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CNN Live Saturday

Tunisair Fight Crashes Near Italy; Russian Submarine Trapped Underwater; Voter Rights Act; Discovery Preparing for Return

Aired August 06, 2005 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

GERRI WILLIS, CNN ANCHOR: It is a race against time in the Pacific Ocean. Seven Russian sailors trapped in a minisubmarine 625 feet below surface. We're live with the unfolding details.
Also, shuttle astronauts take the next step in preparing for their return to Earth. We'll have a live update.

And marking an important event in history, this hour, how the passage of the Voting Rights Act, 40 years ago, changed the political landscape.

Welcome to CNN LIVE SATURDAY, I'm Gerri Willis. We have a busy hour ahead, first now, the news.

A dramatic rescue operation underway off the coast of Sicily after a Tunisair flight went down in the sea. Italian media are reporting that 24 people have been rescued, five others are dead. Authorities say the plane with 39 people on board went down about 19 miles north of Palermo. A live report is just ahead.

And American Marines and Iraqi troops are putting the heat on insurgents and foreign fighters in western Iraq. A new offensive in Anbar Province operation "Quick Strike" is now in its fourth day.

Earlier this week, nearly two dozen U.S. Marines were killed in the region.

Coastal areas prone to hurricanes might want to batten down the hatches. A noted hurricane researcher has revised its forecast upward. William Gray says the chances are now eight in 10, that's eight in 10 that a major hurricane will strike the United States within the next four months. Gray predicts 12 more named storms and six more hurricanes for the rest of Atlantic season and that runs through November. He says two of those hurricanes will be major.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN Breaking News.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WILLIS: And an update to our Breaking News from Sicily. It involves a plane crash and rescue efforts. A Tunisair flight reportedly having engine trouble crashed off the coast of Sicily after trying to make an emergency landing in Palermo. Now there were 39 people on board. Rescuers pulled several survivors from the water. Joining with us now the details, Alessio Vinci Kathleen Koch John Zarrella Karina Chobanyan Bruce Morton Walter Rodgers London's transit system Voting Right shuttle "Discovery" by telephone.

Alessio, what do you know?

ALESSIO VINCI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well Gerri, we do know at this time is that, quote, "a lot of people have been rescued," but the Italian aviation officials are not putting a number to how many people they managed to take out of the plane alive. We understand from the time -- as many as 24, out of the 39, were on board at the time of the landing -- the crash landing at sea, managed to rescue, and the Italian media also reporting that a total of five people among the fatalities of this crash.

We understand that at around 4:20 p.m. local time the plane flying from the town of Bari in southern Italy all the way to Djerba reported first an engine problem -- reported that engine problem to the traffic control tower in Palermo and demanded the authorization to emergency -- to perform emergency landing at that airport. But we understand that the plane did not make it all the way to the mainland and the pilot instead opted to do a controlled landing at sea where -- which happened 20 minutes after the first SOS was sent to the air traffic control tower. The rescue operation is still underway, but it does appear that a significant number of people have been rescued, meaning perhaps that the pilot managed to safely land the plane at sea and the plane was still floating until a vast majority -- a sizable number of passengers managed to leave the aircraft -- Gerri.

WILLIS: Alessio, thank you for those details.

The other major story unfolding at this hour, seven Russian sailors remain trapped in a submarine in the bottom of the Pacific Ocean as, international efforts to rescue them continues. Now, there their minisub is more than 600 feet down off Russia's east coast. U.S., Britain and Japan are all sending personnel and equipment to help the Russian navy. Kathleen Koch is at Pentagon with the latest efforts to reach the crew -- Kathleen.

KATHLEEN KOCH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Gerri, as all those assets from both the U.S., Great Britain, and Japan make the area to the Russians, they're trying one final time to untangle that minisub on their own. According to the "Associate Press" a Russian navy spokesman, Captain Igor Dygalo, says what they've done is crews looped come cables underneath what he called an underwater antenna system that has been ensnaring that vehicle since Thursday. Apparently what they're trying to do is either to raise the sub entirely to the surface on their own or at least bring it up to a depth where the sailors could swim out safely.

Now, what you're seeing there is one set of -- several assets headed to the area. Those are atmospheric diving system suits that the Navy has flown to Russia. They've just landed there on the east coast of Russia. And what they enable divers to do is to go down to a thousand feet, but what is on the way right now, we heard, left an hour ago from the port and making its way to the scene where the sailors are trapped is something called a "Scorpio." It's a British unmanned submarine. The U.S. has also sent two of its own "Scorpios." They're about an hour behind the British.

Now, we're told by the U.S. Navy that there's also a Navy scuba team that is with the British "Scorpio" and they're expecting it could take three to six hours to arrive at that spot Beryozovaya Bay where the sailors are trapped because they say seas are rough in the area right now. So, they're saying the active phase of the rescue could begin around 4:00 today, again, If everything comes into place -- falls into place. These "Scorpios" there that you see, they have lights, they have cameras and they have remote manipulator arms so that they can easily grasp things and cut cables as thick as one inch. So that's indeed something they need in order to free the submarine.

Finally one last asset, there you see it, the "Deep Drone 8,000." That left Andrew's Air Force base, south of Washington, yesterday. It hasn't yet arrived in Russia, but it is a much larger vehicle, about twice the size of the "Scorpios," can go down as deep as 8,000 feet and has remote manipulator arms and one thing that's different is it has special target locater sonar in case anyone -- the Russians, the Americans, or the British have difficulty in locating the trapped sub -- Gerri.

WILLIS: Kathleen, thank you very much for that report. You'll want that to stay with us to keep up on all of the details about this story.

Another group of travelers started making their way home. The shuttle "Discovery" detached from the international space station just this morning. Now, that's the first step in the shuttle's planned return to earth on Monday. John Zarrella is at the Johnson Space Center in Houston with this live update -- John.

JOHN ZARRELLA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi Gerri, yeah, the bags are packed. And actually, right now they're preparing for their sleep period which will last seven or eight hours. And the next day and a half or so will be spent, for the most part, preparing for re-entry into the earth's atmosphere, early, early Monday morning. They did undock early this morning from the International Space Station so the shuttle "Discovery" is right now a free flying vehicle over the -- overhead and at one point in fact the Hubbell Space Telescope, the space station, and the shuttle all appeared in conjunction with each other. So, it was quite a spectacular view according to the NASA officials here. You can see that undocking procedure going on right there.

Now, again, as I mentioned, everything now points towards the landing at 4:47 a.m. Eastern time, on Monday morning at the Kennedy Space Center, the weather appears to be good. We have a couple of animation looks at where the "Discovery" will be heading on its flight path. You see there, it actually will come over central America, on the first attempt at Orbit 201 and could land from Costa Rica, Nicaragua, passing over Havana, Cuba, and then making its way up the west coast of Florida over Naples, and then inland over Lake Okeechobee and finally to the landing at the Kennedy Space Center.

If they don't make it on the first attempt for whatever reason they have to waive off on Orbit 202, the landing will be more across the Gulf of Mexico, coming across the Bay of Campeche, over Progresso, Mexico, then coming straight across right over Tampa Bay and then into the Kennedy Space Center. Two opportunities there for the people in Florida who get a look at "Discovery." If you want to get up in the wee hours of the morning on Monday morning at 4:00 a.m., go outside and perhaps see "Discovery" shooting overhead as it heads towards that landing at the Kennedy space center.

Again, right now Gerri, everything looks good the vehicle, NASA officials say, is in excellent shape, and the weather at the Kennedy Space Center, at least at this point, is expected to be pretty good for that morning landing -- Gerri.

WILLIS: John, we look forward to that. It must be some sight seeing that come in. Thanks that report.

ZARRELLA: Yes, indeed.

WILLIS: Tomorrow be sure to check out "CNN Sunday morning." CNN will have an in interview with the "Discovery" crew. A special edition of CNN "Daybreak" with Carol Costello will airs Monday morning at 4:00 eastern. CNN will have live coverage of the shuttle "Discovery" landing.

And coming up, it has been 40 years since the Voting Rights Act was passed, but the fight has not ended. Find out why marchers are taking to the streets in Atlanta.

And a grim moment in Japan is marked by solemn ceremonies. Just ahead, we'll hear from the American flight crew whose role, 60 years ago, changed the world.

And no day at the beach for many in Israel as a potentially violent showdown grows ever closer.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WILLIS: We're back now with the latest on what Russian media is saying about efforts to save a trapped submarine crew.

CNN producer, Karina Chobanyan is with us -- Karina.

KARINA CHOBANYAN, CNN PRODUCER: Thank you Gerri. We've been monitoring Russian media, Russian wires, Russian TV and here's the latest. Less than an hour ago, a Russian ship with the British "Scorpio" equipment on board has left the Petropavlovsk-Kamchatsky. They expect it to arrive to the site where the submarine is in about three or four hour and start the active phase of the rescue. But meanwhile, what they've been doing while they're waiting for the equipment to get to the site they've been trying to pull it and to pull it to shallow waters.

Right now what you're looking at is the chart that the Russian TV released, showing the submarine and the fishing net why it's entangled. To your right side is the back of the submarine. They think the way it got entangled is while it was trying to make a turn and managed to got worse from that point on. They've been trying to lift it but the thing is, there are 60 ton anchors and they're way too heavy for the submarine to be lifted. So basically, it still remains about 600 feet underwater. They're trying to lift it a little bit, for the divers to get in and they're saying that if they manage to lift it with a cable, right now they have cables looped underneath the sub, if they manage to lift it, at least 200 feet, they will -- the divers will be able to get in and maybe cut off the fishing net and let it release it that way.

But so far what we know is that the help is on the way. British and American equipment and about three or four hours they are planning to start the active phase of the rescue mission. It's been raining all day but they're trying, they're not stopping their attempts. The Russian Defense Minister Sergei Ivanov is on his way to Petropavlovsk- Kamchatsky and he will be overseeing the operation.

Also, the Russians are the ones who are planning the rescue mission. They're planning what was -- what will be going on, but the Americans and the British rescuers will be helping according to this plan. And one more thing that I would like to tell you is they are saying there is enough air to last through today and through tomorrow. The Russians are confident that they're going to manage and finish the rescue by the time they reach this critical point. Although the British rescuers were saying that they know they can help, technically, but are concerned about time. And the Russian reporters who observed the civilians just coming to the port, watching the rescue, talking to the officials they only have one message for them, "don't be late" -- Gerri.

WILLIS: Karina, thank you so much for that report. We'll be following the story all day long.

CHOBANYAN: Thank you.

WILLIS: Marchers are on the streets of Atlanta at this hour marking 40 years since the civil rights act became law. Activists are calling on President Bush to reauthorize key provisions of the act that are due to expire in 2007. One requires federal approval for redistricting in certain states. On CNN this morning, the reverend Jesse Jackson urged the president to get on board.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REV. JESSE JACKSON, RAINBOW PUSH COALITION: Meet with us on this matter. We want hearing. Let's have hearings to document the need for reauthorization so we can pass the test of strict scrutiny and narrow it. We want to take the test of strict scrutiny and narrower tailoring.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WILLIS: The Voting Right changed not only the ballot box but the whole face of American politics. Our national correspondent, Bruce Morton looks back.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) BRUCE MORTON, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In 1960s America, black and white Americans marched to make sure southern blacks had the right to vote. It took beatings to make sure southern blacks could vote. In Philadelphia, Mississippi, three civil rights workers, two white, one black were murdered, seeking that right. Earlier this summer, 80-year-old ex-Klansman, Edgar Ray Killen, was sentenced to 60 years in prison for the manslaughter of those three young men. And 40 years ago this weekend, President Lyndon Johnson signed the Voting Rights Act of 1965.

REP. JOHN LEWIS (D), GEORGIA: We were black, yes. We were denied, yes. But we were Americans. And we have faith that we can make the constitution work.

MORTON: Reporter: it did. When congress passed the act, there were six blacks among its 435 house members, all from northern cities. Today there are 42. Democratic John Conyers represented the Detroit district then and now.

JOHN CONYERS (D), MICHIGAN: It has worked. And it has done what we wanted to do. But we also have a few decisions that we have to make that we have to correct a few court decisions that have scrambled it up a bit. That's part of extending the provisions and strengthening the Voter Rights Act of 1965.

MORTON: Under the act, certain states and precincts, mostly in the south, must get federal clearance before changing voting procedures, moving a polling place, for instance. Localities that have a lot of non-English speakers must provide ballots in other languages. And the federal government can send election examiners to make sure voters aren't frightened away from the polls. The act change voting. There are still complaints but not the wholesale disenfranchisement of blacks that there was earlier. And there have been political changes too, white switching parties, republicans favoring majority black districts because they'll gain white votes in the districts adjoining the majority black ones.

STUART ROTHENBERG, ROTHENBERG POLITICAL REPORT: As blacks became enfranchised and began to participate in large numbers and have an impact on the Democratic Party, white southerners decided they would look for a different party and found one in the Republican Party. So the enfranchisement of blacks fundamentally changed over a 20, 30 year period the political landscape in the South and nationally as republicans became the dominant party of white southerners.

MORTON: White democrats can still win in the south but only with black support. John Edwards won a North Carolina senate seat in 1988 with 41 percent of the vote, but 91 percent of the black vote, for instance. And extending the act's enforcement provisions which ex- near 2007, that's been controversial in the past, but now with both parties courting minority votes, it may be very easy.

Bruce Morton, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WILLIS: And coming up, in Japan, remembering a day that changed the world.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WILLIS: Iran says it will reject a European plan in a dispute over its nuclear program. Iran's foreign minister says the offer does not include his country's right to enrich uranium. Enriched uranium can be used to produce nuclear weapons. The deal insists that Iran refrain from developing nuclear arms.

More than 50,000 people gathered this morning in Hiroshima, Japan. They took part in a moment of silence, broken by the ring of a bronze bell. Sixty years ago today, the U.S. dropped an atomic bomb that exploded over the city, nearly 140,000 people were killed. Three days later, the U.S. Bombed Nagasaki. Both bombings helped quickly end World War II in the pacific.

Looking back on the attacks, most Americans are confident the U.S. did the right thing by dropping the bombs. A Gallup Poll shows 57 percent approve the use after atomic weapons at 80 percent say the attacks saved American lives by avoiding the need of a land invasion in Japan.

And coming up, the search for suspects continues in the wake of the London bombings. Find out how London commuters were coping after a month of the first attack.

And, efforts underway to rebuild Iraq. What role should U.S. play and how close are Iraqis to creating their version of a democracy.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WILLIS: "Now in the News," a plane crashes off the coast of Sicily. The Tunisair flight had 39 people on board and was trying to make an emergency landing at Palermo when it went into the Mediterranean Sea. Italian media reports at least 10 people have died while 19 others have been rescued, another 10 are missing.

And another rescue attempt is under way, this one in the pacific. Russian crews are trying to lift a stranded minisubmarine off the ocean floor. Now, the sub is about 625 feet under the surface with seven sailors inside. The Russians want to pull the sub up to a depth where divers can reach it.

The space shuttle "Discovery" takes its first step for returning to earth this morning by undocking from the International Space Station. NASA manager admits some anxiety about Monday's planned re- entry. The space agency decided against another spacewalk to fix a torn thermal blanket on the shuttle. Tests showed the blanket poses little or no risk.

And in London, three more men are now in custody as Scotland Yard continues it's wide ranging terror investigation. The suspects are accused of withholding investigation in connection with the July 21 attempted bombings in the British capital. All three are from Brighton in southern England. They were arrested last Sunday and officially charged yesterday.

One month ago today, terrorists were just hours away from carrying out the July 7 bombings on London's transit system. The blast killed 52 people, plus the four bombers and they've had a big impact on the cities famed tube. Here's CNN international correspondent, Walter Rodgers.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

WALTER RODGERS, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): London's Brussels square underground station. Twenty-five people were killed by a suicide bomber right here at this stop July 7. The bombs that day, three on the underground, one on a bus, changed the way Londoners see their beloved tube and those who ride it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It is a weird situation because, you know, you're on the train and trying to do your own thing, but, you know, the whole paranoia is still creeping in.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There is a definite tension. It's not -- I mean, it's not so much the police are there, it's just simile that the individuals look at each other more closely.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: People are more stressed when there's a noise they don't know; everybody looks around for what's that?

RODGERS: Four weeks to date after the first bombing, which like the attempted bombing staged on the 21st, also a Thursday, 6,000 police were out in force, unprecedented, the largest security operation here since World War II, and a bitter truth remains.

ANDY TROTTER, BRITISH TRANSPORT POLICE: Of course it could happen again. London is at a high level of alert it's four weeks on from that first attack, but we have got every resource we can possibly find out here on the underground and the overground system today, all the police forces of London are all working together to keep London safe.

RODGERS: Still, the numbers of those using the subway in London has dropped 30 percent since the July bombings, according to the transport authority.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I would not use the underground at all. No.

RODGERS (ON CAMERA): Not safe?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don't think so.

RODGERS: You're not reassured by all those police you see?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Not really, no. No, there's too many people down there, it's too crowded, too -- I just wouldn't feel safe at all.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Just more anxious riding the tube. It hasn't changed what I... RODGERS: How does that anxiety manifest itself?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, I can't wait to get off.

RODGERS: There are more than seven million people in the London area, the majority are dependent on public transportation. Three million use The Underground, the tube each day, most because they have no other choice.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It is scary being down there, but, you know, you got to live with it.

RODGERS: And when passengers emerge from the confines of the underground, emerge from the noise and the darkness and the anxiety --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There say moment you think, I'm seeing daylight again and I'm lucky.

RODGERS: Walter Rodgers, CNN, London.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GERRI WILLIS, CNN ANCHOR, CNN SATURDAY: Coming up, how soon can Iraqis create a constitution and what does that mean for U.S. soldiers serving in Iraq? We'll examine those questions just ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WILLIS: A car bomb in Baghdad wounded three Iraqis today. The blast was apparently meant for a passing U.S. military convoy. In the western Iraqi desert, three U.S. -- pardon me, U.S. Marines and Iraqi soldiers are carrying out another day of raids against insurgents. The Marines discovered three cars filled with bombs and two roadside explosives. All were safely destroyed in controlled explosions.

Bloodshed dominates the news of Iraq. For many citizens, daily life focuses on rebuilding their country. Senior Baghdad Correspondent Jane Arraf talked with one man who is making that happen.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JANE ARRAF, CNN SR. BAGHDAD CORRESPONDENT (voice over): For Iraqi businessman Namir Al-Akabi and his work workers, this is Jihad, a sacred struggle to rebuild their country, despite the threats of violence.

NAMIR AL-AKABI, IRAQI BUSINESSMAN: This is Jihad for us. This is Iraqi, the real jihad for us to rebuild our company. Jihad, they have it wrong, upside down. Jihad is not to kill innocent people. Jihad is not to kill an engineer who works on a project that is financed by so and so. Jihad is, in my opinion, Jihad is hard work in the sun, 10, 12 hours a day, OK? And sweating and then coming up with a result with something that would benefit Iraq.

ARRAF: Namir and his company, Almco, are an Iraqi success story. Raised in Kuwait and living in London, he returned two weeks after Baghdad fell. He started with the staff of five and a $500 contract to deliver fuel. Now his company has 2,000 Iraqis on the payroll and 100s of millions of dollars in contracts.

This project is funded by the U.S. government. It will bring clean water to the 2 million people of Sadr City. Every single worker here from the engineers to the laborers is Iraqi. Samir, a Shia Muslim, whose wife is a Sunni Kurd, says he doesn't know what religion most of his engineers are. As for the laborers, he makes a point of hiring them from the surrounding communities. They seem proud to be working here.

HASSAN ABID KHALAF (through translator): It is an honor for us to work for Sadr City. It is a great honor. We want to work day and night for the sake of this city.

ARRAF: They're paid better than average wages. And unskilled laborers get about $10 a day, skilled ones up to $40. They all have safety equipment, hard hats and proper shoes. The opportunities here have changed Amir's life and that of his workers.

Success hasn't come without a cost. Four of Namir's employees, one of them a relative, were killed in an ambush by 20 gunmen on the road from Taji (ph), north of Baghdad last year.

AL-AKABI: We were not armed. So I actually could hear them going back and single shots, and then another one and another one. It is like they just don't think so brave. In my opinion, this is the lowest of the cowards, you know. When you kill an unarmed injured man, you can't get any lower than that.

ARRAF: He held a meeting with all his employees to see if they wanted to keep working. They did.

AL-AKABI: I could have packed my bags and left the country. I'm lucky. I can work in other countries. I made a little money. I can live well in other countries. But that's what the terrorists want. If people like me leave Iraq, then they won. This is part of them winning. This is part of them winning. This I will not allow. We have to not lose sight of the road we have taken. We have to -- we have to keep them going on that road, the road of freedom of Iraq and freedom and democracy.

ARRAF: Jane Arraf, CNN, Baghdad.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WILLIS: Iraq, of course, facing critical challenges in the days ahead. Tomorrow, political leaders hold a summit to try to break a deadlock on a constitution. Now this document which leads to new elections in December is supposed to be done by August 15th. But the big wild card is the insurgency. So let's go to Washington Talk with Jenny Backus, a Democratic consultant, and Eleana Gordon, she's with the Foundation for the Defense of Democracies.

Welcome to both of you.

JENNY BACKUS, DEMOCRATIC CONSULTANT: Thank you.

ELEANA GORDON, FDN. FOR DEFENSE OF DEMOCRACIES: Thank you.

WILLIS: Ellie, let's start with you, how likely is it we'll meet this deadline?

GORDON: It seems like we -- they will meet the deadline but what they probably will do is find ambiguous language that doesn't resolve the key issues -- that are being debated. Really, it's two main issues: federalism and the role of Islam in Iraq.

And the signs that we're seeing is that they are going to find language where everyone is going to feel they have the opportunity to keep the debate going after the constitution. So I suspect that there will be language calling for decentralization, but maybe not resolving all the details of the form it will take. And similarly there will probably be language like in the current interim constitution that both recognizes Islam, but also recognizes other sources for the constitution.

WILLIS: Jenny, do you agree? Can we meet this August 15th deadline?

BACKUS: I think Eleana raises a good point there. There probably will be something that comes out of this deadline. But my concern, I think, most people's concern who have got friends and loved ones over there, is will this constitution provide a means for peacefully resolving issues between the different factions in Iraq?

And if it -- and the other thing is that we need to be very careful about making this sort of a big transformative event. We heard a lot from the administration that, you know, the fall of Baghdad, the elections, all of these things would change the course. It doesn't look like that. The insurgency has remained pretty consistent throughout there.

So the goal here inside of the -- inside of these discussions is to make sure that is there places where there could be peaceful resolution of things and are we just pushing everything off for another day, which won't help anybody.

WILLIS: Eleana, we're talking about the insurgency now and clearly, you know, seems like we have ramped up violence across the country here. What is going to happen in the next couple of weeks? Will we see more violence and could it keep the constitution from becoming a reality?

GORDON: When I think of the insurgency, I really think of two different forces that are driving it. One is the Sunni nationalist force that really doesn't like the fact that they're losing power. And they are using violence to show their political muscle, which they don't have in votes.

And then the other factor in the insurgency is really the Islamists, like Zarqawi, who are not Iraqi, who come from outside. They represent a very small proportion of the insurgents, maybe about 5 percent are estimates, but they account for the majority of the bloody attacks killing civilians. The really horrendous attacks that are crippling the Iraqi people are the foreigners account for that.

My prediction, or what I suspect, is that the foreign insurgency will continue until the end. This is -- they will just keep escalating and try to thwart this. The nationalist element, I believe what is going to happen is they will probably flex their muscle with more violence in the next few weeks. But when it comes to the elections in the October 15 referendum, I they will think they will make the calculation that this time they're better off participating in the political process.

That is the only way for them to be present in representative numbers in the political process. And at that point, I think we'll see the insurgency begin to divide. I'm not optimistic that we're going to see the violence go down anytime soon. And I agree with Jenny, we should not see this as a major transformative event that will be the end. These are determined fighters. But the process is moving. It is moving.

WILLIS: Jenny, talking about the Sunnis. There has been an effort to bring them into this process to get their voice heard as well. Is that going to be enough?

BACKUS: I think now -- the question is also the timing on when we brought the Sunnis in. There was lots of talk from this administration and the country and across the world about the elections being a success. I know all of us were touched with those photos, especially that you guys provided, of the elections. There was not a lot of work to get the Sunnis involved then. I think unfortunately now we've been paying that price.

There have been some encouraging signs coming out of Sistani and others to say we need to get more Sunnis involved, but it has to be a real sharing of things. I think we have run into a problem because when we talk about the autonomy that Eleana talked about earlier, that's a concern for Sunnis because they feel like the revenues from oil dollars are not in the provinces where they are. They're losing some of those revenues to rebuild the country.

I do think the one thing that we can all think about with the violence is there are some things that the Americans need to do, too. We're in a very difficult position now, where we are trying to be the negotiators or the judge of a bunch of groups, none of whom really trust us because of the -- because we invaded the country. That's a difficult position to be in.

The other position we have, I don't think this administration has had a plan about what we're doing to help reduce the insurgency. We're rushing into things late. We're coming now work on the borders and the Marines are fighting bravely. And we're so proud of all of the work that the troops are doing.

But we're coming late to things. We're late to reporting back to Congress about training of Iraqi troops; 800 Marines are fighting in western Iraq now, 200 Iraqis. We need to flip those numbers. WILLIS: Eleana, to Jenny's point here, have we got ourselves in an almost impossible position of trying to negotiate the peace?

GORDON: I'm not sure I see where Jenny is coming from on that. I would argue that with the Sunnis, actually we have to be very careful to let them know that violence is not a way for them to gain a voice. They had every opportunity to participate in the elections. They decided to boycott it. I think Sistani and the Kurds have made clear they're trying to reach out to them.

But the Sunni leadership is playing two cards right now. They're in the process, but at the same time they're using violence to thwart it. That will not work. When they make calls Iraq has to be an Arab country, they're sending a clear signal to the Kurds that they don't want to accept the diversity of Iraq. And democratic Iraq will not emerge unless all religious and ethnic groups recognize the diversity, which Sistani is recognizing. I think that's a positive development.

The Sunnis need to be brought in by understanding that there is only one path forward. It is democracy with strong protections from minority rights, which will protect them, too. They can't dominate the political scene anymore.

WILLIS: Let's give Jenny a chance to respond here. Jenny?

BACKUS: I think the point here, though, is that there is not been enough progress done -- to go back to the earlier point made about peaceful resolution. Using the constitution to make sure all parties have a voice at the table. There wasn't enough done early on to get the Sunnis bought into it.

Now we're having to do a PR campaign to try to get them involved. There are some positive steps. I do agree. There is also some negative ones. Not every Sunni is part of the insurgency. Not every Shiite. There is lots of -- there is insurgency from everywhere. That's because there is instability and hasn't been a clear plan. And we need a clear plan and we need to have Americans stop shouldering so much of a burden of rebuilding this country.

WILLIS: Well, and this conversation, I am so sure will continue. Eleana Gordon Jenny Backus, thank you for joining us today.

GORDON: Thanks, Gerri.

BACKUS: Thank you.

WILLIS: Coming up, why are these Israelis running past their own country's soldiers? We'll take you inside a showdown that is testing Israel's future.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STEVIE WONDER, SINGER, SONGWRITER: I love you. God bless you.

WILLIS: You're listening to Stevie Wonder who was singing at the voting rights event in Atlanta today.

Just days from now Israel is scheduled to begin pulling troops and settlers out of Gaza and parts of the West Bank. As the withdrawal gets closer, protests against the plan continue. And on the Gaza Coast, a tent city has gone up as a show of defiance. The story from CNN's John Vause.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOHN VAUSE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Today it looks a lot, well, like summer camp. Big blowup slides, cotton candy, teenagers spend their day surfing. Hundreds of families have moved here to Shirat Hayam, living in tents and old abandoned buildings on a Gaza beach, preparing for nothing less, they say, than a battle between good and evil.

The evil, they say, is Israel's plan to withdrawal thousands of Jewish settlers from the Gaza strip and give control to the Palestinians. The good, they say, is their utter determination to stop it.

MICHAL TAWIL, JEWISH SETTLER: There I was sitting in my house and knowing that these people are struggling for their life, everything they've built for the past 30 years, and I couldn't sit home any longer.

VAUSE: Michal Tawil, originally from Brooklyn, New York, packed some clothes, food and sleeping bags, and with her two young boys, left their home in a West Bank settlement to make a stand here in Gaza.

TAWIL: We got lucky. With he got concrete floors, we got cement. We don't have to sleep on sand.

VAUSE: She won't say how she got past the Israeli police and soldiers.

TAWIL: You have to be very inventive and very creative if you want to get in.

VAUSE (on camera): A little over three weeks ago, the Gaza settlements were declared a closed military zone, off limits to just about everyone except residents. But since then, those opposed to the disengagement say about 200 protesters each day have made it past the soldiers and checkpoints, many ending up here at Shirat Hayam.

(Voice over): Some have simply rushed the border. Others were smuggled in the cars of residents, while many have trekked over land at night. They talk about a Jewish underground, which is outsmarted the government.

NADIA MATAR, CAMP ORGANIZER: We thank God we're bringing in many, many, many Jews. As I told you, so many Jews that on D-Day, Ariel Sharon will not be able to implement his criminal decree.

VAUSE (voice over): In Hebrew, Shirat Hayam means song of the sea, and in just over two weeks from now, summer camp will end, and thousands of police and soldiers will be here to remove them by force if necessary.

John Vause, CNN, Gaza.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WILLIS: Coming up, what does your shopping list say about you? I hope nobody looks at mine. We'll show you one way America's stories are being told through scribbles and scraps.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WILLIS: We're showing you the first pictures of those rescued from the Tunisair flight that crashed off the coast of Italy. According to Italian media, 14 people died. At least 19 were saved.

Again, we have been reporting that story all morning about the Tunisair flight. It is actually in the sea off Sicily where that crash occurred.

If you've lost it, chances are good someone found it. CNN's Beth Nissen tells us about a guy with an odd passion.

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BETH NISSEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Davy Rothbart went out to his car one morning a few years ago, to find this angry note on his windshield written to some guy named Mario.

DAVY ROTHBART, "FOUND" MAGAZINE: It said, Mario, I hate you. You said you had to work. Why is your car at her place? You're a liar. I hate you. I hate you. Signed, Amber. PS, page me later?

She's so upset with him, and yet she's still hopeful and in love with him. I showed it to everybody I met, because I thought it was so striking. I wished there was a way to share it with more people.

NISSEN: There was. Rothbart created "Found" magazine, an annually published collection and regularly updated Web site of lost notes, tossed notes, post its, misplaced doodles and discarded photos that he and a small staff edit together with scotch tape and merriment in his Ann Arbor, Michigan basement.

ROTHBART: There are so many other people who share my fascination with these little scraps of other people's lives.

NISSEN: Scraps like shopping lists, found on super market floors and in shopping carts.

ROTHBART: I can't even explain why I love this one so much, but I do. It says roach spray, batteries, watermelon. What these found notes capture is the smallest moments of everyday life. There may be a list, Dennis' list, what I have to do today. And you'll see all these small things, take clothes to the dry cleaner, return videos, and learn to live free. NISSEN: There are a lot of flyers, for rent signs, for three bad rooms on Montross. For sale signs, his and hers gold wedding bands, never used.

ROTHBART: People, they still will use that kind of old-school tactic of taping up flyers all around town. And then the flyers inevitably end up blowing around the streets. People pick them up and send it into us.

NISSEN: Flyers about pets, lost and found. Lost, a cobra that answers to Psycho. This cat, and this cat. Found, a pet bunny, who looks like this from the front and this from behind.

ROTHBART: One of my favorite kinds of flyers are the, Do you want to join my band type of flyer.

NISSEN: A band looking for a bass player. A band looking for a guitarist and bass player and drum and a lead singer.

ROTHBART: The kid who made the flyer, what was he going to do?

NISSEN: Another common category, notes found on windshields.

ROTHBART: A whole genre of notes is angry parking notes.

NISSEN: This was on a car illegally parked in a church parking lot. If this persists, we will have you towed, In Jesus' Name. This Yoda-like note was on a car paying up two spaces. Inconsiderate, must come to the minds of all that think of you.

Rothbart depends on a broad range and growing number of volunteer finders across the U.S. and outside it, ground gazers, he calls them.

ROTHBART: Kids as young as six years old have found stuff and sent it in; people as old as 96, teachers, kids are great at losing things. And stuff teachers have found and sent them to us, are priceless. One of my favorite kinds of notes is the ones that seventh graders might write in class and back and forth to each other.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Home, gym and science, is so retarded, sexual reproduction, ew.

NISSEN: Many notes are found by those out of that ew stage.

ROTHBART: So many of these notes seem to revolve around love and relationships.

NISSEN: Expressing perfect love -- and imperfect love.

ROTHBART: I'm always struck by just how short a note can be and still give you such a powerful sense of somebody, and what is going on with them.

NISSEN: Like this pro and con list apparently written by a woman trying to decide between Andrew and Paul. ROTHBART: Bad things: Andrew, crazy. Paul, crazier. Then the good things. Andrew, sex. Paul, money. A lot of times I think a lot of notes you find are someone just kind of sorting out their thoughts about something.

NISSEN: There are found letters from 1928, photos from 1942. E- mails from 1999. There are warnings, hints, and a flyer that just advertises Steve.

ROTHBART: Some these found notes are hilarious. They're crazy. Some of them are really sad. Some of them -- someone apologizing. Any emotion that has ever been felt in this universe has been expressed in a note that is probably been lost an is blowing down the street right now.

NISSEN: Waiting to be found. Beth Nissen, CNN, Ann Arbor, Michigan.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ROTHBART: There is more ahead on CNN SATURDAY. In a few moments, "In The Money", at 2 Eastern, the battle over eminent domain on CNN's Live Saturday". And at 3 Eastern, "CNN Presents" asks the question: "Is anybody out there?"

But first, Jack Cafferty with a preview of, "In The Money".

JACK CAFFERTY, HOST, IN THE MONEY: Thanks. Coming up on "In The Money", closer than you think. With a new king on the throne in Saudi Arabia, see how stability there affects our lives here.

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