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CNN Live Saturday

Interview with Suzanne Farrell; Edgar Ray Killen Sentenced To 60 Years For Civil Rights Murders

Aired June 25, 2005 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: An Italian judge issues arrest warrants for Americans suspected in a Muslim cleric's abduction. A source close to the probe says warrants were issued for 13 Americans believed to be CIA agents. The Italian investigators say the Egyptian born Muslim cleric was suspected of possible terrorist activities.
Nearly six months after the December tsunami disaster, the United Nations has a plan to move hundreds of thousands of homeless tsunami survivors into shelters. The U.N. says Indonesian survivors could get semi-permanent or permanent homes in two years. Many of the half million homeless still live in tents.

Experience the power of CNN video on the computer. Log on to CNN.com, click on the video link and browse for the video you want to see. Watch what you want, whenever you want free at CNN.com.

We begin with the tragic case involving three New Jersey boys. The grief stricken father of one of the boys discovered the children's bodies in the trunk of a car. Authorities say the deaths were an accident, but now, questions are being raised as to why police failed to search the trunk in the first place.

CNN's Mary Snow is live from Camden, New Jersey with the very latest -- Mary.

MARY SNOW, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Fredricka, it turns out police say that the boys never left the backyard where they were last seen alive. Prosecutors say it's believed that they were playing in that trunk of the car in the backyard when they became trapped Wednesday around 5:00 p.m. Now, the medical examiner determined that the boys suffocated, prosecutors say that there was no evidence of foul play.

Now, despite an extensive search over the past two days, a father of one of the boys found the bodies last night while he was said to be looking for a jumper cable in the car trunk. And now, there are questions about why the police didn't find the boys sooner. The Camden police chief says that the officers searched the car just hours after the boys disappeared.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHIEF EDWIN FIGUEROA, CAMDEN POLICE DEPT: I feel very bad just like the community and other law enforcement officers that three children are found in the trunk of a vehicle. And I think that alone is a tragic situation that puts us all under and we certainly feel for the parents.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SNOW: Camden's prosecutor says a panel has been now set up to review the search and rescue mission of the police to see if there is any action that needs to be taken. One question right now that cannot be answered is when the boys died. Medical examiner says at this point cannot determine a time of death.

Here in Camden, neighbors are coming by making a makeshift memorial to the three little boys -- Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: Oh, how terribly sad. Thanks so much. Mary Snow in Camden, New Jersey.

So, how can parents prevent such child tragedies? We'll give you tips and techniques for keeping your kids safe in the next half hour of CNN LIVE SATURDAY.

In Iraq, the most women in the armed services killed in one single attack. Thursday's attack on a military convoy in Fallujah killed at least four U.S. marines, including three women. Another marine and a sailor are still unaccounted for. The attack also wounded 13 U.S. marines, 11 of them women.

New details are emerging from that attack in Fallujah. Let's get latest from CNN's Ed Henry who's at the Pentagon -- Ed.

ED HENRY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good afternoon, Fredricka. Officials here spending part of the weekend sorting through both the difficult process of the investigation as well as trying to figure out the identities of those who were killed.

In fact, the Pentagon has confirmed the identity of at least one male marine, Corporal Carlos Paneda, 23 of Los Angeles. Separately, the widow of Corporal Chad Powell has confirmed that in fact her husband was killed in this attack on Thursday night. She spoke very emotionally to one of our affiliates in North Carolina, WNCT, about how he also left behind a 3-year-old child.

The majority of those killed in this attack, as you mentioned, with were women. And female marines Lance Corporal Holly Sharet, is the first female marine who has been identified as one of those killed, she's from Rhode Island. She was a mail clerk. And in fact, back in May, she had been profiled on a marine Web site. And she spoke of the joy of bringing letters from home to her comrades in Iraq even though she had to go with a flak jacket and carry around 70 pound sacks of mail.

She also had a dream, she was coming back -- supposed to come back in about a year and wanted a job with the U.S. Postal Service. And she told this Web site, in fact, quote, "it won't be the same as being a marine, but at least I'm in uniform."

That dream of course was cut short. And now this is highlighting the difficult issue of trying to keep female troops out of the line of fire in Iraq. As you know, the Pentagon policy right now bans women from being in combat units such as infantry and special forces. But given the strength of the insurgency, given the difficulty of sorting out the front lines in Iraq, it is obviously difficult for women to stay out of harm's way -- Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: So as a result of that, now, Ed, are you getting a sense from the Pentagon that they are now going to reexamine some of the roles that women are playing in Iraq, given that no matter where you are, you are in the danger zone, you are on the front lines?

HENRY: In fact, congress has been taking a look in recent months at trying to sort through that and maybe change those lines and maybe try to get women further away from combat, but the difficulty is that the Pentagon right now is -- needs as many troops as possible.

And in fact, the Army came forward when congress debating that recently saying no way to move women from some of these jobs. They just need as many troops as they can right now, Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: All right. Ed Henry at the Pentagon, thanks so much.

American women are playing vital roles in the U.S. military mission in Iraq. Right now, just over 11,000 women are serving in the U.S. military in that country. As of last Wednesday, 36 women have been killed in Iraq since 2003.

Female soldiers and marines are banned from direct combat as you heard Ed explain, but in a war without front lines, women are often directly involved in firefights and frontline action. CNN's Betty Nguyen has a story of why women are often so close to these battles.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BETTY NGUYEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): When U.S. forces kick in a door in the hunt for insurgents, both male and female soldiers rush in. The women, sometimes referred to as members of Team Lioness, search the females for weapons or explosives. Muslim culture dictates that men are not to touch a woman they do not know.

Women in the U.S. military are still technically barred from being in forward combat operations. But in Iraq, where fighting breaks out anywhere, women do participate in raids, roadblocks, security patrols and travel in convoys.

One woman who knows firsthand the dangers female soldiers face in Iraq is Sergeant Leigh Ann Hester. This is tape of an assault on troops traveling near Hester's unit. It was shot by insurgents and seized by the U.S. military after the attack.

SGT. LEIGH ANN HESTER, U.S. ARMY: We were shadowing a convoy that had become ambushed. We moved to contact, put yourselves between the insurgents and that convoy. And basically we turned down the road and flanked the enemy, firing upon the enemy the whole time. And to make a long story short, we did a great job that day. And I believe we killed 27 that day and injured 8 insurgents. And we took three injured ourselves in my squad, three injured soldiers. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Awarded the Silver Star to Sergeant Leigh Hester, United States Army.

NGUYEN: For her bravery that say, Hester awarded the Silver Star. She's the first woman to earn that award since World War II.

More than three dozen female troops have been killed in Iraq.

Betty Nguyen, CNN, Atlanta.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WHITFIELD: And American women in uniform are also potentially in harm's way in Afghanistan. CNN's Peter Viles has the story of a California woman now back home sharing her experiences as an U.S. Army interrogator.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PETER VILES, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): She was an interrogator for the army in Afghanistan, valued in part because she is a woman.

DIANE GILLIAM, FRM. ARMY INTERROGATOR: A female, because of the culture, they will not talk to male interrogators because it is not their family member.

VILES: So, if the American military wants to question women in Afghanistan or conduct searches of women in Iraq, it often needs women to do the job. Diane Gilliam says she was recruited by special forces which might have meant exposure to combat.

GILLIAM: I laughed at him in my girlie way. And I said, but I'm a girl. That's exactly what we want, your a female interrogator, you're a necessity, you're an asset.

I was like, aw.

VILES: Once inside the interrogation booth, she said she could be as tough as the next guy.

GILLIAM: I separated myself from who I was in the interrogation booth to who I was outside. I would be downright just evil in my voice. The second I stepped out I was like, hey, what's up.

VILES: Under official Pentagon policy, women do not serve in combat units.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The policy, generally, is that women are not on the front lines but in these wars...

GILLIAM: There's no front lines. You walk down the street, you don't know if that person is the enemy.

VILES: In Afghanistan, Pentagon policy did not protect Diane Gilliam. The helicopter she was riding in crashed, five Americans died. She was seriously injured and was discharged in May.

GILLIAM: It is unfortunate that anybody has to die in a war. But it is a war, people are going to die. We die for our country. Freedom is not free. So, why should it just be the men putting their lives on the line?

VILES: And in these wars, every one who puts on a uniform puts their life on the line.

Peter Viles for CNN, Huntington Beach, California.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WHITFIELD: You can learn more about the role of American female troops in war zones by logging on to our Web site, CNN.com. There you can watch several special videos including women at war in Iraq. Watch what you want whenever you want free at CNN.com.

Ahead on CNN LIVE SATURDAY, searching for answers in the Natalee Holloway case. Five suspects are to appear in court this hour. We'll go live to Aruba for an update.

Also, what the Reverend Billy Graham said to his followers about this being the last crusade. We'll bring you a live report from Flushing Meadows, New York.

And Edgar Ray Killen found guilty of manslaughter. But did justice prevail? The story and much more straight ahead on CNN LIVE SATURDAY.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: In news across America now, the fire is out at Praxair distribution plant in St. Louis, Missouri. But investigations (sic) don't know what caused the spectacular explosions at the gas processing plant. Despite the widespread fire and intense flames, no injuries were reported.

In the Western United States, the battle against several big wildfires continues this weekend. Lightning-sparked fires have swept across tens of thousands of acres in Arizona, California and Nevada. This blaze northeast of Phoenix has scorched at least 60,000 acres and destroyed nearly a dozen homes.

Flames are also spreading in Southern California where tens of thousands of acres have been burned. One of those fires has destroyed at least half a dozen homes in the Morongo Valley.

British lab tests confirm a second case of mad cow disease in the United States. But government officials say the animal did not make it into the food chain. The Secretary of Agriculture says American beef is safe.

And NASA says the July launch of the space shuttle Discovery remains on target. The first shuttle flight since the Columbia tragedy in 2003 has a liftoff window from July 13 to July 31. NASA engineers say any danger posed by ice falling off the shuttle's tank during liftoff is an acceptable risk.

It is one of the final public events for the Reverend Billy Graham. At 86 and in declining health, the popular preacher is holding his last American crusade this weekend in New York. Thousands are expected to jam a park in Queens to see Graham. CNN's Alina Cho is there. And she's had a chance to talk to the folks there. Folks coming out by the thousands, Alina.

ALINA CHO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: They certainly will be soon, Fredricka.

You know, Billy Graham is often called "America's pastor." And that is certainly evident here in New York where Graham will deliver his second of three sermons tonight. As many as 70,000 people jammed Flushing Meadows, Corona Park last night and you can bet the crowds will be just as big tonight.

A lot has been made, as you know, about Dr. Graham's failing health. He is 86, after all. And suffers from numerous illnesses including Parkinson's disease. But last night, he didn't talk about being sick, he talked about being out of practice.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REV. BILLY GRAHAM: He introduced me and I got up and I had four outlines of sermons that I had prepared to preach somewhere. And that night I preached all four of them in ten minutes. And tonight, I feel just as tense and just nervous, because I haven't preached a sermon or given a talk since last September. And if you don't use your voice and get used to speaking, it's very difficult to start again so this is like my first night.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHO: This morning, there was a youth rally here where the star was not Billy Graham but Bible Man. He is a Christian action hero who fights evil by quoting the Bible. Parents talked about the importance of passing along God's message to their children.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We have it within our homes. We talk about it. This just puts more meat on the bone, I guess you would say.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I always believe in giving them a positive message. And with everything else going on out there, Bible Man is a positive message for everyone.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHO: Though, this is expected to be Graham's last crusade in America. He is considering an invitation to preach in London in November. But so far, no announcements yet about that.

WHITFIELD: And so, Alina, this evening, when Graham takes to the stage there, about how long is he expected to speak? And approximately how many people are they expecting to turn out?

CHO: Well, every night they say -- they're hoping at least that 70,000 people will come out. There is room for 70,000 seats. With the open field, 150,000 people could turn out.

He speaks for about 30 minutes each night, Fredricka. And part of that is because of his failing health. It used to be that he spoke for 45 minutes, an hour. He certainly is a bit older now and a bit more frail. So a bit of a shorter sermon. 30 minutes is what we're expecting.

WHITFIELD: Well, we know the folks there will be relishing every minute that he speaks. Alina Cho, thanks so much from Flushing Meadows.

Well, coming up at 5:00, Eastern today "PEOPLE IN THE NEWS" focuses on the Reverend Billy Graham. It's an hour-long look at the life of the renowned evangelist and the impact of his ministry.

Burning the U.S. flag, the U.S. House has approved an amendment that would make it against the law. But does it violate your freedom of speech?

Plus, it is officially summer. So, what's keeping campers away from the Yosemite National Park?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: It's a summer bummer for Yosemite National Park. The high country got so much snow last season, some campgrounds will not open this summer. There is still 12 feet of snow at higher elevations. Other places are just too slushy and soggy. And that means 3400 summer visitors are getting cancellation notices now.

Well, let's get a check on the national weather system with CNN meteorologist Bonnie Schneider where it is really hot in most places, but I have a feeling, it might cool down in a strange way for the Carolinas, huh?

(WEATHER REPORT)

WHITFIELD: Well, as the search continues for Natalee Holloway, this hour, the five suspects connected to her disappearance await a judge's decision. We'll have a live report from Aruba coming up.

Plus, after two high profile missing children cases this week, a child safety expert talks about what actions you can take to keep them safe next on CNN LIVE SATURDAY.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

WHITFIELD: Our top stories now. At least four marines, three of them women, were killed Thursday in a bloody attack on a convoy in Fallujah. Thirteen others wounded, 11 of them were female marines in Iraq helping search women and children at military check points. President Bush says his stance on the Iraq war will not waiver. In his Saturday radio address, the president said the U.S. mission in Iraq is difficult and tough fighting is expected in the months ahead. The president will detail his policy in Iraq during a special address to the nation Tuesday night at 8:00 Eastern. And you can watch it right here on CNN.

The House of Representatives has voted overwhelmingly to ban Medicare and Medicaid payments for erectile dysfunction drugs like Viagra. The bill also stops sex offenders from getting government bought performance enhancing drugs. The congressional budget office estimates the ban would save tax payers $2 billion saved over the next ten years.

And remember, you can view more CNN reports online. Just visit CNN.com and click on watch for free video and you can check out the most popular stories, as well.

Now, unraveling the mystery of a teen missing in Aruba. Natalee Holloway vanished on a trip to the island last month. Now, a Texas team joins in the search for the teen. And five suspects being held in the case await a judges decision.

CNN's Chris Lawrence is live from Palm Beach, Aruba, with more -- Chris?

CHRIS LAWRENCE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Fredricka, we expect those suspects to be in court any minute now and as that plays out before a judge, that search team is already out there using at least one search dog and special sonar equipment.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

LAWRENCE, (voice-over): A team of American volunteers is on the ground in Aruba, already involved in the search for Natalee Holloway.

TIM MILLER, TEXAS EQUUSEARCH: And we've got the green light to do whatever we need to do for one reason and that is to take Natalee home. I feel very, very optimistic that we are going to take Natalee back to Alabama where she belongs.

LAWRENCE: Texas Equusearch is trying to cover as much ground as possible on an island roughly the size of Washington, D.C.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are these areas that have been searched?

LAWRENCE: They're working with Aruban investigators trying to find anything that may have been missed. Natalee's friends last saw her leaving this bar four weeks ago. She drove off with a Dutch teenager and his two friends: Juran van der Sloot and brothers Satish and Deepak Kalpoe. They all told police they dropped her off back at the Holiday Inn, but now they have changed their story.

The Kalpoe's mother says Satish admitted they made it up to protect their friend, Juran and actually dropped Natalee and Juran at a beach down the road. NADIRA RAMIREZ, SUSPECTS MOTHER: So, I asked my son, that where you guys rely put off her; you said the Holiday Inn. He said, "No, mom." That he actually leave him somewhere by the beach there, by the Marriott, with her.

LAWRENCE: Juran van der Sloot's mother now says Juran told her he also lied, but did not hurt Natalee.

ANITA VAN DER SLOOT, MOTHER OF SUSPECT: Mom, I dropped the girl at the beach. I walk with her. I left her because she wanted to stay there. I left and I don't know what happened.

LAWRENCE: Police turned up the pressure on the family Thursday when they arrested Paul van der Sloot, Anita's husband and Juran's father.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LAWRENCE: Now, Mr. Van der Sloot is a deputy judge here on the island, but he will appear in court today as one of the accused. We caught up with his wife Anita van der Sloot as she was arriving at the jail where he is being held this morning. It looked like she was bringing some fresh towels and shirts, but we understand she was not allowed to visit her husband -- Fredricka?

WHITFIELD: All right. Chris Lawrence, thanks so much for that update.

Well, we now know the case of those three missing boys in New Jersey ended in tragedy. The three boys ages 5, 6 and 11 boys disappeared Wednesday in Camden. After an intense search for the children, the father of one of the boys found the bodies in the trunk of a car. The local prosecutor says it was a horrible accident.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VINCENT SARUBBI, CAMDEN COUNTY PROSECUTOR: As you can see, there was no evidence of any foul play. There was no evidence of any criminal activity. In fact, when the autopsy was conducted, there were no outward or inward signs of trauma. There were no signs of assault. It was a situation where the three young boys suffocated in the trunk.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: Well, this heart-breaking story puts the spotlight on keeping kids safe in every situation, especially during the summer. Joining us with some tips and techniques is Nancy McBride. She is the national safety director of the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children. Good to see you, Nancy.

NANCY MCBRIDE, NATIONAL CNTR. FOR MISSING AND EXPLOITED CHILDREN: Good to see you, Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: Well, it seems you have to cast a really wide net to teach kids about safety on so many different levels. Where do you begin?

MCBRIDE: Well, I think where we begin is really focusing our message on the adults out there and not expecting our children to protect themselves. We really have to protect our own kids. It is too much burden to put on them.

WHITFIELD: So, it begins with the parents taking that responsibility?

MCBRIDE: Yes.

WHITFIELD: Keeping an eye on the kids and then, when you advance it to conversations with the children to tell them that these are the things you should do, shouldn't do, how do you begin that dialogue?

MCBRIDE: Well, you can just begin the dialogue by talking in a reassuring manner to your children, teaching them some basic rules like checking first, checking in with you, you checking in with them, making sure that they're with a group of friends. That's the sad part of the -- about the Camden situation: They were together, which is what we encourage kids to do and that if they ever get in situations that make them uncomfortable or scared, they say no and get out of those situations right away and they tell you, the trusted adult or parent.

WHITFIELD: There are so many different degrees of children facing potential dangers. We've got this Camden, New Jersey, case and then we saw earlier in the week with Brennan in Utah, out at a Cub Scout with other colleagues, you know, other Cub Scouts. Is that a more typical setting of danger? When kids go out in unfamiliar territory, get lost, get separated, get in trouble?

MCBRIDE: I think, regardless of where they are, that there is potential danger. Whether they're in a mall, whether they're outside and we really need to teach our children there are good, trusted adults they can go to if they're in trouble. even if they don't know them. Whether it's an uniformed security guard or a law enforcement, a mother with children, we've got to give kids more than a stranger- danger message. It just isn't effective.

WHITFIELD: Well, it's interesting because obviously, this little boy had some kind of conversations with his parents or some other adult figure as you said, you know -- stay on -- if you get separated or lost, stay on the trail, don't talk to strangers. He didn't talk to strangers. He avoided a few of the rescuers who, apparently, were nearby, but then he finally decided to approach one stranger.

So, how do you teach your kids that while you do want to be careful about strangers, there just might be some strangers who are safe? Who do they look for? How do they trust certain strangers?

MCBRIDE: Well, I think the best way to approach it is, it's much different than your child to need help and seek out somebody than a it for just a random adult to come up to the child try to get them to do something. So, that's a good place to start. If you as a child need help, here are some people you can seek out and don't be afraid to do that and if that you're lost, stay put. Try not to wander. Don't go out in a parking lot looking for your car, because people are looking for you and there's a better chance that they'll find you, if you stay put.

WHITFIELD: And you mention, among some of the tips, that you advice parents to, perhaps, equip some of the kids with some safety guards. Everything from a whistle to maybe even a cell phone. What ages are we talking about? Because you're also putting a great responsibility on some kids who just might not be equipped to handle that.

MCBRIDE: That's a great point and rather than putting an age on it, you really have to talk to your children; determine their maturity level, if they can handle it, if you feel comfortable with that and discuss it with them. Find out from them what they want to do. I think having the whistle outside is a great tool for even young children. You don't want to necessarily do that in an enclosed space. Having the cell phone is good for older children, as long as you set the rules and the guidelines and your children are clear about that.

WHITFIELD: All right, and you know, when you talk about a lot of kids getting their instructions, if not from their parents, how much can they rely on, perhaps, school systems or some other sort of public forms, whether it's, you know, Cub Scouts or Girl Scouts, Brownies? Should those entities be teaching kids about some of these things?

MCBRIDE: Absolutely and we actually have a wonderful partnership with the Honeywell Corporation and we developed a kit called "Got to be Safe" that we've distributed in school systems all across the country

So, there are many good programs out there. Parents, teachers, community members need to evaporate them. Make sure they're age appropriate and that they're really getting an effective message across.

WHITFIELD: All right. Nancy McBride. The Web site is Missing Kids.com. National safety director of National Center for Missing and Exploited Children.

Thank you, so much, for joining us.

MCBRIDE: Thank you.

WHITFIELD: Edgar Ray Killen, found guilty of manslaughter, but more than 40 years after the deaths for three civil rights workers. Why wasn't the ex-Klansman convicted of murder?

Our "Legal Roundtable" is straight ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: This just in. In the Florida panhandle, a reported shark attack. And now a 14-year-old girl is dead after being attacked reportedly while swimming. The beaches in Southern Walton County are now closed following the incident. It happened at about 11:15 a.m. near the Standistan Gulf and Beach Resort, according to the South Walton Fire District.

The girl lost a leg in the attack and then died afterward, according to John Fitch of the fire district. The shark was believed to be about 11 feet long, but authorities aren't sure what type of shark it may have been. Sharks apparently were chasing bait fish in the area.

So once again, a 14-year-old dying after injuries resulting from a shark attack in South Walton County, Florida, in the panhandle.

Now, former Ku Klux Klan leader Edgar Ray Killen was sentenced this week to maximum of 60 years in prison. He was guilty of manslaughter in the 1964 deaths of three civil rights workers in Philadelphia, Mississippi. The sentence amounts to life behind bars for the 80-year-old man who is confined to a wheelchair. He doesn't come up for parole for another 20 years.

Will Killen remain unremorseful and offer no explanations for the 41-year-old murders that sparked the movie "Mississippi Burning." Here to talk about this landmark trial, are legals experts Richard Herman and Avery Freidman. Good to see you both gentleman.

RICHARD HERMAN, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Hi, Fredricka.

AVERY FREEDMAN, LAW PROFESSOR: Good afternoon, Fredricka.

WHITIFELD: Well, Richard, let me begin with you. Initially, the jurors said they were hung. And then they came back with a conviction on a lesser offense instead of murder, but instead on manslaughter. Is this about the way you thought this case might end?

HERMAN: Well Fredricka, apparently they did not come back hung. In other words, Monday afternoon they began deliberating. They deliberated for less than three hours. The day coming to an end. The judge called them in to get an idea of where they stood. At that point, the jury foreman said we are at -- we are not -- we don't have a verdict right now and we're 6-6. So, the judge said, OK. Let them go home. As soon as they came back Tuesday morning, they came back after two hours with verdicts. So, they were not deadlocked.

But you know, it is a little surprising that they were 6-6 Monday afternoon and then all of a sudden came back. The 6-6 had to be on the murder and once they hit the manslaughter, I'm sure it was a clean sweep on that.

WHITFIELD: So Avery, what do you think happned? What it a sense of not really quite understanding the perameters of the murder versus manslaughter and that's maybe why they were hung for a moment or deadlocked?

FREEDMAN: Well, I kind of see it a little bit differently, Fredricka. I see this as a case where the jury was stuck with evidence that was essential 41-years-old. Actually, they made the right decision.

But, what they did was something that I think had repercussions all over the world. As far as not only most Americans, but much of the world looked at Mississippi as "Mississippi Burning" as you mentioned. But this showed that a Mississippi jury could render a fair decision and put the race of the victim and the race of the perpetrator aside. So we have Mississippi changing.

And to me, that debate that went on in that relatively short period of time told us one thing, they got it. They understood it. And the verdict was a correct one.

WHITIFELD: Well, go ahead.

HERMAN: Fredricka, what's going to happen, every law student's going to take the bar exam throughout the country is going to deal with this distinction in July with whether it's an intentional killing, specific intent with malice of forethought.

FREEDAN: Right.

HERMAN: Killing, planned to kill. Or was it something else?

And here the prosecutors argued in summation to the jury that Killen put in motion a plan to kidnap and assault the three men, not specifically to murder them. And that was a distinction. And that's why the jury came down with the manslaughter. And they were right.

WHITFIELD: Well it's interesting because, you know one of those slain, Michael Schwerner, his widow, Rita Bender, said the jurors did not get it right. She said obviously people are not looking at the entire case and, therefore, a murder conviction should have come down. Howeer, when I talked to the attorney general, he said, well, if there had been a murder conviction, he would have been up for parole in ten years versus in this case, with a lesser offense, manslaughter, it ends up being 20 years for parole.

But, an 80-year-old man, he's likely to spend all that time in jail. So, you know, Richard, is this justice ultimately?

HERMAN: Well Fredricka, in 1967, 18 people went on trial in Mississippi for civil rights violations. Seven of them convicted. Eight acquitted. Three were hung. Of the three hung, one of them was Killen. Of seven people that were convicted then, not one of them did more than six years in prison. So, I mean, this is a death sentence for Killen.

WHITFIELD: So, Avery, what about everybody else? Obviously, this man could not have done this alone.

FREEDMAN: Right. I mean, there are still other bad guys out there. The question has justice been done? In my judgment, Fredricka, justice has been done because a sentence of 20 years per victim for Schwerner, for Goodman, for Chaney, is 60 years. So it is essentially a death sentence to Edgar Ray Killen. And so, this was the last major criminal prosecution of the civil rights era.

That doesn't mean, however, that we're not going to see others come forward. There were civil rights trials in federal district court, but this isn't the end of the line. There are still going to be people servicing. But this was the guy the government had to get.

WHITFIELD: So Avery, do you see appeal could follow this?

FREEDMAN: To a certainty there's appeal. But Judge Marcus Gordon who characterizes himself as a crusty old judge, was very, very careful in making the instructions and the way the trial was handled bullet-proof. Meaning, that the likelihood of a reversal on appeal, Fredricka, is virtually nil.

HERMAN: Except for one thing, Fredricka. This specific judge, when he was a prosecutor, actually prosecuted Killen in a case.

FREEDMAN: So what?

HERMAN: And now here he is sitting judging his freedom. I don't know. It's going to be an issue on appeal, guaranteed.

FREEDMAN: I don't buy it.

WHITFIELD; And he said, you know, the judge said that sentencing is always the most difficult part of his job. And that was indeed the case involving this Killen trial. Avery Friedman, Richard Herman, thanks so much, gentlemen. Good talking to you.

Time went by so fast this time, didn't it?

HERMAN: It sure did.

WHITFIELD: All right. Take care.

HERMAN: See you soon.

WHITFIELD: Well, known in artistic circles for her fancy footwork, former prima ballerina turned artistic director, Suzanne Ferrell, takes on a new challenge and she talks to our Bob Novak about it next in "The Novak Zone."

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WHITIFELD: An unlikely pairing in today's "Novak Zone." In Washington political circles, he's known as "The Prince of Darkness." To the world of ballet, she's called "The Elusive Muse." CNN's Robert Novak teams up with former ballerina turned artistic director Suzanne Farrell for this week's edition of "The Novak Zone."

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ROBERT NOVAK, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Welcome to "The Novak Zone." We're at rehearsal room No. 7 at the John F. Kennedy Center for the Performing Arts in Washington, D.C. talking to one of the legendary figures in the world of ballet, Suzanne Farrell, former prima ballerina and now artistic director of the Suzanne Farrell Ballet.

Miss Farrell you are producing George Balanchine's masterpiece "Don Quixote." How has it changed in the 25 years since it was last performed? SUZANNE FARRELL, SUZANNE FARRELL BALLET: I believe that every ballet has to change somewhat because it has to look good and it has to look on the dancers that are performing it now. Otherwise, it becomes a museum piece. So, I look to have it -- to have it have new life. And, yes, you are always loyal to the choreography and to the vision of choreographer, Mr. Balanchine.

NOVAK: Has ballet changed since you were a young girl starting out? Has the style of the dancing or the nature changed?

FARRELL: It does and it doesn't. I love working with dancers, they are a great breed of people. I prefer being in the -- in the background in the studio working with them.

NOVAK: You were 18-years-old and you went from the (INAUDIBLE) Ballet to becoming a star. And rave reviews in the "New York Times," muse of George Balanchine, was that a difficult thing for a young teenager from the Midwest?

FARRELL: It was but I -- I was so focused on dance. I didn't read that much about what people were saying. I just sort of worried whether I'd keep my job. I was trying to, you know, just improve.

I think had I dwelled on the impact of that, it would have been pretty, pretty devastating. So, I -- I'm honored that that happened. Who would have thought that our destinies would come together like that?

NOVAK: You have traveled all over Europe and performed in Europe. Of course, places like Moscow. I think the ballet performers are superstars. Is there a different reaction to the way that ballet is thought of in Europe as compared to the United States? It's more important.

FARRELL: It is more important in those countries. They are stars in their country. They are looked up to. The ballet is on a high priority with the government. And so it -- on the other hand, we perform more than they do. And we have this -- all these other opportunities to tour and things. But I have worked over there. I love dancers all over the world.

NOVAK: Are the young ballerinas, the Suzanne Farrells of the future coming up in unlikely places like Cincinnati where you came from?

FARRELL: Absolutely. I think so. Yes.

And you know, you never know -- it's like finding a little piece -- a little rock and polishing it. And then, of course, it's very important for how they perceive themselves and their attitude. It's not enough just to have a dancer's body, and to have a facility to dance, it's very important to be able to emotionally adjust to what is happening.

We start when we're very young. And so you have to have an incredible discipline not just in terms of taking class, but in terms of putting on those blinders and not letting other things in life distract you.

NOVAK: And now, the big question for Suzanne Farrell -- Miss Farrell, if you had a chance to wave a magic wand and make one change or improvement for the future of ballet in America, what would you do?

FARRELL: I would like to see more opportunities, certainly, for my company to tour. To go to cities. Coming from Cincinnati, we had a ballet company once a year. How is it that I got into a profession that I hardly even knew? There's something I think inside you that makes you want to dance, have to dance. And there are millions of people who have never seen ballet. And it's important to go out there. That's one of the missions of my company is to take wonderful ballets to all parts of the world. It's a great ambassador. It's a great language.

NOVAK: Suzanne Farrell, thank you very much.

FARRELL: Thank you.

NOVAK: And thank you for being in "The Novak Zone."

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WHITFIELD: And you can see more of Bob Novak and the rest of the "CAPITAL GANG" mix it up one more time -- one last time in fact -- on the final installment of the "CAPITAL GANG." And that's tonight at 7:00 Eastern.

And we'll be right back.

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