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CNN Live Saturday

Holiday Shopping Frenzy Begins; Lawyers For Saddam Hussein Seek Another Delay In Trial; Could Terrorists Use Untrustworthy Airport Employees For Terrorist Attacks?; Yakima, Washington Police Still Searching For Escapees, Two Have Been Captured; Long Lines In New Orleans; Zoo Reopens In New Orleans

Aired November 26, 2005 - 14:00   ET


TONY HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: If you're traveling tomorrow, listen up. You could be in for a long wait. We'll explain why.
Shopping frenzy. We will check in with Susan Lisovicz in Paramus, New Jersey, to see how things are going in one of the biggest malls in the northeast in just a moment.

And his trial is scheduled to resume in less than 48 hours. But Iraqis may have to wait, yet again, to bring Saddam Hussein to justice. A live report from Baghdad is minutes away.

Welcome everyone to CNN LIVE SATURDAY. I'm Tony Harris, in for Fredricka Whitfield. Those stories in a moment. But first, other headlines now in the news.

In Washington State, police are still looking for four inmates who broke out of a jail in Yakima. The inmates escaped using a rope made from bed sheets. One of them is charged with second-degree murder.

Five other inmates also trying to escape were quickly captured.

U.S. Central Command says two American soldiers in Afghanistan will face nonjudicial disciplinary action after they burned the bodies of two Islamic militants. Two other soldiers will face similar punishment for making unauthorized broadcasts.

Military officials say both incidents took place last month. The military says two of the soldiers burned the bodies for hygienic reasons. And the other two broadcasted a propaganda message, taunting Taliban fighters. Islam forbids the burning of bodies.

In Azerbaijan, police cracked down on a peaceful protest. Demonstrators gathered in the capital of Baku today to protest the outcome of parliamentary elections earlier this month. They claim the elections were rigged. When they tried to stage a demonstration at a city square, police responded by beating demonstrators to break up the protest.

On this holiday weekend, a major concern for many travelers. Severe thunderstorms and some heavy snow could make your trip home hazardous. Details are just ahead. But first, we begin with a crazy start to the holiday shopping season. It all kicked off yesterday, with thousands of Americans hitting the stores and malls in search of bargains.

The crowds in some areas were huge. And along with the crowds, a security reminder. Law enforcement officials have reissued an advisory, and warns that shopping areas could be attractive targets to terrorists. The Homeland Security official say it's not based on any new intelligence. And there's no information that al Qaeda is planning to attack retail shops.

In Annapolis, Maryland, a tough start for the holiday shopping season. A fire caused major damage to three buildings in the heart of the city's downtown shopping district. Officials call it a heavy blow, especially this time of year.

And check out this scene yesterday in Michigan. As the doors opened at this store, a shopper was knocked down and trampled as the crowds surged inside.

One of the biggest malls in the northeast was wall-to-wall with people as the holiday shopping season kicked off. It's the Gordon State Mall in Paramus, New Jersey, just outside of New York City.

CNN's Susan Lisovicz is braving the crowd there's today. And braving it with a smile on her face. Good to see you, Susan.

SUSAN LISOVICZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: All right, Tony. And all I can say is I'm so glad I have worked on the floor of the New York Stock Exchange. Because I'm getting that familiar, cozy, claustrophobic feeling and with good reason.

Industry experts say 130 million of us will be shopping this Thanksgiving holiday weekend. So it's real nail biting, finger- crossing time. And so far, the signs are good.

Here at the Garden State Plaza, in Paramus, New Jersey, there are 280 stores, two million square feet of retail. The folks here say 100,000 people walked through the doors yesterday. A five- percent increase over the year before.

And nationally we're hearing, Wal-Mart, Sears, Macy's are seeing bigger increases over the year before. The National Retail Federation, in fact, earlier this week, raised its forecast by a percentage point to six percent, year-over-year increases for the holiday season, because they say people feel like they have a little bit more money in their pockets because gas prices have come down so much.

So, what do people want this holiday season? We talked to the experts.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A Woody doll. Hold it up.

LISOVICZ: Do you like that?


LISOVICZ: Is he your favorite?


LISOVICZ: Why do you like him?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Because he's got a guitar.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The DVD movie "Polar Express."

LISOVICZ: "Polar Express." What else?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "Charlie and the Chocolate Factory."



LISOVICZ: What's on your Santa list this year?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hot wheels cars and Yu-Gi-Oh cards.


LISOVICZ: OK, so what is on the adult list for Santa. Let me see. We've got XBOX 360. Good luck. You're going to have to go on e-bay for that. That one's so hot.

Other hot games, Tony, "50 Cent Bulletproof," "Need for Speed." As well as video iPods, Nano, cashmere, leather, suede. All of them accepted in my household, Tony.

HARRIS: Yes, yes, yes.

LISOVICZ: Twenty-eight days to go until Christmas.

HARRIS: Twenty-eight days? Is that what it is, twenty-eight days? "Need for Speed?" What is that, a video game or something? Is that what that is?

LISOVICZ: Yes. It's a video game.

HARRIS: From the rapper, 50 Cent. Oh, boy. Can't wait. OK, Susan, thank you.

We want to get a check of weather with CNN Meteorologist Brad Huffines. And, Brad, we understand that the weather could turn treacherous for a lot of folks heading back home tomorrow.


HARRIS: OK, Brad, thank you. As Americans pack the nation's airports, concerns are being raised about groups of workers who keep the planes running. Those concerns stem from the arrest of several airport workers accused of taking part in a drug smuggling ring. The case proves that positions of trust can be exploited in many work environments, including airports. Authorities fear terrorists could take advantage of the situation.

Here's CNN's Homeland Security correspondent, Jeanne Meserve.


JEANNE MESERVE, CNN HOMELAND SECURITY CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): An international flight lands at New York's Kennedy Airport, and a score of people rush to unload, clean, restock and refuel it. It is the perfect opportunity for crime.

TYRONE BROWNE, PRISON ESCAPEE: On it, it is written in a pink marker JJ123.


BROWNE: Right.

MESERVE: Wiretaps were key in busting up a drug smuggling ring at JFK in 2003. In Operation Snowstorm, 400 kilos of cocaine were seized, along with hundreds of pounds of marijuana. Twenty-four people pled guilty or were convicted. All of them airport employees who had undergone background checks.

ROSLYNN MAUSKOPF, U. S. DISTRICT ATTORNEY: This was a classic inside job. The defendants' status as airport employees gave them unfettered access, unlimited opportunity, and the ability to act with virtual impunity.

MESERVE: Authorities worry that terrorists could use the same method and people to smuggle weapons of mass destruction.

MARTIN FICKE, IMMIGRATION & CUSTOMERS ENFORCEMENT: Today, narcotics; tomorrow, it could be something much more dangerous.

MESERVE: As Customs and Border Protection and Immigration and Customs Enforcement try to plug this hole in homeland security, they study the smugglers tactics. Sometimes conspiring airport workers switch luggage tags, so a drug-laden suitcase looks like it came off a domestic flight and avoids customs inspection.

Drugs are concealed in cargo, cargo containers, even the aircraft itself.

FICKE: Your imagination is your guide. I mean, we've found it in the cargo hold, in the doors. We've found it under the floors. We've found it in the lavatories. And on a few occasions, we've actually found it in the cockpit.

MESERVE: A lawyer respecting an Operation Snowstorm defendant, thinks it is a leap to assume people who smuggle drugs would help terrorists.

STUART DAVID RUBIN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: They're desensitized, I guess, to the seriousness of the drug trade. But not desensitized to the seriousness of terrorism. So knowing participation in terrorist activities? Unlikely.

MESERVE: But there's big money in smuggling, as much as $50,000 a flight. There is intimidation. And with 35,000 employees at JFK, with access to as many as 200 flights a day, and with hundreds of thousands of workers at other ports of entry, no one thinks this problem is solved.

Jeanne Meserve, CNN, New York.


HARRIS: The U.S. military says there are several reports that a close associate of terrorist mastermind Abu Musab al-Zarqawi was killed last month in a coalition raid. Abu Baida has been described as one of Zarqawi's most-trusted confidants. His is said to have used intimidation and death threats to force Iraqi people to support al Qaeda's attacks in Iraq.

The trial of deposed Iraqi dictator, Saddam Hussein, is set to resume Monday in Baghdad. But one of Hussein's attorneys told CNN today that he will seek a second delay.

Hussein's attorneys remain concerned about security. They say they don't have enough time to do the legal work associated with the case.

Two of s Hussein's attorneys have been assassinated since taking on his defense.

Here with more on the latest developments in Iraq, CNN's senior international correspondent Nic Robertson. He joins us live from Baghdad.

Nic, always good to talk to you. Let's get to the bottom of this attempt by the attorneys for Saddam to ask for another delay in the trial tomorrow. What really is at the bottom of this?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, they would say that they just don't feel that they've been safe enough during this sort of recess, since the trial began back in October, to focus on the case, to make their preparations to get their defense ready.

They had a meeting of seven of the defense lawyers this afternoon. There was a three-hour meeting. They agreed to a united position that when they get in the court on Monday, they, the first thing they're going to do is ask for that delay. They say, if they don't get that, then they have a second proposition to put to the judge.

But they're also making a criticism of the way the court is operating. The court is expected to get to work for about the -- the next three to four days. After that, it's expected to take another break. The lawyers, the defense lawyers, Saddam Hussein's defense lawyers are saying, "Look, if you only get to work for three or four days, that's not enough time for us to do proper legal work."

So they've got a lot of issues. But what they really seem to be doing here is calling for delays, slowing the process down. That seems unlikely at this stage that that's going to happen. But this is a legal process. So we won't really know until the judge makes his mind up in the court on Monday, Tony.

HARRIS: You know what, Nic, is that the real sense of what's going on here? That these attorneys are simply trying to slow the process down?

ROBERTSON: That's the impression that they give. They do have legitimate concerns. Two have been killed; one of them injured in targeted assassinations since the trial began. But they seem to have been floundering from the outset as to how they would actually defend these people.

One of the tactics they appear to be using is to delay the case because they don't have a very, very strong defense.

Another criticism they make is they're not trained in this type of case, whereas, the lawyers working for the prosecution have. They've been to the U.S., they've been to the U.K., to get specialized training for this Iraqi high tribunal. So there's a lot of problems associated with this and the speed of it is just one of them.

HARRIS: Nic, I just have another quick question on this and then we'll move on to one other topic. If the concern of these attorneys is about safety, I have to ask you, has a change of venue discussion been held? And has that issue been determined?

ROBERTSON: The venue is going to be the same, as we understand. It is a very, very secure location. Getting in there is very, very difficult.

But what really worries these defense lawyers is what happens when they go back home? What happens with insurgents in Iraq, is they're not just target the people they're after. They'll target their families, their wives, their children, their brothers, their cousins.

So even if a defense lawyer gets a security team around them to get into that court on time, it doesn't mean his wife or his children are going to be safe. And that's, you know, that's at the root of a lot of their security concerns, as well, Tony.

HARRIS: Yes, got you. CNN senior international correspondent Nic Robertson for us from Baghdad. Nic, as always, thank you.

And here at home, President Bush paid tribute to U.S. troops killed in Iraq and Afghanistan. In his weekly radio address, Mr. Bush expressed the nation's gratitude for the sacrifice. The president is spending Thanksgiving break at his ranch in Crawford, Texas.

Outside the ranch, on a private acre of land nearby, anti-war mom, Cindy Sheehan continues her vigil. Sheehan's son was killed in Iraq last year.

A deadly start to the day in China, as an earthquake strikes the Asian nation. Details on the situation there just ahead.

Plus, why long lines in New Orleans may actually be a good sign for the hurricane-ravaged city.

And this.


UNIDENTIFIED CNN CORRESPONDENT: How was it to meet the parents of the man who gave you your liver?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I love them. I love them. They're angels. And he was an angel to give me his liver.


HARRIS: How the gift of life brings two separate families together.


HARRIS: Let's get a check now on some other stories making news around the globe.

Palestinians assert their control over a keyboarder crossing. For more on that story and others, we turn to CNN's Shanon Cook in Control B.

Hi, Shanon.


Today was essentially like the beginning of a new era for Palestinians in Gaza. They were able to cross the Gaza border into Egypt without passing through Israeli security. Israel has guarded this border for about four decades.

Hundreds of Palestinians streamed across today at a terminal now officially under Palestinian control. But monitors from the European Union will kind of keep an eye on things for about the next year or so.

Now, to China, where thousands of people in the southeast are sleeping in tents and open-air courtyards. A magnitude 5.5 earthquake struck, killing at least 12 people and injuring hundreds of others. The quake also caused more than 8,000 homes to collapse.

Also in China, some 9 million residents have been without water for at least four days, after a toxic spill polluted the main water supply in the city of Harbin. China's premiere toured the area and praised efforts to get to the city back on track. However, a resident has filed a lawsuit against a petroleum company involved in the incident. Tony.

HARRIS: You know, Shanon, I like this story. What is this, a no last call in the U.K. now?

COOK: Yes, something like that. If you spend a bit of time in pubs in London or Britain, like I have -- I probably shouldn't admit to this -- but as the 11:00 p.m. hour rolls by, the barman rings a bell and basically you have to chug your beer and get out.

But Britain's government has introduced a new rule that allows you to stay and drink longer at the pub. The new rule essentially abolishes this 11:00 p.m. closing time that's been common in pubs for about 90 years now, since World War I.

They think by allowing people to drink longer into the night, it might prevent binge drinking and possibly reduce violence. Sometimes, it erupts when all drinkers kind of stream out of the pubs at 11:00.

HARRIS: Yes, Shanon, what do we make of this? Is this a good- good, a win-win, or is it good for drinkers? Perhaps bad for the pub owners? I don't know.

COOK: Well, it means that pubs have to stay open and keep pouring pints. But the government says that most pubs will really probably stay open an hour or two longer. So, you know, it shouldn't make too much difference.

HARRIS: All right. Shanon Cook. Good to see you, Shanon. Thank you.

COOK: Thank you.

HARRIS: It's getting busy in the Big Easy. Why long lines and packed stores are a good thing in New Orleans. Plus, the city zoo is open for business. I'll speak with the institute's president about the road to recovery.


HARRIS: We're going to give you the latest on the prison break in Yakima, Washington. We have the chief of police from Yakima on the phone with us right now.

Chief Granato, thanks for being with us.


HARRIS: And Chief, give us a sense -- I know there's been a couple of new developments in this case. What are they?

GRANATO: Well, within the last five minutes, the police department got a phone tip that two of the inmates may be hiding at a location here in Yakima.

Officers descended on the scene at the 1700 block of Dalton Lane here in Yakima. And there were -- two of the suspects, we considered the most dangerous ones, Santos Luera and Moser, who had been apprehended at that location. Officers are still on-scene, trying to make sure there's no one else hiding in that attic.

HARRIS: OK. Chief, how far away from the prison is where you found these two?

GRANATO: About four miles, basically. Not too far from the downtown area.

HARRIS: So they didn't get too far away?


HARRIS: Remind us all again of when the prison break actually took place.

GRANATO: It was shortly after 5:00 p.m., yesterday evening. The Yakima County corrections officers became aware of an escape in progress, called it in. Officers quickly responded and sealed off the area. We were able to apprehend five. I think it was four on the roof of the annex building next to the jail, and one of the grounds, captured by corrections officials.

HARRIS: So Chief, this was almost a full day on the run for these four?

GRANATO: Pretty much. Half day anyway.

HARRIS: Half day, sure. You mentioned that you captured two of whom you believe are the most dangerous. Is one of them this 20-year- old who is charged with second-degree murder?

GRANATO: That's correct. Luera.

HARRIS: And the other is who, now?


HARRIS: What was he charged with?

GRANATO: He was charged with a second-degree assault.

HARRIS: Any indication they've all been working together on this escape?

GRANATO: We're trying to ascertain that right now. We know they were all working together. These were apparently the planners of the escape, Moser in particular. He assisted with another escape a few years ago.

HARRIS: OK, and the other two, who are still at large, how dangerous do you consider them? GRANATO: Well, we consider them dangerous in the fact that we had specific information that Soto had plans to obtain two handguns in the Topenish (ph) area, a city south of here. And he was spotted there around 7:30 p.m. last night. Alaimo has been known to carry guns in the past and usually will elude police. And information is that he will not surrender willingly.

HARRIS: Boy. The fact you caught the first two relatively close to the facility, does that give you any encouragement that you will be able to catch the remaining two quickly?

GRANATO: Well, we have hopes. Obviously, someone was waiting for them on the outside to transport them. That's what we're trying to nail down right now, what kind of vehicle they may be in. Once we have that information that should give us more information to put out to law enforcement so that they can be on the lookout.

HARRIS: The Yakima chief, Sam Granato, with us on the phone. Chief, thanks for your time. We appreciate the update.

GRANATO: Thank you.

HARRIS: We'll take a break and when we come back, we will talk to the president of the Audubon Zoo in New Orleans. Life, at least in small ways, getting back to normal in New Orleans. We'll check in with the zoo and, maybe, some of it's inhabitants in just a minute.


BONNIE SCHNEIDER, CNN METEOROLOGIST: I'm CNN Meteorologist Bonnie Schneider with a look at your old and flu report for Saturday.

As we check the map, you'll find most places in the country are reporting no activity for the flu so far. So that's good news. However, there here have been sporadic outbreaks of the flu in places like Texas, Louisiana, Florida, up into the Carolinas and even into New York, further to the north, Massachusetts. Back further westward, we have sporadic outbreaks in California as well.

So keep that in mind and stay healthy, especially this holiday weekend.

I'm meteorologist Bonnie Schneider with a look at your cold and flu report.


HARRIS: And we have just learned from the police chief of Yakima, Washington, that two of the four men who escaped from the Yakima County Jail have been recaptured about four miles away from the jail.

Two other escapees are still on the run, still at large this hour. One of the recaptured prisoners is a 20-year-old charged with second degree murder, but once again, just learning from the Yakima police chief that two of the four escapees have been recaptured. There are more signs of rebirth in New Orleans, nearly three months after Hurricane Katrina. The Audubon Zoo reopened days ago, and little by little more stores are opening their doors. But, people returning to the region are finding it's slow-going in many places. CNN's Ed Lavandera has more.


ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): New Orleans has always moved at its own rhythm, but almost everywhere you go these days is a slow dance.

JOAN REID, NEW ORLEANS RESIDENT: Oh, you wouldn't believe. Everywhere you go, there are lines.

LAVANDERA: It took Joan Reid nearly 30 minutes to pick up her mail. Cars waiting to get into fast food restaurants spill out of the parking lots.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, I'm not liking them at all. They're killing me. Just, you know, having to wait like this. I mean, and it's for fast food, to boot too, so I'd rather be -- you know, like a little bit healthier venue open. But you have to settle for fast food in these times.

REID: You're waiting in line, 30, 40 minutes. Any and everywhere -- oh, and the supermarket.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Totally different since the storm. Totally different.

LAVANDERA: Only about half of the Dorignac's grocery store employees are back at work. But business is booming again. For 36 years, Fred Little has managed this Metairie institution. He's noticed a change in the checkout lanes.

(on camera): Are these regular customers? Are these new customers?

FRED LITTLE, DORIGNAC'S SUPER MARKET: These people are coming from all over, now. And I think it's due to -- it's due to we're well-stocked and the word got out.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Clay (ph), you got raviolis? OK, Dana (ph), did you get the doughnuts?

LAVANDERA (voice-over): Negotiating the grocery store aisles is exhausting, not like it was before Katrina.

CASSANDRA HYER, NEW ORLEANS RESIDENT: I'm a very last-minute, unorganized person. And this is a quite an adjustment or lesson in life for me to have to plan ahead and get to the grocery.

LAVANDERA: As family and friends bump into each other and crowd into the small number of businesses that have reopened, some say this slow dance is just right. LAUREN NASTACIE, NEW ORLEANS RESIDENT: Glad to be home now. Doesn't matter. It's worth it. No place like home.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh look, a short line. Hot dog. I love it.

LAVANDERA: Ed Lavandera, CNN, New Orleans.


HARRIS: Nearly three months after Hurricane Katrina hit, New Orleans zoo is back in business. It reopened to the public today and apparently absence does make the heart grow fonder because zoo keepers insist the animals have actually missed the visitors. Joining us from New Orleans is Ron Forman, the president and CEO of the city's Audubon Institute Zoo.

Ron, good to see you. You've got some company behind you.

RON FORMAN, PRES. & CEO, AUDUBON INSTITUTE ZOO: It's a great day for New Orleans. The city's been without children for a long time, and today's Mardi Gras. Oh shoot, Mardi Gras -- I wish it was Mardi Gras. Halloween -- let's try Thanksgiving. Thanksgiving we want to bring our families back, show them that there's a place for families to come. And about 30,000 people have showed up so far.

HARRIS: Hey, Ron, let's get some of the unpleasantness out of the way here. Did you lose any of your animals because of the storm, because of Katrina?

FORMAN: We actually had a hurricane team that stayed here. They slept in the zoo, slept in a reptile house, with king cobras and venomous reptiles all around them. That's the most secure building in the zoo; it's a concrete block building.

They stayed here. As the trees fell -- we lost over 1,000 trees -- the animals were actually OK. We have an aquarium downtown, the Audubon Aquarium of the Americas, that ended up losing 10,000 of our fish. And that will not open until summertime of next year.

HARRIS: You mentioned some of the trees. What about structures? Were structured left pretty much intact? Or did you lose some of those?

FORMAN: No, we lost a lot of rooftops. The main thing we lost, though, was our population. About 200,000 homes are gone in our city. Schools have not opened yet. It's a devastating time for a lot of people.

But without kids in our city, without families in our city, we don't have a heart and soul. So, it's critical to do things with our animals to get the zoo open, using volunteers to open it to get the families back.

HARRIS: So how good does this day feel to you? FORMAN: It feels great. This place has been empty for three months. It's been devastating for a lot of us. We still have a lot of our staff living on the grounds because they lost their homes. And so it's an important time and you see people almost being normal again. That's important for our kids.

HARRIS: Wow. Everything back up and running? Are you running on a regular schedule? A limited schedule?

FORMAN: Well, we started with 800 employees here. We had to lay off over 650. So we're using mainly volunteers. We have about 500 volunteers working here today. And we keep getting the phone ringing saying what can we do to help. New Orleans has 300-year history. We will come back, but it's been devastated.

HARRIS: OK, I have to ask you this question. What is the future of your zoo as you see it, economically? Do you -- are your patrons going to be there? Are you going to be able to raise the money that you need to operate? Is the city going to be able to afford to give you the assistance that cities often give zoos?

FORMAN: No, actually, we are self-sufficient in our zoo. With user fees, front gate revenue, food, operations -- so we're losing about $1 million a week in our operation.

I had to tell the rest of the country, though, while we were underwater, literally here, every zoo, every aquarium in the U.S. started raising money for us. And it's the money they raised that kept us going because we do not have money coming in. It was the support of every zoo, every city in our country.

HARRIS: Ron Forman, president and CEO of the city's Audubon Institute Zoo in New Orleans. That's a great picture behind you. Enjoy this day.

FORMAN: I'll tell you what. The animals love it, and we're loving it, too. Thank you for being here.

HARRIS: Ron, good to see you. Take care.

And new details have emerged this week in the murder case against David Ludwig. Will they change how the prosecutor proceeds against the 18-year-old Pennsylvania man?

And Jose Padilla was accused of planning a terrorist attack inside the United States, so why wasn't he charged in connection with that allegation? It's all on the docket for our legal eagles when CNN LIVE SATURDAY RETURNS.



UNIDENTIFIED CORRESPONDENT: Jalsa Urubshurow founded not only one successful business, but two. Award-winning All-tech specializes in residential and commercial wood frame construction and is one of the leading framing contractors in the U.S.

Drawing from his Mongolian heritage, Urubshurow created Nomadic Expeditions, offering authentic adventure tours to remote regions of Asia. The company had more than 1,000 travelers last year and was selected as the best tourism brand by the Mongolian Chamber of Commerce.

JALSA URUBSHUROW, FOUNDER NOMADIC EXPEDITIONS: The great people I have in both organizations and being able to share a vision with them and have a passion puts the key in the foundation behind the success of both businesses. People say you make your own luck in business, but you certainly have to work hard. You can't just assume to be lucky and not expect to put in the effort.



HARRIS: In today's "Legal Briefs," alleged enemy combatant, Jose Padilla will finally get his day in court. Padilla is charged with conspiracy to kill kidnap and injure American's overseas and provide material support to terrorists.

An American citizen and convert to Islam, Padilla spent three years in a Navy brig without charges. His alleged plots and ties to al Qaeda are not part of the indictment.

And in Pennsylvania, police say 18-year-old David Ludwig told them how he shot and killed his girlfriend's parents after they objected to his relationship with their 14-year-old daughter.

Police say it appears that Kara Borden left willingly with Ludwig. And the two fled to Indiana, where they were later caught. Ludwig faces two charges of homicide. Kara Borden is not being charged.

With us to dissect the cases are our legal eagles Avery Friedman and Richard Herman. Gentleman, good to see you both.

Richard, Avery, let's start with the Ludwig case. The more you read in the statement, the more this hat sounds like murder in the first degree, doesn't it?

AVERY FRIEDMAN, LAW PROFESSOR: This is an anti-authoritarian kind of survivalist, apocalyptic sort of fellow: 18-year-old David Ludwig. And he intended to do exactly what happened here.

He took the weapon. He comes out of a household where there are 54 guns. Created a video, about 18 minutes about this sort of behavior. And Dad, Mr. Borden didn't like what he was doing with his 14-year-old. He pulled a gun, shot him. And then went in the living room, Tony, and took out Mom.

HARRIS: And Richard Ludwig says he didn't aim. However, he usually doesn't miss. Murder or manslaughter? And the difference in these charges means what? It seems ultimately at sentencing time? RICHARD HERMAN, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Ultimately, murder is life or death in prison. And manslaughter could be potential to get out. This is a horrific crime.

Like so many cases, Avery and I discuss with you and Fred. Right now from a defense perspective, they must immediately seek mental health evaluations for this guy.

And the mere fact -- after he took off, he turned around to come back to pick up Kara, I think will fuel a mental health defense for him. It's horrific. He didn't miss because he was six feet away. One bullet to the head to Kathy Borden. And they found her in the chair, with her blanket over her legs still. Horrific.

HARRIS: Richard, let me stay with you. Kara Borden, her jeopardy here. Have you seen anything to suggest that she helped in the planning of this crime?

HERMAN: We haven't seen it yet. But the police have subpoenaed and are at this point going over all the cell phone text messages and all the computer records from both of them.

And perhaps, perhaps she still may be charged as an accomplice in this case. She may not be. But that will hold any evidence of whether or not she's an accomplice.

HARRIS: And we don't know this, Avery, but if she were aware of a plan and did not report it, talk to us about her exposure here.

FRIEDMAN: None. That's not a crime in Pennsylvania. On top of the fact she's 14 years old. She would be charged as juvenile. I hate to do this, I agree -- one of the keys here is to get the information from the text messaging and the Internet company to find out whether or not David Ludwig and Kara Borden really hatched this plan.

I would predict that's probably not the case. David Ludwig is one of these guys that went from young girl to young girl. Kara was the latest. My hunch is that even once they get that evidence, there's not going to be anything. There's not going to be need for immunity.

The truth is this was a 14-year-old who had no idea what was coming here.

HARRIS: Richard, let's change gears and talk about Jose Padilla, the former enemy combatant who was indicted this week. But he was not indicted with being a dirty bomber. Why not?

HERMAN: Tony, here, the administration blinked. They brought substantially different charges from what they originally incarcerated him for as an enemy combatant.

The reason they didn't pursue those charges is because all of the evidence for that case was obtained in the two years of which Padilla was incarcerated without the assistance of any attorneys, without the right to speak to an attorney. And in addition, based on triple and double hearsay.

They didn't have a case. And then, you want to give up the potential information and sources to prosecute him on that one. So, they brought the backup charges against him.

HARRIS: So, Avery, do you want to cross-examine Khalid-Sheik Mohammed if you're on the defense team.

FRIEDMAN: I'm losing you, Tony.

HARRIS: You still have me?

FRIEDMAN: I think the question is whether or not there was evidence. Indeed, my judgment is that there was. The difficulty here was that all the admissions made by Padilla in the South Carolina brig is inadmissible because they were made in the absence of legal counsel.

HARRIS: Let me stop you there and get to the question. Would you like, Avery, to cross-examine Khalid-Sheik Mohammed, as one of the people that provided information that led to charges of Padilla being the dirty bomber?

FRIEDMAN: I would love to do it, number one. And, number two, it will never happen. Because the distinction, again, is you're dealing with national security issues, classified evidence. That's why the government -- when they went after Al Capone, they didn't go after all the heinous crimes, they went after tax evasion.

I think the government is doing exactly the right thing. They're going to get convictions on Padilla. And the rest of the information, in terms of intelligence, and security, remains sacrosanct.

HERMAN: The real issue is how long can the president keep an enemy combatant incarcerated without filing charges against them? That's the real issue. And the government did not want to file their briefs next week, which are due. And that's why they did this.

FRIEDMAN: He's no longer an enemy combatant. He is a criminal defendant, as a citizen of the United States. The Supreme Court has a chance to consider this. The brief is due Monday. And you know what? They're not going to take the case because it's moot.

HARRIS: Wow. You think they -- the issues are still outstanding it seems to me.

FRIEDMAN: That's the whole point. It's not. The government blinked. I'm telling you. They didn't want to file the brief. They didn't want the Supreme Court to decide this. On the heels of the Hamdi decision. The court upheld that state does not give the president a blank check. And they didn't want to get spanked on this one.

HERMAN: They knew what they were doing. They did the right thing. They didn't blink. It was a smart move from the United States attorney's perspective. HARRIS: Good stuff. Avery Friedman, Richard Herman. Great to see you both. Have a good weekend.

Still ahead -- the crisis in Sudan. It may appear to be getting better. But there's more that needs to be done before this country's problems are solved. We'll explain coming up at 4:00.

And, they lost their son. But gave six other people the gift of life. We'll show you how ahead on CNN LIVE SATURDAY.


HARRIS: This Thanksgiving weekend, six people across the country are celebrating a new lease on life because of another family's decision. CNN's Elizabeth Cohen tells us how that one act is also helping hearts to heal.



ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Annettor Murphy traveled 400 miles to thank the parents of the man who saved her life. She will never be able to thank their son.

Craig McBride, a police officer, died in August. Just two years on the force, he'd been voted rookie of the year at his precinct in Washington, D.C. His parents had never seen him happier. He would have been married soon. Now, Annettor Murphy has his liver.

(on camera): There's several others out there like you...


COHEN: ... who have a part of Craig inside them.

MURPHY: Yes, yes, but I think I got the best part. And I'm so happy.

COHEN (voice-over): On August 9, Ken and Jeanne McBride were at home in Massachusetts when their phone rang. Their son was being taken to Washington Hospital Center.

JEANNE MCBRIDE, CRAIG'S MOTHER: And what I asked the doctor was, is this the kind of situation where we needed to be there yesterday? And he said yes. That's all he needed to say.

COHEN: The next day, with his parents and dozens of police officers by his side, Craig died.

A few weeks ago, Annettor and her family flew from Baltimore to Boston.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm good. How about you?

COHEN: She wanted to learn more about the man who gave her a new lease on life. The McBride's shared family photos and stories.

MCBRIDE: Just pictures growing up. He was an entrepreneur very early.

COHEN: And together they celebrated Annettor's 62 birthday.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Happy birthday to you.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Happy birthday to you.

COHEN: A birthday her doctors never thought she'd reach.

KIM TAYLOR, ANNETTOR'S NIECE: Craig was a hero. He's allowed life to continue in someone else, and that's my aunt. He's just an awesome guy.

COHEN (on camera): How was it to meet the parents of the man who gave you your liver?

MURPHY: I love them. I love them. They're angels. And he was an angel to give me his liver.

COHEN (voice-over): The McBrides gave Annettor this quilt.

MCBRIDE: The organ transplant symbol, butterflies. So I put butterfly fabric in each corner.

COHEN: To symbolize that forever...

MCBRIDE: Our hearts to your heart.

COHEN: Because of Craig, they're family.

Elizabeth Cohen, CNN, Framingham, Massachusetts.


HARRIS: What a story.

From Kobe Bryant to Martha Stewart no one is immune from the occasional embarrassing sound byte. Up next, CNN 25 takes a look back at some of the more memorable statements from the past quarter- century.

Coming up at 4:00, is the world standing by as a genocide is being committed? We'll explore the crisis in Darfur and try to find out why more isn't being done to stop it.

And is trouble brewing in this country for holiday travelers planning to head home tomorrow? Count on CNN for up-to-the-minute weather updates. The news continues here on CNN.