Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Live Saturday

Former Presidents Clinton, Bush Visit Phuket, Thailand;

Aired February 19, 2005 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


ANDREA KOPPEL, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Andrea Koppel in for Fredricka Whitfield. Ahead, CNN shows you how easy it is to buy a weapon that could be devastating in the hands of a terrorist. How devastating?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's where it came out. That's where it went in -- one inch steel plate.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KOPPEL: Also, this is this hour, it could potentially bring down an airplane. Why is it so easy to buy?

And, ahead, putting themselves where they've asked you to put your money: Two former presidents visit the region hit by the December tsunami and CNN is there.

Plus, Benny Goodman's clarinet, Louie Armstrong's trumpet, they can be yours. We'll preview an auction that is a jazz fan's "Love Supreme." But, first a look at the top stories in the news, now.

In Dallas, Texas, crews fought a five-alarm blaze in an empty apartment building near Love Field Airport. It isn't known what triggered the fire in the seven-story building, but smoke from the building could be seen for some distance. There were no known injuries.

A second deadly day of attacks in Iraq during the Shiite holy period of Ashurah. At least 23 people were killed in five separate bombings in Baghdad. Another attack in Baquba claimed three lives. We'll have the latest, live from Iraq, coming up in just a minute.

But first, North Korea announced today there is now no justification for bilateral talks with his the U.S. over itself nuclear program. A Chinese news agency reports the North Korea government blamed a hostile U.S. policy for retracting an earlier offer made for one-on-one talks. The U.S. already rejected that offer.

The NHL season was canceled Wednesday. Or was it? The players association and owners are gathering in New York to discuss a deal that could possibly, possibly, bring puck playback this season. Keeping you informed, CNN, the most trusted name in news.

First to Iraq where, despite heavy security, violence ramps up as Shiites mark the solemn holy day of Ashurah. And a five member U.S. congressional delegation arrives in Baghdad. CNN's senior international correspondent Nic Robertson is there live in the Iraqi capital.

So, a busy day, Nic.

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SR. INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Andrea, indeed. Eight suicide bombers counted in Baghdad, today. The main attacks happening around a shrine in Baghdad, a holy shrine for Shia worshippers as they were commemorating the Ashurah festival. Many of them were out on the street. Security was very, very tight, but an insurgent fired a rocket propelled grenade at a police vehicle. U.S. troops and Iraqi security forces moved in to secure the area close to the mosque north of Baghdad. At that moment, a suicide bomber stepped on a bus or was on a bus already, detonated his explosives, killing one U.S. soldier, wounding another, also killing four Iraqis, wounding 22 others in that blast.

There had been other attacks, three suicide bombers, again, approaching a group of worshippers as they were walking down the -- as they were walking down the road. The suicide bombers there killing five people, wounding -- wounding 40 others.

Another attack later in the afternoon, three suicide bombers, again, approaching a checkpoint close to -- close to marches. There, in that case, one person killed, an Iraqi soldier, as he tried to detain one of the suicide bombers. The other suicide bomber shot dead, the other one being detained. And earlier in the day, a suicide bomber on a bicycle had attacked a grathering (SIC) for a funeral. He rode his bicycle inside the tent where the funeral -- where the funeral was being commemorated. He detonated his explosives, killing three people, wounding 38 inside that tent.

Security high, but what marks this day different to last year where more than 141 Shia's were killed around these Ashurah commutations, no attacks in the holy city of Karbala, an indication, perhaps, that the security there, the Iraqi security, has kept insurgents at bay -- Andrea.

KOPPEL: Nic Robertson in Baghdad. Thank you.

As we mentioned earlier, a U.S. senate delegation is in Iraq today meeting U.S. military leaders, Iraqi officials, and local women leaders. Senator John McCain is leading the bipartisan group, that includes senators Susan Collins, Lindsey Graham, Hillary Rodham Clinton, and Russ Feingold. Both Clinton, a democrat, and McCain, a republican, have been critical of the Pentagon's management of the war. After their meetings today, they both expressed cautious optimism.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: I think we have an opportunity to succeed and I want to emphasize again, there's none of us who have visited here who wish to understate or under-appreciate the enormity of the task that lies ahead of us. SEN. HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON (D), NEW YORK: The impression that I take away from just this short visit after talking with, not only government officials, but some of our military and civilian leaders here in Iraq is cautious optimism. Cautious, because there are so many challenges ahead.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KOPPEL: The senators are scheduled to visit several military bases in Iraq before heading home.

In coastal Indonesia, a strong earthquake, earlier today, sent panic residents fleeing for -- their homes for higher ground. The quake with a magnitude of 6.5 was centered in eastern Indonesia, more than 1,000 miles from the region devastated from the tsunami. So far, there are no reports of major damage or injuries.

The quake rattled the region ahead of former presidents Bush and Clinton's tour in Thailand. The two are helping lead tsunami relief efforts in the U.S., designed to provide aid to tsunami victims. Aneesh Raman is in Phuket, Thailand to give us the latest on the president's tour and he joins us by video phone with the latest -- Aneesh.

ANEESH RAMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Andrea, good afternoon to you. It is just after midnight in Phuket, bringing and end to day one of that trip. A day that was filled with both empathy and inspiration.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RAMAN (voice-over): Kicking off a three-day tour through the region, former presidents Clinton and Bush arrived in Phuket to witness firsthand the lingering aftermath of December's tsunami. In the village Ban Nam Khem, school children presented the two with drawings of the waves crashing down, waves that killed their parents.

GEORGE H. W. BUSH, FMR. PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The one that gave me hers had lost her mother and all of this puts a very human face on this tragedy.

RAMAN: But amidst the emotions, an inspirational site. The village, which lost close to half of its residents, is being reborn. The former presidents also laid a wreath at the Wall of Rembrance; all day, reminding people that despite their, at times contentious political history, this was a non-partisan human mission.

BILL CLINTON, FMR. PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATE: On issues about which there can be no debate. That little girl that gave him a picture, you know, of her mother drowning, that's not something to politically debate.

RAMAN: Days after the tsunami hit, the former president called on Clinton and Bush, Sr., to lead a fundraising effort from the United States. But now, almost two months since the disaster, this visit is meant to combat donor fatigue, reminding Americans that giving cannot stop and showing leaders in the region America remains ready to help. CLINTON: What we have to do now is not to forget these people in places when all the cameras are not there. I think that's the most important message I could say to the American people.

RAMAN: From Phuuket, the former presidents will travel onward to Indonesia and Sri Lanka on Sunday, before a final stop on Monday in the Maldives.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

RAMAN: And Andrea, for the tsunami survivors, this trip was essential in keeping focus on their plight, a plight that could be years, if not decades in the making -- Andrea.

KOPPEL: Aneesh Raman joining us from Phuket in Thailand. Thank you.

And make sure to join Wolf Blitzer tomorrow when he welcomes former presidents Clinton and Bush on "Late Edition." You can see that interview on "Late Edition" beginning tomorrow at Noon, Eastern.

China's military buildup is a growing concern for the United States. And a key part of that concern involves Taiwan. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice and Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld were holding talks on the issue with the key U.S. ally in east Asia, Japan. We get details now from CNN's Elaine Quijano at the White House.

So, of course, the big news was this new security pact on Taiwan.

ELAINE QUIJANO, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: That's right. The U.S. has been concerned that China is making moves to modernize its navy, that it's acquiring ballistic missiles, and some U.S. officials just this past week expressing concern that that would not only tip the balance of power in the Taiwan straight, but could also eventually, down the road, threaten U.S. forces there.

Now, as you mention today, Condoleezza Rice, secretary of state, as well as Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld meeting with their Japanese counterparts. Today, here in Washington to talk about China, but also another mutual point of concern, North Korea. There, of course, have been issues raised in recent days about North Korea saying it now has nuclear weapons. Well to day, Secretary of State Rice reiterated what the U.S. has said for some time. The U.S. believes that the best course of action is for North Korea to return to six-party talks. That, a move that she feels will improve North Korea's relations with the international community.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CONDOLEEZZA RICE, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: I think it would be a mistake to say that there is somehow a deeper concern today than there has been, but, of course, the North Koreans are continuing to bring about their own isolation by not dealing with this problem. The international community has been concerned with this for quite a long time. It is really time for the North Koreans to take seriously that concern, return to the six-party talks and begin to address the international system's concern.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

QUIJANO: Now, at that same news conference, Secretary Rice noted that in the past, even in past administrations, the bilateral approach with North Korea, she said, has not been effective. And so, again, she reiterated what the U.S. policy on North Korea has been. Now, all of this is taken place as President Bush, here at the White House, gets ready to head overseas. He will be meeting with European allies there and, as you know, Andrea, try to mend some fences. There are still some lingering sore feelings over the Iraq war. The president will be meeting with some of those who are most ardently opposed to that, but the president will say to those European allies that he believes there is common ground. There are places, he believes, where the U.S. can work with European allies, places like the Middle East. There are concerns, of course, about Iran as well. So, all those issues on the table as President Bush heads overseas in the coming days -- Andrea.

KOPPEL: Elaine Quijano at the White House. Thanks, Elaine.

Big guns and your security: With bullets the size of a small artillery shell, the .50 caliber gun has been surprised as the perfect terrorist weapon. But, you'd be surprised at how easy it is to buy one. CNN investigates.

Also, these guys have helped Americans avoid a world of pain. We'll revisit an inventor's legacy, a bit later, but first:

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHNNY THARP, FATHER OF JASON THARP: I don't know how they could treat my son the way we saw in that video. He never hurt nobody. He'd do anything anybody asked him. It's just not right.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KOPPEL: The mystery surrounding a young Marine recruit's death during a water training exercise. This is CNN LIVE SATURDAY.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KOPPEL: The Marine Corps says an investigation is pending into the death of a recruit at Paris Island 11 days ago. Jason Tharp drowned during water survival training, a day after a tense confrontation between the recruit and a drill instructor was captured on videotape. With a look at what happened, our Jason Bellini.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JASON BELLINI, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The video shows Marine recruit Jason Tharp standing next to the pool as he's grabbed by his boot camp drill instructor. Tharp walks out of frame, when he returns, his drill instructor strikes him. Columbia, South Carolina affiliate WIS shot the video of Tharp from a distance, so there's no sound. WIS found out later the Marine its camera had focused on died the very next day.

A Marine official at Paris Island says he died as a result of "complications in the water," unquote, during combat water survival training.

THARP: It's just the most kindest, gentlest person I knew.

BELLINI: WIS showed its video to Tharp's parents who live in West Virginia.

THARP: I don't know how they could treat my son the way we saw in that video. He never hurt nobody. He'd do anything anybody asked him. It's just not right.

BELLINI: Marine officials at the Pentagon say the actions by the drill instructor seen in the video appear to violate regulations for dealing with recruits.

EUGENE FIDELL, NATL. INSTITUTE OF MILITARY JUSTICE: Basically, you're not suppose today lay your hands on a recruit. You don't really want to have drill instructors grabbing a recruit by the collar, which is what happened here. And also, you don't want them, basically, hitting people with their elbows.

BELLINI: Tharp's drill instructor has been suspended from training pending an investigation. During his five weeks at Paris Island, Tharp told his family that he wanted out of the Marines.

THARP: We just wanted to get us down there right then and get him and bring him home.

BELLINI: In his last letter, postmarked February 2, Tharp wrote he was starting swim qualifications the next day. Tharp died February 8.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did Jason know how to swim?

THARP: Not very good. But they assured us, the recruiters, said that nothing would happen. They would have enough people in the pool where nothing would happen to him.

BELLINI: The Tharp's don't know if the physical contact the drill instructor had with their son related in any way to his death.

THARP: We can't understand why. And my little girl, all she knows is her big brother's in heaven.

BELLINI: The Marines expect to complete their investigation in several weeks. Jason Bellini, CNN.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KOPPEL: Our look at news across America begins as the Marines mark one of the most iconic moments of World War II. At Arlington National Cemetery the corps celebrates the 60th anniversary of battle of Iwo Jima. Taking the small Japanese Island was a key victory in the war. This morning's event took place at the Marines memorial depicting the raising of the U.S. flag on the island.

In Alabama, Vietnam vet, Robert Johnson, got something he lost nearly 40 years ago. An Illinois couple found his dog tags at a souvenir stand in Vietnam three years ago and worked to find Johnson to return them.

And in southern California, thunderstorms dump rain, high winds and hail while raising the threat of mud slides. It's the latest system in a particularly wet winter. The flooding forced the road closures and stopped some rail services. Not surprising, taking a look at that.

From the instruments of cool jazz to the threads of hip cats, they're all on the block this weekend in New York. We'll have a preview of the Definitive Jazz Auction when we return.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ROB MARCIANO, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Hi, I'm Rob Marciano at the CNN Weather Center. Time for your cold and flu report. These are latest numbers out of the CDC as of February 12. We're in it, my friends, the heart of the flu season, now peeking out over 25 states. So, more than half the states now in the red and a lot of blue showing up, meaning regional activity. The red wide-spread activity, a lot of folks are feeling sniffles at the very least and then widespread reports of seeing the flu.

Hope you're feeling well today. Enjoy the rest of your weekend.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KOPPEL: It is enough to make jazz fans sing, sing, sing. You got to be a Benny Goodman fan to appreciate that. From Monk to Bird, Lady Day to Ella, the Definitive Jazz Auction is being held in New York, tomorrow. Arlan Ettinger with Guerney's (SIC) Auction House joins us with a preview of some of the treasures slated to fall under the hammer.

And I understand that you've told our producer this is bigger than Elvis.

ARLAN ETTINGER, GUERNSEY'S AUCTION HOUSE: The popularity from this country and around the world is just phenomenal. In this very same building another section is where the preview is ongoing. You can't get into the place. It's just fabulous.

KOPPEL: Well, tell us about it, because I know we've got some video of some of these, and photographs of some of the items. I think the first one we have is Lionel Hampton's King George vibraphone. First of all, what is it vibraphone, and why is this so special?

ETTINGER: Lionel Hampton, the most famous of all players of this type keyboard, used this in instrument, it's a uniquely designed instrument, art deco, only one in the world, played it throughout his career. It's pictured in motion pictures, it's an extraordinary instrument. I don't know what else to say.

KOPPEL: It's one of a kind. And how much do you think that'll fetch?

ETTINGER: You know, like most of the items in this auction, it has no minimum reserve, and without any precedent before it, it's very hard to say. So, I hate to say it, but your guess is as good as ours.

KOPPEL: OK, from instruments to sheet music, John Coltrane had a "Love Supreme" that you apparently are going to be auctioning off with his -- his own, I guess, his own handwriting there on the left for some of the liner jacket. Is that right? The liner notes?

ETTINGER: We have a great body of paper in this auction, handwritten music by many legendary performers. But, of particular interest is Coltrane's work and many know of "Love Supreme" to his masterpiece and being it was a work that many consider one of the greatest works of music of any form of the 20th century. And we have pages where he worked out the music and his spiritual thoughts in creating this wonderful, important work.

KOPPEL: In case people are interested in bidding on that one, apparently the estimate for his sheet music there is $100,000. So, a lot of the prices on this will be kind of steep for folks who maybe think they can get a deal. Let's move on to John Coltrane's saxophones.

ETTINGER: Well, we have Coltrane's saxophones, Charlie Parker's saxophones, Stan Getz, Jerry Mulligan, but they're all treasures and it depends on who was your favorite musician to say which is the greatest one of them all, because they are all wonderful treasures. We have three Coltrane saxophones: His alto, soprano, and tenor saxes in this auction.

KOPPEL: Just out of curiosity, do you think that most of the people who would buy these - these items, and especially a saxophone, would they be buying it to put it in a case or to play it?

ETTINGER: Well, firstly, there are many museums that have established interest in the sale, and universities, but collectors as well. And I think in this instance, I just had occasion, a few minutes ago, to pick up one of these up to show it to a group of people and it took about two seconds to have 100 people around me. But, I somehow believe that wherever this goes, it will find some lips again.

KOPPEL: Well, speaking of lips, you have Felonius' jacket -- Felonius -- Felonius Monk's smoking jacket, which his family says was, apparently, one of his favorite items to wear when he was on stage.

ETTINGER: It, with many other things in this auction, is definitely very cool. And we have many pictures of Monk wearing it. Like most of the items in this auction, and it's come directly from the families, which is so unique, that they've never seen the light of day in sort of an average of half a century and that is absolutely unique. They were treasured by the families and now they're going to be treasured by the public.

KOPPEL: Why are the families deciding to auction this up? Is this purely about making money or do they hope that the public will be able to enjoy them if, as you say, they end up in museums?

ETTINGER: If it were just about the money, these things would have left the family's hands decades ago, but they have been treasured items. And now, as they see it, with much of the money going to foundations like the Coltrane Foundation or Benny Goodman Foundation or Louie Armstrong Foundation, they're hoping that young musicians, students can benefit from the scholarships these foundations provide. So, I think this is the most generous demonstration I've ever seen of love for jazz in the past and hopes for its future. It certainly seems very strong from our perspective.

KOPPEL: One -- one, I'm sorry. One final item we have that we have that we want to show our viewers is Benny Goodman's b-flat clarinet. Tell us about this.

ETTINGER: Well, it sounds like you're listening to it right now and like everything else in the sale it's come from his family and we have, not only, his clarinet, but we have Benny's very natty (PH) tales, you know, and his tuxedos, in the sale, so you got to see this setup to believe it, but it's very sharp.

KOPPEL: What is, in your opinion, the coolest item that's going to on the block this weekend?

ETTINGER: Such an impossible question from Coltrane's fifth grade notebook where he talked about amazing African-American musicians, even back then, to the murals famous Franz Kline, the famous abstract expressionist artist, the jazz murals. It's a tough question to answer.

KOPPEL: Well, I'm sorry for asking that, but I'm sure, you know, people are going to want to know. If they're not already in New York, can they participate by the internet? Is this something you're doing or do you have to be there in person?

ETTINGER: No, the sales taking place at the stunningly beautiful new home for jazz at Lincoln Center, Frederick P. Rose Hall, but if you can't be here go to Guernsey's website which will direct link you to eBay live auctions where, yet, you can register and still participate.

KOPPEL: Alan (SIC) Ettinger with Gurney's (SIC) Auction House, we thank you for coming in to help preview the auction. It sounds like it's going to be a lot of fun and hopefully we'll get to see a lot of those pieces in future in museums.

ETTINGER: My pleasure.

KOPPEL: And we'll have lots more for you on CNN LIVE SATURDAY coming up right out of this break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANDREA KOPPEL, CNN ANCHOR, CNN LIVE SATURDAY: Checking stories "Now in the News": Insurgents in Iraq aren't letting one of the holiest days for Shiite Muslims keep them from launching more bloody attacks. Nearly two dozen people are dead after a flurry of suicide bombings and other attacks in Baghdad. An American soldier was among those killed. At least three deaths are reported in Baquba.

Former Presidents George Bush and Bill Clinton are getting a first-hand tour of the tsunami damage in Southern Asia. The two men are leading the U.S. effort to provide private aid to tsunami victims. Today they're in Thailand. Other stops include Indonesia, Sri Lanka and the Maldives.

In Washington, face-to-face meetings between the United States and a key ally in East Asia. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice and Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld and are holding talks with their Japanese counter parts. Key topics include China's military buildup and its possible threat to Taiwan.

Now to update this week's "Security Watch", a new homeland security report says many of the nation's ports are vulnerable, because the government has been slow to spend the $560 million earmarked for improvements. The study by the department's inspector general makes several recommendations to ensure the money goes to the most at risk facilities.

The government accountability office suggests moving explosive detection machines out of airport lobbies and linking them to airport conveyer baggage systems. A new GAO report says the move would save the government billions of dollars by reducing the number of screeners needed to inspect checked baggage.

CIA Director Porter Goss says Al Qaeda and other terrorist groups still pose a real threat to the U.S. He told a Senate committee Wednesday that it may only be a matter of time before terrorists get their hands on chemical, biological or nuclear weapons.

Turning now to more conventional weapons, we're going to focus on the most powerful weapon you can legally own in the United States. It's a .50 caliber rifle, so powerful it can kill a man half a mile away. So deadly, the state of California it has banned it. CNN's Drew Griffin has the story of buying, arming, and shooting this top. He did it all legally without a background check, without a license of any kind, without leaving his home.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DREW GRIFFIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: To buy a gun, even a .50 caliber gun, you just need to go to your computer and click on one of the biggest classified gun sites, which is in our case, is gunsamerica.com.

AK-47s, shotguns, pistols, all kinds of rifles, but what we wanted to buy was the biggest caliber rifle you could possibly buy. That's this category right here, big .50 caliber rifle. This is the gun now banned in California. And on this website, we have about three dozen of them for sale.

But what we're looking for is one that is not being sold by a dealer. See where it says federal licensed firearm dealer? We are trying to find one being sold by just a private citizen. This is actually the gun we bought.

When you finally find the gun you want on this website and you're dealing with a private party, you just give him your e-mail and send him a note. Let's set up a meeting. I am paying cash. The next thing you know, we're going to buy our gun.

(Voice over): But before I shelled out $2,500 to buy this gun, I wanted to make sure I could buy ammunition. That turned out to be as easy as ordering flowers. With just a couple of clicks on my computer, I ordered and paid by credit card for 50, .50-caliber armor piercing rounds. They were delivered in a week, shells as long as my hands, no questions asked by UPS. I could have even bought tracer rounds if I had wanted. Now it was time to get the gun.

(On camera): What we're about to do is perfectly legal in dozens of states where cash and carry is the rule. A private seller, a private buyer. There will be no background check, no government- waiting period, no government paperwork at all. In fact, the only paper that will change hands is the money we use to buy our .50 caliber rifle.

(Voice over): The transaction at a house in suburban Houston took about 20 minutes. We walked out with a case holding the gun critics say is the perfect terrorist weapon: a brand new .50 caliber rifle, with scope, by-pod and directions. We flew home. Guns are check as baggage. And when the bags arrive for hour flight, I simply picked it up and left.

Ronny Barrett, who manufactures .50-caliber rifles believes as an American, it is your right to own one.

GRIFFIN (on camera): Isn't that particular gun in the hands of a terrorist dangerous?

RONNIE BARRETT, BARRETT MANUFACTURING: We're not talking about terrorists. We're disarming here civilians. These laws have nothing to do with terrorism.

GRIFFIN (voice over): Barrett's company makes one of the most popular and top of the line .50-caliber rifles on the market. A semi- automatic favored by armies around the world. Barrett says his company couldn't survive on military orders alone and what keeps all these workers busy is its popularity among recreational shooters.

Barrett says it may be effective on the battlefield, but on the target range, it's just plain fun.

GRIFFIN (on camera): Should there be any regulations on your guns?

BARRETT: There should be regulations on criminals.

GRIFFIN (voice over): Gun control advocates want a federal ban on this weapon. Their reasoning: anything that can hit a target at a thousand yards with the bullet the size of a small artillery shell could certainly pose a major threat to aircraft.

(On camera): But the question at most of the nation's airports is not what you could do with a .50-caliber gun at 1,000 yards. Here at LAX, a would-be terrorist could get within less than 1,000 feet.

This week at a police gun range, I found out what this gun could do to the emergency exit door of a Boeing 727, fired from 1,000 feet away. The gun is very heavy, not easy to maneuver, but took only a few moments to set up. The first time I fired it, I missed. After adjusting for the sight, round after armor piercing round went straight through the door. But just about any gun could pierce the thin aluminum skin of an airplane. What scares law enforcement is what else this round can do when fired from this gun.

This is a one-inch thick piece of steel plate, more protects than almost any armored car. The .50 caliber goes right through the aircraft door and right through one inch steel.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Wow! Right through.

GRIFFIN: Right through it, baby. That's where it came out. That's where it went in, one-inch steel plate.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Unbelievable. That's just unbelievable.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KOPPEL: And they bought it all on the Internet. That was Drew Griffin reporting. Stay tuned to CNN day and night for the most reliable news about your security.

A blockbuster of a lawsuit. Coming up, why the video rental giant is being sued and we'll look at the family tree of crash test dummies and how they have helped save the lives of real people.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KOPPEL: In business headlines this week a telecom bidding war. Verizon announced it would buy MCI for $6.8 billion. Now Qwest is sweetening its offer to $8 billion. Stay tuned.

Fed Chairman Alan Greenspan told Congress this week to look for another round of interest rate increases. He gave a qualified endorsement for President Bush's Social Security overhaul, but urged a go slow approach.

On Wall Street, a ho-hum week. The Dow, Nasdaq and S&P 500 moved slightly lower for the week. Well, it sounded like a good idea, but one state says Blockbuster's new no-late fees policy amounts to a scam and is suing the big movie rental chain. Financial Correspondent Chris Huntington looks at the controversy.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CHRIS HUNTINGTON, CNN FINANCIAL CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Last month with much fanfare, Blockbuster rolled out its new no-late fee policy. The nation's number one video rental chain spent $50 million to put the new plan into practice. Now it may cost the company even more.

The attorney general of New Jersey says Blockbuster is deceiving customers, hooking them with a false promise, and not clearly disclosing other fees. For instance, any Blockbuster video or game rental eight days late is converted automatically into a sale, billed to the customer's credit card, typically a charge of around $15 to $25.

PETER HARVEY, NEW JERSEY ATTORNEY GENERAL: We believe that all of these practices by Blockbuster violate New Jersey's consumer fraud act. These practices are unconscionable.

HUNTINGTON: Blockbuster points out that all of its rental terms are disclosed in its stores, on pamphlets handed to customers and on its web site. A Blockbuster spokeswoman told CNN, "The fact is there are no longer late fees at Blockbuster. We're surprised that the New Jersey state attorney general never contacted us about this. We're disappointed in this action, because we believe it's a terrific program and we've received a lot of positive feedback from customers and employees.

One customer at a Blockbuster in Hoboken, New Jersey seemed to disagree.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think it is deceptive. How often do you pick up a pamphlet on late fees when you go in to rent something?

HUNTINGTON: Blockbuster used to earn $100s of millions on late fees, but analysts say the company dropped those fees because it was losing customers to competitors such as the mail order service Netflix, which never charged late fees. Blockbuster insists it only wanted to build goodwill.

STACEY WIDLITZ, FULCRUM GLOBAL PARTNERS: Yes, you create goodwill of ending late fees of $3 a day. On the other hand, you may annoy your consumer who sees their credit card bill and says what's happening? I've been charged the entire retail price.

HUNTINGTON (on camera): The lawsuit does seek damages and in fact, restitution and penalties up to $10,000 for each infraction that can be proven. Chris Huntington, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE) And there is more business news at the top of the hour. Jack Cafferty is your host for "In The Money" that is every Saturday at 1:00 pm Eastern.

You're watching CNN LIVE SATURDAY. Still ahead, the adventure of a lifetime and it is within your reach. See how and when. CNN LIVE SATURDAY continues.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

Mount Kilimanjaro is Africa's tallest peak, towering 19,000 feet over the savannahs of Kenya and Tanzania, it is known as the world's tallest free standing mountain and offers a snow cap tip right near the Earth's equator.

"TravelGirl" magazine will report on Africa in upcoming issues. One staffer made the trek to Kilimanjaro to write about the mountain. Stephanie Oswald is an editor at "TravelGirl" magazine. She is here in Atlanta to tell us about the trip.

What an incredible time it must have been.

STEPHAN OSWALD, EDITOR, "TRAVELGIRL" MAGAZINE: It was absolutely amazing. Africa is such a fabulous destination. It's one of the places we've seen all these trends. People really want to go out and do some strong adventure. Africa is a fabulous destination. I brought some pictures with me today, from the trip.

KOPPEL: Great, I know we want to talk about some of the animals that you saw on your safari. I guess you did this safari after?

OSWALD: We did. There's a zebra right there. We did the safari, which is the typical -- everyone thinks of Africa and going on safari. We were in the Serengeti and we saw some incredible pictures. The animals -- you're able to get so close to them. You will see some pictures coming up of the Jeep we were in, where...

KOPPEL: It looks like it was rushing you there.

OSWALD: It was. It was coming right at the Jeep. We never felt scared. It's one of those amazing destinations. I was so surprised. We saw so many animals. We were there during the migration, so we saw about a million wildebeests.

KOPPEL: Really? That is the best time of year to go, I'm told. There is your jeep. Tell us about actually climbing Kilimanjaro. How much training do you have to do ahead of time?

OSWALD: We did a lot of training. We did probably eight months of training.

I think I have climbed every trail in Georgia, but we hiked all the way from the bottom through all the different climates up to 19,340 feet up. It was really exciting.

Again, I have pictures from the trip. We took a route called the "Wrong Guy" route. There are six different routes you can take when you're going up Kilimanjaro. And the one we took was six days, five nights, camping, very rugged. And along the way, it starts out -- that's day one of our trip right there.

KOPPEL: How many of you were there in your group?

OSWALD: There were seven of us in the group. We had 26 porters.

KOPPEL: Because they had to carry all of your gear?

OSWALD: Exactly.

KOPPEL: Your food?

OSWALD: Exactly.

KOPPEL: Oh, 26 of them?

OSWALD: A lot of people said to me, oh, 26 porters, that sounds like luxury. Let me tell you, it's not luxury. It's very rugged. The reason we have 26 porters, is because they had to carry our food. They had to carry everything, the tents. They had a kitchen we would go in every day to eat.

This right here is a view -- these are all scenes of what we saw along the way. We drove five hours on a dusty road to get to the start of the hike. Then the hike was, again, five days up to the top of the mountain. You can see the clouds rolling in over the mountain.

KOPPEL: What was it like when you got to the top? Some people have been disappointed. They get up there and it's foggy and they didn't get to see anything. Did you have a view?

OSWALD: We had an incredible view, Andrea. It was absolutely stunning. All along the way we saw something new, different flowers and animals. We saw little salamanders one day, we saw little yellow flowers another day.

This is Muwemsi (ph) Peak, which is just an incredible scene that joined us every day of the trip. Muwemsi (ph) is another mountain. And actually, the night of the summit, there was a point our guide said to us you are now as high as that mountain. That was a thrill to know we had hiked as high as that mountain.

KOPPEL: Would you do it again?

OSWALD: Absolutely.

KOPPEL: Are you bitten by the mountain bug now?

OSWALD: I would absolutely do it again. As I said, Africa is such a thrill. I'm hoping we could show you the pictures from the top, because the sun rise at the top of the mountain, the summit, that's absolutely incredible. That's me. You can't tell, because I'm covered up with so many clothes, but it was a true thrill. And there are ways you can see Africa with luxury as well. We'll be covering those adventures as well in "Travel Girl" in the months ahead.

KOPPEL: Wonderful. Well, congratulations. Thumbs up. You must have been euphoric when you finally got up there after six days of roughing it.

OSWALD: It was incredible. The ice cap is just stunning.

KOPPEL: If people want to learn more about it, they can read "TravelGirl" magazine.

OSWALD: That's right. Our website is travelgirlinc.com. They can check that out.

KOPPEL: Terrific. We have to go, Stephanie. Thank you so much.

OSWALD: Thank you.

KOPPEL: Stephanie Oswald.

They go through car accidents and plane crashes. But come back for more. Crash test dummies and the creator who helped them come to life. We have that straight ahead on CNN LIVE SATURDAY.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KOPPEL: You may not know his name or his face, but Samuel Alderson is riding up front in contemporary culture. He is the one who invented the crash test dummy. Alderson died earlier this month at the age of 90. CNN's Paula Zahn remembers his legacy and also his devices that are credited with saving thousands of lives.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PAULA ZAHN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): They do some of the hardest work on earth, but somehow they're always in a good mood.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Really? I hadn't noticed.

ZAHN: When they get into a crash, no one even calls an ambulance for them. They're never charged with causing an accident or leaving the scene. And even after going through a dozen crashes in one day, they still have that ridiculous grin.

More than 50 years ago, Samuel Alderson began creating test dummies, first for the Air Force. Later for carmakers. Nowadays, dummies test everything from construction equipment to golf balls to plane crashes.

This test was a controlled crash landing done for NASA. You can see why it's hard to recruit live volunteers for this kind of work. After 50 years of evolution, this is the standard model. The Hybrid III, the 50th percentile male, 5'7" tall, 172 pounds. He is the product of decades of dummy research with vinyl skin, a rubber neck, steel ribs and a body cavity full of sensors.

He sometimes works naked, but he is not embarrassed. Those yellow birthmarks are used by scientists to measure exactly how badly he gets banged up in each crash. Over the years, it dawned on dummy makers that 170 pound men are not the only people who ride in cars. So, they developed entire dummy families to go out and crash together. Tall ones. Short ones. Skinny ones. Kids, toddlers and now even pregnant women.

The smartest dummies cost more than $100,000. Of course, there's also the expense of crashing hundreds of cars every year. But the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration estimates that since 1960, more than 300,000 lives have been saved by seat belts, air bags, and other safety features designed with test results from dummies. Then there's the glamour.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, baby!

ZAHN: Volvo made a short film about how Clive fell in love with Whiplash Mary. Vince and Larry became stars thanks to their ads with celebrities like the late Ray Charles.

And they even had a band named after them in the '90s, the Crash- Test Dummies. The band only had one or two hits. But full-time dummies can often have several hits in just one day. They strap in, crash, hit the air bag and come back for more.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KOPPEL: And that's why they're called dummies.

There is more ahead on CNN SATURDAY. In a few moments, "In The Money" with Jack Cafferty and then at 2:00 Eastern, on CNN Live Saturday, former senator, now law and order mainstay, J. Fred Thompson goes into the "Novak Zone". Then at 3:00 it's "Next @ CNN. I'll be back right back with a check of the headlines after a break.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com


Aired February 19, 2005 - 12:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANDREA KOPPEL, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Andrea Koppel in for Fredricka Whitfield. Ahead, CNN shows you how easy it is to buy a weapon that could be devastating in the hands of a terrorist. How devastating?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's where it came out. That's where it went in -- one inch steel plate.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KOPPEL: Also, this is this hour, it could potentially bring down an airplane. Why is it so easy to buy?

And, ahead, putting themselves where they've asked you to put your money: Two former presidents visit the region hit by the December tsunami and CNN is there.

Plus, Benny Goodman's clarinet, Louie Armstrong's trumpet, they can be yours. We'll preview an auction that is a jazz fan's "Love Supreme." But, first a look at the top stories in the news, now.

In Dallas, Texas, crews fought a five-alarm blaze in an empty apartment building near Love Field Airport. It isn't known what triggered the fire in the seven-story building, but smoke from the building could be seen for some distance. There were no known injuries.

A second deadly day of attacks in Iraq during the Shiite holy period of Ashurah. At least 23 people were killed in five separate bombings in Baghdad. Another attack in Baquba claimed three lives. We'll have the latest, live from Iraq, coming up in just a minute.

But first, North Korea announced today there is now no justification for bilateral talks with his the U.S. over itself nuclear program. A Chinese news agency reports the North Korea government blamed a hostile U.S. policy for retracting an earlier offer made for one-on-one talks. The U.S. already rejected that offer.

The NHL season was canceled Wednesday. Or was it? The players association and owners are gathering in New York to discuss a deal that could possibly, possibly, bring puck playback this season. Keeping you informed, CNN, the most trusted name in news.

First to Iraq where, despite heavy security, violence ramps up as Shiites mark the solemn holy day of Ashurah. And a five member U.S. congressional delegation arrives in Baghdad. CNN's senior international correspondent Nic Robertson is there live in the Iraqi capital.

So, a busy day, Nic.

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SR. INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Andrea, indeed. Eight suicide bombers counted in Baghdad, today. The main attacks happening around a shrine in Baghdad, a holy shrine for Shia worshippers as they were commemorating the Ashurah festival. Many of them were out on the street. Security was very, very tight, but an insurgent fired a rocket propelled grenade at a police vehicle. U.S. troops and Iraqi security forces moved in to secure the area close to the mosque north of Baghdad. At that moment, a suicide bomber stepped on a bus or was on a bus already, detonated his explosives, killing one U.S. soldier, wounding another, also killing four Iraqis, wounding 22 others in that blast.

There had been other attacks, three suicide bombers, again, approaching a group of worshippers as they were walking down the -- as they were walking down the road. The suicide bombers there killing five people, wounding -- wounding 40 others.

Another attack later in the afternoon, three suicide bombers, again, approaching a checkpoint close to -- close to marches. There, in that case, one person killed, an Iraqi soldier, as he tried to detain one of the suicide bombers. The other suicide bomber shot dead, the other one being detained. And earlier in the day, a suicide bomber on a bicycle had attacked a grathering (SIC) for a funeral. He rode his bicycle inside the tent where the funeral -- where the funeral was being commemorated. He detonated his explosives, killing three people, wounding 38 inside that tent.

Security high, but what marks this day different to last year where more than 141 Shia's were killed around these Ashurah commutations, no attacks in the holy city of Karbala, an indication, perhaps, that the security there, the Iraqi security, has kept insurgents at bay -- Andrea.

KOPPEL: Nic Robertson in Baghdad. Thank you.

As we mentioned earlier, a U.S. senate delegation is in Iraq today meeting U.S. military leaders, Iraqi officials, and local women leaders. Senator John McCain is leading the bipartisan group, that includes senators Susan Collins, Lindsey Graham, Hillary Rodham Clinton, and Russ Feingold. Both Clinton, a democrat, and McCain, a republican, have been critical of the Pentagon's management of the war. After their meetings today, they both expressed cautious optimism.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: I think we have an opportunity to succeed and I want to emphasize again, there's none of us who have visited here who wish to understate or under-appreciate the enormity of the task that lies ahead of us. SEN. HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON (D), NEW YORK: The impression that I take away from just this short visit after talking with, not only government officials, but some of our military and civilian leaders here in Iraq is cautious optimism. Cautious, because there are so many challenges ahead.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KOPPEL: The senators are scheduled to visit several military bases in Iraq before heading home.

In coastal Indonesia, a strong earthquake, earlier today, sent panic residents fleeing for -- their homes for higher ground. The quake with a magnitude of 6.5 was centered in eastern Indonesia, more than 1,000 miles from the region devastated from the tsunami. So far, there are no reports of major damage or injuries.

The quake rattled the region ahead of former presidents Bush and Clinton's tour in Thailand. The two are helping lead tsunami relief efforts in the U.S., designed to provide aid to tsunami victims. Aneesh Raman is in Phuket, Thailand to give us the latest on the president's tour and he joins us by video phone with the latest -- Aneesh.

ANEESH RAMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Andrea, good afternoon to you. It is just after midnight in Phuket, bringing and end to day one of that trip. A day that was filled with both empathy and inspiration.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RAMAN (voice-over): Kicking off a three-day tour through the region, former presidents Clinton and Bush arrived in Phuket to witness firsthand the lingering aftermath of December's tsunami. In the village Ban Nam Khem, school children presented the two with drawings of the waves crashing down, waves that killed their parents.

GEORGE H. W. BUSH, FMR. PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The one that gave me hers had lost her mother and all of this puts a very human face on this tragedy.

RAMAN: But amidst the emotions, an inspirational site. The village, which lost close to half of its residents, is being reborn. The former presidents also laid a wreath at the Wall of Rembrance; all day, reminding people that despite their, at times contentious political history, this was a non-partisan human mission.

BILL CLINTON, FMR. PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATE: On issues about which there can be no debate. That little girl that gave him a picture, you know, of her mother drowning, that's not something to politically debate.

RAMAN: Days after the tsunami hit, the former president called on Clinton and Bush, Sr., to lead a fundraising effort from the United States. But now, almost two months since the disaster, this visit is meant to combat donor fatigue, reminding Americans that giving cannot stop and showing leaders in the region America remains ready to help. CLINTON: What we have to do now is not to forget these people in places when all the cameras are not there. I think that's the most important message I could say to the American people.

RAMAN: From Phuuket, the former presidents will travel onward to Indonesia and Sri Lanka on Sunday, before a final stop on Monday in the Maldives.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

RAMAN: And Andrea, for the tsunami survivors, this trip was essential in keeping focus on their plight, a plight that could be years, if not decades in the making -- Andrea.

KOPPEL: Aneesh Raman joining us from Phuket in Thailand. Thank you.

And make sure to join Wolf Blitzer tomorrow when he welcomes former presidents Clinton and Bush on "Late Edition." You can see that interview on "Late Edition" beginning tomorrow at Noon, Eastern.

China's military buildup is a growing concern for the United States. And a key part of that concern involves Taiwan. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice and Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld were holding talks on the issue with the key U.S. ally in east Asia, Japan. We get details now from CNN's Elaine Quijano at the White House.

So, of course, the big news was this new security pact on Taiwan.

ELAINE QUIJANO, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: That's right. The U.S. has been concerned that China is making moves to modernize its navy, that it's acquiring ballistic missiles, and some U.S. officials just this past week expressing concern that that would not only tip the balance of power in the Taiwan straight, but could also eventually, down the road, threaten U.S. forces there.

Now, as you mention today, Condoleezza Rice, secretary of state, as well as Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld meeting with their Japanese counterparts. Today, here in Washington to talk about China, but also another mutual point of concern, North Korea. There, of course, have been issues raised in recent days about North Korea saying it now has nuclear weapons. Well to day, Secretary of State Rice reiterated what the U.S. has said for some time. The U.S. believes that the best course of action is for North Korea to return to six-party talks. That, a move that she feels will improve North Korea's relations with the international community.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CONDOLEEZZA RICE, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: I think it would be a mistake to say that there is somehow a deeper concern today than there has been, but, of course, the North Koreans are continuing to bring about their own isolation by not dealing with this problem. The international community has been concerned with this for quite a long time. It is really time for the North Koreans to take seriously that concern, return to the six-party talks and begin to address the international system's concern.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

QUIJANO: Now, at that same news conference, Secretary Rice noted that in the past, even in past administrations, the bilateral approach with North Korea, she said, has not been effective. And so, again, she reiterated what the U.S. policy on North Korea has been. Now, all of this is taken place as President Bush, here at the White House, gets ready to head overseas. He will be meeting with European allies there and, as you know, Andrea, try to mend some fences. There are still some lingering sore feelings over the Iraq war. The president will be meeting with some of those who are most ardently opposed to that, but the president will say to those European allies that he believes there is common ground. There are places, he believes, where the U.S. can work with European allies, places like the Middle East. There are concerns, of course, about Iran as well. So, all those issues on the table as President Bush heads overseas in the coming days -- Andrea.

KOPPEL: Elaine Quijano at the White House. Thanks, Elaine.

Big guns and your security: With bullets the size of a small artillery shell, the .50 caliber gun has been surprised as the perfect terrorist weapon. But, you'd be surprised at how easy it is to buy one. CNN investigates.

Also, these guys have helped Americans avoid a world of pain. We'll revisit an inventor's legacy, a bit later, but first:

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHNNY THARP, FATHER OF JASON THARP: I don't know how they could treat my son the way we saw in that video. He never hurt nobody. He'd do anything anybody asked him. It's just not right.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KOPPEL: The mystery surrounding a young Marine recruit's death during a water training exercise. This is CNN LIVE SATURDAY.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KOPPEL: The Marine Corps says an investigation is pending into the death of a recruit at Paris Island 11 days ago. Jason Tharp drowned during water survival training, a day after a tense confrontation between the recruit and a drill instructor was captured on videotape. With a look at what happened, our Jason Bellini.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JASON BELLINI, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The video shows Marine recruit Jason Tharp standing next to the pool as he's grabbed by his boot camp drill instructor. Tharp walks out of frame, when he returns, his drill instructor strikes him. Columbia, South Carolina affiliate WIS shot the video of Tharp from a distance, so there's no sound. WIS found out later the Marine its camera had focused on died the very next day.

A Marine official at Paris Island says he died as a result of "complications in the water," unquote, during combat water survival training.

THARP: It's just the most kindest, gentlest person I knew.

BELLINI: WIS showed its video to Tharp's parents who live in West Virginia.

THARP: I don't know how they could treat my son the way we saw in that video. He never hurt nobody. He'd do anything anybody asked him. It's just not right.

BELLINI: Marine officials at the Pentagon say the actions by the drill instructor seen in the video appear to violate regulations for dealing with recruits.

EUGENE FIDELL, NATL. INSTITUTE OF MILITARY JUSTICE: Basically, you're not suppose today lay your hands on a recruit. You don't really want to have drill instructors grabbing a recruit by the collar, which is what happened here. And also, you don't want them, basically, hitting people with their elbows.

BELLINI: Tharp's drill instructor has been suspended from training pending an investigation. During his five weeks at Paris Island, Tharp told his family that he wanted out of the Marines.

THARP: We just wanted to get us down there right then and get him and bring him home.

BELLINI: In his last letter, postmarked February 2, Tharp wrote he was starting swim qualifications the next day. Tharp died February 8.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did Jason know how to swim?

THARP: Not very good. But they assured us, the recruiters, said that nothing would happen. They would have enough people in the pool where nothing would happen to him.

BELLINI: The Tharp's don't know if the physical contact the drill instructor had with their son related in any way to his death.

THARP: We can't understand why. And my little girl, all she knows is her big brother's in heaven.

BELLINI: The Marines expect to complete their investigation in several weeks. Jason Bellini, CNN.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KOPPEL: Our look at news across America begins as the Marines mark one of the most iconic moments of World War II. At Arlington National Cemetery the corps celebrates the 60th anniversary of battle of Iwo Jima. Taking the small Japanese Island was a key victory in the war. This morning's event took place at the Marines memorial depicting the raising of the U.S. flag on the island.

In Alabama, Vietnam vet, Robert Johnson, got something he lost nearly 40 years ago. An Illinois couple found his dog tags at a souvenir stand in Vietnam three years ago and worked to find Johnson to return them.

And in southern California, thunderstorms dump rain, high winds and hail while raising the threat of mud slides. It's the latest system in a particularly wet winter. The flooding forced the road closures and stopped some rail services. Not surprising, taking a look at that.

From the instruments of cool jazz to the threads of hip cats, they're all on the block this weekend in New York. We'll have a preview of the Definitive Jazz Auction when we return.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ROB MARCIANO, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Hi, I'm Rob Marciano at the CNN Weather Center. Time for your cold and flu report. These are latest numbers out of the CDC as of February 12. We're in it, my friends, the heart of the flu season, now peeking out over 25 states. So, more than half the states now in the red and a lot of blue showing up, meaning regional activity. The red wide-spread activity, a lot of folks are feeling sniffles at the very least and then widespread reports of seeing the flu.

Hope you're feeling well today. Enjoy the rest of your weekend.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KOPPEL: It is enough to make jazz fans sing, sing, sing. You got to be a Benny Goodman fan to appreciate that. From Monk to Bird, Lady Day to Ella, the Definitive Jazz Auction is being held in New York, tomorrow. Arlan Ettinger with Guerney's (SIC) Auction House joins us with a preview of some of the treasures slated to fall under the hammer.

And I understand that you've told our producer this is bigger than Elvis.

ARLAN ETTINGER, GUERNSEY'S AUCTION HOUSE: The popularity from this country and around the world is just phenomenal. In this very same building another section is where the preview is ongoing. You can't get into the place. It's just fabulous.

KOPPEL: Well, tell us about it, because I know we've got some video of some of these, and photographs of some of the items. I think the first one we have is Lionel Hampton's King George vibraphone. First of all, what is it vibraphone, and why is this so special?

ETTINGER: Lionel Hampton, the most famous of all players of this type keyboard, used this in instrument, it's a uniquely designed instrument, art deco, only one in the world, played it throughout his career. It's pictured in motion pictures, it's an extraordinary instrument. I don't know what else to say.

KOPPEL: It's one of a kind. And how much do you think that'll fetch?

ETTINGER: You know, like most of the items in this auction, it has no minimum reserve, and without any precedent before it, it's very hard to say. So, I hate to say it, but your guess is as good as ours.

KOPPEL: OK, from instruments to sheet music, John Coltrane had a "Love Supreme" that you apparently are going to be auctioning off with his -- his own, I guess, his own handwriting there on the left for some of the liner jacket. Is that right? The liner notes?

ETTINGER: We have a great body of paper in this auction, handwritten music by many legendary performers. But, of particular interest is Coltrane's work and many know of "Love Supreme" to his masterpiece and being it was a work that many consider one of the greatest works of music of any form of the 20th century. And we have pages where he worked out the music and his spiritual thoughts in creating this wonderful, important work.

KOPPEL: In case people are interested in bidding on that one, apparently the estimate for his sheet music there is $100,000. So, a lot of the prices on this will be kind of steep for folks who maybe think they can get a deal. Let's move on to John Coltrane's saxophones.

ETTINGER: Well, we have Coltrane's saxophones, Charlie Parker's saxophones, Stan Getz, Jerry Mulligan, but they're all treasures and it depends on who was your favorite musician to say which is the greatest one of them all, because they are all wonderful treasures. We have three Coltrane saxophones: His alto, soprano, and tenor saxes in this auction.

KOPPEL: Just out of curiosity, do you think that most of the people who would buy these - these items, and especially a saxophone, would they be buying it to put it in a case or to play it?

ETTINGER: Well, firstly, there are many museums that have established interest in the sale, and universities, but collectors as well. And I think in this instance, I just had occasion, a few minutes ago, to pick up one of these up to show it to a group of people and it took about two seconds to have 100 people around me. But, I somehow believe that wherever this goes, it will find some lips again.

KOPPEL: Well, speaking of lips, you have Felonius' jacket -- Felonius -- Felonius Monk's smoking jacket, which his family says was, apparently, one of his favorite items to wear when he was on stage.

ETTINGER: It, with many other things in this auction, is definitely very cool. And we have many pictures of Monk wearing it. Like most of the items in this auction, and it's come directly from the families, which is so unique, that they've never seen the light of day in sort of an average of half a century and that is absolutely unique. They were treasured by the families and now they're going to be treasured by the public.

KOPPEL: Why are the families deciding to auction this up? Is this purely about making money or do they hope that the public will be able to enjoy them if, as you say, they end up in museums?

ETTINGER: If it were just about the money, these things would have left the family's hands decades ago, but they have been treasured items. And now, as they see it, with much of the money going to foundations like the Coltrane Foundation or Benny Goodman Foundation or Louie Armstrong Foundation, they're hoping that young musicians, students can benefit from the scholarships these foundations provide. So, I think this is the most generous demonstration I've ever seen of love for jazz in the past and hopes for its future. It certainly seems very strong from our perspective.

KOPPEL: One -- one, I'm sorry. One final item we have that we have that we want to show our viewers is Benny Goodman's b-flat clarinet. Tell us about this.

ETTINGER: Well, it sounds like you're listening to it right now and like everything else in the sale it's come from his family and we have, not only, his clarinet, but we have Benny's very natty (PH) tales, you know, and his tuxedos, in the sale, so you got to see this setup to believe it, but it's very sharp.

KOPPEL: What is, in your opinion, the coolest item that's going to on the block this weekend?

ETTINGER: Such an impossible question from Coltrane's fifth grade notebook where he talked about amazing African-American musicians, even back then, to the murals famous Franz Kline, the famous abstract expressionist artist, the jazz murals. It's a tough question to answer.

KOPPEL: Well, I'm sorry for asking that, but I'm sure, you know, people are going to want to know. If they're not already in New York, can they participate by the internet? Is this something you're doing or do you have to be there in person?

ETTINGER: No, the sales taking place at the stunningly beautiful new home for jazz at Lincoln Center, Frederick P. Rose Hall, but if you can't be here go to Guernsey's website which will direct link you to eBay live auctions where, yet, you can register and still participate.

KOPPEL: Alan (SIC) Ettinger with Gurney's (SIC) Auction House, we thank you for coming in to help preview the auction. It sounds like it's going to be a lot of fun and hopefully we'll get to see a lot of those pieces in future in museums.

ETTINGER: My pleasure.

KOPPEL: And we'll have lots more for you on CNN LIVE SATURDAY coming up right out of this break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANDREA KOPPEL, CNN ANCHOR, CNN LIVE SATURDAY: Checking stories "Now in the News": Insurgents in Iraq aren't letting one of the holiest days for Shiite Muslims keep them from launching more bloody attacks. Nearly two dozen people are dead after a flurry of suicide bombings and other attacks in Baghdad. An American soldier was among those killed. At least three deaths are reported in Baquba.

Former Presidents George Bush and Bill Clinton are getting a first-hand tour of the tsunami damage in Southern Asia. The two men are leading the U.S. effort to provide private aid to tsunami victims. Today they're in Thailand. Other stops include Indonesia, Sri Lanka and the Maldives.

In Washington, face-to-face meetings between the United States and a key ally in East Asia. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice and Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld and are holding talks with their Japanese counter parts. Key topics include China's military buildup and its possible threat to Taiwan.

Now to update this week's "Security Watch", a new homeland security report says many of the nation's ports are vulnerable, because the government has been slow to spend the $560 million earmarked for improvements. The study by the department's inspector general makes several recommendations to ensure the money goes to the most at risk facilities.

The government accountability office suggests moving explosive detection machines out of airport lobbies and linking them to airport conveyer baggage systems. A new GAO report says the move would save the government billions of dollars by reducing the number of screeners needed to inspect checked baggage.

CIA Director Porter Goss says Al Qaeda and other terrorist groups still pose a real threat to the U.S. He told a Senate committee Wednesday that it may only be a matter of time before terrorists get their hands on chemical, biological or nuclear weapons.

Turning now to more conventional weapons, we're going to focus on the most powerful weapon you can legally own in the United States. It's a .50 caliber rifle, so powerful it can kill a man half a mile away. So deadly, the state of California it has banned it. CNN's Drew Griffin has the story of buying, arming, and shooting this top. He did it all legally without a background check, without a license of any kind, without leaving his home.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DREW GRIFFIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: To buy a gun, even a .50 caliber gun, you just need to go to your computer and click on one of the biggest classified gun sites, which is in our case, is gunsamerica.com.

AK-47s, shotguns, pistols, all kinds of rifles, but what we wanted to buy was the biggest caliber rifle you could possibly buy. That's this category right here, big .50 caliber rifle. This is the gun now banned in California. And on this website, we have about three dozen of them for sale.

But what we're looking for is one that is not being sold by a dealer. See where it says federal licensed firearm dealer? We are trying to find one being sold by just a private citizen. This is actually the gun we bought.

When you finally find the gun you want on this website and you're dealing with a private party, you just give him your e-mail and send him a note. Let's set up a meeting. I am paying cash. The next thing you know, we're going to buy our gun.

(Voice over): But before I shelled out $2,500 to buy this gun, I wanted to make sure I could buy ammunition. That turned out to be as easy as ordering flowers. With just a couple of clicks on my computer, I ordered and paid by credit card for 50, .50-caliber armor piercing rounds. They were delivered in a week, shells as long as my hands, no questions asked by UPS. I could have even bought tracer rounds if I had wanted. Now it was time to get the gun.

(On camera): What we're about to do is perfectly legal in dozens of states where cash and carry is the rule. A private seller, a private buyer. There will be no background check, no government- waiting period, no government paperwork at all. In fact, the only paper that will change hands is the money we use to buy our .50 caliber rifle.

(Voice over): The transaction at a house in suburban Houston took about 20 minutes. We walked out with a case holding the gun critics say is the perfect terrorist weapon: a brand new .50 caliber rifle, with scope, by-pod and directions. We flew home. Guns are check as baggage. And when the bags arrive for hour flight, I simply picked it up and left.

Ronny Barrett, who manufactures .50-caliber rifles believes as an American, it is your right to own one.

GRIFFIN (on camera): Isn't that particular gun in the hands of a terrorist dangerous?

RONNIE BARRETT, BARRETT MANUFACTURING: We're not talking about terrorists. We're disarming here civilians. These laws have nothing to do with terrorism.

GRIFFIN (voice over): Barrett's company makes one of the most popular and top of the line .50-caliber rifles on the market. A semi- automatic favored by armies around the world. Barrett says his company couldn't survive on military orders alone and what keeps all these workers busy is its popularity among recreational shooters.

Barrett says it may be effective on the battlefield, but on the target range, it's just plain fun.

GRIFFIN (on camera): Should there be any regulations on your guns?

BARRETT: There should be regulations on criminals.

GRIFFIN (voice over): Gun control advocates want a federal ban on this weapon. Their reasoning: anything that can hit a target at a thousand yards with the bullet the size of a small artillery shell could certainly pose a major threat to aircraft.

(On camera): But the question at most of the nation's airports is not what you could do with a .50-caliber gun at 1,000 yards. Here at LAX, a would-be terrorist could get within less than 1,000 feet.

This week at a police gun range, I found out what this gun could do to the emergency exit door of a Boeing 727, fired from 1,000 feet away. The gun is very heavy, not easy to maneuver, but took only a few moments to set up. The first time I fired it, I missed. After adjusting for the sight, round after armor piercing round went straight through the door. But just about any gun could pierce the thin aluminum skin of an airplane. What scares law enforcement is what else this round can do when fired from this gun.

This is a one-inch thick piece of steel plate, more protects than almost any armored car. The .50 caliber goes right through the aircraft door and right through one inch steel.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Wow! Right through.

GRIFFIN: Right through it, baby. That's where it came out. That's where it went in, one-inch steel plate.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Unbelievable. That's just unbelievable.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KOPPEL: And they bought it all on the Internet. That was Drew Griffin reporting. Stay tuned to CNN day and night for the most reliable news about your security.

A blockbuster of a lawsuit. Coming up, why the video rental giant is being sued and we'll look at the family tree of crash test dummies and how they have helped save the lives of real people.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KOPPEL: In business headlines this week a telecom bidding war. Verizon announced it would buy MCI for $6.8 billion. Now Qwest is sweetening its offer to $8 billion. Stay tuned.

Fed Chairman Alan Greenspan told Congress this week to look for another round of interest rate increases. He gave a qualified endorsement for President Bush's Social Security overhaul, but urged a go slow approach.

On Wall Street, a ho-hum week. The Dow, Nasdaq and S&P 500 moved slightly lower for the week. Well, it sounded like a good idea, but one state says Blockbuster's new no-late fees policy amounts to a scam and is suing the big movie rental chain. Financial Correspondent Chris Huntington looks at the controversy.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CHRIS HUNTINGTON, CNN FINANCIAL CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Last month with much fanfare, Blockbuster rolled out its new no-late fee policy. The nation's number one video rental chain spent $50 million to put the new plan into practice. Now it may cost the company even more.

The attorney general of New Jersey says Blockbuster is deceiving customers, hooking them with a false promise, and not clearly disclosing other fees. For instance, any Blockbuster video or game rental eight days late is converted automatically into a sale, billed to the customer's credit card, typically a charge of around $15 to $25.

PETER HARVEY, NEW JERSEY ATTORNEY GENERAL: We believe that all of these practices by Blockbuster violate New Jersey's consumer fraud act. These practices are unconscionable.

HUNTINGTON: Blockbuster points out that all of its rental terms are disclosed in its stores, on pamphlets handed to customers and on its web site. A Blockbuster spokeswoman told CNN, "The fact is there are no longer late fees at Blockbuster. We're surprised that the New Jersey state attorney general never contacted us about this. We're disappointed in this action, because we believe it's a terrific program and we've received a lot of positive feedback from customers and employees.

One customer at a Blockbuster in Hoboken, New Jersey seemed to disagree.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think it is deceptive. How often do you pick up a pamphlet on late fees when you go in to rent something?

HUNTINGTON: Blockbuster used to earn $100s of millions on late fees, but analysts say the company dropped those fees because it was losing customers to competitors such as the mail order service Netflix, which never charged late fees. Blockbuster insists it only wanted to build goodwill.

STACEY WIDLITZ, FULCRUM GLOBAL PARTNERS: Yes, you create goodwill of ending late fees of $3 a day. On the other hand, you may annoy your consumer who sees their credit card bill and says what's happening? I've been charged the entire retail price.

HUNTINGTON (on camera): The lawsuit does seek damages and in fact, restitution and penalties up to $10,000 for each infraction that can be proven. Chris Huntington, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE) And there is more business news at the top of the hour. Jack Cafferty is your host for "In The Money" that is every Saturday at 1:00 pm Eastern.

You're watching CNN LIVE SATURDAY. Still ahead, the adventure of a lifetime and it is within your reach. See how and when. CNN LIVE SATURDAY continues.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

Mount Kilimanjaro is Africa's tallest peak, towering 19,000 feet over the savannahs of Kenya and Tanzania, it is known as the world's tallest free standing mountain and offers a snow cap tip right near the Earth's equator.

"TravelGirl" magazine will report on Africa in upcoming issues. One staffer made the trek to Kilimanjaro to write about the mountain. Stephanie Oswald is an editor at "TravelGirl" magazine. She is here in Atlanta to tell us about the trip.

What an incredible time it must have been.

STEPHAN OSWALD, EDITOR, "TRAVELGIRL" MAGAZINE: It was absolutely amazing. Africa is such a fabulous destination. It's one of the places we've seen all these trends. People really want to go out and do some strong adventure. Africa is a fabulous destination. I brought some pictures with me today, from the trip.

KOPPEL: Great, I know we want to talk about some of the animals that you saw on your safari. I guess you did this safari after?

OSWALD: We did. There's a zebra right there. We did the safari, which is the typical -- everyone thinks of Africa and going on safari. We were in the Serengeti and we saw some incredible pictures. The animals -- you're able to get so close to them. You will see some pictures coming up of the Jeep we were in, where...

KOPPEL: It looks like it was rushing you there.

OSWALD: It was. It was coming right at the Jeep. We never felt scared. It's one of those amazing destinations. I was so surprised. We saw so many animals. We were there during the migration, so we saw about a million wildebeests.

KOPPEL: Really? That is the best time of year to go, I'm told. There is your jeep. Tell us about actually climbing Kilimanjaro. How much training do you have to do ahead of time?

OSWALD: We did a lot of training. We did probably eight months of training.

I think I have climbed every trail in Georgia, but we hiked all the way from the bottom through all the different climates up to 19,340 feet up. It was really exciting.

Again, I have pictures from the trip. We took a route called the "Wrong Guy" route. There are six different routes you can take when you're going up Kilimanjaro. And the one we took was six days, five nights, camping, very rugged. And along the way, it starts out -- that's day one of our trip right there.

KOPPEL: How many of you were there in your group?

OSWALD: There were seven of us in the group. We had 26 porters.

KOPPEL: Because they had to carry all of your gear?

OSWALD: Exactly.

KOPPEL: Your food?

OSWALD: Exactly.

KOPPEL: Oh, 26 of them?

OSWALD: A lot of people said to me, oh, 26 porters, that sounds like luxury. Let me tell you, it's not luxury. It's very rugged. The reason we have 26 porters, is because they had to carry our food. They had to carry everything, the tents. They had a kitchen we would go in every day to eat.

This right here is a view -- these are all scenes of what we saw along the way. We drove five hours on a dusty road to get to the start of the hike. Then the hike was, again, five days up to the top of the mountain. You can see the clouds rolling in over the mountain.

KOPPEL: What was it like when you got to the top? Some people have been disappointed. They get up there and it's foggy and they didn't get to see anything. Did you have a view?

OSWALD: We had an incredible view, Andrea. It was absolutely stunning. All along the way we saw something new, different flowers and animals. We saw little salamanders one day, we saw little yellow flowers another day.

This is Muwemsi (ph) Peak, which is just an incredible scene that joined us every day of the trip. Muwemsi (ph) is another mountain. And actually, the night of the summit, there was a point our guide said to us you are now as high as that mountain. That was a thrill to know we had hiked as high as that mountain.

KOPPEL: Would you do it again?

OSWALD: Absolutely.

KOPPEL: Are you bitten by the mountain bug now?

OSWALD: I would absolutely do it again. As I said, Africa is such a thrill. I'm hoping we could show you the pictures from the top, because the sun rise at the top of the mountain, the summit, that's absolutely incredible. That's me. You can't tell, because I'm covered up with so many clothes, but it was a true thrill. And there are ways you can see Africa with luxury as well. We'll be covering those adventures as well in "Travel Girl" in the months ahead.

KOPPEL: Wonderful. Well, congratulations. Thumbs up. You must have been euphoric when you finally got up there after six days of roughing it.

OSWALD: It was incredible. The ice cap is just stunning.

KOPPEL: If people want to learn more about it, they can read "TravelGirl" magazine.

OSWALD: That's right. Our website is travelgirlinc.com. They can check that out.

KOPPEL: Terrific. We have to go, Stephanie. Thank you so much.

OSWALD: Thank you.

KOPPEL: Stephanie Oswald.

They go through car accidents and plane crashes. But come back for more. Crash test dummies and the creator who helped them come to life. We have that straight ahead on CNN LIVE SATURDAY.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KOPPEL: You may not know his name or his face, but Samuel Alderson is riding up front in contemporary culture. He is the one who invented the crash test dummy. Alderson died earlier this month at the age of 90. CNN's Paula Zahn remembers his legacy and also his devices that are credited with saving thousands of lives.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PAULA ZAHN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): They do some of the hardest work on earth, but somehow they're always in a good mood.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Really? I hadn't noticed.

ZAHN: When they get into a crash, no one even calls an ambulance for them. They're never charged with causing an accident or leaving the scene. And even after going through a dozen crashes in one day, they still have that ridiculous grin.

More than 50 years ago, Samuel Alderson began creating test dummies, first for the Air Force. Later for carmakers. Nowadays, dummies test everything from construction equipment to golf balls to plane crashes.

This test was a controlled crash landing done for NASA. You can see why it's hard to recruit live volunteers for this kind of work. After 50 years of evolution, this is the standard model. The Hybrid III, the 50th percentile male, 5'7" tall, 172 pounds. He is the product of decades of dummy research with vinyl skin, a rubber neck, steel ribs and a body cavity full of sensors.

He sometimes works naked, but he is not embarrassed. Those yellow birthmarks are used by scientists to measure exactly how badly he gets banged up in each crash. Over the years, it dawned on dummy makers that 170 pound men are not the only people who ride in cars. So, they developed entire dummy families to go out and crash together. Tall ones. Short ones. Skinny ones. Kids, toddlers and now even pregnant women.

The smartest dummies cost more than $100,000. Of course, there's also the expense of crashing hundreds of cars every year. But the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration estimates that since 1960, more than 300,000 lives have been saved by seat belts, air bags, and other safety features designed with test results from dummies. Then there's the glamour.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, baby!

ZAHN: Volvo made a short film about how Clive fell in love with Whiplash Mary. Vince and Larry became stars thanks to their ads with celebrities like the late Ray Charles.

And they even had a band named after them in the '90s, the Crash- Test Dummies. The band only had one or two hits. But full-time dummies can often have several hits in just one day. They strap in, crash, hit the air bag and come back for more.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KOPPEL: And that's why they're called dummies.

There is more ahead on CNN SATURDAY. In a few moments, "In The Money" with Jack Cafferty and then at 2:00 Eastern, on CNN Live Saturday, former senator, now law and order mainstay, J. Fred Thompson goes into the "Novak Zone". Then at 3:00 it's "Next @ CNN. I'll be back right back with a check of the headlines after a break.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com