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CNN Live Saturday

Bush Admits Giving NSA Authorization To Spy On American Citizens; Pentagon Discovered Problems In Classified Database On Domestic Intelligence Threats; WTO Protests Turn Ugly; Rape Suspect Stabs Self In Neck; Some Experts Worry About New Orleans Air Pollution; Experts Weigh In on Possible Civil Liberty Violations; Inside Iraqi Family Life

Aired December 17, 2005 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

GERRI WILLIS, CNN ANCHOR: In the Middle East, a Palestinian militant was killed earlier today in an apparent Israeli air strike. Palestinian security sources tell CNN the attack in Gaza was carried out by a drone aircraft. Now, the man was in a car that was struck. So far, there is no comment from Israel.
And in New York City, efforts to avert a crippling transit strike continue. Negotiators have returned to the bargaining table. Officials with the transit union say if an agreement is not reached, the first phase of a strike is scheduled to begin after midnight Monday.

And on this weekend before Christmas, Vice President Dick Cheney is starting a five-day trip abroad. He is visiting American allies in the war on terrorism. Stops include Afghanistan, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, and Egypt.

And award winning journalist Jack Anderson has died at the age of 83. Anderson died at his home in Maryland from complications of Parkinson's disease. His syndicated column "Washington Merry-Go- Round" focused on political corruption in the nation's capital. Anderson won a Pulitzer Prize in 1972.

We begin with a new development in the war on terror. President Bush is now acknowledging he, personally a proved a secret eaves dropping program in the United States. And he's defending his decision, saying it's critical to national security. CNN's Kathleen Koch is with us now from the White House. Kathleen?

KATHLEEN KOCH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Gerri, it was a stunning admission this morning from the White House, from the president himself, who just yesterday had insisted he wouldn't talk about ongoing intelligence operations, but this morning, in a live radio address, Mr. Bush came out and admitted flat out that he had authorized the National Security Agency to spy on American's international phone calls, on their emails. Mr. Bush, though, did insist those were targeted, had known links to al Qaeda, and other terrorists organizations.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, U.S. PRESIDENT: This authorization is a vital tool in our war against the terrorists. It is critical to saving American lives. The American people expect me to do everything in my power, under our laws and constitution, to protect them, and their civil liberties, and that is exactly what I will continue to do, so long as I'm the president of the United States.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KOCH: President Bush said that top NSA and Justice Department legal authorities regularly reviewed the program's activities, and he insisted that it had, indeed, helped to prevent and to detect potential terrorist attacks both in the United States and overseas. Lawmakers who are here in Washington on Capitol Hill right now trying to wrap up their business before the break, though, were un-persuaded saying that this is a clear blow to American civil liberties.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. DENNIS KUCINICH, (D) OH: It's going to cause all Americans to review what are our freedoms here what, levels of freedom do we have? Do people have a reasonable expectation that when they make a phone call or make a transaction or read a library book or go to a meeting that they're not going to be spied on by their government? So I take strong exception to what happened.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KOCH: As a result of the president's admission this morning, calls are increasing for either an investigation or a series of congressional hearings into the legality of the eavesdropping program. Gerri?

WILLIS: So Kathleen, why the president's about face on this issue?

KOCH: That's a wonderful question, Gerri. We have yet to get a direct response on that from the White House, but it is in keeping with a trend that we're seeing now, one of the new strategies from the White House, a new forthrightness when it comes to its dealings with the public at large in these series and speeches on Iraq, saying the last couple of weeks, the president has, for the first time, admitted that mistakes were made, that things didn't always go as planned, that the strategy had to be changed as the U.S. moved forward. So again, this may be in keeping with that. Again, a more direct approach and hoping that that will work.

WILLIS: Kathleen Koch, thank you for that report.

KOCH: You bet.

WILLIS: So, what about the question of civil liberties? Our legal experts Avery Friedman and Richard Herman will weigh in on this spying controversy coming up at the half-hour.

Now, to an exclusive list you don't want to be on. It's compiled by the Pentagon, and focuses on threats to the United States. But some people are showing up on that list that shouldn't. CNN Pentagon correspondent Barbara Starr has the details.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BARBARA STARR, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The Pentagon has discovered problems in a classified database on domestic intelligence threats. Officials confirm the entire database is under review, that they have learned it inadvertently but improperly included information on people or groups in the U.S. that are not a threat to the U.S. military.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: One, two, three, four ...

STARR: For more than two years the military has maintained a little-noticed database that at times can include information about anti-war groups or others opposed to U.S. military policy. Is it illegal domestic spying? The Pentagon says absolutely not. In a statement, a spokesman says, "The Department of Defense uses counterintelligence and law enforcement information properly collected by law enforcement agencies. The use of this information is subject to strict limitations."

The information must show a threat to either national security, protection of U.S. military personnel or protection of military bases. Apparently, some of the reports in the database proved to show no threat. They should have been deleted, but they were not, military officials say.

Reports of suspicious activity can come, for example, from people who believe anti-war protests are threatening or from local law enforcement, but it's only valid for the Pentagon to keep the information if it can be proven to be a threat to the military.

(on camera): The Pentagon is now informing the House and Senate intelligence committees about the problem, and the steps it's taking to make sure that the military is not improperly collecting intelligence on U.S. citizens. Barbara Starr, CNN, the Pentagon.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WILLIS: Well, members of Congress are usually gone for the holidays about this time of the year, but that's not the case. Right now, the House convenes this hour. You're looking at live pictures. Lawmakers have a lot of unfinished business.

Congress must complete work on a $453 billion defense budget. There is an effort to attach a provision that could allow oil drilling in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge and the Senate is set to reconvene later this afternoon. Republicans are searching for ways to keep several provisions of the Patriot Act alive.

And protests at the world trade talks in Hong Kong have turned ugly there. Hundreds of demonstrators break through police lines in the worst violence that city has seen in decades. They came close to storming the meeting before police scattered them with tear gases and water hoses. Dozens, including police, were injured. CNN's Mike Chinoy joins us now by telephone with the latest. Mike? MIKE CHINOY, CNN CORRESPONDENT (on phone): Hi, Gerri. The tension here is beginning to pick up again. Several hundred South Korean farmers who have been camped out in the middle of one of the main thoroughfares in Hong Kong have gathered their forces as the police slowly move towards them. They haven't actually closed in yet, but it's clear the police are preparing for some kind of operation to bring this protest to an end.

These South Koreans have occupied this main road for many hours. It's really paralyzed what is normally one of the busiest areas of Hong Kong on the weekend before Christmas. Earlier, the protesters fought running battles with the police as the demonstrators tried to break through barricades and get inside the Hong Kong Convention Center, where the World Trade Organization meeting is under way.

The police had to use tear gas, as well as hoses and pepper spray, to try and drive the protesters back. The South Koreans say that their voice is not being heard, and that they are now determined to have their voice heard. However -- in whatever way they can.

It's now 3:00 in the morning and the police have long ago, several hours ago warned people in this area to get off the streets, and it's clear that some kind of crackdown is going to take place before too long. The protesters have plans for another big demonstration and march on Sunday, and it's clear they don't want these Koreans to be around them, and it looks like now the arrests have just begun.

Police officers beginning to move in now, and setting up a cordon. The South Koreans - leaders of the South Koreans are saying they're prepared to go to tell everybody to sit down, they're prepared to be arrested. They said with dignity, but without violence.

So Hong Kong police finally their patience at an end, beginning to move in. Police officers linking hands, making a cordon as the police come in and one by one try and drag these protesters away. So far the Koreans have been true to their word and there hasn't been any fighting back at least so far -- Gerri.

WILLIS: Mike, those are dramatic pictures. Tell us what the farmers are demanding.

CHINOY: The farmers are upset. They see the World Trade Organization as the vehicle to force open the Korean market to imports of foreign rice. They say that would destroy their livelihood, and not just in the business sense but it would destroy a very traditional way of life. For these farmers, rice is part of their soul, it's part of their traditional culture, and so they don't like the idea of freer trade, and imports of foreign goods that would threaten that.

In South Korea, they have a long track record of violent clashes with the police, and they were true to that tradition earlier in the day. But now in the middle of the night they've signaled that they won't fight back, but they are going to resist passively and make the police haul them away, one at a time, but the police really determined to bring this to an end. This road that they've been blocking is really one of the busiest roads, leading from the eastern to the western side of Hong Kong, and it's paralyzed what has been one of the busiest commercial neighborhoods here. So what we're seeing are police coming in and one by one, trying to drag these protesters away. The protesters resisting passively.

So far, though, we haven't seen any of the pepper spray or tear gas or fighting or the protesters wielding wooden sticks as they were early on. The police plan had been to take people when they arrest them to an area on the other side of Hong Kong Harbor, well away from this scene, and it's reasonable to assume they'll want to keep the South Koreans out of action on Sunday, so they can't come back and join any additional protesters there. Gerri?

WILLIS: Mike Chinoy, thank you for that report. And stay safe there.

A suspected fugitive caught. How authorities captured a man who is accused of assaulting a New York woman for 12 hours on Halloween.

Plus the air in New Orleans and the aftermath of Katrina, why residents are not breathing easy in the Big Easy.

And the future of Iraq. Through one boy's eyes this hour on CNN LIVE SATURDAY.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WILLIS: The disturbing story of an alleged sexual assault now moves into a new phase, the capture of a suspect. It began in Manhattan on Halloween. A month and a half later Peter Braunstein is apprehended in Memphis, Tennessee. Now, he's recovering in the hospital from self-inflicted knife wounds. CNN's Heidi Collins has the story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We called our officers in, gave them pictures of the individual, it was on the Internet and one of the officers was on patrol looking for the guy, actually, and encountered him here.

HEIDI COLLINS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Instead of surrendering, Braunstein took out a knife and stabbed himself in the neck. His capture was as bizarre as the crimes he's suspected of committing, and the life this once successful book editor and fashion writer had come to lead. Police say Braunstein bought a firefighter's uniform on the Internet. They say he wore it Halloween night when he set two small fires as a way to break into a former colleague's apartment.

He allegedly drugged her with chloroform, tied her up with tape and assaulted her for 13 hours. His father said he was shocked to learn the man accused of this horrible crime was his own son.

ALBERTO BRAUNSTEIN, PETER BRAUNSTEIN'S FATHER: It was just devastating, devastating because reading about it, my first thought was, anyone who could commit such a thing must be emotionally disturbed.

COLLINS: Braunstein vanished and so began a month and a half long game cat and mouse with the NYPD. He was featured on "America's Most Wanted" tracked to a midtown New York City hotel, spotted in Times Square and may have used his metro card in a Greenwich Village subway station. Some who know Peter Braunstein say his issues with women began long before his alleged crime.

NAT FINKELSTEIN, FASHION PHOTOGRAPHER: He's abusive. He's nasty. There's at least six women that I do know of, including my own wife that he's threatened.

COLLINS: A look at his employment record shows Braunstein was a scribe with a dark side. His words featured on an explicit Web site called "Gettingiton," writing articles like "Commitment to Raunch" and "Wicked Women to Watch."

He was charged with stalking a former girlfriend and sentenced to probation and used another Web site to label her a biohazard. Though he estranged from his son for two years, Braunstein's father begged his son to stop running from the law.

BRAUNSTEIN: I'm pleading with him to turn himself in before something drastic or tragic happens.

COLLINS: But his son didn't listen, and when confronted by cops in Memphis, he simply said, I'm the person you're looking for, before attempting to take his own life. Heidi Collins, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WILLIS: A new worry for residents of New Orleans. Is the air safe to breathe? We'll examine it when CNN LIVE SATURDAY returns.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WILLIS: It's not just the levees that worry some New Orleans evacuees and health experts. As Daniel Sieberg reports, some scientists have concerns about air quality in the city, with the cleanup and rebuilding efforts in high gear.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DANIEL SIEBERG, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It will be a long time before many New Orleaneans breathe a sigh of relief and maybe even longer before they breathe fresh air. We took to the air to talk about what's in it, with the local professor who studied the topic for years.

BARRY DELLINGER, LSU: The waste is supposed to be segregated into appliances, construction debris and trees, things like that, but as you can tell from the air, what sort of segregation is going on, I don't actually see much difference in the pile.

SIEBERG: At one major site in devastated Plaquemines Parish where Katrina came ashore, workers are beginning the long process of grinding up debris, millions of cubic yards of it, before putting it into a landfill.

Here the annihilator machine we're looking at right here. What could possibly be coming out of this device in terms of what's going into the air?

DELLINGER: Well, I think the main concern is fine, particular matter in the grinding operation that would be release so it can contain fungus, pathogens, as well as toxic chemicals released from household waste during the hurricane, possibly even chemical plant waste as well.

SIEBERG: FEMA and the Army Corps of Engineers denied us access to the grinder, citing safety concerns. The Environmental Protection Agency is monitoring the air quality here. After Katrina the EPA began conducting daily tests at 18 locations around New Orleans.

DWAYNE ALLEN, EPA CONTRACTOR: When I first got here t seemed like no matter where you went to it smelled like a city dump and now the air is quite clear and crisp and not bad.

SIEBERG: Some independent reports say certain neighborhoods contain traces of arsenic, benzene, mercury, lead and hydrocarbons but the EPA says overall the air in New Orleans is safe.

STEVE CALANOG, EPA: We're finding the air conditions are similar to those we saw prior to Katrina coming through, and we're very encouraged by those air sampling results.

SIEBERG: But Dellinger says the EPA may not be testing for new types of toxins released after floodwaters receded. He says "we need more information."

DELLINGER: We need a study. I guess the danger there is you go ahead and repopulate and then do the study and say it's not safe. They've moved back in. You're not going to get anyone out. On the other hand, you got all of these people with no place to live so they have to live somewhere. All I can say is I'm glad I don't have to make that decision or come up with that plan.

SIEBERG: That decision is on Mayor Ray Nagin's shoulders.

MAYOR RAY NAGIN, NEW ORLEANS: They don't feel as though there's any long-term risk but if you have a respiratory challenge, I would advise you to wait a little longer. We are starting to see other so- called experts come in and dispute the findings that the EPA has, so we need to make sure that all of the dust settles and we know exactly what we're dealing with.

SIEBERG (on camera): One area of serious concern in the Lower Ninth Ward where people are allowed to go back into their homes to try to recover whatever they can but the dust and the sediment is still everywhere and that has some health officials worried about what the long-term effects could be.

JOHANNA CONGLETON, PHYSICIANS FOR SOCIAL RESPONSIBILITY: These are N-95 respirators. You want to wear one a day and throw it out. SIEBERG (voice-over): Johanna Congleton spends her time trying to keep workers and residents in places like the Lower Ninth Ward safe. She says federal, state and local agencies are not doing enough to provide proper protective gear or clean up the mess.

CONGLETON: People have the right come back to safe and healthy neighborhoods and this should have been taken care of a long time ago especially before they opened neighborhoods back up to people to return.

SIEBERG: From the air, the stark reality on the ground is even more apparent. Dellinger says long-term air quality analysis is needed to knowing what the lasting impact will be. But he knows he can't stop people from coming home.

So, on the one hand, it's not practical, because these people are trying get back to their homes or trying to put the city back to what it was. On the other hand, it could be unhealthy for them.

DELLINGER: That's right, and the best we can, I think, hope for here is we learn from this one source that we know what to do for the next one. That's the best we can hope for.

SIEBERG: Daniel Sieberg, CNN, New Orleans.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WILLIS: President Bush says he's the one who gave the NSA the authority to eavesdrop. Do his actions infringe on civil liberties? We're going to ask our legal team when CNN LIVE SATURDAY returns.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WILLIS: We're going to take you now to Hong Kong, with Mike Chinoy, who is covering the story of the South Korean farmer protesting the World Trade Organization talks. They have protesting there for hours. Mike, tell us the details.

CHINOY: Hi, Gerri.

Well, in the last half hour, the police have finally decided enough is enough and they are moving to end this protest, but unlike the events of the past few hours that saw violent clashes between demonstrators and police, this process is taking place peacefully, the police moving into the crowd and taking the protesters one by one, taking them away.

A leader of the South Korean protesters told the crowd earlier in the evening that if the police moved in, that the protesters would be arrested with dignity. The point he made is that it was important for the South Koreans to have their voice heard, and they would not violently resist any police attempts to take them away.

So this is bringing to an end a protest that, at its peak, saw the police force to use tear gas and water hoses and pepper spray to prevent a crowd which, at its peak was maybe 1,000 or 1,200 people trying to break through barricades and get inside the convention center, where the WTO meeting was underway.

When these protesters were repulsed, they parked themselves here on what is normally one of Hong Kong's busiest highways. They shut the highway down, and much of the surrounding neighborhood life has also come to a standstill. They've been surrounded by the police. Now in the middle of the night here in Hong Kong and the police decided enough is enough -- Gerri.

WILLIS: Mike, it's more than just an economic story here with these farmers, rice, rice prices, rice imports -- it's a real hot button topic, correct?

CHINOY: That's right. It's not just an issue of economics. For these farmers, rice means something a lot more, and what the South Koreans are upset about is the possibility the WTO will accelerate a trend towards imports of foreign rice into South Korea.

These are rural folk who see growing rice as almost a kind of sacred duty, that it's connected to the survival of South Korea's traditional culture and their traditional way of life. They feel all of that is threatened by globalization, represented by the WTO, specifically the danger of imports of foreign rice.

In South Korea, they've been waging a campaign for a long time. It's all been demarked (ph) by violent clashes with the police. They have been at the forefront of the protests here all week, although until today, those protests have been relatively orderly -- Gerri.

WILLIS: Mike Chinoy, thank you so much for that report.

President Bush says he authorized the National Security Agency to intercept international communications of people in this country with suspected links to terrorists. Now in a White House speech today Mr. Bush acknowledged he has approved the use of secret eavesdropping more than 30 times since the September 11th terror attacks. And he lashed out the media.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BUSH: This is a highly classified program that is crucial to our national security. Its purpose is to detect and prevent terrorist attacks against the United States, our friends and allies.

Yesterday, the existence of this secret program was revealed in media reports after being improperly provided to news organizations. As a result, our enemies have learned information they should not have, and the unauthorized disclosure of this effort damages our national security and puts our citizens at risk.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WILLIS: Mr. Bush says the American people expect him to do everything in his power to protect them, and their civil liberties. Some members of Congress, including several Republicans, are condemning secret wiretaps on Americans without required court approval. Now Republican Arlen Specter is vowing to hold hearings on the matter. We're going to take a closer look at the legal implications of the White House authoring National Security Agency eavesdropping on Americans.

We're joined right now by civil rights attorney and law professor Avery Friedman in Cleveland, and New York criminal defense attorney Richard Herman. Welcome to both of my guests.

RICHARD HERMAN, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Good afternoon.

AVERY FRIEDMAN, CIVIL RIGHTS ATTORNEY: Hi, Gerri.

WILLIS: Let's start, Avery Friedman, with you. You say the question of whether this is legal or not legal -- and keep in mind here, the Defense Department says that the Pentagon says yes, indeed, this is legal. You say it turns on the idea of whether we're actually at war or not. Explain.

FRIEDMAN: Yes, a very complicated constitutional issue reduced to simplest form. If there's declaration of war, the president has very broad powers as commander in chief. But all the Congress did, Gerri, in this case, after September 11th was issue a resolution giving the president the power of use of force.

All that means is the president, indeed, can do domestic surveillance, but he has to use a process under a 1978 federal law. If he didn't do it, he probably violated the Fourth Amendment to the Constitution of the United States, and that's really what Senator Specter wants to look into.

WILLIS: Richard Herman, weigh in here. Does this have to be accomplished when we're at war? Does it matter? What's the key issue here?

HERMAN: Well, I think it would have been a lot neater if there was a formal declaration of war but he is the president of the United States. He's charged with protecting the citizens of the United States. He set up this plan. It's been working. He discussed it with at least 12 occasions with members of Congress. Every 45 days there's a review on it.

It's not for conversations between Americans with Americans in America. It's with individuals who have demonstrated a clear link to terrorism, having conversations via computer, e-mail, or telephone overseas, with people overseas.

And frankly, I have to tell you, Gerri, I live in New York City. I saw those buildings come down. I sleep a lot better at night knowing that my government is protecting me.

WILLIS: Those are emotional issues. Those are emotional issues; those are not legal issues or ...

HERMAN: That's fact. FRIEDMAN: ... constitutional issues. The bottom line, in 1978, the Congress set up a process and that process is that if the president wants to do domestic surveillance, which is what this is about, he can get a warrant and it is an expedited, quick process.

It's been done 1,700 times and the president in this case, ignored the law, in my judgment, if we believe the "New York Times," and did it his own way. And I appreciate the emotions if you're living in New York, and the fact is that the same thing could have been accomplished by a warrant granted in these cases.

WILLIS: Richard -- jump in here, Richard.

HERMAN: Yes, you know, again, the protections that the citizens of the United States have been experiencing for the past 25 years, knowing that their conversations are not subject to surveillance, unless there's a court order, theoretically that's how it's been the last 25 years.

Frankly, I don't think it has been that way, but here, this is an act of terrorism. The president, he was criticized by the 9/11 reports for not engaging in surveillance of these conversations. He brought it up to Congress. They knew about it.

They knew about what he was doing with this committee that he set up. They knew it. He had judges who knew it. He has 45-day review period. There's protections. There are safeguards and it's not -- it's not -- conversations between Americans with Americans in America.

WILLIS: Avery?

HERMAN: And I find it interesting that the "New York Times" had this a year ago ...

FRIEDMAN: It doesn't -- you know what? That's not the point. The point is that if you live in this country, if you are an average citizen or a terrorist, the president, the executive branch, has a process, Richard, and you can't ignore it. And that's what's happened if you are to believe the "New York Times." He did it 30 times. He's not doing it anymore but he did it before. He said ...

WILLIS: Well, Avery, let me interrupt you here for just a second. Richard makes an interesting point. You know, the president's been criticized, the federal government has been criticized for not picking up on the communications that went on between terrorists before 9/11. Now they do, they prevent a couple of attacks, and they're still being criticized.

FRIEDMAN: Well, but the criticism isn't with the question of domestic surveillance. Gerri, that is critical. That has to be done. The reason Senator Specter said what the president did was wrong was simply because he ignored a law passed by the Congress in 1978. He could have done the same thing with a warrant which had been granted and he ignored the process.

HERMAN: Hey, Avery, do you ... FRIEDMAN: There's no way you can get around that.

HERMAN: Do you think we're safer now that they know that we're monitoring all of these conversations? Do you feel a little safer now?

FRIEDMAN: Look, the fact is ...

WILLIS: Well, Richard, let me ask you a serious question here. Richard ...

FRIEDMAN: ... there is a process here. If we ignore the process, we ignore the constitution, Richard.

WILLIS: Richard, let me ask you this question. If it's that easy to get one of these emergency orders, why not just do it?

FRIEDMAN: Right.

HERMAN: Well, it's just not that easy and the president is charged with protecting the citizens of the United States in the best way he feels possible, under the laws of the Constitution ...

FRIEDMAN: No, under the law, Richard. He has to protect the citizens under the clear.

(CROSSTALK)

HERMAN: And it's not clear-cut, Avery, that this is any violation of the Constitution. That will be discussed, that will be debated in the weeks to come. I think it is constitutional under these circumstances.

WILLIS: Well, what happens next? What should happen next, Avery?

FRIEDMAN: Well, in my judgment, the president has to abandon warrantless, domestic surveillance. If he continues to do it, sooner or later this case is going to find itself in two places: first in a federal courtroom, where a federal judge is going to enjoin the administration from doing it lawlessly; and secondly, before a Senate judiciary hearing where we can find out exactly how the president has been doing this. You can't do it outside the law. Very simple.

WILLIS: I got to ask you a question here, Richard. Is some of the concern and the worry and the emotional reaction of this due to the fact that it's the NSA, National Security Administration, highly secretive organization, Americans often feel like they don't know what they do -- does some of the concern have to do with that very fact?

HERMAN: Absolutely, Gerri. But, you know, in these times, we can't sit and have tea and scones with the terrorists. I mean we have to act. We have to be aggressive, and we have to protect the citizens of the United States, and that's what this president's doing.

FRIEDMAN: Within the law. HERMAN: Within the law.

FRIEDMAN: Within the law.

HERMAN: I agree 100 percent, and there's avenues for abuse and that's what we have to protect and preclude any abuse of this. But I think you're going to see in the end, this is going to held up.

FRIEDMAN: I don't agree.

WILLIS: Well, you know, one other issue I wanted to get to you guys on this very topic, obviously these days, monitoring these terrorists, monitoring people is so much easier, because of the level of communication. Cell phones, all of this stuff is in the air.

FRIEDMAN: Right.

WILLIS: At what point do you say that picking up this material is illegal, it's not illegal? It seems like it's a fuzzy area -- Avery.

FRIEDMAN: I'm not satisfied, Gerri, that it's a fuzzy area at all. The Congress set up special intelligence surveillance courts and there are standards. It's been used almost 2,000 times since it was set up. I don't even understand the argument that, well, the president protects us no matter what the law is.

He has a process to use. And if you don't use it, you violate the constitution. So to me, if there is suspicion, if there's evidence of Americans engaged in terrorist activities, go to an intelligence surveillance judge, use the expedited emergency process and you'll get your warrants.

WILLIS: OK. I want to give one more questions here to Richard, because before we came to this debate you told me, I realize that some of my civil liberties might be breached here and I don't care. That's OK by me. Is this a case where civil liberties are breached?

HERMAN: Well, I believe that, if you are engaging in Internet conversations and cell phone conversations with individuals outside of the United States, who have some articulable link to terrorism, you got a problem, and your civil liberties are not going to be protected and that's just how it is in this day and age.

FRIEDMAN: Holy smokes.

WILLIS: All right. All right.

FRIEDMAN: Holy smokes.

WILLIS: We're going to leave it for another time. It was a great debate. Avery Friedman, Richard Herman, thank you so much for being with us today.

HERMAN: Thank you, Gerri. I still love you, Avery.

FRIEDMAN: Nice to see you, Gerri, take care.

The future of Iraq through the eyes of a young teen. What he sees for himself, his family, and his future when CNN LIVE SATURDAY returns.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WILLIS: In Iraq, a leading Sunni politician who took part in Thursday's election is pledging to work towards unity. Adnan al- Dulaimi says he's willing to make alliances with other groups regardless of religion or ethnicity.

Al-Dulaimi's party is expected to win some seats in the parliamentary election. He says a strong power of sharing government is key to safeguarding the rights of Iraqis.

President Bush addresses the nation tomorrow night about Iraq. He'll congratulate the millions of Iraqis who is participated in this week's successful election.

They are Iraqis like the family you're about to meet. Our chief international correspondent, Christiane Amanpour, paid a visit to show us their life in Iraq between the bombs and the ballots.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This is Iraq through the eyes of a child. Driving his car through a virtual reality, 13-year-old Anmar Rashid avoids what's actually out there.

"When I wake up every day, maybe I play computer games or play football in the street outside my house. That's how I spend my time," he says.

Because Baghdad is so dangerous, fun and games, hanging out, a kid's life, happens mostly inside. Just going to the elections with his family was a rare day out.

"We went and voted and I put my finger in the ink," he laughs.

The day after the election is a holiday, and Anmar's mother, Raghad, has cooked a special lunch.

"For me as a mother, of course, it is very difficult," she tells us. "I always try to keep them inside the house. I always make sure the door is locked. And I don't let them talk to strangers."

The family moved here four months ago because there was just too much violence in their old neighborhood. Anmar's 17-year-old brother, Karrar, was chased twice and nearly kidnapped by bandits.

"I'm not only still scared," he says, "but every time I tell the story, I feel terrified."

He now passes his time either at high school or on the computer chatting with friends and relatives outside Iraq. So does their 18- year-old sister, Ula, grounded not just by the danger, but by tradition, too.

"For me, as a girl, I can't go outside alone," she says. "So, I spend my time in the house, helping my mother or chatting on the Internet."

(on camera): Do you have a boyfriend?

ULA RASHID, 18-YEAR-OLD IRAQI: No.

(LAUGHTER)

U. RASHID: In Iraq, no.

(LAUGHTER)

AMANPOUR (voice-over): On calm days, like this, with traffic banned and streets empty for the election period, children have a chance to be outside and feel safe. They can, at last, be children, playing soccer and riding bicycles.

But these days are rare, and the little ones tell us they're afraid of the explosions and the killing. Anmar, though, is feisty. Perhaps, it is his way of surviving this madness.

"When I go outside and play," he says, "it is like I defy the terrorists and I help get rid of them."

His parents can afford to take their children out of Iraq for holidays, and then they feel safer and saner. Their father, Ihsan, says he never expected things to be this bad in Iraq after Saddam.

IHSAN RASHID, FATHER: It's too much wars. Everything is dangerous here in Iraq. So, I hope and try and fighting to be their life is better life than my life.

AMANPOUR: He hopes the latest elections will be the beginning of a better life for his family and for his country.

Christiane Amanpour, CNN, Baghdad.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WILLIS: Iraq will be the topic tomorrow night when President Bush addresses the nation from the Oval Office. CNN's prime-time coverage begins at 7:00 Eastern with the "'TIME' Person Of The Year."

Then at 8:00 Eastern, join Wolf Blitzer in "THE SITUATION ROOM" for a preview of the president's speech.

And at 9:00 Eastern, watch the presidential address in a special edition of "LARRY KING LIVE." That's tomorrow night here on CNN.

Stories making the news across America this weekend. In California, authorities evacuated a Southwest Airlines jet on a runway in Burbank, after a passenger made a reference about a bomb. Police searched the plane for two hours. An airline spokeswoman says there was no bomb, just some young people joking around. The Associated Press reports one man was arrested.

And in northern California, a wave of surfboard thefts. Police say nearly three dozen boards have been stolen in the past two weeks and they wonder if it has anything to do with the sudden closure of a major West Coast surfboard maker.

An ice storm knocks out electricity to about 400,000 homes and businesses in the Carolinas. Duke Power says the storm inflicted major structural damage to overhead lines. The utility estimates some areas might not see electricity restored until Tuesday night -- ouch -- and it's urging affected customers to move to alternate locations.

Snow in Kansas, rain in Florida, a check of your weekend weather.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: As the world kicked off 2005, memories of a massive tsunami still lingered in our minds, memories swept away by additional, epic natural disasters. From hurricanes to earthquakes, Mother Nature made us recognize her power, and for this, we recognize her as a candidate for "TIME" magazine's person of the year.

NANCY GIBBS, EDITOR-AT-LARGE, "TIME": In the first weeks of the year, our attention was completely riveted to this astonishing, unfolding story of loss and shock and aid and rescue and that certainly was the defining story at the beginning of the year.

Then the hurricane season here that was like none other we'd ever had, and then finally the earthquakes in Pakistan. From beginning to end, the year seemed to be a year of disaster.

JAN SIMPSON, ASST. MANAGING EDITOR, "TIME": Well, I think a lot of people have said that because of the way Mother Nature has affected the year, people have stepped back and reflected on what's important. I think it's given us -- all of us -- a lot to think about in how we're living in this world.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

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WILLIS: Ice in some parts of the country, snow in others. What we need is a weather report. Monica McNeal is here to give us one -- Monica.

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WILLIS: Monica, thank you for that report.

There's more ahead on CNN Saturday. At the top of the hour, "CNN PRESENTS: 1,000 DAYS IN IRAQ." We'll show you the battles, the bloodshed, and the politics from the first 1,000 days of the Iraq war.

4:00 Eastern on CNN LIVE SATURDAY, drinking tea -- does it really help fight cancer?

And at 5:00 Eastern, a crackdown announced on child prostitution. You'll be surprised at the number of children involved. We'll be right back.

(WEATHER REPORT)

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