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CNN Live Saturday

Interview with Republican John Thune; Body Found Near Home of Missing Sarah Michelle Lunde

Aired April 16, 2005 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


ZAIN VERJEE, CNN ANCHOR: It is 2:00 p.m. in the east coast, 11:00 am in the West. Good afternoon, I'm Zain Verjee at CNN's global headquarters in Atlanta.
Ahead this hour, a body was found during the search for the Florida missing girl, the identity still unclear. We're going to have a live report with the details.

And, we've all heard about cases of identity theft, but now it's affecting children as well. From a newborn infant to a 3-year-old, how do you protect your kids?

Plus...

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm just waiting for the perfect timing. Just keep waiting for the perfect one, at the right time. Maybe when I get older, I might take a foster kid and adopt them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VERJEE: In search of a loving home, foster kids hope for this chance, and an art project could bring their dreams closer to coming true. Those stories in a moment, but first, a look at the headlines "Now in the News."

As Iraq puts the finishing touches on its transitional government, insurgents keep U.S. and Iraqi forces firmly in their sights with deadly results. A suicide attack in Baqubah is blamed for the deaths of five police officers and two civilians, and a roadside bombing in Taji killed one American soldier.

Thousands of protesters are filling the streets of China today throwing rocks, bottles, and tomatoes to protest against Japan. The Chinese are angry about Japan's approval of a history textbook that downplays its aggression during World War II, in what China calls Japan's failure to admit atrocities.

FDA is pulling the plug on advertisements on two popular drugs. Federal regulators say ads for Levitra and Zyrtec make unsubstantiated claims of superiority over similar products. This is the fourth such warning to Pfizer about Zyrtec allergy medicine. The FDA also says Bayer Pharmaceuticals failed to disclose warnings and product information about its erectile-dysfunctional drug, Levitra.

A girl missing, a body found. We begin with the painstaking search for 13-year-old Sarah Michelle Lunde and a painful discovery. Authorities say a body was found near the girl's home today.

CNN's Sara Dorsey joins us now live from Ruskin in Florida with the latest details. Sara?

SARA DORSEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Zain, it's a tense time here at the Apostolic Church near Ruskin. This was Sarah's church, and this has been command central for the sheriff's office here for five days as they search for Sarah Lunde, to no avail up until today. We just heard, not long ago, from the sheriff, at about 12:30 this afternoon that indeed, a body has been found. They have not yet identified this body as Sarah Lunde. The people here are waiting. Here is what sheriff had to say about that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SHERIFF DAVID GEE, HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY, FLORIDA: A body was found approximately one half mile south of our missing child's residence. It is in an abandoned fish farm. The body's partially submerged. Apparently had been submerged. Until today it was found by a search-and hear rescue dog. We are actively working that scene right now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DORSEY: And again that body was found about a half mile south of Sarah Lunde's home, where it believed that she disappeared from Saturday night after returning from a church retreat that morning. Again, police are still on that scene, attempting to, first of all, get the medical examiner out there, and then at some point identify that body. We are waiting for more information.

Searchers were out throughout the day, they've been out for five days looking for this little girl, more than 300 searchers out today. That included 100 law enforcement agents and 200 volunteers that gave their Saturday afternoon just to try to get some answers in this case. A girl that just vanished from home. She was left by herself according to family members. And of course now, people here are very much on edge waiting to see exactly what they might find out in the late afternoon hours.

I am joined here by Leslie Fontana, and Leslie, I know we've been talking, you were Sarah's best friend, one of her best friends. Tell me what she was like. Tell me about her. I hear she was a great person. And obviously to be your best friend. Tell me about her.

LESLIE FONTANA, FRIEND OF SARAH LUNDE: Yes, she's a really nice girl. We've been friends for like, three, four years. We used to live like close to each other until I moved. Then she moved. Then I moved again. But, yes, she's a really nice girl. We did a lot of stuff together. We had sleepovers at church. And she stayed at my house and we played volleyball and all that. DORSEY: Now, I know you -- told me that you also listened to the sheriff's announcement today from inside of the church. What went through your mind when he's saying the things that he said to us?

FONTANA: I just -- it went through my mind that I hope it's not her. It's really scary.

DORSEY: I couldn't imagine being 13-years-old and having to deal with something like this. You and your friends have been hugging and crying together and openly upset. What goes through your mind at this time hearing these things?

FONTANA: I don't know, it's just that it's awful. It's terrible.

DORSEY: And I know that you and your family is here with you. You're all just waiting to understand what's going to happen. Do you plan on staying here for a while tonight?

FONTANA: Yes, I'll probably be staying here until like 8:00 or 9:00 tonight, I'm not sure.

DORSEY: Why do you want to be?

FONTANA: To help find Sarah. To hope the body they found is not hers.

DORSEY: I know that the rest of America hopes the same thing for you all. It has to be so hard but on a good note, you and Sarah spent some time together. You really were one of the last people to see her besides her family members. Tell us what you all were doing on Saturday.

FONTANA: We were at my dad's birthday party. It was his 50th birthday party and a lot of the family and friends gathered in Medard Park in Plant City. And we played games and we had a water balloon fight. They got coolers and threw it on each other -- of water. And we had a really fun time and after the party, we went to play volleyball and then I had to go home. We stayed there until they kicked us out of the park. So, that's the last time I saw her.

DORSEY: So you had some great time with her?

FONTANA: Yes.

DORSEY: You had been a church retreat the night before, correct?

FONTANA: Yes.

DORSEY: And had some fun things happen there?

FONTANA: Yes.

DORSEY: Great. Well, I tell you, my heart goes out to you as you wait. I know it has to be so hard for you at 13. I will keep my fingers crossed. I thank you very much for joining us, OK? FONTANA: Thank you.

DORSEY: Thank you, Leslie.

Zain, as you can see everyone here on edge. Sarah's best friend out here with many of her other for other friends, openly upset at this point, just waiting to hear. She's told me over and over, I just hope this isn't her. I hope this isn't her. I think that's basically the general consensus out here. What everyone is thinking, please don't let this be the little girl, but sheriff said it himself, he doesn't think this is going to be a coincidence, only a half a mile south of the home that Sarah did disappear. Things not looking good right here. And of course, we will continue to follow this story and bring you up to date as soon as we get anymore information on it. Zain?

VERJEE: Sara Dorsey, thanks.

The sheriff in Florida also says that since the discovery of the body, it's been a very difficult time for the family of Sarah Lunde. Our next guest understands this pain. Mark Klaas, his daughter Polly was kidnapped and murdered in 1993. He now runs the Klaas Kids' Foundation in her honor, and he joins us now by telephone from Grass Valley in California.

Thank you so much for being with us. I just want to stress that we don't know the identity of the body. We don't know if it is the missing girl. But you've been in somewhat similar situation. And I'm sorry for that. But give us a sense of what the family going through?

MARC KLAAS, DAUGHTER POLLY WAS KIDNAPPED AND MURDERED: Well, you know, it's somebody's little girl. I mean, they found a body of a child. And it's somebody's child, whether it's hers or somebody else's, there is a family that's going to be absolutely devastated by the fact that a system that they had entrusted themselves in for so long, that would be the American system, has somehow failed. And that a little child who should have been safe is no longer with us.

So, there is huge anger. There's tremendous amounts of sadness. And there's a process of grief that's going to last an extended period of time. The reality is that a lot of families don't even recover from these kinds of tragedies. People will go into tailspins. They'll go into -- they'll fall into depression or alcoholism or drug abuse. Or they'll go into some weird denial which catches up to them at some point. Or they'll do, as people like Mark Lunsford and I have done, and they will find ways to fight back at the system, and make it better. So that hopefully these kind of tragedies don't occur in the future. But the immediate aftermath is unlike anything anybody should have ever to have to experience. It's so dark, it's so deep, and it's so devastating.

VERJEE: Mark, because we don't know the identity of the body yet, would the family, you think in this position, have any hopes they'll still be holding out?

KLAAS: Sure, of course. You hold out hope until it's confirmed. I know that from personal experience. You need somebody -- it's so overwhelming. It's so huge that it's the last thing in the world you ever want to accept. And until they can give you proof of death, I mean absolute proof of death, you're going to hang on to hope. I've seen people do it for years sometimes. And I can't blame them one bit. However, in the long run, it's better to know than never to know.

VERJEE: The sheriff went over to the house of the family, spoke to them. In this predicament, what would he be telling them, other than what he's already told us in the press conference? How would the sensitivity be handled by the sheriff?

KLAAS: I don't know that there is any way to handle it. I mean, what you do is you make sure the family learns from the authorities before they hear it on the television or the radio. That's the most important thing. And obviously, anybody with any sense of decorum is going to approach the family and do it in a very sensitive way, but there's really no way to lessen the blow, that the worst news you possibly could have heard has -- has come to pass. I mean, you basically have to be out front. You have to say it. You have to say it slowly and you hold hands and you cry with the family.

VERJEE: How did you deal with what happened to you and your family?

KLAAS: Well, we fought back. The interesting thing is when they finally gave us that proof of death, and this was after some period of time of believing that we were still going to get Polly back. After they gave you that proof of death, the police were cry, the FBI agent was crying. And they told my ex-wife and I, I understood this intellectually. I kind knew it was coming. I understood it. But it was hours before the emotional impact finally came home. And I would say two or three hours later, I realized what had really happened, what they had told me, and my entire world crashed in on me. The closest thing I could say was a portrayal of Sean Penn in "Mystic River" when he found out that his daughter had been murdered. That was by far the closest that I have ever seen that kind of a scene portrayed.

VERJEE: Mark Klaas, many thanks for your time. Appreciate it.

KLAAS: Sure.

VERJEE: We don't know the identity of the body just yet. Forensic experts, the sheriff told us just a short while ago, will be working intensely to verify the identity of the body that has been found. Robert Jensen is on the telephone right now. He joins you now. He's the president and CEO of Kenyon International. He's an expert in forensics.

First of all, I don't sound insensitive, but you have a body. What's the first thing do you?

ROBERT JENSEN, KENYON INTL. FORENSIC IDENTIFICATION: Well, there's two things that has to be done. They have to collect the ceased from the crime scene and preserve the evidence, because identification is one thing that needs to be done, but also determining what happened is as important. So we have to have the crime scene processed in a way that preserves all the evidence.

VERJEE: What will be used to accurately determine identification.

JENSEN: This, this case, a variety of methods from dental records, a finger or a footprint, or DNA. And I would imagine that the authorities have already collected DNA samples from the family. And have also started to put some records together, so that if this is the outcome, they can make it more quickly.

VERJEE: How long would it take from the discovery of the body and to knowing positively what identity the person that is deceased is?

JENSEN: Well, Florida has a very good medical examiner system. And they should, if they have records from the family be able to make an identification in 24 hours. But it's important to remember that the identification is again just one asset or one facet of this. It's very important to let the family know. And I echo Mr. Klaas' words, that whether this is the missing child or not, this is somebody's child. This is a person who will only come home one more time. And it's so important that they treat that system, that notification with that dignity and respect to the family's needs. So as they make this process in this investigation, that will take some time that may make the identification, not happen within the next few hours. But in a day or so.

VERJEE: Now, we heard from the sheriff that the body was partially submerged. If the body was in that sort of situation, and it could well be decomposed, I don't know. You can clarify that. What kind of complications, if any, does that provide forensic experts and medical examiners?

JENSEN: Well, it makes processing the scene in doing the recovery that much harder. It also makes the collection of evidence which can lead to the cause of death, whether it was a homicide and what type of homicide, it can make it more challenging to determine. Fortunately, the techniques that are out there today with X-ray, with DNA, with chemical trace analysis, make that not -- make it possible, it makes it more difficult. It certainly can delay identification. But again with good dental records, with DNA it's not going to have a negative impact by making it impossible.

VERJEE: Robert Jensen, the president and CEO of Kenyon International, giving us his perspective on some of the forensic and medical aspects that will probably be going on as we speak. We're going to take a short break. We'll continue in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VERJEE: Finance ministers from the world's richest nations vow to fix global economic imbalances. Ministers of the group of seven economic powers are meeting in Washington today. They're promising to fix global economic imbalance with vigorous actions. However, the finance ministers failed to reach a deal on how to help the world's poorest nations.

Drop the debt, that's what protesters are calling for, as the G-7 ministers meet. They're holding demonstrations in downtown D.C. Protesters want the world's riches nations to relieve the debts of developing nations.

CNN's Kathleen Hays is among those protesters and she joins us now live from Washington -- Kathleen.

KATHLEEN HAYS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Zain.

Well, as a matter of fact, it's a big quieter here in Morrow Park. Behind me you see the International Monetary Fund and the World Bank, where representatives from around the world are meeting to hammer out some of the big global economic problems. But of course as you mentioned, they are drawing protesters. Many from the D.C. area. But many from places, like, Brazil, South Africa.

They came and they beat their drums, and they danced and they chanted. They carried their paper-mache images. A young crowd, an earnest crowd. In many ways it felt like a party than a protest, but the message is serious. They say that International Monetary Fund and the World Bank policies help the rich and hurt the poor. And of course, at the top of the agenda forgiving the debts of the poorest nations.

The G-7 today in their statement said they're making progress heard that goal. Here in Morrow Park earlier, some protesters agreed.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's not a perfect proposal. But the fact that they're even considering that language, they wouldn't have been five years ago. We are making progress and we have to keep that going.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HAYS: Now, just about an hour or so ago, these protesters marched off to Dupont Circle, turning their back, they said, on the World Bank and the IMF, as they walked away. As they say those institutions turn their back on the poor. Of course, within the walls behind me, those delegates would disagree. They feel they are working out hard to hammer out this question, of how to fund, for example, cutting -- eliminating the debt of these third world companies.

UK, Exchequer Chancellor Gordan Brown has suggested why don't we sell-off some of the IMF's gold? And in fact, Oxfame (ph), a well known group that helps the poor, helps feed the poor make these facsimile gold bricks. They say the IMF is sitting on the biggest cache of gold in the world. And they say for example, if the IMF sold just 5 percent of its gold, it would pay for every child to Africa to go to school. That's the kind of thing we are hearing today, Zain.

VERJEE: Beyond the protesters, Kathleen, what kind of real support, real momentum exists for canceling the debt the world's poor nations?

HAYS: Well, certainly there was one soul who signed onto this in a big way, Pope John Paul in the year 2000, made this part of the jubilee pledge, to cut poverty. He called the level of global poverty in a world of so much wealth scandalous. He was well behind, a big proponent of eliminating the debt for the world's poorest nation. So there's obviously been some very serious voices, in addition to the ones here in the park, in the walls of the buildings behind me. Many people trying to figure out how to get this done.

VERJEE: CNN's Kathleen Hayes reporting from Washington.

Coming up on CNN LIVE SATURDAY, do these children have secret lives?

They did once their identity was stolen. Parent, beware. Not even your kids are safe from identity theft.

Plus an odd project that hopes to open hearts and fill homes.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VERJEE: Identity theft's been in the headlines all this week from hearings on Capitol Hill to the latest reports of widespread data theft. For the growing problem isn't just for people with the wallet full of credit cards, as our Aaron Brown reports, the nightmare can begin before you're even old enough to say your name let alone sign it on a check.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

AARON BROWN, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): At just 21 days old, Andrew Brooke was causing his parents a few more problems than your average infant.

JOHN BROOKE, ANDREW'S FATHER: I went out to get the mail one day and opened up the mail from a medical clinic. And realized that Andrew was being billed for an office visit for $94. Apparently he'd driven himself across town, walked in to see the doctor for a work- related back injury, and then prescribed a narcotic pain reliever that can sell for up to $30 a piece up the street.

BROWN: Since Andrew was barely drooling, let along walking and working, his parents suspected something was up.

BROOKE: The first thing we did is call the medical clinic and say, where did you get this information? What's going on? And they told us it had been provided by the person who had walked in.

BROWN: Andrew's full name appeared only on two pieces of paper -- his birth certificate and his medical records, and neither had left the Seattle area hospital where he was born. But the hospital told the family it found no evidence of a security breach, and police, the family says, were of little help.

BROOKE: It took two months to actually get them to even file the police report. And that was only after weekly phone calls from me, just badgering them until they finally filed one.

BROWN: No one has been arrested for stealing Andrew Brooks' identity, just as no one is usually arrested in such matters.

BROOKE: It's the fastest growing crime in this country. It's the most expensive crime to this country, costing between $46 and $53 billion a year -- that's billion with a "b" -- depending on whose study you look at. And what I find really amazing is fewer than one in 700 cases are even investigated.

BROWN: Compared to Andrew, Rebecca Bartelheimer was all grown up when at 3 years old her ID was stolen. Her mother learned this when she tried to open a savings account and found that her daughter's Social Security number was already in use.

MICHELLE BARTELHEIMER, REBECCA'S MOTHER: I felt very violated, because you know, I thought I was doing everything to protect her. And never even thought that I had to protect her from identity theft. You think of car seats. You think of helmets. You think of coats on a cold day. You never think of someone coming and stealing your child's identity.

BROWN: She has no idea how this happened, but says she spent 1,000 hours trying to undo the damage caused to her 3-year-old's credit rating.

BARTELHEIMER: And I just cry tears, because every day, all day I'd wake up and spend all day. If I wasn't taking care of my kids, I had to be on the phone, or on the Internet researching this and trying to track it down, and sitting on hold on the phone waiting for someone to talk to me. It was horrible. It was a nightmare.

BROWN: When you consider all the things that can happen to your child, identity theft may not seem like much. But as a parent, it does change you. It changed Andrew's dad, a lot.

BROOKE: You don't relax anymore. You're worried about everything. What information am I giving out? Who is going to use that information? How will it be used?

BROWN: Aaron Brown, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VERJEE: We're going to take a short break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VERJEE: Florida authorities have temporarily abandoned the search for 13-year-old Sarah Michelle Lunde after a search and rescue dog found a body in the creek near the missing girl's home. Police say they're not sure that it's a girl, but that it's a strong coincidence for a body to be found so close by.

Despite long security lines at airport, embarrassing searches and requests to hand over your shoes, one lawmaker says airport screening is no better now than it was before 9/11. The disappointing reviews contained in two yet to be government released report. The acting inspector general at Homeland Security say there are problems with training, management and policy.

The final Mass is said, the papal seal and ring broken. And the mourning period for pope John Paul II is officially over. The Cardinals are now gathering at a hotel where they will be housed during the secret conclave to choice a new pope. The meeting begins on Monday. CNN will be keeping watch at the chimney atop the Sistine chapel for signs of smoke.

To court news now, Michael Jackson's child molestation trial resumes on Monday, and it's expected the testimony will be dramatic. That's because one of the most highly anticipated witnesses returns to the stand, the accuser's mother.

And yesterday, she and Jackson's attorney, Thomas Mesereau went at it, during several heated exchanges. Mesereau tried to paint the mother as a liar, who's manipulating her son to get money out of the pop star. Under cross-examination, she admitted she had lied under oath a civil suit five years ago. She fired back at Mesereau at times, accusing him of trying to bully and humiliate her. At one point, she described Jackson's home this way.

"Now I know that Neverland is all about booze, pornography and sex with boys."

Judge ordered the unsolicited remark stricken from the record.

For more now on the Jackson trial, we turn to two of our favorite lawyers, civil rights attorney and law professor, Avery Friedman, and New York criminal defense attorney Richard Herman.

Thanks so much, gentlemen.

Richard, lets start with you. How did the mother do?

RICHARD HERMAN, NEW YORK CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: The mother was an absolute abomination for the prosecution, and a gift to the defense, Zain. This women -- when she was talking and looking at jurors, they were looking away from her. They didn't want to make eye contact with her. Mesereau got sucked into her a little bit, and it may have hurt the defense slightly. But I'm telling you, she admitted to Welfare fraud by basically taking the fifth, she admitted to soliciting money for cancer treatment for her child, when in fact all of that was paid for by insurance. In other words, she took that money and got plastic surgery for herself.

VERJEE: OK, all right, Avery do you agree?

AVERY FRIEDMAN, CIVIL RIGHTS ATTORNEY: Look, Zain, this was not a great witness for the prosecution, and yet it's an important witness. The difficulty here is she did not wax eloquent, but what she did was wax. What I mean by that is, she said she was being held hostage, Zain. And then when Mesereau was asking her questions, well, weren't you out for a body wax? She looks at jury bony and said no, it was a leg wax. So this is the sort of testimony that has not been good for the prosecution, but you know what, I think it's a mistake.

VERJEE: Why?

FRIEDMAN: To make a judgment at this point, because we still have a long way to go in this case.

HERMAN: Oh, please, Avery, this woman was absolute abomination. And I'm telling you, Sneddon is regretting that he even brought conspiracy charges against Jackson. It's the weakest of all of the charges. He needed her testimony. He had to put her on the stand. I mean, this woman who came across as feisty and strong, do you think that jury believes that she could be held against her will at Neverland, unbelievable.

FRIEDMAN: That's one of the issues. The problem is everybody is saying that Tom Sneddon is an idiot. You know what, he fact is that I think a lot of people are underestimating this guy. If you looked at totality of the evidence, not this evidence standing alone, Richard, there is a battle going on. And if you think that Michael Jackson's going to walk based solely on what happened on Friday, and maybe what we will see on Monday, you are dead wrong.

HERMAN: No, I think that this witness specifically hampered the prosecution case. He didn't need her. He shouldn't have had her.

FRIEDMAN: She was in the a good witness.

VERJEE: OK. All right. All right, now, look, the mother said this, gentlemen. "Now I know that Neverland is all about booze, pornography and sex with boys." The judge had ordered that remark stricken from the record. And does it matter that even though it's stricken from the record, it's just -- it's not there in writing, but does that sink in the jury in any way -- Avery.

FRIEDMAN: All right, I was going to say that, yes, if the jurors follow their oath, to listen to the instructions, the judge, yes, that will be disregarded. The reality though, Zain, is they are going to consider it. But you know, let me tell you something, Tom Mesereau made some inappropriate remarks and it resulted in the judge threatening to shut down the trial. So we've got a case that's almost out of control, both by the witnesses and by defense counsel. Like I say, we've got a while to go in this case. It's a premature to make a judgment on this.

HERMAN: But prosecution has the burden of proof. And if the case has become chaotic and a circus-like atmosphere, that bodes well for the defense. But, you know, Zain, she's made tremendous amount of gratuitous comments that were stricken from the record. And after a point, the jury does not like that. They don't appreciate it, and I'm telling you, it's going to absolutely hurt the prosecution.

FRIEDMAN: Well, they don't like Tom Mesereau either with his gratuitous remark and being warned by the judge, don't you agree with that.

VERJEE: All right. Go ahead, Richard. HERMAN: His gratuitous remark was that he thought she was a great actor, and I happen to agree with him on that.

VERJEE: What Mesereau is trying to do though, is paint the mother as a liar, as a greedy gold digger, manipulator. Is the defense doing a good job, Richard?

HERMAN: Well, Zain, fraud and perjury, that's basically the theme of the defense. That's how this woman's testimony began with the welfare fraud being stricken from the ability to cross-examine her. We have the J.C. Penney lawsuit, where she admitted she lied under oath for money. And you know, we also have the evidence the fact that she solicited money for cancer treatments, which she used for herself personally for plastic surgery. All of these lies for money...

FRIEDMAN: She's a lousy witness. No one will say she's been a great witness...

HERMAN: But she's the mother!

FRIEDMAN: In the context of the entire trial, yes, this was not a good day for the prosecution. But I think it's unfair to say, look it, it's all over. Michael Jackson's going to be acquitted. It's not going to happen, Richard.

HERMAN: No, and another thing, you know, you give Tom Mesereau a weekend to prepare for the witness, a combative witness like this. I'm telling you on Monday, it's going to be further annihilation of her.

FRIEDMAN: Well.

VERJEE: Look, now the defense -- sorry the judge didn't allow the defense to cross-examine about welfare fraud. Do you think, Avery, that was the right decision.

FRIEDMAN: You know, I will tell you something, I hate to agree with this guy, but I think -- I think in certain respect the judge is wrong. I mean, we're dealing with credibility. I think it's more compelling that's she's a welfare cheat, then she made misrepresentations concerning a civil action or other issues. And I'm actually astounded of that ruling. And you know what, Zain, I think that ruling, that alone provides the defense for an appealable issue in the event there is a conviction.

VERJEE: Do you agree with that, Richard?

HERMAN: Oh, I think it's open and shut reversible error. When you take that witness stand, you put your credibility at issue. And again, fraud and perjury those are the themes of the defense. By taking that away from the defense, the ability to cross-examine her and expose her untrustworthiness to this jury. I think the judge did an absolute disservice. And I think it's reversible error. Yes.

VERJEE: OK, Avery, Richard, who's winning? Which side is winning? From everything we have seen and heard!

FRIEDMAN: All right. Right now, again, I don't think it's responsible to say which side is winning. I think it's too early to judge. There's been important testimony in the prosecution. There's been some terrible testimony in the prosecution. We still got too far to go to make a judgment.

VERJEE: Richard.

HERMAN: Zain, the defense hasn't even put on a case yet. We cannot make that ultimate determination. Now, I'm still worried about the conservative jurisdiction, the jury pool, the eight women on this jury. That concerns me gravely as a defense attorney. And -- but it's much too early to make an ultimate guess or conjecture as to how this is going to turn out.

VERJEE: Well, responsible remarks from our favorite lawyers there. Thank you very much. Avery Friedman, a civil rights attorney, and law professor. Also New York criminal defense attorney Richard Herman.

Thank you so much, appreciate it.

FRIEDMAN: Nice to see you.

HERMAN: Thank you, have a good day.

VERJEE: Thank you.

We want to show you some live pictures now from Bay News 9 of Hillsborough County. These are aerial pictures that you're looking at. We've been following the story this afternoon of the missing Florida girl, Sarah Michelle Lunde. And authorities some -- about an hour or so ago had indicated a body had been found in the search of the girl. Authorities have not identified the body yet, and there is no clarification that it is in fact her. But it is a development in this story. We are look at live pictures again, if you are just joining us from Channel Bay News 9 in Ruskin, Florida. This is the area where this unidentified body has been found in Hillsborough County, Florida. Authorities indicated that a search and rescue dog discovered the body not far from Lunde's home.

The body itself partially submerged in water at an abandoned fish farm. Lunde's family also have been notified. The forensic and medical experts are in the process, as we speak, of examining the body, and going through the processes of identification. But the body was discovered of caucasion found about half a mile south of the missing child's residence.

We don't really know much more information than that. But all day and all night, we understand from the sheriff there that experts, forensic experts, medical experts, will be working on the scene. And we don't know how long it will take before there's a positive identification. When we spoke earlier to a forensic expert, he'd indicated it could take a few hours or as long as up to a day.

We're going to continue to bring you any developments we get in that story. Meanwhile, we take a break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VERJEE: Some of the world's best photographers are pointing their lens at some special kids. They're taking picture of older foster children in New Jersey, kids who otherwise might not be noticed.

CNN's Carol Costello has more now on the Heart Gallery.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just like that. Don't move! Don't move! Look right at the lens. That's good. Great! That's very nice.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): If a picture is worth a thousand words, can it also be worth one good home? Master prays at night.

(on camera): Have you lived in a series of foster homes?

MASTER: Yes.

COSTELLO (voice-over): He's smart, he's funny and he's looking for a mom and dad. The problem is he's not a bouncing baby boy anymore and not many people are willing to take him in at 12. But Master and the 327 other kids in the New Jersey foster care system will show the country what great kids they are through a lens of a camera.

It's called the Heart Gallery and it's the brainchild of Najlah Feanny-Hicks and a few of her closest friends.

NAJLAH FEANNY-HICKS, HEART GALLERY: It was the easiest project that has ever come together that I know of in any project that any of us ever worked for.

COSTELLO: The project is part of a nationwide effort, one that puts the kids in front of the cameras of some of the country's best photographers, guys like Jeffrey Salter, who has shot for "Sports Illustrated," James Salzano and Norman Lono, photographers who make a living shooting celebrities but are volunteering their time and talent here.

NORMAN LONO, VOLUNTEER: That's all we're trying to do is so that you shoot the kids so that people will look at them and go, yes, you know, I'll give them a chance.

COSTELLO: But with kids who have spent years in the system, it isn't always easy. And it isn't always about just finding a family.

LONO: A lot of them are really close. You have to work them really hard to get them to open that door, you know, and say hi, you know? So -- and once they do that you go wow, that's gold.

FEANNY-HICKS: For the 20, 30, 45 minutes that they're photographed by a photographer who just photographed Bruce Springsteen or the president, they feel special.

COSTELLO: Back to Master. For what's at stake, he's taking it all in stride.

MASTER: I'm ready for my close-up.

I always wanted to say that.

COSTELLO (on camera): Well, see, now you have your opportunity. And you look like a natural. Maybe this is your future.

MASTER: Maybe. I'll be the next Will Smith.

COSTELLO (voice-over): But for now his goals, like so many other kids in his position, are much simpler.

MASTER: I'm just waiting for the perfect home. I just, just keep waiting for the perfect one at the right time. Maybe when I get older, I might take a foster kid and adopt them, so if I'm not going to get helped, I'm going to help someone else. So anyway I win.

FEANNY-HICKS: My dream is for one child to find a family. I think that everything that we have done is for one child to, you know, wake up one day and call somebody mom and dad. That's our dream.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VERJEE: And you can learn more about the Heart Gallery at www.heartgallerynj.com.

CNN LIVE SATURDAY will continue in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VERJEE: He's been called David, a biblical reference to his defeat of Gloliath, Senate majority leader, Tom Daschle.

Now John Thune is one of the new young faces in the U.S. Senate and joins CNN's Robert Novak in this week's edition of "The Novak Zone."

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ROBERT NOVAK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Welcome to "The Novak Zone."

We're in Washington, D.C. at the Russell Center Office Building with one of the new Republican senators, John Thune of South Dakota. Senator Thune, in the last election, you defeated the Senate Democratic leader Tom Daschle, one of the most closely watched, hotly- contested races in the country. Do you find that the Democrats are resentful toward you?

Democratic senator for having defended their leader?

SEN. JOHN THUNE (R), SOUTH DAKOTA: I think a little bit of that in the early going. I think that dissipates over time. But, you know, that was a shock to I think the Washington establishment. And there were a lot folks who had worked closely with Senator Daschle in the years he was here. It's going to take a little bit of effort, I think, on my part to reach out to them. I've tried to do that to build some alliances across the aisle. And I hope that over time, we'll be able to secure the friendship and the ability to work successfully with people on the Democrats' side.

NOVAK: One of the campaign themes was that why should the people of South Dakota turn in -- exchange somebody who's been here for a long time, knew all of the rope for a freshman senator? Is it -- is it -- do you find it difficult to serve your constituents being a freshman?

THUNE: You know, I really haven't found that to be the case. My view is, and one of the central themes of my campaign was, in as much as Daschle had been here for a long time, and he was making the argument that that position was of value to the people of South Dakota, that the other side of that argument was that he was using that position in a way that was stopping and blocking the agenda.

And we'd been able to accomplish some things since I'd been here. Things that were stalled out in the last session of the Congress. And so, I'm hopeful we'll continue to build on that record of accomplishment. And I think as people see you get things done in the Senate, that all those campaign arguments tend to go by the wayside.

NOVAK: Senator Thune, you were a member of the House before came to the Senate. What's the difference between the House and the Senate? Is there a lot of difference.

THUNE: Well, clearly, these are very different institutions in terms of their culture, the rules. The Senate is -- or the House is very structured, it has rules that allow for how things are brought to the floor. It's much more I guess you could call it, efficient if you want to say that. But the Senate is more deliberative. And they have a different set of rules. The filibuster makes it possible for one person literally to shut the Senate down. I think that's probably the biggest difference, is the way in which we conduct our business. The process by which legislation moves. And sometimes that's frustrating to those of us who have come from the House. We like that structure, and used to that system of getting things done.

NOVAK: Do you think, as a senator, do you think you're catered to more in the culture of Washington, than you were as one of 435 House members?

THUNE: I think just the numerical advantage you have being one of the 100, as opposed to one of the 435 probably gives you perhaps a bigger platform from which to operate. I don't know that you're catered to any differently, but clearly these are two institutions that do operate in different ways. I think the public sees them as different. The House is the people's House, elected every two years, based on population. The Senate, of course, being every six years and each state having equal representation. So, I don't know that in Washington it's treated differently, I think the public observes them and notices that they are very different in the way that they function.

NOVAK: Senator, when I first came here almost 50 years ago, the big complaint by the public was that you couldn't tell the difference between the two parties. Well, nobody makes that complaint now. You can tell the difference. The complaint now is why are you people so partisan? Why can't you sit down and get along? Do your constituents in South Dakota say that? Do you think that's the problem, the partisanship?

THUNE: I think most people wanted to see their elected leader solve problems. And they want see you work together to do that. At the same time, there are deep differences in this country, and deep differences ere in the Senate and in the House over how best to address those problems, and that's part of the political process. Has it become more pronounced in the more recent years, possibly. Maybe because the margins are so narrow in both the House and the Senate. But I do think that there are very different views of how to solve problems, how to lead this country. And those conflicts, if you want to call that, play everyday in the Senate and the House.

NOVAK: Senator Thune, you were in a very, very close race for the Senate in 2002. You were defeated, came back, and you beat the Democratic leader. Did the -- the fact that you lost that race, and sat out for two years, has it changed the way you look at politics? Are you a different kind of senator do you think now, than if you had come in the first time?

THUNE: That's a good question, Bob. You know, I have thought about having been out of office, having lost a close election in the lessons that you learn. I do think it makes you less conscience perhaps of wanting to maintain popularity in that sort of thing. In the House, I had -- you know, I won by large margins when I was in the House. But when you lose a close race, and you come back and you run another one, and you run it because you believe that you have an opportunity to make a difference and have an impact, I think you become less concerned about necessarily what the public opinion polls say. And you just want to get here and get things done. And that's really been I think probably maybe one of the lessons I took out of losing the race, and being out of the process for a while. It's more about what you accomplish when you're here, rather than necessarily sometimes what the public opinion polls say.

NOVAK: And now the big question for Senator John Thune, Republican of South Carolina. Senator, you served three terms in the House, and you were a term limiter. You said you would only serve three terms.

Are you also a term limiter for your term in the Senate? Do you think that's a good idea.

THUNE: I didn't make that kind a commitment when I ran for the Senate this time. I do believe that it's -- I believe in the concept of a citizen legislator. I don't necessarily subscribe to this notion that people ought to make a career or life out of being in politics. I don't think I'll -- I certainly won't do that, but I did not make any specific commitments with respect to how much time I might serve. NOVAK: Senator John Thune, thank you very much.

THUNE: Nice to be with you, Bob.

NOVAK: And thank you for being in "The Novak Zone."

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VERJEE: You can catch more of Bob Novak tonight on the "CAPITAL GANG" at 7:00 p.m. Eastern. That's it for "CNN LIVE SATURDAY." We'll be back with a look at the headlines.

But first on this edition of tips from the top, how best-selling author Jack Canfield serves up success.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It took a while for publishers to want what Jack Canfield was trying to serve. But the author and co-creator of the best selling "Chicken Soup for the Soul Series" finally tasted success.

JACK CANFIELD, AUTHOR: We were turned down by 144 publishers. If we would have quit after the first one, we never would have never made it. If we'd after the 100th rejection we never would have made it. If you have a dream, don't stop. Keep going. Keep learning. Keep practicing until you get there.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sixty best selling books later, Canfield is hoping readers will find their own recipe for success in his new book.

CANFIELD: I think reading is critical to success because if you don't read you don't learn new information. The more books you read, the greater probability you'll find something that will change your life.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com


Aired April 16, 2005 - 14:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ZAIN VERJEE, CNN ANCHOR: It is 2:00 p.m. in the east coast, 11:00 am in the West. Good afternoon, I'm Zain Verjee at CNN's global headquarters in Atlanta.
Ahead this hour, a body was found during the search for the Florida missing girl, the identity still unclear. We're going to have a live report with the details.

And, we've all heard about cases of identity theft, but now it's affecting children as well. From a newborn infant to a 3-year-old, how do you protect your kids?

Plus...

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm just waiting for the perfect timing. Just keep waiting for the perfect one, at the right time. Maybe when I get older, I might take a foster kid and adopt them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VERJEE: In search of a loving home, foster kids hope for this chance, and an art project could bring their dreams closer to coming true. Those stories in a moment, but first, a look at the headlines "Now in the News."

As Iraq puts the finishing touches on its transitional government, insurgents keep U.S. and Iraqi forces firmly in their sights with deadly results. A suicide attack in Baqubah is blamed for the deaths of five police officers and two civilians, and a roadside bombing in Taji killed one American soldier.

Thousands of protesters are filling the streets of China today throwing rocks, bottles, and tomatoes to protest against Japan. The Chinese are angry about Japan's approval of a history textbook that downplays its aggression during World War II, in what China calls Japan's failure to admit atrocities.

FDA is pulling the plug on advertisements on two popular drugs. Federal regulators say ads for Levitra and Zyrtec make unsubstantiated claims of superiority over similar products. This is the fourth such warning to Pfizer about Zyrtec allergy medicine. The FDA also says Bayer Pharmaceuticals failed to disclose warnings and product information about its erectile-dysfunctional drug, Levitra.

A girl missing, a body found. We begin with the painstaking search for 13-year-old Sarah Michelle Lunde and a painful discovery. Authorities say a body was found near the girl's home today.

CNN's Sara Dorsey joins us now live from Ruskin in Florida with the latest details. Sara?

SARA DORSEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Zain, it's a tense time here at the Apostolic Church near Ruskin. This was Sarah's church, and this has been command central for the sheriff's office here for five days as they search for Sarah Lunde, to no avail up until today. We just heard, not long ago, from the sheriff, at about 12:30 this afternoon that indeed, a body has been found. They have not yet identified this body as Sarah Lunde. The people here are waiting. Here is what sheriff had to say about that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SHERIFF DAVID GEE, HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY, FLORIDA: A body was found approximately one half mile south of our missing child's residence. It is in an abandoned fish farm. The body's partially submerged. Apparently had been submerged. Until today it was found by a search-and hear rescue dog. We are actively working that scene right now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DORSEY: And again that body was found about a half mile south of Sarah Lunde's home, where it believed that she disappeared from Saturday night after returning from a church retreat that morning. Again, police are still on that scene, attempting to, first of all, get the medical examiner out there, and then at some point identify that body. We are waiting for more information.

Searchers were out throughout the day, they've been out for five days looking for this little girl, more than 300 searchers out today. That included 100 law enforcement agents and 200 volunteers that gave their Saturday afternoon just to try to get some answers in this case. A girl that just vanished from home. She was left by herself according to family members. And of course now, people here are very much on edge waiting to see exactly what they might find out in the late afternoon hours.

I am joined here by Leslie Fontana, and Leslie, I know we've been talking, you were Sarah's best friend, one of her best friends. Tell me what she was like. Tell me about her. I hear she was a great person. And obviously to be your best friend. Tell me about her.

LESLIE FONTANA, FRIEND OF SARAH LUNDE: Yes, she's a really nice girl. We've been friends for like, three, four years. We used to live like close to each other until I moved. Then she moved. Then I moved again. But, yes, she's a really nice girl. We did a lot of stuff together. We had sleepovers at church. And she stayed at my house and we played volleyball and all that. DORSEY: Now, I know you -- told me that you also listened to the sheriff's announcement today from inside of the church. What went through your mind when he's saying the things that he said to us?

FONTANA: I just -- it went through my mind that I hope it's not her. It's really scary.

DORSEY: I couldn't imagine being 13-years-old and having to deal with something like this. You and your friends have been hugging and crying together and openly upset. What goes through your mind at this time hearing these things?

FONTANA: I don't know, it's just that it's awful. It's terrible.

DORSEY: And I know that you and your family is here with you. You're all just waiting to understand what's going to happen. Do you plan on staying here for a while tonight?

FONTANA: Yes, I'll probably be staying here until like 8:00 or 9:00 tonight, I'm not sure.

DORSEY: Why do you want to be?

FONTANA: To help find Sarah. To hope the body they found is not hers.

DORSEY: I know that the rest of America hopes the same thing for you all. It has to be so hard but on a good note, you and Sarah spent some time together. You really were one of the last people to see her besides her family members. Tell us what you all were doing on Saturday.

FONTANA: We were at my dad's birthday party. It was his 50th birthday party and a lot of the family and friends gathered in Medard Park in Plant City. And we played games and we had a water balloon fight. They got coolers and threw it on each other -- of water. And we had a really fun time and after the party, we went to play volleyball and then I had to go home. We stayed there until they kicked us out of the park. So, that's the last time I saw her.

DORSEY: So you had some great time with her?

FONTANA: Yes.

DORSEY: You had been a church retreat the night before, correct?

FONTANA: Yes.

DORSEY: And had some fun things happen there?

FONTANA: Yes.

DORSEY: Great. Well, I tell you, my heart goes out to you as you wait. I know it has to be so hard for you at 13. I will keep my fingers crossed. I thank you very much for joining us, OK? FONTANA: Thank you.

DORSEY: Thank you, Leslie.

Zain, as you can see everyone here on edge. Sarah's best friend out here with many of her other for other friends, openly upset at this point, just waiting to hear. She's told me over and over, I just hope this isn't her. I hope this isn't her. I think that's basically the general consensus out here. What everyone is thinking, please don't let this be the little girl, but sheriff said it himself, he doesn't think this is going to be a coincidence, only a half a mile south of the home that Sarah did disappear. Things not looking good right here. And of course, we will continue to follow this story and bring you up to date as soon as we get anymore information on it. Zain?

VERJEE: Sara Dorsey, thanks.

The sheriff in Florida also says that since the discovery of the body, it's been a very difficult time for the family of Sarah Lunde. Our next guest understands this pain. Mark Klaas, his daughter Polly was kidnapped and murdered in 1993. He now runs the Klaas Kids' Foundation in her honor, and he joins us now by telephone from Grass Valley in California.

Thank you so much for being with us. I just want to stress that we don't know the identity of the body. We don't know if it is the missing girl. But you've been in somewhat similar situation. And I'm sorry for that. But give us a sense of what the family going through?

MARC KLAAS, DAUGHTER POLLY WAS KIDNAPPED AND MURDERED: Well, you know, it's somebody's little girl. I mean, they found a body of a child. And it's somebody's child, whether it's hers or somebody else's, there is a family that's going to be absolutely devastated by the fact that a system that they had entrusted themselves in for so long, that would be the American system, has somehow failed. And that a little child who should have been safe is no longer with us.

So, there is huge anger. There's tremendous amounts of sadness. And there's a process of grief that's going to last an extended period of time. The reality is that a lot of families don't even recover from these kinds of tragedies. People will go into tailspins. They'll go into -- they'll fall into depression or alcoholism or drug abuse. Or they'll go into some weird denial which catches up to them at some point. Or they'll do, as people like Mark Lunsford and I have done, and they will find ways to fight back at the system, and make it better. So that hopefully these kind of tragedies don't occur in the future. But the immediate aftermath is unlike anything anybody should have ever to have to experience. It's so dark, it's so deep, and it's so devastating.

VERJEE: Mark, because we don't know the identity of the body yet, would the family, you think in this position, have any hopes they'll still be holding out?

KLAAS: Sure, of course. You hold out hope until it's confirmed. I know that from personal experience. You need somebody -- it's so overwhelming. It's so huge that it's the last thing in the world you ever want to accept. And until they can give you proof of death, I mean absolute proof of death, you're going to hang on to hope. I've seen people do it for years sometimes. And I can't blame them one bit. However, in the long run, it's better to know than never to know.

VERJEE: The sheriff went over to the house of the family, spoke to them. In this predicament, what would he be telling them, other than what he's already told us in the press conference? How would the sensitivity be handled by the sheriff?

KLAAS: I don't know that there is any way to handle it. I mean, what you do is you make sure the family learns from the authorities before they hear it on the television or the radio. That's the most important thing. And obviously, anybody with any sense of decorum is going to approach the family and do it in a very sensitive way, but there's really no way to lessen the blow, that the worst news you possibly could have heard has -- has come to pass. I mean, you basically have to be out front. You have to say it. You have to say it slowly and you hold hands and you cry with the family.

VERJEE: How did you deal with what happened to you and your family?

KLAAS: Well, we fought back. The interesting thing is when they finally gave us that proof of death, and this was after some period of time of believing that we were still going to get Polly back. After they gave you that proof of death, the police were cry, the FBI agent was crying. And they told my ex-wife and I, I understood this intellectually. I kind knew it was coming. I understood it. But it was hours before the emotional impact finally came home. And I would say two or three hours later, I realized what had really happened, what they had told me, and my entire world crashed in on me. The closest thing I could say was a portrayal of Sean Penn in "Mystic River" when he found out that his daughter had been murdered. That was by far the closest that I have ever seen that kind of a scene portrayed.

VERJEE: Mark Klaas, many thanks for your time. Appreciate it.

KLAAS: Sure.

VERJEE: We don't know the identity of the body just yet. Forensic experts, the sheriff told us just a short while ago, will be working intensely to verify the identity of the body that has been found. Robert Jensen is on the telephone right now. He joins you now. He's the president and CEO of Kenyon International. He's an expert in forensics.

First of all, I don't sound insensitive, but you have a body. What's the first thing do you?

ROBERT JENSEN, KENYON INTL. FORENSIC IDENTIFICATION: Well, there's two things that has to be done. They have to collect the ceased from the crime scene and preserve the evidence, because identification is one thing that needs to be done, but also determining what happened is as important. So we have to have the crime scene processed in a way that preserves all the evidence.

VERJEE: What will be used to accurately determine identification.

JENSEN: This, this case, a variety of methods from dental records, a finger or a footprint, or DNA. And I would imagine that the authorities have already collected DNA samples from the family. And have also started to put some records together, so that if this is the outcome, they can make it more quickly.

VERJEE: How long would it take from the discovery of the body and to knowing positively what identity the person that is deceased is?

JENSEN: Well, Florida has a very good medical examiner system. And they should, if they have records from the family be able to make an identification in 24 hours. But it's important to remember that the identification is again just one asset or one facet of this. It's very important to let the family know. And I echo Mr. Klaas' words, that whether this is the missing child or not, this is somebody's child. This is a person who will only come home one more time. And it's so important that they treat that system, that notification with that dignity and respect to the family's needs. So as they make this process in this investigation, that will take some time that may make the identification, not happen within the next few hours. But in a day or so.

VERJEE: Now, we heard from the sheriff that the body was partially submerged. If the body was in that sort of situation, and it could well be decomposed, I don't know. You can clarify that. What kind of complications, if any, does that provide forensic experts and medical examiners?

JENSEN: Well, it makes processing the scene in doing the recovery that much harder. It also makes the collection of evidence which can lead to the cause of death, whether it was a homicide and what type of homicide, it can make it more challenging to determine. Fortunately, the techniques that are out there today with X-ray, with DNA, with chemical trace analysis, make that not -- make it possible, it makes it more difficult. It certainly can delay identification. But again with good dental records, with DNA it's not going to have a negative impact by making it impossible.

VERJEE: Robert Jensen, the president and CEO of Kenyon International, giving us his perspective on some of the forensic and medical aspects that will probably be going on as we speak. We're going to take a short break. We'll continue in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VERJEE: Finance ministers from the world's richest nations vow to fix global economic imbalances. Ministers of the group of seven economic powers are meeting in Washington today. They're promising to fix global economic imbalance with vigorous actions. However, the finance ministers failed to reach a deal on how to help the world's poorest nations.

Drop the debt, that's what protesters are calling for, as the G-7 ministers meet. They're holding demonstrations in downtown D.C. Protesters want the world's riches nations to relieve the debts of developing nations.

CNN's Kathleen Hays is among those protesters and she joins us now live from Washington -- Kathleen.

KATHLEEN HAYS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Zain.

Well, as a matter of fact, it's a big quieter here in Morrow Park. Behind me you see the International Monetary Fund and the World Bank, where representatives from around the world are meeting to hammer out some of the big global economic problems. But of course as you mentioned, they are drawing protesters. Many from the D.C. area. But many from places, like, Brazil, South Africa.

They came and they beat their drums, and they danced and they chanted. They carried their paper-mache images. A young crowd, an earnest crowd. In many ways it felt like a party than a protest, but the message is serious. They say that International Monetary Fund and the World Bank policies help the rich and hurt the poor. And of course, at the top of the agenda forgiving the debts of the poorest nations.

The G-7 today in their statement said they're making progress heard that goal. Here in Morrow Park earlier, some protesters agreed.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's not a perfect proposal. But the fact that they're even considering that language, they wouldn't have been five years ago. We are making progress and we have to keep that going.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HAYS: Now, just about an hour or so ago, these protesters marched off to Dupont Circle, turning their back, they said, on the World Bank and the IMF, as they walked away. As they say those institutions turn their back on the poor. Of course, within the walls behind me, those delegates would disagree. They feel they are working out hard to hammer out this question, of how to fund, for example, cutting -- eliminating the debt of these third world companies.

UK, Exchequer Chancellor Gordan Brown has suggested why don't we sell-off some of the IMF's gold? And in fact, Oxfame (ph), a well known group that helps the poor, helps feed the poor make these facsimile gold bricks. They say the IMF is sitting on the biggest cache of gold in the world. And they say for example, if the IMF sold just 5 percent of its gold, it would pay for every child to Africa to go to school. That's the kind of thing we are hearing today, Zain.

VERJEE: Beyond the protesters, Kathleen, what kind of real support, real momentum exists for canceling the debt the world's poor nations?

HAYS: Well, certainly there was one soul who signed onto this in a big way, Pope John Paul in the year 2000, made this part of the jubilee pledge, to cut poverty. He called the level of global poverty in a world of so much wealth scandalous. He was well behind, a big proponent of eliminating the debt for the world's poorest nation. So there's obviously been some very serious voices, in addition to the ones here in the park, in the walls of the buildings behind me. Many people trying to figure out how to get this done.

VERJEE: CNN's Kathleen Hayes reporting from Washington.

Coming up on CNN LIVE SATURDAY, do these children have secret lives?

They did once their identity was stolen. Parent, beware. Not even your kids are safe from identity theft.

Plus an odd project that hopes to open hearts and fill homes.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VERJEE: Identity theft's been in the headlines all this week from hearings on Capitol Hill to the latest reports of widespread data theft. For the growing problem isn't just for people with the wallet full of credit cards, as our Aaron Brown reports, the nightmare can begin before you're even old enough to say your name let alone sign it on a check.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

AARON BROWN, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): At just 21 days old, Andrew Brooke was causing his parents a few more problems than your average infant.

JOHN BROOKE, ANDREW'S FATHER: I went out to get the mail one day and opened up the mail from a medical clinic. And realized that Andrew was being billed for an office visit for $94. Apparently he'd driven himself across town, walked in to see the doctor for a work- related back injury, and then prescribed a narcotic pain reliever that can sell for up to $30 a piece up the street.

BROWN: Since Andrew was barely drooling, let along walking and working, his parents suspected something was up.

BROOKE: The first thing we did is call the medical clinic and say, where did you get this information? What's going on? And they told us it had been provided by the person who had walked in.

BROWN: Andrew's full name appeared only on two pieces of paper -- his birth certificate and his medical records, and neither had left the Seattle area hospital where he was born. But the hospital told the family it found no evidence of a security breach, and police, the family says, were of little help.

BROOKE: It took two months to actually get them to even file the police report. And that was only after weekly phone calls from me, just badgering them until they finally filed one.

BROWN: No one has been arrested for stealing Andrew Brooks' identity, just as no one is usually arrested in such matters.

BROOKE: It's the fastest growing crime in this country. It's the most expensive crime to this country, costing between $46 and $53 billion a year -- that's billion with a "b" -- depending on whose study you look at. And what I find really amazing is fewer than one in 700 cases are even investigated.

BROWN: Compared to Andrew, Rebecca Bartelheimer was all grown up when at 3 years old her ID was stolen. Her mother learned this when she tried to open a savings account and found that her daughter's Social Security number was already in use.

MICHELLE BARTELHEIMER, REBECCA'S MOTHER: I felt very violated, because you know, I thought I was doing everything to protect her. And never even thought that I had to protect her from identity theft. You think of car seats. You think of helmets. You think of coats on a cold day. You never think of someone coming and stealing your child's identity.

BROWN: She has no idea how this happened, but says she spent 1,000 hours trying to undo the damage caused to her 3-year-old's credit rating.

BARTELHEIMER: And I just cry tears, because every day, all day I'd wake up and spend all day. If I wasn't taking care of my kids, I had to be on the phone, or on the Internet researching this and trying to track it down, and sitting on hold on the phone waiting for someone to talk to me. It was horrible. It was a nightmare.

BROWN: When you consider all the things that can happen to your child, identity theft may not seem like much. But as a parent, it does change you. It changed Andrew's dad, a lot.

BROOKE: You don't relax anymore. You're worried about everything. What information am I giving out? Who is going to use that information? How will it be used?

BROWN: Aaron Brown, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VERJEE: We're going to take a short break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VERJEE: Florida authorities have temporarily abandoned the search for 13-year-old Sarah Michelle Lunde after a search and rescue dog found a body in the creek near the missing girl's home. Police say they're not sure that it's a girl, but that it's a strong coincidence for a body to be found so close by.

Despite long security lines at airport, embarrassing searches and requests to hand over your shoes, one lawmaker says airport screening is no better now than it was before 9/11. The disappointing reviews contained in two yet to be government released report. The acting inspector general at Homeland Security say there are problems with training, management and policy.

The final Mass is said, the papal seal and ring broken. And the mourning period for pope John Paul II is officially over. The Cardinals are now gathering at a hotel where they will be housed during the secret conclave to choice a new pope. The meeting begins on Monday. CNN will be keeping watch at the chimney atop the Sistine chapel for signs of smoke.

To court news now, Michael Jackson's child molestation trial resumes on Monday, and it's expected the testimony will be dramatic. That's because one of the most highly anticipated witnesses returns to the stand, the accuser's mother.

And yesterday, she and Jackson's attorney, Thomas Mesereau went at it, during several heated exchanges. Mesereau tried to paint the mother as a liar, who's manipulating her son to get money out of the pop star. Under cross-examination, she admitted she had lied under oath a civil suit five years ago. She fired back at Mesereau at times, accusing him of trying to bully and humiliate her. At one point, she described Jackson's home this way.

"Now I know that Neverland is all about booze, pornography and sex with boys."

Judge ordered the unsolicited remark stricken from the record.

For more now on the Jackson trial, we turn to two of our favorite lawyers, civil rights attorney and law professor, Avery Friedman, and New York criminal defense attorney Richard Herman.

Thanks so much, gentlemen.

Richard, lets start with you. How did the mother do?

RICHARD HERMAN, NEW YORK CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: The mother was an absolute abomination for the prosecution, and a gift to the defense, Zain. This women -- when she was talking and looking at jurors, they were looking away from her. They didn't want to make eye contact with her. Mesereau got sucked into her a little bit, and it may have hurt the defense slightly. But I'm telling you, she admitted to Welfare fraud by basically taking the fifth, she admitted to soliciting money for cancer treatment for her child, when in fact all of that was paid for by insurance. In other words, she took that money and got plastic surgery for herself.

VERJEE: OK, all right, Avery do you agree?

AVERY FRIEDMAN, CIVIL RIGHTS ATTORNEY: Look, Zain, this was not a great witness for the prosecution, and yet it's an important witness. The difficulty here is she did not wax eloquent, but what she did was wax. What I mean by that is, she said she was being held hostage, Zain. And then when Mesereau was asking her questions, well, weren't you out for a body wax? She looks at jury bony and said no, it was a leg wax. So this is the sort of testimony that has not been good for the prosecution, but you know what, I think it's a mistake.

VERJEE: Why?

FRIEDMAN: To make a judgment at this point, because we still have a long way to go in this case.

HERMAN: Oh, please, Avery, this woman was absolute abomination. And I'm telling you, Sneddon is regretting that he even brought conspiracy charges against Jackson. It's the weakest of all of the charges. He needed her testimony. He had to put her on the stand. I mean, this woman who came across as feisty and strong, do you think that jury believes that she could be held against her will at Neverland, unbelievable.

FRIEDMAN: That's one of the issues. The problem is everybody is saying that Tom Sneddon is an idiot. You know what, he fact is that I think a lot of people are underestimating this guy. If you looked at totality of the evidence, not this evidence standing alone, Richard, there is a battle going on. And if you think that Michael Jackson's going to walk based solely on what happened on Friday, and maybe what we will see on Monday, you are dead wrong.

HERMAN: No, I think that this witness specifically hampered the prosecution case. He didn't need her. He shouldn't have had her.

FRIEDMAN: She was in the a good witness.

VERJEE: OK. All right. All right, now, look, the mother said this, gentlemen. "Now I know that Neverland is all about booze, pornography and sex with boys." The judge had ordered that remark stricken from the record. And does it matter that even though it's stricken from the record, it's just -- it's not there in writing, but does that sink in the jury in any way -- Avery.

FRIEDMAN: All right, I was going to say that, yes, if the jurors follow their oath, to listen to the instructions, the judge, yes, that will be disregarded. The reality though, Zain, is they are going to consider it. But you know, let me tell you something, Tom Mesereau made some inappropriate remarks and it resulted in the judge threatening to shut down the trial. So we've got a case that's almost out of control, both by the witnesses and by defense counsel. Like I say, we've got a while to go in this case. It's a premature to make a judgment on this.

HERMAN: But prosecution has the burden of proof. And if the case has become chaotic and a circus-like atmosphere, that bodes well for the defense. But, you know, Zain, she's made tremendous amount of gratuitous comments that were stricken from the record. And after a point, the jury does not like that. They don't appreciate it, and I'm telling you, it's going to absolutely hurt the prosecution.

FRIEDMAN: Well, they don't like Tom Mesereau either with his gratuitous remark and being warned by the judge, don't you agree with that.

VERJEE: All right. Go ahead, Richard. HERMAN: His gratuitous remark was that he thought she was a great actor, and I happen to agree with him on that.

VERJEE: What Mesereau is trying to do though, is paint the mother as a liar, as a greedy gold digger, manipulator. Is the defense doing a good job, Richard?

HERMAN: Well, Zain, fraud and perjury, that's basically the theme of the defense. That's how this woman's testimony began with the welfare fraud being stricken from the ability to cross-examine her. We have the J.C. Penney lawsuit, where she admitted she lied under oath for money. And you know, we also have the evidence the fact that she solicited money for cancer treatments, which she used for herself personally for plastic surgery. All of these lies for money...

FRIEDMAN: She's a lousy witness. No one will say she's been a great witness...

HERMAN: But she's the mother!

FRIEDMAN: In the context of the entire trial, yes, this was not a good day for the prosecution. But I think it's unfair to say, look it, it's all over. Michael Jackson's going to be acquitted. It's not going to happen, Richard.

HERMAN: No, and another thing, you know, you give Tom Mesereau a weekend to prepare for the witness, a combative witness like this. I'm telling you on Monday, it's going to be further annihilation of her.

FRIEDMAN: Well.

VERJEE: Look, now the defense -- sorry the judge didn't allow the defense to cross-examine about welfare fraud. Do you think, Avery, that was the right decision.

FRIEDMAN: You know, I will tell you something, I hate to agree with this guy, but I think -- I think in certain respect the judge is wrong. I mean, we're dealing with credibility. I think it's more compelling that's she's a welfare cheat, then she made misrepresentations concerning a civil action or other issues. And I'm actually astounded of that ruling. And you know what, Zain, I think that ruling, that alone provides the defense for an appealable issue in the event there is a conviction.

VERJEE: Do you agree with that, Richard?

HERMAN: Oh, I think it's open and shut reversible error. When you take that witness stand, you put your credibility at issue. And again, fraud and perjury those are the themes of the defense. By taking that away from the defense, the ability to cross-examine her and expose her untrustworthiness to this jury. I think the judge did an absolute disservice. And I think it's reversible error. Yes.

VERJEE: OK, Avery, Richard, who's winning? Which side is winning? From everything we have seen and heard!

FRIEDMAN: All right. Right now, again, I don't think it's responsible to say which side is winning. I think it's too early to judge. There's been important testimony in the prosecution. There's been some terrible testimony in the prosecution. We still got too far to go to make a judgment.

VERJEE: Richard.

HERMAN: Zain, the defense hasn't even put on a case yet. We cannot make that ultimate determination. Now, I'm still worried about the conservative jurisdiction, the jury pool, the eight women on this jury. That concerns me gravely as a defense attorney. And -- but it's much too early to make an ultimate guess or conjecture as to how this is going to turn out.

VERJEE: Well, responsible remarks from our favorite lawyers there. Thank you very much. Avery Friedman, a civil rights attorney, and law professor. Also New York criminal defense attorney Richard Herman.

Thank you so much, appreciate it.

FRIEDMAN: Nice to see you.

HERMAN: Thank you, have a good day.

VERJEE: Thank you.

We want to show you some live pictures now from Bay News 9 of Hillsborough County. These are aerial pictures that you're looking at. We've been following the story this afternoon of the missing Florida girl, Sarah Michelle Lunde. And authorities some -- about an hour or so ago had indicated a body had been found in the search of the girl. Authorities have not identified the body yet, and there is no clarification that it is in fact her. But it is a development in this story. We are look at live pictures again, if you are just joining us from Channel Bay News 9 in Ruskin, Florida. This is the area where this unidentified body has been found in Hillsborough County, Florida. Authorities indicated that a search and rescue dog discovered the body not far from Lunde's home.

The body itself partially submerged in water at an abandoned fish farm. Lunde's family also have been notified. The forensic and medical experts are in the process, as we speak, of examining the body, and going through the processes of identification. But the body was discovered of caucasion found about half a mile south of the missing child's residence.

We don't really know much more information than that. But all day and all night, we understand from the sheriff there that experts, forensic experts, medical experts, will be working on the scene. And we don't know how long it will take before there's a positive identification. When we spoke earlier to a forensic expert, he'd indicated it could take a few hours or as long as up to a day.

We're going to continue to bring you any developments we get in that story. Meanwhile, we take a break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VERJEE: Some of the world's best photographers are pointing their lens at some special kids. They're taking picture of older foster children in New Jersey, kids who otherwise might not be noticed.

CNN's Carol Costello has more now on the Heart Gallery.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just like that. Don't move! Don't move! Look right at the lens. That's good. Great! That's very nice.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): If a picture is worth a thousand words, can it also be worth one good home? Master prays at night.

(on camera): Have you lived in a series of foster homes?

MASTER: Yes.

COSTELLO (voice-over): He's smart, he's funny and he's looking for a mom and dad. The problem is he's not a bouncing baby boy anymore and not many people are willing to take him in at 12. But Master and the 327 other kids in the New Jersey foster care system will show the country what great kids they are through a lens of a camera.

It's called the Heart Gallery and it's the brainchild of Najlah Feanny-Hicks and a few of her closest friends.

NAJLAH FEANNY-HICKS, HEART GALLERY: It was the easiest project that has ever come together that I know of in any project that any of us ever worked for.

COSTELLO: The project is part of a nationwide effort, one that puts the kids in front of the cameras of some of the country's best photographers, guys like Jeffrey Salter, who has shot for "Sports Illustrated," James Salzano and Norman Lono, photographers who make a living shooting celebrities but are volunteering their time and talent here.

NORMAN LONO, VOLUNTEER: That's all we're trying to do is so that you shoot the kids so that people will look at them and go, yes, you know, I'll give them a chance.

COSTELLO: But with kids who have spent years in the system, it isn't always easy. And it isn't always about just finding a family.

LONO: A lot of them are really close. You have to work them really hard to get them to open that door, you know, and say hi, you know? So -- and once they do that you go wow, that's gold.

FEANNY-HICKS: For the 20, 30, 45 minutes that they're photographed by a photographer who just photographed Bruce Springsteen or the president, they feel special.

COSTELLO: Back to Master. For what's at stake, he's taking it all in stride.

MASTER: I'm ready for my close-up.

I always wanted to say that.

COSTELLO (on camera): Well, see, now you have your opportunity. And you look like a natural. Maybe this is your future.

MASTER: Maybe. I'll be the next Will Smith.

COSTELLO (voice-over): But for now his goals, like so many other kids in his position, are much simpler.

MASTER: I'm just waiting for the perfect home. I just, just keep waiting for the perfect one at the right time. Maybe when I get older, I might take a foster kid and adopt them, so if I'm not going to get helped, I'm going to help someone else. So anyway I win.

FEANNY-HICKS: My dream is for one child to find a family. I think that everything that we have done is for one child to, you know, wake up one day and call somebody mom and dad. That's our dream.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VERJEE: And you can learn more about the Heart Gallery at www.heartgallerynj.com.

CNN LIVE SATURDAY will continue in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VERJEE: He's been called David, a biblical reference to his defeat of Gloliath, Senate majority leader, Tom Daschle.

Now John Thune is one of the new young faces in the U.S. Senate and joins CNN's Robert Novak in this week's edition of "The Novak Zone."

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ROBERT NOVAK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Welcome to "The Novak Zone."

We're in Washington, D.C. at the Russell Center Office Building with one of the new Republican senators, John Thune of South Dakota. Senator Thune, in the last election, you defeated the Senate Democratic leader Tom Daschle, one of the most closely watched, hotly- contested races in the country. Do you find that the Democrats are resentful toward you?

Democratic senator for having defended their leader?

SEN. JOHN THUNE (R), SOUTH DAKOTA: I think a little bit of that in the early going. I think that dissipates over time. But, you know, that was a shock to I think the Washington establishment. And there were a lot folks who had worked closely with Senator Daschle in the years he was here. It's going to take a little bit of effort, I think, on my part to reach out to them. I've tried to do that to build some alliances across the aisle. And I hope that over time, we'll be able to secure the friendship and the ability to work successfully with people on the Democrats' side.

NOVAK: One of the campaign themes was that why should the people of South Dakota turn in -- exchange somebody who's been here for a long time, knew all of the rope for a freshman senator? Is it -- is it -- do you find it difficult to serve your constituents being a freshman?

THUNE: You know, I really haven't found that to be the case. My view is, and one of the central themes of my campaign was, in as much as Daschle had been here for a long time, and he was making the argument that that position was of value to the people of South Dakota, that the other side of that argument was that he was using that position in a way that was stopping and blocking the agenda.

And we'd been able to accomplish some things since I'd been here. Things that were stalled out in the last session of the Congress. And so, I'm hopeful we'll continue to build on that record of accomplishment. And I think as people see you get things done in the Senate, that all those campaign arguments tend to go by the wayside.

NOVAK: Senator Thune, you were a member of the House before came to the Senate. What's the difference between the House and the Senate? Is there a lot of difference.

THUNE: Well, clearly, these are very different institutions in terms of their culture, the rules. The Senate is -- or the House is very structured, it has rules that allow for how things are brought to the floor. It's much more I guess you could call it, efficient if you want to say that. But the Senate is more deliberative. And they have a different set of rules. The filibuster makes it possible for one person literally to shut the Senate down. I think that's probably the biggest difference, is the way in which we conduct our business. The process by which legislation moves. And sometimes that's frustrating to those of us who have come from the House. We like that structure, and used to that system of getting things done.

NOVAK: Do you think, as a senator, do you think you're catered to more in the culture of Washington, than you were as one of 435 House members?

THUNE: I think just the numerical advantage you have being one of the 100, as opposed to one of the 435 probably gives you perhaps a bigger platform from which to operate. I don't know that you're catered to any differently, but clearly these are two institutions that do operate in different ways. I think the public sees them as different. The House is the people's House, elected every two years, based on population. The Senate, of course, being every six years and each state having equal representation. So, I don't know that in Washington it's treated differently, I think the public observes them and notices that they are very different in the way that they function.

NOVAK: Senator, when I first came here almost 50 years ago, the big complaint by the public was that you couldn't tell the difference between the two parties. Well, nobody makes that complaint now. You can tell the difference. The complaint now is why are you people so partisan? Why can't you sit down and get along? Do your constituents in South Dakota say that? Do you think that's the problem, the partisanship?

THUNE: I think most people wanted to see their elected leader solve problems. And they want see you work together to do that. At the same time, there are deep differences in this country, and deep differences ere in the Senate and in the House over how best to address those problems, and that's part of the political process. Has it become more pronounced in the more recent years, possibly. Maybe because the margins are so narrow in both the House and the Senate. But I do think that there are very different views of how to solve problems, how to lead this country. And those conflicts, if you want to call that, play everyday in the Senate and the House.

NOVAK: Senator Thune, you were in a very, very close race for the Senate in 2002. You were defeated, came back, and you beat the Democratic leader. Did the -- the fact that you lost that race, and sat out for two years, has it changed the way you look at politics? Are you a different kind of senator do you think now, than if you had come in the first time?

THUNE: That's a good question, Bob. You know, I have thought about having been out of office, having lost a close election in the lessons that you learn. I do think it makes you less conscience perhaps of wanting to maintain popularity in that sort of thing. In the House, I had -- you know, I won by large margins when I was in the House. But when you lose a close race, and you come back and you run another one, and you run it because you believe that you have an opportunity to make a difference and have an impact, I think you become less concerned about necessarily what the public opinion polls say. And you just want to get here and get things done. And that's really been I think probably maybe one of the lessons I took out of losing the race, and being out of the process for a while. It's more about what you accomplish when you're here, rather than necessarily sometimes what the public opinion polls say.

NOVAK: And now the big question for Senator John Thune, Republican of South Carolina. Senator, you served three terms in the House, and you were a term limiter. You said you would only serve three terms.

Are you also a term limiter for your term in the Senate? Do you think that's a good idea.

THUNE: I didn't make that kind a commitment when I ran for the Senate this time. I do believe that it's -- I believe in the concept of a citizen legislator. I don't necessarily subscribe to this notion that people ought to make a career or life out of being in politics. I don't think I'll -- I certainly won't do that, but I did not make any specific commitments with respect to how much time I might serve. NOVAK: Senator John Thune, thank you very much.

THUNE: Nice to be with you, Bob.

NOVAK: And thank you for being in "The Novak Zone."

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VERJEE: You can catch more of Bob Novak tonight on the "CAPITAL GANG" at 7:00 p.m. Eastern. That's it for "CNN LIVE SATURDAY." We'll be back with a look at the headlines.

But first on this edition of tips from the top, how best-selling author Jack Canfield serves up success.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It took a while for publishers to want what Jack Canfield was trying to serve. But the author and co-creator of the best selling "Chicken Soup for the Soul Series" finally tasted success.

JACK CANFIELD, AUTHOR: We were turned down by 144 publishers. If we would have quit after the first one, we never would have never made it. If we'd after the 100th rejection we never would have made it. If you have a dream, don't stop. Keep going. Keep learning. Keep practicing until you get there.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sixty best selling books later, Canfield is hoping readers will find their own recipe for success in his new book.

CANFIELD: I think reading is critical to success because if you don't read you don't learn new information. The more books you read, the greater probability you'll find something that will change your life.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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