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CNN Live Saturday

Tension in Lebanon and Syria Discussed; Freed and Wounded, Italian Journalist Back in Rome

Aired March 05, 2005 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


ANDREA KOPPEL, CNN ANCHOR, CNN SATURDAY: Hello, and welcome to CNN LIVE SATURDAY. I'm Andrea Koppel. All that and more after this check of the headlines.
It falls short of international demands. That's what a State Department official says about Syria's decision to pull back its troops from Lebanon. No timetable has been set for moving its 14,000 troops back to the Syrian border. A live report from Lebanon in about four minutes.

An Italian journalist held hostage by Iraqi militants is back in Rome. Giuliana Sgrena is undergoing treatment for shrapnel wounds inflicted by U.S. troops. The military says the vehicle carrying Sgrena refused to stop at a checkpoint. More on her homecoming coming up at the half hour.

Back in this country, security was tight in Evanston, north of Chicago today, for the funeral of the murdered husband of a Federal judge. Friends and family members paid their respects to Judge Joan Humphrey Lefkow and her children. Lefkow found the bodies of her husband and her mother in her home after returning home from work Monday night.

Investigators searching for one of the most wanted men in the world have a new tool to help in their search. They are photographs obtained exclusively by CNN of the man suspected of orchestrating numerous attacks inside Iraq.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

(voice-over): CNN has obtained new pictures of a man believed to be terrorist leader Abu Musab al Zarqawi, the most wanted terrorist in Iraq. Sources confirm to CNN that the man is in fact al Zarqawi, but it's unclear when the six photographs were taken. They show striking differences from the only other known photos of the terrorist leader. The new photos show a much older and bearded al-Zarqawi. He appears relaxed and looks as if he's sitting on the floor against the wall. In a few shots he's seen chatting with unknown people.

These are also pictures of al Zarqawi, taken at a wedding several years ago. When compared to these new photographs, they portray a striking difference in his appearance. Al Zarqawi is considered by the United States to be a top lieutenant in Osama bin Laden's al Qaeda network. In fact, U.S. intelligence officials say bin Laden recently solicited the help of al Zarqawi to stage attacks outside of Iraq. Al Zarqawi is believed to be living somewhere in Iraq. He's claimed responsibility for dozens of attacks and killings in the country, primary against U.S. forces and supporters of the U.S.-led war. The United States is offering a $25 million reward for his capture.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KOPPEL: And now to the tensions between Lebanon and Syria, the assassination of a former Lebanese prime minister last month prompted many to point the finger at Syria ever since the country's been under fire for its military presence and extraordinary influence in Lebanon. Today Lebanese troops moved into position around the Syrian intelligence headquarters in Beirut and Syria's president made an announcement about his forces in Lebanon. Our Brent Sadler joins us now from Beirut live with all the day's developments. It looks like there's a lot of activity behind you, Brent.

BRENT SADLER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, indeed Andrea. It's been live in martyrs' square in downtown Beirut the past five hours. This sounds to be and appears to be something of a street party celebrating president Basgar al Assad's announcement several hours ago that he intended to withdraw Syrian forces, he said from Lebanon, in a series of moves, the first to take Syrian troops to the Bekaa Valley, in line with an old peace agreement dating back to 1989 that ended Lebanon's civil war, and then to move troops to the Lebanese/Syrian borders.

Some opposition leaders here in Lebanon reacted positively to that news, others said it fell short of their demands and certainly well short of what U.S. President George Bush has been demanding, which is an immediate and complete withdrawal of Syrian troops and Syrian intelligence services ahead of scheduled parliamentary elections here by the middle of May. Now the streets certainly reacted negatively at first, but as news filtered through, that mood changed, and for the past several hours, we've heard nothing but upbeat songs, the national anthem being played and the situation has certainly been one of enthusiasm, but still people wanting the Syrian leader to clarify more about what he said in parliament just a few hours ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRANSLATOR: We will withdraw our forces that are placed in Lebanon completely to the Bekaa area and then to the border between Syria and Lebanon, and I have agreed with the president of Lebanon, Mr. (INAUDIBLE) that the supreme council of Libya and Syria should meet this week, within this week to approve the plan for withdrawal, and at the completion, we will have fulfilled our commitment towards (INAUDIBLE) accord and implemented (INAUDIBLE).

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SADLER: A top level meeting of Syrian and Lebanese officials could take place in Damascus as early as Monday of next week. Meanwhile, opposition leaders are saying they're cautiously optimistic, but they want to see actions, Syrian troops move rather than just words. Andrea.

KOPPEL: Brent Sadler, joining us from Beirut, thanks, Brent. There has been some confusion about just how far Syria is willing to go with its plan to redeploy trips. Joining us now on the phone is Syrian cabinet minister Bouthaina Shaaban. Dr. Shaaban, is the Syrian government ready and willing and able to withdraw all 14,000 of your troops that are in Lebanon right now and to bring them back into Syria?

BOUTHAINA SHAABAN, SYRIAN CABINET MINISTER: Absolutely, Andrea. That's precisely what President Assad said. He said that we will withdraw our troops (INAUDIBLE) and completely from Lebanon to the Bekaa Valley and then to Lebanese borders (INAUDIBLE), and I think it's going -- an arrangement to just agree on the logistics, and it's going to be as immediate as -- logistically, and (INAUDIBLE) full and complete.

KOPPEL: OK, but there is a big difference and certainly the United States and the international community have said that there is. Between pulling your troops to the border and getting them across the border back into Syria. Are you saying that President Assad is ready and he's going to be withdrawing all of the Syrian troops not just to the Bekaa Valley and along the border, but back into Syria?

SHAABAN: That's what the president said. He said Syrian border (INAUDIBLE). Honestly, Andrea, I couldn't understand why they would (INAUDIBLE) it doesn't (INAUDIBLE) I really feel that it's about time that the Bush administration thinks of Syria as a constructive partner in the region. (INAUDIBLE) I don't think the issue --

KOPPEL: Dr. Shaaban, I'm sorry to interrupt, but your cell phone keeps cutting out, and I just need to ask you one final question and that is, when is this going to happen? How quickly? Is this a matter of days, a matter of weeks? How quickly?

SHAABAN: You know, when you have thousands of soldiers, (INAUDIBLE) -- I believe -- I think withdrawing, this is immediate and now.

KOPPEL: OK, I think your phone was cutting out, but it sounded like you were saying it could be days, maybe weeks. Dr. Bouthiana Shaaban, joining us on the phone there from Damascus. Thank you.

The Bush administration is closely watching Syria's actions. President Bush focused on the country today in his weekly radio address. CNN's Elaine Quijano is at the White House with details. So it sounds, Elaine, from listening to Dr. Shaaban that Syria may be ready to do what the Bush administration and others are demanding, that they get out of there now.

ELAINE QUIJANO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Perhaps, although I think the Bush administration officials that are reacting today say what they heard was not in fact what we just heard a moment ago. In fact, their interpretation quite different from what we just heard. The Bush administration's reaction to all of this has not been coming out of the White House, but from State Department officials who actually watched the Syrian president's speech for themselves. They did not think much of it, at least that was their initial reaction. Of course that was before the development that just took place. But they said, based on what they saw, that it was not enough.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

QUIJANO (voice-over): President Bush left no doubt where Syria stands with his administration. In his weekly radio address, delivered before Syrian President Bashar al Assad's speech, Mr. Bush made clear he sees Syria as a destabilizing element in the region.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Syria has been an occupying force in Lebanon for nearly three decades and Syria's support for terrorism remains a key obstacle to peace in the broader Middle East.

QUIJANO: A senior State Department official says President Assad did not give the U.S. and the international community what they were looking for, compliance with U.N. Security Council resolution 1559 calling for a full withdrawal of Syrian forces from Lebanon.

FLYNT LEVERETT, BROOKINGS INSTITUTION: He certainly gave no indication that he was planning on withdrawing all Syrian forces from Lebanon. He talked about the redeployment. He talked about the withdrawals that have already taken place, but he didn't give a timetable for the redeployment, and he said nothing about further withdrawals, except that if there is a Lebanese consensus at some point that Syrian troops should leave, they would leave.

QUIJANO: Even before Syria's announcement, President Bush made known he and other world leaders, including French President Jacques Chirac, would reject anything less than a full and immediate pullout.

BUSH: There's no half measures involved. When the United States and France and others say withdraw, we mean complete withdrawal, no half-hearted measures.

QUIJANO: U.S. officials say President Assad's argument for a gradual withdrawal to ensure stability does not make sense. They point to the recent assassination of former Lebanese Prime Minister Rafik Hariri as evidence, they say, there's no order in Lebanon now.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

QUIJANO: Now, U.S. officials have also criticized President Assad's statement that he will consult with Lebanese leaders on the withdrawal. The U.S. saying that that rings hollow, because quote, he's not consulting with the Lebanese in the streets. He's consulting with the leadership he appointed. But Andrea, we're trying to get some clarification for you. Obviously the State Department early read on the Syrian president's comments are not necessarily jibing, if you will, with what we just heard. So we'll try and get some clarification and let you know what further reaction there may be from the U.S. Andrea.

KOPPEL: Obviously some mixed messages coming out of Damascus. Elaine Quijano at the White House, thanks.

Inside a member country of the axis of evil. It's not something westerners get to see very often, but you will. It's a CNN exclusive ahead.

Held hostage by insurgents, then wounded by U.S. forces, an Italian journalist returns home, but first more fallout following the drowning of a Marine recruit. We'll hear from a Marine officer who says his warnings were ignored.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KOPPEL: Here's some new developments in the wake of a Marine recruit's drowning last month in a training pool. Three Marine Corps drill instructors have been suspended. That is in addition to the five already suspended during the investigation. A sixth was assigned administrative duty. Our senior Pentagon correspondent Jamie McIntyre talks with a Marine officer who believes warnings he raised about unsafe training techniques were ignored.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JAMIE McINTYRE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Nineteen year old Jason Tharp drowned at Parris Island February 8th, a day after he was seen in a videotape taken by WIS TV being shoved by a swim instructor. The South Carolina station reported he apparently resisted going into the water. It was that incident that prompted Marine Captain Delbert Marriott to contact CNN.

CAPT. DELBERT MARRIOTT, U.S. MARINE CORPS: My motivation is that a recruit drowned. My motivation is that for three months, I was telling them this was going to be a problem. If we find a correlation or we don't find a correlation, it still doesn't change the fact that someone identified a problem.

McINTYRE: Last year Marriott's assignment was to review swim training at Camp Johnson, North Carolina where many of the Parris Island trainers are trained. The scathing conclusion of his November 30th report, I found the biggest issue to be the complete disregard for safety. In a follow up e-mail a week later, he warned superiors that drill sergeants were, quote doing their own thing and someone will die because of it. It's pretty strong stuff.

MARRIOTT: It is.

McINTYRE: Was anything done at that point?

MARRIOTT: No, they're still down there instructing right now.

McINTYRE: His accusations are totally false is how Marriott's commander reacted when contacted by CNN. Lt. Colonel Gary Lambertson told CNN he immediately stopped the practices questioned by Marriott pending further review. Marriott documented the difficulty of one of those practices in this videotape. Could instructors do something required of their instructors in training, swim the demanding crawl stroke for nearly two miles gradually shedding full combat gear. Marriott says the strong swimmers struggled and one gave up.

MARRIOTT: They have a hard time doing this stroke. Imagine about the lance corporal that feels he needs to do this stroke to pass the course. He may drown trying to do the crawl stroke for 3600 yards.

McINTYRE: The Marine Corps argues there's no connection between the arduous training for top instructors at Camp Johnson and the basic course for fresh recruits at Parris Island. Marriott disagrees.

MARRIOTT: We're the lead school. So if we've given an impression that this kind of training is OK, but when they go out to their commands, they're going to do the same type of training.

McINTYRE: In his original report, Marriott also warned about sharking, instructors yanking students underwater while they played underwater hockey.

MARRIOTT: Going to underwater hockey, the student was expected to go to the bottom of the pool holding their breath and push a 10-pound weight to the other side. This is in full combat gear. Instructors jumped on students backs, whether they were participating or not.

McINTYRE: It was an accident waiting to happen?

MARRIOTT: Absolutely it was. It was a death waiting to happen.

McINTYRE (on-camera): A Marine Corps spokesman declined to appear on camera, but vigorously disputed that the procedures now under review at Camp Johnson are unsafe, pointing out there's never been a drowning there or even a rescue. And he said the three separate investigations into the death of Jason Tharp will include a thorough review of procedures at Parris Island as well.

(voice-over): Marriott, an accomplished triathlete, wants out of the Marine Corps and admits he doesn't have a spotless record, but he insists he has no personal agenda.

MARRIOTT: My motivation is that no one's going to apologize to this family. I'll apologize. I'm sorry. I wish I could have done something.

McINTYRE: Jamie McIntyre, CNN, Camp Johnson, North Carolina.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KOPPEL: The prosecution prepares its case against the suspected BTK killer. That's ahead on CNN LIVE SATURDAY.

Also, it's the one case retired NYPD detective Jerry Giorgio refuses to forget, the murder of a little girl, her body never identified. It's been a cold case for more than a dozen years.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KOPPEL: Prosecutors in Wichita, Kansas, are busy preparing the case against the man accused of being the infamous BTK killer. Dennis Rader is facing 10 counts of first-degree murder. His arrest last Friday brought an end to the 30-year manhunt for the BTK killer. The nickname stands for the killing method: bind, torture, kill. The question now is whether Rader can get a fair trial in the city which was terrorized by the killings. Radar is to appear next in court on March 15th.

The arrest in the BTK case is providing hope to investigators in New York, who are trying to find the person responsible for another heinous killing. The victim was a little girl whose identity is still unknown after 14 years. CNN's Beth Nissen talked to a retired detective who refuses to put the case to rest.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BETH NISSEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Most seasoned homicide detectives carry one concealed, the memory of a case they couldn't crack, a case that haunts them.

FMR. DET. JERRY GIORGIO, NEW YORK POLICE: The cardinal rule, don't get involved, I got involved, I became emotionally involved in the case.

NISSEN: This one case has haunted NYPD detective Jerry Giorgio for almost 15 years. On a July morning in 1991, a plastic picnic cooler was found at the site of a Manhattan highway. Inside was the body of a malnourished four or five-year-old girl, naked, bound, suffocated.

GIORGIO: It was a horrible site. People say with time, memory fades. I could close my eyes and I could picture it today as vividly as I did that day. It's a horrible sight.

NISSEN: For weeks this veteran detective had trouble sleeping.

GIORGIO: You toss and turn. You're not only thinking about the child, you're thinking about I'm going to get the SOB that did this.

NISSEN: Police had few clues who did it, no ID on the little girl. Detectives in the 34th precinct gave her a name, "baby Hope." Forensic dentists and anthropologists helped give her a face or at least a vague sketch of one. Officers and detectives worked double shifts for weeks to find anyone who might have seen something.

GIORGIO: A case like this, nobody is looking at that clock. They'll go that extra mile.

NISSEN: Detectives had hundreds of calls, but no solid leads. No good clues from the physical evidence. The best tests at the time game them no good fingerprints, no DNA matches. Months passed, then a year, then two. Baby Hope's file was moved into the cold case drawer (ph).

GIORGIO: We weren't able to solve this case and find the people responsible.

NISSEN: Giorgio and his colleagues felt their own responsibility to baby Hope. Two years after they found her, they removed her unclaimed remains from the morgue and buried her as one of their own. At the funeral, detective and his wife Catherine took the position reserved for next of kin.

GIORGIO: I took her as my own. She was our baby, I keep saying our baby, our squad, our baby.

NISSEN: Detectives from the 34th paid for the headstone engraved with their shield, the only name they ever had for the girl, the only date they were sure of in her short life.

GIORGIO: The date that we found her, which was July 23rd, 1991.

NISSEN: But Giorgio did not, could not let the case go, even after retiring from the force. He now works as an investigator for the New York's DA's office but still has a desk at the 34th precinct.

GIORGIO: We worked on cases here that were 10, 15, 20 years gone by, passed and we've solved them.

NISSEN: They still have hope that more advanced DNA testing will give them their break. The fast-growing national database now contains thousands more samples, thousands more chances of a match, if a relative or possible killer of baby Hope is in the system. And the news from Wichita reminds them, reassures them that cold cases can be solved, even after 25, 30 years, maybe by the latest in forensic science, maybe by simple luck, maybe by age-old human compulsions to talk, to confess.

GIORGIO: We pray for that one break, either somebody being arrested or some inmate talking to another inmate and hearing about this or someone on their deathbed saying I'm sorry I did this. I'll be back.

NISSEN: Giorgio still visit baby Hope's grave every year.

GIORGIO: I sometimes think of what she would be doing now, you know. She would be a teenager, dating, and looking forward to her future, but most times I just think of her as a baby. She's with me every day.

NISSEN: The detective still has hope. Beth Nissen, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANDREA KOPPEL, CNN ANCHOR, CNN SATURDAY: In Italy, relief is mixing with grief today. One life was saved, but another lost in the aftermath of the kidnapping in Iraq. Now an Italian journalist is back home and investigators are trying to sort out what happened at a coalition checkpoint. CNN Rome bureau chief Alessio Vinci has the story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ALESSIO VINCI, CNN ROME BUREAU CHIEF (voice-over): Giuliana Sgrena has an extraordinary story to tell. Kidnapped in Iraq a month ago, her captors were said to have executed her just days later. Then a dramatic video in which she pleaded for her life and for Italy to withdraw troops from Iraq. Finally, her release at the hands of a man who paid the ultimate price for her freedom. Nicola Kolopari (ph) was one of Italy's top intelligence agents in Iraq. He died trying to shield her as U.S. forces opened fire on her car at a checkpoint. She suffered minor wounds to her left shoulder while two other officers in the car were also injured. Italian Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi summoned the U.S. ambassador to Rome, saying someone has to take responsibility for what happens. The U.S. has promised a full investigation.

MEL SEMBLER, U.S. AMBASSADOR TO ITALY: Nicola Kolopari is a friend and an ally to the United States and today his heroism must be evident to all of us.

VINCI: Accounts provided by U.S. forces in Baghdad indicate that the car in which Sgrena was traveling approached the checkpoint at high speed and ignored several warnings to stop.

PIER SCOLARI, PARTNER OF FORMER HOSTAGE (THROUGH TRANSLATOR): I have heard it was said that the Americans signaled many times to the car to stop, but Giuliana told me she didn't see anything. They were driving calmly. They had already passed many checkpoints, therefore everybody had been informed.

VINCI: What began as a successful operation to free a hostage quickly turned into a tragedy. Giuliana Sgrena's communist newspaper "Il Manifesto" was among the most vociferous critics of the U.S. invasion of Iraq. Their headline today, the agent was assassinated. In the streets of Rome, as people picked up the morning newspapers, anger and bewilderment.

TRANSLATOR: We were all so happy, says Marco Baronchelli (ph), a photographer, but after what happened, what can I say? We're all left speechless.

VINCI (on-camera): The incident will clearly test the strong relations between the U.S. and Italy and while the Americans have promised a full investigation, the Italian Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi is likely to come under renewed pressure to rethink his commitment in Iraq where Italy has more than 3,000 troops. Alessio Vinci, CNN, Rome.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KOPPEL: Checking other news around the world, Pakistani soldiers captured 11 al Qaeda suspects and killed two others in a raid near the Afghan border. A captain in the Pakistan army and a woman were injured in the action.

Intrigue in Ukraine, former president Leonid Kuchma is back in Kiev and denying allegations he had anything to do with a journalist's murder. His former interior minister who was about to be questioned by police, committed suicide and left a note attacking Kuchma. Ukraine authorities say they have made arrests in the death of the opposition reporter. All of the suspects were employees of Ukraine's interior ministry.

More hitches to the royal wedding plans of Prince Charles and Camilla Parker Bowles. At least nine formal objections to their April 8th civil ceremony have been filed. No details on the specifics, but a ruling is expected in coming days.

Now we bring you a look at North Korea few have ever seen. On a recent journey to China, CNN's Barbara Starr found herself surprisingly up close and personal with the secretive nation as she shows us now in her reporter's notebook.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In the early morning flight from Beijing, north to the city of Shen Yang (ph), CNN travels with a Pentagon team that has come to thank China for helping find the remains of Captain Troy Coke (ph), shot down 52 years ago during the Korean War. The search for Captain Coke's remains took place along the Yaloo (ph), the border between China and North Korea. He was shot down just inside China, but this journey will take an unexpected turn as the day unfolds. We travel one of China's most modern highways.

(on-camera): We are now on a three-hour drive through rural China to the city of Dandong, right on the North Korean Chinese border.

(voice-over): Dandong, a bustling, colorful Chinese port city of one million. We know North Korea is just across the river, but as we entered the city, it is so unexpected. There it is, the hermit kingdom, North Korea in full view. Our voices become hushed. We struggle to make out every detail. The shoreline of buildings and ships looks largely deserted. A lone patrol boat goes by. We board a Chinese boat, sailing past China's border control point at the bridge that joins both countries. The river is neutral territory. But we are stunned when the boat sails within yards of the North Korean shoreline.

The Chinese hosts know we are taking these sensitive pictures of a secretive North Korea. This is the North Korean town of Sineju (ph). As the warehouses, buildings and shore lines go by, we see a country in economic collapse. Smokestacks with no activity. We pass a bridge, destroyed and never repaired, a Ferris wheel that does not move. There is no electricity. At night, all of this is dark.

CNN turns off the video camera when the Chinese ask, but we are allowed to take photos. We said next to North Korean fishing boats, dozens rusting, tied up. There is no money for fuel. A close look at a North Korea few Americans have ever seen and remembering an American who fell here in a war long ago. Barbara Starr, CNN, on the Yaloo River between North Korea and China.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KOPPEL: So here's a question for you. Are you pink or are you blue? Not sure what we're talking about and it's not your mood. One expert says it has to do with your approach to doing business. Coming up, find out what you are and how you can improve your chances at enhancing your career. Plus the battle of the sexes in the examining room. The sometimes deadly differences between men and women when it comes to diagnosing heart disease.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KOPPEL: Randi Kaye is here with a preview of what's coming up later. Randi, what's on tap for 6:00 and 10:00?

RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Andrea, coming up today at 6:00, we're going to take you to California. We're going to introduce you to a mom and her four-year old daughter. This is a wonderful story. This four-year-old girl called 911. Her mother was having a seizure and she saved her mother's life. Her appendix was about to burst. We'll tell you how she guided 911 operators to her home. It's a really great story.

Coming up tonight at 10:00, we're going to introduce you to a man who hunted Osama bin Laden. He is the al Qaeda hunter. He was with the FBI for 30 years and his only regret is never catching Osama bin Laden. He also has some interesting things to say about bin Laden's background. Some of it may be true, may not be true. You'll hear his opinions tonight at 10:00.

KOPPEL: Part of a long list of people who want to catch that guy. OK Randi, thanks very much.

Now to an age-old debate. It's the battle of the sexes. Harvard President Lawrence Summers has been under fire recently since insinuating that women don't get the top math and science jobs because of what he called intrinsic aptitude, differences between men and women. While he has apologized for those provocative remarks, there is no end in sight to the debate over the hard wiring of men and women. Ronna Lichtenberg is author of "Pitch Like a Girl, How a Woman Can Be Herself and Still Succeed." She says gender differences don't have to hold either side back and Ronna Lichtenberg is joining me now from New York. So, Ronna, I understand you've come up with this very interesting kind of shorthand way for us to identify who we are, whether we have pink attributes or blue attributes. You also believe that you don't have to be one or the other, you can be a little of both.

RONNA LICHTENBERG, AUTHOR, "PITCH LIKE A GIRL": We are a little of both. I mean there are some people who are pink with blue stripes and some people who are blue with pink stripes. All it means is, say you either prefer to make a connection with people first before you get to task when you're doing business or you want to get right down to task and you don't care so much about connecting to other people. But either way is OK. Look, Larry Summers is very blue and he's doing OK with the little blip that he's had over the last few weeks.

KOPPEL: Well, what are the characteristics of a blue person versus a pink person?

LICHTENBERG: Blue person has what's called high systematizing abilities. They're linear. They hate emotion. They want other people to get to the point. Blue e-mail is just tell me what I need to do to get the job done. Rank and orders matters to a blue person, not naturally people person. They may be seen as cold and distant. Martha Stewart, for example, is often considered blue.

KOPPEL: And that's interesting, even though she is involved in very girly things?

LICHTENBERG: Right, but think about it. Even when she was in trouble at first, her focus was on getting her salad done.

KOPPEL: That's true. You've actually put together a quiz in your book that people can take the entire quiz if they want to at pitchlikeagirl.com. But one of the questions is when first meeting somebody, I like to know their credentials, where they work, their title, et cetera and depending upon if you answer yes, you're blue and if you answer no, you're a pink. Explain.

LICHTENBERG: Right. Somebody who's blue likes to know order, rank and hierarchy. So, a blue person will introduce herself by saying, I'm so and so. I'm vice president of such and such. My company has assets of X gazillion dollars. That's a blue introduction.

A pink person will tell you something about herself. The point is you want to adapt to the style of the other person. If you introduce yourself to a blue person by talking about your cats, they're not going to take you seriously. If you introduce yourself to a pink person by talking about your kids, they're going to know that you want to connect.

KOPPEL: So for any of our viewers who are watching, if they want to improve their opportunities on the job, what do you recommend?

LICHTENBERG: The first thing you need to know is your own style and to understand that any style can work. There's been this brainwashing for almost three decades that all women have to act like men, which means everyone has to be blue. That's ridiculous. You can do fine whatever your style is, but you want to learn your style and their style and when you're asking for something, which you should be doing a lot, pay attention to their style when you think about how you want to ask for it.

KOPPEL: If you're giving a presentation and you're speaking to both men and women, how do you know which part of your personality, which part of your pink or blue side you want to bring into that presentation?

LICHTENBERG: If it's in a big room, you just go blue. In any big corporate setting, when you have a room full of people, then you're probably going to be blue, but after the meeting, when there's someone that you want to talk to, it might be a pink person. I'm thinking about a pink person. That person may talk to you about the weather, may talk about what is going on in Atlanta today, will want to be looking to you for facial reactions indicating that she wants empathy, will want to talk about who we know in common. So it's after the meeting when you're connecting with that person you can go for a pink style.

KOPPEL: In your book you talk about brain sex differences. What do you mean by that?

LICHTENBERG: I think Larry Summers was half right and half wrong. If you look at the research on average, men and women are not wired exactly the same way. The way I think he was wrong is that his argument was that means that women can't succeed to the same degree which is just hogwash. The fact that we tend to be a little better at things like multi-tasking, that we tend to get more nonverbal cues, that we tend to have better connections between both sides of our brains so we can process emotion and logic at the same time. That's not a reason why we shouldn't do well at work.

KOPPEL: All right. I hear you. Believe me, I share your feelings. Ronna Lichtenberg, the author of "Pitch Like a Girl," joining us from New York, thanks so much.

LICHTENBERG: Thank you.

KOPPEL: More on the differences between the sexes in our "living well" segment today. Gender and heart disease, it seems that women have a lower survival rate. Why is that? Well, Dr. Bill Lloyd is a professor at the University of California Davis Medical Center and he's with us now from San Antonio, Texas. So Dr. Lloyd, why is that? Why do women have a higher rate of heart disease and deaths from that?

DR. BILL LLOYD, SURGEON: Well, Andrea, women don't survive heart attacks as well as men for many reasons and it all has to do with time -- the time it takes for them to get from their house to the hospital, 20 minutes longer, the time it takes for them to get to the emergency have to the cath lab, add another 15 minutes and the time it takes to perform angioplasty. So why all this time? Well, the time tracks back to symptoms. Women are raised to believe heart attack symptoms are just like men, so that when they have symptoms that suggest a heart attack, they're not familiar with it.

KOPPEL: And what are those symptoms?

LLOYD: Well with men, we've always been taught, crushing chest pain. I can't get up. Help me. But for women, it's more likely indigestion or the feeling of severe fatigue, like somebody just pulled the plug out. I'm awfully tired. You want to think about the possibility that it's a heart attack.

KOPPEL: But you know, I'm just trying to think how I would feel in that situation and suppose - you don't want to be over reacting if you've jut had a meal perhaps that might have disagreed with you. So how do you make the distinction between what might very well be indigestion and what might be a heart attack?

LLOYD: This isn't just a dizzy spell. If you're having a heart attack, you'll feel like you've never felt before. The first thing you do is call 911. If you want to take an aspirin after that, feel free, but you call 911 and if it's a false alarm, your doctors will educate you about your symptoms so it doesn't happen again. Don't be a doctor. Pick up the phone. Call 911 and get the care you need. There's no such thing as gender bias in medicine and women should get the same health care as men and should expect the same survivorship rates as men. Unfortunately, they don't Andrea.

Did you know women are more likely to have a second heart attack and they're less likely to survive one year after that first heart attack.

KOPPEL: So what do you recommend? I'm sure a lot of this is preventative and I'm just guessing you're going to tell women that they need to get regular check ups and need to get their blood cholesterol tested.

LLOYD: Those are important factors. Women who get heart attacks tend to get them later in life. They often have combined medical problems, like high blood pressure and diabetes. So as women get older and they receive continuous medical care, they and their doctors need to be aware of these symptoms of heart attacks, that they're not like ordinary heart attacks. They need to continue exercise. One study out of Florida says continuous exercise in older women, women over 70 is the best predictor, not cholesterol levels, as to whether or not they're going to get a heart attack.

Again, being familiar, don't wait for that feeling of tightness or pressure on your check. Instead, unusual feelings like a pain in the middle of the back, excessive sweating or again nausea, vomiting, think about could this be a heart attack? And when you get to the emergency room, ask them the exact same question because many people who are healthcare providers in the emergency room setting, also don't know the facts that women experience heart attacks very differently than men.

KOPPEL: Important advice and hopefully people will take that to heart, no pun intended, should they ever have any of those symptoms. Dr. Lloyd, thank you so much joining us from Texas.

LLOYD: We'll talk again soon.

KOPPEL: The judge in the Michael Jackson case is ordering Jay Leno to keep quiet. Up next, how the late night TV host is getting around the gag order.

And then online dating like you've never seen it before, redneck style. The love connection when CNN LIVE SATURDAY continues.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KOPPEL: In case you thought the Michael Jackson case couldn't get any more bizarre, a stand in is delivers comedian Jay Leno's Jackson jokes on the tonight show. The NBC late night host is on the defense's witness list in the pop star's child molestation trial. That puts Leno under a gag order. So TV star Brad Garrett is firing off the jokes Leno can write but can't say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right. So let's see what's new in the Michael Jackson trial or as we like to call it, diary of a mad white woman. As we all know, Michael Jackson has been accuse of supplying wine to underage boys, what's Michael Jackson's favorite wine? C'mon, your mom won't know. Whew, whew.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KOPPEL: Jay Leno is appealing that gag order.

It seems there is no place -- there is a place for anyone looking for love on the Internet, even self-proclaimed rednecks. Sara Dorsey's web surfing has turned up redneckandsingle.com.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SARA DORSEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Need a date for the motor speedway? A new website is making love connections among self- described rednecks. How do you know if it's right for you?

UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: Wear flannel shirts and you drive an F150.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You have five cars parked in your driveway, and only one of them has a license plate.

DORSEY: And do you relate to Gretchen Wilson's song "Redneck Woman"? Becky Grimmer proudly does and she's searching for some country love online at redneckandsingle.com.

BECKY GRIMMER, REDNECK WEB SITE USER: I never thought I would ever go on to a dating service or try to meet anyone that way, but when I heard about it, when I actually went to the website, I thought they actually came out with one with me.

DORSEY: Grimmer is having some fun with it.

GRIMMER: My ideal redneck is an honest one with teeth. Teeth is the plural of tooth, that means a lot of them.

DORSEY: The site's inventor Kevin McIntosh, admits it's not for everyone.

KEVIN MCINTOSH, REDNECK WEB SITE FOUNDER: Look, if you're into backgammon and white zinfandel, redneckandsingle.com is not the place you want to be. Let me tell you that.

DORSEY: But after a month, there's more than 1,000 self- proclaimed rednecks to choose from. Red necks like Carl Lamson, just looking for love in someone with common interests.

CARL LAMSON, REDNECK WEB SITE USER: Their favorite sports are NASCAR, football and hockey/hockey fights. I like that part.

DORSEY: Is she someone you'd want to meet?

LAMSON: Yeah, it's somebody I'd sit down and have a beer with.

DORSEY: That's all Becky Grimmer wants, too, a guy who can keep up with her on the table and bleeds Ford blue, just like her.

GRIMMER: Does he have to have a little redneck in him to hang out with me? Probably, probably not to hang out with me, probably to put up with me.

DORSEY: Sara Dorsey, CNN, Clearwater, Florida.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KOPPEL: Forget the teeth, he's got to have a lot of teeth. That is all for this hour of CNN LIVE SATURDAY. Straight ahead, an encore presentation of PEOPLE IN THE NEWS with a look at the makeover of Martha Stewart and I'll be back in just a few minutes with the hour's headlines.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com


Aired March 5, 2005 - 16:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANDREA KOPPEL, CNN ANCHOR, CNN SATURDAY: Hello, and welcome to CNN LIVE SATURDAY. I'm Andrea Koppel. All that and more after this check of the headlines.
It falls short of international demands. That's what a State Department official says about Syria's decision to pull back its troops from Lebanon. No timetable has been set for moving its 14,000 troops back to the Syrian border. A live report from Lebanon in about four minutes.

An Italian journalist held hostage by Iraqi militants is back in Rome. Giuliana Sgrena is undergoing treatment for shrapnel wounds inflicted by U.S. troops. The military says the vehicle carrying Sgrena refused to stop at a checkpoint. More on her homecoming coming up at the half hour.

Back in this country, security was tight in Evanston, north of Chicago today, for the funeral of the murdered husband of a Federal judge. Friends and family members paid their respects to Judge Joan Humphrey Lefkow and her children. Lefkow found the bodies of her husband and her mother in her home after returning home from work Monday night.

Investigators searching for one of the most wanted men in the world have a new tool to help in their search. They are photographs obtained exclusively by CNN of the man suspected of orchestrating numerous attacks inside Iraq.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

(voice-over): CNN has obtained new pictures of a man believed to be terrorist leader Abu Musab al Zarqawi, the most wanted terrorist in Iraq. Sources confirm to CNN that the man is in fact al Zarqawi, but it's unclear when the six photographs were taken. They show striking differences from the only other known photos of the terrorist leader. The new photos show a much older and bearded al-Zarqawi. He appears relaxed and looks as if he's sitting on the floor against the wall. In a few shots he's seen chatting with unknown people.

These are also pictures of al Zarqawi, taken at a wedding several years ago. When compared to these new photographs, they portray a striking difference in his appearance. Al Zarqawi is considered by the United States to be a top lieutenant in Osama bin Laden's al Qaeda network. In fact, U.S. intelligence officials say bin Laden recently solicited the help of al Zarqawi to stage attacks outside of Iraq. Al Zarqawi is believed to be living somewhere in Iraq. He's claimed responsibility for dozens of attacks and killings in the country, primary against U.S. forces and supporters of the U.S.-led war. The United States is offering a $25 million reward for his capture.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KOPPEL: And now to the tensions between Lebanon and Syria, the assassination of a former Lebanese prime minister last month prompted many to point the finger at Syria ever since the country's been under fire for its military presence and extraordinary influence in Lebanon. Today Lebanese troops moved into position around the Syrian intelligence headquarters in Beirut and Syria's president made an announcement about his forces in Lebanon. Our Brent Sadler joins us now from Beirut live with all the day's developments. It looks like there's a lot of activity behind you, Brent.

BRENT SADLER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, indeed Andrea. It's been live in martyrs' square in downtown Beirut the past five hours. This sounds to be and appears to be something of a street party celebrating president Basgar al Assad's announcement several hours ago that he intended to withdraw Syrian forces, he said from Lebanon, in a series of moves, the first to take Syrian troops to the Bekaa Valley, in line with an old peace agreement dating back to 1989 that ended Lebanon's civil war, and then to move troops to the Lebanese/Syrian borders.

Some opposition leaders here in Lebanon reacted positively to that news, others said it fell short of their demands and certainly well short of what U.S. President George Bush has been demanding, which is an immediate and complete withdrawal of Syrian troops and Syrian intelligence services ahead of scheduled parliamentary elections here by the middle of May. Now the streets certainly reacted negatively at first, but as news filtered through, that mood changed, and for the past several hours, we've heard nothing but upbeat songs, the national anthem being played and the situation has certainly been one of enthusiasm, but still people wanting the Syrian leader to clarify more about what he said in parliament just a few hours ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRANSLATOR: We will withdraw our forces that are placed in Lebanon completely to the Bekaa area and then to the border between Syria and Lebanon, and I have agreed with the president of Lebanon, Mr. (INAUDIBLE) that the supreme council of Libya and Syria should meet this week, within this week to approve the plan for withdrawal, and at the completion, we will have fulfilled our commitment towards (INAUDIBLE) accord and implemented (INAUDIBLE).

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SADLER: A top level meeting of Syrian and Lebanese officials could take place in Damascus as early as Monday of next week. Meanwhile, opposition leaders are saying they're cautiously optimistic, but they want to see actions, Syrian troops move rather than just words. Andrea.

KOPPEL: Brent Sadler, joining us from Beirut, thanks, Brent. There has been some confusion about just how far Syria is willing to go with its plan to redeploy trips. Joining us now on the phone is Syrian cabinet minister Bouthaina Shaaban. Dr. Shaaban, is the Syrian government ready and willing and able to withdraw all 14,000 of your troops that are in Lebanon right now and to bring them back into Syria?

BOUTHAINA SHAABAN, SYRIAN CABINET MINISTER: Absolutely, Andrea. That's precisely what President Assad said. He said that we will withdraw our troops (INAUDIBLE) and completely from Lebanon to the Bekaa Valley and then to Lebanese borders (INAUDIBLE), and I think it's going -- an arrangement to just agree on the logistics, and it's going to be as immediate as -- logistically, and (INAUDIBLE) full and complete.

KOPPEL: OK, but there is a big difference and certainly the United States and the international community have said that there is. Between pulling your troops to the border and getting them across the border back into Syria. Are you saying that President Assad is ready and he's going to be withdrawing all of the Syrian troops not just to the Bekaa Valley and along the border, but back into Syria?

SHAABAN: That's what the president said. He said Syrian border (INAUDIBLE). Honestly, Andrea, I couldn't understand why they would (INAUDIBLE) it doesn't (INAUDIBLE) I really feel that it's about time that the Bush administration thinks of Syria as a constructive partner in the region. (INAUDIBLE) I don't think the issue --

KOPPEL: Dr. Shaaban, I'm sorry to interrupt, but your cell phone keeps cutting out, and I just need to ask you one final question and that is, when is this going to happen? How quickly? Is this a matter of days, a matter of weeks? How quickly?

SHAABAN: You know, when you have thousands of soldiers, (INAUDIBLE) -- I believe -- I think withdrawing, this is immediate and now.

KOPPEL: OK, I think your phone was cutting out, but it sounded like you were saying it could be days, maybe weeks. Dr. Bouthiana Shaaban, joining us on the phone there from Damascus. Thank you.

The Bush administration is closely watching Syria's actions. President Bush focused on the country today in his weekly radio address. CNN's Elaine Quijano is at the White House with details. So it sounds, Elaine, from listening to Dr. Shaaban that Syria may be ready to do what the Bush administration and others are demanding, that they get out of there now.

ELAINE QUIJANO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Perhaps, although I think the Bush administration officials that are reacting today say what they heard was not in fact what we just heard a moment ago. In fact, their interpretation quite different from what we just heard. The Bush administration's reaction to all of this has not been coming out of the White House, but from State Department officials who actually watched the Syrian president's speech for themselves. They did not think much of it, at least that was their initial reaction. Of course that was before the development that just took place. But they said, based on what they saw, that it was not enough.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

QUIJANO (voice-over): President Bush left no doubt where Syria stands with his administration. In his weekly radio address, delivered before Syrian President Bashar al Assad's speech, Mr. Bush made clear he sees Syria as a destabilizing element in the region.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Syria has been an occupying force in Lebanon for nearly three decades and Syria's support for terrorism remains a key obstacle to peace in the broader Middle East.

QUIJANO: A senior State Department official says President Assad did not give the U.S. and the international community what they were looking for, compliance with U.N. Security Council resolution 1559 calling for a full withdrawal of Syrian forces from Lebanon.

FLYNT LEVERETT, BROOKINGS INSTITUTION: He certainly gave no indication that he was planning on withdrawing all Syrian forces from Lebanon. He talked about the redeployment. He talked about the withdrawals that have already taken place, but he didn't give a timetable for the redeployment, and he said nothing about further withdrawals, except that if there is a Lebanese consensus at some point that Syrian troops should leave, they would leave.

QUIJANO: Even before Syria's announcement, President Bush made known he and other world leaders, including French President Jacques Chirac, would reject anything less than a full and immediate pullout.

BUSH: There's no half measures involved. When the United States and France and others say withdraw, we mean complete withdrawal, no half-hearted measures.

QUIJANO: U.S. officials say President Assad's argument for a gradual withdrawal to ensure stability does not make sense. They point to the recent assassination of former Lebanese Prime Minister Rafik Hariri as evidence, they say, there's no order in Lebanon now.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

QUIJANO: Now, U.S. officials have also criticized President Assad's statement that he will consult with Lebanese leaders on the withdrawal. The U.S. saying that that rings hollow, because quote, he's not consulting with the Lebanese in the streets. He's consulting with the leadership he appointed. But Andrea, we're trying to get some clarification for you. Obviously the State Department early read on the Syrian president's comments are not necessarily jibing, if you will, with what we just heard. So we'll try and get some clarification and let you know what further reaction there may be from the U.S. Andrea.

KOPPEL: Obviously some mixed messages coming out of Damascus. Elaine Quijano at the White House, thanks.

Inside a member country of the axis of evil. It's not something westerners get to see very often, but you will. It's a CNN exclusive ahead.

Held hostage by insurgents, then wounded by U.S. forces, an Italian journalist returns home, but first more fallout following the drowning of a Marine recruit. We'll hear from a Marine officer who says his warnings were ignored.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KOPPEL: Here's some new developments in the wake of a Marine recruit's drowning last month in a training pool. Three Marine Corps drill instructors have been suspended. That is in addition to the five already suspended during the investigation. A sixth was assigned administrative duty. Our senior Pentagon correspondent Jamie McIntyre talks with a Marine officer who believes warnings he raised about unsafe training techniques were ignored.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JAMIE McINTYRE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Nineteen year old Jason Tharp drowned at Parris Island February 8th, a day after he was seen in a videotape taken by WIS TV being shoved by a swim instructor. The South Carolina station reported he apparently resisted going into the water. It was that incident that prompted Marine Captain Delbert Marriott to contact CNN.

CAPT. DELBERT MARRIOTT, U.S. MARINE CORPS: My motivation is that a recruit drowned. My motivation is that for three months, I was telling them this was going to be a problem. If we find a correlation or we don't find a correlation, it still doesn't change the fact that someone identified a problem.

McINTYRE: Last year Marriott's assignment was to review swim training at Camp Johnson, North Carolina where many of the Parris Island trainers are trained. The scathing conclusion of his November 30th report, I found the biggest issue to be the complete disregard for safety. In a follow up e-mail a week later, he warned superiors that drill sergeants were, quote doing their own thing and someone will die because of it. It's pretty strong stuff.

MARRIOTT: It is.

McINTYRE: Was anything done at that point?

MARRIOTT: No, they're still down there instructing right now.

McINTYRE: His accusations are totally false is how Marriott's commander reacted when contacted by CNN. Lt. Colonel Gary Lambertson told CNN he immediately stopped the practices questioned by Marriott pending further review. Marriott documented the difficulty of one of those practices in this videotape. Could instructors do something required of their instructors in training, swim the demanding crawl stroke for nearly two miles gradually shedding full combat gear. Marriott says the strong swimmers struggled and one gave up.

MARRIOTT: They have a hard time doing this stroke. Imagine about the lance corporal that feels he needs to do this stroke to pass the course. He may drown trying to do the crawl stroke for 3600 yards.

McINTYRE: The Marine Corps argues there's no connection between the arduous training for top instructors at Camp Johnson and the basic course for fresh recruits at Parris Island. Marriott disagrees.

MARRIOTT: We're the lead school. So if we've given an impression that this kind of training is OK, but when they go out to their commands, they're going to do the same type of training.

McINTYRE: In his original report, Marriott also warned about sharking, instructors yanking students underwater while they played underwater hockey.

MARRIOTT: Going to underwater hockey, the student was expected to go to the bottom of the pool holding their breath and push a 10-pound weight to the other side. This is in full combat gear. Instructors jumped on students backs, whether they were participating or not.

McINTYRE: It was an accident waiting to happen?

MARRIOTT: Absolutely it was. It was a death waiting to happen.

McINTYRE (on-camera): A Marine Corps spokesman declined to appear on camera, but vigorously disputed that the procedures now under review at Camp Johnson are unsafe, pointing out there's never been a drowning there or even a rescue. And he said the three separate investigations into the death of Jason Tharp will include a thorough review of procedures at Parris Island as well.

(voice-over): Marriott, an accomplished triathlete, wants out of the Marine Corps and admits he doesn't have a spotless record, but he insists he has no personal agenda.

MARRIOTT: My motivation is that no one's going to apologize to this family. I'll apologize. I'm sorry. I wish I could have done something.

McINTYRE: Jamie McIntyre, CNN, Camp Johnson, North Carolina.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KOPPEL: The prosecution prepares its case against the suspected BTK killer. That's ahead on CNN LIVE SATURDAY.

Also, it's the one case retired NYPD detective Jerry Giorgio refuses to forget, the murder of a little girl, her body never identified. It's been a cold case for more than a dozen years.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KOPPEL: Prosecutors in Wichita, Kansas, are busy preparing the case against the man accused of being the infamous BTK killer. Dennis Rader is facing 10 counts of first-degree murder. His arrest last Friday brought an end to the 30-year manhunt for the BTK killer. The nickname stands for the killing method: bind, torture, kill. The question now is whether Rader can get a fair trial in the city which was terrorized by the killings. Radar is to appear next in court on March 15th.

The arrest in the BTK case is providing hope to investigators in New York, who are trying to find the person responsible for another heinous killing. The victim was a little girl whose identity is still unknown after 14 years. CNN's Beth Nissen talked to a retired detective who refuses to put the case to rest.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BETH NISSEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Most seasoned homicide detectives carry one concealed, the memory of a case they couldn't crack, a case that haunts them.

FMR. DET. JERRY GIORGIO, NEW YORK POLICE: The cardinal rule, don't get involved, I got involved, I became emotionally involved in the case.

NISSEN: This one case has haunted NYPD detective Jerry Giorgio for almost 15 years. On a July morning in 1991, a plastic picnic cooler was found at the site of a Manhattan highway. Inside was the body of a malnourished four or five-year-old girl, naked, bound, suffocated.

GIORGIO: It was a horrible site. People say with time, memory fades. I could close my eyes and I could picture it today as vividly as I did that day. It's a horrible sight.

NISSEN: For weeks this veteran detective had trouble sleeping.

GIORGIO: You toss and turn. You're not only thinking about the child, you're thinking about I'm going to get the SOB that did this.

NISSEN: Police had few clues who did it, no ID on the little girl. Detectives in the 34th precinct gave her a name, "baby Hope." Forensic dentists and anthropologists helped give her a face or at least a vague sketch of one. Officers and detectives worked double shifts for weeks to find anyone who might have seen something.

GIORGIO: A case like this, nobody is looking at that clock. They'll go that extra mile.

NISSEN: Detectives had hundreds of calls, but no solid leads. No good clues from the physical evidence. The best tests at the time game them no good fingerprints, no DNA matches. Months passed, then a year, then two. Baby Hope's file was moved into the cold case drawer (ph).

GIORGIO: We weren't able to solve this case and find the people responsible.

NISSEN: Giorgio and his colleagues felt their own responsibility to baby Hope. Two years after they found her, they removed her unclaimed remains from the morgue and buried her as one of their own. At the funeral, detective and his wife Catherine took the position reserved for next of kin.

GIORGIO: I took her as my own. She was our baby, I keep saying our baby, our squad, our baby.

NISSEN: Detectives from the 34th paid for the headstone engraved with their shield, the only name they ever had for the girl, the only date they were sure of in her short life.

GIORGIO: The date that we found her, which was July 23rd, 1991.

NISSEN: But Giorgio did not, could not let the case go, even after retiring from the force. He now works as an investigator for the New York's DA's office but still has a desk at the 34th precinct.

GIORGIO: We worked on cases here that were 10, 15, 20 years gone by, passed and we've solved them.

NISSEN: They still have hope that more advanced DNA testing will give them their break. The fast-growing national database now contains thousands more samples, thousands more chances of a match, if a relative or possible killer of baby Hope is in the system. And the news from Wichita reminds them, reassures them that cold cases can be solved, even after 25, 30 years, maybe by the latest in forensic science, maybe by simple luck, maybe by age-old human compulsions to talk, to confess.

GIORGIO: We pray for that one break, either somebody being arrested or some inmate talking to another inmate and hearing about this or someone on their deathbed saying I'm sorry I did this. I'll be back.

NISSEN: Giorgio still visit baby Hope's grave every year.

GIORGIO: I sometimes think of what she would be doing now, you know. She would be a teenager, dating, and looking forward to her future, but most times I just think of her as a baby. She's with me every day.

NISSEN: The detective still has hope. Beth Nissen, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANDREA KOPPEL, CNN ANCHOR, CNN SATURDAY: In Italy, relief is mixing with grief today. One life was saved, but another lost in the aftermath of the kidnapping in Iraq. Now an Italian journalist is back home and investigators are trying to sort out what happened at a coalition checkpoint. CNN Rome bureau chief Alessio Vinci has the story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ALESSIO VINCI, CNN ROME BUREAU CHIEF (voice-over): Giuliana Sgrena has an extraordinary story to tell. Kidnapped in Iraq a month ago, her captors were said to have executed her just days later. Then a dramatic video in which she pleaded for her life and for Italy to withdraw troops from Iraq. Finally, her release at the hands of a man who paid the ultimate price for her freedom. Nicola Kolopari (ph) was one of Italy's top intelligence agents in Iraq. He died trying to shield her as U.S. forces opened fire on her car at a checkpoint. She suffered minor wounds to her left shoulder while two other officers in the car were also injured. Italian Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi summoned the U.S. ambassador to Rome, saying someone has to take responsibility for what happens. The U.S. has promised a full investigation.

MEL SEMBLER, U.S. AMBASSADOR TO ITALY: Nicola Kolopari is a friend and an ally to the United States and today his heroism must be evident to all of us.

VINCI: Accounts provided by U.S. forces in Baghdad indicate that the car in which Sgrena was traveling approached the checkpoint at high speed and ignored several warnings to stop.

PIER SCOLARI, PARTNER OF FORMER HOSTAGE (THROUGH TRANSLATOR): I have heard it was said that the Americans signaled many times to the car to stop, but Giuliana told me she didn't see anything. They were driving calmly. They had already passed many checkpoints, therefore everybody had been informed.

VINCI: What began as a successful operation to free a hostage quickly turned into a tragedy. Giuliana Sgrena's communist newspaper "Il Manifesto" was among the most vociferous critics of the U.S. invasion of Iraq. Their headline today, the agent was assassinated. In the streets of Rome, as people picked up the morning newspapers, anger and bewilderment.

TRANSLATOR: We were all so happy, says Marco Baronchelli (ph), a photographer, but after what happened, what can I say? We're all left speechless.

VINCI (on-camera): The incident will clearly test the strong relations between the U.S. and Italy and while the Americans have promised a full investigation, the Italian Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi is likely to come under renewed pressure to rethink his commitment in Iraq where Italy has more than 3,000 troops. Alessio Vinci, CNN, Rome.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KOPPEL: Checking other news around the world, Pakistani soldiers captured 11 al Qaeda suspects and killed two others in a raid near the Afghan border. A captain in the Pakistan army and a woman were injured in the action.

Intrigue in Ukraine, former president Leonid Kuchma is back in Kiev and denying allegations he had anything to do with a journalist's murder. His former interior minister who was about to be questioned by police, committed suicide and left a note attacking Kuchma. Ukraine authorities say they have made arrests in the death of the opposition reporter. All of the suspects were employees of Ukraine's interior ministry.

More hitches to the royal wedding plans of Prince Charles and Camilla Parker Bowles. At least nine formal objections to their April 8th civil ceremony have been filed. No details on the specifics, but a ruling is expected in coming days.

Now we bring you a look at North Korea few have ever seen. On a recent journey to China, CNN's Barbara Starr found herself surprisingly up close and personal with the secretive nation as she shows us now in her reporter's notebook.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In the early morning flight from Beijing, north to the city of Shen Yang (ph), CNN travels with a Pentagon team that has come to thank China for helping find the remains of Captain Troy Coke (ph), shot down 52 years ago during the Korean War. The search for Captain Coke's remains took place along the Yaloo (ph), the border between China and North Korea. He was shot down just inside China, but this journey will take an unexpected turn as the day unfolds. We travel one of China's most modern highways.

(on-camera): We are now on a three-hour drive through rural China to the city of Dandong, right on the North Korean Chinese border.

(voice-over): Dandong, a bustling, colorful Chinese port city of one million. We know North Korea is just across the river, but as we entered the city, it is so unexpected. There it is, the hermit kingdom, North Korea in full view. Our voices become hushed. We struggle to make out every detail. The shoreline of buildings and ships looks largely deserted. A lone patrol boat goes by. We board a Chinese boat, sailing past China's border control point at the bridge that joins both countries. The river is neutral territory. But we are stunned when the boat sails within yards of the North Korean shoreline.

The Chinese hosts know we are taking these sensitive pictures of a secretive North Korea. This is the North Korean town of Sineju (ph). As the warehouses, buildings and shore lines go by, we see a country in economic collapse. Smokestacks with no activity. We pass a bridge, destroyed and never repaired, a Ferris wheel that does not move. There is no electricity. At night, all of this is dark.

CNN turns off the video camera when the Chinese ask, but we are allowed to take photos. We said next to North Korean fishing boats, dozens rusting, tied up. There is no money for fuel. A close look at a North Korea few Americans have ever seen and remembering an American who fell here in a war long ago. Barbara Starr, CNN, on the Yaloo River between North Korea and China.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KOPPEL: So here's a question for you. Are you pink or are you blue? Not sure what we're talking about and it's not your mood. One expert says it has to do with your approach to doing business. Coming up, find out what you are and how you can improve your chances at enhancing your career. Plus the battle of the sexes in the examining room. The sometimes deadly differences between men and women when it comes to diagnosing heart disease.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KOPPEL: Randi Kaye is here with a preview of what's coming up later. Randi, what's on tap for 6:00 and 10:00?

RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Andrea, coming up today at 6:00, we're going to take you to California. We're going to introduce you to a mom and her four-year old daughter. This is a wonderful story. This four-year-old girl called 911. Her mother was having a seizure and she saved her mother's life. Her appendix was about to burst. We'll tell you how she guided 911 operators to her home. It's a really great story.

Coming up tonight at 10:00, we're going to introduce you to a man who hunted Osama bin Laden. He is the al Qaeda hunter. He was with the FBI for 30 years and his only regret is never catching Osama bin Laden. He also has some interesting things to say about bin Laden's background. Some of it may be true, may not be true. You'll hear his opinions tonight at 10:00.

KOPPEL: Part of a long list of people who want to catch that guy. OK Randi, thanks very much.

Now to an age-old debate. It's the battle of the sexes. Harvard President Lawrence Summers has been under fire recently since insinuating that women don't get the top math and science jobs because of what he called intrinsic aptitude, differences between men and women. While he has apologized for those provocative remarks, there is no end in sight to the debate over the hard wiring of men and women. Ronna Lichtenberg is author of "Pitch Like a Girl, How a Woman Can Be Herself and Still Succeed." She says gender differences don't have to hold either side back and Ronna Lichtenberg is joining me now from New York. So, Ronna, I understand you've come up with this very interesting kind of shorthand way for us to identify who we are, whether we have pink attributes or blue attributes. You also believe that you don't have to be one or the other, you can be a little of both.

RONNA LICHTENBERG, AUTHOR, "PITCH LIKE A GIRL": We are a little of both. I mean there are some people who are pink with blue stripes and some people who are blue with pink stripes. All it means is, say you either prefer to make a connection with people first before you get to task when you're doing business or you want to get right down to task and you don't care so much about connecting to other people. But either way is OK. Look, Larry Summers is very blue and he's doing OK with the little blip that he's had over the last few weeks.

KOPPEL: Well, what are the characteristics of a blue person versus a pink person?

LICHTENBERG: Blue person has what's called high systematizing abilities. They're linear. They hate emotion. They want other people to get to the point. Blue e-mail is just tell me what I need to do to get the job done. Rank and orders matters to a blue person, not naturally people person. They may be seen as cold and distant. Martha Stewart, for example, is often considered blue.

KOPPEL: And that's interesting, even though she is involved in very girly things?

LICHTENBERG: Right, but think about it. Even when she was in trouble at first, her focus was on getting her salad done.

KOPPEL: That's true. You've actually put together a quiz in your book that people can take the entire quiz if they want to at pitchlikeagirl.com. But one of the questions is when first meeting somebody, I like to know their credentials, where they work, their title, et cetera and depending upon if you answer yes, you're blue and if you answer no, you're a pink. Explain.

LICHTENBERG: Right. Somebody who's blue likes to know order, rank and hierarchy. So, a blue person will introduce herself by saying, I'm so and so. I'm vice president of such and such. My company has assets of X gazillion dollars. That's a blue introduction.

A pink person will tell you something about herself. The point is you want to adapt to the style of the other person. If you introduce yourself to a blue person by talking about your cats, they're not going to take you seriously. If you introduce yourself to a pink person by talking about your kids, they're going to know that you want to connect.

KOPPEL: So for any of our viewers who are watching, if they want to improve their opportunities on the job, what do you recommend?

LICHTENBERG: The first thing you need to know is your own style and to understand that any style can work. There's been this brainwashing for almost three decades that all women have to act like men, which means everyone has to be blue. That's ridiculous. You can do fine whatever your style is, but you want to learn your style and their style and when you're asking for something, which you should be doing a lot, pay attention to their style when you think about how you want to ask for it.

KOPPEL: If you're giving a presentation and you're speaking to both men and women, how do you know which part of your personality, which part of your pink or blue side you want to bring into that presentation?

LICHTENBERG: If it's in a big room, you just go blue. In any big corporate setting, when you have a room full of people, then you're probably going to be blue, but after the meeting, when there's someone that you want to talk to, it might be a pink person. I'm thinking about a pink person. That person may talk to you about the weather, may talk about what is going on in Atlanta today, will want to be looking to you for facial reactions indicating that she wants empathy, will want to talk about who we know in common. So it's after the meeting when you're connecting with that person you can go for a pink style.

KOPPEL: In your book you talk about brain sex differences. What do you mean by that?

LICHTENBERG: I think Larry Summers was half right and half wrong. If you look at the research on average, men and women are not wired exactly the same way. The way I think he was wrong is that his argument was that means that women can't succeed to the same degree which is just hogwash. The fact that we tend to be a little better at things like multi-tasking, that we tend to get more nonverbal cues, that we tend to have better connections between both sides of our brains so we can process emotion and logic at the same time. That's not a reason why we shouldn't do well at work.

KOPPEL: All right. I hear you. Believe me, I share your feelings. Ronna Lichtenberg, the author of "Pitch Like a Girl," joining us from New York, thanks so much.

LICHTENBERG: Thank you.

KOPPEL: More on the differences between the sexes in our "living well" segment today. Gender and heart disease, it seems that women have a lower survival rate. Why is that? Well, Dr. Bill Lloyd is a professor at the University of California Davis Medical Center and he's with us now from San Antonio, Texas. So Dr. Lloyd, why is that? Why do women have a higher rate of heart disease and deaths from that?

DR. BILL LLOYD, SURGEON: Well, Andrea, women don't survive heart attacks as well as men for many reasons and it all has to do with time -- the time it takes for them to get from their house to the hospital, 20 minutes longer, the time it takes for them to get to the emergency have to the cath lab, add another 15 minutes and the time it takes to perform angioplasty. So why all this time? Well, the time tracks back to symptoms. Women are raised to believe heart attack symptoms are just like men, so that when they have symptoms that suggest a heart attack, they're not familiar with it.

KOPPEL: And what are those symptoms?

LLOYD: Well with men, we've always been taught, crushing chest pain. I can't get up. Help me. But for women, it's more likely indigestion or the feeling of severe fatigue, like somebody just pulled the plug out. I'm awfully tired. You want to think about the possibility that it's a heart attack.

KOPPEL: But you know, I'm just trying to think how I would feel in that situation and suppose - you don't want to be over reacting if you've jut had a meal perhaps that might have disagreed with you. So how do you make the distinction between what might very well be indigestion and what might be a heart attack?

LLOYD: This isn't just a dizzy spell. If you're having a heart attack, you'll feel like you've never felt before. The first thing you do is call 911. If you want to take an aspirin after that, feel free, but you call 911 and if it's a false alarm, your doctors will educate you about your symptoms so it doesn't happen again. Don't be a doctor. Pick up the phone. Call 911 and get the care you need. There's no such thing as gender bias in medicine and women should get the same health care as men and should expect the same survivorship rates as men. Unfortunately, they don't Andrea.

Did you know women are more likely to have a second heart attack and they're less likely to survive one year after that first heart attack.

KOPPEL: So what do you recommend? I'm sure a lot of this is preventative and I'm just guessing you're going to tell women that they need to get regular check ups and need to get their blood cholesterol tested.

LLOYD: Those are important factors. Women who get heart attacks tend to get them later in life. They often have combined medical problems, like high blood pressure and diabetes. So as women get older and they receive continuous medical care, they and their doctors need to be aware of these symptoms of heart attacks, that they're not like ordinary heart attacks. They need to continue exercise. One study out of Florida says continuous exercise in older women, women over 70 is the best predictor, not cholesterol levels, as to whether or not they're going to get a heart attack.

Again, being familiar, don't wait for that feeling of tightness or pressure on your check. Instead, unusual feelings like a pain in the middle of the back, excessive sweating or again nausea, vomiting, think about could this be a heart attack? And when you get to the emergency room, ask them the exact same question because many people who are healthcare providers in the emergency room setting, also don't know the facts that women experience heart attacks very differently than men.

KOPPEL: Important advice and hopefully people will take that to heart, no pun intended, should they ever have any of those symptoms. Dr. Lloyd, thank you so much joining us from Texas.

LLOYD: We'll talk again soon.

KOPPEL: The judge in the Michael Jackson case is ordering Jay Leno to keep quiet. Up next, how the late night TV host is getting around the gag order.

And then online dating like you've never seen it before, redneck style. The love connection when CNN LIVE SATURDAY continues.

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KOPPEL: In case you thought the Michael Jackson case couldn't get any more bizarre, a stand in is delivers comedian Jay Leno's Jackson jokes on the tonight show. The NBC late night host is on the defense's witness list in the pop star's child molestation trial. That puts Leno under a gag order. So TV star Brad Garrett is firing off the jokes Leno can write but can't say.

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right. So let's see what's new in the Michael Jackson trial or as we like to call it, diary of a mad white woman. As we all know, Michael Jackson has been accuse of supplying wine to underage boys, what's Michael Jackson's favorite wine? C'mon, your mom won't know. Whew, whew.

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KOPPEL: Jay Leno is appealing that gag order.

It seems there is no place -- there is a place for anyone looking for love on the Internet, even self-proclaimed rednecks. Sara Dorsey's web surfing has turned up redneckandsingle.com.

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SARA DORSEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Need a date for the motor speedway? A new website is making love connections among self- described rednecks. How do you know if it's right for you?

UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: Wear flannel shirts and you drive an F150.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You have five cars parked in your driveway, and only one of them has a license plate.

DORSEY: And do you relate to Gretchen Wilson's song "Redneck Woman"? Becky Grimmer proudly does and she's searching for some country love online at redneckandsingle.com.

BECKY GRIMMER, REDNECK WEB SITE USER: I never thought I would ever go on to a dating service or try to meet anyone that way, but when I heard about it, when I actually went to the website, I thought they actually came out with one with me.

DORSEY: Grimmer is having some fun with it.

GRIMMER: My ideal redneck is an honest one with teeth. Teeth is the plural of tooth, that means a lot of them.

DORSEY: The site's inventor Kevin McIntosh, admits it's not for everyone.

KEVIN MCINTOSH, REDNECK WEB SITE FOUNDER: Look, if you're into backgammon and white zinfandel, redneckandsingle.com is not the place you want to be. Let me tell you that.

DORSEY: But after a month, there's more than 1,000 self- proclaimed rednecks to choose from. Red necks like Carl Lamson, just looking for love in someone with common interests.

CARL LAMSON, REDNECK WEB SITE USER: Their favorite sports are NASCAR, football and hockey/hockey fights. I like that part.

DORSEY: Is she someone you'd want to meet?

LAMSON: Yeah, it's somebody I'd sit down and have a beer with.

DORSEY: That's all Becky Grimmer wants, too, a guy who can keep up with her on the table and bleeds Ford blue, just like her.

GRIMMER: Does he have to have a little redneck in him to hang out with me? Probably, probably not to hang out with me, probably to put up with me.

DORSEY: Sara Dorsey, CNN, Clearwater, Florida.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KOPPEL: Forget the teeth, he's got to have a lot of teeth. That is all for this hour of CNN LIVE SATURDAY. Straight ahead, an encore presentation of PEOPLE IN THE NEWS with a look at the makeover of Martha Stewart and I'll be back in just a few minutes with the hour's headlines.

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