seems to all be riding on these undecided voters. Do you see these undecided voters are willing to make up their mind after the Republican Convention and that's what many might be waiting for?

BACON: I don't know that that will be it, either. Kerry sort of told you what you knew about him already and told you more about himself, introduced himself to the voters a little bit. But I don't think that undecided voters learned a whole lot new.

They knew Kerry was opposed to how Bush lead the country. And learned a little bit more about his biography. But I think Bush will similarly remind them that he's led the country through 9/11, things they already knew.

I think it will be a key point will be the debates where undecided voters will get to see the two match-up against each other. The debates start in late September. I think those will be key moments where undecided voters can say does Kerry have enough of a different vision from Bush to where I want to pick him over Bush.

I mean we've had these -- the last four months, all kinds of ads. Ohio voters see all these ads from different candidates, but they still manage to stay undecided to some extent. I think people are going to decide late in this process.

WHITFIELD: Well, Perry, let's look at some of the bounce numbers from elections past. Gore got the bigger bounce over Bush during the last election. Dole overbounced Clinton quite hansomely in '96, but Clinton did quite well over the first Bush in '92. So, looking at these numbers and knowing the outcome of those three races does, this relaly mean the bounces don't mean a whole lot.

BACON: Yes I think so. I the bounces cancel each other out because, of the fact that Kerry gets a bounce right now this month. Bush gets a bounce a month from now. So, I think that those tend to balance each other out. And you get to the point where debates are important, how the organizing on the ground is going for each candidate.

I tend to think the convention sort of isn't too, too important, although I think that Kerry it help fill out his biography.

Voters are raising two questions about him. One, they didn't really know who he was and I think his daughters and Max Cleland talking about him a lot, really showed who he was and he was a real person, somebody said.

And number two, voters had said they heard a lot about what Kerry wasn't for, but not a lot about what he was for. He was opposed to Bush, but he really said what he was for this time.

WHITFIELD: All right. Perry Bacon of "TIME" magazine, thanks so much for joining us.

Well, let's move on now to Cambridge, Ohio where the president is speaking.

(INTERRUPTED BY LIVE EVENT)

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com


Aired July 31, 2004 - 14:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: It is 2:00 p.m. in Cambridge, Ohio, midnight in Dhaka, Bangladesh. Good afternoon, I'm Fredricka Whitfield in Atlanta.
Ahead this hour: bouncing from Boston and back on the road, the Democratic ticket hits the campaign trail. We're live with the latest.

Also, medical mistakes are reaching an all-time high in the United States, often with deadly consequences. There maybe be relief in sight, however, but does it work? Find out.

And the fight for cameras in the cockpit reached Capitol Hill this week. We'll examine what effect it may have on your future of travel plans. Those stories and more, but first a look at the top stories.

A militant group with ties to al Qaeda says, it's responsible for yesterday's assassination attempt against Pakistan's prime minister designate. The attack, a suicide bombing happened north of Islamabad. Nine people were killed in the blast.

As he campaigns for reelection, President Bush is touting his economic policies in his weekly radio address. He says his tax cuts are a prime source after economy that's gaining strength.

Straight ahead, CNN's Kathleen Koch with a live report from the president's bus tour in Ohio.

U.S. Secretary of State Colin Powell is calling on the leaders of Bosnia Herzegovina to arrest former Bosnian Serb leaders accused of war crimes. In his visit ot Bosnia today, Powell also pressed Bosnian leaders to enact economic and political reforms.

Keeping you informed, CNN, the most trusted name in news.

We begin with the battle for some crucial votes. President Bush and Senator John Kerry are on the road this weekend in some big battleground states. And right now, both men are concentrating on two electoral heavy weights: Ohio and Pennsylvania.

The president's tour has two stops today in Ohio, Canton earlier today and Cambridge in just moments. Then it's on to a rally in Pittsburgh this evening.

CNN's Kathleen Koch is with us now on the phone from Cambridge, Ohio -- Kathleen. KATHLEEN KOCH, CNN CORRESPONDENT (via telephone): Fredricka, this is the continuation of the president's two-day push through four critical midwestern battleground states that he really has to win if he wants to secure the White House again in November.

As you said, the president is heading right now to Cambridge, Ohio. We expect him to be arriving soon. Lots of crowds along the parade route. We've seen, waving flags. Some waving pro-Bush signs, a fair number also waving John Kerry signs.

This a state that's lost a lot of manufacturing jobs. Very torn between the two parties and the two candidates.

This was a state that the president, though, did win in 2000 by some 3 percentage points over then vice president Al Gore.

Now, before the president made his first stop in the morning, he took time to throw the football around a little bit. He stopped in at' Cleveland Browns training facility. Shook some hands there with some players. And as he turned on to Canton, Ohio, he talked to supporters there about his long vision for the future, his record of success. And the president said that he understood how this state and workers in these cities have really suffered recently from job losses.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I know there's great concern bye-bye trade in eastern Ohio. Let me tell you something about trade, I believe that America and Americans can compete with anybody, any place, anywhere so long the rules are fair.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KOCH: President Bush went on in the spooech to criticize his opponent, Senator John Kerry's record in Congress. Saying he had few signature accomplishments, the president accusing Senator Kerry of running from his record. Mr. Bush also repeated his charge that Senator Kerry is a fan of big government and higher taxes.

However, at that stop in Canton, there were nearly 100 protesters that we went out, got some pictures of, talked with. They said they were angry about the jobs that this area has lost. And they say they are pushing to get a new president in, John Kerry, who they believe can do more to bring jobs to the area.

Lots of signs that we saw there saying "Where are the jobs, George," or "Outsource Bush" or "Liar." And as I said, we're about to pull into Cambridge here in a few minutes. Once the president wraps up here he heads on to Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, another critical swing state for the president making his 31st visit to the state of Pennsylvania later today, the state he lost to Al Gore in 2000 by 5 just percentage points -- Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: And Kathleen, is it merely coincidence that President Bush and John Kerry will be barely missing each other in Pennsylvania this evening? KOCH: Well, one could say it's merely coincidence. But both of these men understand how vital these states are come November. Geographically, to be precise, they will be missing each other by only about 25 miles. I can certainly attest to the fact we have not seen the Kerry/Bush motorcade go by. So, it's very interesting, they are both are here. And you'll see them a lot here in the months leading up to November trying to do all they can to woo the American heartland to get those votes.

WHITFIELD: All right, Kathleen Koch traveling with the president on his way into Cambridge. When he takes to the mic there as a large crowd is awaiting him we'll be taking that live.

Well like President Bush, Democratic nominee, John Kerry knows Ohio and Pennsylvania could help decide who wins the Oval Office in November. And today, he's concentrating on both states. Plus West Virginia.

John Kerry and his running mate John Edwards are at a rally right now in Pennsylvania. You're looking at a live picture there in Greensburg, Pennsylvania at a train station.

Senior political correspondent Candy Crowley is traveling with that campaign. And she's on the telephone with us now from Greensburg, Pennsylvania. And what was the reception like there, Candy?

CANDY CROWLEY, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT (via telephone): A good reception here. You know, part of what will a campaign does after a convention is to try to keep the train rolling, so to speak. And at this point they're keeping buses rolling, but you get the idea. It's to kind of come out of the convention. And they all believe they had a great convention.

And to take that speech and take that excitement the people saw on tv and bring it to the hot spots electorally. Certainly one of them Pennsylvania, one of them here in Greensburg.

They had great crowds here, a nice crowd the night before in Harrisburg and they always mention it. I don't know if you saw these people. So the idea is kind of create this image of motion and moving forward and taking over and unstoppable.

Basically, what we hear, Fredricka, a lot is bits and parts of what these two men, Edwards and Kerry, said at the convention, a stronger America abroad, working with allies, a stronger America at home. They are, of course, every once in awhile you get a response, a campaign response sort of melded into the speech.

Some of our viewers heard Senator Kerry said, now the president's talking about how we've turned the corner in the economy. Well, the last president that talked about turning the corner was Herbert Hoover, of course, presided over a great job loss. He went on to say we don't want to turn the corner, we want to climb the mountain, we want to get to the top. It's sort of a blend of a little bit of tit-for-tat with the Bush campaign, a little bit policy and of course the ruffles and flourishes of some of the things that one says on the campaign trail like believe again in America and we want to climb the mountain. The idea again, to keep the mojo going.

WHITFIELD: And Candy, there was a moment when John Kerry pointed off stage calling attention to, I guess, a group of people holding up signs that read something about AIDS. What was that moment about exactly?

CROWLEY: John Edwards was speaking at the time, and you could see them maybe largely, you know, people bring their signs down, their umbrellas in this, case when the speaker's talking. But it was something that caught Senator Kerry's eye, he whispered in Senator Edwards' ear as Edwards was talking saying look at these people.

Again, this is a campaign that be wants to try and be as inclusive as it can, and so they pointed to the signs of people saying more money for AIDS and that kind of thing to try to bring them into the dialogue as to having it by themselves.

WHITFIELD: Candy Crowley traveling with the Kerry/Edwards campaign. They're stopped right now in Greensburg, Pennsylvania. Thanks very much.

Well, in other news across America now, probing Lady Liberty's expenses. A Senate committee has sent the Liberty Ellis Island Foundation seeking an explanation of expenses in a written request. They including high executive salaries and $45,000 spent on a dog that chases geese.

In Montana, authorities in Pulson (ph) say 52 people are hurt, including four wih life-threatening injuries after a balcony collapsed at a casino there. The deck was 14 feet off the ground.

And Iron Mike? Well, Mike Tyson's comeback collapses in the ring during the Bankruptcy Bout as soom have been calling it. Boxer Mike Tyson was knocked out in the fourth round by Danny Williams. Last night's fight in Louisville, Kentucky was supposed to be the first in a series of comeback fights for the former heavyweight champ. Tyson's manager says the fighter tore a knee ligament in the first round.

Well, as you saw, they're back on the trail. Straight ahead, we'll examine what's behind the bounce from political conventions. And find out what effect it could have in November.

And we're keeping an eye on the president's address expected there in Cambridge, Ohio. We'll take you there when it happens.

Also, the fate of several hostages hangs in the balance in Iraq. The latest straight ahead.

And the pictures speak for themselves, but is there any relief in sight for this region hit by floods? We'll have a live report coming up. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: Well still no sign of President Bush there, but any moment now he is expected to emerge in the crowd there. In Cambridge, Ohio. And when he does, we'll be taking you to that live.

Well, let's talk a little Democrat talk now. The ratings are in, 24 million Americans watched John Kerry's acceptance speech. How will that translate into the polls for the Kerry/Edwards ticket? It's the so called convention bounce. And we'll talk to a guest about that in a moment.

But first, senior political correspondent Bill Schneider.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BILL SCHNEIDER, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST (voice-over): Question: What has been the most successful Democratic Convention in recent years? The one with the biggest bounce? Answer: 1992. Democrats marketed themselves as New Democrats, the Party of Change.

CLINTON: It's time to change America.

SCHNEIDER: What really gave the Democrats a lift was this man's decision during the convention to pull out of the race and say nice things about the Democrats.

ROSS PEROT, FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The Democratic Party has revitalized itself.

SCHNEIDER: The Democrats got more than a bounce in '92. They got a blast-off: 16 points, the mother of all bounces.

Democrats also hold the record for two of the least successful conventions. One was the Chicago catastrophe of 1968 when the only thing that got a bounce was the heads of the protesters. Voters were not impressed. Hubert Humphrey actually lost points.

The other was 1972, when the Democratic convention was so out of control, the nominee gave his acceptance speech at 2:30 in the morning. It's kind of hard to get a bounce from people who are asleep.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WHITFIELD: Well let's talk bounce with Perry Bacon in Washington. He's a correspondent for "TIME" magazine. Perry, good to see you.

PERRY BACON, "TIME": Good to be here.

WHTIFIELD: All right. So now the Kerry/Edwards camp. They're on the road crisscrossing the country. What kind of motivation are they get from the DNC?

BACON: They're getting lots of financial support from the DNC, obviously from the party, from the convention, from the party committee I mean. From the convention itself, I haven't seen enough polls to say what the bounce will be exactly yet. I suspect they'll be in the five-point range or so. We won't see a 16-point increase like Clinton in '92 for two reasons.

The first one is there hasn't been another event like Rose Perot dropping out that will help. And the second thing is conventions traditionally help the candidate -- the nominee in part, because he helps consolidate his base. The Democrats decide they're going to support Clinton for sure like in '92.

But for Kerry right now, the Democrats are already pretty strongly supporting him from before. Most of them are very opposed to Bush. I suspect his bounce won't be too large, four or five points, something in that range.

WHITFIELD: And in fact, I've seen some unconfirmed poll numbers showing about a five-point bounce, which really doesn't mean a whole lot because it really still means they're neck and neck. It hasn't changed the outcome even prior to the convention.

So given that, it seems to all be riding on these undecided voters. Do you see these undecided voters are willing to make up their mind after the Republican Convention and that's what many might be waiting for?

BACON: I don't know that that will be it, either. Kerry sort of told you what you knew about him already and told you more about himself, introduced himself to the voters a little bit. But I don't think that undecided voters learned a whole lot new.

They knew Kerry was opposed to how Bush lead the country. And learned a little bit more about his biography. But I think Bush will similarly remind them that he's led the country through 9/11, things they already knew.

I think it will be a key point will be the debates where undecided voters will get to see the two match-up against each other. The debates start in late September. I think those will be key moments where undecided voters can say does Kerry have enough of a different vision from Bush to where I want to pick him over Bush.

I mean we've had these -- the last four months, all kinds of ads. Ohio voters see all these ads from different candidates, but they still manage to stay undecided to some extent. I think people are going to decide late in this process.

WHITFIELD: Well, Perry, let's look at some of the bounce numbers from elections past. Gore got the bigger bounce over Bush during the last election. Dole overbounced Clinton quite hansomely in '96, but Clinton did quite well over the first Bush in '92. So, looking at these numbers and knowing the outcome of those three races does, this relaly mean the bounces don't mean a whole lot.

BACON: Yes I think so. I the bounces cancel each other out because, of the fact that Kerry gets a bounce right now this month. Bush gets a bounce a month from now. So, I think that those tend to balance each other out. And you get to the point where debates are important, how the organizing on the ground is going for each candidate.

I tend to think the convention sort of isn't too, too important, although I think that Kerry it help fill out his biography.

Voters are raising two questions about him. One, they didn't really know who he was and I think his daughters and Max Cleland talking about him a lot, really showed who he was and he was a real person, somebody said.

And number two, voters had said they heard a lot about what Kerry wasn't for, but not a lot about what he was for. He was opposed to Bush, but he really said what he was for this time.

WHITFIELD: All right. Perry Bacon of "TIME" magazine, thanks so much for joining us.

Well, let's move on now to Cambridge, Ohio where the president is speaking.

(INTERRUPTED BY LIVE EVENT)

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com