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CNN Live Saturday

State Department Warns Against Traveling To Paris Suburbs; Interview with Don Clark

Aired November 05, 2005 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

CAROL LIN, CNN ANCHOR: A warning for Americans in Paris. We are going have the latest on the violence in France.
And pirates attack a cruise ship. Find out how the crew responded when a vacation turned into a nightmare.

And Clinton on Clinton. Does the former president think his wife would make a better president than he did?

Hello, and welcome to CNN LIVE SATURDAY. I'm Carol Lin.

All that and more, after this quick check of the headlines.

President Bush is due any moment in Brazil, after leaving the Summit of Americas. The leaders are haggling hours past schedule over whether to support a free trade zone backed by the president. We are going to have an update straight ahead.

In the meantime, authorities are pretty frustrated and pretty embarrassed as they search for a death row inmate. Charles Thompson managed to walk out of a county jail Thursday. Investigators blame human error. Now, some of the victims' families are in hiding. They think he might actually come after them.

All right. Right now, we've got a developing story internationally. The top story there, French police are extremely worried about another night of violence. And rioting has raged on for the last nine nights. Right now, there is some new action, just as the U.S. embassy is warning American tourists to avoid the Paris suburbs.

Right now, CNN's Chris Burns on the telephone. Chris, what's happening?

CHRIS BURNS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (on phone): Carol, we're hearing it's a tense night of more rioting. So far, it's limited to two areas, one south of Paris. In a (INAUDIBLE) town called Grini (ph), two schools were torched, a recycling plant as well, and 15 cars. Also in the south of France, in Toulouse, 14 arson calls were responded to be firefighters.

Now, we have in the Paris area some 2,300 extra police deployed. Now, keep in mind, this is not going on in Paris itself, but this is in the areas outside, in the suburbs, where there are very poor areas of mainly immigrant areas, very poor, high unemployment. And that's where that anger is raging for a 10th night, Carol. LIN: Chris, though, efforts have been made by the French government. I mean, they've made overtures to these communities. So what more can the government do at this point?

BURNS: Well, Carol, maybe it's a matter of time for it to trickle down to the average little young person who has been carrying out these attacks. These are little teenagers, really, who've been carrying this out in the last few nights, for the most part.

And the meetings that (INAUDIBLE) have been happening over the last few days, including today, with community leaders, with religious leaders, and protests as well, people taking to the streets, led in part by religious leaders of different faiths, is calling to attention that this has got to stop. And that we talked to people on the ground on one suburb, some mediators, youths who have been mediating and trying to stop this violence...

LIN: All right.

BURNS: ... so the effort is going on, on the ground, extra police on the ground as well. There are...

LIN: All right.

BURNS: ... hopes that this will abate. They hope it will, Carol.

LIN: All right. Chris Burns, I know you're going to have a busy night. Thank you very much. Keep us posted.

We're going to be staying on top of that developing international story throughout the evening.

In the meantime, we want to go from dangerous streets to dangerous waters. Did you hear about this pirate attack? It wasn't likely on the brochure for passengers setting out on this luxury cruise. But it happened this morning off the coast of Somalia. Heavily armed pirates in two small boats attacked the "Spirit," part of the Seabourn (ph) Cruise Lines. Passengers tell us it was a harrowing adventure.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MIKE ROGERS, PASSENGER (on phone): The captain tried to run one of the boats over, but there were small boats about 25 feet long. Each one had four or five people in it. And he said he was going to do anything to stop them getting on board.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LIN: Now, the ship eventually outran the pirates' boats. One person was slightly hurt, and the ship sustained minor damage. It is now, right now, heading for the Seychelles Islands.

We're going to have more on this story when I talk to the president of the cruise lines to hear about what the crew did to save the passengers.

In the meantime, two people died in Houston today when a private jet crashed at the city's Hobby (ph) Airport. Authorities say the plane took off, the pilot immediately asked to return, and then nose- dived onto the runway. Houston's fire chief says the pilot was rushed to take off sooner than planned because there was another jet with engine trouble trying to land.

All right. Now, we want to move on to Iraq and Operation Steel Curtain. It is putting al Qaeda fighters in the crosshairs right now. This is an exclusive look at the offensive near the Syrian border. U.S. troops and Iraqi forces are taking part. U.S. military officials say they've killed dozens of insurgents in the city of Husayba (ph).

Lieutenant Colonel Dale Alford with the 3rd Battalion, 6th Marines, spoke about the assault earlier today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LT. COL. DALE ALFORD, 3RD BATTALION, 6TH MARINES (on phone): So, I mean, 100 percent urban fighting. We're in (INAUDIBLE) city with a lot of buildings, and streets are very narrow, and the Marines are moving from house to house.

TONY HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: Give us a sense of what you've been up against. We understand that you've been able to locate and disarm a lot of those improvised explosive devices.

ALFORD: Yes, we've had these, a few vehicle-borne IEDs that we've destroyed. We've had insurgents there were held up in both schools and mosques that we had to clean out.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LIN: Here in the United States, our security watch today.

American investigators are now trying to figure out if three terror suspects in Britain were planning to attack the nation's capital.

CNN's Gary Nurenberg here with more details. Gary, this is actually a case that dates back to October.

GARY NURENBERG, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Interesting case too, Carol. British investigators say one of the three men had a video slide of sites in the Washington area, including, says a senior FBI official, locations near the United States Capitol. On the same computer, a guide to making car bombs.

The three men were charged in a London court with counts including conspiracy and violating Britain's Terrorism Act. Investigators say searches of the suspects' homes uncovered papers, including the phrase in Arabic, "Welcome to jihad," and the phrase "Hospital equals attack."

Charging documents allege that the men had guides to making rocket propellant and car bombs. The images of Washington sites on one of those computers has sparked U.S. interest. FBI assistant director John Miller says, "The FBI is working with our partners overseas on the investigation. We have shared the relevant information with local law enforcement agencies concerned. There is no credible indication of any imminent threat."

Washington's mayor has not called for any major security enhancements as a result of the case.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAYOR ANTHONY WALKER, WASHINGTON, D.C.: There is some indication, both from our own evaluation of material or evidence, or certainly consultation with the federal government, that leads us to do otherwise. We're going take caution and do whatever is necessary. But we think we're doing the right amount right now.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK, (INAUDIBLE) precautions.

WALKER: Not, nothing extra, but we're always vigilant.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NURENBERG: U.S. Capitol Police Chief Terrance Gainer told CNN, "We are not frightened nor concerned. We have vigorous capability to assess the threat." Gainer says the Washington images on that computer could be described as either tourist photography or preplanning for the terrorists. Which is it? Investigators hope to know more when the men next appear in court on November 18, Carol.

LIN: I mean, Gary, they could also be just some wannabes, right? I mean, these could be just some guys pretending to be terrorists without any real capacity to do anything.

NURENBERG: Well, clearly what Scotland Yard is looking at, investigators keep using "terrorist bravado." These are young men ages 19 to 22. And the question is, are they bragging to one another, or are they connected with something far more serious and far more dangerous?

LIN: Gary, thank you.

CNN is committed to providing the most reliable coverage of news that affects your security. So stay tuned to CNN for the latest information, day and night.

Well, the hunt goes on in Texas for an escaped killer. Up next, a live update from Houston. You are going to find out more about a prisoner who apparently talked his way out of jail.

And would it be better if employers like Wal-Mart didn't have any role in providing your health care? Imagine that.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LIN: Welcome back. An escaped convicted killer is still on the loose. Write this name down, Charles Victor Thompson. He was able to walk out of a Texas jail this week. The breakout has left authorities completely embarrassed, red-faced. And many people now are terrified that they might be killed, because this man is out free.

CNN's Keith Oppenheim live from Houston tonight. Keith, what are they going to do to find this guy?

KEITH OPPENHEIM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, for one thing, Carol, they are hoping to get some tips to find Charles Victor Thompson, and they have also posted a $10,000 reward for information that would lead to his capture.

The tale of how Thompson got out of the jail behind me on one level shows that he was probably a good con artist. On another, it's not very flattering to employees here, who unwittingly let a death row murder convict walk out the front door.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

OPPENHEIM (voice-over): Charles Victor Thompson is a 35-year-old convicted killer. Prosecutors described him as a pretty boy, someone who looked appealing but was in fact deadly. On Thursday afternoon at the Harris County Jail in Houston, police say Thompson found a way to transform himself and con his way out through these doors to freedom.

CHIEF DEPUTY DANNY BILLINGSLY, HARRIS COUNTY SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT: There's a series of mistakes here. It's like a lot of catastrophic events that happened.

OPPENHEIM: Investigators believe Thompson smuggled street clothes that he wore for a court appearance back to his jail cell, and then found a way to change in a booth like this one, a booth used by meetings between attorneys and inmates.

LT. JOHN MARTIN, HARRIS COUNTY SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT: He got out of his inmate jumpsuit, the orange clothing they commonly wear, changed into his civilian clothing. He was handcuffed when he was taken into the attorney booth, and apparently he was able to get out of the handcuffs. We do not know if he had a key or if he just slipped the cuffs off.

HARRIS: It was in April of 1998 that prosecutors say Charles Victor Thompson stormed into the apartment of his ex-girlfriend, Dennise Hayslip, shot her and her new boyfriend, Darren Keith Caine (ph). Both victims died.

Thompson was found guilty and sent to death row. On appeal, Texas courts upheld the conviction, but ruled that during the trial, Thompson's right to counsel had been violated. He was granted a new sentencing hearing, but once again received the death penalty.

Officials say within 45 days, he would have been transferred back to state prison and death row. Now, he's a killer on the loose.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

OPPENHEIM: And keep in mind, Carol, that while Thompson was in prison, prosecutors say that he developed a hit list of more potential murder victims, and on that list, included on that list, were members of his ex-girlfriend's family, of his murder victims, of his murder victim.

And the cause of that, Wynona Donaghy, who's the mother of the ex-girlfriend, she has told us that she's quite afraid. She's actually under local police protection right now, and she feels that this guy will do whatever he wants to do, and she won't feel comfortable, as can you imagine, until he is back in custody.

LIN: Right, she's even said that she he is capable of doing anything. So look at the list of people who feel threatened. You've got the victim's mother, you know, the family members involved, and even, Keith, true, jurors who convicted him?

OPPENHEIM: That's right. I mean, keep in mind, this guy was sentenced to die twice. Most recently, Friday of last week is when a jury decided, just in a resentencing hearing, not on conviction, that he should be put to death, by law in Texas. And now, the panel of jurors is worried that they could also be targets now that he is loose.

LIN: All right. Well, let's hope that he's more worried about just staying under cover and getting away than trying to kill any more people. Keith, thank you.

Keith Oppenheim is going to be on this story throughout the night.

Now, you have to have so many unanswered questions, because we're asking them here, about this escape. And the biggest one, of course, is, how did a death row inmate just walk out of jail?

Former FBI special agent Don Clark joins me now.

Don, are you familiar at all with this jail facility?

DON CLARK, FORMER FBI SPECIAL AGENT: Well, I am somewhat familiar, Carol. As you know, being head of the FBI here in Houston, I've worked with this Harris County Sheriff's Department for a number of years. And quite frankly, they're a pretty good department.

(INAUDIBLE) it's somewhat appalling to see that there was such a procedural lapse in the activities that took place, and even the officials themselves have admitted that, even from the point of even having a trustee escort a death row inmate. That just doesn't pass the smell test when you look at type of maximum security that this person should have been afforded.

LIN: Right, I mean, he was only in a county facility, because he was at trial once again, right? I mean, he should have been in some kind of maximum facility. CLARK: Well, that's true. He was in here a county facility because he was going through the judicial process here. But nonetheless, the county facilities, they have to have themselves organized such that...

LIN: OK.

CLARK: ... they can handle from the most minimum security...

LIN: Right.

CLARK: ... to the maximum...

LIN: All right.

CLARK: ... security.

LIN: So the investigator in this case, and the sheriff himself, even said there were four opportunities to stop this guy before he hit the streets, right?

CLARK: Yes, that's true.

LIN: So he turns to...

CLARK: And that's the part -- Go ahead, Carol.

LIN: No, I'm saying, Don, because he turned to the deputy at one point and said, Oh, you know, I've got a meeting. Right? So this meeting, presumably with an attorney, was going to take place in a room with a plexiglass divider, but a deputy would not be present at that.

CLARK: Yes, well, normally a deputy would probably not be present if a person is meeting with his attorney. But the security should extend itself around that meeting, so that they could make sure that nothing exchanged, no one is touched, and that...

LIN: So how'd he get the clothes?

CLARK: ... no one has the opportunity to get out.

LIN: How'd he get the clothes and the phony badge, then?

CLARK: Well, now, information that I've been able to get about the clothes is that these may have been clothes that he had previously worn, and instead of turning those clothes in, that he somewhat -- he may have hidden those clothes in some place and went back to them. But there again is another security lapse. Where were the people that should have been watching him go through each one of these processes?

LIN: So what are your sources telling you? Did this guy just charm his way through the doors? Or people are just really not qualified for those jobs? People should be fired.

CLARK: Well, you know, I'll let their group and their committees decide whether they should be fired, or if even there was someone acting in complicity with him on this, so that has to be...

LIN: You mean like an insider?

CLARK: ... ferreted out too. That...

LIN: An insider?

CLARK: Yes, there could possibly have been an insider in this. I'm not saying that there was, but certainly it possibly could have been, and nonetheless, that avenue has to be explored. So you got to look at that the aspect. Then you've got to look at the rules and procedures that took place. And clearly, this guy is definitely a con man, in addition to having murdered people.

LIN: All right, so if he goes out and he kills again, Don, what do you think should happen to those people on duty when he walked out the door?

CLARK: Well, I think the system will take care of that, because you'll have to look at that on an individual basis. And we wouldn't want to prejudge what would happen to each one of them. But I'm convinced now, after hearing many of the sheriff's department people talk, that they're very serious about trying to get to the bottom of where the lapses were...

LIN: Yes.

CLARK: ... from the beginning, to the clothes, to the phony identification...

LIN: Absolutely.

CLARK: ... and two or three people checking. They've got to ferret that out...

LIN: Yes.

CLARK: ... and then once they do, they've got to take some swift action.

LIN: You bet. And every person on duty that night, or that day, rather, should be on their knees tonight in prayer that this man does not kill somebody tonight, and they catch him really soon. I think we can agree on that.

CLARK: You bet. That's what they've got to do.

LIN: All right. Don Clark, thank you very much.

CLARK: Thank you.

LIN: Well, this week, the Bush administration made the fight against bird flu a public priority. Straight ahead, CNN's Dr. Sanjay Gupta takes a look at where we stand in this fight against this deadly disease.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LIN: Indonesian officials confirm now, another person has died from bird flu, adding to the global jitters about a possible pandemic. Now, the virus has infected some 120 people worldwide, killing half of them.

President Bush has outlined an ambitious new plan for battling the disease right here.

CNN's Dr. Sanjay Gupta reports on that.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Take a look at newest threat to our national security, H5N1, or the bird flu virus. Now, it's been smoldering in Asia for years, killing millions of birds. In humans, the flu is still confined to Asia, but infected birds are cropping up all over Europe, possibly in even Canada, where they're investigating a recent spate of bird deaths.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: If the virus were to develop the capacity for sustained human-to-human transmission, it could spread quickly across the globe. Our country has been given fair warning of this danger to our homeland and time to prepare.

GUPTA: And time is crucial, because if a global bird flu epidemic were to happen, and no one's saying it is for sure, it could kill tens of millions of people. Faced with that possible disaster, the Bush administration is asking for $7.1 billion to fight a health crisis that right now doesn't even exist here.

Bird flu in humans was first detected in 1997 in Hong Kong. That year, six people perished. As the cases mounted over the years, so did the frightening facts. Of every two people that gets bird flu, one dies.

The best protection we have against that is a vaccine, but we won't have that in the foreseeable future...

(on camera): ... not in clinics, not in hospitals, not even at emergency rooms, like this one at Emory, where I work.

See, the issue is that once the vaccine is created, a new problem might arise. The virus might change, and the new vaccine might not work as well, maybe not at all.

So the president wants to spend some of that money on vaccine technology to try and speed up the whole process.

(voice-over): Another part of the plan will be obtaining more medicines like Tamiflu, which could stem the symptoms of bird flu, but not stop them. The problem now is, there aren't enough doses.

Which brings us to the most important part of the Bush plan, surveillance, specifically in Asia, that is, stopping the disease at the source. And that's a lesson we learned with grim consequences in 2003, when SARS broke out in Asia. Surveillance against that disease was inadequate, and it spread into several countries, infecting more than 8,000 people, killing nearly 800.

But as I recently learned on a trip to the Far East, no amount of money can guarantee that surveillance on the ground will stop avian flu.

(on camera): Here in Thailand, they pride themselves on having a strong surveillance system. But the Mekong River is just behind me, and on the other side of that, Laos, where they barely have a public health system whatsoever. And birds and the viruses they carry don't respect the border.

(voice-over): The Bush plan does look ahead to the possibility of bird flu crossing our own borders. The implications, huge, quarantines imposed by federal and state governments having to deal with massive shortages of isolation beds and respiratory equipment.

DR. IRWIN REDLENER, COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY: Right now, we have the makings of a pretty good idea of where we want to go. We just don't know yet how we're going to get there, or exactly how much it's going to ultimately cost us to get where we need to get.

GUPTA: But it is a start, even if it is dealing with a disaster that doesn't yet exist.

Dr. Sanjay Gupta, CNN, reporting.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LIN: Well, you've seen the tear gas and all the rioting, but the talks have been pretty tough in Argentina as well. Did President Bush get what he came for at the Summit of the Americas? We're going to show you.

And does Bill Clinton think his wife would make a better president than he was? Find out.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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