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CNN Live Saturday

Britain's Multi-Cultural Society Responds to Bombings; Legal Round Table: Karl Rove, Natalee Holloway; Suicide Bomber Kills 58 in Iraq; Key to Lance Armstrong's Success is in His Genes

Aired July 16, 2005 - 14:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

GERRI WILLIS, ANCHOR: Here's what's making news now.
The Mexican government is urging tourists to leave Cancun. Hurricane Emily, now a dangerous Category 4 storm, could menace the Mexican mainland by late Tuesday. An estimated 50,000 tourists are now in Cancun and more than 100,000 further south in an area known as the Mayan Riviera.

A massive suicide attack in a town south of Baghdad today killed at least 18 people. The Associated Press and Reuters report the death toll tops 50. Police say a man blew himself up at a gas station, causing a fuel tanker to explode into a fireball. Dozens of people have suffered burns.

And Vice President Dick Cheney has checked into George Washington University Hospital for the second part of his annual physical. Cheney is expected to undergo a colonoscopy for a screening for vascular disease.

And in London, Scotland Yard has now confirmed the identities of all four suspected bombers in the July 7 terrorist attacks. The death toll in those attacks climbed to 55 overnight, after another victim died in the hospital. Prime Minister Tony Blair today blamed the attacks on what he called an evil ideology and urged Britons to pull the terrorist movement out by its roots.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TONY BLAIR, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: The spirit of our age is one in which the prejudices of the past are put behind us, where our diversity is our strength. It is this which is under attack. Moderates are not moderate through weakness but through strength. And now is the time to show it in defense of our common values.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WILLIS: The London bombings have focused attention on Britain's Muslim minority, particularly the country's Muslim youth. CNN's Zain Verjee has been talking to two young British Muslims in the aftermath of the terrorist attacks.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KHADIJA EL-SHAYYAL, BRITISH MUSLIM: When I'm sitting on the tube what so I know? The person sitting next to me, what are they thinking about me? I can't put my bag next to my feet, because I think people are going to think that I'm going to blow them up. I have to put it on my lap.

ZAIN VERJEE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Taking the subway has become a tense ordeal for 22-year-old Khadija el-Shayyal. Exactly one week after London's terror attacks, I met Khadija on a college campus, where she studies legal and political theory.

She tells me she once thought it unrealistic or sensationalist to think there were Muslim sleeper cells in Britain, poised to attack. Now, sitting in the campus quad, she tells of her struggle to understand why young British Muslims turned to terror.

K. EL-SHAYYAL: When I first think about it, I'm almost at a loss because it is...

VERJEE: She goes on to say, maybe they just felt alienated.

K. EL-SHAYYAL: The fact that a lot of Muslim kids won't drink, when they're with their peers it's like they're often viewed as really strange and really weird. Why? It's just a different life choice.

VERJEE: Her own experiences, she says, have been similar, but she's handled her challenges differently.

K. EL-SHAYYAL: Sometimes, the impression I get with my interactions with people is they just don't fully understand where I'm coming from. That's not something I can blame them for.

VERJEE: Khadija tells me it's unsettling to think that terrorists were Muslims. She pauses for a moment to reflect.

K. EL-SHAYYAL: It's really sad, because they're really vulnerable and they've obviously been manipulated, and that's really sad.

VERJEE: At a Trafalgar Square vigil for victims of the attacks, Khadija meets her friends. Like her, they've come to express their solidarity with their fellow Londoners.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, yes.

VERJEE: Khadija's brother, Jamal, is there, too, helping with the organization of the event by giving out balloons for the grand finale. I ask him, what could have motivated young Muslim men to murder?

JAMAL EL-SHAYYAL, BRITISH MUSLIM: One is ignorance of one's religion. And ignorance of how to register dissent and opposition to policies that they may disagree with.

And the second is social deprivation and economic deprivation. You've got half of Britain's Muslims, one million of them live in London. Twenty-eight percent of them are unemployed. A large number of them don't get into higher education. And then you've got frustration on foreign policy and domestic policy. VERJEE: The day ended with balloons floating beyond Nelson's column, then high above the church. And prayers for peace, and pleas for unity and harmony.

Zain Verjee, CNN, London.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WILLIS: Just ahead, we'll convene our "Legal Round Table" and take up the cases of the CIA leak investigation and the actions by authorities in Aruba trying to find out what happened to missing student Natalee Holloway.

Also ahead, we'll have the latest on Tiger Woods' quest for another British Open title.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WILLIS: Three cases make it to the "Legal Round Table" today: the Karl Rove controversy, the missing teen in Aruba and a death penalty case that gets new life 10 years after the accused was executed.

Our legal eagles, Avery Freeman and Richard Herman, are back. And guys, thanks for being here, first of all. Let's start with Rove.

Avery, I want to start with you. You know, this is a really complicated case. We've been talking about it all day. Should Karl Rove lose his job, and is he in danger of breaking the law here?

AVERY FREEMAN, LAW PROFESSOR: I don't know the answer to the first question, whether or not he should lose his job. But I'll tell you what: there's been a lot of discussion about what laws apply. And there's been a great deal of focus on this 1982 Intelligent Identification -- Identities Protection Act. The fact is that that's going to be a law that Patrick Fitzgerald, the special prosecutor, will have a very, very difficult time making his case.

But where I think the action is, is a law that's been used by the U.S. attorneys' offices around the country, where if a government official converts government information to a nongovernmental purpose, that's been used for leaks. So the only person who really knows right now, Gerri, is Patrick Fitzgerald, and he is working with the grand jury right now.

WILLIS: All right. Richard, let me ask you this, what's your take on this? There's been a lot of talk about this Identity Protection Act from 1982. And apparently the burden of proof very high here. Do you agree?

RICHARD HERMAN, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Very high, Gerri. You know, there's clearly an appearance of impropriety here. And it sure looks like retaliation by the administration against the article that was written bashing the administration. But Karl Rove -- and I'm not a fan of his -- he's not a target. He waived his privileges. He testified at the grand jury. The issue here is did he disclose the identity of the CIA operative? Did he actually disclose it or was it disclosed to him by Novak and by Cooper and by other people? These are questions of fact. There's grand jury testimony. We're only speculating.

But based on all the articles I've read and the current news that's been out there, including the front page of "The New York Times" today, they have no case against Karl Rove.

WILLIS: Well, there's a lot of spin going on here. Avery, do you want to weigh in?

FREEMAN: Well, wait a minute. Wait a minute. First of all, Karl Rove is not a target right now. I think it's very important. Richard knows this when you're dealing with the U.S. attorney's office, when you're dealing with the Department of Justice, this case is in a state of evolution.

So just like Martha Stewart, some of the other high visibility cases, we don't know what some of these high level government officials have said to the FBI, to others. It may very well be that there will be a case. We don't know.

But I think where I'm in agreement is that under the 1982 federal law, Patrick Fitzgerald is going to have a hard time. But this case is far from over, and I think there is substantial jeopardy, including Mr. Rove, who may very well ultimately be a target. I think that's -- that is a possibility here.

WILLIS: Avery, before we get to Richard, I have to ask you, we've been talking today about the possibility that perjury, obstruction of justice -- maybe there's a cover-up going on that could be more important than the leak in the first place. What do you think?

FREEMAN: Well, you know what? Wolf Blitzer dealt with this yesterday. And I think the reality, if you look at American jurisprudential history and look at the behavior of high level officials who really weren't involved in criminal behavior, per se, what happens is that where there's a cover-up, where there's obstruction, that's where these guys get in trouble.

Again, we're too early. It would be unfair to paint that picture with Karl Rove. But let me tell you something, and I bet you Richard agrees on this, I think there is a possibility of that.

WILLIS: Richard, I have to ask you, is this not politics as usual? Some people at least think that, you know, this is just the usual inside the Beltway kind of conversation.

HERMAN: That's exactly what it is, Gerri. Karl Rove was credited with orchestrating President Bush's victory the second time around. The Democrats are still licking their wounds from that. They thought they had a real shot to take the presidency away. And he's a high target for the Democrats.

This is political partisanship. Don't bite into that bait there, Gerri. Please.

WILLIS: Go ahead.

FREEMAN: In all fairness -- wait, in all fairness, Fitzgerald was appointed in late 2003, when the White House made very clear that it was not going to tolerate leaks.

And Patrick Fitzgerald is as good as it gets from the Department of Justice. He is nonpartisan. He's a straight shooter.

So whether or not it's Beltway politics or not, I think you've got a special prosecutor who means business, and he doesn't care if Karl Rove is a Republican or a Democrat. He's going to be looking at the evidence and going to the grand jury with that.

HERMAN: I'll tell you one other thing, Gerri, you know, prior to the scandal, President Bush's credibility ratings were at 41, which has been the lowest since his presidency. And that's prior to this scandal. Not going to enhance it.

WILLIS: Right. Well, we'll leave the political discussion for another day and stick to the legal facts, if we can.

HERMAN: Right.

WILLIS: I do want to get us to this Aruba investigation. And you know, a big controversy now, really, on the progress there, why it's taking so long. What's going on? Richard, you want to weigh in?

HERMAN: Well, Gerri, it's an absolute disaster and disgrace. The Aruba authorities have blown this investigation by not acting within the first 10 days. They've lost any DNA evidence they could have obtained then.

They have absolutely no case against this Joran Van Der Sloot, other than 15 different versions of a story that he told. There's no way they're going to prosecute him on that. And if they do, there's no way they're going to convict him. We don't even know if there's been a homicide. There's no evidence to suggest that right now. We just -- it's an abomination in Aruba.

WILLIS: Avery?

FREEMAN: Oh, no. Let me tell you something. First of all, the only way that Richard can really know that or anyone can know that is if we knew what was going on within the judicial system there.

And you know what? Here's the big problem, Gerri. We as Americans are used to open courtrooms. We're dealing with the law of the Netherlands. We're dealing with Dutch law. And every major legal proceeding right now has been done in secret.

So to the extent that there is evidence there, we don't know about it. I'm in agreement that there could have been earlier action...

WILLIS: At the bond hearings.

FREEMAN: The government could have invited the U.S. in, but it did not. We'll have to see.

HERMAN: Avery, they have to disclose the evidence at these hearings. They have disclosed no new evidence in this case. They have absolutely nothing. This poor Holloway family is going to end up leaving that island without a prosecution or a conviction against this Van Der Sloot, who early on disclosed to the authorities that he actually buried Natalee. But it's an absolute disgrace. Horrible.

FREEMAN: And you don't think that that creates reasonable suspicion? I mean, goodness...

HERMAN: They need beyond reasonable doubt.

FREEMAN: This case -- this case -- this case is not over.

HERMAN: They need -- they need beyond reasonable doubt to convict. There is no corroborating DNA or other type of evidence to show a homicide here.

WILLIS: All right. But this segment is over, you two. We really appreciate your talking with us, Avery Freeman, Richard Herman. Thank you so much for joining us and giving us your legal words of wisdom. We appreciate it.

HERMAN: Thank you, Gerri.

FREEMAN: Nice to see you, Gerri. Take care.

WILLIS: We have Aneesh Raman right now with the latest on the mosque attack in Baghdad -- Aneesh.

ANEESH RAMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Gerri, good afternoon.

We're getting word of a massive suicide bombing that took place now some two hours ago south of the capital city in the town of Musai (ph). The casualty numbers are substantive, at least 58 people have been killed, some 68 -- sorry, 86 other people wounded.

The suicide bomber evidently detonating in a fuel truck in the city center near the gas station. All of that added into the explosion. Gas here an enormous issue. Long lines of cars would have been waiting outside to try and get fuel.

We're also told that right nearby was an apartment complex. That is now destroyed entirely. The police saying it is likely all the residents there were killed in this blast.

So again this attack taking place just about two hours ago. A suicide bomber using a fuel tank in the city center of Musai (ph), just south of Baghdad, killing now at least 58 people, some 86 others wounded -- Gerri.

WILLIS: Aneesh Raman, thank you for that report. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WILLIS: Tiger Woods is keeping a firm grip on his lead at the British Open. Woods shot 71 in today's third round, putting him at 12 under par. But Spain's Jose Maria Olazabal is in striking distance, two back, finishing up with a 68 for 10 under.

It's all Lance in the Tour De France. While six-time champion Lance Armstrong came in second in today's 14th stage, he still extended his overall lead over his nearest challenger in today's grueling 137-mile stretch. Armstrong and other racers scaled the Pyrenees. The brutal trek took place under a scorching sun.

When the Tour De France kicks off each year, Lance Armstrong is always a force to be reckoned with. After all, he's won the race six times. But how does he do it? And what makes Armstrong so unbeatable? For answers, from CNN senior medical correspondent, Dr. Sanjay Gupta next.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): He's possibly the best endurance athlete in the world. Most of us know Lance Armstrong's name, but few know how he does it. It all starts with his genes.

EDWARD COYLE, UNIVERSITY OF TEXAS: With Lance, we found that in the untrained state, he would be about as fit as an average person who trained as hard as he could. Ever. So Lance's lowest level is the level that a normal person could achieve with year and years of intense training.

GUPTA: Edward Coyle is director of the human performance lab at the University of Texas in Austin. World record holders, Olympic medalists and promising athletes all come here to increase their performance. At the young age of 21, Lance Armstrong was one of them. Coyle evaluated his physiology regularly for seven years.

COYLE: We found that, even at a young age, because of his intense training, he had a big engine, a big heart, and was able to consume large amounts of oxygen. Probably less than one percent of the population would have as much of a genetic head start as Armstrong has.

GUPTA: Lance Armstrong's physiology characteristics are nothing short of astounding.

His heart, it can pump nine gallons of blood per minute, working at its hardest, compared to only five gallons per minute for the average person. In one minute of maximum exertion, Armstrong's heart can beat twice that of a normal person.

His lungs, he gets almost double the amount of oxygen out of every breath that a healthy 20-year-old would. Everyone takes in the same breath, but Armstrong uses his two times more efficiently. He also has more red blood cells to deliver oxygen to his body, meaning he can breathe better at higher altitudes. And that's a key in the treacherous Pyrenees and Alps mountains along the route of the Tour De France.

His muscles, Lance's muscles produced less lactic acid than most people, which means his muscles can go longer and harder without major fatigue.

COYLE: An average person when going to exhaustion would have to stay stopped or wouldn't be able to move for, you know, for 10, 15 minutes. Well, Armstrong is able to recover within just a couple of minutes, within one or two, and then go right back up to maximum.

You know, that's why you'll see him repeatedly trying to break away and then eventually succeeding in breaking away from the entire pack of riders in the Tour De France.

GUPTA: While Lance may have the genetics and conditioning of a world class athlete, he has also had cancer lingering in his genes. He was diagnosed with the disease before ever winning the Tour De France.

COYLE: Lance visited the laboratory eight months after finishing chemo, and, essentially, we found nothing wrong with his body. And that really helped him in giving him the confidence that he could pick up right where he left off.

GUPTA: All of this can ultimately make many people think Armstrong is super human.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The guy is a super hero.

GUPTA: That's a question his mother has heard many times before.

LINDA ARMSTRONG KELLY, LANCE ARMSTRONG'S MOTHER: Is Lance super human? That's a question everyone has asked. He didn't get that way sitting on the couch eating potato chips. So lots of hard work, a lot of dedication.

GUPTA: In fact, Armstrong trains at least six hours a day. And for the Tour De France, which spans less than four weeks, he begins training eight months before its July start date.

LANCE ARMSTRONG, CYCLING CHAMPION: What if I keep going?

GUPTA: That's an average of 450 miles per week, a distance of about halfway around the globe pedaled during the season of training. All that for what would be seven straight Tour wins.

ARMSTRONG: Seven is different than one or different than three or different than six. It's really -- it's not a record. It's not -- it would be, I guess, the continuant of a record or it would be historic in some sense. But it didn't hold -- it doesn't hold the cache that six did.

What's important is that I still love what I do. I still -- I still go out and kill myself on six-hour bike rides.

GUPTA: From every beat to every breath, Lance Armstrong has certainly had a genetic head start. But at 33, it's his training and his inherent physiology that will carry him to this year's finishing line.

Dr. Sanjay Gupta, CNN, reporting.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WILLIS: Still ahead, thousands are jamming bookstores to buy the newest Harry Potter book. That story, plus the hour's other headlines, when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WILLIS: London, Beijing, Cedar Rapids, no matter where you go, Harry Potter fans are jamming bookstores everywhere today for a copy of "The Half-Blood Prince."

The frenzy started a minute past midnight when the sixth installation of the series went on sale. People who have already made it through the book describe it as darker, and one reviewer says you'll need a hanky because one of the major characters dies.

Author J.K. Rowling made a midnight appearance at a Scottish castle to read passages to 70 kids. The Harry Potter books have made her among the world's richest authors, and there is still the seventh and final installment to come.

There's much more ahead on CNN SATURDAY. At the top of the hour, a CNN special, "WINNING THE WAR ON TERROR." At 4 on CNN LIVE SATURDAY, we'll hear from the photographer who shot the dramatic video of a tornado in Florida. At 5, on "PEOPLE IN THE NEWS," British Prime Minister Tony Blair and the challenges he faces leading his nation during a time of terror attacks.

I'm Gerri Willis at the CNN Center in Atlanta. More news at the bottom (sic) of the hour. But first, this hurricane update.

ANNOUNCER: CNN, your hurricane headquarters.

BONNIE SCHNEIDER, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Good afternoon, everyone. I'm meteorologist Bonnie Schneider in the CNN Weather Center. We're tracking Hurricane Emily.

Right now this storm is very powerful. We have maximum winds at 155 miles per hour. That's very close to becoming a Category 5 storm. And if that were to happen, this will be first Category 5 we've ever seen for the month of July. Hasn't happened yet. But just wanted to let you know that it's definitely a possibility, especially since the reconnaissance planes that have flown into Emily say at times we may see those wind gusts fluctuate to above 155, and that would bring it to Category 5 strength. Right now the storm is Category 4.

But let's take a closer look at the satellite perspective. A well defined eye as the storm passes to the south of Jamaica. And remember, Jamaica is a very mountainous island. So as this energy comes across the island, it interacts with the mountains.

And we're seeing just a deluge of rain. Thunderstorms, lots and lots of downpours, especially in those mountainous regions. In fact, we could get up to 15 inches of rain in some areas because of the mountains, because of interacting with the storm.

So a powerful storm, not making a direct hit on Jamaica, skirting it to the south, but still causing enough of a problem that we're going see tropical storm force winds and quite a bit of precipitation, as well.

The next stop for the storm certainly is the Cayman Islands.

Now if the storm does become, indeed, a Category 5, that means winds will exceed 155 miles per hour. And actually, \we're likely to see storm surge very high.

The good news is right now Emily is not affecting a land mass with a direct hit. That's going to change. The storm is likely to make contact with the Yucatan Peninsula in the morning on Monday.

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