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CNN Live Saturday

Iraqis Vote On Constitution Today; Riots Break Out In Toledo; Train Fire Destroys Homes In Arkansas

Aired October 15, 2005 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Ahead this hour, a planned protest turns violent before the march by white supremacists actually gets under way. We'll have the latest on this breaking story.
Also, counting the votes in Iraq, waiting to see what future Iraqis envision for themselves. Will a new constitution heal the wounds of war or make it worse?

And this...

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In the remote town of Balakot, we arrived by helicopter well before the relief efforts and we were mobbed.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: CNN's Matthew Chance shows us life in earthquake ravaged Pakistan, and the desperate struggle to survive.

And as if the threat of bird flu wasn't bad enough, now there's a new virus to worry about? This one could be dangerous to your pets.

Hello and welcome to CNN LIVE SATURDAY. I'm Fredricka Whitfield. All that and more after a check of the headlines.

A tense situation in Toledo, Ohio. At the start of a demonstration involving a neo-Nazi group reported clashes with police. A store was apparently ransacked. Now a building is on fire. We'll have the latest on this from Toledo in a moment.

Panhandle now says the death toll is more than 38,000. The country's leader, President Pervez Musharraf says the quake left 2.5 million people homeless.

And the death of an NBA baseball player is being blamed on a heart attack. Atlanta Hawk center Jason Collier died overnight. The "Atlanta Journal-Constitution" newspaper reports the 28-year-old reported chest pain, received CPR from his wife and was pronounced dead after being rushed to the hospital.

First to Toledo, Ohio, where police are trying to put an end to street violence it. It came at the end of a demonstration involving a white-supremacist group. At least one building is on fire and several people are in custody. The Virginia based national movement which calls itself America's Nazi party had a permit to actually gather in a city park. They did so and they were also met by a number of people who were from the community who were protesting this neo-Nazi group's presence, saying that they didn't belong here. What exactly happened after that, it depends who you talk to in terms of how the violence did take place.

150 police officers on foot in cruisers and even in the air were there on the scene. And now trying to sort out exactly what happened and why.

And now vast security, a big turnout and another round of defiant voters waving index fingers stained with purple ink. That was the scene in Iraq where the polls are now closed and the counting has begun in a crucial referendum.

Millions of Iraqis cast their ballots to decide the fate of a proposed constitution. Election officials say the turnout was likely more than 60 percent. Violent attacks were down, security was tight. Both Iraqi and U.S. forces guarded the polls.

Now, if approved the draft constitution will become law of the land, but it's not a done deal. There are indications the final results could be close. CNN chief international correspondent Christiane Amanpour reports from Baghdad.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's Iraq's second time at the polls in nine months. To vote a simple yes or no on a complicated constitution that could shape their lives for generations.

We are free now after 35 years of oppression says this man. We can vote, we can talk, we can do whatever we want. We hope this vote will bring all Iraqis a better future.

Everyone hopes for a better future in Iraq. But not everyone agrees this constitution will guarantee. That even these sisters are divided.

(on camera): How did you vote?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.

AMANPOUR: And how did you vote?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No.

AMANPOUR: Why?

(voice-over): She says she worries the constitution doesn't guarantee Iraq's Arab identity.

At this polling station, Jessica voted yes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I hope all the Iraqis get the rights especially the women.

AMANPOUR: Her mother also voted yes, but she's worried about the article stating Islam will be the base of all legislation.

Everyone should be free to worship, says Ahlam woman. But we want a secular government not a religious one.

(on camera): Key to the success of this referendum will be its popular legitimacy. In other words, whether everyone including the minority Sunnis believe they're included in the process, so their interests are represented. So far they don't.

(voice-over): A last-minute deal to get Sunnis to the polls did bring them out, but...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't know.

AMANPOUR: Doctor Manjed al Naid (ph), a Sunni and his wife Amira fear the constitution will rip the country apart and leave them out in the cold.

(on camera): You're worried about the country splipping?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, of course.

AMANPOUR (voice-over): Amira wants nothing to do with this document.

She worries the constitution give all the political and economic power to the Shiites and Kurds who sit on the country's oil wells.

One clear sign of change, this time Iraqi security forces are manning the polling centers. Ambulances on standby just in case, and American forces on standby, too. Colonel Ed Cardon says political development here is crucial.

COL. ED CARDON, U.S. ARMY: The greatest thing that can help us right now is the development of legitimate, local government. The local governments that are here are created by the old government, and they're not seen as legitimate. And so when these elections happen, where there's a legitimate local government, that's going to help us a lot with insurgents.

AMANPOUR: For instance says Colonel Cardon, he could wipe out an insurgent cell, but with no local government to take its place, another one can spring back within days.

And as people cast their vote this day, their highest hope is for an end in sight to the violence.

Christiane Amanpour, CNN, Baghdad.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WHITFIELD: And more on the state of affairs in Iraq in a moment. But first want to go back to our top story out of Toledo, Ohio where rioting is now taking place after apparently clashes involving demonstrators who are part of a neo-Nazi who were group planning to have a march there. People who live in the neighborhood, who came out to protest, and then even about 150 police who were out there to help restore order for this planned protest which consequently ended up being a riot.

With us now from WTVG, our affiliate out of Toledo, Ohio, Sashin Bray. Sashin, bring us up to date.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The latest we heard so far is that Toledo police chief Mike Navarre has announced that Toledo mayor Jack Ford who is in the process right now of briefing the public of the latest developments, saying he will ask Ohio governor Bob Taft now to authorize the Ohio Highway State Patrol to provide some more riot help.

As we've been keeping up to date all afternoon, the rioters extended past the area where the original neo-Nazi march was supposed to take place which was eventually canceled due to the violence, essentially setting fire to one of the buildings there.

In fact, all the violence has kind of caused a ripple effect throughout the day. One local high school in the area that was supposed to have home coming activities canceled. Church activities in the area also canceled. Toledo police all over town being advised to wear body armor as this situation continues to escalate.

We understand now that some of the city's leaders have just met with some local gang leaders in the area trying to come to some agreement as to how to bring things down a notch. It seems -- the word coming from our crews on the scene is that the gang leaders turned on police and began throwing rocks at not only the officers, but even Mayor Jack Ford who is there at the scene.

WHITFIELD: OK. And Sahim (ph), I'm going to ask you to take a break right there. I want to go to this press conference involving police authorities there out of Toledo right now.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All right.

QUESTION: Were there any outside individuals involved in the...

MAYOR JACK FORD, TOLEDO, OHIO: I did not see anyone that would give me any signal that they were outside. They were not youth. There were youth there. That was another concern. There were women and children in this group. I talked to a couple toddlers who were there. And that was another reason I was concerned about how it would play out.

But these were mostly adults. And you know, in their 20s. Clearly gang members. And they let you know that, but that's who it was.

QUESTION: Mayor Ford, you mentioned that the anger was based on some a longstanding situations. Can you describe those situation for us? FORD: Just some grievances about being stopped and different things that had happened to them. And the problem was it was about -- I don't know, at any given point 10 or 15 voices hurling accusations. So when you try to respond, it was very difficult.

I would like to salute Mansur Bait (ph) and Jill Walters (ph) and Chief Bell and Alan Bannister who walked into the crowd with me. That was a lot. I appreciate it.

QUESTION: What is the current situation now in North Toledo?

FORD: The crowd has been dispersed. We have a lot of officers up there. I'm going ask for 50 highway patrol officers to come up to supplement our officers. We're going to be up there as long as we have to be to keep things in control.

QUESTION: Any idea if there will be a curfew this evening in that section?

FORD: I am announcing that there will be an 8:00 p.m. -- first I have to declare a state of emergency. And we're doing that. And then we will have a curfew at 8:00 p.m. That doesn't mean people can't get in their cars or they can't go to games, but we're talking about folks roaming around the streets and alleys and so forth.

QUESTION: And if you do find people walking the streets, then what?

FORD: My guess, in that area, they will be stopped and asked what's going on. And that is our major focus there.

QUESTION: Do you have any idea on the number of arrests?

FORD: Chief will be up in a minute. He can share that with you.

QUESTION: Mayor Ford, I have to ask you this. Is this not what the Nazi parties wanted to happen?

FORD: It's exactly what they wanted. And, last night, I was at a church event. There were I think 2,000 people there, at Friendship Baptist. And we made an appeal for folks to stay home and ignore it. And the crowd really responded. And then I spent some time driving around talking to smaller groups of youngsters.

But it was the -- somewhat of a spectacle today. People were -- I saw grandparents bringing their grandchildren to stand on the corner to see the march go by. It was almost like a parade atmosphere, and we talked to a few and said, you know, be cool, or why don't you just go back in the house. And they said I just want to see it.

But it really was the gang members that took advantage of the situation in my estimation. I did talk to them. Said I'll be willing to meet with them to discuss any legitimate grievances, but they were not interested in that.

QUESTION: How do you think the city could have better prepared today?

FORD: The chief put in inordinant amount of preparation. The sheriff was there. We had other jurisdictions. We could not stop them from walking on the sidewalk. We had indicated we would not give them a permit to march in the streets. But we could not stop them from, like any other citizen, walking down the sidewalk.

QUESTION: Is there any trouble in getting them to leave?

FORD: I'll let the chief speak to that. I think the answer is no, but he'll speak to that.

QUESTION: Mayor, was this more just plain vandalism or criminal activity than race relations, do you think?

FORD: I don't think it was race relations at all. I think it was some gang members who had real or imagined grievances and took it as an opportunity to speak in their own way over the march and what they considered to be their park and their area.

QUESTION: Mayor, you disappointed in the citizens of Toledo?

FORD: No. I am disappointed that some folks who clearly are not strong citizens to begin with took this opportunity to make this statement. I was chagrined that there were obvious mothers and children in the crowd with them. Several intimated that they had guns. And so, you know, we're trying to deal with several issues at the same time.

QUESTION: Mayor Ford, there's going to be an entire nation that will see this tonight on the nightly news. What would you like to say to those people in Toledo, and this is our first impression of our city?

FORD: Well, I don't think it will be their first impression. People know what toledo's all about. We've had a protest walk. We canceled it. Some elements in our community took it as an opportunity to deal with other concerns they had. We tried to talk with them, particularly in light of the youngsters in the crowd. At a certain point of the dispersal command had to be given.

QUESTION: You going to be doing anything differently after you announce the curfew?

FORD: The chief will deal with that question.

QUESTION: But mayor, have going to say about the comments and concern about the situation, whereas basically upended the city?

FORD: This is beyond what you expect a Community Development corporation to do. And by the way, I think Ramone Perez who works for Lagrange also walked into the group with me. And he is a street worker in that area. And he was deeply concerned by the level of hostility by the gang leadership toward our police and in the whole picture.

QUESTION: Mayor Ford...

WHITFIELD: You've been listening to Toledo mayor, Jack Ford, saying he was afraid something like this would happen.

As early as last night, he and other city officials tried to appeal to the community there in the northern section of Toledo, asking them to stay away from a planned neo-Nazi march that was planned for today. But many people did not heed those warnings of that appeal from the city. And this mayor, Jack Ford, saying that some people took this as an opportunity to start some trouble.

He is blaming, in part, gang members of the community. And now they're dealing with reports of some looting, at least one fire and we also hear there have been some arrests.

Of course, more on this story as it develops. We're going to take a short break right now and we'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: In Iraq, the polls have closed. Iraqis have spoken, but it maybe at least a week before we know whether Iraqis accepted or rejected the draft constitution. Our military analyst just returning from a tour of Iraq, retired major general Don Shepherd is here with his take on the day's events. Good to see you again.

DON SHEPHERD, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: My pleasure.

WHITFIELD: Apparently, violence was down. And the violence that had escalated leading up to this vote was in part a form of intimidation. Did the Iraqi people, if the voter turnout was high, in effect, send a message to the insurgents that they really want some sort of autonomy and this is a first step?

SHEPHERD: Yes, I think message that the Iraqi people sent was they're tired of violence. They want to proceed. I don't know whether proceeding means defeating the constitution or proceeding the constitution. Ideally, you would like to have the constitution work and proceed on into a bright future.

But the message they sent is one of courage and one of the fact that, look, we're tired of this. And that I think they sent a clear message of defeat to the insurgents out there. Not the perfect message everywhere, because there are some reports of Ramadi, and palces like that, where the Sunnis simply did not vote.

But there was a good Sunni turnout. And we'll see what the results are.

WHITFIELD: And based on your visit, your most recent visit, did you get a sense why so many Iraqis said they were willing to put their lives on the line to go to these 6,000 polling stations throughout the country?

SHEPHERD: Yeah. Very clearly they're glad that Saddam is gone. But they don't know what the future is going to look like. There is very much excitement about creating a new future. And polls that are valid indicate the Iraqis are much more confident about their future than Americans are about ours. They feel good about their future there which is very, very interesting to me.

So, it's very clear that they want to get on with the government. They want to elect a competent government. That is going to be the tough part, Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: And speaking of confidence, the Iraqis are a lot more confident about their Iraqi forces than they are about the elected officials or possible elected officials.

SHEPHERD: The same polls indicate they have almost no confidence in U.S. forces and they have very good confidence in their Iraqi forces. And I think as you see the Iraqi forces begin to build and have success that their confidence will increase even more.

Clearly they want us gone. Clearly we want to be gone. And our success will be when we can leave and they're strong enough to succeed after we leave.

WHITFIELD: Voting for or against the constitution does nothing about the porous borders, that's still a very big problem, particularly along the border with Syria. Are you seeing any kind of progress?

SHEPHERD: Hard to define. We can't close our own borders around here in this country. They have long borders over there. We have 138,000 soldiers. 138,000 can't do it. They have to do it. They are not out there yet. They haven't progressed far enough in the cities to go out there that far. We need to go out and have presence.

But the figures I've heard are, is there's only 150 insurgents a month coming across from Syria. That's not a lot up there. And we're putting great pressure on them.

So, I think that perhaps the problem of insurgency coming in from abroad is overstated. People that I talked to say basically you can think that about 5 percent of this insurgence is foreign fighters, the rest is indigenous to Iraq, people that feel disaffected or are members of the former regime that will never go away.

WHITFIELD: And earlier this week the Syrian president said that something very similar to what you are saying, you know, the U.S. can't close all of its borders with Mexico, then how in the world can Syria and Iraq expect to live up to the same kinds of expectations?

SHEPHERD: Yes. They can do a lot better. We're putting pressure on Syria for a very good reason. There's two parts of the insurgency coming across from Syria. One, let's say the number of 150 is right. It could be that they operate through the gangster elements, the tribes, in other words. They are not receiving support, or even any tacit support from Syrian government.

But the other support is the Baathists, the former Baathists like al Douri (ph) that are living in Syria that we know are there. Syria can really help with that part of the problem and should. And we're putting pressure on them to do so.

WHITFIELD: General Don Shepherd, thanks so much.

SHEPHERD: Pleasure.

WHITFIELD: Well, you're less than an hour away from a CNN special presents Progress Report II. It's an in-depth look at what's working and what's not in the battle to bring stability to Iraq. You can see it again on Sunday at 7:00 pm Eastern and at 8:00 eastern Sunday, "Voices From the Home Front." CNN's John King talks to Americans across the country to find out why they are so divided over the war in Iraq.

A train derailment sent fireballs and six plumes of smoke above sourth western Arkansas today, caused an explosion that killed one person and forced hundreds of others to flee. Reporter Sarah Gouedy from CNN affiliate KSLA joins us now from Texarkana to explain what happened?

SARAH GOUEDY, KSLA CORRESPONDENT: Well, where I'm standing actually is essentially ground zero for all of the action that happened this morning. Now, I want you to just look over here, we're going to pan over here, and you can see right in the distance, the plume of smoke. That is where the actual explosion took place.

Now, what we understand happened is that it was a train that slammed into the back of another train on that railway. The train was full of propylene gas. It then exploded. It sent a huge plume of smoke all over the Texarkana city limits. You could see it from miles away.It looked a lot like a ripple in the sky, almost as if you had thrown a rocket upon and can you see the ripple effect.

Now, what happened next is what got intense, when the plume of smoke and plume of flames basically just destroyed this entire area. You can see this used to be someone's house, this used to be someone's yard. Just twelves hours ago, a family lived here. But now you can see it's almost nothing, just burned out pieces of rubble and pieces of cars and debris and smoke and just a raging fire that hit this area.

In fact, it was so intense, I want to show you this right over here, this actually was someone's window. And it blew out into the street here in this block area and destroyed the window, destroyed the home, and it's caused an amazing scene here. And it led to about a fourth of the city of Texarkana being evacuated. That's about 5,000 to 6,000 people they were evacuated to other family members or the fairgrounds here in Texarkana to get them away from the propylene smoke.

They had been allowed to return home, we understand. That's everyone south of Arthur Street here in Texarkana. But this block has not allowed to return home, because as you can see there, there is so much damage and so much debris.

And in fact, fire officials and police were just going through this just moment ago to see if there were more bodies beside the one fatality. All we can confirm is one fatality that happened this morning. And, of course, 5,000 to 6,000 people that were evacuated as a result of the plume of smoke and chemicals that reached out over into the sky of Texarkana.

WHITFIELD: All right. Sarah Gouedy, thank you so much for that report.

Well, new fears for pet owners. We'll give you the new details on dog flu, and what to look out for in your pet when CNN LIVE SATURDAY returns.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: In New Orleans, Mayor Ray Nagin has given into French Quarter nightclubs that openly threaten to violate the city's midnight curfew. CNN's Ed Lavandera is in New Orleans with the latest on the very difficult task of recovery there -- Ed.

ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Fredricka. Well, last night was the first night that the curfew had been pushed back in the French Quarter and downtown business areas until 2:00 a.m., which was welcome news to many of the business owners in the area who had already started to see a return of people coming back to the French Quarter and Bourbon Street generating business for business owners losing money for the last month and a half. Many of the business owners they make the most of their money between 10:00 at night and 6:00 in the morning.

So they welcome the two extra hours of business. As far as we know everything went well. It was a week where midnight curfew had been strictly enforced, cutting into a lot of business that these bar owners had been generating. But the business aspect is just one of the issues that the City of New Orleans continues to deal with. The other, of course, the massive cleanup operation, and now what we saw this morning in some neighborhood, people just essentially grabbing brooms and tons of brooms to clean up whatever they can.

In fact, a group of 300 people along Magazine Street, which is near the business district here in New Orleans. We're joined by Mayor Ray Nagin here this morning, sweeping up the streets and they say over the next several months they, will pick a neighborhood each weekend and focus on those neighborhoods and Mayor Ray Nagin says this is just the way it has to be done. Neighborhood by neighborhood, and slowly piecing everything back together.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Got to take care of business.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LAVANDERA: So, as I mentioned, these people will be continuing to do this, Mayor Ray Nagin spent an hour out there this morning sweeping up the neighborhoods along the Magazine Street area, and of course, business owners here in the French Quarter area, much happier with the way the situation is working with that midnight curfew being pushed back to 2:00 a.m. Although they do say, Fredricka, that this is only a temporary solution, they want that curfew lifted altogether so they can continue to do more business. But Mayor Ray Nagin says they're trying to balance public safety issues and business needs and hope that that will be able to change in the coming weeks.

WHITFIELD: Folks are very anxious, understandably, get back to the normalcy they know. Ed Lavandera, thank you very much.

Well, neither rain, sleet or snow stopped the mailmen, but Katrina did. Now another sign that New Orleans is getting back to normal, the mail is delivered. And we go along with a postman on his daily route straight ahead.

Plus, bringing stability to Iraq and stopping the insurgency, that's the mission of U.S. troops there. So how's it going? When CNN LIVE SATURDAY returns.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: More on a developing story. Trying to sort out the mess made there in Toledo, the mayor of that city, Jack Ford, is calling for an 8:00 p.m. curfew after a planned march by white supremacists sparked violence in the streets and the march apparently was called off just as it was about to happen, however, the mayor and police are blaming a good part of that destruction, from looting to even fires in that community on gang members who "took advantage of the opportunity to make this statement."

Those are the exact words of the mayor, Jack Ford. At least a half a dozen people have been arrested.

They came in big numbers and with big expectations for their country's future. Millions of Iraqi voters deciding the fate of a proposed constitution, the polls are now closed after today's referendum and election workers have begun counting those ballots. Final results are expected sometime next week. The turnout was steady, with some Iraqi officials staying was more than 60 percent, but the United Nations cautions that estimate is premature.

Referendum day was mostly violence free. U.S. and Iraqi forces clamped down with major security measures around the 6,000 polling station.

All this weekend CNN PRESENTS is taking an in-depth look at battle to bring stability to Iraq. Ending the insurgency at the heart of the mission. CNN's Jennifer Ecclesston has a preview of "Progress Report II."

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JENNIFER ECCLESTON, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Tightening the noose on insurgents. In western al Anbar province. Two coordinated operations in towns and cities up and down Iraq's famed Euphrates River, their objective, denial.

COL STEPHEN DAVIS, USMC: It's eliminating the insurgents' ability to move. It denies him the ability to communicate, to operate, and it disrupts and ultimately leads to destruction of his network.

ECCLESTON: Is it that simple? Operation River Gate, battle experienced marines launch simultaneous ground and air assaults in and around Haditha, an ancient smuggling route that thrives today. Two thousand five hundred American forces, mostly marines and soldiers and sailors, too alongside Iraq's emerging army, several hundred strong.

All primed for a fight, but no full blown enemy offensive yet. They've either slipped away before the advance or blended in with the local population.

But their presence lingers. Improvised explosive device everywhere.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We've got the battery receiver, we're going to the hole.

ECCLESTON: Operations River Gate and Iron Fist not the first in western al Anbar, Matador, Sword, Spear, among others precede them, back then the insurgents pushed in after the Americans pulled out. Troop levels, American and Iraqi not enough to sustain a constant presence. Now ...

DAVIS: Very simple equation, presence equals security, equals stability, and that equals success. The vacuum is filled and insurgents will go where we are not. So we have to put the presence in those towns.

ECCLESTON: This time, after the battle, forces will remain, first the Americans down the road, the Iraqis. Two operations, two armies. The start of a fight to crush what they call the final outpost of insurgent activity in Iraq.

Success here could very well turn the tide of violence throughout this country. Failure could do so, too.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WHITFIELD: And can you see more of CNN PRESENTS: "Progress Report II" in less than 30 minutes. It begins at 5:00 Eastern. And catch it tomorrow again at 7:00 p.m. Eastern and at 8:00 Eastern Sunday, "Voices from the Home Front." CNN's John King talks to Americans across the country why they are so divided over the war in Iraq.

The grim task of counting bodies presses on in Pakistan, more than a week after the monster earthquake. Pakistani officials say the death toll has surpassed 38,000. That number could jump even higher as more bodies are found under the rubble.

Seeing the devastation an incredible desperation among the survivors is extremely difficult. CNN's Matthew Chance talks candidly about what he has seen in the quake-ravaged region in his reporters' notebook. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CHANCE (voice-over): Covering an earthquake is an emotional ordeal. The destruction is overwhelming. The pain of families dragging their loved ones from the rubble can be too much. Pakistan has been no different.

(on camera): The aftermath of this earthquake is hard to watch. All of us here under a lot of pressure being surrounded by the devastation and the ever present stench of death takes its toll. But part of this job is to be able to put yourself in other people's shoes, because from there, it looks much worse.

(voice-over): We found Mohammed Wasim (ph) picking through the debris of his school. When the earthquake struck he was the only one in his class to get out alive.

At 14, he's just a kid, imagine his life with no friends. Add to that no food, no shelter, and you start to get a picture of what tens of thousands of people in Pakistan now face.

In the remote town of Balakot (ph), we arrived by helicopter well before the relief efforts, and we were mobbed.

They thought we had supplies they desperately needed. Tried to snatch our bags.

It's hard to explain to people who have lost everything. You have nothing to give. But we had to.

(on camera): It is at times like that I really start to think about what it is that we do and whether it's right as seats on board helicopters could have been filled by injured survivors waiting to be evacuated. Maybe we should have brought medicines to be distributed. We could have saved lives.

(voice-over): It is an agonizing dilemma. And the reporters' curse. To witness events and only hope it makes a difference. Matthew Chance, CNN, Muzaffarbad in Pakistan-controlled Kashmir.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: Tests confirm health officials worst fears about bird flu spreading to Europe. The H5N1 strain is that virus that devastated flocks in Asia has now infected birds in Romania. It seems to supports the theory that the deadly virus can be spread by migrating birds. While bird flu does not easily infect humans, many health officials worry it could mutate into a strain that does.

And there's been a rush to stockpile Tamiflu, the antiviral drug that has been effective in the H5N1 strain that killed 60 people in Asia. But public health experts warn you need to double the dose to protect yourself. The amount of Tamiflu set aside in the U.S. right now is only enough to protect a small part of the population. The U.S. hopes to stockpile more, but so do other nations.

From bird flu to the more common human variety, flu vaccine shortages heightened fears in past year. This winter, almost 100 million doses are expected to be available. Who should get a flu shot or the nasal spray vaccine? Dr. Bill Lloyd is in Chicago to talk about all of that.

Good to see you.

DR. BILL LLOYD, UC-DAVIS MEDICAL CENTER: Hi, Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: It's always so confusing as we get close to the winter months that really bring on the onset of flu. Who should get a flu shot, and who should be worried?

LLOYD: It's a straightforward proposition -- folks who should get a flu shot are least prepared to handle such an infection. So people who are over 65 should get a flu shot. Children between 6 months and 23 months should get a flu shot. Pregnant woman should get the flu shot but only get the virus that's asleep not the live virus that's available in the flu vaccine.

Other people that have other existing health problems should receive the flu vaccine. But you shouldn't get the flu vaccine if you have a fever.

WHITFIELD: Last year there were a lot of restrictions about who was available to get the flu shot because of the contaminated supply, etc. This year, do you anticipate the same kind of problem or same sort of restrictions?

LLOYD: The CDC says the logistics for distributing the flu vaccine are much better this year, as you mentioned, 100 million or more doses will be available as the winter outbreak continues. The big issue is now getting them distributed. The vaccine is good, it's been staged where it needs to be, now we have got to get it down to the hospitals, the clinic and the individual doctor's offices, and that's moving along at a proper pace, and in the week or so, most local clinics will have the flu vaccine available.

WHITFIELD: And we talk about the flu, and we're talking about the avian flu or bird flu, a lot of folks are confused what's the difference? Does it mean if you're susceptible to getting the regular more common strain of flu, that perhaps you could be susceptible to the bird or avian flu as well?

LLOYD: It's important to know there have been no case of human to human transmission of the bird flu. But the bird flu does come from the exact type A flu family that we see in the usual winter outbreak. They are chemically very similar. So the concern is if the bird flu gets introduced into the human population, it could spread very quickly.

It would behave like any other flu, though, and the vast majority of people wouldn't have a problem with it other than having the flu for a few days. But from that list we mentioned earlier, folks that are susceptible and have existing medical problems there the ones that could in trouble if somehow, someday, they were able to contract the avian flu.

WHITFIELD: And we mentioned it earlier in our reporting about the Tamiflu, that being one, you have got to take double dose in order to fend off the avian flu. Do you see in the states there might be a rush to get that kind of Tamiflu supply here in this country?

LLOYD: Well, there's three known antiviral medications that are readily available that can be taken to protect you from getting the flu. They probably work 80 to 90 percent of the time. Tamiflu is one of them. And there is a limited supply, but again, just like the vaccines, identify the people who are at greatest risk and let them have the medication, the rest of us have to follow the usual precautions, getting your vaccines, good hygiene, and if you do come down with the flu, you've got two days to take one of those anti-viral medications.

WHITFIELD: Dr. Bill Lloyd, always good to see you. Have a good weekend.

LLOYD: We'll talk again soon.

WHITFIELD: Well, there's a new worry for pet owners as well. The CDC confirms that dog flu is spreading across the U.S. Our Peter Viles reports this new strain jumped from horses to dogs.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PETER VILES, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Scooter is 10 years old and has got good years left. A couple of weeks ago he was on death's doorstep.

ALMA WHITLOW, DOG OWNER: At one point he sort of just gave up, he found a cool spot to lay, I was keeping him in the house, he would go in the basement and that's, it I'm done.

VILES: Scooter was suffering from dog flu, a new strain of a flu found only in horses for 40 years but recently jumped to dogs. Symptoms, a loss of appetite, fever and a bad cough that can lead to pneumonia.

WHITLOW: But the cough really cinched it because it was a violent cough and his whole body just sort of shook.

VILES: Scooter is being treated by Dr. Jon Bernstein, a California vet who has now spotted four cases of the new flu.

DR. JON BERNSTEIN, VETERINARIAN: When a virus mutates into a new species, it spreads like wildfire because that particular species has no historic immunity or exposure to that virus.

VILES: The Centers for Disease Control reports the flu has infected dogs in Florida, New York and Massachusetts, but says there is no evidence yet the dog flu can spread to humans. Still, it's highly contagious spreading in kennels and at greyhound race tracks, and dog owners a growing concern.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm beginning to feel like not taking my dog anywhere because I'm afraid of my dog getting sick.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It really concerns me, because these guys need to get out. They need to get out and run and I love bringing them here to run in.

VILES: Contrary to rumors, the flu is not fatal. Infected dogs should be isolated from other dogs and treated with antibiotics.

BERNSTEIN: This has not got a high mortality rate. This disease has a low mortality rate. The number is unknown but it may be one to five percent of dogs might die.

VILES: Scooter is still sluggish but his appetite and personality are coming back. Peter Viles for CNN, Los Angeles.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WHITFIELD: All right. That's scary.

CAROL LIN, CNN ANCHOR: How many more things do we have to worry about.

WHITFIELD: No kidding, it just is getting complicated all the time. Anyway, you are going to uncomplicate things for us, aren't you?

LIN: Of course we're covering all the day's news at 6:00 Eastern. But really interesting story in "New York Magazine." I've interviewed a fertility expert as well as the author of this new article about women freezing their eggs not embryos but their eggs so a 40-year-old could use her 22-year-old eggs someday when she finds the perfect mate or her career has blossomed. It's women stopping the clock.

So that's in our fountain of youth segment at 6:00. At 10:00 Randi Kaye vr has a fascinating interview with the husband of a woman accused of trying to cut her neighbor's baby out of her belly. It's a horrible case. She had faked her own pregnancy, the husband is utterly shocked and has much more to say about this ongoing criminal investigation.

WHITFIELD: That is frightening and seemingly happening all too much more often these years.

LIN: It seems ever since the Laci Peterson trial, the premise of someone going after somebody else's fetus is out there.

WHITFIELD: Carol Lin, we'll be watching, thanks. And we'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: Another sign of life being restored in New Orleans. More than six weeks now since Hurricane Katrina. The mail is now being delivered. CNN followed d a U.S. Postman on his first run since August.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Many people thought with all the work we'd be back up and running in a week. It's almost six weeks, four to six weeks is pretty bad on mail.

We just take first class mail here, that's all you got so far. And priority. Today it's like a stack for everybody. Customers are ling up. I should, they wanted to get their mail. This is it right now.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you.

And they say, when are you going to bring the mail on the street?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And they're bills.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Especially the checks, waiting for social security and fema response and everything. These people got a lot of mail.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's the first time I think, since before the storm.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You see the flies on that.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Nothing until this time, we've had no mail delivery.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They wave and do a double take. Is that the mailman we've just seen?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's a pleasant sight, actually?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We didn't stick around. When we got back, we had all this mail, this work piled up.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Things are getting back to normal.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Getting back into the route and being out here it is normal again, being out here, you got to go home to a different house.

I live in St. Bernard, we 10 ten to 12 foot of water everywhere in the neighborhood. So we lost everything we own. The only thing we had is what we took, which wasn't much. Postal employees wanted to make their way back.

I came home, left my wife and two kids up north, and they came back two week just like you, you evacuated for six weeks? So did I.

The post office didn't stay open while they were gone. My card, my debit card is lost in the mail. Today it is first class, tomorrow maybe it will be magazines and parcels until we get it all back to normal. The job goes on. That's why I'm here.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WHITFIELD: A tough job at that. That was U.S. postman Corey Bastor (ph) followed around New Orleans by CNN cameraman Don Swan (ph).

So much more ahead on CNN. Straight ahead, CNN PRESENTS: "Progress Report II." And in depth look at what's working and not working in the battle of stability to Iraq.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: Hello, I am Fredricka Whitfield. Here's what's happening now in the news.

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