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CNN Live Saturday

New Technology May Avoid Runway Collisions; Andrea Yates' Fate;

Aired November 12, 2005 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Unfolding this hour, a CNN exclusive, Jordan's King Abdullah offers new details about this week's suicide terror bombings. Hear who he believes is behind the attacks.
Back in this country, keeping you safe on airplanes. This hour, how aviation officials are hoping better technology helps.

And check this out, a multitasking bank robber. police say this woman is not just holding up a bank, she's also holding a cell phone to her ear.

Welcome to CNN on "LIVE SATURDAY." I'm Fredricka Whitfield. Thanks for joining us. Here is a look at the headlines right now in the news.

Thousands of people have gathered in Tel Aviv for a memorial rally in honor assassinated Israeli prime minister Yitzhak Rabin. Former president Bill Clinton is among those attending. Rabin was gunned down 10 years ago this month while attending a peace rally.

Thailand is reporting another human case of bird flu. Authorities there say a one-year-old boy has tested positive for a deadly strain of the illness. He's at Bangkok at a hospital and is said to be recovering.

Major cities in France remain on edge as unrest continues. While rioting has dropped in the last few days in many areas, violence still broke out in Leon, Strasbourg and other cities.

We begin with a CNN exclusive. Jordanian officials say they have confirmed that Abu Musab al Zarqawi, head of al Qaeda in Iraq, is behind this week's deadly bombings in Amman. The suicide attacks on three hotels there killed 57 people and wounded more than 90.

In an exclusive interview today with Brent Sadler, Jordan's King Abdullah says his country will crack down and take its fight against terrorism to al Zarqawi, a native of Jordan.

Brent joins us now from Amman.

BRENT SADLER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Thanks, Fredricka.

Jordan's King Abdullah made it absolutely clear, in that exclusive interview he gave earlier today, that his security forces will renew their efforts to root out extremists loyal to the ideology of the al Qaeda network in Iraq, as well as Abu Musab al Zarqawi's followers here in the Jordanian kingdom.

The also gave more details about the team of suicide bombers that, it seams, were sent over from neighboring Iraq. Possibly, says the king, through neighboring Syria. He says that four people were involved in the three near simultaneous bomb explosions against those three hotels. Three of the men, one of them, the wife of one of the attacks.

Also, says the king, they're following up more very important leads.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ABDULLAH II, JORDANIAN KING: We have some leads and obviously we are pretty sure that the four suicide bombers are foreigners. Information, if you listen to what Zarqawi says in our initial findings, "I, Iraqi's." So only two logical places that they could have come across, either the Iraqi or the Syrian border. We've had discussions with the Syrian authorities for several years. I have personally talked to the president on issues of terrorist organizations that have come across the Jordanian border that have been creating instability here, and he has assured me, on many occasions, that he will take this up and give it his utmost attention. And I hope that he will continue to do that.

But have promises been followed up by deeds?

KING ABDULLAH: Well, we still have had problems across our borders.

SADLER: Let's just turn our attention to the peace process, which is, of course, on the sidelines, as it were, overshadowed by the war on terror. How much of an impact do you think the peace process could have positively on reducing extremism if there could be some further development's progress in that area?

KING ABDULLAH: Well, what you've said lastly, there has to progress to give hope. Where the extremists, I think, gain ground is when there's frustration. What happened recently, the pullout of Gaza, I think, was a very courageous decision. Both the Israelis and Palestinians need to capitalize on. It is a chapter of hope to all of us in the region that the Israelis and Palestinians can move forward. We just need to keep the momentum going. When the momentum stalls, that's when extremists get the upper hand and that's when they use frustration to increase terrorist activities against all of us.

SADLER: Now, Zarqawi has effectively declared war on Jordan, and there does seem to be a degree of personal vengeance here against the Hashemite Kingdom. KING ABDULLAH: You've touched on one important issue, the Hashemite Kingdom. Because we are the descendents of a profit, because we have the legitimacy to take on the extremists through Islam, I think, that's where it get personal, because it is the ideological boundaries that have been drawn between, I think, the overwhelming majority of modern Muslims and these extremists that have nothing to do with Islam. And they know that we can call them out on this.

And, I think, this is where is starts to get personal, because they run out of the arguments to be able to use whatever rhetoric and whatever propaganda they have against Jordan or against any other Muslim country in this world.

For Zarqawi to say this is an attack against the Jordanian regime, it is not. This is the excuses that al Qaeda have used against regimes, but at the end of the day, I think -- if I could be truly honest -- these extremists, all they want to do is kill fellow Muslims.

And, I think, that to walk into a lobby of a hotel, to see a wedding procession and to take your spouse with you into that wedding and blow yourself up, these people are insane.

SADLER: Your initiative to try to win the battle within Islam, what happens if that fails?

KING ABDULLAH: I think it's a failure beyond the borders of Islam. It is a challenge that many other religions will have to face. And if these extremists continue the way they are doing, we all pay the price. These people have perpetrated horrendous crimes from Bali on one side of the world, to the United States on the other. Arab, Muslim, western, eastern nations have all suffered from this. So it is a challenge that we Muslims are taking very seriously and one that we're continuing to fight. But we need to do it together, Muslims, Christians, Jews, Buddhists. All of need to come together and sign up against extremism.

SADLER: The king also says that he believes the all four bombers were involved in the operations here, sent to Iraq a new dimension because they were outsiders sent into Iraq. A new dimension that, the king said, his own intelligence services would now have to combat. Fredricka ...

WHITFIELD: And Brent, is there any way of gauging whatever support Abu Musab al Zarqawi may have had in Jordan, if this most recent attack and the ties that he has to it, has it meant that his support now, in Jordan, is diminished?

SADLER: I think what it means is that the King was satisfied to see an outpouring of Jordanian outrage in the immediate aftermath of the bombings. That might, he said, be a first step towards undermining support in some sectors of society towards the kind of ideology that's being exerted within Jordan. Just a first step, he said. But there is a possibility, doubtless given what he was saying, that the Zarqawi attach in Jordan could eventually rebound against that terror organization. But he's under no illusion that Jordan now faces more serious threats of further attacks against those terror groups.

WHITFIELD: Brent Sadler in Amman. Thanks so much.

Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice is expected to visit Jordan at some point during her 10-day trip through the Middle East and Asia. ]

In Bahrain today, she attended a U.S. sponsored forum on democracy. Rice called on Syria to stop political oppression and to release its political prisoners.

Last week, Syrian president Bashar Assad pardoned 190 political prisoners.

The war on terror will be the focus of attorney general Alberto Gonzales as he heads to Australia and Asia. He is on an eight day, four-nation tour to consult with top-level counter terrorism and law enforcement officials. Gonzales says the talks are aimed at improving coordination in the global war on terrorism.

Turning now to the fight for Iraq, United Nations secretary general, Kofi Annan, is now in the Iraqi capital. He's meeting with government and community leaders. As Annan arrived in Baghdad, new violence rocked the city. A car bomb killed four people at a busy market. And in Baquba, Iraqi police have detained nearly 400 people in a sweep aimed at rooting our terrorists.

Along with those developments, lawyers for Saddam Hussein and his co-defendants remain a target for gunmen as their trial gets ready to resume.

CNN's Aneesh Raman reports from Baghdad now.

ANEESH RAMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Less than day after Saddam Hussein's trial began, one of the 13 defense attorneys representing the former dictator and his henchmen was found dead. Killed by a single bullet. And then on Tuesday, the murder of another defense attorney. In this second assassination, the victim was driving near his home in western Baghdad.

One by one, it seems, the lawyers for Saddam and his seven co- defendants are being stalked and then murdered. All of this with Saddam's trial set to resume in less than three weeks. Not surprisingly, an obvious assassination target, the lawyer leading Saddam's defense team is calling for the trial to stop.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KHALIL DULAIMI, HUSSEIN DEFENSE ATTORNEY (through translator): The defense committee has decided to consider the November 28th date for the next hearing, cancelled and illegitimate.

(END VIDEO CLIP) RAMAN: So who is killing Saddam's lawyers and why? There are as many suspects as motives. From Sunni insurgents who simply want to stop to the trial, to Shia militias? Saddam killed tens of thousands of Shia, and for the militias, it's possible payback time for anyone associated with the former president.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LEITH KUBBA, IRAQI PRIME MINISTER SPOKESMAN: This is not an ordinary trial. This man has harmed over one million Iraqis. There is nearly one million Iraqis buried underground. And their families are waiting to see justice.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RAMAN: The Iraqi government wants to provide Saddam's lawyers security, but there is so much distrust and hatred, the attorneys have said no.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KUBBA: It's essential that protection be provided for the defense. If that can't be arranged, then the question, as a last resort, does become, where else could this trial be held.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RAMAN: There are clear security issues here, but they're balanced by a society looking for justice. This country is just two years removed from Saddam Hussein's tyranny. His shadow still lingers. His murals defaced with anger.

The fears of assassination are so strong here that only one of five judges, and only one of six prosecutors will allow their identifies to be known. It's a trial where witnesses refuse to appear out of fear for their lives. And where, one by one, the lawyers are getting killed.

Aneesh Raman, CNN, Baghdad.

WHITFIELD: The horn of Africa is a huge dilemma for maritime shipping now. The Somalia coast has emerged as hotspot of piracy on the high seas, with at least six attacks in the past week alone.

Small, fast boats like this one, it's crew bristling with weapons, apparently are being launched from a larger mother ship that's prowling the shipping lanes. the mother ship may be using pony distress flares to lure its victims within range. And as we've reported, pirates attacked this luxury cruise ship last Saturday, as it sailed along the Somalia coast to Kenya. The Seabourn Spirit was fired on but escaped to Seychelles Island without serious injury or damage.

Remembering Americans who have lost their lives in Iraq coming up. We'll visit the, so-called, Arlington West memorial that's been set up on a California beach. Also police on the lookout for a suspected bank robber who can't seem to stop talking on her cell phone. And we'll check out a new carton on TV, Boondocks, that has the same bite as the comic strip by the same name.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: Welcome back to CNN "LIVE SATURDAY." I'm Fredricka Whitfield.

Hundreds of white crosses are in place on the beach in Santa Monica, California. They're part of a memorial called Arlington West. It's in honor of American troops who've lost their lives in Iraq.

CNN's Kareen Wynter is with us now from Santa Monica. Kareen.

KAREEN WYNTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi there, Fredricka. It's really a touching tribute, as you mentioned, honoring those servicemen who have died while fighting, serving their country and fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan.

I'm right along the beach here in Santa Monica, and this memorial you see behind me was started by Vietnam Veterans about two years ago. Right in front of me are these crosses, and there is so many of them.

This one has a personal message to Sergeant Michael Yashinski (ph). And someone wrote on there, "We thank you and your family." And so this is the type of environment that's out here right now. Strangers, family members, people coming out and showing their support on this very special weekend.

Also in the backdrop, well this scene really speaks for itself; you can see those flag-draped coffins with pictures of those who've died while fighting in Iraq. There's actually going to be a procession. About 45 minutes from now, where those coffins are taken through the streets. And I spoke with event organizers who say that today is really a day of grieving. That it's not a platform for making any kind of political statements. They're not out here to bash the Bush administration.

We have some guests that we want to bring in right now.

Mr. Mitchell, Bill Mitchell, whose son, Sergeant Mike Mitchell, actually died April 2004. Just a day before returning home.

And also, Sergeant Daniel Ruiz, who was part of his company.

Bill, let's start with you. You said you really appreciate what you're seeing out here and just a show of support.

BILL MITCHELL, GOLD STAR FAMILY MEMBER: Yes, I see this as a way in which we can honor those boys and girls whose lives has been taken prematurely. It's wonderful to come here and see my son's picture and to know that people, who just happen to be walking down the boardwalk, walking down the Santa Monica pier, you know, you see this exhibit, they come down and they see pictures of my son. I think it's important to put a face to this 2060 deaths that we know have.

WYNTER: And Danny, if we could just pan down, this was your friend, your comrade, Mike. You were part of that company to leave and you made it back home but Mike didn't.

RUIZ: No. I mean, April 4th happened and that's when the Iraqi uprising began. And he volunteered to go on a mission and that's when he was killed in action. We lost, also, two other soldiers a few months down the road, and luckily I was one of the guys able to come back.

WYNTER: Gentlemen, we thank you for your time.

This is really just a few of the stories, Fredricka, that we're hearing out here. The stories are endless. From those who lost a loved one, friends, so they're showing their support in this daylong event. Again, in about 45 minutes from now there will be a procession where those coffins in the backdrop will be taken through the streets.

And that's the latest here. Fredricka ...

WHITFIELD: All right. Kareen Wynter in, what is being called Arlington West in Santa Monica, California?

And here's a look at some other stories making news across America today.

Funerals are scheduled throughout the weekend for victims of Indiana's tornadoes. Twenty-two people were killed by the fierce storm. Most lived at this Eastbrook Mobile Home Park. One funeral home has so many services this weekend; it brought in counselors for the staff.

A shooting at a Vermont police station. An officer says he shot and killed a man who pulled a knife in the station house. The man was not in custody. He showed up for photographs and fingerprinting. He had just appeared before a judge for violating a temporary restraining order.

A Dallas area grandmother won't face charges after she shot an intruder. Police say they were chasing the man when he jumped from his moving car and, somehow, he wound up in Susan Buxton's foyer closet. She said she aimed for his leg after he tried to grab her gun.

And in San Diego, the zoo's new baby panda has a name finally. The cub will be called Su Lin, which means cute in Chinese. People have voted for the name on an on-line poll. The 100-day-old panda is still learning to walk. And is, indeed, really cute.

A comic strip jumps from the funny pages to the cartoon network. And the small screen version of the "Boondocks" maybe more politically incorrect than ever say some.

Plus, close calls on the runway. Is there any way to prevent massive aircraft from colliding? We'll have some answers straight- ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: Shopping for a new phone? Our technology correspondent, Daniel Sieberg, may have your number. Here's this weekend's edition of "Technofile."

DANIEL SIEBERG, CNN TECHNOLOGY CORRESPONDENT: All right, so who doesn't have a cell phone these days. It does seem that everywhere with all different kinds of features. And like the world needed some more cell phones, we've got some pretty cool ones here to talk about Brian Cooley from CNN.com.

Brian, the first one we're going to talk about here, the name is kind of a buzzword these days, the Razr. I haven't seen this color before though.

BRIAN COOLEY, CNET EDITOR-AT-LARGE: No, the pink Razr is the latest. And in a phone like this, that is basically a style decision, color matters. On another kind of phone it might not, but in this one it definitely does. You buy this to have a very sleek, stylish, chic product.

It's the same old Razr inside, aside from the color. That means it's got great battery life, good call quality, good Bluetooth support, but beyond that, it's just a very convenient slim phone. It's very well made though. It's got a really strong robust hinge. So it may look like it's frail but it's actually a good product.

It's $400 without activation, but you'll get around half that with a good hefty service contract.

SIEBERG: OK. Some substance with the style.

COOLEY: Yes.

SIEBERG: The next one from Sony Ericsson has a lot of features combined that are almost hidden in a sense when you look at it.

COOLEY: Well you see it here and you see a phone. You say that's great. It's got a nice big color screen, high resolution. But then you start turning it around. You see the Walkman logo on the side, because this has a Sony Walkman branded MP3 player. They really worked hard to make it a good MP3 player. We find it actually is a good MP3 player. It's no iPod, but it's pretty good considering it's an all in one.

But here's where it gets really interesting. Turn it over one more time, open the lens and you've got, what really appears to be a camera. It does feel camera-like and it's a two mega-pixel camera. If you're just taking snapshots for e-mailing or web use, that may be all the camera you ever need. All in one device. Again, this gadget here, depending on activation, it's $400 but they're down from there, with a good service contract.

SIEBERG: All right. The next one here, the Blackberry. It looks a lot different from, say, the typical Blackberry that we see so many people use everywhere.

COOLEY: Right. This one has a phone-like form factor. It's vertical. It holds in your hand like a phone. This model is the 7100T. And what this has is a much more personal device field than the Blackberry, which reminds you that you're working all the time. So it's got a very bright color screen. That's nice. It also has Bluetooth support for a wireless headset, for example. Interesting predictive keyboard. Every key stands for two or three characters and it predicts which one you want as you type. It takes some getting us to.

SIEBERG: It takes some getting use to, yes.

COOLEY: It absolutely does. You can see, it definitely has a personal feel and that it is something that is unique for Blackberry. They have not done a phone in this market sector before. This guy can be had for as little as $199 with activation. That also helps to speak to the average user. Not just the corporate fleet deployments.

SIEBERG: All right. Brian Cooley from CNN.com. Thanks for speaking with us.

COOLEY: Thank you.

WHITFIELD: Too close for comfort, planes barely missing other planes are on nation's runways.

Now, new technology that could prevent runway accidents. CNN's "LIVE SATURDAY" continues right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: Taking bank robbery to another level. One particularly brazen robber in northern Virginia has just about everybody in the country on speed dial because she appears to be phoning it in.

Here's CNN's Brian Todd.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): She looks distracted. Maybe even rude. But law enforcement officials in northern Virginia say this young lady is more focused than she appears.

STEVE SIMPSON, SHERIFF, LOUDOUN COUNTY, VIRGINIA: In this particular bank, when she went in, was apparently on the cell phone when she went in the door. Went over to the teller, handed her a note, opened up a brown purse and showed her that there was a handgun inside the purse. The teller gave her the money and out the door she went.

TODD (on camera): At this bank and two others in northern Virginia, law enforcement officials say the woman was on her cell phone the entire time she was conducting robberies. They say she's robbed a total of four banks in the area over the past month. All of them branches of Wachovia Bank.

(voice-over): No one's been hurt and officials won't say how much money she's gotten away with. But there are key questions authorities say they cannot answer. Is she talking to an accomplish? Is the person at the other end directing her, reassuring her, or even threatening her? Is there someone at the other end or is the phone just a prop? Authorities and criminologists also have different theories on why she's using a phone.

JACKIE SCHNEIDER, PROFESSOR AND CRIMINOLOGIST: She may be thinking that it's a distraction. She just looks like a normal person talking on the cell phone, and the bank teller isn't suspicious in any way, shape or phone. I mean, there's no guns blazing, there's no hooded, you know, scary people coming in.

TODD: Only a person described by authorities as a five-foot-five Hispanic woman, 18-20 years old, with dark curly hair and a unique MO.

Brian Todd, CNN, Ashburn, Virginia.

WHITFIELD: Airports safety and mistakes in the control tower. Planes getting too close for comfort. Is there a way to prevent it.

Plus, convicted of drowning her children, but now Andrea Yates may get a new trial. What are the potential legal avenues? Our experts weigh in.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: On this edition of "Tips from the Top," Venezuelan immigrant discovers success in the law.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CAROLINA COLIN-ANTONINI, IMMIGRANT DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Being successful is not a simple formula. It is an attitude that you think about every aspect of your life. You have to follow your passion. You have to work hard. You have to be proud of who you are and where you came from. You have got to serve your community.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE CORRESPONDENT: Twenty-six years ago, Georgia's first Latino judge, Carolina Colin-Antonini, immigrated to the U.S. from Venezuela. Now, she rallies for others entering the country. The award winning attorney currently heads up her own practice, teaches law at Georgia State University and mentors novice attorneys through the American Immigration Lawyers Association. Antonini says her verdict for a prosperous life is ethics.

COLIN-ANTONINI: How you treat your family and how you treat your clients, that is success.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) WHITFIELD: A look now at our top stories. U.N. Secretary General Kofi Annan is in Baghdad for a one-day visit to Iraq. He's meeting with Iraq's top political and community leaders as well as U.N. staffers there, and urged Iraqis to take part in the upcoming election for a permanent government.

Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice made a stop in Bahrain today for a conference on the future of the region. Rice is expected to add Jordan to her Middle East trip following this week's suicide attacks there.

And in Tel Aviv, thousands of Israelis are honoring the assassinated Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin. He was gunned down ten years ago this month in the square that now bears his name. Rabin was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize for his work on the 1993 Oslo Accord with the Palestinians. Former President Bill Clinton is expected to address the crowd in the next hour. A state memorial is planned for Monday.

In the U.S., an alarming statistic. Aviation officials say hundreds of times this year, planes came close to colliding on runways. CNN's Kathleen Koch reports on efforts to dramatically reduce the number of these frightening near misses.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KATHLEEN KOCH, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's aviation safety officials' worst nightmare: two massive aircrafts colliding on a runway. It happened in the Canary Islands in 1977, killing 582 people. In the United States, 59 people have died in runway collisions involving commercial aircraft since 1990.

According to National Transportation Safety Board, from January through August of this year, there were 324 cases where planes had a runway incursion, potentially risking a collision.

MARK ROSENKER, ACTING CHMN., NTSB: That's too many. And to run on just luck and perhaps some outstanding airmanship to revert these types of terrible, terrible disasters is not a way to run our nation's air system.

KOCH: The NTSB Tuesday will call for the development of a system to give pilots immediate warning of a possible collision, something it's asked for since 1990. The Federal Aviation Administration says it is improving runway safety by requiring better runway markings where taxiways and runways intersect.

It's also testing a system of red lights at Dallas-Fort Worth Airport to let pilots know they're approaching a runway where a plane is taking off or landing. The FAA released animation recreating a near runway collision between two planes in Boston in June, then how that same incident could have been prevented if such a red light system had been in place.

(on camera): But that system is years from final approval and even then there's no guarantee it would be funded. (voice-over): One system is going into 14 airports that will for the first time allow air traffic controllers in any type of weather to locate and identify planes on the runway.

MARION BLAKEY, FAA ADMINISTRATOR: Including specifics about the direction, the name of the aircraft, exactly what its tail number is, et cetera, so they can really make a quick call in terms of, hey, this one's getting too close to the line, too close to another aircraft.

KOCH: Air traffic controllers applaud the improvements, but wish they would come sooner and cover more airport.

JOHN CARR, NATL. AIR TRAFFIC CONTROLLER ASSN.: There's more than just 14 airports in this country with complex runway layouts, heavy passenger implanements, lots of physical air traffic movement that really need the technology now.

KOCH: Some say that creates a have and have not situation when it comes to runway safety. Kathleen Koch, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WHITFIELD: In our legal briefs this weekend, a look at the case of Andrea Yates. You might remember, she's the Texas woman serving a life term for drowning three of her five children in a bathtub. She was not tried in the drowning deaths of the other two.

This week a Texas appeals court let stand a lower court ruling that overturned Yates' conviction. now, her attorney hopes he can now get a plea bargain.

Here to unravel that decision are Avery Friedman and Richard Herman. Good to see both of you gentleman.

AVERY FRIEDMAN, LAW PROFESSOR: Hi, Fredricka.

RICHARD HERMAN,: Hi, Fred.

WHITFIELD: Avery, let me begin with you. She can have a new trial if she wants it, at the same time, her attorney may think about negotiating some sort of plea deal. What would be the best route?

FRIEDMAN: This is Texas. It strikes me that the best that counsel can do for Andrea Yates is try to work a plea deal. Now, on the other hand, the government, the prosecution, relied on one primary witness for securing that conviction, Dr. Deets (ph). And the difficulty was that he was blown up. He actually was mistaken, at best, about describing ...

WHITFIELD: A "Law & Order" television show influence ...

FRIEDMAN: Right, describing that to the defendant. There's was no basis in that, and that was the fundamental reason why the court of appeals reversed. So unless the prosecution can get a first class witness saying that she was incapable of understanding right from wrong, they're going to have some problems. I think they can. WHITFIELD: So, Richard, is that the way you see it? I mean, the prosecution really is up against the wall here in that with at least one potentially fewer witness, they might as well go the route of a plea deal?

HERMAN: Well, my understanding is the prosecutor will agree to an insanity plea, and therefore, this case will be going to trial again. The difficulty is that the perfect (ph) ...

WHITFIELD: All right. Sorry about that, Richard. We're going to have to clear up your signal and then when we do, bring you back because it's pretty terrible, frankly, right now. But we want to hear your input on this. All right. Well, Avery, let me -- let's bring it back a little bit. You know, how did it even come to this? It took quite a while.

You know, you talk about the one discredited witness and his parallels that he was trying to make with the "Law & Order" television show and apparently "Law & Order" said we didn't do a show like this that would, you know, have a very interesting, similar experience than what Andrea Yates is on trial for doing, drowning her kids. So how did it come to this then?

FRIEDMAN: Well, it was actually worse than that, Fredricka. What happened was that Dr. Deets farms himself out to prosecutors around the country and he does a lot of consulting work. So when he took the stand after the defense put on five witnesses to prove that Andrea Yates was incapable of understanding right from wrong, Dr. Deets took the stand and indicated in his testimony that she did.

And part of the predicate of that was that he talked about an episode where he consulted with "Law & Order" and he basically set up the premise that Andrea Yates may have very well seen the show. The problem is, there was no such show.

And to his credit, and I think this is very important, he communicated with both the prosecution and the defense before the jury deliberated. And you know what? The judge refused to consider having Dr. Deets come back.

WHITFIELD: And, Richard, we have you back now. The signal is clear. And it's very clear that you are disagreeing.

HERMAN: Well, I blew the signal out because I have got to tell you, this (INAUDIBLE) ...

WHITFIELD: All right. Boy, Richard ...

FRIEDMAN: You've got a problem with that.

WHITFIELD: Something's not working here with that signal.

FRIEDMAN: Well, let me clarify one thing. I think what's very important to understand is after Dr. Deets communicated with both the defense and the prosecution, both parties said to the judge, listen, the basis upon which this conviction is totally fallacious, it's false.

And you know what? The judge refused to consider a mistrial motion, not by the defense, but by the prosecution. And so it really created reversible error on a silver platter. And there was little question that the court of appeals was going to reverse -- the highest court of appeals on criminal matters, affirmed that it had to be reversed. It has got to go back to trial.

Aside from that dispute, her mental competence, obviously, was on trial the first go round. Her mental competence is still going to be the centerpiece of whatever legal route is taken this go round, how might the attorneys try to convey to the court whether it ends up being a trial, whether it ends up being, you know, a plea deal made with the prosecutors, her state of mind?

FRIEDMAN: Well, it's really difficult to understand how any thinking reasonable, rational human being could do the horrific things that Andrea Yates did. And It struck me as I was doing commentary during the trial when it was going on many years ago, that she not introduced one, she introduced score of experts who said there's simply no way.

A Texas jury actually accepted the testimony of that one expert, Dr. Deets and that's what made the difference. So it seems to me that the defense lawyers are in a lot stronger position now, dealing with the prosecution, to see if they can strike a plea deal.

WHITFIELD: All right. Avery Friedman, thank you so much. And thanks for hanging in there ...

FRIEDMAN: Sure.

WHITFIELD: ... and picking up where unfortunately, we are never able to have Richard silenced. Unfortunately this signal, a murky signal.

FRIEDMAN: Hey, I think it's a joy.

WHITFIELD: Well, you may have enjoyed it, but I know he didn't. All right. Well, we always love to have both of you. Thanks so much ...

FRIEDMAN: Nice to see you.

WHITFIELD: ... and sorry again to Richard for that signal not working out.

A controversial comic strip leaps from the funny pages on to the television screen but not without making waves over the use of one very ugly word.

And at 4:00 p.m. Eastern, you can't be too careful these days. Dramatic video of a mother and baby trapped in a subway door. It showed that some every day conveniences may not be completely family friendly. You won't want to miss that story.

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WHITFIELD: TV cartoons aren't ordinarily controversial, but then "Boondocks" is no ordinary cartoon. The show airs on the Cartoon Network, owned by Time Warner, parent of this network.

"The Boondocks" tackles political sensitive topics and uses language that some people find highly offensive. And this morning, some of our viewers might find the following story offensive. CNN entertainment correspondent Sibila Vargas reports now.

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Excuse me, everyone, I have a brief announcement to make. Jesus was black, Ronald Reagan was the devil and the government is lying about 9/11. Thank you for your time and good night.

SIBILA VARGAS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Welcome to "The Boondocks," a place where political correctness is dead, sexual talk is frank and some people use the n word.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We don't use the n word in this house

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Grand dad, you said the word (EXPLETIVE DELETED) 46 times yesterday. I counted.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (EXPLETIVE DELETED) hush.

VARGAS: In fact, the n word is used quite liberally, and that has some people in the African-American community up in arms.

(on camera): So what's wrong with "The Boondocks"?

EARL OFARI HUTCHINSON, AUTHOR, POLITICAL ANALYST: The cartoon series itself would be fine except for the use of the n word. It's a vial, vicious, lethal, offensive word. And that's the kind of word that we don't want so see.

VARGAS (voice-over): Author and political analyst Earl Ofari Hutchinson wants to eradicate the racial epithet on the series, so he is challenging "Boondocks" creator, Aaron McGruder.

HUTCHINSON: We want to try to get across to Aaron, look, you have got a wide audience. People are watching you -- literally watching you. People hang on every one of your cartoon words, character words. So come on. Be more responsible in what you do.

VARGAS: McGruder is no stranger to controversy. His award- winning comic strip is published in about 350 newspapers daily. And just recently a few temporarily pulled the strip for the its use of the n word.

AARON MCGRUDER, WRITER, CREATOR OF "THE BOONDOCKS": The show is about telling jokes from my point of view and humor and aspects of life. And we do politics and we do tell those jokes. And I'm not ashamed of my agenda. VARGAS: We contacted both McGruder and the Cartoon Network, which is owned by CNN's parent company, Time Warner. Both had no comment about the controversy. Hutchinson and others plan to turn up the heat by holding a forum with African-Americans in Los Angeles in hopes of getting McGruder's attention.

MCGRUDER: I'm not out to change the world with a show or any form of entertainment. People have to change the world.

VARGAS: Sibila Vargas, CNN, Los Angeles.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WHITFIELD: Well, giving us her take on "The Boondocks," "New York Times" entertainment reporter, Lola Ogunnaike. She joins us now from New York. Good to see you.

LOLA OGUNNAIKE, REPORTER, "NEW YORK TIMES": Good to see you too.

WHITFIELD: All right, well, is "The Boondocks" the show true to "The Boondocks" the comic strip?

OGUNNAIKE: I think it's shoe in spirit and in sensibility. The show is not nearly as topical as the series, but it can't afford to be. It took 18 months to create 15 episodes. So by the time he got around to tackling issues that are, you know, affecting us, that -- today issues that we're discussing today, they'd be dated. So it's not nearly as topical, no.

WHITFIELD: Well, "The Boondocks" got a lot of attention at the start six years ago when it became more popularly accepted in a lot of newspapers at the time, because of some controversial -- what some people would consider to be controversial messages and approaches or his way of thinking as he puts it. So are we seeing in effect a softening of that image for television and not just because of the time restraints that you talk about?

OGUNNAIKE: I think if anyone accused Aaron McGruder of softening over the years, they'd be really wrong. If anything, I think the television show may be a little harder in a way, because it's alive, it's in motion. And you can actually hear these little kids saying these things. Reading the n word and watching adorable 10-year-olds saying the n word are two totally different things.

WHITFIELD: And in fact, didn't he shop around this idea of it becoming a, you know, comedy or a comic, or cartoon show? He shopped it around to other networks and the other networks were asking him to pare it down and this is the network that says, we'll take it as is?

OGUNNAIKE: That's exactly what happened. He tried it at FOX. That's originally where he wanted it, but, you know, network television thought the content was just too strong. Being on a cable network, he has more flexibility and Mike Lazzo, head of Cartoon Network, said, look, Aaron, we don't want you to water anything down. We want you to do exactly what you do. And they were true to their word. WHITFIELD: We'll talk about influential. Now he's potentially going to be in every cable television household, when for a very long time there were an awful lot of newspapers across the country that resisted putting his comic strip in their newspapers because it was so controversial. So this in a very strange, roundabout way is a huge victory for him when he got so much flak for so long.

OGUNNAIKE: Well, you know, he just managed to hang in there. And I think he's held true to his political beliefs, his convictions over the years. And finally for him, it's paying off. I think people have decided, look, we can't get rid of him, so we might as well enjoy him.

WHITFIELD: All right, well he's on the television -- Cartoon Network, right now. "Boondocks." Lola Ogunnaike of the "New York Times," thanks so much.

OGUNNAIKE: Thank you.

WHITFIELD: Rwanda, a land where people live with the pain of their history. A wildlife refuge is now a place many call home. But what will happen to the animals that live there? Jack Hanna visited the country to find out for himself, next on CNN LIVE SATURDAY.

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WHITFIELD: A new chapter in Africa's storied history is being written in Rwanda. In particular, animal experts are concerned about heavy human encroachment into wildlife habitat. CNN's Anderson Cooper has that story.

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ANDERSON COOPER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Rwanda, this breathtakingly beautiful land is soaked in blood. The people living with the pain of their history.

Akagera National Park, once a spectacular wildlife refuge, is now refuge to many Rwandans who survived the genocide and returned to their native land trying to start life anew. There are so many people in Rwanda now, they've taken over two-thirds of the national park. And because of that, Rwanda now faces a problem. What will happen to the wildlife? How will the animals coexist with humans?

That's what Jack Hanna, the renowned wildlife advocate, wanted to find out as he went in search of wild elephants. They're said to be 80 elephants in Akagera. But for Hanna and his crew, finding even one was not unlike looking for that proverbial needle in a haystack.

JACK HANNA, DIRECTOR EMERITUS, COLUMBUS ZOO: Now, the elephant is back that way, right?

COOPER: Hanna hired a boat to take him to a fishing village where there had been reports of a male elephant. They searched for hours and hours and finally...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: See the elephant?

HANNA: Yes, I see it!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

COOPER: But even a wildlife expert, like Hanna, was surprised to find such a mighty creature submerged in lake water. It was very unusual behavior.

HANNA: Look at that, he's like a submarine. He's going to use his trunk. Look at that. Look at him move. He is going fast. That is fast. Big elephant.

COOPER: An estimated 11 feet tall, weighing perhaps 14,000 pounds, the mature bull elephant was as big and angry as any they had seen before. And he started to pursue them.

HANNA: That is fast. Remember, elephants can swim, everybody. And they've got like a periscope. I don't know if he's walking or swimming, but he is moving.

COOPER: Hanna and his crew beat it to shore and to safety, not realizing that in April the U.S. embassy in Kigali had issued a warning to American tourists about a rogue elephant charging visitors.

HANNA: Lower your trunk. Go like this.

COOPER: On shore, Hanna was greeted by local kids.

HANNA: Trunk. That's it! That's it!

COOPER: And in exchange for his kindness, they shared a little- known secret about the rogue elephant. It turns out this monster of the deep was, in fact, an old friend of the children's. And to prove it, they lured him in with sweet words and sweet potatoes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hello. Hello.

HANNA: Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you. That's something else. That's all I can tell you.

COOPER: Akagera National Park may not be all that it once was, nor, of course, is Rwanda. But Jack Hanna says that there is a sense of healing. And, as in the mighty steps of elephants, there are small steps being made towards recovery.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WHITFIELD: Still much more ahead on CNN LIVE SATURDAY. At the top of the hour, "CNN 25," "Entertainment Weekly's" list of the top 25 pop culture moments from the past quarter century.

And at 4:00, CNN LIVE SATURDAY and more on our gas price watch. Did the Congressional hearings on Wednesday accomplish anything?

And at 5:00, elects in New Orleans. Can the city pull it together and have voters cast ballots as scheduled? But first, we'll have all the day's top stories right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: Hello, I'm Fredricka Whitfield at the CNN Center in Atlanta. "CNN 25," "Entertainment Weekly's" hit list is next but first a look at the top stories.

Jordan's King Abdullah tells CNN that this week's hotel bombers were members of al Qaeda in Iraq. He vowing to take the fight to the group's leader, Abu Musab al-Zarqawi. Fifty-seven people were killed in those attacks.

And U.N. Secretary General Kofi Annan is in Baghdad for a one day visit to Iraq. He's meeting with Iraq's top political and community leaders, as well as U.N. staffers.

And north of Baghdad, more than 380 people are being detained after a series of raids in Baquba.

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