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CNN Live Saturday
Report Clears Top Officials in Abu Ghraib Prison Abuses; Novak Zone Looks at Former Presidential Yacht
Aired April 23, 2005 - 14:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It is 2:00 on the east coast, 11:00 out west. Welcome to CNN LIVE SATURDAY. I'm Fredricka Whitfield at CNN's global headquarters in Atlanta. Ahead this hour, what do Evel Knievel Armand Hammer and Larry Flynt have in common? We were surprised. You just might be too.
A tale of two brothers. Governor Jeb Bush and Reverend Georg Ratzinger at the Vatican. Alessio Vinci reports from Rome on the preparations for a new pope.
And back in the United States in Chesapeake Bay, fishermen try to hold on to a way of life. Those stories and more, but first the headlines.
U.S. troops in Iraq arrested six people today in connection with the attack on a commercial helicopter. An Iraqi citizen tipped the Americans to the suspects. The helicopter crash was videotaped by insurgents. Eleven people in all were killed, including six Americans.
An Iraqi civilian was killed and three task force soldiers were hurt today when a car bomb exploded on this busy Baghdad road. The attack is one of several in the capital today. A separate road side blast killed nine Iraqi soldiers as their convoy passed on the outskirts of the city.
Family and friends gathered today for a funeral service for 13- year old Florida teen Sarah Michelle Lunde. Police say a convicted sex offender who once dated the girl's mother told them he choked the child. Sarah's body was found in a pond near her home. Florida is now considering a bill mandating longer prison sentences for sex offenders.
Senior Pentagon officials are saying a report clears top army commanders of any wrongdoing in connection with the abuse scandal at Abu Ghraib prison. The abuses of Iraqi prisoners along with smiling U.S. troops were depicted in photographs which surfaced in the fall of 2003. Another report on the problem found 44 instances of abuse at the prison near Baghdad saying some of the incidents amounted to torture. The report clears Lieutenant General Ricardo Sanchez of allegations of any leadership wrongdoing. Sanchez was commander of U.S. forces in Iraq when the abuse occurred.
But the new report was critical of Sanchez, saying he wasn't culpable but was responsible for the things that happened. The top intelligence officer in Iraq Major General Barbara Fast was also cleared by the inspector general's report. So were Sanchez's top deputy and his top legal adviser at the military. As a report or rather, as a result of the report, Sanchez will not face any punishment.
Reaction from the White House now to the report. A spokesman says the U.S. did not tolerate wrongdoing when it comes to detainees. When we find it, we act to hold those responsible to account and take steps to prevent it from happening again.
For more on the report clearing General Sanchez and other officers of wrongdoing in the abuse scandal and the arrests in Thursday's helicopter crash, let's go live to Kathleen Koch at the Pentagon. Kathleen?
KATHLEEN KOCH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think Fredricka, what everyone is asking now is what happens next? What happens to Sanchez, to his deputies who were cleared? And let's start with Lieutenant General Carlos Sanchez. Right now he is commander of the Army's 5th Corps which is based in Germany and he's ending the end of his tenure there. Now he has as of this new report by the Army's inspector general, he's been cleared of charges, though, no one right now can really say whether or not he's been so tainted by the Abu Ghraib scandal that he will not get the fourth star that he was hoping to receive in his military career.
The "Washington Post" is reporting that one senior official who will be reprimanded is Brigadier General Janis Karpinski. If you will recall, she was a commander of the 800th Military Police brigade and also specifically, that brigade based in Maryland, the 372nd Military Police Company, where some six soldiers have been convicted and two others are awaiting courts martial. According to the "Washington Post" she'll receive an administrative reprimand for dereliction of duty as a result of this investigation.
Now, General Karpinski is still in the Army reserves. She's currently in inactive status though, she does drill once a month. Her attorney says that this formal reprimand, if it does indeed occur, would more or less freeze her military career where it is right now. She could advance no further. She would still get her benefits, but basically she would have topped out. Her attorney does -- if this happens, she's going to fight it and she's going to appeal to what is called the board of corrections of military records because he insists that she believes she is not the only officer responsible here.
WHITFIELD: And so, Kathleen, a formal reprimand for Karpinski, none for Lieutenant General Sanchez. Does this mean that case is closed?
KOCH: It does not because there are many in Congress who don't believe that these reports, some now 11 that the U.S. military has conducted, that they've really gotten to the bottom of things. So certainly at least Senator John Warner, who was chairman of the Senate Arms Services Committee is promising a hearing looking at these many investigations and whether they have actually gotten really to the root of who was responsible. WHITFIELD: And when the report says that Sanchez is not culpable but in some respects responsible, what does that mean exactly?
KOCH: Well, that's not clear. Obviously if he's not getting any punishment, they don't believe that the degree of responsibility is something that does merit any punishment. Perhaps again, some -- we haven't seen the report. It hasn't been publicly released but perhaps they found some dereliction but not any out and out orders to commit these abuses.
WHITFIELD: So still unanswered even since this report or portions of this report are being released is who may have directed the OK or guidance on torturing some of these detainees?
KOCH: Certainly and the U.S. military would have you believe, again, that it was primarily these bad apples, these members -- these lower-level soldiers who made these choices on their own. But their attorney's certainly going to be speaking up in the days and weeks to come as well the attorney for Brigadier General Janis Karpinski saying that simply is not the case.
WHITFIELD: All right. Kathleen Koch, thanks so much.
Well, Army Colonel David Bishop joins us from Baghdad in a moment it talk about those arrests and the investigation into the civilian helicopter crash. We're talking about the arrest of six believed terrorists involving that helicopter crash earlier this week.
Well, newly elected Pope Benedict XVI will celebrate his inauguration tomorrow at the Vatican. At least a half million people are expected to crowd St. Peter's Square to witness the outdoor event. Televisions are being mounted and attention paid to increase security and transportation needs.
Pope Benedict's older brother is among thousands of Germans in Rome planning to attend tomorrow's inauguration. The Reverend George Ratzinger is a priest serving in the pope's home town of Regenceburg (ph). The two are said to maintain pretty close ties.
Also today, thousands of journalists gathered at the Vatican for the pope's first public audience since being elected Tuesday. CNN's Rome bureau chief Alessio Vinci was there.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ALESSIO VINCI, CNN ROME BUREAU CHIEF (voice-over): There was a history of Germans loving Italy and now that a new pope is a German, there is one more reason to come.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm pretty actually excited. I was here for Easter as well, so it was the last moment to see the former pope when he gave his blessing. It was a very moving moment and now it's good to come again with the sunshine and welcome the new pope.
VINCI: By the tens of thousands, some faithful, some just tourists are descending on Rome where Benedict XVI will be inaugurated on Sunday during a ceremony in St. Peter's Square. Sunday's mass will mark the final act of papal transition between Pope John Paul II and Pope Benedict XVI. Everything is ready. Security will be tight and for those who will not make it all the way to St. Peter's Square, they will have to watch the mass on these giant television screens.
Members of the media attended Pope Benedict's audience dedicated to the journalists who traveled far to report on the papal transition. He was greeted by cheers and enthusiastic applause, but the new pope looked shy and uneasy about the attention he was receiving. He did not take questions from journalists and read prepared remarks in four different languages.
POPE BENEDICT XVI: I know how hard you have worked away from your homes and families for long hours and in sometimes difficult conditions. I'm aware of this care and dedication with which you have accomplished your demanding task in my own name and especially on behalf of Catholics living far from Rome.
VINCI: Among those coming to Rome, the U.S. presidential delegation led by the president's brother Jeb Bush.
GOV. JEB BUSH, (R) FLORIDA: As a Catholic and as an American, this is really a chance of a lifetime and I'm so honored to be here.
VINCI: A sentiment shared by many waiting to witness the pope's first public mass. Alessio Vinci, CNN at the Vatican.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WHITFIELD: Straight ahead, more on Iraq. An Army colonel joins us to talk about the arrest today in the helicopter shoot down earlier in the week in Baghdad.
And the week in review in the Michael Jackson case. That's in our legal segment, later on this hour. But before that, a look at a beleaguered industry and its attempt to hold on to this way of life.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WHITFIELD: As we mentioned at the top of the hour, a recent surge in deadly violence continued in Iraq today. There have been several bombings across the country. The most violent left nine Iraqi soldiers dead. A roadside bomb went off as their convoy passed. Twenty other troops were hurt in that explosion. Also today, an American military convoy was bombed along the road to the Baghdad airport. Three task force soldiers were wounded and an Iraqi civilian killed.
And six people are in custody in connection with Thursday's crash of a civilian helicopter. Joining us from Camp Taji in Baghdad to talk about the arrests and other efforts to deal with insurgents, Army Colonel David Bishop. Thanks, colonel, for joining us.
COL. DAVID BISHOP, U.S. ARMY: Hi, it's good to be here.
WHITFIELD: So this civilian apparently led the task force Baghdad troops to a pick-up truck that was believed to have been involved in this helicopter shooting. Is this what it is taking, the cooperation from civilians, in order to help get to the root of the insurgency problem?
BISHOP: Absolutely, the only way we're going to solve this problem is if the Iraqi people step up and contribute. That's exactly what we're seeing on an increasing basis everyday and this is a perfect example.
WHITFIELD: An increasing basis, why? When you also have so many different efforts of intimidation, many civilians who have felt that they have been afraid to step forward. What's different now?
BISHOP: Well, I think the Iraqi citizen is, on one hand, he's emboldened by the fact that he sees an Iraqi security force that is growing daily and becoming more and more credible and professional. At the same time, he feels more and more confident as he sees the Iraqi government growing. On the other hand, he and she are becoming fed-up with all the violence. Let's face it, the insurgents and terrorists are killing many Iraqi innocent civilians and not just their intended targets. So I think all those factors -- all those factors combined are leading to this trend.
WHITFIELD: Are you starting to feel more comfortable and confident about the Iraqi forces, even though they seem to be, those in training, are also targets of the insurgency. So while you have a number of volunteers stepping forward growing, you also have a growing number of volunteers who are being killed.
BISHOP: It takes great courage. Make no bones about it. But the Iraqi security forces are getting better every day. They're very proud of what they're doing. And the Iraqi people show a great proud in their Iraqi soldiers and the Iraqi police. Today my brigade handed over two large neighborhoods of the Atamia (ph) district of Baghdad to an outstanding Army battalion and the people just love it and they work very well with them.
WHITFIELD: As you look at what appears to be a sudden increase of insurgency attacks, are you seeing any parallels to the types of insurgency attacks that are taking place and this continued sort of uncertainty about the new government?
BISHOP: Well, first of all I don't think -- I think any rise that we've seen in recent weeks does not indicate a long-term trend. I think that over time, we're still at norm or below in terms of the level of attacks. One of the trends that we've seen in recent week, does not indicate a long term trend. I think that over time, we're still at norm or below in terms of the level of attacks.
One of the trends that we've noticed is that Iraqi insurgent attacks on U.S. forces and Iraqi security forces are increasingly becoming more and more ineffective and unsuccessful. Although they are still scoring some lethal kills on their intended targets, they're becoming more and more difficult because Iraqi security forces are becoming better and better. WHITFIELD: And more ineffective because there is more of a calling card, a recognizable calling card for both the Iraqi forces and the U.S. forces to identify?
BISHOP: Yes. I mean, we're working well together with the Iraqi army and the Iraqi police and so it's just becoming very difficult for the insurgents to operate with impunity. A couple months ago, where we would find an Iraq IED buried six feet below the surface of the road, now we find them just laying on the side of the road because they don't have the same amount of time to do what they used to do and of course that's less effective. So that's the kind of trend we're seeing. They're under pressure.
WHITFIELD: All right. U.S. Army Colonel David Bishop, thanks so much for taking the time out to meet with us and be safe.
BISHOP: Thank you. Take care.
WHITFIELD: When we come back, an update with the latest on scandals surrounding a fast food restaurant and the charges that have now been filed in that case.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WHITFIELD: Well, here's some stories making news across America today. Police say they know who put it there. A finger or at least a finger part in a cup of chili. Well, apparently the woman who claimed she found the human finger in her Wendy's chili was actually arrested. Police are still trying to figure out whose finger it was and how the customer actually got it. San Francisco area Wendy's figures the finger incident cost them $2 million in lost sales. They're offering free Frosties today to lure customers back.
He's top in the NFL draft. The San Francisco 49ers chose Alex Smith today as their first round draft choice. The 6'4" quarterback led Utah to an unbeaten season as a junior. He boosted 21-1 record as a starter.
And a lucky lottery player is in for a life-change experience. Someone out there holds the ticket to the $205 million mega-millions grand price. The ticket was purchased in Michigan. Here are the winning numbers, just in case you were in Michigan and you have a ticket, 23-25-43-46-49 and mega ball 26. Of course, we don't know the winner yet.
An annual survey of the Chesapeake Bay suggests the blue crab population is beginning to recover after years of decline. That's the good news. The bad news is that crabbing as a way of life is in peril. Here is CNN's Tom Foreman and the crabbers who are feeling the pinch.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Out on the Chesapeake Bay, generations of crabbers have ridden the dawn. ART PHILLIPS: I worked for my father, too.
FOREMAN: Like Art Phillips and his son Barry, pulling in the prized blue crabs. But this year, the work comes with a great worry.
ART PHILLIPS, CRABBER: We just don't want to see the business go out. It's going to affect everybody from the grocery store to everything.
FOREMAN: The problem is not off, but on shore in the plants where crabs are steamed, the meat packed out and packed for sale, almost entirely by foreign guest workers. A limited number of these workers are allowed into the U.S. on a seasonal basis and normally Robin Hall's plant would be full of them. This year, however, most were scooped up by richer industries, construction, landscaping before the crab harvest began.
ROBIN HALL, CRAB PLANT OWNER: We're hanging on by our fingernails, is what I like to say. And just the least little thing, we're gone to.
FOREMAN: Locals used to do this tedious work, but young Americans everywhere are fleeing rural communities for better jobs in the cities.
LAURA JOHNSON, FORMER CRAB PICKER: The homes down here are expensive. They just can't afford it on picking crab money. Just can't.
FOREMAN: So for $10 an hour over the past 10 years, foreign workers have come in for the crab season. "We come to do the jobs," Martin Medina says, "that people here don't want to do." A hundred miles away in Washington, an emergency measure to let more foreign workers in is being considered.
SEN. BARBARA MIKULSKI (D) MARYLAND: This amendment is desperately needed by small and seasonal business throughout the United States.
FOREMAN: Opponents however argue --
STEVEN CAMEROTA, CENTER FOR IMMIGRATION STUDIES: There's no such as a job Americans won't do, but there certainly are jobs that Americans won't do if the pay is very low, the benefits are virtually nonexistent and the working conditions are very poor.
FOREMAN: But people out here say it's just not that simple. If they paid enough money to bring enough Americans in to do all of this work, the cost of their crab meat would go through the roof. Ninety percent of the crab consumed in the U.S. is already from foreign waters, they say. And any increase in cost here will wipe out the jobs that remain for foreigners and Americans, too.
PHILLIPS: I guess trying to hold on to what used to be. I guess there is nothing wrong with that, is there?
FOREMAN: So the crabbers themselves caught and many are afraid that this summer they will dry their traps for the last time. Tom Foreman, CNN, Fishing Creek, Maryland.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WHITFIELD: Here's something else to ponder this weekend. Can you think of any reason for police to handcuff an unarmed five-year old girl at school? Well, they did. See what you think. That story straight ahead.
Also a week of twist and turns in the Michael Jackson trial. Our legal roundtable weighs in on both of those cases.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(WEATHER REPORT)
WHITFIELD: Bottom of the hour and our top story the U.S. Military arrests six men in connection with Thursday's crash of a commercial helicopter. U.S. Troops made the arrest today after getting civilian tips. Ten people were killed in the crash. A crash survivor was shot dead by insurgents.
There has been more insurgent violence in Iraq today. An American soldier died when his convoy was hit by a roadside bomb. At least a dozen people have been killed by bombings and shootings around the country today and the U.S. military says, another top Iraqi official was assassinated.
And the crowds are expected to return to St. Peter's Square Sunday, preparations for the formal inauguration of Pope Benedict XVI are already under way. Guests will include heads of state and other dignitaries. Florida Governor Jeb Bush is heading the U.S. delegation to that event.
A Florida attorney wonders if it was necessary to snap handcuffs on an unruly 5-year-old girl in Florida? Last month police were called after the child appeared to be out of control in the classroom. The incident was recorded on videotape.
More from CNN's Tony Harris.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TONY HARRIS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The camera was rolling as part of a self-improvement exercise for preschool children in St. Petersburg, Florida. You see a 5-year-old girl become disruptive.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We're not touching you. You're -- No, ma'am. We're not touching you, you don't touch me.
HARRIS: First, throwing objects on the floor and resisting the efforts of a teacher and assistant principal to calm her down.
Eventually, the girl's mother is called, but she's unable to come to the school.
The girl begins hitting the assistant principal, and the police are called.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No! No!
(voice-over): The video was stopped soon after the girl's hands are fastened behind her.
Now no charges have been filed against the 5-year-old, and she was released to her mother. But a lawyer for the girl's parents say that police went too far, and that he plans unspecified legal actions against them. Police officials have launched an internal investigation.
Tony Harris.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WHITFIELD: Well, here's a question for you. Is there a lawsuit waiting to happen? Something tells me the answer just might be yes.
Well, let's find out in our legal segment today, and ask Avery Friedman and Richard Herman. Hi to both of you guys.
RICHARD HERMAN, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Welcome back, Fred!
AVERY FRIEDMAN, CIVIL RIGHTS ATTORNEY: Welcome back, Fredricka? Good to have you back. We missed you.
WHITFIELD: Well, I missed you guy, too. It's good to be back. Well, lets talk about this case of the unruly 5-year-old, and Richard, you have to wonder, is there a lawsuit just waiting to take place here?
HERMAN: Well, Fred, for roughly $200 in any state in the country, you can file a lawsuit. But that doesn't mean you're going to recover anything. I saw this video here, what choice did the authorities have? I mean, if they did nothing and she jumped on top of a desk and fell down and broke her arm, they would have been sued.
WHITFIELD: But handcuffs?
HERMAN: They didn't have a straitjacket there. If this girl hurt herself in her tantrum, she would have been -- they would have been sued for that. That would have been liability. Here, there's no lawsuit here.
WHITFIELD: Avery, how do you see it?
FRIEDMAN: I mean, are we watching the same video here? Let me tell you something, the Congress of the United States enacted the civil rights law in 1871. And I hope for the sake of Pinellas County Elementary School administrators that when there's a problem with a 5- year-old or a 4-year-old, who's white that they call three police.
HERMAN: Oh, please.
WHITFIELD: So you think race is a matter here? FRIEDMAN: And that's what this is. What's that?
WHITFIELD: You said race an issue here right away.
FRIEDMAN: Well, right away. Let me tell you something, I'm trying to understand why it takes elementary school administrators, public school administrates three police officers to somehow restrain a 5-year-old who is black. And by the way, if you look at video, she is sitting calmly at that table. By the time the police got there is no reason in the world -- in fact, you know what, when Pinellas County called the attorney general's office in Tallahassee, I'd like to have been a fly in the wall when they said, hey, get the cuffs off that little girl. Holy smokes. What a mess.
WHITFIELD: So, Richard, you've been shaking your head on that. You don't necessarily think that it's an issue. But perhaps excessive use of force or (INAUDIBLE) of this 5-year-old.
HERMAN: I don't think it's excessive. I think they had to get her under control.
WHITFIELD: What about time-out in the corner or something, though.
FRIEDMAN: Goodness sakes, this is a 5-year-old little girl, Richard.
HERMAN: If this little girl hurt herself. If she jumped on top of a desk and fell down, believe me that school district would have been sued big time. But you know...
FRIEDMAN: I don't, maybe it's time for the school administrators to get appropriate training to take care and deal with these kind of issues rather than bring in law enforcement. Are you serious! This was way out of line.
HERMAN: Avery -- Avery, the little girl was out of control. Obviously, she has some major emotional problems. And you know...
FRIEDMAN: yes?
HERMAN: ... if the authorities in Florida, either federal or state want to bring a real action, how about the accomplices to the Couey family who withheld evidence from the police. How about going after them?
FRIEDMAN: You shifted gears. Lets deal with -- lets deal with the 5-year-old who was black and surrounded by government public administrators and government law enforcement who are all required, what five, six, seven of them. It's way out of line, Richard. Way out of line.
WHITFIELD: Well, likely a suit will be filed. We don't know what'll happen from there.
HERMAN: Zero. WHITFIELD: But let's now move to the West Coast where we know the case is already in court involving Michael Jackson. And Richard, you have to wonder is the prosecution score anything points so far? They've had a number of different kinds of witnesses, but is anything sticking at this point?
HERMAN: You know, Fred, all these recent witnesses we've seen come off of this 1108 evidence, as prior bad acts evidence. And every one of these witnesses are tainted. Every one of these former disgruntled employees who tried to sue Michael Jackson for wrongful termination and whom Michael Jackson counter-sued.
WHITFIELD: So, how harmful is it to the case?
HERMAN: I think it's zero harmful. I think they've proven nothing. With one week ago I think this prosecution is an absolute disgrace. More importantly, the accuser -- remember the accuser, because that's what this case is all about, the young accuser.
WHITFIELD: And we did hear from the accuser's mother and her credibility certainly has been questioned. Avery, how harmful is that? She took the stand. She's been cross-examined and she showed no signs of intimidation whatsoever. In fact, she was quite kurt a few times in that courtroom.
FRIEDMAN: Well, you're exactly right, Fredricka. She was on the stand for five days. And while she wandered and rambled and wasn't the best witness in the world, there were some fairly solid pieces of evidence that got in here. And you know, it's interest, Richard's observation about, well, these individuals have been discredited. You know what, the prosecution is expected to finish this week. And you know what, the defense is thinking of putting on people like Elizabeth Taylor and Kobe Bryant. Well, these are certainly people that have never had problems with sex issues or alcohol or drugs. Holy smokes. This whole thing is a circus.
WHITFIELD: Is it? And so what will it mean that some of these high-profile celebrity names, these folks just might appear? I mean, you wonder if any important information will be extrapolated from their testimony, because really people just might be so amazed at the fact they got these celebrities in the room they'll forget about what they're saying?
FRIEDMAN: It's star power. You're right, it's star power. What they're doing is they're trying to bring in people. Everyone will be star-struck with Elizabeth Taylor or Kobe Bryant or people like that. And frankly, I think it's of very, very little value. Richard does have one thing right on that in this case, and that is, the focus has to be on the accuser and what went on. And we also have similar acts introduced into evidence. So, I think the defense frankly is going to take off in a star gazing side show.
HERMAN: Hey, Fred, I have -- I have more...
WHITFIELD: Richard. HERMAN: Fred, I have more than one thing right in this case. But let me tell you, the young accuser's mother, she opened her testimony by advising the jury that she's going take the fifth for welfare fraud. Then she admitted on the stand that she committed perjury and fraud in the J.C. Penney case for money for her children. I mean, come on, the jury wouldn't look in her eyes. They wouldn't look in her eyes. And this is the last week for the prosecution. This is an absolute disgrace.
WHITFIELD: So all of that aside, then, Richard, as the defense tries to figure out where it's going, do you see any chance that M.J. might actually take the stand and testify on his own behalf.
HERMAN: Well, unless M.J. gives Tom Mesereau cases and cases of Jesus Juice there's no way M.J. can get on this witness stand. You cannot control him. You're going to open him up to a series of questions that don't need to be answered by him in this case. The burden of proof is on the prosecution here. If Michael gets on the stand, who knows what's going to happen. He's a loose cannon and that could do him in.
WHITFIELD: And Avery, real quick, that means you don't think M.J. will be on the stand either?
FRIEDMAN: Well, actually, that is the second thing Richard did get right. I don't think we are going to see Michael Jackson get on the stand. He's out of control. He subjects himself to all the kind of questions that prosecution wanted to put in. We're not going to see it, Fredricka.
WHITFIELD: Avery Friedman, Richard Herman, thanks so much gentleman. Always good to see you.
FRIEDMAN: Nice to see you.
HERMAN: Fred, give my best to little John.
WHITFIELD: I will indeed.
HERMAN: Take care.
WHITFIELD: Thank you.
HERMAN: Bye.
WHITFIELD: Rafik Hariri's son speaks out for the first time. He vows to bring his father's killer's to justice. Our exclusive interview coming up next.
Plus, it's a yacht with quite a bit of history from patrolling the river for alcohol smugglers to entertaining Washington's elite? We'll give you history straight ahead on the "Novak Zone."
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WHITFIELD: This just in, we're just getting word of a deadly attack on a journalist in Iraq. The Associated Press reports that one of its television cameraman has been killed in crossfire in Mosul. We'll have more details as they become available.
Syria plans to complete it's troop withdraw from Lebanon in the next couple days beating next Saturday's deadline. That word today from a Syrian security source. The United Nations is sending two teams to Lebanon on Monday to verify the pullback.
And those teams will also lay the ground work for U.N. Commission that's investigating the murder of Rafik Hariri. Syria's withdraw was triggered by weeks of massive protest following Hariri's assassination. Now, Hariri's son has inherited the political mantle of his father, and vows to bring the assassins to justice.
In his first TV interview since entering the political arena, Saad Hariri spoke exclusively -- exclusively rather with CNN's Brent Sadler. Here is part of what he had to say.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BRENT SADLER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Do you intend to run in the upcoming elections?
SAAD HARIRI, SON OF FMR. PRIME MINISTER: I do intend. I do intend. And I think I do intend to run. I do intend to prove myself. I do intend to work hard. I do intend to achieve my father's goals.
SADLER: Do you think that the changes that have taken place that will lead to a change that Syria can live with?
HARIRI: I think the Lebanese people have spoken. I think each one that came down on the 14th of March to the Martyrs' Square, to where my late father is buried is a clear word of freedom. That the Lebanese show the world what they wanted. And I believe Syria heard that word, and is acting up on that.
SADLER: Recently, it was reported you had to leave the country because it was unsafe for you to be here.
HARIRI: My father was (INAUDIBLE), so I would consider it not safe. I understand the risks and my family understands the risk and this is something that we have to deal with. But no risk will let us not continue the legacy of my father.
SADLER: Do you intend to travel the world, like your father did, meeting world leaders in the hope that you can help this country progress?
HARIRI: I want to use every single relationship my father had. President Chirac has been a great friend of my father. He was really amazing with the family. And Saudi Arabia has done amazing things for Lebanon. So, I am going to ask the help of all those wise men to help Lebanon, and to help me to achieve or to continue what my father started.
SADLER: Who do you think assassinated your father? HARIRI: I don't know. I don't know. But whoever killed him, we will not stop until we find him.
SADLER: On the day that he was buried, you and other brothers carried his coffin to the Muhammad Ali Mean Mosque (ph), what if anything was going through your mind.
HARIRI: He was a great man. My father's death has united the Lebanese, and we have to make sure this unity stays.
SADLER: Is it your ambition to try to become prime minister one day, follow exactly in your father's footsteps?
HARIRI: I think that what my father wanted was in a (INAUDIBLE) a position. He wanted to change. He wanted to do something for Lebanon. And if I can do it without being a prime minister or with being a prime minister that is something that time will tell.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WHITFIELD: Once again, those comments from the son of Lebanon's assassinated prime minister. From an exclusive interview from CNN's Brent Sadler.
A yacht used by Washington's elite, was once used to enforce prohibition. The history of the U.S.S. Sequoia, straight ahead on the "Novak Zone."
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WHITFIELD: It's a floating piece of Americana. The U.S.S. Sequoia is the former presidential yacht, and sight of numerous note worthy events. CNN's Robert Novak was invited board this week for the "Novak Zone."
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ROBERT NOVAK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Welcome to the "Novak Zone."
We're aboard the presidential yacht, USS Sequoia, anchored on the Potomac River in Washington D.C. We're in the main saloon of the Sequoia, which is a national historic landmark by act of Congress.
We're talking to Gary Silversmith, the owner of the Sequoia.
Mr. Silversmith, the Sequoia before it was a presidential yacht was something else. Tell us a little about it's history.
GARY SILVERSMITH, SEQUOIA PRES. YACHT GROUP: The government purchased the Sequoia to enforce prohibition. And they put the Sequoia on the Potomac River and on other bodies of river. And the rum runners drink prohibition thought that it would be a rich yachtsman. They would come to sell the liquor, and the feds would jump off and arrest them. At time, Hubert Hoover was secretary of commerce under Harding. And he would leave the Department of Commerce Building in Washington, which today is called the Hubert Hoover building. And he would go to the embassies in Washington and drink, because they were exempt from prohibition. When Hoover became president, he said we don't need this Sequoia enforced prohibition. We'll use it as the presidential yacht.
NOVAK: How do you end up as the owner of this -- the presidential yacht?
SILVERSMITH: Almost six years ago, I drove down to Norfolk, Virginia, and met with the shipyard that owned her. And the shipyard was undergoing a corporate reorganization. And I knew that they were going to sell this special national historic landmark and I negotiated to buy it.
NOVAK: But it was sold originally by the government when Jimmy Carter was president. How did that come to pass?
SILVERSMITH: Jimmy Carter of course the Georgia peanut farmer decided to discard the trappings of presidency, opted to sell the Sequoia. And the government held sealed bit sale. And there were a number of people who endeavored to buy the Sequoia, three of whom who were unsuccessful bidders, were Armand Hammer and Evel Knievel and Larry Flint.
NOVAK: What kind of use is it put to right now, Gary.
SILVERSMITH: She's used by many dignitaries, just last might, for example, Speaker HAYNES:, Governor Romney, Senator Dole and other dignitaries used her. The night before about 20 ambassadors. So, she's used by a lot of the Washington elite and a lot of the non- elite. For example, we take out Walt Reed amputees on a number of cruises. We sponsor a sea scout troop. So, she's put to good use.
NOVAK: I understand this is the first handicap access boat because of President Roosevelt?
SILVERSMITH: We're told that -- that they put an elevator in here for Roosevelt which brought him in from the main salon down below to the bedrooms, and the crew members had to carry him top-side, which he certainly disliked. And when Lyndon Johnson came aboard, he said that the Sequoia did not need an elevator, it needed a bar. So, today we have a very fine bar and unfortunately we do not have an elevator.
NOVAK: There's a lot of history on this boat, Mr. Silversmith. President Roosevelt and his supreme-commander in Europe, General Eisenhower met here. What did they talk about?
SILVERSMITH: Well, they planned European strategy and D-Day. So there's a great connection with the Sequoia and America's military efforts, including planning World War II. Truman also worked on board contemplating dropping the nuclear bomb. In 1946, Truman hosted the first nuclear arms control conference. Later, Lyndon Johnson decided to escalate the war in Vietnam from the Sequoia, when riding with the commandant of the Marine Corps. And of course, Nixon and Kissinger, played to withdraw from Vietnam on the Sequoia.
NOVAK: You say they planned dropping the atom bomb and Emperor Hirohito, was a guest on this boat.
SILVERSMITH: Yes.
NOVAK: That's an irony, isn't it.
SILVERSMITH: There is certainly an irony. About 30 years after he decided to drop the bomb, after Hirohito was a guest of President Gerald Ford. And he rode on the Sequoia. And in fact, picture were published throughout Japan of Emperor Hirohito and his wife sailing on the Sequoia.
NOVAK: Now, the table right be hind me here in the salon was used by Harry Truman for poker games. I see the little card said, he occasionally played poker. He played poker all the time. Has -- did other presidents use this boat for amusement and fun and games?
SILVERSMITH: Very much so. In fact, the Sequoia was probably used more for unofficial visits than official visits. Some of the presidents used it for official purposes such as lobbying. Lyndon Johnson lobbied, for example, for all of the civil rights legislation on board. But most of presidents ranging from Harry Truman playing poker, to Richard Nixon escaping the woes of Watergate, to John F. Kennedy, they all enjoyed the Sequoia for their purposes uses.
NOVAK: Now, it was used a lot in the Nixon administration. I was a privilege to be a guest of secretary of Defense Mel Laird, Melvin Laird during the Nixon administration. But Nixon himself used it more than any other president, didn't he.
SILVERSMITH: That's correct. According to Captain Combs (ph) who took Nixon out. He said that Nixon used the Sequoia over a hundred times. And he did a number of important events on board, both official and unofficial. From an official stand point, he hosted Brezhnev and the first Soviet/American nuclear arms control conference, the start of the end of the Cold War. He also reportedly decided to resign on the Sequoia. But he -- he felt the White House, we're told, were bugged during Watergate. And he wanted to go out on the Sequoia which he felt was safe for him. So, he used it over a hundred times usually with just his family.
NOVAK: And now the big question for Gary Silversmith, owner of the presidential yacht Sequoia. Mr. Silversmith, if President Bush were to call you this morning and ask you, gee, I would really like to use the yacht for some visitors to the White House. What would you say and how soon could you get ready for us?
SILVERSMITH: I would say, what time? Give us five minutes. I would welcome him at any time and I would welcome any president on the Sequoia.
NOVAK: Has he used to yet?
SILVERSMITH: Unfortunately no.
NOVAK: Gary Silversmith, thank you very much.
SILVERSMITH: It's a pleasure.
NOVAK: And thank you for being in the "Novak Zone."
(END VIDEOTAPE)
And you can catch more of Bob Novak on the "CAPITAL GANG." Tonight's focus -- troubles mount for the House Majority Leader Tom DeLay.
That's tonight at 7:00 Eastern right here on CNN.
Still much more ahead on CNN SATURDAY.
At the top of the hour it's "NEXT@CNN."
At 4:00 CNN LIVE SATURDAY, new technology that will help prevent friendly fire incidents. We'll talk to a retired Lieutenant Colonel on the lastest tracking system.
And at 5:00 "PEOPLE IN THE NEWS" profiling Christie Alley, Madonna, and Nicole Kidman.
Back with headlines right after this.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired April 23, 2005 - 14:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It is 2:00 on the east coast, 11:00 out west. Welcome to CNN LIVE SATURDAY. I'm Fredricka Whitfield at CNN's global headquarters in Atlanta. Ahead this hour, what do Evel Knievel Armand Hammer and Larry Flynt have in common? We were surprised. You just might be too.
A tale of two brothers. Governor Jeb Bush and Reverend Georg Ratzinger at the Vatican. Alessio Vinci reports from Rome on the preparations for a new pope.
And back in the United States in Chesapeake Bay, fishermen try to hold on to a way of life. Those stories and more, but first the headlines.
U.S. troops in Iraq arrested six people today in connection with the attack on a commercial helicopter. An Iraqi citizen tipped the Americans to the suspects. The helicopter crash was videotaped by insurgents. Eleven people in all were killed, including six Americans.
An Iraqi civilian was killed and three task force soldiers were hurt today when a car bomb exploded on this busy Baghdad road. The attack is one of several in the capital today. A separate road side blast killed nine Iraqi soldiers as their convoy passed on the outskirts of the city.
Family and friends gathered today for a funeral service for 13- year old Florida teen Sarah Michelle Lunde. Police say a convicted sex offender who once dated the girl's mother told them he choked the child. Sarah's body was found in a pond near her home. Florida is now considering a bill mandating longer prison sentences for sex offenders.
Senior Pentagon officials are saying a report clears top army commanders of any wrongdoing in connection with the abuse scandal at Abu Ghraib prison. The abuses of Iraqi prisoners along with smiling U.S. troops were depicted in photographs which surfaced in the fall of 2003. Another report on the problem found 44 instances of abuse at the prison near Baghdad saying some of the incidents amounted to torture. The report clears Lieutenant General Ricardo Sanchez of allegations of any leadership wrongdoing. Sanchez was commander of U.S. forces in Iraq when the abuse occurred.
But the new report was critical of Sanchez, saying he wasn't culpable but was responsible for the things that happened. The top intelligence officer in Iraq Major General Barbara Fast was also cleared by the inspector general's report. So were Sanchez's top deputy and his top legal adviser at the military. As a report or rather, as a result of the report, Sanchez will not face any punishment.
Reaction from the White House now to the report. A spokesman says the U.S. did not tolerate wrongdoing when it comes to detainees. When we find it, we act to hold those responsible to account and take steps to prevent it from happening again.
For more on the report clearing General Sanchez and other officers of wrongdoing in the abuse scandal and the arrests in Thursday's helicopter crash, let's go live to Kathleen Koch at the Pentagon. Kathleen?
KATHLEEN KOCH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think Fredricka, what everyone is asking now is what happens next? What happens to Sanchez, to his deputies who were cleared? And let's start with Lieutenant General Carlos Sanchez. Right now he is commander of the Army's 5th Corps which is based in Germany and he's ending the end of his tenure there. Now he has as of this new report by the Army's inspector general, he's been cleared of charges, though, no one right now can really say whether or not he's been so tainted by the Abu Ghraib scandal that he will not get the fourth star that he was hoping to receive in his military career.
The "Washington Post" is reporting that one senior official who will be reprimanded is Brigadier General Janis Karpinski. If you will recall, she was a commander of the 800th Military Police brigade and also specifically, that brigade based in Maryland, the 372nd Military Police Company, where some six soldiers have been convicted and two others are awaiting courts martial. According to the "Washington Post" she'll receive an administrative reprimand for dereliction of duty as a result of this investigation.
Now, General Karpinski is still in the Army reserves. She's currently in inactive status though, she does drill once a month. Her attorney says that this formal reprimand, if it does indeed occur, would more or less freeze her military career where it is right now. She could advance no further. She would still get her benefits, but basically she would have topped out. Her attorney does -- if this happens, she's going to fight it and she's going to appeal to what is called the board of corrections of military records because he insists that she believes she is not the only officer responsible here.
WHITFIELD: And so, Kathleen, a formal reprimand for Karpinski, none for Lieutenant General Sanchez. Does this mean that case is closed?
KOCH: It does not because there are many in Congress who don't believe that these reports, some now 11 that the U.S. military has conducted, that they've really gotten to the bottom of things. So certainly at least Senator John Warner, who was chairman of the Senate Arms Services Committee is promising a hearing looking at these many investigations and whether they have actually gotten really to the root of who was responsible. WHITFIELD: And when the report says that Sanchez is not culpable but in some respects responsible, what does that mean exactly?
KOCH: Well, that's not clear. Obviously if he's not getting any punishment, they don't believe that the degree of responsibility is something that does merit any punishment. Perhaps again, some -- we haven't seen the report. It hasn't been publicly released but perhaps they found some dereliction but not any out and out orders to commit these abuses.
WHITFIELD: So still unanswered even since this report or portions of this report are being released is who may have directed the OK or guidance on torturing some of these detainees?
KOCH: Certainly and the U.S. military would have you believe, again, that it was primarily these bad apples, these members -- these lower-level soldiers who made these choices on their own. But their attorney's certainly going to be speaking up in the days and weeks to come as well the attorney for Brigadier General Janis Karpinski saying that simply is not the case.
WHITFIELD: All right. Kathleen Koch, thanks so much.
Well, Army Colonel David Bishop joins us from Baghdad in a moment it talk about those arrests and the investigation into the civilian helicopter crash. We're talking about the arrest of six believed terrorists involving that helicopter crash earlier this week.
Well, newly elected Pope Benedict XVI will celebrate his inauguration tomorrow at the Vatican. At least a half million people are expected to crowd St. Peter's Square to witness the outdoor event. Televisions are being mounted and attention paid to increase security and transportation needs.
Pope Benedict's older brother is among thousands of Germans in Rome planning to attend tomorrow's inauguration. The Reverend George Ratzinger is a priest serving in the pope's home town of Regenceburg (ph). The two are said to maintain pretty close ties.
Also today, thousands of journalists gathered at the Vatican for the pope's first public audience since being elected Tuesday. CNN's Rome bureau chief Alessio Vinci was there.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ALESSIO VINCI, CNN ROME BUREAU CHIEF (voice-over): There was a history of Germans loving Italy and now that a new pope is a German, there is one more reason to come.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm pretty actually excited. I was here for Easter as well, so it was the last moment to see the former pope when he gave his blessing. It was a very moving moment and now it's good to come again with the sunshine and welcome the new pope.
VINCI: By the tens of thousands, some faithful, some just tourists are descending on Rome where Benedict XVI will be inaugurated on Sunday during a ceremony in St. Peter's Square. Sunday's mass will mark the final act of papal transition between Pope John Paul II and Pope Benedict XVI. Everything is ready. Security will be tight and for those who will not make it all the way to St. Peter's Square, they will have to watch the mass on these giant television screens.
Members of the media attended Pope Benedict's audience dedicated to the journalists who traveled far to report on the papal transition. He was greeted by cheers and enthusiastic applause, but the new pope looked shy and uneasy about the attention he was receiving. He did not take questions from journalists and read prepared remarks in four different languages.
POPE BENEDICT XVI: I know how hard you have worked away from your homes and families for long hours and in sometimes difficult conditions. I'm aware of this care and dedication with which you have accomplished your demanding task in my own name and especially on behalf of Catholics living far from Rome.
VINCI: Among those coming to Rome, the U.S. presidential delegation led by the president's brother Jeb Bush.
GOV. JEB BUSH, (R) FLORIDA: As a Catholic and as an American, this is really a chance of a lifetime and I'm so honored to be here.
VINCI: A sentiment shared by many waiting to witness the pope's first public mass. Alessio Vinci, CNN at the Vatican.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WHITFIELD: Straight ahead, more on Iraq. An Army colonel joins us to talk about the arrest today in the helicopter shoot down earlier in the week in Baghdad.
And the week in review in the Michael Jackson case. That's in our legal segment, later on this hour. But before that, a look at a beleaguered industry and its attempt to hold on to this way of life.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WHITFIELD: As we mentioned at the top of the hour, a recent surge in deadly violence continued in Iraq today. There have been several bombings across the country. The most violent left nine Iraqi soldiers dead. A roadside bomb went off as their convoy passed. Twenty other troops were hurt in that explosion. Also today, an American military convoy was bombed along the road to the Baghdad airport. Three task force soldiers were wounded and an Iraqi civilian killed.
And six people are in custody in connection with Thursday's crash of a civilian helicopter. Joining us from Camp Taji in Baghdad to talk about the arrests and other efforts to deal with insurgents, Army Colonel David Bishop. Thanks, colonel, for joining us.
COL. DAVID BISHOP, U.S. ARMY: Hi, it's good to be here.
WHITFIELD: So this civilian apparently led the task force Baghdad troops to a pick-up truck that was believed to have been involved in this helicopter shooting. Is this what it is taking, the cooperation from civilians, in order to help get to the root of the insurgency problem?
BISHOP: Absolutely, the only way we're going to solve this problem is if the Iraqi people step up and contribute. That's exactly what we're seeing on an increasing basis everyday and this is a perfect example.
WHITFIELD: An increasing basis, why? When you also have so many different efforts of intimidation, many civilians who have felt that they have been afraid to step forward. What's different now?
BISHOP: Well, I think the Iraqi citizen is, on one hand, he's emboldened by the fact that he sees an Iraqi security force that is growing daily and becoming more and more credible and professional. At the same time, he feels more and more confident as he sees the Iraqi government growing. On the other hand, he and she are becoming fed-up with all the violence. Let's face it, the insurgents and terrorists are killing many Iraqi innocent civilians and not just their intended targets. So I think all those factors -- all those factors combined are leading to this trend.
WHITFIELD: Are you starting to feel more comfortable and confident about the Iraqi forces, even though they seem to be, those in training, are also targets of the insurgency. So while you have a number of volunteers stepping forward growing, you also have a growing number of volunteers who are being killed.
BISHOP: It takes great courage. Make no bones about it. But the Iraqi security forces are getting better every day. They're very proud of what they're doing. And the Iraqi people show a great proud in their Iraqi soldiers and the Iraqi police. Today my brigade handed over two large neighborhoods of the Atamia (ph) district of Baghdad to an outstanding Army battalion and the people just love it and they work very well with them.
WHITFIELD: As you look at what appears to be a sudden increase of insurgency attacks, are you seeing any parallels to the types of insurgency attacks that are taking place and this continued sort of uncertainty about the new government?
BISHOP: Well, first of all I don't think -- I think any rise that we've seen in recent weeks does not indicate a long-term trend. I think that over time, we're still at norm or below in terms of the level of attacks. One of the trends that we've seen in recent week, does not indicate a long term trend. I think that over time, we're still at norm or below in terms of the level of attacks.
One of the trends that we've noticed is that Iraqi insurgent attacks on U.S. forces and Iraqi security forces are increasingly becoming more and more ineffective and unsuccessful. Although they are still scoring some lethal kills on their intended targets, they're becoming more and more difficult because Iraqi security forces are becoming better and better. WHITFIELD: And more ineffective because there is more of a calling card, a recognizable calling card for both the Iraqi forces and the U.S. forces to identify?
BISHOP: Yes. I mean, we're working well together with the Iraqi army and the Iraqi police and so it's just becoming very difficult for the insurgents to operate with impunity. A couple months ago, where we would find an Iraq IED buried six feet below the surface of the road, now we find them just laying on the side of the road because they don't have the same amount of time to do what they used to do and of course that's less effective. So that's the kind of trend we're seeing. They're under pressure.
WHITFIELD: All right. U.S. Army Colonel David Bishop, thanks so much for taking the time out to meet with us and be safe.
BISHOP: Thank you. Take care.
WHITFIELD: When we come back, an update with the latest on scandals surrounding a fast food restaurant and the charges that have now been filed in that case.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WHITFIELD: Well, here's some stories making news across America today. Police say they know who put it there. A finger or at least a finger part in a cup of chili. Well, apparently the woman who claimed she found the human finger in her Wendy's chili was actually arrested. Police are still trying to figure out whose finger it was and how the customer actually got it. San Francisco area Wendy's figures the finger incident cost them $2 million in lost sales. They're offering free Frosties today to lure customers back.
He's top in the NFL draft. The San Francisco 49ers chose Alex Smith today as their first round draft choice. The 6'4" quarterback led Utah to an unbeaten season as a junior. He boosted 21-1 record as a starter.
And a lucky lottery player is in for a life-change experience. Someone out there holds the ticket to the $205 million mega-millions grand price. The ticket was purchased in Michigan. Here are the winning numbers, just in case you were in Michigan and you have a ticket, 23-25-43-46-49 and mega ball 26. Of course, we don't know the winner yet.
An annual survey of the Chesapeake Bay suggests the blue crab population is beginning to recover after years of decline. That's the good news. The bad news is that crabbing as a way of life is in peril. Here is CNN's Tom Foreman and the crabbers who are feeling the pinch.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Out on the Chesapeake Bay, generations of crabbers have ridden the dawn. ART PHILLIPS: I worked for my father, too.
FOREMAN: Like Art Phillips and his son Barry, pulling in the prized blue crabs. But this year, the work comes with a great worry.
ART PHILLIPS, CRABBER: We just don't want to see the business go out. It's going to affect everybody from the grocery store to everything.
FOREMAN: The problem is not off, but on shore in the plants where crabs are steamed, the meat packed out and packed for sale, almost entirely by foreign guest workers. A limited number of these workers are allowed into the U.S. on a seasonal basis and normally Robin Hall's plant would be full of them. This year, however, most were scooped up by richer industries, construction, landscaping before the crab harvest began.
ROBIN HALL, CRAB PLANT OWNER: We're hanging on by our fingernails, is what I like to say. And just the least little thing, we're gone to.
FOREMAN: Locals used to do this tedious work, but young Americans everywhere are fleeing rural communities for better jobs in the cities.
LAURA JOHNSON, FORMER CRAB PICKER: The homes down here are expensive. They just can't afford it on picking crab money. Just can't.
FOREMAN: So for $10 an hour over the past 10 years, foreign workers have come in for the crab season. "We come to do the jobs," Martin Medina says, "that people here don't want to do." A hundred miles away in Washington, an emergency measure to let more foreign workers in is being considered.
SEN. BARBARA MIKULSKI (D) MARYLAND: This amendment is desperately needed by small and seasonal business throughout the United States.
FOREMAN: Opponents however argue --
STEVEN CAMEROTA, CENTER FOR IMMIGRATION STUDIES: There's no such as a job Americans won't do, but there certainly are jobs that Americans won't do if the pay is very low, the benefits are virtually nonexistent and the working conditions are very poor.
FOREMAN: But people out here say it's just not that simple. If they paid enough money to bring enough Americans in to do all of this work, the cost of their crab meat would go through the roof. Ninety percent of the crab consumed in the U.S. is already from foreign waters, they say. And any increase in cost here will wipe out the jobs that remain for foreigners and Americans, too.
PHILLIPS: I guess trying to hold on to what used to be. I guess there is nothing wrong with that, is there?
FOREMAN: So the crabbers themselves caught and many are afraid that this summer they will dry their traps for the last time. Tom Foreman, CNN, Fishing Creek, Maryland.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WHITFIELD: Here's something else to ponder this weekend. Can you think of any reason for police to handcuff an unarmed five-year old girl at school? Well, they did. See what you think. That story straight ahead.
Also a week of twist and turns in the Michael Jackson trial. Our legal roundtable weighs in on both of those cases.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(WEATHER REPORT)
WHITFIELD: Bottom of the hour and our top story the U.S. Military arrests six men in connection with Thursday's crash of a commercial helicopter. U.S. Troops made the arrest today after getting civilian tips. Ten people were killed in the crash. A crash survivor was shot dead by insurgents.
There has been more insurgent violence in Iraq today. An American soldier died when his convoy was hit by a roadside bomb. At least a dozen people have been killed by bombings and shootings around the country today and the U.S. military says, another top Iraqi official was assassinated.
And the crowds are expected to return to St. Peter's Square Sunday, preparations for the formal inauguration of Pope Benedict XVI are already under way. Guests will include heads of state and other dignitaries. Florida Governor Jeb Bush is heading the U.S. delegation to that event.
A Florida attorney wonders if it was necessary to snap handcuffs on an unruly 5-year-old girl in Florida? Last month police were called after the child appeared to be out of control in the classroom. The incident was recorded on videotape.
More from CNN's Tony Harris.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TONY HARRIS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The camera was rolling as part of a self-improvement exercise for preschool children in St. Petersburg, Florida. You see a 5-year-old girl become disruptive.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We're not touching you. You're -- No, ma'am. We're not touching you, you don't touch me.
HARRIS: First, throwing objects on the floor and resisting the efforts of a teacher and assistant principal to calm her down.
Eventually, the girl's mother is called, but she's unable to come to the school.
The girl begins hitting the assistant principal, and the police are called.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No! No!
(voice-over): The video was stopped soon after the girl's hands are fastened behind her.
Now no charges have been filed against the 5-year-old, and she was released to her mother. But a lawyer for the girl's parents say that police went too far, and that he plans unspecified legal actions against them. Police officials have launched an internal investigation.
Tony Harris.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WHITFIELD: Well, here's a question for you. Is there a lawsuit waiting to happen? Something tells me the answer just might be yes.
Well, let's find out in our legal segment today, and ask Avery Friedman and Richard Herman. Hi to both of you guys.
RICHARD HERMAN, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Welcome back, Fred!
AVERY FRIEDMAN, CIVIL RIGHTS ATTORNEY: Welcome back, Fredricka? Good to have you back. We missed you.
WHITFIELD: Well, I missed you guy, too. It's good to be back. Well, lets talk about this case of the unruly 5-year-old, and Richard, you have to wonder, is there a lawsuit just waiting to take place here?
HERMAN: Well, Fred, for roughly $200 in any state in the country, you can file a lawsuit. But that doesn't mean you're going to recover anything. I saw this video here, what choice did the authorities have? I mean, if they did nothing and she jumped on top of a desk and fell down and broke her arm, they would have been sued.
WHITFIELD: But handcuffs?
HERMAN: They didn't have a straitjacket there. If this girl hurt herself in her tantrum, she would have been -- they would have been sued for that. That would have been liability. Here, there's no lawsuit here.
WHITFIELD: Avery, how do you see it?
FRIEDMAN: I mean, are we watching the same video here? Let me tell you something, the Congress of the United States enacted the civil rights law in 1871. And I hope for the sake of Pinellas County Elementary School administrators that when there's a problem with a 5- year-old or a 4-year-old, who's white that they call three police.
HERMAN: Oh, please.
WHITFIELD: So you think race is a matter here? FRIEDMAN: And that's what this is. What's that?
WHITFIELD: You said race an issue here right away.
FRIEDMAN: Well, right away. Let me tell you something, I'm trying to understand why it takes elementary school administrators, public school administrates three police officers to somehow restrain a 5-year-old who is black. And by the way, if you look at video, she is sitting calmly at that table. By the time the police got there is no reason in the world -- in fact, you know what, when Pinellas County called the attorney general's office in Tallahassee, I'd like to have been a fly in the wall when they said, hey, get the cuffs off that little girl. Holy smokes. What a mess.
WHITFIELD: So, Richard, you've been shaking your head on that. You don't necessarily think that it's an issue. But perhaps excessive use of force or (INAUDIBLE) of this 5-year-old.
HERMAN: I don't think it's excessive. I think they had to get her under control.
WHITFIELD: What about time-out in the corner or something, though.
FRIEDMAN: Goodness sakes, this is a 5-year-old little girl, Richard.
HERMAN: If this little girl hurt herself. If she jumped on top of a desk and fell down, believe me that school district would have been sued big time. But you know...
FRIEDMAN: I don't, maybe it's time for the school administrators to get appropriate training to take care and deal with these kind of issues rather than bring in law enforcement. Are you serious! This was way out of line.
HERMAN: Avery -- Avery, the little girl was out of control. Obviously, she has some major emotional problems. And you know...
FRIEDMAN: yes?
HERMAN: ... if the authorities in Florida, either federal or state want to bring a real action, how about the accomplices to the Couey family who withheld evidence from the police. How about going after them?
FRIEDMAN: You shifted gears. Lets deal with -- lets deal with the 5-year-old who was black and surrounded by government public administrators and government law enforcement who are all required, what five, six, seven of them. It's way out of line, Richard. Way out of line.
WHITFIELD: Well, likely a suit will be filed. We don't know what'll happen from there.
HERMAN: Zero. WHITFIELD: But let's now move to the West Coast where we know the case is already in court involving Michael Jackson. And Richard, you have to wonder is the prosecution score anything points so far? They've had a number of different kinds of witnesses, but is anything sticking at this point?
HERMAN: You know, Fred, all these recent witnesses we've seen come off of this 1108 evidence, as prior bad acts evidence. And every one of these witnesses are tainted. Every one of these former disgruntled employees who tried to sue Michael Jackson for wrongful termination and whom Michael Jackson counter-sued.
WHITFIELD: So, how harmful is it to the case?
HERMAN: I think it's zero harmful. I think they've proven nothing. With one week ago I think this prosecution is an absolute disgrace. More importantly, the accuser -- remember the accuser, because that's what this case is all about, the young accuser.
WHITFIELD: And we did hear from the accuser's mother and her credibility certainly has been questioned. Avery, how harmful is that? She took the stand. She's been cross-examined and she showed no signs of intimidation whatsoever. In fact, she was quite kurt a few times in that courtroom.
FRIEDMAN: Well, you're exactly right, Fredricka. She was on the stand for five days. And while she wandered and rambled and wasn't the best witness in the world, there were some fairly solid pieces of evidence that got in here. And you know, it's interest, Richard's observation about, well, these individuals have been discredited. You know what, the prosecution is expected to finish this week. And you know what, the defense is thinking of putting on people like Elizabeth Taylor and Kobe Bryant. Well, these are certainly people that have never had problems with sex issues or alcohol or drugs. Holy smokes. This whole thing is a circus.
WHITFIELD: Is it? And so what will it mean that some of these high-profile celebrity names, these folks just might appear? I mean, you wonder if any important information will be extrapolated from their testimony, because really people just might be so amazed at the fact they got these celebrities in the room they'll forget about what they're saying?
FRIEDMAN: It's star power. You're right, it's star power. What they're doing is they're trying to bring in people. Everyone will be star-struck with Elizabeth Taylor or Kobe Bryant or people like that. And frankly, I think it's of very, very little value. Richard does have one thing right on that in this case, and that is, the focus has to be on the accuser and what went on. And we also have similar acts introduced into evidence. So, I think the defense frankly is going to take off in a star gazing side show.
HERMAN: Hey, Fred, I have -- I have more...
WHITFIELD: Richard. HERMAN: Fred, I have more than one thing right in this case. But let me tell you, the young accuser's mother, she opened her testimony by advising the jury that she's going take the fifth for welfare fraud. Then she admitted on the stand that she committed perjury and fraud in the J.C. Penney case for money for her children. I mean, come on, the jury wouldn't look in her eyes. They wouldn't look in her eyes. And this is the last week for the prosecution. This is an absolute disgrace.
WHITFIELD: So all of that aside, then, Richard, as the defense tries to figure out where it's going, do you see any chance that M.J. might actually take the stand and testify on his own behalf.
HERMAN: Well, unless M.J. gives Tom Mesereau cases and cases of Jesus Juice there's no way M.J. can get on this witness stand. You cannot control him. You're going to open him up to a series of questions that don't need to be answered by him in this case. The burden of proof is on the prosecution here. If Michael gets on the stand, who knows what's going to happen. He's a loose cannon and that could do him in.
WHITFIELD: And Avery, real quick, that means you don't think M.J. will be on the stand either?
FRIEDMAN: Well, actually, that is the second thing Richard did get right. I don't think we are going to see Michael Jackson get on the stand. He's out of control. He subjects himself to all the kind of questions that prosecution wanted to put in. We're not going to see it, Fredricka.
WHITFIELD: Avery Friedman, Richard Herman, thanks so much gentleman. Always good to see you.
FRIEDMAN: Nice to see you.
HERMAN: Fred, give my best to little John.
WHITFIELD: I will indeed.
HERMAN: Take care.
WHITFIELD: Thank you.
HERMAN: Bye.
WHITFIELD: Rafik Hariri's son speaks out for the first time. He vows to bring his father's killer's to justice. Our exclusive interview coming up next.
Plus, it's a yacht with quite a bit of history from patrolling the river for alcohol smugglers to entertaining Washington's elite? We'll give you history straight ahead on the "Novak Zone."
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WHITFIELD: This just in, we're just getting word of a deadly attack on a journalist in Iraq. The Associated Press reports that one of its television cameraman has been killed in crossfire in Mosul. We'll have more details as they become available.
Syria plans to complete it's troop withdraw from Lebanon in the next couple days beating next Saturday's deadline. That word today from a Syrian security source. The United Nations is sending two teams to Lebanon on Monday to verify the pullback.
And those teams will also lay the ground work for U.N. Commission that's investigating the murder of Rafik Hariri. Syria's withdraw was triggered by weeks of massive protest following Hariri's assassination. Now, Hariri's son has inherited the political mantle of his father, and vows to bring the assassins to justice.
In his first TV interview since entering the political arena, Saad Hariri spoke exclusively -- exclusively rather with CNN's Brent Sadler. Here is part of what he had to say.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BRENT SADLER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Do you intend to run in the upcoming elections?
SAAD HARIRI, SON OF FMR. PRIME MINISTER: I do intend. I do intend. And I think I do intend to run. I do intend to prove myself. I do intend to work hard. I do intend to achieve my father's goals.
SADLER: Do you think that the changes that have taken place that will lead to a change that Syria can live with?
HARIRI: I think the Lebanese people have spoken. I think each one that came down on the 14th of March to the Martyrs' Square, to where my late father is buried is a clear word of freedom. That the Lebanese show the world what they wanted. And I believe Syria heard that word, and is acting up on that.
SADLER: Recently, it was reported you had to leave the country because it was unsafe for you to be here.
HARIRI: My father was (INAUDIBLE), so I would consider it not safe. I understand the risks and my family understands the risk and this is something that we have to deal with. But no risk will let us not continue the legacy of my father.
SADLER: Do you intend to travel the world, like your father did, meeting world leaders in the hope that you can help this country progress?
HARIRI: I want to use every single relationship my father had. President Chirac has been a great friend of my father. He was really amazing with the family. And Saudi Arabia has done amazing things for Lebanon. So, I am going to ask the help of all those wise men to help Lebanon, and to help me to achieve or to continue what my father started.
SADLER: Who do you think assassinated your father? HARIRI: I don't know. I don't know. But whoever killed him, we will not stop until we find him.
SADLER: On the day that he was buried, you and other brothers carried his coffin to the Muhammad Ali Mean Mosque (ph), what if anything was going through your mind.
HARIRI: He was a great man. My father's death has united the Lebanese, and we have to make sure this unity stays.
SADLER: Is it your ambition to try to become prime minister one day, follow exactly in your father's footsteps?
HARIRI: I think that what my father wanted was in a (INAUDIBLE) a position. He wanted to change. He wanted to do something for Lebanon. And if I can do it without being a prime minister or with being a prime minister that is something that time will tell.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WHITFIELD: Once again, those comments from the son of Lebanon's assassinated prime minister. From an exclusive interview from CNN's Brent Sadler.
A yacht used by Washington's elite, was once used to enforce prohibition. The history of the U.S.S. Sequoia, straight ahead on the "Novak Zone."
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WHITFIELD: It's a floating piece of Americana. The U.S.S. Sequoia is the former presidential yacht, and sight of numerous note worthy events. CNN's Robert Novak was invited board this week for the "Novak Zone."
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ROBERT NOVAK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Welcome to the "Novak Zone."
We're aboard the presidential yacht, USS Sequoia, anchored on the Potomac River in Washington D.C. We're in the main saloon of the Sequoia, which is a national historic landmark by act of Congress.
We're talking to Gary Silversmith, the owner of the Sequoia.
Mr. Silversmith, the Sequoia before it was a presidential yacht was something else. Tell us a little about it's history.
GARY SILVERSMITH, SEQUOIA PRES. YACHT GROUP: The government purchased the Sequoia to enforce prohibition. And they put the Sequoia on the Potomac River and on other bodies of river. And the rum runners drink prohibition thought that it would be a rich yachtsman. They would come to sell the liquor, and the feds would jump off and arrest them. At time, Hubert Hoover was secretary of commerce under Harding. And he would leave the Department of Commerce Building in Washington, which today is called the Hubert Hoover building. And he would go to the embassies in Washington and drink, because they were exempt from prohibition. When Hoover became president, he said we don't need this Sequoia enforced prohibition. We'll use it as the presidential yacht.
NOVAK: How do you end up as the owner of this -- the presidential yacht?
SILVERSMITH: Almost six years ago, I drove down to Norfolk, Virginia, and met with the shipyard that owned her. And the shipyard was undergoing a corporate reorganization. And I knew that they were going to sell this special national historic landmark and I negotiated to buy it.
NOVAK: But it was sold originally by the government when Jimmy Carter was president. How did that come to pass?
SILVERSMITH: Jimmy Carter of course the Georgia peanut farmer decided to discard the trappings of presidency, opted to sell the Sequoia. And the government held sealed bit sale. And there were a number of people who endeavored to buy the Sequoia, three of whom who were unsuccessful bidders, were Armand Hammer and Evel Knievel and Larry Flint.
NOVAK: What kind of use is it put to right now, Gary.
SILVERSMITH: She's used by many dignitaries, just last might, for example, Speaker HAYNES:, Governor Romney, Senator Dole and other dignitaries used her. The night before about 20 ambassadors. So, she's used by a lot of the Washington elite and a lot of the non- elite. For example, we take out Walt Reed amputees on a number of cruises. We sponsor a sea scout troop. So, she's put to good use.
NOVAK: I understand this is the first handicap access boat because of President Roosevelt?
SILVERSMITH: We're told that -- that they put an elevator in here for Roosevelt which brought him in from the main salon down below to the bedrooms, and the crew members had to carry him top-side, which he certainly disliked. And when Lyndon Johnson came aboard, he said that the Sequoia did not need an elevator, it needed a bar. So, today we have a very fine bar and unfortunately we do not have an elevator.
NOVAK: There's a lot of history on this boat, Mr. Silversmith. President Roosevelt and his supreme-commander in Europe, General Eisenhower met here. What did they talk about?
SILVERSMITH: Well, they planned European strategy and D-Day. So there's a great connection with the Sequoia and America's military efforts, including planning World War II. Truman also worked on board contemplating dropping the nuclear bomb. In 1946, Truman hosted the first nuclear arms control conference. Later, Lyndon Johnson decided to escalate the war in Vietnam from the Sequoia, when riding with the commandant of the Marine Corps. And of course, Nixon and Kissinger, played to withdraw from Vietnam on the Sequoia.
NOVAK: You say they planned dropping the atom bomb and Emperor Hirohito, was a guest on this boat.
SILVERSMITH: Yes.
NOVAK: That's an irony, isn't it.
SILVERSMITH: There is certainly an irony. About 30 years after he decided to drop the bomb, after Hirohito was a guest of President Gerald Ford. And he rode on the Sequoia. And in fact, picture were published throughout Japan of Emperor Hirohito and his wife sailing on the Sequoia.
NOVAK: Now, the table right be hind me here in the salon was used by Harry Truman for poker games. I see the little card said, he occasionally played poker. He played poker all the time. Has -- did other presidents use this boat for amusement and fun and games?
SILVERSMITH: Very much so. In fact, the Sequoia was probably used more for unofficial visits than official visits. Some of the presidents used it for official purposes such as lobbying. Lyndon Johnson lobbied, for example, for all of the civil rights legislation on board. But most of presidents ranging from Harry Truman playing poker, to Richard Nixon escaping the woes of Watergate, to John F. Kennedy, they all enjoyed the Sequoia for their purposes uses.
NOVAK: Now, it was used a lot in the Nixon administration. I was a privilege to be a guest of secretary of Defense Mel Laird, Melvin Laird during the Nixon administration. But Nixon himself used it more than any other president, didn't he.
SILVERSMITH: That's correct. According to Captain Combs (ph) who took Nixon out. He said that Nixon used the Sequoia over a hundred times. And he did a number of important events on board, both official and unofficial. From an official stand point, he hosted Brezhnev and the first Soviet/American nuclear arms control conference, the start of the end of the Cold War. He also reportedly decided to resign on the Sequoia. But he -- he felt the White House, we're told, were bugged during Watergate. And he wanted to go out on the Sequoia which he felt was safe for him. So, he used it over a hundred times usually with just his family.
NOVAK: And now the big question for Gary Silversmith, owner of the presidential yacht Sequoia. Mr. Silversmith, if President Bush were to call you this morning and ask you, gee, I would really like to use the yacht for some visitors to the White House. What would you say and how soon could you get ready for us?
SILVERSMITH: I would say, what time? Give us five minutes. I would welcome him at any time and I would welcome any president on the Sequoia.
NOVAK: Has he used to yet?
SILVERSMITH: Unfortunately no.
NOVAK: Gary Silversmith, thank you very much.
SILVERSMITH: It's a pleasure.
NOVAK: And thank you for being in the "Novak Zone."
(END VIDEOTAPE)
And you can catch more of Bob Novak on the "CAPITAL GANG." Tonight's focus -- troubles mount for the House Majority Leader Tom DeLay.
That's tonight at 7:00 Eastern right here on CNN.
Still much more ahead on CNN SATURDAY.
At the top of the hour it's "NEXT@CNN."
At 4:00 CNN LIVE SATURDAY, new technology that will help prevent friendly fire incidents. We'll talk to a retired Lieutenant Colonel on the lastest tracking system.
And at 5:00 "PEOPLE IN THE NEWS" profiling Christie Alley, Madonna, and Nicole Kidman.
Back with headlines right after this.
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