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CNN Live Saturday
Today Marks 20th Anniversary Of First U.S. Woman In Space; Presidential Election Heats Up Over Who Won Yesterday's Debate
Aired October 09, 2004 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CAROL LIN, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Carol Lin at the CNN center. CNN LIVE SATURDAY is straight ahead. But here's what's happening now in the news. The Iraqi government has reached a deal to restore peace to Baghdad's Sadr City. It calls for fighters loyal to Muqtada al Sadr to hand over their big weapons starting Monday. And Afgan President Hamid Karzai says results from today's election should be respected. 15 of his opponents are saying there was widespread fraud.
And Tropical Storm Matthew flooding parts of Louisiana today. In one town, up to 7 inches of rain fell in 24 hours.
Well, here it is. I'm Carol Lin and welcome to CNN LIVE SATURDAY. Police need your help. Who are these women? A suspected serial killer had their pictures. I'm going to talk to the sheriff who is trying to find out if these women are dead or alive.
And ride, Sally Ride. The first American woman in space and the first U.S. woman to walk in space joins me live tonight for a look forward and back at 20 years of women in outer space.
But right now we begin this hour with the race for the White House. George Bush and John Kerry are both talking tough and claiming victory today after last night's presidential debate. And they've wasted no time getting back on the campaign trail. President Bush is stumping in Missouri, Iowa and Minnesota today, while Senator Kerry is wooing voters in Ohio and Florida. Our Candy Crowley is traveling with the Kerry campaign.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CANDY CROWLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Bushels of apples, bails of hay, a big crowd and politicians. It is Americana at its best and a great place to begin the final bid for the middle class.
SENATOR JOHN KERRY, PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It all boils down to this. 24 days from now the American dream is on the ballot. And we have to decide. We have to decide, Ohio.
CROWLEY: Even if this setting in the must-win State of Ohio did not speak of an oncoming election, the urgency of the rhetoric would.
KERRY: America is made for this moment, but this president and this administration are not. America needs new leadership, not a single-minded leader, but a clear-headed leader. Not a headstrong leader, but a well reasoned leader. The kind of leadership that American hearts are willing to follow.
CROWLEY: Following the St. Louis debate, John Kerry dropped into Ohio to offer up his own post-game analysis -- to wit he showed them in the Show Me State.
KERRY: So did you watch that debate last night? 2-0 and we're moving on to the third. And I look forward to it.
CROWLEY: From the top down, this is a campaign oozing confidence beyond the standard "we're on the road to victory" stuff. Kerry's strategists, it happens, also believe he won the debate, making this the first time in history where a challenger has twice beaten an incumbent president in the debates. The campaign also cites a post- debate night poll showing he pool of support with swing voters and independents and gain in likeablity, something the campaign intends to stoke one way or another.
KERRY: I thought the President was going to attack Charlie Gibson.
CROWLEY (on camera): Inside the campaign, they are considerably more blunt calling George Bush's refusal to admit mistakes close to pigheadedness. You can expect over the next several days that John Kerry will be happy to outline the mistakes he thinks George Bush has made. Candy Crowley, CNN, Elyria, Ohio.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LIN: Ah, but President Bush is taking aim at the voting record of his opponent, Senator John Kerry, again today. Our White House correspondent Suzanne Malveaux is traveling with the President and joins me from Chanhassen, Minnesota -- Suzanne.
SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN CORRRESPONDENT: Carol, it's his 13th visit to Minnesota. This is a state that he lost by just 2 1/2 percentage points back in 2000. But the Bush campaign believes it is very much in play, that especially after the President's performance in the debate last night. Bush aides saying, of course, that they believe this puts the President very much back in the game.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH, U.S. PRESIDENT: He can run, but he cannot hide.
MALVEAUX (voice-over): A new campaign line with a distinctly familiar ring. Once a warning often directed at Osama bin Laden and the terrorists, now at his opponent, Senator John Kerry.
BUSH: Several of the statements last night simply don't pass the credibility test. With a straight face he said, "I have only had one position on Iraq." I could barely contain myself. He must think we've been on another planet...
...and he tries to tell us he's had only one position. He can run, but he cannot hide. MALVEAUX: Hide from his 20-year voting record in the Senate, that is. Heading into the final weeks of the campaign, the President's strategy is to use Kerry's record as someone who will say one thing but do another.
BUSH: And then Senator Kerry was asked to look into the camera and promise he'd not raise taxes for anyone that earns less than $200,000 a year. The problem is, to keep that promise, he would have to break almost all of his other ones.
MALVEAUX: At the same time, the President is playing up his own economic policies in preparation for Wednesday's final debate, which will focus on domestic issues like employment.
BUSH: I've got a plan to keep our economy moving forward, to make sure jobs are here, to make sure people can find work. America must be the best place in the world to do business.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MALVEAUX (on-camera): Now, another key component of the President's strategy is to deliver that message in states he barely lost back in 2000, including Iowa, New Mexico, Oregon and here in Minnesota. Carol?
LIN: All right. Thanks very much, Suzanne.
Well, thanks to modern technology and frankly dogged determination, CNN can take a flash poll of opinions right after last night's debate. Now, remember, only people who watched the debate were surveyed and we learned that Kerry won the debate but by only 2 percentage points, 47 to 45 percent as to who did a better job in that debate. An ABC News poll looks at it a little bit differently. 44 percent of those surveyed say John Kerry won the debate compared to 41 percent who said it was Bush. 13 percent say it was a tie.
And win, lose or draw, our political editor, John Mercurio in Washington is reviewing the tapes of last night's face-off. John, when you take a look at the polls, quick question for you. Why do you think President Bush appears to be keeping a lot of his ground and then John Kerry isn't dramatically gaining more if, if in both, after the first debate and the second debate, a slim majority of people believe that John Kerry did a better job debating.
JOHN MERCURIO, CNN POLITICAL EDITOR: Well, I don't think it's any secret. I mean, this whole election has been extremely close. It's been essentially a statistical tie for nine out of the past 10 months of the polling that's been done. I mean, the electorate that we are looking at, that we're talking to that the campaign is following is extremely divided. I think John Kerry, you have to remember, of course, that they are essentially stuck in a dead heat right now. Kerry had been trailing by as much as 8 to 12 points following the Republican convention in late August. So there has been a lot of movement, actually, towards Kerry since the first debate. President Bush might be holding on to a lead. It's statistically insignificant though, at this point. LIN: Very different styles we saw last night between the two candidates. I want to show our viewers a moment with President Bush, a moment that frankly he wasn't willing to wait for the moderator in order for President Bush to make his point.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CHARLIE GIBSON, ABC NEWS: Mr. President, let's extend for a minute...
BUSH: Wait a second. I've got to answer this.
GIBSON: Exactly. And with reservists being held on duty, some soldiers...
BUSH: Let me answer what he just said about....
GIBSON: Well, I wanted to get into the issue of...
BUSH: You tell Tony Blair we're going alone. Tell Tony Blair we're going alone. Tell Serbio(sic) Berlusconi we're going alone...
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LIN: Some might say the President lost his temper there. Others might say that he was standing strong on his principles. How did that play with the viewers?
MERCURIO: I think that was one of the most interesting parts of the debate. Because each campaign took that bite and turned it into something completely different. The Kerry campaign took that bite and said, look, this man is unbalanced, he loses his temper, he has no control over his thoughts or his emotions.
The Bush campaign loved that moment. They said, look, this is a man with passion. He was upset with the way that Kerry had criticized the U.S. coalition -- the U.S.-led coalition in Iraq and he needed to get his point across. I think the other thing the Bush campaign loved was something the President has been doing a lot during these debates, which is discussing his relationships with foreign leaders, with Silvio Berlusconi, the head of Italy and Tony Blair, the prrime minister of England. It's an attempt, I think, on the part of the President to appear more statesman-like. More internationally focused.
LIN: They didn't -- the Bush campaign didn't mind that President Bush mispronounced Berlusconi's name?
MERCURIO: I didn't ask them that. I didn't ask them that. I don't know.
LIN: OK, all right. Noted on the late-night talk shows.
MERCURIO: I didn't like the fact that he said "Internets," though. I hear they weren't too pleased with that. LIN: All right. John Kerry had a moment as well. Frankly, great questions by the people in the audience. Here's one we want to share.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KERRY: Right into the camera, yes. I am not going to raise taxes. I have a tax cut...
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LIN: This a moment after one of the people in the audience challenged John Kerry to look right in the camera and promise that he was not going to raise taxes. A la a reminder of senior George Bush and how he had to eat those words later on.
MERCURIO: Absolutely. Well, as you just saw on Suzanne Malveaux's package, the Bush campaign is already taking that line and turning it against Senator Kerry saying, look, if he keeps this promise, which he made last night in front of the camera, he's going to have to break all of his other promises.
I think Senator Kerry actually handled that very well. He was asked a question, he responded directly to it. I think that was one of the questions that the Kerry campaign today is pointing to to say, look, we appeal to swing voters. President Bush was appealing to his base, to his conservative base with answers to questions on stem cell research, on abortion. But I think the Kerry campaign was happy because it appealed to people who I think are a little bit concerned by the Bush campaign's criticism of Senator Kerry as a tax and spend liberal.
LIN: A lot at stake in the debate coming up next Wednesday.
MERCURIO: Absolutely. I think what has to happen next week, essentially, is that the president needs to, you know, sort of remind Americans who have lost faith in the past week because of his performance last week in Miami that he can be a strong leader, that he is the commander in chief and can lead the war on terror. Senator Kerry needs to seal the deal. He needs to close the deal. He hasn't totally done that yet.
LIN: Right. We'll see what happens. Thanks very much, John.
MERCURIO: Thank you.
LIN: A quick reminder for our viewers. We are going to be covering that third debate -- third and final debate this Wednesday in Arizona before, during and after. Our in-depth coverage of the Tempe match-up begins at 7:00 p.m. Eastern.
In the meantime in Afghanistan, millions of voters turned out for the country's first ever direct presidential election there. But what can you make of an election where people might have voted more than once? CNN's chief international correspondent Christiane Amanpour has more from the capital, Kabul. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The day dawned on a sight Afghanistan has never before seen. At this one polling station alone, thousands of men lining up to cast their first vote for president. And in separate lines, the women, vastly outnumbered, but nevertheless there.
"I never thought I'd have the right to vote," says Zaidahn(ph), "but you see, we left our children and our chores at home and came to elect our president." Inside, a small boy helps his blind old grandmother to the booth. She gets a hand dipping her thumb in ink to prevent fraud. But a couple of hours later, this ink brought the whole process to a halt. Agents of opposition candidates declared it easily washed off.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I have cast my vote, but the ink was removable.
AMANPOUR: And for the rest of the day, the voting was thrown into turmoil. A flak jacketed UN worker brought a fresh batch of ink. But by now, opposition candidates, many of them unpopular former warlords, had banded together, telling the press they wanted fresh elections and that a victory by front-runner, transitional President Hamid Karzai would not be legitimate. And they issued threats.
AHMADSHAH AHMADZAI: We will tell him OK, go ahead and run this country. But we don't obey him, if he doesn't obey him -- the whole nation doesn't obey him, how he can run the government?
AMANPOUR (on camera): By early afternoon, UN organizers were in crisis talks with the opposition candidates, trying, as one official told us, to save the day. Meantime, these women and thousands of men kept lining up, eager to vote, not knowing whether their first ever election would be a success or would end up being disputed. In the end, the UN declared the voting would proceed and concerns would be addressed later. They said turnout was high nationwide, which itself presented another problem.
(voice-over) "I came this morning and they told us the ink was fake, go home. So I came back again two hours ago. I left my two children at home, and now they say they've run out of ballot papers." But on this day, all sorts of feelings bubbled over.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I am so happy. I should say I am very, very happy because now we -- I am sure we will have a good government in the future.
AMANPOUR: And the threat of violence that kept international observers away never materialized. Besides, it was never going to keep the voters away. Christiane Amanpour, CNN, Kabul, Afghanistan.
LIN: Well, in Iraq, some are calling it a breakthrough deal. Still to come tonight, rebel cleric Muqtada al Sadr says he's ready to cooperate. Will it help bring peace to Baghdad? Plus, the soldiers' story. Their job is not to fight the war but to tell it. Up next we're going to follow two soldiers as they document history.
And later, he's allegedly killed one woman. Two others are dead. Now investigators worry there could be even more victims.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LIN: News from around the world right now. In Gaza, separate Israeli attacks left eight Palestinians dead today. For 10 days, Israel has been conducting a major military operation in Gaza to stop Palestinian militants from firing rockets into Israel.
And in Egypt, a rising death toll. Egyptian officials say at least 34 people are dead in Thursday's attacks on a resort in Taba. They say nine of the dead are Egyptians, five are Israelis and 20 still unidentified. Israel says al Qaeda is likely behind the bombings. Egypt says it is too early to say.
And in London and Liverpool, a moment of silence. A day of mourning was held for murdered British hostage Kenneth Bigley. The 62-year-old engineer was beheaded by his captors in Iraq and U.S. officials tell CNN that Bigley was killed after he tried to escape, possibly with the help of one of his captors.
And somewhere in the Persian Gulf, an unusual get-together. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld met 18 of his counterparts on an American aircraft carrier on sea to talk about the war on terror. They met in a cramped room below deck. Rumsfeld then heads to Europe for a NATO meeting.
Well, the 311th Military Detachment based out of Queens, New York is made up of only three soldiers and like others in the army they can be called to serve in war zones like Iraq or Afghanistan. But it's not to fight. CNN's Alina Cho explains in our special segment "On the Front Lines."
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ALINA CHO, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): On the battlefields of Iraq and Afghanistan, American soldiers are fighting a war on terror. At home, the 311th Military History Detachment is documenting it.
GRANT GOLDSMITH, U.S. ARMY HISTORIAN: Today is Friday, October 8th, 2004. This is the oral history of Lieutenant Colonel Thomas.
CHO: Colonel Dan Thomas is back from a four-month tour in Afghanistan.
LTC DAN THOMAS, U.S. ARMY: When you look at the area, we're kind of in a central area right here.
CHO: He is eager to tell his story.
THOMAS: Every deal is Monday. Everything meal is a smorgasbord, as they call it.
CHO: Major Grant Goldsmith is listening. A soldier himself, Goldsmith's only job now is to record combat operations through the eyes of others. Armed with a camera, tape recorder, pen and paper, Goldsmith asks questions about the climate...
THOMAS: Very hot, very dry.
CHO: ...bumps in the road.
THOMAS: You are out there in the middle of nowhere. It looks like the moon but you just do what you have to do.
CHO: ...and how families cope with having loved ones overseas.
THOMAS: Send a lot of cookies, a lot of food, a lot of goodies. It keeps the morale up.
CHO: The military history detachment was formed during World War II. After September 11th, the Global War On Terrorism History Project was born. Major Goldsmith signed up, interviewing soldiers like Colonel Thomas.
THOMAS: Something unique that you and other individuals have done that not a lot of people have done or will do.
CHO: The information is sent to Washington and becomes part of the military record.
GOLDSMITH: Every story is an important story, even if you are hearing the same story for the 15th time. There's a different perspective from a different view of the battle.
CHO: Sergeant Christina Steiner used to collect data for the 311th Military Detachment.
SFC CHRISTINA STEINER, U.S. MILITARY: This flag is from the former World Trade Center site.
CHO: She looked through artifacts and poured through interviews and wrote a book about the role of army reservists after 9/11. Major Goldsmith is continuing that work.
(on camera) Could be in the history books some day.
GOLDSMITH: Could be.
CHO (voice-over): Making sure today's war becomes tomorrow's story. Alina Cho, CNN, Philadelphia.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LIN: Almost 20 years ago, history was made. And that's when astronaut Kathy Sullivan became the first American woman to walk in space. And Sally Ride, the first U.S. woman in space. Both join me live next. And this...
KIM BRYANT, MOTHER OF TWINS (video clip): I was just in a lot of pain. And it was really just affecting me, the fact that I couldn't really respond to my own kids.
LIN: Baby blues. Straight ahead, a look at postpartum depression in mothers with multiples.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KATHY SULLIVAN, ASTRONAUT: We had a super flight. We enjoyed every bit of it. You just can't beat that experience and I'm just looking forward to getting back in line and trying a second time.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LIN: Well, it was Neil Armstrong who said "One small step for man, one giant leap for mankind," as he became the first man to walk on the moon back in 1969. But there you saw her, Kathy Sullivan. It would take almost 15 more years for American women to join the ranks of space explorers. But Sally Ride made history in 1983, becoming the first American woman in space. And Kathy Sullivan followed her with her walk in space. And they are with me tonight on this 20th anniversary. Ladies, can you believe it's been 20 years?
SALLY RIDE, FORMER ASTRONAUT: No!
LIN: Does it feel like yesterday?
Sally, I remember when you were on the cover of "People" magazine and so much to-do about being the first woman in space(sic). And there I was growing up and you said something that really resonated with me. You said women will have truly made it in this world when you are not on the cover of "People" magazine doing something frankly what you have trained your whole life to do.
RIDE: Yeah, that's exactly right. I remember that. And we're getting closer and closer to that time, I think. Now it's very rare for the space shuttle to launch without a woman onboard. There's a woman on almost every crew. Two women on many crews.
LIN: Did you guys know each other back in the '80s when you were coming up through the ranks?
KATHY SULLIVAN, FORMER ASTRONAUT: Well, interesting you should ask that question. Not in the '80s, but we discovered when we met in Houston in 1978 reporting aboard that we had been at the same elementary school for a brief window of first grade just as my family moved out to California.
LIN: Seriously?
SULLIVAN: Yeah. First grade and then almost exactly 20 years later reporting to NASA together.
LIN: What a coincidence.
RIDE: And we did come in in the same astronaut class so we got to know each other real well before my flight and before our flight together in 1984, 20 years ago.
LIN: So how much do you think it's changed for women who are coming through the ranks? I mean, you guys probably the only ones in your mechanical engineering class I would hazard to guess?
SULLIVAN: We were typically the only ones. And in the physical sciences and engineering, the numbers are still fairly low. They are slowly increasing and we are beginning to see some exciting things like women as deans of the engineering faculty, a mutual friend of ours, Maria Zuber at MIT. Heading major engineering schools, again MIT. So it's opening out and it doesn't ask as much of you to believe that you can go somewhere that no one who looks like you has ever been before.
LIN: Since it is more brains than braun, do you think women would have an easier time coming through the ranks in science, Sally?
RIDE: Well, I don't know. I think that there's certainly no obstacles to women coming up the ranks in science and we're seeing a lot more of them making it -- not only to the top of the scientific fields, but as Kathy said to presidents of major universities, MIT being one of the latest to have a woman be the head of it. So I think that you are just going to see the numbers continue to increase. We're still moving towards 50 percent, not quite there yet, but we will be eventually.
LIN: Yep, and a lot has been done in 20 years. Kathy, you are now the CEO of the Center of Science and Industry and making milestones yourself. I'm wondering, what is your favorite memory as you look back on your career here and what was it like? What did it feel like? Do you remember that sensation of walking in space?
SULLIVAN: Well, most of the really dramatic sensations of a space flight you're not going to forget. The accelerations of liftoff, the really amazing feelings of re-entry and a spacewalk is sort of like being in 0 g inside the spacecraft except there's no frame around your view. Probably the favorite personal memory for me is hanging off the rail of an orbiter almost like you'd hang off a subway strap in a train and looking down past my feet and seeing Venezuela slipping between my boots.
LIN: Oh my gosh.
SULLIVAN: It's pretty fun.
LIN: Can anything top that experience? All right. Where do you think the space program is headed? I mean, how long do you think before they are going to be commercial flights to space? You guys were probably watching the Spaceship One project as the $10 million X prize was given out. SULLIVAN: It's a great step forward. A very exciting one.
RIDE: Yeah, it really is. And I think it's a very cool looking spaceship and it's a real milestone that they were able to achieve what they did and win the prize. I think it's going to be still a few years, of course, before you can buy your ticket to fly into space, but Kathy and I are already pooling our money to be able to buy a ticket. But I think that day is something and whether it's a decade away, you know, 12 years, 15 years, who knows. But it's coming and it's coming in our lifetime.
LIN: And it's coming so the grandkids will maybe be vacationing on the moon. Who knows?
SULLIVAN: They'll have a great time.
LIN: All right. Thanks so much, Kathy Sullivan and Sally Ride. A privilege to speak to both of you.
RIDE: Thank you.
SULLIVAN: Great being with you, Carol.
LIN: Well, he's locked up in Alabama charged with murder. And now officials in at least three other states want to know if this man has killed even more women.
Plus, could the South be in for another soaking? Tropical Storm Matthew sets its sights on Louisiana. We're going to have its track.
And later -- cloned cats. Forget about nine lives. These kittens could have even more.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LIN: Welcome back. And here's a quick look at what's happening right now in the news. John Kerry hit the campaign trail after declaring himself the winner of last night's debate. Today he's campaigning in the battleground states of Ohio and Florida.
And after speaking at a rally in St. Louis this morning, President Bush left for appearances in other parts of Missouri, as well as Iowa and Minnesota. And in Australia, the polls have closed and conservative Prime Minister John Howard has been elected to a fourth term. His win came despite widespread anger at his decision to send troops to Iraq last year. President Bush was quick to praise the victory.
And also in Britain, they paused for a moment of silence today to honor slain British hostage Kenneth Bigley. Bigley was beheaded after being held hostage in Iraq for three weeks. U.S. officials believe he was killed after he tried to escape.
And Tropical Storm Matthew flooded roads and homes in southeast Louisiana after coming ashore earlier today. More than 7 inches of rain fell in parts of the Mississippi Delta. We're going to have more on that storm in just a moment.
But right now a chilling discovery in the storage locker of a suspected serial killer. Pictures of eight women, two now have come forward after their pictures were posted on the Internet and aired on television. But now police are hoping to hear from the other six. CNN's Sara Dorsey has that story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SARAH DORSEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): 31-year-old Jeremy Jones, shown here handcuffed and shackled, is charged in Mobile, Alabama, with the murder of Lisa Nichols. Now investigators in several states believe they could be looking at a serial killer.
JOHN TYSON, JR. MOBILE COUNTY DA: I know that we have the sheriff's office who has received inquiries from Douglasville, Georgia, Escambia County, Alabama, Tuscaloosa County, Alabama, Oklahoma, and I think California and Arizona.
DORSEY: Georgia authorities searched an Atlanta suburb storage shed belonging to Jones. They say they found items possibly linking him to the murder of his former neighbor, 16-year-old Amanda Greenwell. Deputies also suspect he's involved in the 2002 slaying of Tina Mayberry. Photographs of eight unidentified women were also found. Authorities appealed to the public for information. Two of them came forward, one telling detectives that she knew Jones. Authorities are still hoping to hear from the other six. Jones remains in custody in Alabama and in a hearing on Thursday his attorney tried to block interested law enforcement agencies from talking to his client.
HABIB YAZDI, JEREMY JONES'S ATTORNEY: From the conversation we have I realize he's not in the right mind to talk to law enforcement agencies without the presence of a lawyer.
DORSEY: In the meantime, Amanda Greenwell's family waits for answers.
RICHARD GREENWELL, AMANDA GREENWELL'S FATHER: They've taken on Amanda's case as if she were their own child. They haven't given up. They won't give up until -- until this is settled.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DORSEY (on camera): Mobile County isn't giving many details about those two women who came forward but is stressing how important it is they hear from the other six. This week Alabama investigators plan to travel to some of the other states that have unsolved homicide cases to see if, in fact, Jones could have been involved there. One of those is Oklahoma and that is his home state.
LIN: Wow. All right. It must be agonizing for people who have missing daughters.
DORSEY: It absolutely is. So many people -- two especially here in Georgia are just waiting to see if he's going to be charged for their crimes.
LIN: All right. Let's see if he's talking. Thanks, very much, Sarah.
DORSEY: Thank you.
LIN: In the meantime, Sarah was just talking about police in Georgia are also appealing to the public to help identify the women in those pictures. Douglas County sheriff Phil Miller says investigators don't know if these women are still alive. He joins us now by telephone to tell us where the investigation is standing. Sheriff, good to have you.
SHERIFF PHIL MILLER, DOUGLAS COUNTY SHERIFF'S OFFICE (on telephone): Good to be here.
LIN: Do you know if the suspect is talking?
MILLER: Well, he's talking. He has not told us who these women are and he hasn't told us everything that we need to know, but he is talking.
LIN: What is he talking about then?
MILLER: Well, he's talking about the case and the things that happened, the case that occurred in Mobile, Alabama. He's talking. He's talked to us some 17 hours. But we don't have...
LIN: Any idea why he was carrying these pictures of these eight women?
MILLER: Well, he wasn't carrying them. They were in a storage shed that he rented in Douglas County. We searched it. We found those photographs and we want to identify these women to make sure they are okay. We are not suggesting that any of them are dead. We just want to make sure that they are okay and we hope that the news media can help us in identifying who they are and hopefully they'll be okay.
LIN: Investigators in five states want to talk with Jeremy Bryan Jones. How many women do you think he might have killed?
MILLER: Well, I have no idea. I know he's charged with at least one and he's a very good suspect in two in Douglas County and I've heard of some more areas that are interested in him. But what evidence they have at this point, I don't know.
LIN: In taking a look at maybe some of these missing women cases, did these women have anything in common?
MILLER: We don't know. We don't know who they are. They are similar, some of them...
LIN: No, I mean women in other states, if investigators, outside of the women in these photographs, women in other states clearly are missing, investigators want to talk to them about those cases. I don't know if you've had a chance to talk to those investigators, but whether there's a pattern that is developing that may label him a serial killer.
MILLER: Again, I don't know the evidence in those cases. I don't know the description of the women in those cases. So I think it would be unfair of me to speculate. I ask that anybody that knows who these women might be come forward and give us any information that they might have on them.
LIN: All right. Jewelry found in the shed along with these pictures. What can you tell us about that?
MILLER: Well, there's some jewelry recovered. None of it has been identified or linked to any of the missing people yet.
LIN: All right. Sheriff Phil Miller, thank you very much. Douglas County, right here in the State of Georgia.
Well, at least 15 people are killed in a bus crash. That tour bus overturned early this morning in Arkansas. And onboard a group of people from the Chicago area on a weekend getaway to a Mississippi casino. CNN's Denise Belgrave has that story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DENISE BELGRAVE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's hard to tell from the wreckage that this once was a tour bus.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This morning at 6:22, my father-in-law called me to inform me the bus had flipped over.
BELGRAVE: At least 15 people died when it went off Interstate 55 and crashed in Arkansas near the Tennessee border. 30 passengers, many of them friends, were headed from Chicago to a casino in Mississippi for the weekend. The cause of the crash is being investigated. Police say one witness told them the driver may have fallen asleep since the bus seemed to just drift off the road. It was the only vehicle involved in the accident. The driver's brother, Roosevelt Walters, owns the bus. He says he inspected it on Friday and it was in good working order. A horrific accident, made worse for Walters as he waits for word on the fate of his wife, other family members and friends who were on board. His brother, who was driving, was killed. Relatives began arriving at the Walters' home when they heard the news.
DOLLY PERRY, FAMILY MEMBER: I don't know who is dead. It don't matter who is dead. I hate anybody had to die, ma'am. I don't know who it is, but I pray to God that their families just stay strong and we all just come together and hold on and pray.
BELGRAVE: The National Transportation Safety Board will join the investigation but authorities say it will likely be weeks before they know what really happened. Denise Belgrave, CNN, Atlanta.
(END VIDEOTAPE) LIN: Checking news, other news, across America now. Six people were killed in a Philadelphia house fire early this morning. Four children ranging from the ages of 2 to 12 are among the dead. Gunshots were heard prior to the fire. And police are investigating the possibility of foul play.
California's attorney general has ruled the state's constitution permits laws against gay marriage. The ruling is in response to a legal challenge asking that laws banning same-sex marriage be overturned.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BILL LOCKYER, CALIFORNIA ATTORNEY GENERAL: I am not opposed to gay marriage, however, state law imposes in me a duty to defend the state's law. And that's what's before the court.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LIN: And in Utah, a week after her body was discovered in a landfill, Lori Hacking will be buried. Hacking's husband has allegedly confessed to killing his wife. Lori Hacking disappeared back in July.
And Tropical Storm Matthew is a seesaw of sorts. It was a storm and then downgraded to a depression and now has regained storm strength. Matthew has flooded homes and roads in southeast Louisiana and in the town of Homa, there were more than 7 inches of rain over a 24-hour period. And in New Orleans International Airport, well, they had four inches of rain overnight. CNN meteorologist Orelon Sydney once again on storm watch. Orelon, this sounds way too familiar.
ORELON SIDNEY, CNN METEROLOGIST: It does. This one, you have to put tropical storm in quotes almost. Because it's not really much of an area of condensed low pressure. The definition of a tropical storm is any area with consistent low pressure, kind of a circular area with winds of 39 miles an hour or greater.
Now we do have that. Apparently when the hurricane hunters went out, they did find the central area of low pressure. It's about 210 miles south of the mouth of the Mississippi, which is probably about right there. You can't even pick it out on the satellite picture. And the reason for that is this big trough of low pressure out to the west pushing winds from the southwest to the northeast and it's just knocking the top off this thing. It's really being sheared like a sheep. It's not going to manage to gain much more strength at all and in fact may fluctuate between tropical depression and tropical storm before the whole thing finally moves inland sometime early tomorrow morning probably 6:00. And probably somewhere around the mouth of the Mississippi.
However, as you just heard, the rainfall has been and will be the problem. We continue to have lots of rain from Arkansas stretching southward all the way down to the Florida Panhandle. Not a player for the wind. Winds are only about 40 miles an hour. But we do continue to have flood watches and flood warnings up for several areas along the coast. So keep that in mind as well.
Here's some of the 24-hour totals. Now this is as of this morning. They haven't put out the reports yet for this afternoon. Lafayette, Louisiana, almost 5 1/2 inches. You can see some very heavy amounts there. Again, the wind's only 40 miles an hour and that's probably a very small limited area at best. Moving to the north-northeast at 9 miles an hour. And at 5:00 p.m. It was 210 miles southwest of the Mississippi river. I'll tell you, when Dean came into Houston in the mid-90s with winds like that I had all the doors and windows open defrosting my refrigerator. So don't panic. Watch out for the rainfall.
Folks in Bermuda, an area of low pressure off to your southeast. Not a lot of convection showing with it. There's some thunderstorms around now but we may have to watch this for potential tropical development over the next couple of days. Otherwise the Gulf Coast and southeast tomorrow, it's going to rain. Clearing out for you by tomorrow. Carol?
LIN: All right, keep you fingers crossed. And Matthew sheared like a sheep.
SYDNEY: Sheared like a sheep.
LIN: All right. Hadn't heard that when it comes to storm activity but I'll mark that in the log. Thanks, Orelon.
SYDNEY: You're welcome.
LIN: The birth of twins, triplets and more on the rise. But along with the bigger family comes some unique health concerns. Up next, a closer look at the baby blues with Dr. Sanjay Gupta.
ANNOUNCER: In the world we live in today, it's hard to imagine not being able to communicate. But that's the reality for some people with severe disabilities. Especially those who lose muscle movement over time.
MELODY MOORE, ASSISTANT PROFESSOR, GEORGIA STATE UNIVERSITY: These are people who are prisoners in their own bodies. They cannot speak. They cannot move.
ANNOUNCER: Melody Moore, an assistant professor from Georgia State University is developing technology that would interpret brain signals, allowing patients to directly control a computer or device.
MOORE: So it's called a direct brain interface. And we record brain signals from a special cap called an electric cap, and we do signal processing on the brain signals.
ANNOUNCER: Then they are sent to a computer with programs to convert the signals, helping the patients accomplish different tasks, such as communicating with others or controlling the television and turning on and off the lights. Moore's research also involves studying brain signals to see what they control and training patients on how to use them. In the future, Moore hopes to develop new imaging technology that's more accurate and less invasive.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LIN: You know it's normal because of hormonal fluctuations for most women to get the blues after giving birth. But for some, that can turn into a very serious health concern. CNN's senior medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta has this report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Just over two weeks old, and Soledad's babies get their first checkup. Their bill of health and Soledad's, fine.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All right.
GUPTA: But this is the time where for some moms, things aren't fine. In fact, far from it.
KIM BRYANT, MOTHER OF TWINS: Time to eat.
GUPTA: 26-year-old Kim Bryant knew something was wrong when several weeks after giving birth she still couldn't get up off the couch to cradle her twins.
BRYANT: I could barely hold them. I was just in a lot of pain and it was really just affecting me the fact that I couldn't really respond to my own kids.
GUPTA: Although Kim was never clinically diagnosed with depression, hers is a common story. 80 percent of women experience baby blues for a few days after birth. But for 10 percent, especially those with a history of depression, those blues can spiral into full- blown depression.
BRYANT: It's just, you know, a hormonal thing. And once you get pregnant, they are trying to leave and sort their way out.
GUPTA: And as soon as a woman delivers, those hormones change. Some say that can be even more dramatic the case of multiples. That hasn't been proven. But still, many of these women experience depression even during pregnancy. And then they face the difficult question of whether to take medication.
DR. LORI ALTSHULER, DIRECTOR MOOD DISORDERS PROGRAM, UCLA: Most women are very concerned about what effects the antidepressant would have on the developing fetus.
GUPTA: For Kim and many women, that concern remains even after the birth.
BRYANT: But still, you know, trying to breast-feed. So I didn't want any medication interfering with that.
GUPTA: Some consumer groups are opposed to pregnant women taking antidepressants, saying it could cause problems for babies in the late stages of pregnancy. But doctors argue a depressed mom could be dangerous for a baby's health.
DR. ZACHARY STOE, EMORY UNIVERSITY WOMEN & HEALTH PROJECT: Maternal depression during pregnancy is associated with low lower birth weight, higher rates of smoking and alcohol use.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LIN: Joining me now is Dr. Sanjay Gupta. Sanjay, how do you know when it's real post-partum depression, when it's clinical depression?
GUPTA: Well, you know, there's going to be a general lack of interest in things you once found enjoyable. But specifically with that post-partum depression, a specific loss of connection with the baby. This should be a time of bonding. It just isn't there. Also general lack of appetite, general lack of sleep, all those, again, are common right after pregnancy. But if it's lasting longer than two weeks, it's probably time to do something about it.
LIN: All right. See a doctor.
GUPTA: Exactly. And there's medications available for this.
LIN: But if you're breastfeeding, which is something that you brought up in your piece, how is the medication, the antidepressants, going to affect the child who is breast-feeding?
GUPTA: With regards to during pregnancy, it's not been studied that well. There are concerns about damage to the organs of the baby, damage to the development of the baby and also what is the actual delivery going to be like? Is the baby going to have jitteriness, difficulties breathing because of the antidepressants? In the post- partum period, after the baby has been delivered, which is when depression is more common, there are good medications that don't seem to affect the breast milk, thus affecting the baby.
LIN: Really.
GUPTA: Yeah.
LIN: Have there been any long-term studies on infants who had -- might have received antidepressants during the pregnancy?
GUPTA: Not during the pregnancy. That's one of three critical questions that are being looked at right now. What is the long-term development of those babies that may have received a dose of antidepressants? You have to remember as well, Carol, the antidepressants have changed a lot as well. There were pretty strong antidepressants women took for a long time while pregnant. Now you have better antidepressants that are better for mom in terms of side effects and probably better for baby as well. It's going to take some long-term studies to find out. But there are lot of doctors who stand by this one thing which is to say that a depressed mom where depression is left unchecked is probably more dangerous than not treating the depression in some way.
LIN: Right, especially to the unborn child.
GUPTA: Exactly.
LIN: All right, thank you Sanjay.
GUPTA: Thank you, Carol.
LIN: All right. Coming up -- if you have $50,000 to spare, you, too, can get your cat cloned. Up next, our Jeanne Moos shows how producing pets just got a little easier.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LIN: Feline grace and beauty are taking center stage at Madison Square Garden in New York this weekend for the annual cat show. And this year, amid much meowing and whisker shaking, cloned cats are making their debut. It's the kind of story Jeanne Moos really likes to get her claws into.
(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)
JEANNE MOOS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): There's a new wrinkle to the upcoming cat show and we don't mean this sphinx. Here, kitty, kitty. Here come the clones.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How would you feel if you were cloned?
MOOS: Ask her. She's the one whose cells were inserted into empty eggs and implanted in two surrogate mothers. The original and her two clones will be displayed behind Plexiglas at the New York Cat Show, though the cloned cat doesn't get along with the clones.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She thinks of them as interlopers.
MOOS: They are the second and third successful clones produced by a company called Genetics Savings and Clone.
LOU HAWTHORNE, CEO, GENETIC SAVINGS AND CLONE: This is Tabouli and this is Baba Ganooj.
MOOS: They are named after Middle Eastern foods that are favorites of the CEO's son. They two are almost identical to each other and the original, named Tahini. The idea is to replace a beloved pet.
MOOS (on camera): You can't bear for fluffy to be truly gone.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Then you need to grow up because death is a part of life.
MOOS (voice-over): Nevertheless, five customers are spending $50,000 each to clone cats that have since departed.
MOOS (on camera): And their clones are going to be ready by the end of the year.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don't care what cloning is. The soul cannot be duplicated.
MOOS (voice-over)": Company officials says don't expect Fluffy to be resurrected, but expect physical and even behavioral resemblances. The clones won't be the only stars of the Cat Show.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He's named Colin Powell because he was born on 9/11.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: 9/11/02
MOOS: Since he was 2004's cat of the year he got to meet his namesake in Washington.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. Secretary, this is the other Colin Powell.
SECRETARY COLIN POWELL, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: Hi, Colin, how are you.
MOOS: Colin's owners, by the way, are Democrats.
Did the real Colin Powell tell you where he likes to be rubbed?
Though cloning may rub you the wrong way, researchers are still working on dogs, which are harder to duplicate, but when it comes to making copycats, sometimes even one is more than even one is more than enough. Jeanne Moos, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
LIN: Grabbed that story by the tail.
That's all the time for this hour. Coming up next at 7 Eastern, THE CAPITAL GANG and at 8:00 Eastern on CNN PRESENTS, "John Kerry, Born to Run." His life story has played out in the public spotlight and now a personal look at the man who could be the next president.
And at 9 Eastern, Larry King. Larry's guest tonight, Martha Stewart. Hear her last interview before going to prison.
And I'm going to be back at 10:00 Eastern on our primetime show. Tonight the Scott Peterson trial. We're going to have a look at the defense's case that kicked off or is about to kick off, actually, next week. But right now Mark Shields tells us what the Gang has. Hi there, Mark.
MARK SHIELDS, CNN HOST: Hey Carol, thank you. And only 24 days until Election Day. Kerry campaign adviser Joe Lockhart joins the Gang to assess the latest round of debates and U.S. foreign policy in Iraq and Afghanistan. All that and much more right here, next on CNN.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LIN: Hi there, I'm Carol Lin. CAPITAL GANG in just a moment, but first a look at what's happening right now in the news. The Iraqi government has reached a deal to restore peace to Baghdad's Sadr City. There will be an informal ceasefire and fighters loyal
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CAROL LIN, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Carol Lin at the CNN center. CNN LIVE SATURDAY is straight ahead. But here's what's happening now in the news. The Iraqi government has reached a deal to restore peace to Baghdad's Sadr City. It calls for fighters loyal to Muqtada al Sadr to hand over their big weapons starting Monday. And Afgan President Hamid Karzai says results from today's election should be respected. 15 of his opponents are saying there was widespread fraud.
And Tropical Storm Matthew flooding parts of Louisiana today. In one town, up to 7 inches of rain fell in 24 hours.
Well, here it is. I'm Carol Lin and welcome to CNN LIVE SATURDAY. Police need your help. Who are these women? A suspected serial killer had their pictures. I'm going to talk to the sheriff who is trying to find out if these women are dead or alive.
And ride, Sally Ride. The first American woman in space and the first U.S. woman to walk in space joins me live tonight for a look forward and back at 20 years of women in outer space.
But right now we begin this hour with the race for the White House. George Bush and John Kerry are both talking tough and claiming victory today after last night's presidential debate. And they've wasted no time getting back on the campaign trail. President Bush is stumping in Missouri, Iowa and Minnesota today, while Senator Kerry is wooing voters in Ohio and Florida. Our Candy Crowley is traveling with the Kerry campaign.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CANDY CROWLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Bushels of apples, bails of hay, a big crowd and politicians. It is Americana at its best and a great place to begin the final bid for the middle class.
SENATOR JOHN KERRY, PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It all boils down to this. 24 days from now the American dream is on the ballot. And we have to decide. We have to decide, Ohio.
CROWLEY: Even if this setting in the must-win State of Ohio did not speak of an oncoming election, the urgency of the rhetoric would.
KERRY: America is made for this moment, but this president and this administration are not. America needs new leadership, not a single-minded leader, but a clear-headed leader. Not a headstrong leader, but a well reasoned leader. The kind of leadership that American hearts are willing to follow.
CROWLEY: Following the St. Louis debate, John Kerry dropped into Ohio to offer up his own post-game analysis -- to wit he showed them in the Show Me State.
KERRY: So did you watch that debate last night? 2-0 and we're moving on to the third. And I look forward to it.
CROWLEY: From the top down, this is a campaign oozing confidence beyond the standard "we're on the road to victory" stuff. Kerry's strategists, it happens, also believe he won the debate, making this the first time in history where a challenger has twice beaten an incumbent president in the debates. The campaign also cites a post- debate night poll showing he pool of support with swing voters and independents and gain in likeablity, something the campaign intends to stoke one way or another.
KERRY: I thought the President was going to attack Charlie Gibson.
CROWLEY (on camera): Inside the campaign, they are considerably more blunt calling George Bush's refusal to admit mistakes close to pigheadedness. You can expect over the next several days that John Kerry will be happy to outline the mistakes he thinks George Bush has made. Candy Crowley, CNN, Elyria, Ohio.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LIN: Ah, but President Bush is taking aim at the voting record of his opponent, Senator John Kerry, again today. Our White House correspondent Suzanne Malveaux is traveling with the President and joins me from Chanhassen, Minnesota -- Suzanne.
SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN CORRRESPONDENT: Carol, it's his 13th visit to Minnesota. This is a state that he lost by just 2 1/2 percentage points back in 2000. But the Bush campaign believes it is very much in play, that especially after the President's performance in the debate last night. Bush aides saying, of course, that they believe this puts the President very much back in the game.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH, U.S. PRESIDENT: He can run, but he cannot hide.
MALVEAUX (voice-over): A new campaign line with a distinctly familiar ring. Once a warning often directed at Osama bin Laden and the terrorists, now at his opponent, Senator John Kerry.
BUSH: Several of the statements last night simply don't pass the credibility test. With a straight face he said, "I have only had one position on Iraq." I could barely contain myself. He must think we've been on another planet...
...and he tries to tell us he's had only one position. He can run, but he cannot hide. MALVEAUX: Hide from his 20-year voting record in the Senate, that is. Heading into the final weeks of the campaign, the President's strategy is to use Kerry's record as someone who will say one thing but do another.
BUSH: And then Senator Kerry was asked to look into the camera and promise he'd not raise taxes for anyone that earns less than $200,000 a year. The problem is, to keep that promise, he would have to break almost all of his other ones.
MALVEAUX: At the same time, the President is playing up his own economic policies in preparation for Wednesday's final debate, which will focus on domestic issues like employment.
BUSH: I've got a plan to keep our economy moving forward, to make sure jobs are here, to make sure people can find work. America must be the best place in the world to do business.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MALVEAUX (on-camera): Now, another key component of the President's strategy is to deliver that message in states he barely lost back in 2000, including Iowa, New Mexico, Oregon and here in Minnesota. Carol?
LIN: All right. Thanks very much, Suzanne.
Well, thanks to modern technology and frankly dogged determination, CNN can take a flash poll of opinions right after last night's debate. Now, remember, only people who watched the debate were surveyed and we learned that Kerry won the debate but by only 2 percentage points, 47 to 45 percent as to who did a better job in that debate. An ABC News poll looks at it a little bit differently. 44 percent of those surveyed say John Kerry won the debate compared to 41 percent who said it was Bush. 13 percent say it was a tie.
And win, lose or draw, our political editor, John Mercurio in Washington is reviewing the tapes of last night's face-off. John, when you take a look at the polls, quick question for you. Why do you think President Bush appears to be keeping a lot of his ground and then John Kerry isn't dramatically gaining more if, if in both, after the first debate and the second debate, a slim majority of people believe that John Kerry did a better job debating.
JOHN MERCURIO, CNN POLITICAL EDITOR: Well, I don't think it's any secret. I mean, this whole election has been extremely close. It's been essentially a statistical tie for nine out of the past 10 months of the polling that's been done. I mean, the electorate that we are looking at, that we're talking to that the campaign is following is extremely divided. I think John Kerry, you have to remember, of course, that they are essentially stuck in a dead heat right now. Kerry had been trailing by as much as 8 to 12 points following the Republican convention in late August. So there has been a lot of movement, actually, towards Kerry since the first debate. President Bush might be holding on to a lead. It's statistically insignificant though, at this point. LIN: Very different styles we saw last night between the two candidates. I want to show our viewers a moment with President Bush, a moment that frankly he wasn't willing to wait for the moderator in order for President Bush to make his point.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CHARLIE GIBSON, ABC NEWS: Mr. President, let's extend for a minute...
BUSH: Wait a second. I've got to answer this.
GIBSON: Exactly. And with reservists being held on duty, some soldiers...
BUSH: Let me answer what he just said about....
GIBSON: Well, I wanted to get into the issue of...
BUSH: You tell Tony Blair we're going alone. Tell Tony Blair we're going alone. Tell Serbio(sic) Berlusconi we're going alone...
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LIN: Some might say the President lost his temper there. Others might say that he was standing strong on his principles. How did that play with the viewers?
MERCURIO: I think that was one of the most interesting parts of the debate. Because each campaign took that bite and turned it into something completely different. The Kerry campaign took that bite and said, look, this man is unbalanced, he loses his temper, he has no control over his thoughts or his emotions.
The Bush campaign loved that moment. They said, look, this is a man with passion. He was upset with the way that Kerry had criticized the U.S. coalition -- the U.S.-led coalition in Iraq and he needed to get his point across. I think the other thing the Bush campaign loved was something the President has been doing a lot during these debates, which is discussing his relationships with foreign leaders, with Silvio Berlusconi, the head of Italy and Tony Blair, the prrime minister of England. It's an attempt, I think, on the part of the President to appear more statesman-like. More internationally focused.
LIN: They didn't -- the Bush campaign didn't mind that President Bush mispronounced Berlusconi's name?
MERCURIO: I didn't ask them that. I didn't ask them that. I don't know.
LIN: OK, all right. Noted on the late-night talk shows.
MERCURIO: I didn't like the fact that he said "Internets," though. I hear they weren't too pleased with that. LIN: All right. John Kerry had a moment as well. Frankly, great questions by the people in the audience. Here's one we want to share.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KERRY: Right into the camera, yes. I am not going to raise taxes. I have a tax cut...
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LIN: This a moment after one of the people in the audience challenged John Kerry to look right in the camera and promise that he was not going to raise taxes. A la a reminder of senior George Bush and how he had to eat those words later on.
MERCURIO: Absolutely. Well, as you just saw on Suzanne Malveaux's package, the Bush campaign is already taking that line and turning it against Senator Kerry saying, look, if he keeps this promise, which he made last night in front of the camera, he's going to have to break all of his other promises.
I think Senator Kerry actually handled that very well. He was asked a question, he responded directly to it. I think that was one of the questions that the Kerry campaign today is pointing to to say, look, we appeal to swing voters. President Bush was appealing to his base, to his conservative base with answers to questions on stem cell research, on abortion. But I think the Kerry campaign was happy because it appealed to people who I think are a little bit concerned by the Bush campaign's criticism of Senator Kerry as a tax and spend liberal.
LIN: A lot at stake in the debate coming up next Wednesday.
MERCURIO: Absolutely. I think what has to happen next week, essentially, is that the president needs to, you know, sort of remind Americans who have lost faith in the past week because of his performance last week in Miami that he can be a strong leader, that he is the commander in chief and can lead the war on terror. Senator Kerry needs to seal the deal. He needs to close the deal. He hasn't totally done that yet.
LIN: Right. We'll see what happens. Thanks very much, John.
MERCURIO: Thank you.
LIN: A quick reminder for our viewers. We are going to be covering that third debate -- third and final debate this Wednesday in Arizona before, during and after. Our in-depth coverage of the Tempe match-up begins at 7:00 p.m. Eastern.
In the meantime in Afghanistan, millions of voters turned out for the country's first ever direct presidential election there. But what can you make of an election where people might have voted more than once? CNN's chief international correspondent Christiane Amanpour has more from the capital, Kabul. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The day dawned on a sight Afghanistan has never before seen. At this one polling station alone, thousands of men lining up to cast their first vote for president. And in separate lines, the women, vastly outnumbered, but nevertheless there.
"I never thought I'd have the right to vote," says Zaidahn(ph), "but you see, we left our children and our chores at home and came to elect our president." Inside, a small boy helps his blind old grandmother to the booth. She gets a hand dipping her thumb in ink to prevent fraud. But a couple of hours later, this ink brought the whole process to a halt. Agents of opposition candidates declared it easily washed off.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I have cast my vote, but the ink was removable.
AMANPOUR: And for the rest of the day, the voting was thrown into turmoil. A flak jacketed UN worker brought a fresh batch of ink. But by now, opposition candidates, many of them unpopular former warlords, had banded together, telling the press they wanted fresh elections and that a victory by front-runner, transitional President Hamid Karzai would not be legitimate. And they issued threats.
AHMADSHAH AHMADZAI: We will tell him OK, go ahead and run this country. But we don't obey him, if he doesn't obey him -- the whole nation doesn't obey him, how he can run the government?
AMANPOUR (on camera): By early afternoon, UN organizers were in crisis talks with the opposition candidates, trying, as one official told us, to save the day. Meantime, these women and thousands of men kept lining up, eager to vote, not knowing whether their first ever election would be a success or would end up being disputed. In the end, the UN declared the voting would proceed and concerns would be addressed later. They said turnout was high nationwide, which itself presented another problem.
(voice-over) "I came this morning and they told us the ink was fake, go home. So I came back again two hours ago. I left my two children at home, and now they say they've run out of ballot papers." But on this day, all sorts of feelings bubbled over.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I am so happy. I should say I am very, very happy because now we -- I am sure we will have a good government in the future.
AMANPOUR: And the threat of violence that kept international observers away never materialized. Besides, it was never going to keep the voters away. Christiane Amanpour, CNN, Kabul, Afghanistan.
LIN: Well, in Iraq, some are calling it a breakthrough deal. Still to come tonight, rebel cleric Muqtada al Sadr says he's ready to cooperate. Will it help bring peace to Baghdad? Plus, the soldiers' story. Their job is not to fight the war but to tell it. Up next we're going to follow two soldiers as they document history.
And later, he's allegedly killed one woman. Two others are dead. Now investigators worry there could be even more victims.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LIN: News from around the world right now. In Gaza, separate Israeli attacks left eight Palestinians dead today. For 10 days, Israel has been conducting a major military operation in Gaza to stop Palestinian militants from firing rockets into Israel.
And in Egypt, a rising death toll. Egyptian officials say at least 34 people are dead in Thursday's attacks on a resort in Taba. They say nine of the dead are Egyptians, five are Israelis and 20 still unidentified. Israel says al Qaeda is likely behind the bombings. Egypt says it is too early to say.
And in London and Liverpool, a moment of silence. A day of mourning was held for murdered British hostage Kenneth Bigley. The 62-year-old engineer was beheaded by his captors in Iraq and U.S. officials tell CNN that Bigley was killed after he tried to escape, possibly with the help of one of his captors.
And somewhere in the Persian Gulf, an unusual get-together. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld met 18 of his counterparts on an American aircraft carrier on sea to talk about the war on terror. They met in a cramped room below deck. Rumsfeld then heads to Europe for a NATO meeting.
Well, the 311th Military Detachment based out of Queens, New York is made up of only three soldiers and like others in the army they can be called to serve in war zones like Iraq or Afghanistan. But it's not to fight. CNN's Alina Cho explains in our special segment "On the Front Lines."
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ALINA CHO, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): On the battlefields of Iraq and Afghanistan, American soldiers are fighting a war on terror. At home, the 311th Military History Detachment is documenting it.
GRANT GOLDSMITH, U.S. ARMY HISTORIAN: Today is Friday, October 8th, 2004. This is the oral history of Lieutenant Colonel Thomas.
CHO: Colonel Dan Thomas is back from a four-month tour in Afghanistan.
LTC DAN THOMAS, U.S. ARMY: When you look at the area, we're kind of in a central area right here.
CHO: He is eager to tell his story.
THOMAS: Every deal is Monday. Everything meal is a smorgasbord, as they call it.
CHO: Major Grant Goldsmith is listening. A soldier himself, Goldsmith's only job now is to record combat operations through the eyes of others. Armed with a camera, tape recorder, pen and paper, Goldsmith asks questions about the climate...
THOMAS: Very hot, very dry.
CHO: ...bumps in the road.
THOMAS: You are out there in the middle of nowhere. It looks like the moon but you just do what you have to do.
CHO: ...and how families cope with having loved ones overseas.
THOMAS: Send a lot of cookies, a lot of food, a lot of goodies. It keeps the morale up.
CHO: The military history detachment was formed during World War II. After September 11th, the Global War On Terrorism History Project was born. Major Goldsmith signed up, interviewing soldiers like Colonel Thomas.
THOMAS: Something unique that you and other individuals have done that not a lot of people have done or will do.
CHO: The information is sent to Washington and becomes part of the military record.
GOLDSMITH: Every story is an important story, even if you are hearing the same story for the 15th time. There's a different perspective from a different view of the battle.
CHO: Sergeant Christina Steiner used to collect data for the 311th Military Detachment.
SFC CHRISTINA STEINER, U.S. MILITARY: This flag is from the former World Trade Center site.
CHO: She looked through artifacts and poured through interviews and wrote a book about the role of army reservists after 9/11. Major Goldsmith is continuing that work.
(on camera) Could be in the history books some day.
GOLDSMITH: Could be.
CHO (voice-over): Making sure today's war becomes tomorrow's story. Alina Cho, CNN, Philadelphia.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LIN: Almost 20 years ago, history was made. And that's when astronaut Kathy Sullivan became the first American woman to walk in space. And Sally Ride, the first U.S. woman in space. Both join me live next. And this...
KIM BRYANT, MOTHER OF TWINS (video clip): I was just in a lot of pain. And it was really just affecting me, the fact that I couldn't really respond to my own kids.
LIN: Baby blues. Straight ahead, a look at postpartum depression in mothers with multiples.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KATHY SULLIVAN, ASTRONAUT: We had a super flight. We enjoyed every bit of it. You just can't beat that experience and I'm just looking forward to getting back in line and trying a second time.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LIN: Well, it was Neil Armstrong who said "One small step for man, one giant leap for mankind," as he became the first man to walk on the moon back in 1969. But there you saw her, Kathy Sullivan. It would take almost 15 more years for American women to join the ranks of space explorers. But Sally Ride made history in 1983, becoming the first American woman in space. And Kathy Sullivan followed her with her walk in space. And they are with me tonight on this 20th anniversary. Ladies, can you believe it's been 20 years?
SALLY RIDE, FORMER ASTRONAUT: No!
LIN: Does it feel like yesterday?
Sally, I remember when you were on the cover of "People" magazine and so much to-do about being the first woman in space(sic). And there I was growing up and you said something that really resonated with me. You said women will have truly made it in this world when you are not on the cover of "People" magazine doing something frankly what you have trained your whole life to do.
RIDE: Yeah, that's exactly right. I remember that. And we're getting closer and closer to that time, I think. Now it's very rare for the space shuttle to launch without a woman onboard. There's a woman on almost every crew. Two women on many crews.
LIN: Did you guys know each other back in the '80s when you were coming up through the ranks?
KATHY SULLIVAN, FORMER ASTRONAUT: Well, interesting you should ask that question. Not in the '80s, but we discovered when we met in Houston in 1978 reporting aboard that we had been at the same elementary school for a brief window of first grade just as my family moved out to California.
LIN: Seriously?
SULLIVAN: Yeah. First grade and then almost exactly 20 years later reporting to NASA together.
LIN: What a coincidence.
RIDE: And we did come in in the same astronaut class so we got to know each other real well before my flight and before our flight together in 1984, 20 years ago.
LIN: So how much do you think it's changed for women who are coming through the ranks? I mean, you guys probably the only ones in your mechanical engineering class I would hazard to guess?
SULLIVAN: We were typically the only ones. And in the physical sciences and engineering, the numbers are still fairly low. They are slowly increasing and we are beginning to see some exciting things like women as deans of the engineering faculty, a mutual friend of ours, Maria Zuber at MIT. Heading major engineering schools, again MIT. So it's opening out and it doesn't ask as much of you to believe that you can go somewhere that no one who looks like you has ever been before.
LIN: Since it is more brains than braun, do you think women would have an easier time coming through the ranks in science, Sally?
RIDE: Well, I don't know. I think that there's certainly no obstacles to women coming up the ranks in science and we're seeing a lot more of them making it -- not only to the top of the scientific fields, but as Kathy said to presidents of major universities, MIT being one of the latest to have a woman be the head of it. So I think that you are just going to see the numbers continue to increase. We're still moving towards 50 percent, not quite there yet, but we will be eventually.
LIN: Yep, and a lot has been done in 20 years. Kathy, you are now the CEO of the Center of Science and Industry and making milestones yourself. I'm wondering, what is your favorite memory as you look back on your career here and what was it like? What did it feel like? Do you remember that sensation of walking in space?
SULLIVAN: Well, most of the really dramatic sensations of a space flight you're not going to forget. The accelerations of liftoff, the really amazing feelings of re-entry and a spacewalk is sort of like being in 0 g inside the spacecraft except there's no frame around your view. Probably the favorite personal memory for me is hanging off the rail of an orbiter almost like you'd hang off a subway strap in a train and looking down past my feet and seeing Venezuela slipping between my boots.
LIN: Oh my gosh.
SULLIVAN: It's pretty fun.
LIN: Can anything top that experience? All right. Where do you think the space program is headed? I mean, how long do you think before they are going to be commercial flights to space? You guys were probably watching the Spaceship One project as the $10 million X prize was given out. SULLIVAN: It's a great step forward. A very exciting one.
RIDE: Yeah, it really is. And I think it's a very cool looking spaceship and it's a real milestone that they were able to achieve what they did and win the prize. I think it's going to be still a few years, of course, before you can buy your ticket to fly into space, but Kathy and I are already pooling our money to be able to buy a ticket. But I think that day is something and whether it's a decade away, you know, 12 years, 15 years, who knows. But it's coming and it's coming in our lifetime.
LIN: And it's coming so the grandkids will maybe be vacationing on the moon. Who knows?
SULLIVAN: They'll have a great time.
LIN: All right. Thanks so much, Kathy Sullivan and Sally Ride. A privilege to speak to both of you.
RIDE: Thank you.
SULLIVAN: Great being with you, Carol.
LIN: Well, he's locked up in Alabama charged with murder. And now officials in at least three other states want to know if this man has killed even more women.
Plus, could the South be in for another soaking? Tropical Storm Matthew sets its sights on Louisiana. We're going to have its track.
And later -- cloned cats. Forget about nine lives. These kittens could have even more.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LIN: Welcome back. And here's a quick look at what's happening right now in the news. John Kerry hit the campaign trail after declaring himself the winner of last night's debate. Today he's campaigning in the battleground states of Ohio and Florida.
And after speaking at a rally in St. Louis this morning, President Bush left for appearances in other parts of Missouri, as well as Iowa and Minnesota. And in Australia, the polls have closed and conservative Prime Minister John Howard has been elected to a fourth term. His win came despite widespread anger at his decision to send troops to Iraq last year. President Bush was quick to praise the victory.
And also in Britain, they paused for a moment of silence today to honor slain British hostage Kenneth Bigley. Bigley was beheaded after being held hostage in Iraq for three weeks. U.S. officials believe he was killed after he tried to escape.
And Tropical Storm Matthew flooded roads and homes in southeast Louisiana after coming ashore earlier today. More than 7 inches of rain fell in parts of the Mississippi Delta. We're going to have more on that storm in just a moment.
But right now a chilling discovery in the storage locker of a suspected serial killer. Pictures of eight women, two now have come forward after their pictures were posted on the Internet and aired on television. But now police are hoping to hear from the other six. CNN's Sara Dorsey has that story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SARAH DORSEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): 31-year-old Jeremy Jones, shown here handcuffed and shackled, is charged in Mobile, Alabama, with the murder of Lisa Nichols. Now investigators in several states believe they could be looking at a serial killer.
JOHN TYSON, JR. MOBILE COUNTY DA: I know that we have the sheriff's office who has received inquiries from Douglasville, Georgia, Escambia County, Alabama, Tuscaloosa County, Alabama, Oklahoma, and I think California and Arizona.
DORSEY: Georgia authorities searched an Atlanta suburb storage shed belonging to Jones. They say they found items possibly linking him to the murder of his former neighbor, 16-year-old Amanda Greenwell. Deputies also suspect he's involved in the 2002 slaying of Tina Mayberry. Photographs of eight unidentified women were also found. Authorities appealed to the public for information. Two of them came forward, one telling detectives that she knew Jones. Authorities are still hoping to hear from the other six. Jones remains in custody in Alabama and in a hearing on Thursday his attorney tried to block interested law enforcement agencies from talking to his client.
HABIB YAZDI, JEREMY JONES'S ATTORNEY: From the conversation we have I realize he's not in the right mind to talk to law enforcement agencies without the presence of a lawyer.
DORSEY: In the meantime, Amanda Greenwell's family waits for answers.
RICHARD GREENWELL, AMANDA GREENWELL'S FATHER: They've taken on Amanda's case as if she were their own child. They haven't given up. They won't give up until -- until this is settled.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DORSEY (on camera): Mobile County isn't giving many details about those two women who came forward but is stressing how important it is they hear from the other six. This week Alabama investigators plan to travel to some of the other states that have unsolved homicide cases to see if, in fact, Jones could have been involved there. One of those is Oklahoma and that is his home state.
LIN: Wow. All right. It must be agonizing for people who have missing daughters.
DORSEY: It absolutely is. So many people -- two especially here in Georgia are just waiting to see if he's going to be charged for their crimes.
LIN: All right. Let's see if he's talking. Thanks, very much, Sarah.
DORSEY: Thank you.
LIN: In the meantime, Sarah was just talking about police in Georgia are also appealing to the public to help identify the women in those pictures. Douglas County sheriff Phil Miller says investigators don't know if these women are still alive. He joins us now by telephone to tell us where the investigation is standing. Sheriff, good to have you.
SHERIFF PHIL MILLER, DOUGLAS COUNTY SHERIFF'S OFFICE (on telephone): Good to be here.
LIN: Do you know if the suspect is talking?
MILLER: Well, he's talking. He has not told us who these women are and he hasn't told us everything that we need to know, but he is talking.
LIN: What is he talking about then?
MILLER: Well, he's talking about the case and the things that happened, the case that occurred in Mobile, Alabama. He's talking. He's talked to us some 17 hours. But we don't have...
LIN: Any idea why he was carrying these pictures of these eight women?
MILLER: Well, he wasn't carrying them. They were in a storage shed that he rented in Douglas County. We searched it. We found those photographs and we want to identify these women to make sure they are okay. We are not suggesting that any of them are dead. We just want to make sure that they are okay and we hope that the news media can help us in identifying who they are and hopefully they'll be okay.
LIN: Investigators in five states want to talk with Jeremy Bryan Jones. How many women do you think he might have killed?
MILLER: Well, I have no idea. I know he's charged with at least one and he's a very good suspect in two in Douglas County and I've heard of some more areas that are interested in him. But what evidence they have at this point, I don't know.
LIN: In taking a look at maybe some of these missing women cases, did these women have anything in common?
MILLER: We don't know. We don't know who they are. They are similar, some of them...
LIN: No, I mean women in other states, if investigators, outside of the women in these photographs, women in other states clearly are missing, investigators want to talk to them about those cases. I don't know if you've had a chance to talk to those investigators, but whether there's a pattern that is developing that may label him a serial killer.
MILLER: Again, I don't know the evidence in those cases. I don't know the description of the women in those cases. So I think it would be unfair of me to speculate. I ask that anybody that knows who these women might be come forward and give us any information that they might have on them.
LIN: All right. Jewelry found in the shed along with these pictures. What can you tell us about that?
MILLER: Well, there's some jewelry recovered. None of it has been identified or linked to any of the missing people yet.
LIN: All right. Sheriff Phil Miller, thank you very much. Douglas County, right here in the State of Georgia.
Well, at least 15 people are killed in a bus crash. That tour bus overturned early this morning in Arkansas. And onboard a group of people from the Chicago area on a weekend getaway to a Mississippi casino. CNN's Denise Belgrave has that story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DENISE BELGRAVE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's hard to tell from the wreckage that this once was a tour bus.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This morning at 6:22, my father-in-law called me to inform me the bus had flipped over.
BELGRAVE: At least 15 people died when it went off Interstate 55 and crashed in Arkansas near the Tennessee border. 30 passengers, many of them friends, were headed from Chicago to a casino in Mississippi for the weekend. The cause of the crash is being investigated. Police say one witness told them the driver may have fallen asleep since the bus seemed to just drift off the road. It was the only vehicle involved in the accident. The driver's brother, Roosevelt Walters, owns the bus. He says he inspected it on Friday and it was in good working order. A horrific accident, made worse for Walters as he waits for word on the fate of his wife, other family members and friends who were on board. His brother, who was driving, was killed. Relatives began arriving at the Walters' home when they heard the news.
DOLLY PERRY, FAMILY MEMBER: I don't know who is dead. It don't matter who is dead. I hate anybody had to die, ma'am. I don't know who it is, but I pray to God that their families just stay strong and we all just come together and hold on and pray.
BELGRAVE: The National Transportation Safety Board will join the investigation but authorities say it will likely be weeks before they know what really happened. Denise Belgrave, CNN, Atlanta.
(END VIDEOTAPE) LIN: Checking news, other news, across America now. Six people were killed in a Philadelphia house fire early this morning. Four children ranging from the ages of 2 to 12 are among the dead. Gunshots were heard prior to the fire. And police are investigating the possibility of foul play.
California's attorney general has ruled the state's constitution permits laws against gay marriage. The ruling is in response to a legal challenge asking that laws banning same-sex marriage be overturned.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BILL LOCKYER, CALIFORNIA ATTORNEY GENERAL: I am not opposed to gay marriage, however, state law imposes in me a duty to defend the state's law. And that's what's before the court.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LIN: And in Utah, a week after her body was discovered in a landfill, Lori Hacking will be buried. Hacking's husband has allegedly confessed to killing his wife. Lori Hacking disappeared back in July.
And Tropical Storm Matthew is a seesaw of sorts. It was a storm and then downgraded to a depression and now has regained storm strength. Matthew has flooded homes and roads in southeast Louisiana and in the town of Homa, there were more than 7 inches of rain over a 24-hour period. And in New Orleans International Airport, well, they had four inches of rain overnight. CNN meteorologist Orelon Sydney once again on storm watch. Orelon, this sounds way too familiar.
ORELON SIDNEY, CNN METEROLOGIST: It does. This one, you have to put tropical storm in quotes almost. Because it's not really much of an area of condensed low pressure. The definition of a tropical storm is any area with consistent low pressure, kind of a circular area with winds of 39 miles an hour or greater.
Now we do have that. Apparently when the hurricane hunters went out, they did find the central area of low pressure. It's about 210 miles south of the mouth of the Mississippi, which is probably about right there. You can't even pick it out on the satellite picture. And the reason for that is this big trough of low pressure out to the west pushing winds from the southwest to the northeast and it's just knocking the top off this thing. It's really being sheared like a sheep. It's not going to manage to gain much more strength at all and in fact may fluctuate between tropical depression and tropical storm before the whole thing finally moves inland sometime early tomorrow morning probably 6:00. And probably somewhere around the mouth of the Mississippi.
However, as you just heard, the rainfall has been and will be the problem. We continue to have lots of rain from Arkansas stretching southward all the way down to the Florida Panhandle. Not a player for the wind. Winds are only about 40 miles an hour. But we do continue to have flood watches and flood warnings up for several areas along the coast. So keep that in mind as well.
Here's some of the 24-hour totals. Now this is as of this morning. They haven't put out the reports yet for this afternoon. Lafayette, Louisiana, almost 5 1/2 inches. You can see some very heavy amounts there. Again, the wind's only 40 miles an hour and that's probably a very small limited area at best. Moving to the north-northeast at 9 miles an hour. And at 5:00 p.m. It was 210 miles southwest of the Mississippi river. I'll tell you, when Dean came into Houston in the mid-90s with winds like that I had all the doors and windows open defrosting my refrigerator. So don't panic. Watch out for the rainfall.
Folks in Bermuda, an area of low pressure off to your southeast. Not a lot of convection showing with it. There's some thunderstorms around now but we may have to watch this for potential tropical development over the next couple of days. Otherwise the Gulf Coast and southeast tomorrow, it's going to rain. Clearing out for you by tomorrow. Carol?
LIN: All right, keep you fingers crossed. And Matthew sheared like a sheep.
SYDNEY: Sheared like a sheep.
LIN: All right. Hadn't heard that when it comes to storm activity but I'll mark that in the log. Thanks, Orelon.
SYDNEY: You're welcome.
LIN: The birth of twins, triplets and more on the rise. But along with the bigger family comes some unique health concerns. Up next, a closer look at the baby blues with Dr. Sanjay Gupta.
ANNOUNCER: In the world we live in today, it's hard to imagine not being able to communicate. But that's the reality for some people with severe disabilities. Especially those who lose muscle movement over time.
MELODY MOORE, ASSISTANT PROFESSOR, GEORGIA STATE UNIVERSITY: These are people who are prisoners in their own bodies. They cannot speak. They cannot move.
ANNOUNCER: Melody Moore, an assistant professor from Georgia State University is developing technology that would interpret brain signals, allowing patients to directly control a computer or device.
MOORE: So it's called a direct brain interface. And we record brain signals from a special cap called an electric cap, and we do signal processing on the brain signals.
ANNOUNCER: Then they are sent to a computer with programs to convert the signals, helping the patients accomplish different tasks, such as communicating with others or controlling the television and turning on and off the lights. Moore's research also involves studying brain signals to see what they control and training patients on how to use them. In the future, Moore hopes to develop new imaging technology that's more accurate and less invasive.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LIN: You know it's normal because of hormonal fluctuations for most women to get the blues after giving birth. But for some, that can turn into a very serious health concern. CNN's senior medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta has this report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Just over two weeks old, and Soledad's babies get their first checkup. Their bill of health and Soledad's, fine.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All right.
GUPTA: But this is the time where for some moms, things aren't fine. In fact, far from it.
KIM BRYANT, MOTHER OF TWINS: Time to eat.
GUPTA: 26-year-old Kim Bryant knew something was wrong when several weeks after giving birth she still couldn't get up off the couch to cradle her twins.
BRYANT: I could barely hold them. I was just in a lot of pain and it was really just affecting me the fact that I couldn't really respond to my own kids.
GUPTA: Although Kim was never clinically diagnosed with depression, hers is a common story. 80 percent of women experience baby blues for a few days after birth. But for 10 percent, especially those with a history of depression, those blues can spiral into full- blown depression.
BRYANT: It's just, you know, a hormonal thing. And once you get pregnant, they are trying to leave and sort their way out.
GUPTA: And as soon as a woman delivers, those hormones change. Some say that can be even more dramatic the case of multiples. That hasn't been proven. But still, many of these women experience depression even during pregnancy. And then they face the difficult question of whether to take medication.
DR. LORI ALTSHULER, DIRECTOR MOOD DISORDERS PROGRAM, UCLA: Most women are very concerned about what effects the antidepressant would have on the developing fetus.
GUPTA: For Kim and many women, that concern remains even after the birth.
BRYANT: But still, you know, trying to breast-feed. So I didn't want any medication interfering with that.
GUPTA: Some consumer groups are opposed to pregnant women taking antidepressants, saying it could cause problems for babies in the late stages of pregnancy. But doctors argue a depressed mom could be dangerous for a baby's health.
DR. ZACHARY STOE, EMORY UNIVERSITY WOMEN & HEALTH PROJECT: Maternal depression during pregnancy is associated with low lower birth weight, higher rates of smoking and alcohol use.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LIN: Joining me now is Dr. Sanjay Gupta. Sanjay, how do you know when it's real post-partum depression, when it's clinical depression?
GUPTA: Well, you know, there's going to be a general lack of interest in things you once found enjoyable. But specifically with that post-partum depression, a specific loss of connection with the baby. This should be a time of bonding. It just isn't there. Also general lack of appetite, general lack of sleep, all those, again, are common right after pregnancy. But if it's lasting longer than two weeks, it's probably time to do something about it.
LIN: All right. See a doctor.
GUPTA: Exactly. And there's medications available for this.
LIN: But if you're breastfeeding, which is something that you brought up in your piece, how is the medication, the antidepressants, going to affect the child who is breast-feeding?
GUPTA: With regards to during pregnancy, it's not been studied that well. There are concerns about damage to the organs of the baby, damage to the development of the baby and also what is the actual delivery going to be like? Is the baby going to have jitteriness, difficulties breathing because of the antidepressants? In the post- partum period, after the baby has been delivered, which is when depression is more common, there are good medications that don't seem to affect the breast milk, thus affecting the baby.
LIN: Really.
GUPTA: Yeah.
LIN: Have there been any long-term studies on infants who had -- might have received antidepressants during the pregnancy?
GUPTA: Not during the pregnancy. That's one of three critical questions that are being looked at right now. What is the long-term development of those babies that may have received a dose of antidepressants? You have to remember as well, Carol, the antidepressants have changed a lot as well. There were pretty strong antidepressants women took for a long time while pregnant. Now you have better antidepressants that are better for mom in terms of side effects and probably better for baby as well. It's going to take some long-term studies to find out. But there are lot of doctors who stand by this one thing which is to say that a depressed mom where depression is left unchecked is probably more dangerous than not treating the depression in some way.
LIN: Right, especially to the unborn child.
GUPTA: Exactly.
LIN: All right, thank you Sanjay.
GUPTA: Thank you, Carol.
LIN: All right. Coming up -- if you have $50,000 to spare, you, too, can get your cat cloned. Up next, our Jeanne Moos shows how producing pets just got a little easier.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LIN: Feline grace and beauty are taking center stage at Madison Square Garden in New York this weekend for the annual cat show. And this year, amid much meowing and whisker shaking, cloned cats are making their debut. It's the kind of story Jeanne Moos really likes to get her claws into.
(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)
JEANNE MOOS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): There's a new wrinkle to the upcoming cat show and we don't mean this sphinx. Here, kitty, kitty. Here come the clones.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How would you feel if you were cloned?
MOOS: Ask her. She's the one whose cells were inserted into empty eggs and implanted in two surrogate mothers. The original and her two clones will be displayed behind Plexiglas at the New York Cat Show, though the cloned cat doesn't get along with the clones.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She thinks of them as interlopers.
MOOS: They are the second and third successful clones produced by a company called Genetics Savings and Clone.
LOU HAWTHORNE, CEO, GENETIC SAVINGS AND CLONE: This is Tabouli and this is Baba Ganooj.
MOOS: They are named after Middle Eastern foods that are favorites of the CEO's son. They two are almost identical to each other and the original, named Tahini. The idea is to replace a beloved pet.
MOOS (on camera): You can't bear for fluffy to be truly gone.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Then you need to grow up because death is a part of life.
MOOS (voice-over): Nevertheless, five customers are spending $50,000 each to clone cats that have since departed.
MOOS (on camera): And their clones are going to be ready by the end of the year.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don't care what cloning is. The soul cannot be duplicated.
MOOS (voice-over)": Company officials says don't expect Fluffy to be resurrected, but expect physical and even behavioral resemblances. The clones won't be the only stars of the Cat Show.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He's named Colin Powell because he was born on 9/11.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: 9/11/02
MOOS: Since he was 2004's cat of the year he got to meet his namesake in Washington.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. Secretary, this is the other Colin Powell.
SECRETARY COLIN POWELL, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: Hi, Colin, how are you.
MOOS: Colin's owners, by the way, are Democrats.
Did the real Colin Powell tell you where he likes to be rubbed?
Though cloning may rub you the wrong way, researchers are still working on dogs, which are harder to duplicate, but when it comes to making copycats, sometimes even one is more than even one is more than enough. Jeanne Moos, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
LIN: Grabbed that story by the tail.
That's all the time for this hour. Coming up next at 7 Eastern, THE CAPITAL GANG and at 8:00 Eastern on CNN PRESENTS, "John Kerry, Born to Run." His life story has played out in the public spotlight and now a personal look at the man who could be the next president.
And at 9 Eastern, Larry King. Larry's guest tonight, Martha Stewart. Hear her last interview before going to prison.
And I'm going to be back at 10:00 Eastern on our primetime show. Tonight the Scott Peterson trial. We're going to have a look at the defense's case that kicked off or is about to kick off, actually, next week. But right now Mark Shields tells us what the Gang has. Hi there, Mark.
MARK SHIELDS, CNN HOST: Hey Carol, thank you. And only 24 days until Election Day. Kerry campaign adviser Joe Lockhart joins the Gang to assess the latest round of debates and U.S. foreign policy in Iraq and Afghanistan. All that and much more right here, next on CNN.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LIN: Hi there, I'm Carol Lin. CAPITAL GANG in just a moment, but first a look at what's happening right now in the news. The Iraqi government has reached a deal to restore peace to Baghdad's Sadr City. There will be an informal ceasefire and fighters loyal
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