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CNN Live Saturday

Death Toll For Asian Earthquake Stands At 1,000 So Far; Hurricane Stan Causes Massive Mudslides in Guatemala; New Orleans Levees May Not Be Rebuilt Up To Expectation; Earthquake Is Felt In New Delhi; Democrats In Congress Oppose Energy Bill; Major earthquake in South Asia; Oregon's Assisted Suicide Law Argued Before The Supreme Court; Questions About U.S. Readiness For Flu Epidemic

Aired October 08, 2005 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

WILLIS: A massive earthquake strikes South Asia. More than 1,000 are confirmed dead and officials fear that number could go higher. This hour, we'll have live reports from the region.
Plus, the flooding that devastating New Orleans seemed to make the case for stronger levees. So, why isn't that the plan?

And fighting bird flu -- is the U.S. prepared for the deadly virus. Welcome to CNN LIVE SATURDAY, I'm Gerri Willis. Those stories in a moment, but first, other headlines now in the news.

The death toll in south Asia from today's killer earthquake continues to climb. It's now past 1,000. The quake, with a magnitude of 7.6, shook a wide area, including parts of Pakistan, Kashmir, India, and Afghanistan. Live reports from the region, that's straight ahead.

And in Iraq, American troops and Iraqi forces end their anti- insurgency campaign known as Operation Iron Fist. the campaign along the Syrian border lasted nearly a week. Officials say more than 50 al Qaeda terrorists were killed in the operation.

And in Central America, hundreds of deaths are reported after Hurricane Stan lashed the region with torrential rains. Those rains unleashed mudslides that buried towns and villages. An official in Guatemala tells Reuters News Agency that mudslides have killed around 1,400 people in one village alone.

And there is a disturbing report about bird flu in western Turkey. Turkey's agriculture minister says about 2,000 birds have died of the avian flu at a bird sanctuary. Many birds migrate to the area while going to and from Asia, Africa and Europe.

We begin today in south Asia where a terrifying day is now drawing to a close. Night has fallen in the region where a major earthquake struck just hours ago. The quake, with the magnitude of 7.6 was centered in the Pakistani-controlled part of Kashmir.

But its impact was felt across a wide swathe of the subcontinent, through parts of Pakistan, India and Afghanistan. The death toll has climbed more than 1,000. CNN international correspondent Satinder Bindra is with us from Islamabad, Pakistan. Satinder, welcome. SATINDER BINDRA, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Gerri. With every passing hour we are hearing of some more casualties, the casualties in south Asia now numbering about 1,337 dead. The casualties in Pakistan alone, Gerri, are about 1,080.

We've just had word from the Pakistani Army that 200 of their soldiers have been killed. Now the epicenter of the earthquake was about 95 kilometers or 60 miles north of the Pakistani capital of Islamabad. Just north of Islamabad is where the damage is most intense.

I'm in Islamabad at the moment, Gerri, and I'm standing just outside a collapsed apartment complex. An intense relief and rescue operation is ongoing at the moment, but this has been hampered over the last 45 minutes by bad weather. It's raining now and there's also been very heavy winds, so what that's done here is, the 30 or 40 people who were standing on top of the roof of this collapsed tower, are trying to get inside, trying to reach perhaps those still alive inside and that has stopped.

And what's going on at the moment is heavy earth-moving equipment is being deployed. This equipment is trying to clear away tons and tons of rubble. Just about 15 or 20 minutes ago, Gerri, we've also received word that the Indian prime minister has called the Pakistani president to offer condolences and to also offer any support that may be needed over the next coming days.

WILLIS: Can you tell us how successful is this rescue effort with the apartment complex? Do you know if survivors have been pulled out of that complex?

BINDRA: Well, in the time that I've been here, there have been none. We understand, from officials, that 100 or more people could still be trapped inside, and that is why this operation is ongoing at a frantic pace. This entire area has been well-lit to enable relief workers and rescue officials to continue with their work, and there's been another, of course -- there's other fears here as well.

There have been intense aftershocks, all since morning, since 9:00 a.m. and that's why there's still some sense of panic and fear in this neighborhood. Large numbers of people still outside their homes. They still don't want to go inside because they do believe that some of the structures, some of the buildings in this area could have been structurally damaged by the intensity of this morning's earthquake -- Gerri.

WILLIS: A very difficult situation there. Satinder, tell us, you mention of course the Indian prime minister offering condolences, help to Pakistan. I mean, this horrible, horrible event is actually bringing together these two countries that have not gotten along well together for many, many years.

BINDRA: Yes. That could perhaps are seen by some as the silver lining to this dark cloud of tragedy. One of the most intense earthquakes in this region, perhaps, in about 100 years, but clearly the Indians and Pakistanis hoping to help each other out in this time of tragedy.

All across Pakistan, there's some sense of numbness, people collecting around phone booths, trying to reach family members, people collecting around television screens, trying to find out what exactly has happened.

And here in Islamabad, of course, everyone's eyes turn towards this apartment complex, in which several deaths have already been confirmed, but people are praying and people are continuing to hope that at least some survivors will be found -- Gerri.

WILLIS: Satinder, thank you for that report, and stay safe.

Afghanistan is also dealing with death and destruction in the aftermath of today's massive earthquake. Right now, damage is reported in Jalalabad near the Pakistani border and in northeastern Pakistan. One death is reported in Jalalabad.

Stay with CNN for continuing coverage of the earthquake and its impact across south Asia. We'll bring you live updates from the region throughout the day.

Reports out of Guatemala is that Hurricane Stan is being blamed for some 1,400 new deaths. Torrential rains there triggered an enormous mudslide that officials say left an entire village buried in mud as much as 40 feet deep. CNN's Harris Whitbeck joins us now by telephone from Guatemala City with the latest -- Harris.

HARRIS WHITBECK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Gerri, apparently the president of Guatemala, Oscar Berger, flew over the area of Panabaj. That is a village near Lake Atitlan, which is an important tourist destination here and said he had never seen destruction like he saw there, the entire village apparently buried by a huge avalanche of mud.

It's been raining constantly in many parts of Guatemala since last Saturday and this mountainous country has been subject to landslides and mudslides, in many, many different areas. The main problem that the country is facing now is access to these areas because the weather conditions do not permit helicopter flights or do not permit the landing of helicopters in these areas, where it is believed that many, many people might have been affected.

The town of Panabaj near Lake Atitlan normally has a population of 800 people and, again, according to the president, that town was wiped out in its entirety. The U.S. has sent resources to Guatemala, Chinook and Black Hawk helicopters, and we understand that two Black Hawks are currently flying over the area, trying to find a break in the clouds, so that they can land there and bring in some much need search and rescue teams. Again, the situation very, very difficult, because of the lack of information, and a lack of access to these areas -- Gerri.

WILLIS: Harris, it's hard to tell from the pictures here. It looks like the rain may be continuing. Is it possible the situation could get worse, we could have more mudslides? WHITBECK: Well, that's precisely the problem, because while Hurricane Stan might no longer be affecting the area, this is the traditional rainy season in Guatemala. Normally it rains at this time of year through the end of October, so right now, there continues to be rain and more rain is expected, and some helicopter pilots I was talking to said they feel that the weather conditions won't change for the next 24, possibly 48 hours.

Now, they do say that there might be small windows of opportunity to allow flights, and these Black Hawk helicopters are equipped for flying at night and the U.S. military says that it is willing to run the flights at night if necessary.

WILLIS: Harris Whitbeck, thank you so much for that report. That was CNN's Harris Whitbeck.

In India's capital the earth rolled and rumbled causing buildings to sway and widespread panic broke out. CNN producer John Raedler is on the phone from the Indian capital, New Delhi -- Jonathan (ph)?

JOHN RAEDLER, CNN PRODUCER: Where things are calm, Gerri, certainly this city of some 40 million people took a shake and a shudder, rather, but certainly there have been no reports of significant damage and no reports of any injuries here.

Well north though, a very different situation. In Indian- controlled Kashmir, we now have a confirmed death toll of 256 dead. That includes 36 Indian army soldiers. Latest figures indicate more than 700 people injured in Indian-controlled Kashmir, 82 of those Indian army soldiers, and local officials there say that so far, they have counted more than 1,000 dwellings that have been severely damaged or destroyed.

WILLIS: And John, as you survey the scene here, certainly a huge death toll. Any idea about evacuation of people from this area, how it might occur, how orderly it might occur?

RAEDLER: Well, that is something that I think will come onto the agenda tomorrow, Sunday. It's now late Saturday night in the region. Things one can only imagine in most of the area that's been most severely hit have probably come to a standstill overnight.

The worst hit areas are believed to be towns and villages, many of which probably had sparse electricity before this, and most of which probably have no electricity now. So it's expected that things are pretty much at a standstill in those locations. It will take first light before rescue and search activities are revived, but then they have to contend, Gerri, with a very significant problem.

It's just finished the monsoon season here and also this area in Kashmir is extremely mountainous, very steep mountains, and so there have been landslides and mudslides all over Kashmir, the Indian side, the Pakistani side. This has cut roadways. Often there's just one roadway, access to some of these villages and communities, and so there's going to be a lot of work that will be needed to even get to some of the worst-hit areas. WILLIS: John, you said the current death toll in that area, 256. Is it expected that number will go higher?

RAEDLER: Almost certainly it's expected that it will go higher. We've seen today for example, Gerri, just to give you a sense of how this has progressed, let me see -- about 10 hours ago -- about 10 hours ago, we got the first confirmed deaths, and that was five people confirmed dead in Indian-controlled Kashmir.

The overall death toll now, some 10 hours later, for Pakistan, India, and Afghanistan now stands at a conservative estimate of 1,337. And there are some areas, we know, that have yet to be searched, that have even yet to be seen.

There are some areas where, according to the Pakistani military, villages have simply been, in their words, wiped off the face of the earth by these massive landslides and mudslides. So almost certainly we are looking at a major, major death toll here, already beyond 1,000, and could go into the thousands plural.

WILLIS: John Raedler thank you for that report. That was CNN producer John Raedler. We're going to continue to follow this story all hour. A 7.6 earthquake strikes south Asia. The death toll already more than 1,000. We'll have the latest on the search and rescue mission. That's straight ahead.

Plus work has started on rebuilding the levees in New Orleans. But why are some already saying already the plan is flawed?

And the right to die. Oregon has already voted in favor of assisted suicide so why is the issue before the Supreme Court? Our legal eagles will take it on this hour on CNN LIVE SATURDAY.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WILLIS: The death toll in Louisiana continues to rise from Hurricane Katrina, nearly six weeks after the storm struck. Coroners have counted 15 more storm-related deaths. That pushes the state's death toll to at least 1,003.

Many levees in the New Orleans area were not strong enough to withstand Hurricane Katrina. That led to massive flooding and devastation. Now you might think repair crews would rebuild the levees taller and stronger. But CNN's Dan Simon reports that's apparently not happening.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DAN SIMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Coming back from Katrina, one key, strong levees. These bulldozers in St. Bernard Parish moving dirt to rebuild what nature destroyed. It's hard to believe, but this is where levees once rose 17 feet in the air, washed flat and with it, much of this parish.

COL. LEWIS SETLIFF, ARMY CORPS OF ENGINEERS: What's exciting today is we came out here this week and started our initial construction aimed at long-term recovery of the hurricane protection system.

SIMON: The plan to rebuild that hurricane protection system like it was, just sufficient to withstand a category three storm. The excitement here is hardly universal.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get the job done right the way you won't have to worry about having a problem like this again.

SIMON: In a community in which house after house was destroyed by the floodwaters from a category four storm, many residents unable to hide their frustration.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They need to rebuild them high, in my opinion to the proper level where they can handle a category five or four instead of just a category three.

SIMON: But the Army Corps of Engineers says it doesn't have the funding nor resources to build bigger and better and still have the levees finished by next summer. It says it could strengthen further at a later date. Still, not a good plan says Louisiana Republican Senator David Bitter.

SEN. DAVID VITTER (R) LOUISIANA: I'm tired living by the old corps standards and the old corps schedule. This is an emergency situation.

SIMON: I know you don't make those decisions but you're aware that that sentiment is out there.

SETLIFF: We are intimately aware that that sentiment exists. Again, our authority to act rests solely to restore what was here before the storm.

SIMON: Touring the parish as we did today, the magnitude of rebuilding the levees becomes clear. Mile after mile will have to be rebuilt. Everywhere there are examples of the powerful storm surge and this right here is pretty striking when you consider that before the storm you couldn't even see that pipe. That's because it went right through the levee. The corps says even getting the levees back to pre-Katrina strength by next year will be difficult.

KEVIN WAGNER, CORPS OF ENGINEERS: We are very committed to actually getting the work done. We know a lot of people are not going to rebuild until we have these levees in place because that which provides some protection for them from the hurricanes and storm surges.

SIMON: Kevin Wagner, who is overseeing the levee rebuilding in St. Bernard Parish knows what's at stake. He, too, lost his home. The planned replacement levees, he says, will be enough for him to rebuild his house.

WAGNER: Forty years the system worked very well and I think you can have complete confidence that once we're finished with this, people will have a level of protection that they'll feel comfortable with. SIMON: The Corps concedes a stronger, bigger levee system would be preferable, but there's no money, no plans and no time too build before the start of next year's hurricane season. Dan Simon, CNN, St. Bernard Parish, Louisiana.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WILLIS: It's the type of scene we usually don't see on Capitol Hill.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The parliamentary inquiry.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Because to honor the wishes of the American people who have spoken.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Does the gentlelady have a parliamentary inquiry?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I have a parliamentary inquiry. When are you going to honor the ...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The House will be in order.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WILLIS: A heated battle on the House floor, that's for sure. At issue? The nation's energy supply.

And later the road to recovery for some of Hurricane Katrina's youngest survivors. You're watching CNN LIVE SATURDAY.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WILLIS: A controversial bill to encourage oil companies to open new refineries now goes to the Senate after squeaking through the House by a two-vote margin. The measures passed 212-210. Republicans extended the vote by 40 minutes in order to persuade colleagues to switch positions. The outcome put Democrats into an uproar.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: On this vote the ayes are 212, the nays are 210. The majority vote is affirmative. The bill is passed without objection, the motion to reconsider is laid upon the table.

CROWD: Shame, shame, shame.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WILLIS: Democratic leader Nancy Pelosi of California called the vote quote "a shameless display of the Republican culture of corruption," end quote.

And the special prosecutor investigating the leak of a CIA operative's identity will question "New York Times" reporter Judith Miller next week. Miller was released from jail and testified before a federal grand jury last month, after receiving a waiver from her confidential source. Special prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald will meet with Miller on Tuesday. Miller's source is said to be vice president Dick Cheney's chief of staff.

Representative Tom DeLay is asking a Texas court to throw out an indictment against him. The Texas Republican accused district attorney Ronnie Earle of trying to brow-beat a grand jury into charging him with money laundering. DeLay claims Earle tried to cover up the fact that the jurors refused to bring an indictment. A different jury subsequently re-indicted DeLay. Earle's office says DeLay's claims have no merit.

And relief agencies around the world are heading to south Asia to help in the aftermath of a deadly earthquake. We'll have the latest on the search and rescue efforts straight ahead.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: David Larible is known as the prince of laughter, but his work is no joke.

DAVID LARIBLE, RINGLING BROS. HEADLINER CLOWN: Clowning is about being all around entertainers, that's why we say ballet classes. Music is very important, acrobatics, juggling.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Larible has been headlining the Ringling Brothers and Barnum & Bailey Circus for 14 years, achieving the prestigious Golden Clown Award, the circus industry's equivalent of an Oscar. And talent runs in his family. He's a seventh-generation circus performer but says it's dedication and drive that brought him success.

LARIBLE: It is about sacrifice. It's about learning. It's about listening. If you think that you are already good, then you are waster (ph) because always have always to have the desire to be better.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WILLIS: Updating our top story today the death toll from today's massive earthquake in south Asia continues to rise, and now tops 1,300. And officials fear it will climb even higher. The quake had a magnitude of 6.6 -- pardon me -- 7.6. It rattled a wide area including parts of Pakistan, Kashmir, India and Afghanistan. CNN senior international correspondent Satinder Bindra is live from Islamabad, Pakistan -- Satinder.

BINDRA: Gerri, at the moment, a massive rescue and relief operation is ongoing just over my shoulder. This is where the entire apartment complex collapsed. So far, about 24, 25 dead bodies have been recovered, but the bad news and the sad news for many people here is not many survivors or not any survivors being found in the past couple of hours. In the past couple of hours also here, Gerri, the weather has turned bad. It's been raining. There's been heavy winds, which have slowed down this operation and indeed, conditions are much worse outside of Islamabad. The epicenter of this earthquake was about 100 kilometers or 60 miles north of Islamabad in the North-West Frontier Province. We understand casualties are heaviest there and starting tomorrow officials will still have to gauge the extent of the damage before they can continue with the relief and rescue operation.

India, in the meantime, has offered its neighbor, Pakistan, all possible help and assistance and the Indian prime minister, Dr. Manmohan Singh, has just called the Pakistani president, Gen. Pervez Musharraf, to offer his condolences as well. Back to you.

WILLIS: Satinder Bindra, thank you for that report.

The South Asia quake is said to be the strongest in that region in this century. With us now from Denver, Colorado, Waverly Person with the National Earthquake Information Center. Waverly, welcome.

Are you there, sir? Hello? Waverly, do we have you? Well, we're having a few problems. We'll be right back with that interview in just a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WILLIS: The South Asia quake is said to be the strongest in that region in 100 years. With us now from Denver, Colorado, Waverly Person, with the National Earthquake Information Center. Waverly, thanks for being with us today.

WAVERLY PERSON, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL EARTHQUAKE INFORMATION CENTER: It's my pleasure.

WILLIS: This earthquake in South Asia registering 7.6 on the Richter scale, I don't think I've ever heard that before. How significant is that? What does it really mean?

PERSON: Well, this is a major earthquake, major earthquakes being 7.0 to 7.9, and in a populated area, and a shallow earthquake, these types of earthquakes can be very, very damaging, causing a lot of damage and loss of life.

WILLIS: How unusual is an earthquake of this magnitude?

PERSON: Not too unusual. The last earthquake that they had in this area that killed some people was in 1974, and this epicenter was just to the north of yesterday's epicenter. Killed about 5,300 people and it was only a magnitude 6.2.

WILLIS: Wow.

PERSON: So with this being that large, we expect the death toll to be much higher.

WILLIS: So the current death toll that we have, which I believe is 1,337, which CNN has confirmed, it will probably go much higher than that. You said the last storm or earthquake of this magnitude, over 5,000. I want to ask you about the aftershocks, because we've seen these very powerful aftershocks, magnitudes of 6.3, over 6.0.

Tell me what that does, what that's like, what kind of effect that has, as people try to come back from this.

PERSON: Well, these aftershocks, as of when I left the office to come down here, we had located 20 aftershocks, and about 17 of those have been in the magnitude 5.0, and the largest, of course, being the 6.3 in the area, and because of the size of the earthquake, the main shock, these aftershocks are large enough to bring down buildings that were weakened in the main shock, and this can go on for a considerable length of time because of the shallowness of the earthquake.

WILLIS: I understand that many areas hit here were very rural in nature. I'm wondering how well prepared this area is for an earthquake of this magnitude.

PERSON: Well, my fears are, and what we have heard, once you get out into the real rural areas the buildings are built very poorly, and probably many of those buildings and homes out in those areas collapsed in this main shock.

WILLIS: And do you think that it's possible that we could have another problem like this? In the near term, how often do earthquakes happen in this region with what kind of frequency?

PERSON: One of the things that we have seen in this area, the magnitude 6.0, 6.5 in that area, and even some smaller, cause considerable damage and loss of life. If you look at what happened in 1974 just to the north, it was only a 6.2 earthquake and killed over 5,000 people. So this being so much larger than that, we expect the death toll to be much higher once they can get into the areas and find out just what happened more closely to the epicenter.

WILLIS: Mr. Person, thanks so much for your help today. We appreciate it.

We'll continue to follow this story all day long, and certainly in this hour. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WILLIS: The nation's highest court is considering whether doctors in Oregon may help terminally ill patients end their own lives. The Supreme Court heard arguments for and against assisted suicide, and one the first cases before the new Chief Justice, John Roberts.

CNN's Kathleen Koch reports advocates on both sides are sharply divided.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KATHLEEN KOCH, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Outside the Supreme Court Wednesday, advocates of Oregon's assisted suicide law, like cancer patient Charlene Andrews, argued it is a comfort and a choice the terminally ill deserve.

CHARLENE ANDREWS, CANCER PATIENT: It's all part of the spiritual journey of being able to die with compassion and with dignity.

KOCH: But opponents believe assisted suicide is wrong and devalues those with disabilities.

CAROL CLEIGH, DISABILITY RIGHTS ADVOCATE: It promotes the idea that people that need help would be better off dead and we don't believe in that. We believe that our lives are just as valuable as everyone else's.

KOCH: Inside though, justices wrestled with whether the 1970 Controlled Substances Act gives the federal government the right to stop doctors from giving terminally ill patients a lethal dose of medication. Retiring justice Sandra Day O'Connor, the critical swing vote, asked whether an attorney general who opposes capitol punishment could use the law to prohibit lethal injections.

Oregon's assistant attorney general argued that the federal government can regulate drugs, but not how physicians administer them. Chief Justice John Roberts seemed skeptical, asking, "if one state says doctors can prescribe morphine to make people feel good or steroids for body builders, doesn't that undermine the uniformity of federal law and make it harder to enforce elsewhere"?

Solicitor General Paul Clement argued that assisted suicide lacks legitimate medical purpose and so is an improper use of medication and thus a violation of federal drug laws.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WILLIS: The Supreme Court is not expected to issue a ruling on the legality of Oregon's assisted suicide law for at least several months.

Two legal experts are joining us now to discuss the case and other legal issues making headlines. Avery Friedman is a civil rights attorney and law professor. Also joining us from New York, criminal defense attorney Richard Herman. Hi to both of you guys.

RICHARD HERMAN, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Good afternoon

AVERY FRIEDMAN, CIVIL RIGHTS ATTORNEY: Nice to see you.

This is a pretty serious topic, assisted suicide. And I guess I don't understand how can you have different laws in different states.

Let's start with you, Avery.

FRIEDMAN: Actually, the issue before the Supreme Court is one of these very dry issues concerning federalism. You're absolutely right. These are very emotional, passionate issues, but what the court is struggling with right now is do we have a federal government that controls all sorts of drugs, or do states retain the power over medical practices? That's where the clash is here and that's what they're struggling with and the bottom line is there's a 1997 case which essentially says when it comes to medical practices, that should be the state province, so we're now moving into a new era in considering this issue.

WILLIS: Richard, is it a new era, and how do you think the Supreme Court will come down on this?

HERMAN: Well, I think, Gerri, we can have insight based on Justice Roberts' comments there, his questioning. Last year, this very same Supreme Court without Justice Roberts ruled 6-3 against legalizing medical marijuana on the same issue of regulating drugs, so I think you're going to have a very -- I think it's going to come down the Oregon law is going to be overturned here.

WILLIS: Avery?

FRIEDMAN: I don't agree with that at all. I think there is a likelihood that the Oregon law will be sustained and I think the best reference point, I think, is, you know, we dealt with a right-to-die issue this year in Schiavo, and the U.S. Supreme Court declined to take that case.

I think the sense is they granted this review, they said issues of medical practice really goes on at the state level. So we have a disagreement, but really nobody knows the answer.

HERMAN: Gerri?

WILLIS: Go right ahead.

HERMAN: Gerri, it's a more conservative bench now without Sandra Day O'Connor. Please, she was the swing vote. I'm telling you this is going to be a conservative decision.

FRIEDMAN: Well, you don't know what Harriet Miers is going to do if she makes it.

WILLIS: You guys, let's move on to -- exactly, you bring her up, Harriet Miers. We've got to get to this topic. What do you make of this nomination? She hasn't sat on the bench. We don't know what to expect. What do you expect, Avery?

FRIEDMAN: Well, the president is wild about Harry. What we know is that a lot of the Democrats in the Senate think she's way too evangelical and a lot of the Republicans in the Senate think she's not evangelical enough. And as one who has sat on the bench, I'm very sensitive to the difference between being an impartial arbiter, being fair, and being an advocate, and you know what? She hasn't sat on the bench. So there are so many questions. This is going to be literally before the Senate Judiciary, Gerri, a free-for-all.

WILLIS: Richard, weigh in here.

HERMAN: Well, Gerri, the president has the right to nominate whoever he wants, and clearly, this was his personal attorney. He knows her views better than anyone. So I think he has comfort in her conservative views. But the issue, in my perspective, is: is she qualified?

And there are so many qualified lawyers out there, lawyers who practice before appellate courts every day, people like Justice Roberts, who are so supremely qualified for the job that I think the president, in my opinion, missed the boat with this Miers confirmation.

FRIEDMAN: He said, "Trust me," is what he said.

HERMAN: Well, I don't.

FRIEDMAN: And the fact is whether you do or don't, I think the founding fathers had in mind not exactly to say I'm going to trust the president, but rather, let's ask the tough questions to find out if this nominee can really fill the bill.

HERMAN: She's not going to answer the tough questions, Avery. You know that and I know that.

WILLIS: We've watched a lot of these nomination processes and the interviews that go on. They're always interesting but I've got to ask, Richard, how unusual is it for someone with her background to get nominated to the nation's highest court?

HERMAN: Well, Gerri, put your seat belt on for this. There have been 40 Supreme Court judges who have never sat on the bench before being appointed to the Supreme Court, including the past head justice, Rehnquist.

FRIEDMAN: Yeah, but what so what? These guys have been, well, women and men, have been law professors, they have attorneys general. This is very unusual in this respect. She is White House counsel. She has argued one major Constitutional case, unlike John Roberts. So there are a ton of questions that we have no idea what the answers to, and that's what Judiciary is going to find out or try to.

WILLIS: Richard?

HERMAN: She's not going to answer the tough questions, Gerri, and we're stuck. This president picked his buddy and she's going to get in and there's nothing, I don't think, we can do about it.

FRIEDMAN: Well, I'm not sure about that.

WILLIS: We'll have to continue this another day, another week. My thanks to Avery Friedman and Richard Herman. Thank you so much for being with us today.

FRIEDMAN: Thank you, Gerri.

HERMAN: Nice to see you, Gerri.

WILLIS: A draft of the Bush administration plan to fight a possible flu pandemic has The New York Times calling the U.S. woefully unprepared to face such a disaster. The document says a large outbreak starting in Asia could reach U.S. shores within weeks. The worst case scenario predicts nearly 2 million deaths in the U.S.

The Times quotes an unnamed health official as saying the plan's biggest failing is that it doesn't make clear who would be in charge. We're seeing signs now that the bird flu may be spreading beyond Asia. CNN has learned some 2,000 birds have died from the virus at a bird sanctuary in western Turkey.

Joining me now on the phone, Turkish Agriculture Minister Mehdi Eker. Thanks for joining us today.

MEHDI EKER, TURKISH AGRICULTURE MINISTER: Hello (ph).

WILLIS: Let's start with what we know to be these 2,000 birds that have died in the sanctuary. Should we all be worried? Is this a health scare just starting?

EKER: Well, I mean, just starting. Today the birds have been identified and not 2,000 chickens have actually died, but they were killed. It was just the one case that we have identified and we have killed all the others.

This is already on a free-range farm which is breeding Turkey chickens, and in the open area and very close to the lake called Manyas, which is on the destiny of migration, migrating birds, come from Europe, mountains, to Africa. So actually, we were expecting some sort of disease to be -- we were expecting it. So last month, we had some exercise regarding this issue and now it's under the control, (unintelligible) control. I think we may have taken all necessary measures, so it's just...

WILLIS: Sir, let's talk about some of those measures if we could. Given that this is a migratory path, is your country doing anything to ensure the safety of its residents? The big fear that avian flu could move from birds to humans, what kinds of precautionary measures is your country taking?

EKER: Well, we, in terms of -- I mean, we notified all people and informed all people around, and they have teams, medical teams, medical staff, and there is staff also they are working in this area, and this infection and the quality measure now is, I mean, working. So, so far, we have no -- I mean, any problem, and we hope (unintelligible).

WILLIS: Mr. Mehdi Eker, thanks for being with us today. We appreciate your time.

Many Americans say they have little faith in the government's ability to handle a disaster. And like bird flu, after seeing the response to Hurricane Katrina.

Candy Crowley reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CANDY CROWLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Think the U.S. government is ready for a deadly global flu epidemic? UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Surely you jest, no.

CROWLEY: They are lined up inside a Maryland grocery store for a garden-variety flu shot. Most have heard of bird flu. All heard of Hurricane Katrina.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You know the federal government -- we're not ready for anything.

CROWLEY: The government's initial reaction to Katrina permeates the discussion of a bird flu which may or may not happen, but most certainly would be catastrophic. A recent Pew poll found the percentage of Americans who think the government is almost always inefficient rose by nine points post-Katrina to 56 percent.

It's why the State Department is anxious to show this: an international meeting to talk about an early warning system for a flu which has already migrated from birds in Asia to birds in Europe. And it's why the White House put this out: the president and drug company execs discussing vaccine production.

Call it the FEMA effect. Everybody feels it. The public, the experts, the government. Remember those ill and elderly patients lying on the floor of the New Orleans airport?

KIMBERLY ELLIOTT, TRUST FOR AMERICA'S HEALTH: But imagine that times 50, simultaneously, where you have to see things like high school gymnasiums and hotel ballrooms converted to field hospitals. And I'd be willing to wager that in most communities the local Marriott or Days Inn hasn't been notified by the local health department they may need to take over that facility to treat sick patients.

CROWLEY: This is the man who does not want to be Michael Brown. Post-Katrina, Health and Human Services Secretary, Michael Leavitt, walked through medical facilities and shelters in 17 cities in seven states.

MICHAEL LEAVITT, HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES SECRETARY: I saw row after row of cots, medical cots, that had been put together in very short periods of time.

CROWLEY: Secretary Leavitt is responsible for the government's response plan for the flu.

LEAVITT: I also thought what if I were seeing this happen all across the country? What if I were seeing it at a time where people were afraid and not anxious to help? Those are two of the things that worry me.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You think the federal government's prepared?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I hope so. No.

CROWLEY: But the FEMA effect blows many ways. Remember the blame game, who should have done what, when? Consider a pandemic. LAURIE GARRETT, AUTHOR, THE COMING PLAGUE: Public health is executed by states and cities, and in some states by counties, and all with different laws and different sets of responsibilities. Very few states and very few large cities in the United States have developed their own flu preparedness plan.

CROWLEY: And the truth is, even as you worry about the government's preparedness, it worries about yours.

LEAVITT: In that kind of a natural disaster, time after time we see that for a certain period of time, 36, 72 hours, people are pretty much on their own, and what do you in the 100 hours before a disaster is a lot more important than what happens in the few hours after.

CROWLEY: When it gets right down to it, life can turn on whether there's an axe in the attic or hand sanitizer in the cabinet. Candy Crowley, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WILLIS: Some of the smallest survivors of Hurricane Katrina face some of the biggest obstacles when it comes to adjusting to a world forever changed. Straight ahead, Tony and his road to recovery.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WILLIS: Trying to escape an approaching monster hurricane is a terrifying prospect for anyone, but for people who are receiving potentially life-saving medical treatments, evacuating can be traumatizing, especially for children. CNN medical correspondent Elizabeth Cohen reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: On Sunday, August 28th, as Hurricane Katrina began its sweep through the Gulf Coast, the Nata family evacuated. Packing just a few things, they locked their doors and drove away.

MRS. NATA: Never would have dreamed it would have been as catastrophic as it was.

COHEN: These are stills taken of the Nata's property immediately following Katrina. The street in front of their home, a river. The family's truck, under water. Their sofa, a floating fixture on the front porch. But the devastation was nothing compared to the panic of getting their son to his chemotherapy treatment.

NATA: Where's his doctor? Where do we go? Who do we contact? Baton Rouge lines were down. You don't know where to turn, but you just know that it's critical. He needs this treatment.

COHEN: Six-year-old Tony was diagnosed with leukemia in November, 2003. Remission came 30 days later. But this past June, the cancer returned. It was now in his central nervous system, including the membranes surrounding his brain. A rigid schedule of chemotherapy treatments was now preparing him for a bone marrow transplant. The donor would be his four-year-old sister, Ally (ph).

NATA: Tony's at a 35 percent chance of surviving without a transplant right now. So it was critical.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WILLIS: You can see more of that heart-wrenching story tonight. It's part of an all-new "CNN PRESENTS: CHILDREN OF THE STORM," an in- depth and touching look at how children who survived Hurricanes Katrina and Rita are dealing with the challenges of their new lives. That starts tonight at 8:00 Eastern.

There's more ahead on CNN LIVE SATURDAY. At the top of the hour it's "CNN PRESENTS: TRACKING THE MONSTER STORM." CNN goes inside the frantic effort to track a killer storm as it roars toward landfall. And at 4 Eastern we'll have the latest from South Asia where rescue workers are still looking for survivors after a deadly quake and multiple aftershocks. At 5:00 Eastern, "PEOPLE IN THE NEWS" and the amazing stories of five people whose lives were forever changed by 9/11 and how faith intervened in each of their lives. "TWISTS OF FATE: STORIES FROM 9/11."

I'm back with a quick check of the headlines right after this.

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