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CNN Live Saturday

Turkish Transport Company To Pull Out Of Iraq; Florida Man Takes Attorney Hostage, Calls For Judge's Resignation

Aired August 07, 2004 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


CAROL LIN, CNN ANCHOR: "CNN LIVE SATURDAY" is just ahead, but first a quick look at what's happening now in the news.
Turkish pullout: A Turkish transport company is pulling out of Iraq to save the life of one of its own. Their driver was kidnapped today. Turkish television reports that the kidnappers say they will kill him in 48 hours unless the company leaves the country.

Meanwhile, 10 explosions rocked central Baghdad near the heavily fortified Green Zone. About a half dozen mortar rounds landed in a military compound. No reports of casualties or serious damage.

Did al Qaeda use diamonds to finance terror? Witnesses say six top al Qaeda fugitives bought diamonds in Liberia before the 9/11 attacks. It's believed the terrorist group bought the diamonds in order to have easily converted, untraceable assets.

Keeping you informed, CNN, the most trusted name in news.

Good afternoon. I'm Carol Lin and welcome to CNN LIVE SATURDAY. What started as a regular day for one Florida attorney earlier this week ended with his release from a hostage situation. Christopher Haslet is my guest tonight. His harrowing story and what happened throughout his unbelievable day at the office ahead.

Also...

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SAMIR: What's your name? He said "I'm Saddam." Saddam what? And I really had to yell at him and stuff. He said "I'm Saddam Hussein."

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LIN: His name is Samir and he pulled Saddam Hussein from the spider hole in Iraq. His amazing story from beginning to end is also ahead.

Right now, we begin this hour with the impact of the terror watch. Security is tight in Washington, New York and northern New Jersey. Our Brian Todd has more on an arrest in Great Britain connected to the new alert.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A law enforcement source tells CNN authorities are intensely searching for clues on exactly where Esa al-Hindi went during 2000 and 2001. During that time officials believe al-Hindi, described as a senior al Qaeda operative, personally conducted surveillance of potential targets in New York and New Jersey and wrote detailed reconnaissance reports. A law enforcement source says al-Hindi and two other unidentified people took photos of the New York Stock Exchange and Citigroup facilities in New York and the Prudential headquarters in Newark, New Jersey.

TOM RIDGE, HOMELAND SECURITY DIRECTOR: The United States government is raising the threat level to Code Orange for the financial services sector in New York City...

TODD: Those surveillance reports are the reason the Homeland Security Department raised the terror threat level to high for the financial districts of New York and Washington. In fact, the entire city of Washington is on higher alert, barricades, checkpoints everywhere. Capitol Hill police are working 12-hour shifts with one day off a week. There are 14 checkpoints just on Capitol Hill and every vehicle is being stopped.

DAVE WALKER, CAPITOL HILL INTERN: There's stuff you got to do. And I mean it's a pain for everybody, but even if it stops one single attack, it's definitely worth it.

TODD: But there is tension at high levels. City officials have been irate all week, charging the federal government didn't consult them about some high profile security moves and railing about the economic impact.

ELEANOR HOLMES NORTON (D), D.C. DELEGATE: If you do those checkpoints long enough, you will bring down the economy of the District of Columbia. This is a tourist town. What we're doing is sending signals, hey don't come here, you can't even get around. Besides it must be dangerous or they wouldn't be doing that. No such thing. They're doing it to cover their rear end.

TODD: Capitol Hill police had no comment on Norton's assertion. D.C. Police Chief Charles Ramsey has voiced concern about some of the moves by federal officials, but he says the increased level of alert and its results so far have to be seen as positive.

CHIEF CHARLES RAMSEY, D.C. METROPOLITAN POLICE: But you also have to bear in mind that the whole object of an orange alert or higher, the whole object of our putting in extra security measures is to keep something from happening. So it's good news when nothing blows up not bad news.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

TODD: But Chief Ramsey and Homeland Security officials make it clear this high level of alert may well extend past the November election, possibly even longer -- Carol.

LIN: All right. Thanks very much, Brian. Brian Todd reporting in. We'll be looking at more of his report in our prime-time show at 10.

In the meantime, barriers and checkpoints are being set up around the nation's capital. But the mayor says the symbols of freedom cannot be allowed to be transformed into a fortress of fear. CNN's Mike Brooks worked with the police and the FBI up in Washington. He joins me now.

Mike, how do you address the criticism of giving into the terrorists because we are building fortresses up in Washington, showing our fear right on our sleeves?

MIKE BROOKS, LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, most of the checkpoints, Carol, are right on Capitol Hill. U.S. Capitol Police Chief Terry Gainer has put these up, 14 checkpoints up. And in D.C., you don't really see that many outside of Capitol Hill. We looked right after the terror alert. You saw the World Bank and International Monetary Fund. They had a vehicle checkpoint a block away from the two buildings that are basically across the street from each other on 19th Street. And then they weren't going to do anything. But then the chief came out and decided to shut down a small part of a 8th Street, which is right in front of the World Bank.

Now, they shut that down. They put up (UNINTELLIGIBLE) parking signs around the two buildings for obvious reasons, to make sure no one could bring a car or truck bomb, leave it and have it detonate. But if you looked at D.C. compared to New York, it was apples and oranges. In New York City, we see the Hercules teams with their body armor, automatic weapons and helmets out in front of Citicorp Bank, other buildings, the American Stock Exchange, the American -- the New York Stock Exchange. And in D.C., you didn't see hardly any uniformed presence whatsoever.

I asked Chief Ramsey what the difference was between D.C. and New York. He said, well that's -- New York felt that they had to do it that way. D.C., they didn't feel they had to do it that way. He says there's a lot of things you don't see. There are undercover officers in and around the areas that they are -- of concern, IMF and World Bank. And there's also a fairly sophisticated surveillance camera system that has been used for the major demonstrations they have there every year at the World Bank and IMF and they were using that to keep an eye on thing around the buildings. But he said they don't need that in D.C. New York is a different story. They can do what they want to do, but you're not going to see that in D.C.

LIN: Mike, do you think this is going to be of sort of a permanent state of emergency when it comes to these barriers, the checkpoints, the police response?

BROOKS: Oh, I think it will be. You know we looked -- years ago, with the White House -- for years, the U.S. Secret Service wanted to cut traffic off in front of Pennsylvania Avenue. And then after 9/11, they decided to go ahead and put up more barriers. And now we see a whole -- there's a large amount of construction around the White House. I think you're going to see this at other government buildings.

New York City has been at an orange alert, if you will, since 9/11.

LIN: Yes.

BROOKS: D.C. has been on modified alert since 9/11. But I think you're going to see this into November and maybe even past November. Again, you know, I think the main watch word, as you and I discussed earlier, is vigilance.

LIN: Wouldn't you say, though, that frankly, what law enforcement is saying is that an act of terrorism on U.S. soil again is inevitable and that if you make these hard targets even harder that it just diverts the terrorists to softer targets like hotels, and schools, and shopping centers?

BROOKS: It could. And that's why everyone has to remain vigilant. And some people may ask well, what is vigilance.

LIN: Yes.

BROOKS: Vigilance is if you see something out of the way that's not normally there, pick up the phone and call police. It's basically a security mind-set, just being aware of your surroundings whether you're at the vacation -- you're at the beach on vacation, you're at the mall, you're at school, you're at your place of business. If you see something out of the way, call police, call 911. They don't mind coming out. That's why New York City and Washington, D.C. has two of the best bomb squads in the world. If there's a suspicious package or something you think is suspicious, gives you that gut feeling, pick up the phone and call them. They don't mind it at all.

LIN: Thanks, Mike.

BROOKS: Sure.

LIN: Mike Brooks.

Moving onto Iraq, the worst fighting in Iraq in months is not over yet. There was sporadic combat today around the southern city of Najaf. And that's where U.S. and Iraqi forces say they killed as many as 300 militia fighters Thursday and Friday. The U.S. military calls the fighter's forces of Shiite cleric Muqtada al Sadr. But Iraq's interim prime minister denies the fighters in Najaf were in Sadr's Army.

Now, in a news conference today, Iyad Allawi invited Sadr to take part in upcoming elections and he also offered amnesty to people accused of minor crimes across Iraq.

Also, the Iraqi government called Al Jazerra television a mouthpiece for terrorists and shut down their Baghdad office for a month. Al Jazerra calls the shutdown disappointing, unwarranted and unjustifiable.

In the meantime, members of the military police unit connected with the Abu Ghraib Prison scandal say they fear it will overshadow the good that they did in Iraq. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STAFF SGT. JOHN TAMUSCHY, U.S. ARMY: Our unit has a rich history. One little thing is not going to damper us. I mean why would you let one thing of a select group damper you? I mean we've been around for a long time and I'm sure -- I hope we're going to be around for a longer time.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LIN: Members of the 377th Military Police Company returned to Fort Lee near Petersburg, Virginia Monday. Some of them met reporters today. The MPs stressed their accomplishments, training Iraqi police and helping rebuild courts and schools.

The defense for Private Lynndie England, one of the seven members of that reserve unit charged in the prison scandal, wants the vice president to testify. Dick Cheney's name is just one on a list that is so long it took two hours to read it in court today.

President Bush is taking a break from campaigning this weekend to catch up with his family and see his nephew get married. CNN's Jill Dougherty is traveling with the president.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JILL DOUGHERTY, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Off the campaign trail for the weekend, President Bush headed back to the family's summer house in Kennebunkport, Maine, for the wedding of his nephew, George P. Bush, 28-year-old son of Florida Governor Jeb Bush. President Bush's daughter Jenna was the one who caught a 38-inch striped bass, according to her father. But in this already intense political campaign, a president can hardly afford to hang up a "gone fishin'" sign.

In his Saturday radio address, Mr. Bush once again focused on terrorism.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The elevation of the threat level in New York, New Jersey and Washington, D.C. is a grim reminder of the dangers we continue to face.

DOUGHERTY: But a new "Time" magazine poll shows voters are more concerned about the economy. Twenty-seven percent saying that is the most important issue in this election. Eighteen percent naming the war on terrorism. And a new government report showing job creation hit the brakes in July has the president on the defensive.

BUSH: We're in a changing economy and we've got more to do. I'm not going to be satisfied until everybody who wants to work can find a job.

DOUGHERTY: But as one expert sees it, the economy can be a double-edged sword for both presidential candidates.

RAJEEV DHAWAN, ECONOMIST: The two biggest problems that I see for this weakness in the economy, relative weakness, compared to what it was in the spring, is the high oil prices and the election jitters. And both the parties can do nothing much -- not much about it.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

DOUGHERTY: In previous races, sitting presidents would often use a rose garden strategy, trying to muster the power and prestige of the Oval Office. But this is a very different campaign. The two candidates are already out on the road. And President Bush next week on Tuesday sets off for a seven-state swing -- Carol.

LIN: Jill, in a completely different story, the OSCE, which is usually the organization that monitors international elections, like down in Central America and other places, is going to be monitoring the U.S. election. What do you know about this?

DOUGHERTY: Well, they are. Actually, it's at the invitation of the State Department, so it is official. And it's turned into a little bit of a political thing. You know, they have done this before, actually, back in 2003 they did the gubernatorial election in California. But with the sensitivities, you'd have to say, about what happened in Florida four years ago, the Democrats, 13 of them, asked Kofi Annan, the secretary-general of the United Nations whether they could send the monitors and they will. Democrats seem to think it's a good idea, but some Republicans aren't that convinced.

LIN: All right. Thanks very much. Jill Dougherty reporting live in Kennebunkport where it looks like, Jill, it's going to be a beautiful sunset behind you.

A programming note to pass along to you. Our Larry King will have an exclusive interview with President Bush and First Lady Laura Bush on Thursday. It's expected to be a very special hour of live candid talk. The show starts Thursday at 9:00 p.m. Eastern.

In the meantime, John Kerry and John Edwards joked that their train trip across the country is now taking them into enemy territory. CNN's Dana Bash is on the campaign trail with the Democrats.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DANA BASH, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): After two days in the battleground of Missouri, the Democratic candidates took their 26-car train overnight across the state of Kansas, a place so heavily Republican, aides admit there wasn't much point in being there during daylight.

It came out on the other end in another traditionally Republican state, Colorado. But one the Kerry campaign thinks they have a shot at.

After a quick stop to shower, back on board to roll through southeast Colorado. An area the president took 2-1 in 2000.

(on camera): Lyndon Johnson won Colorado in 1964, but no Democrat has won since except Bill Clinton in 1992 and that's only because Ross Perot was on the ticket and he took a quarter of the vote.

(voice-over): But polls show Senator Kerry close behind the president now. Local Democrats thing the senator can gain ground because of the high percentage of veterans they hope will connect with him and people angry over massive job losses. That was all part of what the candidates talked about with a handful of Coloradans invited on the train and made for the cameras discussion. And after Friday's anemic report, Kerry tried to keep the jobs talk alive at his next stop.

JOHN KERRY (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We value jobs that actually pay you more than the job that you lost that went overseas.

BASH: That's what this side wants to talk about. The Bush campaign is pushing the president's Friday challenge for a yes or no answer on whether Kerry would have supported the war knowing what he knows now.

The senator declined to take reporters' questions on the subject. A senior adviser said for him he doesn't regret his vote for war. He's glad Saddam Hussein is gone. But the way the president took the country to war was wrong and the senator relishes that debate.

Dana Bash, CNN, Nahunta, Colorado.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LIN: Still to come on CNN LIVE SATURDAY, living under the horrendous reign of Saddam Hussein.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SAMIR: I want to help. I speak the language. I can do something.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LIN: He says Saddam killed members of his family. How he got his revenge when he met the former dictator face-to-face.

Plus, six people found dead in one house and no motive known. We're going to take you live to the crime scene.

And, held at gunpoint for hours, how this judge's resignation or rather a fake resignation may have saved one man's life.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LIN: Authorities aren't calling them suspects but say they are questioning two people who may know something about the gruesome killings of six people in Deltona, Florida, That's 30 miles north of Orlando. It's a crime scene the sheriff describes as the worst thing they've ever seen. Eric Von Ancken from our affiliate WKMG joins us live now with the latest.

Eric, does this appear to be at least a break in the case? ERIC VON ANCKEN, WKMG CORRESPONDENT: Carol, it's really too soon to say at this point. Deputies will only tell us that this was not a random act. As we speak, they are interviewing those two persons of interest. They have also identified two of the victims, but that still leaves four more.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

VON ANCKEN (voice-over): For the first time, deputies allow our cameras up to the front of this Deltona home, showing exactly why the investigation cannot be rushed.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Processing the scene is very tedious, very slow, very methodical.

VON ANCKEN: Nine crime scene technicians from FDLE and the Volusia County Sheriff's Office, must suit up every time they go into the blood spattered home so they don't contaminate the evidence. Evidence they hope that will eventually lead to a suspect.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have some of the best professionals in the country working on it and that may be where your case is built, on one piece of trace evidence.

VON ANCKEN: Friday night, the medical examiner removed the bodies of all six victims, four men and two women, one of them now identified as Michelle Nathan of Deltona. Deputies say they were all friends renting this house. The murder massacre has left them barely recognizable.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is a senseless crime for a senseless reason.

VON ANCKEN: A co-worker at this Burger King sent someone to check on the group when they didn't show up for work Friday morning. And since then neighbors have been telling deputies what they saw and what they heard.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I heard tires squealing.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I saw a suspicious vehicle about 100 feet diagonal from the house. It was like a late '80s model pickup of some sort.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We'll move as fast as we can without doing it by mistakes.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VON ANCKEN: And investigators tell us that there was so much trauma to all of the victims, they must now use fingerprints and dental records to identify them -- Carol.

LIN: All right. Thanks very much, Eric Von Ancken for reporting in live. Elsewhere across America, federal authorities now say only two people were killed today when two private planes collided over Kinnelon, New Jersey. Five fatalities were reported earlier. There were no injuries on the ground.

And Los Angeles police are investigating a break-in at Paris Hilton's rented home in the Hollywood Hills. The reality TV star says burglars cleaned her out of cash and jewelry.

Surveillance video from a convenience store robbery last month in Phoenix, Arizona, hasn't yet yielded a suspect, but it does offer an astonishing glimpse of public apathy. Throughout the holdup, two customers casually browse in the store. A third waited patiently in line to make his purchase as the hooded armed robber plundered the cash registers. An employee courteously held the door for the perp. No one called for help. What's up with that?

A normal day at the office turned out to be one lawyer's worst nightmare.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRISTOPHER HAZELIP, HOSTAGE: I have a gun, I have a bomb, and you're going to do exactly what I say.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LIN: Still to come, I'm going to be talking to the Florida attorney who was able to escape an unexpected guest.

And coming up later, Samir's story. Meet the man who plucked Saddam Hussein from his spider hole.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LIN: Hostage negotiators have one of the toughest assignments in law enforcement. Their most important rule is the same as that of doctors, first, do no harm. For negotiators in Jacksonville, Florida, this week, that meant using a surprising tactic. Mike Brooks explains.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BROOKS (voice-over): It all began with 36-year-old John Knight walked into the office of attorney Christopher Hazelip in Jacksonville, Florida.

HAZELIP: I have a gun, I have a bomb, and you're going to do exactly what I say.

BROOKS: Knight then called Jacksonville mayor John Peyton and said he was holding an attorney hostage at a downtown office building. Peyton was able to contact the Jacksonville Sheriff's Office and offices evacuated the building while Peyton talked with the man for nearly an hour. One of Knight's demands was the resignation of Duval County judge, Sharon Tanner who he had appeared in front of in 1999 for a charge of domestic battery. Prior to the standoff, Knight had given television stations a DVD in which he rambled on spelling out his complaints against Judge Tanner.

JOHN KNIGHT, ACCUSED HOSTAGE TAKER: I had a woman judge discriminate against me for no better reason than I'm a man.

BROOKS: Judge Tanner then made this statement in front of news cameras.

JUDGE SHARON TANNER, DUVAL COUNTY, FLORIDA: I wish to announce that effective immediately, I do hereby resign my position as county judge, Duvall County, in the state of Florida of the 4th Judicial Circuit. As I said, this resignation is effective immediately.

BROOKS: After he heard the judge's statement on live TV, Knight surrendered to police. He was charged with kidnapping, aggravated assault, carrying a concealed firearm, making a bomb hoax and falsely impersonating an officer. On Thursday, Knight made his initial court appearance and was held without bond. But was the bogus resignation the right way to end the standoff?

MAYOR JOHN PEYTON, JACKSONVILLE, FLORIDA: I think that the judge took it upon herself to do something she thought was in the best interest of the hostage and the safety of people in this building, which is -- certainly, I concur with.

BROOKS: Most negotiation tactics for dealing with a hostage situation are not written in stone. This incident turned out with no one killed or injured. But I've spoken with a number of veteran hostage negotiators who are concerned, however, that this could encourage others to try something similar and that this could set a bad precedent for future situations.

Mike Brooks, CNN, Atlanta.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LIN: Amazing.

Well, as Mike Brooks said, the outcome of this particular case is very positive, the hostage is free and unharmed, the suspect in custody. And joining me live from Jacksonville, Florida is the man who was held hostage by John Knight, attorney Chris Hazelip.

Chris, you weren't even supposed to be in the office. You were on vacation. You had just come back. All you wanted to do was check your e-mail.

HAZELIP: Yes, Carol. Hi, by the way. It's very good to be here. And yes, I went into the office just to try to get some things done while people didn't know I was in the office.

LIN: So John Knight arrives. He shows a phony badge to your secretary. And he manages to get into your office. What's the first thing he said to you? HAZELIP: Well, the first thing he said to me after I said, "To what do I owe an unannounced visit from the Justice Department?" He said, "I lied. I'm not from the Justice Department, but I have a 9- millimeter Beretta in this envelop and I have a bomb." And he moved his coat back and said, "I have a mercury switch." And there was a wire attached to his belt. And he said, "If you don't do exactly what I say, then I'm going to blow this place up."

LIN: You believed him?

HAZELIP: Oh, absolutely.

LIN: What was going through your mind?

HAZELIP: Well, I realized that he meant business and he said several times that he did. So the next thing I said to him was well, tell me what I can do to help you. Tell me what your problem is and maybe I can help.

LIN: And you talked about this domestic charge that he faced, that was detailed in the piece. And you could not actually tell anybody else in the building that this was going on. And at one point in this, what, 13-hour dialogue you had with this man?

HAZELIP: Oh, not 13 hours, no. It took about two hours.

LIN: Oh, two hours, OK. I have a wire report that said 13 hours.

HAZELIP: No, two hours.

LIN: All right. During this ordeal, your secretary, not knowing what was going on inside your office, actually came in to talk to you. What happened then?

HAZELIP: Well, she made a couple trips in. One was to get the package that he insisted I mail to the -- or hand deliver to the mayor. And another time she came in later after the word had gotten out, when the dialogue with the mayor began of what was going on in my office. The word had gotten out...

LIN: But she didn't know. She was trying to warn you to leave.

HAZELIP: Correct. She came in and said that we need to evacuate the building, there's somebody with a gun and a bomb that's holding somebody hostage. And of course, it was the man right in my office.

LIN: Crazy.

HAZELIP: But she had been given other information that turned out to be incorrect such as the event was taking place on the 10th floor instead of the 13th floor where my office was.

LIN: Got you. Got you. Now, do you think Judge Tanner made a personal decision to intervene in this case and go to the microphones and issue this bogus resignation? HAZELIP: Well, I know Judge Tanner personally. I respect her very much.

LIN: And she knew it was you.

HAZELIP: Yes, I assume that she did. And I appreciate very much what she did. But knowing her as I do, I think she would have done it even if it was a person that she did not know. I think her concern out of compassion was that there be no loss of human life, and if there was something that she could do to help avoid that, then she...

LIN: Right.

Oh no, did we lose the signal? We lost the signal. Chris Hazelip, thank you very much for being with us. I hope you can hear us. Your time in the spotlight has passed. Thank you very much. And we're glad that you're doing just fine. Chris Hazelip whose office is on the 13th floor.

All right, he was forced to leave his country with only $6 to his name. Coming up next, we're going to explain how coming to America helped to free his family in Iraq.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LIN: More of CNN LIVE SATURDAY in just a moment, but first a quick look at what's happening now in the news.

Tragedy in Schenectady, New York -- I've got it out -- where six people were killed today in a fast moving house fire. Five children were among the victims, including a 7-month-old baby. Two adults managed to escape the fire, but the cause is still under investigation.

Police are questioning two people about the six bodies found in a house in Deltona, Florida. The six people, four men and two women, were found after one of them failed to show up for work. Police describe the murders as very, very brutal and said the victims suffered violent trauma.

Two people are under arrest after a disturbance at an Enola Gay Exhibit in suburban Washington. About 20 people protested near the display of the aircraft that dropped the first atomic bomb and two protesters covered themselves in ash.

Army PFC Lynndie England wants the court to order high officials to testify at her preliminary hearing, including Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld. There's no indication that the court will grant the request.

Keeping you informed, CNN, the most trusted name in news.

Now Iraq is an evolving nation with -- even with the birth of its newfound democracy, there has been violence and death. But one Iraqi says the nation is better off after the collapse of Saddam Hussein's regime. CNN special contributor and former Iraqi POW Ron Young sat down with this man we call only Samir. He takes us on a journey of repression, to rebellion, to exile and finally in an amazing turn, face-to-face with Saddam Hussein.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SAMIR: I told him if you are the real man, you should have called yourself.

RON YOUNG, CNN SPECIAL CONTRIBUTOR (voice-over): Tough words for a man who grew up in a tough world.

SAMIR: I was there during an execution. I lost two cousins during Saddam's regime. Neighbors, friends, I know, they were executed by Saddam. And after they shot them dead, before even their parents, they get the body; they have to pay a fine for the bullets.

YOUNG: Samir grew up in Nasiriyah. As a teenager, he hated Saddam Hussein, wanted to rebel, but feared the consequences.

SAMIR: If you tried to overthrow Saddam, you could not make it.

YOUNG: Finally, Samir's chance came.

GEORGE H.W. BUSH, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Tonight, the battle has been joined.

SAMIR: It's in 1991, during the Gulf War. I think pretty much a lot of Iraqis thought this is the best time for Iraq to have a new president, to get rid of Saddam. We had guns, and we went to the building, the Ba'ath Party building, and places for Saddam security was the prison, torturing people inside that prison. We broke the doors and we got some prisoners out. We thought we were going to get help maybe from the United States, but it didn't happen. We were just left behind.

YOUNG (on camera): What happened to you after that?

SAMIR: I went to my family, my parents. I told them I'm not staying here because I know what's going to happen to me and they're going to kill me for sure. And I told them I'm leaving. I cannot live here anymore.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How many children did they take?

SAMIR: I went to the border between Iraq and Kuwait. There was a U.S. military between the borders and we asked for protection. And they did. They protected us and they gave us food, a tent to live, medicine, anything we need. They managed somehow with the Saudi Arabian government. And they build our refugee camp for the refugees. We were thousands. Thousands of refugees left the country. I lived there for three-and-a-half years. It's really tough. It is not easy, but you have no choice. You have no choice. Either you stay or you go back to be killed.

I have a cousin. He came here to the United States in 1992. He sent me a letter when I was in Saudi Arabia in that camp and he explained to me the life. And I was like, that's where I want to be, the United States. I just got lucky.

YOUNG (voice-over): The U.N. granted Samir refugee status and he settled in St. Louis.

SAMIR: When I came to the United States, I had no English, no speak English. I have six bucks in my pocket, $6. Now I'm driving a nice car.

YOUNG: Samir thrived in St. Louis. He learned English, became a citizen. Part of his heart, though, remained in Iraq.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: States like these and their terrorist allies constitute an axis of evil.

YOUNG: When President Bush started talking about going to war against Saddam, Samir became excited.

SAMIR: I just wanted it to happen because that's the only chance, the only chance is the United States to go to Iraq and kick Saddam out of there. I want to help. I speak the language. I can do something. I applied for the job as a translator and I got the job.

YOUNG (on camera): And you weren't nervous about this decision?

SAMIR: No. I was completely fine. 100 percent to do it. They sent us to Iraq after Baghdad fall.

YOUNG (voice-over): But Samir wasn't sent to Baghdad.

SAMIR: And I asked my boss, what city in Iraq we are? He said, "This is Nasiriyah." I was like almost having a heart attack. And I told my boss that night, I told him, I'm from here and I got kicked out of the country in 1991. I haven't seen my parents yet. They said, "We're going to take you home to see your parents tomorrow." We walked in the village, me and the American forces. Everybody crying. My dad hugged me, crying so bad, my brothers, my mom. I cried, too. It was a great moment. We came with America to free them and to see your family. That was a great moment for me. That was the best moment ever.

YOUNG: But soon there would be another moment that would change Samir's life.

SAMIR: I had to really yell at him and stuff. He said, "I'm Saddam Hussein."

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LIN: And that was from our special contributor Ron Young. Stay with us. More of Samir's story when we return.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SAMIR: He stick both hands up and I reached him. And I grabbed him. I grabbed him. I was like; I'm not going to let him go.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LIN: Samir explains the feeling he got when he pulled Saddam from out of the ground.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LIN: More now on the story of Samir, a former Iraqi refugee and later hero to many in Iraq. Samir was part of the intense manhunt to catch Saddam Hussein. In this part of his story, the translator for U.S. Special Forces recounts the night he laid eyes on Saddam hiding in a spider hole.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SAMIR: I want to show the world, I want to show all people I know that's the hole we dragged Saddam off, from that little bitty dirty hole. YOUNG (voice-over): For Samir, catching Saddam was personal. Forced to flee Iraq to the U.S., his heart still hurt for his family suffering back home. When the U.S. went back to remove Saddam Hussein, he wanted to help. He was sent back to Tikrit as a translator with the U.S. Special Forces.

SAMIR: They don't want to see you in the uniform. They don't care if you're American or you're an Iraqi. They don't care. They look at you like you are a traitor or a spy or something.

YOUNG: Samir was assigned to the tedious and frustrating search for Saddam. Sparks of hope would quickly fade. Then, the break they were looking for. Now, for the first time, someone on the mission tells what happened the night Special Forces caught Saddam Hussein.

SAMIR: On December 13th, we knew -- we have info -- Saddam is there on that farm, hidden somewhere on that farm, but we had his bodyguard. He's the one we were looking for because we knew he would lead to Saddam. I was a translator for this guy. And he started crying. He said, "Don't kill me. I'll show you where Saddam is." And we got on that farm about 8:00 p.m. on Saturday night. And the forces went inside and they searched the whole farm and there is no sign of Saddam. The guy showed us exactly where the bunker is.

YOUNG: The bodyguard showed you where the bunker was?

SAMIR: Yes. He said -- point with his finger, he said, "Dig in here." It was really hard to see. There was the bunker. It was just like covered with dirt, and what they do when Saddam go in, they take leaves from the trees and they throw them on top of it. They make it look like it's been there for a long time. We dig in there and we found a hole, a little bitty hole. It can't be -- especially when you think about looking for Saddam Hussein, the dictator, the one who has the power over his people. It just -- it doesn't crosses your mind, but he was there. He was there. He heard shots and he started yelling inside. And they said, "Samir, come talk to him, tell him to come out." And he started saying, "Don't shoot. Don't kill me. Don't shoot." They asked me to tell him -- to ask him put your hands up. We want to see your hands. I told him, "Put your hands up." And it was like one hand. I said, "Let me see your other hand." And he did this. I said, "No, both hands up."

YOUNG: And you're looking down the hole at this point?

SAMIR: Yes, I was like -- this guy is like pulling me back because they don't know what's in there. And a bomb is going to come off or something. I tried to talk to him, but this guy is Samir -- they pulled me back. I'm like -- we have helicopters, about eight of them. Anyway, he sticks both hands out, and I reached him. And I grabbed him. I grabbed him. I was like I'm not going to let him go. Everyone got a piece of Saddam. We pulled him out. And I look at him. I knew that's Saddam from his face. And I told him, this is Saddam. They didn't believe me at first. They said, "Ask him his name." And I said this is Saddam. They said, "No, ask him." And I asked him, "What's your name?" He said -- first, he said, ah. What's your name? And he said, "I'm Saddam." Saddam what? I had to really like yell at him and stuff. He said, "I'm Saddam Hussein."

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LIN: We will have more on Samir's story after a quick break. In Part III, Samir vividly paints a picture of what the capture of Saddam Hussein meant in his life and in the war on Iraq.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LIN: In the conclusion of Samir's story, he tells CNN contributor Ron Young how the capture of Saddam Hussein was the most significant moment in the war and in his life.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SAMIR: At that moment, I was like I don't know what to do. I don't know what to do. I'm like this is the guy who destroyed millions of lives. He's in my hands. I don't know. Just to kill him right away is not right. I don't know what to do really. I told him, "You call yourself a hero and a leader of the Arab nation. You are a nobody." And he called me a traitor and a spy. He make me really upset. And I had to punch him. I was so angry. I don't know. Really punch him a couple times in the face, grabbed him from his beard. They told me to stop. That's enough.

Saddam spoke two words in English when we pulled him out. When we pulled him out, he spoke a word because he thought nobody Arabic with these forces. He said "America why?" He say it three times, "America why? America why? America why." And I remember one of the forces told me to tell him, they said, "Samir, tell him the reason we're here, because President Bush sent us to find you."

YOUNG: How did he react?

SAMIR: In a small voice, he said, my shoe is better than you or your family. Any question you ask him, he's crazy. I think he's crazy. He's like the war is not over. He said, "I'm a hostage or I'm a prisoner?"

YOUNG: He had no idea. SAMIR: Yes. He said, "You didn't win the war." He said, "You didn't win the win. The war is not over." We told him that the war is over! The war is over. It's gone. You're gone. He said, "No, the war's not over."

YOUNG (voice-over): Special Forces took Saddam Hussein back to one of his palaces. He was no longer president, but a prisoner.

(on camera): Was he crying?

SAMIR: He wasn't really crying, but he was like -- felt like he's not Saddam anymore. He's not the president anymore. He felt it's gone. I remember a couple questions they asked him. I was there. They asked him about the master graves and he denied it. And he blamed the vice president -- the Iraqi vice president, al Dhouri. He said, "America" -- like this -- "Why you come and like crossing the Atlantic. You come in here" -- like the way he talk -- "You come in here to Iraq, what do you know about Baghdad?"

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ladies and gentlemen, we got him.

YOUNG (voice-over): Soon, word traveled in Nasiriyah, and later the pictures.

SAMIR: My mom, when she saw that picture, that first picture came out like with my face. She said, from his head, I could tell that was Samir. My parents they're proud of me.

YOUNG: Samir returned to St. Louis. He told only a few people what happened. He tried to tell his story to President Bush in an e- mail, but it bounced back. Then last month, friends arranged for him to meet President Bush.

SAMIR: I was like, it can't be. It can't be. I was like -- I couldn't sleep that night. I just couldn't believe it. I shook the president's hand. And I told him, "Mr. President, thank you, thank you for what you have done to the Iraq, to free the country." And it just -- that's a great moment. Again, I tell him, "Sir, this is me and Saddam." And he said he saw it. He saw that picture.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: U.S. out! Rumsfeld out!

YOUNG (on camera): What would you say to the people in this country who say that our going to war wasn't worth it, that the cost is too high?

SAMIR: I want to say like, especially the whole family, they have sons or kids that have daddy or mother serving in Iraq, I want to tell them what they do in Iraq, it's the right thing because they save a life. They're changing the Iraq. Going to Iraq, I think, is the right thing.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LIN: And that's all the time we have for this hour. I'll be back at 10:00 p.m. Eastern for a hot debate surrounding a ban on the sale of sex toys. Does the government have the right to govern what goes on in your bedroom? I'll be right back tonight at 10:00 Eastern to debate that issue.

But right now, Al Hunt is in for Mark Shields and he tells what the gang has tonight.

AL HUNT, "THE CAPITAL GANG": Thanks. We'll look at terrorism and politics, the attack on John Kerry's war record and what's happening in the Missouri battleground state, former house majority whip Tony Quello and U.S Olympic chief Peter Ueberroth join the Capital Gang. All that and more next on CNN.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com


Aired August 7, 2004 - 18:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CAROL LIN, CNN ANCHOR: "CNN LIVE SATURDAY" is just ahead, but first a quick look at what's happening now in the news.
Turkish pullout: A Turkish transport company is pulling out of Iraq to save the life of one of its own. Their driver was kidnapped today. Turkish television reports that the kidnappers say they will kill him in 48 hours unless the company leaves the country.

Meanwhile, 10 explosions rocked central Baghdad near the heavily fortified Green Zone. About a half dozen mortar rounds landed in a military compound. No reports of casualties or serious damage.

Did al Qaeda use diamonds to finance terror? Witnesses say six top al Qaeda fugitives bought diamonds in Liberia before the 9/11 attacks. It's believed the terrorist group bought the diamonds in order to have easily converted, untraceable assets.

Keeping you informed, CNN, the most trusted name in news.

Good afternoon. I'm Carol Lin and welcome to CNN LIVE SATURDAY. What started as a regular day for one Florida attorney earlier this week ended with his release from a hostage situation. Christopher Haslet is my guest tonight. His harrowing story and what happened throughout his unbelievable day at the office ahead.

Also...

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SAMIR: What's your name? He said "I'm Saddam." Saddam what? And I really had to yell at him and stuff. He said "I'm Saddam Hussein."

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LIN: His name is Samir and he pulled Saddam Hussein from the spider hole in Iraq. His amazing story from beginning to end is also ahead.

Right now, we begin this hour with the impact of the terror watch. Security is tight in Washington, New York and northern New Jersey. Our Brian Todd has more on an arrest in Great Britain connected to the new alert.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A law enforcement source tells CNN authorities are intensely searching for clues on exactly where Esa al-Hindi went during 2000 and 2001. During that time officials believe al-Hindi, described as a senior al Qaeda operative, personally conducted surveillance of potential targets in New York and New Jersey and wrote detailed reconnaissance reports. A law enforcement source says al-Hindi and two other unidentified people took photos of the New York Stock Exchange and Citigroup facilities in New York and the Prudential headquarters in Newark, New Jersey.

TOM RIDGE, HOMELAND SECURITY DIRECTOR: The United States government is raising the threat level to Code Orange for the financial services sector in New York City...

TODD: Those surveillance reports are the reason the Homeland Security Department raised the terror threat level to high for the financial districts of New York and Washington. In fact, the entire city of Washington is on higher alert, barricades, checkpoints everywhere. Capitol Hill police are working 12-hour shifts with one day off a week. There are 14 checkpoints just on Capitol Hill and every vehicle is being stopped.

DAVE WALKER, CAPITOL HILL INTERN: There's stuff you got to do. And I mean it's a pain for everybody, but even if it stops one single attack, it's definitely worth it.

TODD: But there is tension at high levels. City officials have been irate all week, charging the federal government didn't consult them about some high profile security moves and railing about the economic impact.

ELEANOR HOLMES NORTON (D), D.C. DELEGATE: If you do those checkpoints long enough, you will bring down the economy of the District of Columbia. This is a tourist town. What we're doing is sending signals, hey don't come here, you can't even get around. Besides it must be dangerous or they wouldn't be doing that. No such thing. They're doing it to cover their rear end.

TODD: Capitol Hill police had no comment on Norton's assertion. D.C. Police Chief Charles Ramsey has voiced concern about some of the moves by federal officials, but he says the increased level of alert and its results so far have to be seen as positive.

CHIEF CHARLES RAMSEY, D.C. METROPOLITAN POLICE: But you also have to bear in mind that the whole object of an orange alert or higher, the whole object of our putting in extra security measures is to keep something from happening. So it's good news when nothing blows up not bad news.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

TODD: But Chief Ramsey and Homeland Security officials make it clear this high level of alert may well extend past the November election, possibly even longer -- Carol.

LIN: All right. Thanks very much, Brian. Brian Todd reporting in. We'll be looking at more of his report in our prime-time show at 10.

In the meantime, barriers and checkpoints are being set up around the nation's capital. But the mayor says the symbols of freedom cannot be allowed to be transformed into a fortress of fear. CNN's Mike Brooks worked with the police and the FBI up in Washington. He joins me now.

Mike, how do you address the criticism of giving into the terrorists because we are building fortresses up in Washington, showing our fear right on our sleeves?

MIKE BROOKS, LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, most of the checkpoints, Carol, are right on Capitol Hill. U.S. Capitol Police Chief Terry Gainer has put these up, 14 checkpoints up. And in D.C., you don't really see that many outside of Capitol Hill. We looked right after the terror alert. You saw the World Bank and International Monetary Fund. They had a vehicle checkpoint a block away from the two buildings that are basically across the street from each other on 19th Street. And then they weren't going to do anything. But then the chief came out and decided to shut down a small part of a 8th Street, which is right in front of the World Bank.

Now, they shut that down. They put up (UNINTELLIGIBLE) parking signs around the two buildings for obvious reasons, to make sure no one could bring a car or truck bomb, leave it and have it detonate. But if you looked at D.C. compared to New York, it was apples and oranges. In New York City, we see the Hercules teams with their body armor, automatic weapons and helmets out in front of Citicorp Bank, other buildings, the American Stock Exchange, the American -- the New York Stock Exchange. And in D.C., you didn't see hardly any uniformed presence whatsoever.

I asked Chief Ramsey what the difference was between D.C. and New York. He said, well that's -- New York felt that they had to do it that way. D.C., they didn't feel they had to do it that way. He says there's a lot of things you don't see. There are undercover officers in and around the areas that they are -- of concern, IMF and World Bank. And there's also a fairly sophisticated surveillance camera system that has been used for the major demonstrations they have there every year at the World Bank and IMF and they were using that to keep an eye on thing around the buildings. But he said they don't need that in D.C. New York is a different story. They can do what they want to do, but you're not going to see that in D.C.

LIN: Mike, do you think this is going to be of sort of a permanent state of emergency when it comes to these barriers, the checkpoints, the police response?

BROOKS: Oh, I think it will be. You know we looked -- years ago, with the White House -- for years, the U.S. Secret Service wanted to cut traffic off in front of Pennsylvania Avenue. And then after 9/11, they decided to go ahead and put up more barriers. And now we see a whole -- there's a large amount of construction around the White House. I think you're going to see this at other government buildings.

New York City has been at an orange alert, if you will, since 9/11.

LIN: Yes.

BROOKS: D.C. has been on modified alert since 9/11. But I think you're going to see this into November and maybe even past November. Again, you know, I think the main watch word, as you and I discussed earlier, is vigilance.

LIN: Wouldn't you say, though, that frankly, what law enforcement is saying is that an act of terrorism on U.S. soil again is inevitable and that if you make these hard targets even harder that it just diverts the terrorists to softer targets like hotels, and schools, and shopping centers?

BROOKS: It could. And that's why everyone has to remain vigilant. And some people may ask well, what is vigilance.

LIN: Yes.

BROOKS: Vigilance is if you see something out of the way that's not normally there, pick up the phone and call police. It's basically a security mind-set, just being aware of your surroundings whether you're at the vacation -- you're at the beach on vacation, you're at the mall, you're at school, you're at your place of business. If you see something out of the way, call police, call 911. They don't mind coming out. That's why New York City and Washington, D.C. has two of the best bomb squads in the world. If there's a suspicious package or something you think is suspicious, gives you that gut feeling, pick up the phone and call them. They don't mind it at all.

LIN: Thanks, Mike.

BROOKS: Sure.

LIN: Mike Brooks.

Moving onto Iraq, the worst fighting in Iraq in months is not over yet. There was sporadic combat today around the southern city of Najaf. And that's where U.S. and Iraqi forces say they killed as many as 300 militia fighters Thursday and Friday. The U.S. military calls the fighter's forces of Shiite cleric Muqtada al Sadr. But Iraq's interim prime minister denies the fighters in Najaf were in Sadr's Army.

Now, in a news conference today, Iyad Allawi invited Sadr to take part in upcoming elections and he also offered amnesty to people accused of minor crimes across Iraq.

Also, the Iraqi government called Al Jazerra television a mouthpiece for terrorists and shut down their Baghdad office for a month. Al Jazerra calls the shutdown disappointing, unwarranted and unjustifiable.

In the meantime, members of the military police unit connected with the Abu Ghraib Prison scandal say they fear it will overshadow the good that they did in Iraq. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STAFF SGT. JOHN TAMUSCHY, U.S. ARMY: Our unit has a rich history. One little thing is not going to damper us. I mean why would you let one thing of a select group damper you? I mean we've been around for a long time and I'm sure -- I hope we're going to be around for a longer time.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LIN: Members of the 377th Military Police Company returned to Fort Lee near Petersburg, Virginia Monday. Some of them met reporters today. The MPs stressed their accomplishments, training Iraqi police and helping rebuild courts and schools.

The defense for Private Lynndie England, one of the seven members of that reserve unit charged in the prison scandal, wants the vice president to testify. Dick Cheney's name is just one on a list that is so long it took two hours to read it in court today.

President Bush is taking a break from campaigning this weekend to catch up with his family and see his nephew get married. CNN's Jill Dougherty is traveling with the president.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JILL DOUGHERTY, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Off the campaign trail for the weekend, President Bush headed back to the family's summer house in Kennebunkport, Maine, for the wedding of his nephew, George P. Bush, 28-year-old son of Florida Governor Jeb Bush. President Bush's daughter Jenna was the one who caught a 38-inch striped bass, according to her father. But in this already intense political campaign, a president can hardly afford to hang up a "gone fishin'" sign.

In his Saturday radio address, Mr. Bush once again focused on terrorism.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The elevation of the threat level in New York, New Jersey and Washington, D.C. is a grim reminder of the dangers we continue to face.

DOUGHERTY: But a new "Time" magazine poll shows voters are more concerned about the economy. Twenty-seven percent saying that is the most important issue in this election. Eighteen percent naming the war on terrorism. And a new government report showing job creation hit the brakes in July has the president on the defensive.

BUSH: We're in a changing economy and we've got more to do. I'm not going to be satisfied until everybody who wants to work can find a job.

DOUGHERTY: But as one expert sees it, the economy can be a double-edged sword for both presidential candidates.

RAJEEV DHAWAN, ECONOMIST: The two biggest problems that I see for this weakness in the economy, relative weakness, compared to what it was in the spring, is the high oil prices and the election jitters. And both the parties can do nothing much -- not much about it.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

DOUGHERTY: In previous races, sitting presidents would often use a rose garden strategy, trying to muster the power and prestige of the Oval Office. But this is a very different campaign. The two candidates are already out on the road. And President Bush next week on Tuesday sets off for a seven-state swing -- Carol.

LIN: Jill, in a completely different story, the OSCE, which is usually the organization that monitors international elections, like down in Central America and other places, is going to be monitoring the U.S. election. What do you know about this?

DOUGHERTY: Well, they are. Actually, it's at the invitation of the State Department, so it is official. And it's turned into a little bit of a political thing. You know, they have done this before, actually, back in 2003 they did the gubernatorial election in California. But with the sensitivities, you'd have to say, about what happened in Florida four years ago, the Democrats, 13 of them, asked Kofi Annan, the secretary-general of the United Nations whether they could send the monitors and they will. Democrats seem to think it's a good idea, but some Republicans aren't that convinced.

LIN: All right. Thanks very much. Jill Dougherty reporting live in Kennebunkport where it looks like, Jill, it's going to be a beautiful sunset behind you.

A programming note to pass along to you. Our Larry King will have an exclusive interview with President Bush and First Lady Laura Bush on Thursday. It's expected to be a very special hour of live candid talk. The show starts Thursday at 9:00 p.m. Eastern.

In the meantime, John Kerry and John Edwards joked that their train trip across the country is now taking them into enemy territory. CNN's Dana Bash is on the campaign trail with the Democrats.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DANA BASH, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): After two days in the battleground of Missouri, the Democratic candidates took their 26-car train overnight across the state of Kansas, a place so heavily Republican, aides admit there wasn't much point in being there during daylight.

It came out on the other end in another traditionally Republican state, Colorado. But one the Kerry campaign thinks they have a shot at.

After a quick stop to shower, back on board to roll through southeast Colorado. An area the president took 2-1 in 2000.

(on camera): Lyndon Johnson won Colorado in 1964, but no Democrat has won since except Bill Clinton in 1992 and that's only because Ross Perot was on the ticket and he took a quarter of the vote.

(voice-over): But polls show Senator Kerry close behind the president now. Local Democrats thing the senator can gain ground because of the high percentage of veterans they hope will connect with him and people angry over massive job losses. That was all part of what the candidates talked about with a handful of Coloradans invited on the train and made for the cameras discussion. And after Friday's anemic report, Kerry tried to keep the jobs talk alive at his next stop.

JOHN KERRY (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We value jobs that actually pay you more than the job that you lost that went overseas.

BASH: That's what this side wants to talk about. The Bush campaign is pushing the president's Friday challenge for a yes or no answer on whether Kerry would have supported the war knowing what he knows now.

The senator declined to take reporters' questions on the subject. A senior adviser said for him he doesn't regret his vote for war. He's glad Saddam Hussein is gone. But the way the president took the country to war was wrong and the senator relishes that debate.

Dana Bash, CNN, Nahunta, Colorado.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LIN: Still to come on CNN LIVE SATURDAY, living under the horrendous reign of Saddam Hussein.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SAMIR: I want to help. I speak the language. I can do something.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LIN: He says Saddam killed members of his family. How he got his revenge when he met the former dictator face-to-face.

Plus, six people found dead in one house and no motive known. We're going to take you live to the crime scene.

And, held at gunpoint for hours, how this judge's resignation or rather a fake resignation may have saved one man's life.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LIN: Authorities aren't calling them suspects but say they are questioning two people who may know something about the gruesome killings of six people in Deltona, Florida, That's 30 miles north of Orlando. It's a crime scene the sheriff describes as the worst thing they've ever seen. Eric Von Ancken from our affiliate WKMG joins us live now with the latest.

Eric, does this appear to be at least a break in the case? ERIC VON ANCKEN, WKMG CORRESPONDENT: Carol, it's really too soon to say at this point. Deputies will only tell us that this was not a random act. As we speak, they are interviewing those two persons of interest. They have also identified two of the victims, but that still leaves four more.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

VON ANCKEN (voice-over): For the first time, deputies allow our cameras up to the front of this Deltona home, showing exactly why the investigation cannot be rushed.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Processing the scene is very tedious, very slow, very methodical.

VON ANCKEN: Nine crime scene technicians from FDLE and the Volusia County Sheriff's Office, must suit up every time they go into the blood spattered home so they don't contaminate the evidence. Evidence they hope that will eventually lead to a suspect.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have some of the best professionals in the country working on it and that may be where your case is built, on one piece of trace evidence.

VON ANCKEN: Friday night, the medical examiner removed the bodies of all six victims, four men and two women, one of them now identified as Michelle Nathan of Deltona. Deputies say they were all friends renting this house. The murder massacre has left them barely recognizable.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is a senseless crime for a senseless reason.

VON ANCKEN: A co-worker at this Burger King sent someone to check on the group when they didn't show up for work Friday morning. And since then neighbors have been telling deputies what they saw and what they heard.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I heard tires squealing.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I saw a suspicious vehicle about 100 feet diagonal from the house. It was like a late '80s model pickup of some sort.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We'll move as fast as we can without doing it by mistakes.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VON ANCKEN: And investigators tell us that there was so much trauma to all of the victims, they must now use fingerprints and dental records to identify them -- Carol.

LIN: All right. Thanks very much, Eric Von Ancken for reporting in live. Elsewhere across America, federal authorities now say only two people were killed today when two private planes collided over Kinnelon, New Jersey. Five fatalities were reported earlier. There were no injuries on the ground.

And Los Angeles police are investigating a break-in at Paris Hilton's rented home in the Hollywood Hills. The reality TV star says burglars cleaned her out of cash and jewelry.

Surveillance video from a convenience store robbery last month in Phoenix, Arizona, hasn't yet yielded a suspect, but it does offer an astonishing glimpse of public apathy. Throughout the holdup, two customers casually browse in the store. A third waited patiently in line to make his purchase as the hooded armed robber plundered the cash registers. An employee courteously held the door for the perp. No one called for help. What's up with that?

A normal day at the office turned out to be one lawyer's worst nightmare.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRISTOPHER HAZELIP, HOSTAGE: I have a gun, I have a bomb, and you're going to do exactly what I say.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LIN: Still to come, I'm going to be talking to the Florida attorney who was able to escape an unexpected guest.

And coming up later, Samir's story. Meet the man who plucked Saddam Hussein from his spider hole.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LIN: Hostage negotiators have one of the toughest assignments in law enforcement. Their most important rule is the same as that of doctors, first, do no harm. For negotiators in Jacksonville, Florida, this week, that meant using a surprising tactic. Mike Brooks explains.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BROOKS (voice-over): It all began with 36-year-old John Knight walked into the office of attorney Christopher Hazelip in Jacksonville, Florida.

HAZELIP: I have a gun, I have a bomb, and you're going to do exactly what I say.

BROOKS: Knight then called Jacksonville mayor John Peyton and said he was holding an attorney hostage at a downtown office building. Peyton was able to contact the Jacksonville Sheriff's Office and offices evacuated the building while Peyton talked with the man for nearly an hour. One of Knight's demands was the resignation of Duval County judge, Sharon Tanner who he had appeared in front of in 1999 for a charge of domestic battery. Prior to the standoff, Knight had given television stations a DVD in which he rambled on spelling out his complaints against Judge Tanner.

JOHN KNIGHT, ACCUSED HOSTAGE TAKER: I had a woman judge discriminate against me for no better reason than I'm a man.

BROOKS: Judge Tanner then made this statement in front of news cameras.

JUDGE SHARON TANNER, DUVAL COUNTY, FLORIDA: I wish to announce that effective immediately, I do hereby resign my position as county judge, Duvall County, in the state of Florida of the 4th Judicial Circuit. As I said, this resignation is effective immediately.

BROOKS: After he heard the judge's statement on live TV, Knight surrendered to police. He was charged with kidnapping, aggravated assault, carrying a concealed firearm, making a bomb hoax and falsely impersonating an officer. On Thursday, Knight made his initial court appearance and was held without bond. But was the bogus resignation the right way to end the standoff?

MAYOR JOHN PEYTON, JACKSONVILLE, FLORIDA: I think that the judge took it upon herself to do something she thought was in the best interest of the hostage and the safety of people in this building, which is -- certainly, I concur with.

BROOKS: Most negotiation tactics for dealing with a hostage situation are not written in stone. This incident turned out with no one killed or injured. But I've spoken with a number of veteran hostage negotiators who are concerned, however, that this could encourage others to try something similar and that this could set a bad precedent for future situations.

Mike Brooks, CNN, Atlanta.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LIN: Amazing.

Well, as Mike Brooks said, the outcome of this particular case is very positive, the hostage is free and unharmed, the suspect in custody. And joining me live from Jacksonville, Florida is the man who was held hostage by John Knight, attorney Chris Hazelip.

Chris, you weren't even supposed to be in the office. You were on vacation. You had just come back. All you wanted to do was check your e-mail.

HAZELIP: Yes, Carol. Hi, by the way. It's very good to be here. And yes, I went into the office just to try to get some things done while people didn't know I was in the office.

LIN: So John Knight arrives. He shows a phony badge to your secretary. And he manages to get into your office. What's the first thing he said to you? HAZELIP: Well, the first thing he said to me after I said, "To what do I owe an unannounced visit from the Justice Department?" He said, "I lied. I'm not from the Justice Department, but I have a 9- millimeter Beretta in this envelop and I have a bomb." And he moved his coat back and said, "I have a mercury switch." And there was a wire attached to his belt. And he said, "If you don't do exactly what I say, then I'm going to blow this place up."

LIN: You believed him?

HAZELIP: Oh, absolutely.

LIN: What was going through your mind?

HAZELIP: Well, I realized that he meant business and he said several times that he did. So the next thing I said to him was well, tell me what I can do to help you. Tell me what your problem is and maybe I can help.

LIN: And you talked about this domestic charge that he faced, that was detailed in the piece. And you could not actually tell anybody else in the building that this was going on. And at one point in this, what, 13-hour dialogue you had with this man?

HAZELIP: Oh, not 13 hours, no. It took about two hours.

LIN: Oh, two hours, OK. I have a wire report that said 13 hours.

HAZELIP: No, two hours.

LIN: All right. During this ordeal, your secretary, not knowing what was going on inside your office, actually came in to talk to you. What happened then?

HAZELIP: Well, she made a couple trips in. One was to get the package that he insisted I mail to the -- or hand deliver to the mayor. And another time she came in later after the word had gotten out, when the dialogue with the mayor began of what was going on in my office. The word had gotten out...

LIN: But she didn't know. She was trying to warn you to leave.

HAZELIP: Correct. She came in and said that we need to evacuate the building, there's somebody with a gun and a bomb that's holding somebody hostage. And of course, it was the man right in my office.

LIN: Crazy.

HAZELIP: But she had been given other information that turned out to be incorrect such as the event was taking place on the 10th floor instead of the 13th floor where my office was.

LIN: Got you. Got you. Now, do you think Judge Tanner made a personal decision to intervene in this case and go to the microphones and issue this bogus resignation? HAZELIP: Well, I know Judge Tanner personally. I respect her very much.

LIN: And she knew it was you.

HAZELIP: Yes, I assume that she did. And I appreciate very much what she did. But knowing her as I do, I think she would have done it even if it was a person that she did not know. I think her concern out of compassion was that there be no loss of human life, and if there was something that she could do to help avoid that, then she...

LIN: Right.

Oh no, did we lose the signal? We lost the signal. Chris Hazelip, thank you very much for being with us. I hope you can hear us. Your time in the spotlight has passed. Thank you very much. And we're glad that you're doing just fine. Chris Hazelip whose office is on the 13th floor.

All right, he was forced to leave his country with only $6 to his name. Coming up next, we're going to explain how coming to America helped to free his family in Iraq.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LIN: More of CNN LIVE SATURDAY in just a moment, but first a quick look at what's happening now in the news.

Tragedy in Schenectady, New York -- I've got it out -- where six people were killed today in a fast moving house fire. Five children were among the victims, including a 7-month-old baby. Two adults managed to escape the fire, but the cause is still under investigation.

Police are questioning two people about the six bodies found in a house in Deltona, Florida. The six people, four men and two women, were found after one of them failed to show up for work. Police describe the murders as very, very brutal and said the victims suffered violent trauma.

Two people are under arrest after a disturbance at an Enola Gay Exhibit in suburban Washington. About 20 people protested near the display of the aircraft that dropped the first atomic bomb and two protesters covered themselves in ash.

Army PFC Lynndie England wants the court to order high officials to testify at her preliminary hearing, including Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld. There's no indication that the court will grant the request.

Keeping you informed, CNN, the most trusted name in news.

Now Iraq is an evolving nation with -- even with the birth of its newfound democracy, there has been violence and death. But one Iraqi says the nation is better off after the collapse of Saddam Hussein's regime. CNN special contributor and former Iraqi POW Ron Young sat down with this man we call only Samir. He takes us on a journey of repression, to rebellion, to exile and finally in an amazing turn, face-to-face with Saddam Hussein.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SAMIR: I told him if you are the real man, you should have called yourself.

RON YOUNG, CNN SPECIAL CONTRIBUTOR (voice-over): Tough words for a man who grew up in a tough world.

SAMIR: I was there during an execution. I lost two cousins during Saddam's regime. Neighbors, friends, I know, they were executed by Saddam. And after they shot them dead, before even their parents, they get the body; they have to pay a fine for the bullets.

YOUNG: Samir grew up in Nasiriyah. As a teenager, he hated Saddam Hussein, wanted to rebel, but feared the consequences.

SAMIR: If you tried to overthrow Saddam, you could not make it.

YOUNG: Finally, Samir's chance came.

GEORGE H.W. BUSH, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Tonight, the battle has been joined.

SAMIR: It's in 1991, during the Gulf War. I think pretty much a lot of Iraqis thought this is the best time for Iraq to have a new president, to get rid of Saddam. We had guns, and we went to the building, the Ba'ath Party building, and places for Saddam security was the prison, torturing people inside that prison. We broke the doors and we got some prisoners out. We thought we were going to get help maybe from the United States, but it didn't happen. We were just left behind.

YOUNG (on camera): What happened to you after that?

SAMIR: I went to my family, my parents. I told them I'm not staying here because I know what's going to happen to me and they're going to kill me for sure. And I told them I'm leaving. I cannot live here anymore.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How many children did they take?

SAMIR: I went to the border between Iraq and Kuwait. There was a U.S. military between the borders and we asked for protection. And they did. They protected us and they gave us food, a tent to live, medicine, anything we need. They managed somehow with the Saudi Arabian government. And they build our refugee camp for the refugees. We were thousands. Thousands of refugees left the country. I lived there for three-and-a-half years. It's really tough. It is not easy, but you have no choice. You have no choice. Either you stay or you go back to be killed.

I have a cousin. He came here to the United States in 1992. He sent me a letter when I was in Saudi Arabia in that camp and he explained to me the life. And I was like, that's where I want to be, the United States. I just got lucky.

YOUNG (voice-over): The U.N. granted Samir refugee status and he settled in St. Louis.

SAMIR: When I came to the United States, I had no English, no speak English. I have six bucks in my pocket, $6. Now I'm driving a nice car.

YOUNG: Samir thrived in St. Louis. He learned English, became a citizen. Part of his heart, though, remained in Iraq.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: States like these and their terrorist allies constitute an axis of evil.

YOUNG: When President Bush started talking about going to war against Saddam, Samir became excited.

SAMIR: I just wanted it to happen because that's the only chance, the only chance is the United States to go to Iraq and kick Saddam out of there. I want to help. I speak the language. I can do something. I applied for the job as a translator and I got the job.

YOUNG (on camera): And you weren't nervous about this decision?

SAMIR: No. I was completely fine. 100 percent to do it. They sent us to Iraq after Baghdad fall.

YOUNG (voice-over): But Samir wasn't sent to Baghdad.

SAMIR: And I asked my boss, what city in Iraq we are? He said, "This is Nasiriyah." I was like almost having a heart attack. And I told my boss that night, I told him, I'm from here and I got kicked out of the country in 1991. I haven't seen my parents yet. They said, "We're going to take you home to see your parents tomorrow." We walked in the village, me and the American forces. Everybody crying. My dad hugged me, crying so bad, my brothers, my mom. I cried, too. It was a great moment. We came with America to free them and to see your family. That was a great moment for me. That was the best moment ever.

YOUNG: But soon there would be another moment that would change Samir's life.

SAMIR: I had to really yell at him and stuff. He said, "I'm Saddam Hussein."

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LIN: And that was from our special contributor Ron Young. Stay with us. More of Samir's story when we return.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SAMIR: He stick both hands up and I reached him. And I grabbed him. I grabbed him. I was like; I'm not going to let him go.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LIN: Samir explains the feeling he got when he pulled Saddam from out of the ground.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LIN: More now on the story of Samir, a former Iraqi refugee and later hero to many in Iraq. Samir was part of the intense manhunt to catch Saddam Hussein. In this part of his story, the translator for U.S. Special Forces recounts the night he laid eyes on Saddam hiding in a spider hole.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SAMIR: I want to show the world, I want to show all people I know that's the hole we dragged Saddam off, from that little bitty dirty hole. YOUNG (voice-over): For Samir, catching Saddam was personal. Forced to flee Iraq to the U.S., his heart still hurt for his family suffering back home. When the U.S. went back to remove Saddam Hussein, he wanted to help. He was sent back to Tikrit as a translator with the U.S. Special Forces.

SAMIR: They don't want to see you in the uniform. They don't care if you're American or you're an Iraqi. They don't care. They look at you like you are a traitor or a spy or something.

YOUNG: Samir was assigned to the tedious and frustrating search for Saddam. Sparks of hope would quickly fade. Then, the break they were looking for. Now, for the first time, someone on the mission tells what happened the night Special Forces caught Saddam Hussein.

SAMIR: On December 13th, we knew -- we have info -- Saddam is there on that farm, hidden somewhere on that farm, but we had his bodyguard. He's the one we were looking for because we knew he would lead to Saddam. I was a translator for this guy. And he started crying. He said, "Don't kill me. I'll show you where Saddam is." And we got on that farm about 8:00 p.m. on Saturday night. And the forces went inside and they searched the whole farm and there is no sign of Saddam. The guy showed us exactly where the bunker is.

YOUNG: The bodyguard showed you where the bunker was?

SAMIR: Yes. He said -- point with his finger, he said, "Dig in here." It was really hard to see. There was the bunker. It was just like covered with dirt, and what they do when Saddam go in, they take leaves from the trees and they throw them on top of it. They make it look like it's been there for a long time. We dig in there and we found a hole, a little bitty hole. It can't be -- especially when you think about looking for Saddam Hussein, the dictator, the one who has the power over his people. It just -- it doesn't crosses your mind, but he was there. He was there. He heard shots and he started yelling inside. And they said, "Samir, come talk to him, tell him to come out." And he started saying, "Don't shoot. Don't kill me. Don't shoot." They asked me to tell him -- to ask him put your hands up. We want to see your hands. I told him, "Put your hands up." And it was like one hand. I said, "Let me see your other hand." And he did this. I said, "No, both hands up."

YOUNG: And you're looking down the hole at this point?

SAMIR: Yes, I was like -- this guy is like pulling me back because they don't know what's in there. And a bomb is going to come off or something. I tried to talk to him, but this guy is Samir -- they pulled me back. I'm like -- we have helicopters, about eight of them. Anyway, he sticks both hands out, and I reached him. And I grabbed him. I grabbed him. I was like I'm not going to let him go. Everyone got a piece of Saddam. We pulled him out. And I look at him. I knew that's Saddam from his face. And I told him, this is Saddam. They didn't believe me at first. They said, "Ask him his name." And I said this is Saddam. They said, "No, ask him." And I asked him, "What's your name?" He said -- first, he said, ah. What's your name? And he said, "I'm Saddam." Saddam what? I had to really like yell at him and stuff. He said, "I'm Saddam Hussein."

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LIN: We will have more on Samir's story after a quick break. In Part III, Samir vividly paints a picture of what the capture of Saddam Hussein meant in his life and in the war on Iraq.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LIN: In the conclusion of Samir's story, he tells CNN contributor Ron Young how the capture of Saddam Hussein was the most significant moment in the war and in his life.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SAMIR: At that moment, I was like I don't know what to do. I don't know what to do. I'm like this is the guy who destroyed millions of lives. He's in my hands. I don't know. Just to kill him right away is not right. I don't know what to do really. I told him, "You call yourself a hero and a leader of the Arab nation. You are a nobody." And he called me a traitor and a spy. He make me really upset. And I had to punch him. I was so angry. I don't know. Really punch him a couple times in the face, grabbed him from his beard. They told me to stop. That's enough.

Saddam spoke two words in English when we pulled him out. When we pulled him out, he spoke a word because he thought nobody Arabic with these forces. He said "America why?" He say it three times, "America why? America why? America why." And I remember one of the forces told me to tell him, they said, "Samir, tell him the reason we're here, because President Bush sent us to find you."

YOUNG: How did he react?

SAMIR: In a small voice, he said, my shoe is better than you or your family. Any question you ask him, he's crazy. I think he's crazy. He's like the war is not over. He said, "I'm a hostage or I'm a prisoner?"

YOUNG: He had no idea. SAMIR: Yes. He said, "You didn't win the war." He said, "You didn't win the win. The war is not over." We told him that the war is over! The war is over. It's gone. You're gone. He said, "No, the war's not over."

YOUNG (voice-over): Special Forces took Saddam Hussein back to one of his palaces. He was no longer president, but a prisoner.

(on camera): Was he crying?

SAMIR: He wasn't really crying, but he was like -- felt like he's not Saddam anymore. He's not the president anymore. He felt it's gone. I remember a couple questions they asked him. I was there. They asked him about the master graves and he denied it. And he blamed the vice president -- the Iraqi vice president, al Dhouri. He said, "America" -- like this -- "Why you come and like crossing the Atlantic. You come in here" -- like the way he talk -- "You come in here to Iraq, what do you know about Baghdad?"

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ladies and gentlemen, we got him.

YOUNG (voice-over): Soon, word traveled in Nasiriyah, and later the pictures.

SAMIR: My mom, when she saw that picture, that first picture came out like with my face. She said, from his head, I could tell that was Samir. My parents they're proud of me.

YOUNG: Samir returned to St. Louis. He told only a few people what happened. He tried to tell his story to President Bush in an e- mail, but it bounced back. Then last month, friends arranged for him to meet President Bush.

SAMIR: I was like, it can't be. It can't be. I was like -- I couldn't sleep that night. I just couldn't believe it. I shook the president's hand. And I told him, "Mr. President, thank you, thank you for what you have done to the Iraq, to free the country." And it just -- that's a great moment. Again, I tell him, "Sir, this is me and Saddam." And he said he saw it. He saw that picture.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: U.S. out! Rumsfeld out!

YOUNG (on camera): What would you say to the people in this country who say that our going to war wasn't worth it, that the cost is too high?

SAMIR: I want to say like, especially the whole family, they have sons or kids that have daddy or mother serving in Iraq, I want to tell them what they do in Iraq, it's the right thing because they save a life. They're changing the Iraq. Going to Iraq, I think, is the right thing.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LIN: And that's all the time we have for this hour. I'll be back at 10:00 p.m. Eastern for a hot debate surrounding a ban on the sale of sex toys. Does the government have the right to govern what goes on in your bedroom? I'll be right back tonight at 10:00 Eastern to debate that issue.

But right now, Al Hunt is in for Mark Shields and he tells what the gang has tonight.

AL HUNT, "THE CAPITAL GANG": Thanks. We'll look at terrorism and politics, the attack on John Kerry's war record and what's happening in the Missouri battleground state, former house majority whip Tony Quello and U.S Olympic chief Peter Ueberroth join the Capital Gang. All that and more next on CNN.

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