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CNN Live Saturday

Reservists in Iraq Refuse Dangerous Mission; Could Colorado Ballot Initiative Decide Presidency?

Aired October 16, 2004 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


KELLY WALLACE, CNN ANCHOR: It's 12:00 p.m. on the East coast, 9:00 a.m. in the West. Good Saturday afternoon to you. I'm Kelly Wallace in Washington. Ahead this hour:
The commanding officer said "move out," but his troops said "no."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They don't have bullet proof protection on the vehicles. They just don't go fast at all, it's just not safe to be in a hostile territory.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WALLACE: Did American soldiers refuse to follow orders? We'll have the latest on the investigation.

The race for the White House: Could a ballot initiative in Colorado decide which candidate wins the presidency?

Also, this hour, if you've got a chance to get away this fall, we've some of the best golf vacations available. But first, stories now in the news.

Iran is rejecting any proposed plan to end its uranium enrichment program. Diplomats from the European Union are working to get the United States and Russia to support such a plan. Uranium enriched to a low level can be used to fuel for nuclear stations, if enriched to a higher level it can be used for nuclear weapons.

Two American soldiers have been used in Afghanistan. A spokesman says their convoy came under attack and was hit by an explosion in the south central part of the country and adds there are no suspects at this time. Three our soldiers were wounded.

And the Russian Soyuz spacecraft was successfully docked with the International Space Station, but there were a few tense moments when the Soyuz approached too quickly and the docking had to be done manually. Russian spacecraft are normally guided by auto pilot.

We begin in Iraq with another day of fighting, including the deaths of more American troops. The U.S. military says two soldiers, a Marine and Iraqi civilian were killed in a suicide car bombing. That attack took place in the town of Qaim near the Syrian border.

A forth U.S. soldier was killed today in Mosul. His convoy was hit by a car bomb.

And in Baghdad, blasts damaged several churches across the city in four separate neighborhoods.

We'll have the results of a new national survey on Iraq focusing on the U.S. military, a poll of the military and their families by the Annenberg Survey finds they find too few troops were sent to Iraq and they also report too much reliance was placed on inadequate retrained and equipped National Guard and Reserve units.

Meantime, the U.S. military is investigating whether a Reserve unit in Iraq violated the rules by refusing to go on a dangerous mission. Our Pentagon correspondent, Barbara Starr has the details.

BARBARA STARR; PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: It is one of the most dangerous missions in Iraq, driving a convoy. This past Wednesday, in Tallil, southeast of Baghdad, 19 soldiers from a supply platoon failed to report for a mission to drive a fuel truck north to Taji.

It is now believed five of the soldiers may have actually have refused their orders. Specialist Amber MacClenny left this frantic message on her mother's answering machine.

AMBER MACCLENNY, U.S. ARMY: Hi Mom, this is Amber. This is a real, real big emergency. I need you to contact someone, I mean raise pure hell. We -- yesterday we refused to go on a convoy to Taji which is above Baghdad.

STARR: The Army is emphasizing this is an isolated incident, saying "It is far too early in the investigation to speculate as to what happened, why it happened or any action that might be taken."

Patricia Ann McCook says the troops were worried about safety including her husband, Sergeant Larry McCook.

PATRICIAN ANN MCCOOK, WIFE OF SGT. LARRY MCCOOK: They don't have bullet proof protection on the vehicles. They just don't go fast at all. It's just not safe to be in a hostile territory.

STARR: Three probes are underway into the actions of the soldiers from the 343rd Quartermaster Company, a Reserve unit from South Carolina. Investigators are talking to all those involved, trying to find out what happened and why. Another inquiry is determining whether there were violations of the uniform code of military justice. And the commanding officer has ordered a safety maintenance stand-down during which all vehicles will be inspected and retraining will be done.

Democratic congressman, Bennie Thompson, says relatives of the soldiers told him the unit had unsafe equipment.

REP BENNIE THOMPSON (D), MISSISSIPPI: And it goes to the issue of whether or not we have adequately equipped our men and women to fight this war in Iraq.

STARR: According to a military source, some of the soldiers raised valid concerns, and indication there may have been safety problems with the equipment, but the source said the concerns were raised in an inappropriate manner, causing a breakdown in discipline.

(on camera): The convoy was eventually driven by other soldiers. Barbara Starr, CNN, the Pentagon.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WALLACE: And the long and intense battle for the White House is about to draw to a close. Election Day just 17 days from now, and in the spotlight this weekend, two states that could swing the election, Ohio and Florida. CNN's Elaine Quijano is with us by phone en route to West Palm Beach, Florida where President Bush is getting ready to address supporters. And Ed Henry is with Senator John Kerry at a rally in Xenia, Ohio.

Elaine, let's begin with you. We understand you're on the campaign bus. What's the strategy by -- for -- from the president for the day?

ELAINE QUIJANO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: good afternoon to you, Kelly. Well, President Bush is in the middle of a three-stop bus tour here in Florida, hitting Sunrise, West Palm Beach, and Daytona. All areas that, campaign officials say, are blue parts of the state, democratic strong holds where the campaign feels the president has made significant inroads. At the first two stops, Mr. Bush is aiming at least part of his message at the sizable Jewish population. The president, at the rally in Sunrise, Florida, just a short time ago, highlighted to the crowd his signing of an anti-Semitism bill, today.

Now, the President Bush also launching into more attacks against democratic opponent Senator John Kerry over the issues of terrorism and Iraq. Now, the president drew attention to the senator's vote nearly one year ago today, against the $87 billion bill to fund troops in Iraq and Afghanistan. Mr. Bush continually to try to paint Kerry as a flip-flopper saying his vote to authorize the use of force in Iraq and the vote against the $84 billion resulted from tough opposition in the democratic primary from anti-war candidate, Howard Dean.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Senator Kerry, patently decided, supporting the troops, even while they were in harm's, way was not as important as shoring up his own political position.

(BOOS)

BUSH: At a time of great challenge in the world. The commander in chief must stand on principle, not the shifting sands of political convenience.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

QUIJANO: I look for the president to continue with that message as he goes on with his bus tour, today.

Now, besides the president's appearance at the debate in Coral Gables, Florida, this trip is his first post-hurricane campaign visit to this state. Now, campaign officials are saying that the strategy here is really the same attack he'll be taking in other swing states, taking the push for votes into democratic territory, areas where there's been huge population growth, but also where the campaign feels the president has made significant inroads. Polls still showing an extremely tight race here, 27 electoral votes up for grabs -- Kelly.

WALLACE: Elaine, such an important state. Elaine, thanks very much. Elaine Quijano literally on the campaign bus en route to West Palm Beach, Florida.

Now, let's turn to the democratic side, the campaign of Senator John Kerry. Ed Henry following the Kerry campaign, joining us now from Xenia, Ohio.

Ed, what's the strategy for the Kerry campaign on this day?

ED HENRY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, they really want to focus, Kelly, on the domestic agenda. That's what John Kerry will focus on for the final 17 days. But, as Elaine mentioned, President Bush, today in Florida, was attacking John Kerry on the first anniversary of Senator Kerry's vote against the $87 billion against the troops. That's the president has harped on that before and the Kerry campaign is firing back by saying that this is also the first anniversary of Donald Rumsfeld's memo in which he, the defense secretary, referred to Iraq as a "long, hard slog" and also raised question in that infamous memo about whether or not we were creating more terrorists than we were capturing by being in Iraq. The Kerry campaigning, here, is pointing out those are some of the very same questions the senator has been raising on the campaign trail and so they want to note that anniversary, as well.

But again, the Kerry camp wants to stay focused, they're honing in on the domestic agenda. That is exactly what John Kerry was focusing on at a town hall meeting at this high school behind me. He just wrapped it up a few minutes ago, and what he pounced on, he pounced on comments by Treasury Secretary John Snow, who is in Ohio this week, saying that this whole controversy about job loss is a "myth." Here's how John Kerry responded:

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOHN KERRY (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Just this week -- just this week, President Bush's treasury secretary, John Snow, came right here to Ohio. And here we are in a state with some of the worse job losses in all of the United States and he stated publicly that job losses are nothing but a myth.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HENRY: the bottom line here is John Kerry wants to jump on that, because Ohio, a key state, they've lost 173,000 manufacturing jobs in the last four years, 20 electoral votes at stake, President Bush had it 2000, John Kerry wants to take it away this time around. Polls showing that he might be starting to open a little bit of a lead. Also, John Kerry very hard on the flu vaccine shortage story, pointing out that there's a short fall, potentially, of 48 million flu vaccines. John Kerry has a new ad going out today saying this is a metaphor of the Bush administration's problems, they ignored the problem too long on the flu vaccine matter and now it's coming back to hurt the American people. Bush campaign firing back and saying that John Kerry has voted against flu vaccine production before, so they're saying he's the last person who should be raising this as a controversy -- Kelly.

WALLACE: And Ed, we know the senator, at one point, was considering going to West Virginia this weekend, no longer doing that. Is the Kerry campaign sort of writing off West Virginia now?

HENRY: They're not officially writing off West Virginia, but you're right, West Virginia and Missouri also, two states that the Kerry campaign is not really going to be spending much money in anymore on ads, because it realized it looks like it's really away from them, at this point. Instead, they're honing in on other Midwest battlegrounds, like Ohio, like Minnesota, Wisconsin, which is where Senator Kerry was last night and, like the president being in Florida today, John Kerry heading to Florida tomorrow -- Kelly.

WALLACE: Ed, thanks so very much. Ed Henry reporting from the very important battleground state of Ohio.

Well, as the battle for the White House moves into its final two weeks, just over a dozen states are still up for grabs and they include some heavy weights. Two states we were just taking about, Florida and Ohio, also Pennsylvania and Michigan. And the map appears to be shifting, somewhat. Our latest polls show a trend toward Senator Kerry in Ohio and New Hampshire. In all, these 14 swing states have 151 electoral votes. As you know, it takes 270 to win the election.

Three days after the final presidential debate, Senator John Kerry's comments about Mary Cheney are still part of the campaign buzz. As CNN's Wolf Blitzer reports, Mr. Kerry's comments about the vice president's openly gay daughter set off a round of spin and counter-spin.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

WOLF BLITZER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It started with the last presidential debate and a direct question to the candidates. "Do you believe homosexuality is a choice?

President Bush said this:

BUSH: I don't know. I just don't know.

BLITZER: But it was John Kerry's response to ignited the latest campaign controversy.

KERRY: I think if you were to talk to Dick Cheney's daughter, who is a lesbian, she would tell you that she's being who she was. She's being who she was born as. I think if you talk to anybody, it's not a choice.

BLITZER: The Cheney's response:

DICK CHENEY, U.S. VICE PRESIDENT: You saw a man who will say and do anything in order to get elected. And I am not speaking just as a father here, though I am a pretty angry father.

LYNN CHENEY, V.P. CHENEY'S WIFE: I am speaking as a mom, and a pretty indignant mom, This is not a good man. What a cheap and tawdry political trick.

BLITZER: The Kerry camp was quick to point out that the vice president himself brought up his daughter's sexuality in an August campaign appearance in Iowa.

CHENEY: The question has come up obviously in the past with respect to the question of gay marriage. Lynn and I have a gay daughter, so it's an issue that our family is very familiar with

BLITZER: And there was no indignation when John Edwards broached the topic in the vice presidential debate.

SEN. JOHN EDWARDS (D), VICE PRES. CANDIDATE: I think the vice president and his wife love their daughter. I think they love her very much. And you can't have anything but respect for the fact that they're willing to talk about the fact that they have a gay daughter.

BLITZER: Cheney's response then:

CHENEY: Well, Gwen, let me simply thank the senator for the kind words he said about my family and our daughter. I appreciate that very much.

EDWARDS: You're welcome. You're welcome.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That's it?

CHENEY: That's it.

BLITZER: But two weeks later, with polls showing a clean sweep of the debates for Kerry and the race still too close to call, the Bush team's tone has changed.

MARY MATALIN, BUSH-CHENEY '04: It's below the belt. It's beyond -- it's just despicable.

Elizabeth Edwards only added fuel to the fire in a radio interview.

ELIZABETH EDWARDS, SEN. EDWARDS' WIFE: It makes me really sad that that's Lynn's response. I think that it indicates a certain degree of shame with respect to her daughter's sexual preferences.

BLITZER: Kerry himself issued a statement saying, "I love my daughters. They love their daughter. I was trying to say something positive about the way strong families deal with this issue." One Bush adviser called that a non-apology.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WALLACE: So, was Senator John Kerry right or wrong? Coming up later this hour, we'll hear what the ethics guy, Bruce Weinstein, has to say about the flap over Senator John Kerry's comments about Mary Cheney and her sexual orientation.

Just ahead, Florida, as you know, was a pivotal state in the last presidential election. This year, it could be Colorado. And the vote on one valid proposition could affect presidential elections this year and years to come.

Also, it's very expensive, but it could save your life, so is a portable heart defibrillator worth it? An expert will be here to help you decide if you should spend the money for one.

And later, fall is a great time to have a golf get away. We'll show you some of the bets places to go. Don't go away.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WALLACE: Every four years, Americans are reminded that it is a group of people in the Electoral College, not the popular vote that elects the president. It is winner take all in most states, get the most popular votes, get all of the states electoral votings, but that could change. A proposed amendment to Colorado state constitution would award that state's electoral votes based on the percentage of votes each candidate wins. And if the proposition passes, it would be in effect for this election.

Joining us with opposing views of the issue, Colorado State Senator Ron Tupa, outreach director for a group called "Make Your Vote Count" a groups trying to pass the amendment. And Katy Atkinson is with a group against the amendment called with a group called "Coloradoans Against a Really Stupid Idea."

Thank you both for being with us on this Saturday afternoon.

KATY ATKINSON, CARSI: Thank you.

SEN. RON TUPA (D), COLORADO: Thank you.

WALLACE: Senator Tupa, let me playoff the name of the group, Colorado Coloradoans Against a Really Stupid Idea. What would you say in response to that group? Why do you believe this is such a good idea?

TUPA: Well, the winner-take-all system doesn't fairly and accurately represent the popular vote when people vote for president. It's as outdated as the Electoral College system itself. So, what Amendment 36 would do would guarantee the principle of one person, one vote and make sure that every vote is counted when you cast a ballot for president.

WALLACE: Katie Atkinson, what's wrong with that? One person, one vote, people in Colorado could feel that their vote, in some way, might have more power than under the current system.

ATKINSON: The truth is, should Amendment 36 pass, no one's votes in Colorado will have much power or much clout.

Here's what happens...

WALLACE: Why, why is that Miss Atkinson? Why do you say that?

ATKINSON: Because it will split Colorado's Electoral College votes to the point where we will probably only have one net Electoral College vote in play. So, that takes us from a state with nine Electoral College votes to one Electoral College vote. Also, I think it's problematic that they're doing this retroactively. Normally when you pass a constitutional amendment or initiated law, it takes place in the future, from then on. It does not take -- apply to something that's already happened. So it's -- you know, it's mischievous at best, at worst, it's a sorry attempt to have Colorado commit electoral suicide.

WALLACE: Senator Tupa, Miss Atkinson raises a very good point. Why should this be in effect, if it passes, should be it in effect on November 2? Why should it be in the next presidential election? Why should it immediately take effect? Because, that's almost unheard of for other ballot propositions.

TUPA: Well, not -- not really. I mean, if you -- if you identify a problem, what better time to address it than during a presidential election year, when it's fresh in everybody's minds? What the opponent's of this measure would say somehow or other, we're setting new legal precedent that you cannot do this. Nothing could be further from the truth. It's constitutionally permissible, it's legally defensible. The state of Colorado has case law that has allows things to take effect immediately, and it's right there in the ballot title so people know when they vote for this if it passes, it does take effect for this election cycle.

WALLACE: And Miss Atkinson, I mean it is happening in some ways in other places such as Maine where you have, sort of, one electoral vote per congressional district, it doesn't seem to be, sort of, outraging people of Maine. Candidates are still traveling to Maine, both President Bush and Senator Kerry going there. What's wrong with that?

ATKINSON: This isn't the same as what we have in Maine and Nebraska, the other state that has a different kind of system. Their systems require a candidate still to win at least a congressional district before they get Electoral College vote. In Colorado, you wouldn't have to have that kind of broad based support before you get Electoral College votes. You know, it's -- the only reason it's on the ballot here is not because Colorado citizens were up in arms about the Electoral College, but because a wealthy fellow, through a group in California, decided to hire some people in Arizona to pay to petition to get it on the ballot in Colorado. This is not a home-grown initiative and I think the last poll we saw showed -- shows that it's going down. Coloradoans are not willing to abdicate any of their electoral power. WALLACE: Senator, is it not getting the support statewide?

TUPA: No. We're still polling around 50 percent, and we knew that it was not going to be an easy battle, especially with the money the opponents have raised now and I might add, three quarters that the money that the opposition has raised has come from out of state sources, as well. We think they're part of the Bush pioneers and are very worried about splitting the vote in the state of Colorado.

WALLACE: Senator, is it coming from democrats outside of Colorado thinking this could be a place that could be beneficial for Senator Kerry's campaign?

TUPA: No, Amendment 36 is a non-partisan citizen's initiative. We have support form democrats, republicans, and unaffiliated voters. However, the opposition primarily seems to come from the Republican Party and, in particular, we have a lot of money coming in from some of the Bush pioneers that are worried about splitting the vote in the state of Colorado.

WALLACE: Let me give Miss Atkinson the final word. Is the opposition primarily coming from republicans concerned about splitting the vote?

ATKINSON: I have to say that are almost unanimously against this, but just about every prominent democrat in the state is against it, as well -- Ken Salazar, there, a democrat, a Senate candidate has come out against it; former democrat Governor Dick Lamb is against it. I think Senator Tupa is almost alone in the ranks of elected democrats...

WALLACE: OK. We've got to leave it there. We got to leave it there. Katy Atkinson on one view -- with one view, Senator Tupa with the other. Thanks very much for being with us. We appreciate it.

TUPA: Thank you for having us on.

WALLACE: Coming up next, little boys can be rambunctious, but that couldn't possibly excuse what one daycare operator is accused of doing. Stay with us to find out.

And will there be any relief from long lines for flu shots? We've got the latest on what's being done. The is CNN LIVE SATURDAY, don't go away.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WALLACE: And here's a look now at other news across America. A Texas woman says her 3-year-old grandson was tied up with duct tape at a daycare center. The center's operator reportedly told police she taped up the boy's wrist and ankles because he was hyper active. The operator will be arraigned next week.

Investigators are checking the wreckage of a small plane crash in Oregon; the three teenagers on the plane were killed. They failed to return from a trip to scout hunting areas. A logger spotted the wreckage.

And a George man walked into a sheriff's office this week with a very strange story. He had been watching disaster movie about a new ice age while drinking heavily. He then says he decided to set fire to his pillows which lead to his mobile home burning down. The sheriff says the man has been charged with arson. We don't make these things up.

Well, was it a cheap game or fair game? Is it even a story at all? We'll ask the ethics guy, Bruce Weinstein to weigh in on the flap over what Senator John Kerry said over Dick Cheney's lesbian daughter.

And later this hour, this is a great time of year for a golf get away. We'll show you some of the best places to hit the links and relax. Don't go away.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WALLACE: Well, the presidential candidates are going into battle for votes. They are campaigning in two key battleground states. President Bush is on a bus tour through Florida. You are looking at live pictures of a rally in West Palm Beach. President Bush will be speaking there very soon, and he will speak later in Daytona Beach.

Meantime, Senator John Kerry is campaigning through Republican territory in southern Ohio. He held a town hall meeting earlier in Xenia. Senator Kerry, will reach out to voters this afternoon in Wakefield, Ohio, later.

Now, to the raging debate over the daughter of vice president, Dick Cheney. Mary Cheney, who is quietly supporting her father's reelection campaign is now out front. Senator John Kerry, during Wednesday's debate with President Bush, noted that Mary Cheney is a lesbian. Well, now the vice president and his wife, Lynne, say the senator over stepped his bounds.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

L. CHENEY: I did have a chance to assess John Kerry once more. And, you know, the only thing I could conclude is this is not a good man.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WALLACE: In response, Senator Kerry issued a written statement saying, quote, I love my daughters. They love their daughter. I was trying to say something positive about the way strong families deal with this issue, end quote. Did Senator Kerry commit an ethical snafu when he referenced Mary Cheney during debate or is it just the case of two parents being overprotective?

Well, we will ask the ethics guy, syndicated columnist, Bruce Weinstein. And he joins us form New York.

Good afternoon to you. Thanks for being with us.

BRUCE WEINSTEIN, THE ETHICS GUY: Thanks for inviting me, Kelly.

WALLACE: Good to see you.

So, did Senator Kerry commit an ethical snafu here?

WEINSTEIN: Kelly, it was unethical for Senator Kerry to talk about Mary Cheney for the following reasons. And it was unethical for the following reasons. First of all, Mary Cheney is a private citizen and simply because she happens to be the daughter of the vice president does not mean that her personal life is up for grabs. Secondly, she did not give her consent to be talked about in such a fashion. And what's a shame about Senator Kerry's move, Kelly, is that for the last three days, the debate has shifted from a very important discussion about the nature of sexual orientation and whether sexual orientation is innate. The debate has shifted from that to the way that the issue was presented. There were a lot of people Senator Kerry could have mentioned who would have had no problem with being involved, his colleague in Congress, Barney Frank, who is open and honest about his homosexuality. Why not talk about Barney Frank in such a way?

Now, I should mention, Kelly, my analysis of this issue is not a function of my personal political beliefs. What I'm saying has nothing to do with whether I happen to be a Republican or Democrat. Ethical analysis is above and beyond or should be above and beyond one political affiliation.

WALLACE: Let me toss out, playing devil advocate. Certainly what your hearing from Democrats, they say that the vice president has talked openly on the campaign trail that he does have an openly gay daughter.

WEINSTEIN: Well, that...

WALLACE: Did that play a role in the ethics here?

WEINSTEIN: It's one thing for a father to talk about his daughter and, presumably, in that context, Mary Cheney would have no problem with that. But it's another thing for someone else to talk about one's daughter. I mean, what this really comes down to is the ethics of talking about another person's family member, and generally, it is not a good idea. And by taking the high road, Senator Kerry could have completely side stepped this debate and focused on what was really important, namely the nature of sexual orientation.

But because he didn't take the high road in this case, and I would not go as far as Lynne Cheney did, to dismiss Senator Kerry as being a bad man. One misstep does not make one a bad person. But the act itself was ethically questionable, absolutely.

WALLACE: OK, let's switch subjects and switch gears here. As you know, Sinclair Broadcasting creating quite an up roar, saying it has ordered, some 60 stations to air an anti-John Kerry documentary before the November election.

Ethically correct here? What's your analysis?

WEINSTEIN: It would be unethical for Sinclair Broadcasting to broadcast this particular film without giving equal time to another point of view, for example, Michael Moore's Fahrenheit 9/11 or the controversial film "Control Room," both of which take an opposing point of view to the anti-Kerry film.

You see, Kelly, a television station or even 62 television stations which Sinclair owns are different kind of entities than, say, restaurants or shoe stores, things that can be privately owned. Television station are public entities, because they're under the Federal Communications Commission.

And so, the public has an interest in what kind of material is broadcast, and it is unfair for a television network to show only one side of the issue. Fairness would require showing both sides of the issue. So, either Sinclair should show the Kerry film and, say, "Fahrenheit 9/11" or neither film.

WALLACE: Well, all right, we'll see if Sinclair Broadcasting is listening to your analysis today.

Bruce Weinstein, the ethics guy. Nice to see you from New York. Thanks for being with us.

WEINSTEIN: Thanks again, Kelly.

WALLACE: Coming up, most of us have smoke detectors in our home, and fires kill thousands of Americans each year. But not most of us have a portable defibrillator, even though heart attacks kill almost a half million Americans each year.

Should you buy what's called an AED. We'll tell you if it's worth the money to have one. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WALLACE: Some health headlines you need to know this weekend. The FDA says none of the flu vaccine made by the Chiron Corporation in Britain can be savaged. Authorities confirmed bacterial contamination at the Liverpool plant. U.S. officials are urging American's to leave flu shots for the young, old and chronically ill.

The FDA is ordering warning labels on all antidepressants. Studies indicate antidepressants can increase the risk of suicidal thinking and behavior in some children. Prozac is the only FDA approved antidepressant for use in people under the age of 18.

Well, most of us have smoke detectors in our homes, yet the risk of dying from a heart attack can be 10 times greater than the risk of a fire. Sudden cardiac arrest kills 900 Americans each day. Many deaths could be prevented if we had heart defibrillators in our homes and if we knew how to use them.

The FDA recently approved the sale of a certain brand and model without a prescriptions. Should you get one?/

Dr. Winston Gandy, Jr is a cardiologist and a spokesman for The American Heart Association. He joins us today from Atlanta.

Hello, doctor. Thanks for being with us.

Good morning, Kelly, how are you?

WALLACE: Good. Good to see you. Well, first describe for our views what is an AED?

DR. WINSTON GANDY JR., AMERICAN HEART ASSOCIATION: An AED or an automated defibrillator is a device that is readily available here. It has some electrodes which connect to the body and the computer inside assesses the heart rhythm and determines whether a cardiac shock from the device is necessary. This is something that is evolved over time and now is something that is very easily operated by the lay population as well.

WALLACE: Can you show us, as our viewers watch, a sense of how it would work?

If I had one at my home and I needed to use it right away, how would I handle that?

GANDY: I can demonstrate it very simply for you here. The device is very easily accessible. You push the button, it opens.

At this point, you would call for help. We would remove the clothes from the victim's chest. It then tells you each step of the way what to do.

MACHINE: Pull red handle to open bag. Peel each pad off blue plastic and apply pads to exposed chest.

GANDY: And, very simply, pads can be applied.

MACHINE: Remove. Do not touch patient.

GANDY: At this point...

MACHINE: Evaluating heart rhythm.

GANDY: It prompts you exactly what to do.

WALLACE: So, Dr. Gandy, while we listen to that, let me ask you, how expensive, though, is an AED? They're not cheap.

GANDY: No. The devices are not cheap. The light comes on and you deploy the shock. And everything happens from that point forward. These devices can range anywhere from $1,000 to $2,000. Certainly not your every day, run of the mill device. The issue is that since so many people, approximately 350,000 people each year have cardiac arrest outside the hospital, only about 5 percent survive. Fifty percent of the arrests that occur in the home are unwitnessed. So, the question or the jury is still out on whether or not AEDs are something that The Heart Association can recommend at home. What The Heart Association does do is recommend these devices for public places, such as stadiums and large venues where large groups of people are gathered. Something like an airport, for instance.

WALLACE: I know you can't give a recommendation, obviously, and the American Heart Association not recommending in the sense of should everyone get one. But is the sense as viewers is watching if you have the means available, that you should probably pick one up? Why not?

GANDY: I think it's an excellent opportunity and certainly, as you've described, this is something that could be life saving and certainly anyone who has ever been resuscitated or been party to a resuscitation with an AED certainly would tell you the value is priceless. So, the price tag on it is, in retrospect, relatively cheap. The issue then becomes is this something that we could require in individuals' homes. I think it wouldn't be a stretch and certainly would be encouraged to have it in places where large groups of people gather, such as the movement ongoing in our country now, public access for defibrillation.

WALLACE: OK, Dr. Winston Gandy, Jr., we have to leave it there.

Important information and Important advice. And thanks for the on camera demonstration of how to use these devices. We appreciate it very much.

GANDY: Thank you, Kelly.

WALLACE: Well, the weather has already thrown one wrench into a very busy sports weekend. Find out if those stormy skies will be clearing up.

You definitely want good weather if your going on a golf vacation. We can't give you top notch weather, but we can give you some top notch resorts for a gold get away. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(NEWS BREAK)

WALLACE: Dreading the cold, icy winter days that keep you off the golf course, time for a fall golf get away before the weather gets to drab.

"Travel + Leisure" October issue can point you to a great tee time. Ty Wenger is a senior editor at "Traveler" - "Travel + Leisure Golf" and he joins us from New York today. Thanks for being with us.

TY WENGER, "TRAVEL + LEISURE GOLF": Thanks for having me, Kelly.

WALLACE: So, viewers are watching closely, everyone looking forward to getting out on the links.

Let me ask you this first, is now the best time of year to head away for a golf get away? WENGER: I think so. absolutely. Because, you know, summer the courses are crowded, spring, dicey weather. Fall is the time when a lot of time folks, they forget about golf. And the courses are nice and open. And a lot of these resorts are offering great deals to lure golfers.

WALLACE: Yes, so lets get some of those deals out there and information to our viewers. First, let's talk about the Granite Links Golf Club in Quarry Hills, in Quincy, Massachusetts, what can you tell us about that?

WENGER: If you've been Boston in the past 15 years, you're probably familiar with something called the Big Dig.

WALLACE: Yes, I think -- yes, everybody is familiar with that.

WENGER: That huge construction project where they've been burying all the highways. Bostonians love to complain about that. They love to complain about a lot of things actually. But they love more than anything else to complain about the Big Dig. Well, they might have to stop complaining, because this golf course that we're looking at right here was actually built with landfill from the big dig. 900,000 truckloads of it, more than 13 million tons of earth removed, brought down to Quincy, Massachusetts about 10 miles south of downtown Boston. In fact, you can actually see downtown Boston from many of the golf holes. It's a wonderful golf course and it's definitely worth a play. And after the Yankees beat the Red Soxs in about two days, the Bostonians will have something they can do there.

WALLACE: I was going to throw that in. If the Red Soxs don't do well, they can head out on to the links.

All right, lets move on before we get people upset at us.

(UNINTELLIGIBLE) at Palmetto Bluff, and May River Golf Club in Palmetto Bluff, South Carolina, what's so special about this place?

WENGER: Well, what's special about it is that the Auberge's Resort is a property company out in the West Coast that has long delivered a whole host of really spectacular properties, including the lodge at CordeValle, Esperenza in Los Cabos. This is the first one on the East Coast. And in addition to it, what you're seeing here are the pictures of the Jack Nicklaus Signature Golf Course, that goes along with this fantastic Palmetto Bluff Resort. The resort is splendid. It's intimate luxury. It's not that stuffy luxury, we're they'll sort of assault you with, at somewhere like at the bigger hotels. It's downscale. It's intimate. It's southern, moss draped oaks, old-style southern feel and a wonderful golf course down there designed by Jack Nicklaus. We're actually calling it one of the top 10 new course of the year, this year.

WALLACE: Well, we covered a couple on the East Coast, let's head on the West Coast.

Let's look at Bandon Dunes Golf Resort in Bandon, Oregon. What can you tell us about that? WENGER: Well, I can tell you something pretty exciting, actually, about Bandon Dunes. There are two fantastic golf course, Pacific Dunes and Bandon Dunes, which have open within the past five years. A lot of golfers know about that. But there's a third course they're building, which is probably the most highly anticipated new golf course, maybe in the country next year. It's not opening until the spring, but we did a little bit of looking around and found out, that if golfers head to the resort this fall, they'll get a chance to play as many as nine of the golf holes that are actually ready for play this fall.

So, all you have to do is go there, stay at the resort and you get the opportunity to get a sneak preview on what's probably the most exciting new golf course of the year.

WALLACE: All right, Ty Wenger, we have to leave it there.

But for many of us following politics, he's given us something we can do after the election, right?

WENGER: Yes. Thankfully, once this is all over, let's all go play golf.

WALLACE: Absolutely. And again for our views, "Travel and Leisure: Golf" October issue, you can get more information.

Ty Wenger, thanks again for joining us from New York.

WENGER: Thank you, Kelly.

WALLACE: Still ahead on CNN LIVE SATURDAY, you hear them all the time, now you get to meet them. The people behind all those political ads. You won't want to miss this. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WALLACE: One guarantee during the political season is the explosion of political ads on television. Whether an ad is trying to be serious, upbeat or even light hearted, the voice you hear can make all the difference.

Our Bruce Burkhardt looks behind the microphone at some of the voices of the campaign.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Real life. Real work. Real leadership.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... helped bring $2 million to begin...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A quiet real American courage.

BRUCE BURKHARDT, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: I'm Bruce Burkhardt and I not only approve this story, but I'm voicing it, too, just like Alan Blevis (ph) is giving voice to this ad for a Democratic Congressman. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Imagine this, the year's 1968...

BURKHARDT: And Betsy Aims (ph) is doing the same for a Republican Congressman.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... that your vote does make a difference.

BURKHARDT: They are the invisible people. As invisible as they are critical to persuading you to vote for the right guy.

JOE SLADE WHITE, DEMOCRATIC MEDIA CONSULTANT: If there's any false notes in it, in the tone of voice, then you don't know why don't like a commercial. But it's because of that. Because it doesn't sound true. It does ring true. We say ring true, because it's a sound.

BURKHARDT: Joe Slade White, like most media consultants, is on the go in this election season. From the back seat of a Washington D.C. cab, he directs a Voice over session in a New York studio.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And he knows firsthand the difference education could mean for our children.

WHITE: What was the time on that mark?

BURKHARDT: Alan Blevis has worked with Joe for years, and other Democrats, including Clinton and Gore. Like most political voice over talent, he only works one side of the street, in his case, Democrat.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't agree with everything every candidate does -- every candidate believes in, but the premise of the party, in my opinion, is what I am in favor of.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Your vote does make a difference.

BURKHARDT: Betsy Aims, who does exclusively, Republican ads says it just worked out that way. They asked first.

This is my business. I'm an actress. I'm the manger. How I feel about it has absolutely nothing to do with it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So, bring that audio down.

BURKHARDT: Tom Edmonds, a republican consultant who was behind the highly effective NRA ads in the 2000 election work with his Betsy often.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Let's do a safety -- safety of the safety.

BURKHARDT: And if there's one thing Republican and Democratic consultants agree on, it's the importance of the voice.

Not only do they bring your ideas to life and making something believable, but you're telling them they have to do it half a second faster than they just did it. Don't make it sound any more rushed, just do it a half second faster. That's great. It is talent. BURKHARDT: The use of women's voices in ads has been increasing.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Patty Murray (ph), has a different view.

BURKHARDT: So, too, have male voices that sound friendlier, conversational.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And dreams need places where they can play out.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If the quality voice says, I'm not going to listen to you, I'm just going to tell you things, then people are going to get turned off.

BURKHARDT: And though we like to think we're turned on by matters of substance, maybe we're moved more by the candidate who has found his or her voice.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. Why don't we play that back? I think that was really, really good.

BURKHARDT: Bruce Burkhardt, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WALLACE: A fascinating look at the voices behind the pictures. Thanks to Bruce Burkhardt for that.

There is much more ahead on CNN Saturday.

In a few moments "IN THE MONEY."

At 2:00 p.m. Eastern, CNN LIVE SATURDAY, we'll have an investigation of the unit that refused to go on a dangerous refueling mission in Iraq. At 3:00 p.m. Eastern it is "NEXT@CNN."

But first Jack Cafferty with a preview of "IN THE MONEY."

JACK CAFFERTY, HOST "IN THE MONEY": Thanks. Coming up in "IN THE MONEY" the battle for Ohio. We'll check on the swing state that could well decide the entire election.

Plus, oil barrel and the gun barrel. See if the United States military has a new job, bringing you cheap oil from high risk locations.

And they've got to have it, learn how advertisers can turn a mere product into something that kids can't live without.

All that and more right after this quick check of the headlines.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com


Aired October 16, 2004 - 12:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KELLY WALLACE, CNN ANCHOR: It's 12:00 p.m. on the East coast, 9:00 a.m. in the West. Good Saturday afternoon to you. I'm Kelly Wallace in Washington. Ahead this hour:
The commanding officer said "move out," but his troops said "no."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They don't have bullet proof protection on the vehicles. They just don't go fast at all, it's just not safe to be in a hostile territory.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WALLACE: Did American soldiers refuse to follow orders? We'll have the latest on the investigation.

The race for the White House: Could a ballot initiative in Colorado decide which candidate wins the presidency?

Also, this hour, if you've got a chance to get away this fall, we've some of the best golf vacations available. But first, stories now in the news.

Iran is rejecting any proposed plan to end its uranium enrichment program. Diplomats from the European Union are working to get the United States and Russia to support such a plan. Uranium enriched to a low level can be used to fuel for nuclear stations, if enriched to a higher level it can be used for nuclear weapons.

Two American soldiers have been used in Afghanistan. A spokesman says their convoy came under attack and was hit by an explosion in the south central part of the country and adds there are no suspects at this time. Three our soldiers were wounded.

And the Russian Soyuz spacecraft was successfully docked with the International Space Station, but there were a few tense moments when the Soyuz approached too quickly and the docking had to be done manually. Russian spacecraft are normally guided by auto pilot.

We begin in Iraq with another day of fighting, including the deaths of more American troops. The U.S. military says two soldiers, a Marine and Iraqi civilian were killed in a suicide car bombing. That attack took place in the town of Qaim near the Syrian border.

A forth U.S. soldier was killed today in Mosul. His convoy was hit by a car bomb.

And in Baghdad, blasts damaged several churches across the city in four separate neighborhoods.

We'll have the results of a new national survey on Iraq focusing on the U.S. military, a poll of the military and their families by the Annenberg Survey finds they find too few troops were sent to Iraq and they also report too much reliance was placed on inadequate retrained and equipped National Guard and Reserve units.

Meantime, the U.S. military is investigating whether a Reserve unit in Iraq violated the rules by refusing to go on a dangerous mission. Our Pentagon correspondent, Barbara Starr has the details.

BARBARA STARR; PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: It is one of the most dangerous missions in Iraq, driving a convoy. This past Wednesday, in Tallil, southeast of Baghdad, 19 soldiers from a supply platoon failed to report for a mission to drive a fuel truck north to Taji.

It is now believed five of the soldiers may have actually have refused their orders. Specialist Amber MacClenny left this frantic message on her mother's answering machine.

AMBER MACCLENNY, U.S. ARMY: Hi Mom, this is Amber. This is a real, real big emergency. I need you to contact someone, I mean raise pure hell. We -- yesterday we refused to go on a convoy to Taji which is above Baghdad.

STARR: The Army is emphasizing this is an isolated incident, saying "It is far too early in the investigation to speculate as to what happened, why it happened or any action that might be taken."

Patricia Ann McCook says the troops were worried about safety including her husband, Sergeant Larry McCook.

PATRICIAN ANN MCCOOK, WIFE OF SGT. LARRY MCCOOK: They don't have bullet proof protection on the vehicles. They just don't go fast at all. It's just not safe to be in a hostile territory.

STARR: Three probes are underway into the actions of the soldiers from the 343rd Quartermaster Company, a Reserve unit from South Carolina. Investigators are talking to all those involved, trying to find out what happened and why. Another inquiry is determining whether there were violations of the uniform code of military justice. And the commanding officer has ordered a safety maintenance stand-down during which all vehicles will be inspected and retraining will be done.

Democratic congressman, Bennie Thompson, says relatives of the soldiers told him the unit had unsafe equipment.

REP BENNIE THOMPSON (D), MISSISSIPPI: And it goes to the issue of whether or not we have adequately equipped our men and women to fight this war in Iraq.

STARR: According to a military source, some of the soldiers raised valid concerns, and indication there may have been safety problems with the equipment, but the source said the concerns were raised in an inappropriate manner, causing a breakdown in discipline.

(on camera): The convoy was eventually driven by other soldiers. Barbara Starr, CNN, the Pentagon.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WALLACE: And the long and intense battle for the White House is about to draw to a close. Election Day just 17 days from now, and in the spotlight this weekend, two states that could swing the election, Ohio and Florida. CNN's Elaine Quijano is with us by phone en route to West Palm Beach, Florida where President Bush is getting ready to address supporters. And Ed Henry is with Senator John Kerry at a rally in Xenia, Ohio.

Elaine, let's begin with you. We understand you're on the campaign bus. What's the strategy by -- for -- from the president for the day?

ELAINE QUIJANO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: good afternoon to you, Kelly. Well, President Bush is in the middle of a three-stop bus tour here in Florida, hitting Sunrise, West Palm Beach, and Daytona. All areas that, campaign officials say, are blue parts of the state, democratic strong holds where the campaign feels the president has made significant inroads. At the first two stops, Mr. Bush is aiming at least part of his message at the sizable Jewish population. The president, at the rally in Sunrise, Florida, just a short time ago, highlighted to the crowd his signing of an anti-Semitism bill, today.

Now, the President Bush also launching into more attacks against democratic opponent Senator John Kerry over the issues of terrorism and Iraq. Now, the president drew attention to the senator's vote nearly one year ago today, against the $87 billion bill to fund troops in Iraq and Afghanistan. Mr. Bush continually to try to paint Kerry as a flip-flopper saying his vote to authorize the use of force in Iraq and the vote against the $84 billion resulted from tough opposition in the democratic primary from anti-war candidate, Howard Dean.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Senator Kerry, patently decided, supporting the troops, even while they were in harm's, way was not as important as shoring up his own political position.

(BOOS)

BUSH: At a time of great challenge in the world. The commander in chief must stand on principle, not the shifting sands of political convenience.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

QUIJANO: I look for the president to continue with that message as he goes on with his bus tour, today.

Now, besides the president's appearance at the debate in Coral Gables, Florida, this trip is his first post-hurricane campaign visit to this state. Now, campaign officials are saying that the strategy here is really the same attack he'll be taking in other swing states, taking the push for votes into democratic territory, areas where there's been huge population growth, but also where the campaign feels the president has made significant inroads. Polls still showing an extremely tight race here, 27 electoral votes up for grabs -- Kelly.

WALLACE: Elaine, such an important state. Elaine, thanks very much. Elaine Quijano literally on the campaign bus en route to West Palm Beach, Florida.

Now, let's turn to the democratic side, the campaign of Senator John Kerry. Ed Henry following the Kerry campaign, joining us now from Xenia, Ohio.

Ed, what's the strategy for the Kerry campaign on this day?

ED HENRY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, they really want to focus, Kelly, on the domestic agenda. That's what John Kerry will focus on for the final 17 days. But, as Elaine mentioned, President Bush, today in Florida, was attacking John Kerry on the first anniversary of Senator Kerry's vote against the $87 billion against the troops. That's the president has harped on that before and the Kerry campaign is firing back by saying that this is also the first anniversary of Donald Rumsfeld's memo in which he, the defense secretary, referred to Iraq as a "long, hard slog" and also raised question in that infamous memo about whether or not we were creating more terrorists than we were capturing by being in Iraq. The Kerry campaigning, here, is pointing out those are some of the very same questions the senator has been raising on the campaign trail and so they want to note that anniversary, as well.

But again, the Kerry camp wants to stay focused, they're honing in on the domestic agenda. That is exactly what John Kerry was focusing on at a town hall meeting at this high school behind me. He just wrapped it up a few minutes ago, and what he pounced on, he pounced on comments by Treasury Secretary John Snow, who is in Ohio this week, saying that this whole controversy about job loss is a "myth." Here's how John Kerry responded:

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOHN KERRY (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Just this week -- just this week, President Bush's treasury secretary, John Snow, came right here to Ohio. And here we are in a state with some of the worse job losses in all of the United States and he stated publicly that job losses are nothing but a myth.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HENRY: the bottom line here is John Kerry wants to jump on that, because Ohio, a key state, they've lost 173,000 manufacturing jobs in the last four years, 20 electoral votes at stake, President Bush had it 2000, John Kerry wants to take it away this time around. Polls showing that he might be starting to open a little bit of a lead. Also, John Kerry very hard on the flu vaccine shortage story, pointing out that there's a short fall, potentially, of 48 million flu vaccines. John Kerry has a new ad going out today saying this is a metaphor of the Bush administration's problems, they ignored the problem too long on the flu vaccine matter and now it's coming back to hurt the American people. Bush campaign firing back and saying that John Kerry has voted against flu vaccine production before, so they're saying he's the last person who should be raising this as a controversy -- Kelly.

WALLACE: And Ed, we know the senator, at one point, was considering going to West Virginia this weekend, no longer doing that. Is the Kerry campaign sort of writing off West Virginia now?

HENRY: They're not officially writing off West Virginia, but you're right, West Virginia and Missouri also, two states that the Kerry campaign is not really going to be spending much money in anymore on ads, because it realized it looks like it's really away from them, at this point. Instead, they're honing in on other Midwest battlegrounds, like Ohio, like Minnesota, Wisconsin, which is where Senator Kerry was last night and, like the president being in Florida today, John Kerry heading to Florida tomorrow -- Kelly.

WALLACE: Ed, thanks so very much. Ed Henry reporting from the very important battleground state of Ohio.

Well, as the battle for the White House moves into its final two weeks, just over a dozen states are still up for grabs and they include some heavy weights. Two states we were just taking about, Florida and Ohio, also Pennsylvania and Michigan. And the map appears to be shifting, somewhat. Our latest polls show a trend toward Senator Kerry in Ohio and New Hampshire. In all, these 14 swing states have 151 electoral votes. As you know, it takes 270 to win the election.

Three days after the final presidential debate, Senator John Kerry's comments about Mary Cheney are still part of the campaign buzz. As CNN's Wolf Blitzer reports, Mr. Kerry's comments about the vice president's openly gay daughter set off a round of spin and counter-spin.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

WOLF BLITZER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It started with the last presidential debate and a direct question to the candidates. "Do you believe homosexuality is a choice?

President Bush said this:

BUSH: I don't know. I just don't know.

BLITZER: But it was John Kerry's response to ignited the latest campaign controversy.

KERRY: I think if you were to talk to Dick Cheney's daughter, who is a lesbian, she would tell you that she's being who she was. She's being who she was born as. I think if you talk to anybody, it's not a choice.

BLITZER: The Cheney's response:

DICK CHENEY, U.S. VICE PRESIDENT: You saw a man who will say and do anything in order to get elected. And I am not speaking just as a father here, though I am a pretty angry father.

LYNN CHENEY, V.P. CHENEY'S WIFE: I am speaking as a mom, and a pretty indignant mom, This is not a good man. What a cheap and tawdry political trick.

BLITZER: The Kerry camp was quick to point out that the vice president himself brought up his daughter's sexuality in an August campaign appearance in Iowa.

CHENEY: The question has come up obviously in the past with respect to the question of gay marriage. Lynn and I have a gay daughter, so it's an issue that our family is very familiar with

BLITZER: And there was no indignation when John Edwards broached the topic in the vice presidential debate.

SEN. JOHN EDWARDS (D), VICE PRES. CANDIDATE: I think the vice president and his wife love their daughter. I think they love her very much. And you can't have anything but respect for the fact that they're willing to talk about the fact that they have a gay daughter.

BLITZER: Cheney's response then:

CHENEY: Well, Gwen, let me simply thank the senator for the kind words he said about my family and our daughter. I appreciate that very much.

EDWARDS: You're welcome. You're welcome.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That's it?

CHENEY: That's it.

BLITZER: But two weeks later, with polls showing a clean sweep of the debates for Kerry and the race still too close to call, the Bush team's tone has changed.

MARY MATALIN, BUSH-CHENEY '04: It's below the belt. It's beyond -- it's just despicable.

Elizabeth Edwards only added fuel to the fire in a radio interview.

ELIZABETH EDWARDS, SEN. EDWARDS' WIFE: It makes me really sad that that's Lynn's response. I think that it indicates a certain degree of shame with respect to her daughter's sexual preferences.

BLITZER: Kerry himself issued a statement saying, "I love my daughters. They love their daughter. I was trying to say something positive about the way strong families deal with this issue." One Bush adviser called that a non-apology.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WALLACE: So, was Senator John Kerry right or wrong? Coming up later this hour, we'll hear what the ethics guy, Bruce Weinstein, has to say about the flap over Senator John Kerry's comments about Mary Cheney and her sexual orientation.

Just ahead, Florida, as you know, was a pivotal state in the last presidential election. This year, it could be Colorado. And the vote on one valid proposition could affect presidential elections this year and years to come.

Also, it's very expensive, but it could save your life, so is a portable heart defibrillator worth it? An expert will be here to help you decide if you should spend the money for one.

And later, fall is a great time to have a golf get away. We'll show you some of the bets places to go. Don't go away.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WALLACE: Every four years, Americans are reminded that it is a group of people in the Electoral College, not the popular vote that elects the president. It is winner take all in most states, get the most popular votes, get all of the states electoral votings, but that could change. A proposed amendment to Colorado state constitution would award that state's electoral votes based on the percentage of votes each candidate wins. And if the proposition passes, it would be in effect for this election.

Joining us with opposing views of the issue, Colorado State Senator Ron Tupa, outreach director for a group called "Make Your Vote Count" a groups trying to pass the amendment. And Katy Atkinson is with a group against the amendment called with a group called "Coloradoans Against a Really Stupid Idea."

Thank you both for being with us on this Saturday afternoon.

KATY ATKINSON, CARSI: Thank you.

SEN. RON TUPA (D), COLORADO: Thank you.

WALLACE: Senator Tupa, let me playoff the name of the group, Colorado Coloradoans Against a Really Stupid Idea. What would you say in response to that group? Why do you believe this is such a good idea?

TUPA: Well, the winner-take-all system doesn't fairly and accurately represent the popular vote when people vote for president. It's as outdated as the Electoral College system itself. So, what Amendment 36 would do would guarantee the principle of one person, one vote and make sure that every vote is counted when you cast a ballot for president.

WALLACE: Katie Atkinson, what's wrong with that? One person, one vote, people in Colorado could feel that their vote, in some way, might have more power than under the current system.

ATKINSON: The truth is, should Amendment 36 pass, no one's votes in Colorado will have much power or much clout.

Here's what happens...

WALLACE: Why, why is that Miss Atkinson? Why do you say that?

ATKINSON: Because it will split Colorado's Electoral College votes to the point where we will probably only have one net Electoral College vote in play. So, that takes us from a state with nine Electoral College votes to one Electoral College vote. Also, I think it's problematic that they're doing this retroactively. Normally when you pass a constitutional amendment or initiated law, it takes place in the future, from then on. It does not take -- apply to something that's already happened. So it's -- you know, it's mischievous at best, at worst, it's a sorry attempt to have Colorado commit electoral suicide.

WALLACE: Senator Tupa, Miss Atkinson raises a very good point. Why should this be in effect, if it passes, should be it in effect on November 2? Why should it be in the next presidential election? Why should it immediately take effect? Because, that's almost unheard of for other ballot propositions.

TUPA: Well, not -- not really. I mean, if you -- if you identify a problem, what better time to address it than during a presidential election year, when it's fresh in everybody's minds? What the opponent's of this measure would say somehow or other, we're setting new legal precedent that you cannot do this. Nothing could be further from the truth. It's constitutionally permissible, it's legally defensible. The state of Colorado has case law that has allows things to take effect immediately, and it's right there in the ballot title so people know when they vote for this if it passes, it does take effect for this election cycle.

WALLACE: And Miss Atkinson, I mean it is happening in some ways in other places such as Maine where you have, sort of, one electoral vote per congressional district, it doesn't seem to be, sort of, outraging people of Maine. Candidates are still traveling to Maine, both President Bush and Senator Kerry going there. What's wrong with that?

ATKINSON: This isn't the same as what we have in Maine and Nebraska, the other state that has a different kind of system. Their systems require a candidate still to win at least a congressional district before they get Electoral College vote. In Colorado, you wouldn't have to have that kind of broad based support before you get Electoral College votes. You know, it's -- the only reason it's on the ballot here is not because Colorado citizens were up in arms about the Electoral College, but because a wealthy fellow, through a group in California, decided to hire some people in Arizona to pay to petition to get it on the ballot in Colorado. This is not a home-grown initiative and I think the last poll we saw showed -- shows that it's going down. Coloradoans are not willing to abdicate any of their electoral power. WALLACE: Senator, is it not getting the support statewide?

TUPA: No. We're still polling around 50 percent, and we knew that it was not going to be an easy battle, especially with the money the opponents have raised now and I might add, three quarters that the money that the opposition has raised has come from out of state sources, as well. We think they're part of the Bush pioneers and are very worried about splitting the vote in the state of Colorado.

WALLACE: Senator, is it coming from democrats outside of Colorado thinking this could be a place that could be beneficial for Senator Kerry's campaign?

TUPA: No, Amendment 36 is a non-partisan citizen's initiative. We have support form democrats, republicans, and unaffiliated voters. However, the opposition primarily seems to come from the Republican Party and, in particular, we have a lot of money coming in from some of the Bush pioneers that are worried about splitting the vote in the state of Colorado.

WALLACE: Let me give Miss Atkinson the final word. Is the opposition primarily coming from republicans concerned about splitting the vote?

ATKINSON: I have to say that are almost unanimously against this, but just about every prominent democrat in the state is against it, as well -- Ken Salazar, there, a democrat, a Senate candidate has come out against it; former democrat Governor Dick Lamb is against it. I think Senator Tupa is almost alone in the ranks of elected democrats...

WALLACE: OK. We've got to leave it there. We got to leave it there. Katy Atkinson on one view -- with one view, Senator Tupa with the other. Thanks very much for being with us. We appreciate it.

TUPA: Thank you for having us on.

WALLACE: Coming up next, little boys can be rambunctious, but that couldn't possibly excuse what one daycare operator is accused of doing. Stay with us to find out.

And will there be any relief from long lines for flu shots? We've got the latest on what's being done. The is CNN LIVE SATURDAY, don't go away.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WALLACE: And here's a look now at other news across America. A Texas woman says her 3-year-old grandson was tied up with duct tape at a daycare center. The center's operator reportedly told police she taped up the boy's wrist and ankles because he was hyper active. The operator will be arraigned next week.

Investigators are checking the wreckage of a small plane crash in Oregon; the three teenagers on the plane were killed. They failed to return from a trip to scout hunting areas. A logger spotted the wreckage.

And a George man walked into a sheriff's office this week with a very strange story. He had been watching disaster movie about a new ice age while drinking heavily. He then says he decided to set fire to his pillows which lead to his mobile home burning down. The sheriff says the man has been charged with arson. We don't make these things up.

Well, was it a cheap game or fair game? Is it even a story at all? We'll ask the ethics guy, Bruce Weinstein to weigh in on the flap over what Senator John Kerry said over Dick Cheney's lesbian daughter.

And later this hour, this is a great time of year for a golf get away. We'll show you some of the best places to hit the links and relax. Don't go away.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WALLACE: Well, the presidential candidates are going into battle for votes. They are campaigning in two key battleground states. President Bush is on a bus tour through Florida. You are looking at live pictures of a rally in West Palm Beach. President Bush will be speaking there very soon, and he will speak later in Daytona Beach.

Meantime, Senator John Kerry is campaigning through Republican territory in southern Ohio. He held a town hall meeting earlier in Xenia. Senator Kerry, will reach out to voters this afternoon in Wakefield, Ohio, later.

Now, to the raging debate over the daughter of vice president, Dick Cheney. Mary Cheney, who is quietly supporting her father's reelection campaign is now out front. Senator John Kerry, during Wednesday's debate with President Bush, noted that Mary Cheney is a lesbian. Well, now the vice president and his wife, Lynne, say the senator over stepped his bounds.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

L. CHENEY: I did have a chance to assess John Kerry once more. And, you know, the only thing I could conclude is this is not a good man.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WALLACE: In response, Senator Kerry issued a written statement saying, quote, I love my daughters. They love their daughter. I was trying to say something positive about the way strong families deal with this issue, end quote. Did Senator Kerry commit an ethical snafu when he referenced Mary Cheney during debate or is it just the case of two parents being overprotective?

Well, we will ask the ethics guy, syndicated columnist, Bruce Weinstein. And he joins us form New York.

Good afternoon to you. Thanks for being with us.

BRUCE WEINSTEIN, THE ETHICS GUY: Thanks for inviting me, Kelly.

WALLACE: Good to see you.

So, did Senator Kerry commit an ethical snafu here?

WEINSTEIN: Kelly, it was unethical for Senator Kerry to talk about Mary Cheney for the following reasons. And it was unethical for the following reasons. First of all, Mary Cheney is a private citizen and simply because she happens to be the daughter of the vice president does not mean that her personal life is up for grabs. Secondly, she did not give her consent to be talked about in such a fashion. And what's a shame about Senator Kerry's move, Kelly, is that for the last three days, the debate has shifted from a very important discussion about the nature of sexual orientation and whether sexual orientation is innate. The debate has shifted from that to the way that the issue was presented. There were a lot of people Senator Kerry could have mentioned who would have had no problem with being involved, his colleague in Congress, Barney Frank, who is open and honest about his homosexuality. Why not talk about Barney Frank in such a way?

Now, I should mention, Kelly, my analysis of this issue is not a function of my personal political beliefs. What I'm saying has nothing to do with whether I happen to be a Republican or Democrat. Ethical analysis is above and beyond or should be above and beyond one political affiliation.

WALLACE: Let me toss out, playing devil advocate. Certainly what your hearing from Democrats, they say that the vice president has talked openly on the campaign trail that he does have an openly gay daughter.

WEINSTEIN: Well, that...

WALLACE: Did that play a role in the ethics here?

WEINSTEIN: It's one thing for a father to talk about his daughter and, presumably, in that context, Mary Cheney would have no problem with that. But it's another thing for someone else to talk about one's daughter. I mean, what this really comes down to is the ethics of talking about another person's family member, and generally, it is not a good idea. And by taking the high road, Senator Kerry could have completely side stepped this debate and focused on what was really important, namely the nature of sexual orientation.

But because he didn't take the high road in this case, and I would not go as far as Lynne Cheney did, to dismiss Senator Kerry as being a bad man. One misstep does not make one a bad person. But the act itself was ethically questionable, absolutely.

WALLACE: OK, let's switch subjects and switch gears here. As you know, Sinclair Broadcasting creating quite an up roar, saying it has ordered, some 60 stations to air an anti-John Kerry documentary before the November election.

Ethically correct here? What's your analysis?

WEINSTEIN: It would be unethical for Sinclair Broadcasting to broadcast this particular film without giving equal time to another point of view, for example, Michael Moore's Fahrenheit 9/11 or the controversial film "Control Room," both of which take an opposing point of view to the anti-Kerry film.

You see, Kelly, a television station or even 62 television stations which Sinclair owns are different kind of entities than, say, restaurants or shoe stores, things that can be privately owned. Television station are public entities, because they're under the Federal Communications Commission.

And so, the public has an interest in what kind of material is broadcast, and it is unfair for a television network to show only one side of the issue. Fairness would require showing both sides of the issue. So, either Sinclair should show the Kerry film and, say, "Fahrenheit 9/11" or neither film.

WALLACE: Well, all right, we'll see if Sinclair Broadcasting is listening to your analysis today.

Bruce Weinstein, the ethics guy. Nice to see you from New York. Thanks for being with us.

WEINSTEIN: Thanks again, Kelly.

WALLACE: Coming up, most of us have smoke detectors in our home, and fires kill thousands of Americans each year. But not most of us have a portable defibrillator, even though heart attacks kill almost a half million Americans each year.

Should you buy what's called an AED. We'll tell you if it's worth the money to have one. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WALLACE: Some health headlines you need to know this weekend. The FDA says none of the flu vaccine made by the Chiron Corporation in Britain can be savaged. Authorities confirmed bacterial contamination at the Liverpool plant. U.S. officials are urging American's to leave flu shots for the young, old and chronically ill.

The FDA is ordering warning labels on all antidepressants. Studies indicate antidepressants can increase the risk of suicidal thinking and behavior in some children. Prozac is the only FDA approved antidepressant for use in people under the age of 18.

Well, most of us have smoke detectors in our homes, yet the risk of dying from a heart attack can be 10 times greater than the risk of a fire. Sudden cardiac arrest kills 900 Americans each day. Many deaths could be prevented if we had heart defibrillators in our homes and if we knew how to use them.

The FDA recently approved the sale of a certain brand and model without a prescriptions. Should you get one?/

Dr. Winston Gandy, Jr is a cardiologist and a spokesman for The American Heart Association. He joins us today from Atlanta.

Hello, doctor. Thanks for being with us.

Good morning, Kelly, how are you?

WALLACE: Good. Good to see you. Well, first describe for our views what is an AED?

DR. WINSTON GANDY JR., AMERICAN HEART ASSOCIATION: An AED or an automated defibrillator is a device that is readily available here. It has some electrodes which connect to the body and the computer inside assesses the heart rhythm and determines whether a cardiac shock from the device is necessary. This is something that is evolved over time and now is something that is very easily operated by the lay population as well.

WALLACE: Can you show us, as our viewers watch, a sense of how it would work?

If I had one at my home and I needed to use it right away, how would I handle that?

GANDY: I can demonstrate it very simply for you here. The device is very easily accessible. You push the button, it opens.

At this point, you would call for help. We would remove the clothes from the victim's chest. It then tells you each step of the way what to do.

MACHINE: Pull red handle to open bag. Peel each pad off blue plastic and apply pads to exposed chest.

GANDY: And, very simply, pads can be applied.

MACHINE: Remove. Do not touch patient.

GANDY: At this point...

MACHINE: Evaluating heart rhythm.

GANDY: It prompts you exactly what to do.

WALLACE: So, Dr. Gandy, while we listen to that, let me ask you, how expensive, though, is an AED? They're not cheap.

GANDY: No. The devices are not cheap. The light comes on and you deploy the shock. And everything happens from that point forward. These devices can range anywhere from $1,000 to $2,000. Certainly not your every day, run of the mill device. The issue is that since so many people, approximately 350,000 people each year have cardiac arrest outside the hospital, only about 5 percent survive. Fifty percent of the arrests that occur in the home are unwitnessed. So, the question or the jury is still out on whether or not AEDs are something that The Heart Association can recommend at home. What The Heart Association does do is recommend these devices for public places, such as stadiums and large venues where large groups of people are gathered. Something like an airport, for instance.

WALLACE: I know you can't give a recommendation, obviously, and the American Heart Association not recommending in the sense of should everyone get one. But is the sense as viewers is watching if you have the means available, that you should probably pick one up? Why not?

GANDY: I think it's an excellent opportunity and certainly, as you've described, this is something that could be life saving and certainly anyone who has ever been resuscitated or been party to a resuscitation with an AED certainly would tell you the value is priceless. So, the price tag on it is, in retrospect, relatively cheap. The issue then becomes is this something that we could require in individuals' homes. I think it wouldn't be a stretch and certainly would be encouraged to have it in places where large groups of people gather, such as the movement ongoing in our country now, public access for defibrillation.

WALLACE: OK, Dr. Winston Gandy, Jr., we have to leave it there.

Important information and Important advice. And thanks for the on camera demonstration of how to use these devices. We appreciate it very much.

GANDY: Thank you, Kelly.

WALLACE: Well, the weather has already thrown one wrench into a very busy sports weekend. Find out if those stormy skies will be clearing up.

You definitely want good weather if your going on a golf vacation. We can't give you top notch weather, but we can give you some top notch resorts for a gold get away. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(NEWS BREAK)

WALLACE: Dreading the cold, icy winter days that keep you off the golf course, time for a fall golf get away before the weather gets to drab.

"Travel + Leisure" October issue can point you to a great tee time. Ty Wenger is a senior editor at "Traveler" - "Travel + Leisure Golf" and he joins us from New York today. Thanks for being with us.

TY WENGER, "TRAVEL + LEISURE GOLF": Thanks for having me, Kelly.

WALLACE: So, viewers are watching closely, everyone looking forward to getting out on the links.

Let me ask you this first, is now the best time of year to head away for a golf get away? WENGER: I think so. absolutely. Because, you know, summer the courses are crowded, spring, dicey weather. Fall is the time when a lot of time folks, they forget about golf. And the courses are nice and open. And a lot of these resorts are offering great deals to lure golfers.

WALLACE: Yes, so lets get some of those deals out there and information to our viewers. First, let's talk about the Granite Links Golf Club in Quarry Hills, in Quincy, Massachusetts, what can you tell us about that?

WENGER: If you've been Boston in the past 15 years, you're probably familiar with something called the Big Dig.

WALLACE: Yes, I think -- yes, everybody is familiar with that.

WENGER: That huge construction project where they've been burying all the highways. Bostonians love to complain about that. They love to complain about a lot of things actually. But they love more than anything else to complain about the Big Dig. Well, they might have to stop complaining, because this golf course that we're looking at right here was actually built with landfill from the big dig. 900,000 truckloads of it, more than 13 million tons of earth removed, brought down to Quincy, Massachusetts about 10 miles south of downtown Boston. In fact, you can actually see downtown Boston from many of the golf holes. It's a wonderful golf course and it's definitely worth a play. And after the Yankees beat the Red Soxs in about two days, the Bostonians will have something they can do there.

WALLACE: I was going to throw that in. If the Red Soxs don't do well, they can head out on to the links.

All right, lets move on before we get people upset at us.

(UNINTELLIGIBLE) at Palmetto Bluff, and May River Golf Club in Palmetto Bluff, South Carolina, what's so special about this place?

WENGER: Well, what's special about it is that the Auberge's Resort is a property company out in the West Coast that has long delivered a whole host of really spectacular properties, including the lodge at CordeValle, Esperenza in Los Cabos. This is the first one on the East Coast. And in addition to it, what you're seeing here are the pictures of the Jack Nicklaus Signature Golf Course, that goes along with this fantastic Palmetto Bluff Resort. The resort is splendid. It's intimate luxury. It's not that stuffy luxury, we're they'll sort of assault you with, at somewhere like at the bigger hotels. It's downscale. It's intimate. It's southern, moss draped oaks, old-style southern feel and a wonderful golf course down there designed by Jack Nicklaus. We're actually calling it one of the top 10 new course of the year, this year.

WALLACE: Well, we covered a couple on the East Coast, let's head on the West Coast.

Let's look at Bandon Dunes Golf Resort in Bandon, Oregon. What can you tell us about that? WENGER: Well, I can tell you something pretty exciting, actually, about Bandon Dunes. There are two fantastic golf course, Pacific Dunes and Bandon Dunes, which have open within the past five years. A lot of golfers know about that. But there's a third course they're building, which is probably the most highly anticipated new golf course, maybe in the country next year. It's not opening until the spring, but we did a little bit of looking around and found out, that if golfers head to the resort this fall, they'll get a chance to play as many as nine of the golf holes that are actually ready for play this fall.

So, all you have to do is go there, stay at the resort and you get the opportunity to get a sneak preview on what's probably the most exciting new golf course of the year.

WALLACE: All right, Ty Wenger, we have to leave it there.

But for many of us following politics, he's given us something we can do after the election, right?

WENGER: Yes. Thankfully, once this is all over, let's all go play golf.

WALLACE: Absolutely. And again for our views, "Travel and Leisure: Golf" October issue, you can get more information.

Ty Wenger, thanks again for joining us from New York.

WENGER: Thank you, Kelly.

WALLACE: Still ahead on CNN LIVE SATURDAY, you hear them all the time, now you get to meet them. The people behind all those political ads. You won't want to miss this. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WALLACE: One guarantee during the political season is the explosion of political ads on television. Whether an ad is trying to be serious, upbeat or even light hearted, the voice you hear can make all the difference.

Our Bruce Burkhardt looks behind the microphone at some of the voices of the campaign.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Real life. Real work. Real leadership.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... helped bring $2 million to begin...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A quiet real American courage.

BRUCE BURKHARDT, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: I'm Bruce Burkhardt and I not only approve this story, but I'm voicing it, too, just like Alan Blevis (ph) is giving voice to this ad for a Democratic Congressman. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Imagine this, the year's 1968...

BURKHARDT: And Betsy Aims (ph) is doing the same for a Republican Congressman.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... that your vote does make a difference.

BURKHARDT: They are the invisible people. As invisible as they are critical to persuading you to vote for the right guy.

JOE SLADE WHITE, DEMOCRATIC MEDIA CONSULTANT: If there's any false notes in it, in the tone of voice, then you don't know why don't like a commercial. But it's because of that. Because it doesn't sound true. It does ring true. We say ring true, because it's a sound.

BURKHARDT: Joe Slade White, like most media consultants, is on the go in this election season. From the back seat of a Washington D.C. cab, he directs a Voice over session in a New York studio.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And he knows firsthand the difference education could mean for our children.

WHITE: What was the time on that mark?

BURKHARDT: Alan Blevis has worked with Joe for years, and other Democrats, including Clinton and Gore. Like most political voice over talent, he only works one side of the street, in his case, Democrat.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't agree with everything every candidate does -- every candidate believes in, but the premise of the party, in my opinion, is what I am in favor of.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Your vote does make a difference.

BURKHARDT: Betsy Aims, who does exclusively, Republican ads says it just worked out that way. They asked first.

This is my business. I'm an actress. I'm the manger. How I feel about it has absolutely nothing to do with it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So, bring that audio down.

BURKHARDT: Tom Edmonds, a republican consultant who was behind the highly effective NRA ads in the 2000 election work with his Betsy often.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Let's do a safety -- safety of the safety.

BURKHARDT: And if there's one thing Republican and Democratic consultants agree on, it's the importance of the voice.

Not only do they bring your ideas to life and making something believable, but you're telling them they have to do it half a second faster than they just did it. Don't make it sound any more rushed, just do it a half second faster. That's great. It is talent. BURKHARDT: The use of women's voices in ads has been increasing.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Patty Murray (ph), has a different view.

BURKHARDT: So, too, have male voices that sound friendlier, conversational.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And dreams need places where they can play out.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If the quality voice says, I'm not going to listen to you, I'm just going to tell you things, then people are going to get turned off.

BURKHARDT: And though we like to think we're turned on by matters of substance, maybe we're moved more by the candidate who has found his or her voice.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. Why don't we play that back? I think that was really, really good.

BURKHARDT: Bruce Burkhardt, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WALLACE: A fascinating look at the voices behind the pictures. Thanks to Bruce Burkhardt for that.

There is much more ahead on CNN Saturday.

In a few moments "IN THE MONEY."

At 2:00 p.m. Eastern, CNN LIVE SATURDAY, we'll have an investigation of the unit that refused to go on a dangerous refueling mission in Iraq. At 3:00 p.m. Eastern it is "NEXT@CNN."

But first Jack Cafferty with a preview of "IN THE MONEY."

JACK CAFFERTY, HOST "IN THE MONEY": Thanks. Coming up in "IN THE MONEY" the battle for Ohio. We'll check on the swing state that could well decide the entire election.

Plus, oil barrel and the gun barrel. See if the United States military has a new job, bringing you cheap oil from high risk locations.

And they've got to have it, learn how advertisers can turn a mere product into something that kids can't live without.

All that and more right after this quick check of the headlines.

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