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CNN Live Saturday

Rescue Teams at Work After a Roof Collapses in Poland; Hamas Victory in Gaza Sparks Demonstrations; Space Shuttle Challenger Accident Commemorated

Aired January 28, 2006 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

CAROL LIN, CNN ANCHOR: Another roof collapse in Europe, this time in Poland. And hundreds of people were inside at the time. We are going to check live on the rescue that's going on right now.
And Hamas claims victory in Gaza. In the name of peace, will the U.S. deal with people it calls terrorists?

And infertility treatments and insurance -- the lengths couples go to get the expensive drugs.

Hello and welcome to CNN LIVE SATURDAY.

I'm Carol Lin.

All of that and more after this quick check of the headlines.

Remembering the Challenger seven. Relatives of the astronauts killed 20 years ago today returned to Kennedy Space Center to honor the lives lost. You are going to go there live.

Punished in Afghanistan -- an American soldier is sentenced to four months in detention for punching two detainees last summer. Army Specialist James Hayes will serve his time in Kuwait.

And President Bush and First Lady Laura Bush are dressing up for tonight's Alfalfa Club Dinner. This is a look at last year's arrivals. They will join some 600 guests for the annual roasting of politicians in about two hours from now.

To our top story right now.

There is a race against time to save people trapped after a roof collapse in southern Poland. Temperatures are already below freezing and it's been hours since something went terribly wrong at an exposition hall crowded with hundreds of people.

Anna Dudzinska from Polish Radio Katowice is on the scene of the collapse.

She joins me now by telephone -- Anna, what are you seeing right now?

ANNA DUDZINSKA, POLISH RADIO KATOWICE: What I see is exactly this building whom, from which roof has collapsed. And this is very dramatical, what I can see here, what I can hear here, because I came just after this tragedy. I met a lot of people coming here and looking for their families who are stuck under the roof construction. And that's terrible.

They, at the very beginning, had contact with them, calling by mobiles and they were trying to explain where they are really, exactly, in which place in this big hall and under this roof. And -- but now they don't have contact with mostly of people. So they just have to wait and see what the rescue teams say and what happens. It's really the most tragical place in Poland today.

LIN: Anna, do they know how many people are under the rubble and how many might still be alive?

DUDZINSKA: That's probably really the problem to judge, to guess. Probably there was even 1,000 people. But we try to believe that it was 100. But you can see the figures are so different that it's difficult to say.

What we really know, it's 12 dead people and 50 people in Silesian (ph) hospitals all around here because probably I can see even an ambulance which are still going through the building and back to the hospitals with casualties in ambulance.

LIN: Do you know if people are still able to call out on their mobiles, on their cell phones? Are there still conversations going on right now?

DUDZINSKA: The truth is that at the very beginning I was meeting people and they said oh, I was talking with my aunt, with my husband just a few seconds ago. Just help them, help them. But now people are not so optimistic, I'm afraid.

I just met a woman and she was really crying, crying so much, and saying that she ran away, she escaped. But her husband is under the roof somewhere in the middle of this hall, of this building. And she cannot contact with him by mobile. And there was even not the possibility to contact with him when she was escaping. So that seems to be really a tragedy.

LIN: Anna, it is.

It's so sad, as we watch these pictures and see what the odds may be that these rescuers can get to these people in time.

Anna Dudzinska, a Polish journalist with Polish Radio, thank you very much.

DUDZINSKA: Thank you.

LIN: Temperatures are now going somewhere around 22 degrees below zero out there during that rescue operation.

Now we want to turn to the turmoil in the Middle East.

It is another day of violence after elections that stunned Palestinians and the world. As the victors prepare to set up a government, anger and concern are growing.

CNN's Ben Wedeman is in Gaza.

(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)

BEN WEDEMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In Ramallah, they took to the roof of the Palestinian parliament. In Nablus, their guns did the talking. And in Gaza, for the second day running, several thousand Fatah rank and file strutted through the streets, venting rage at their own leaders and the militant Islamic group now set to take over the Palestinian Authority.

"Hamas are spies!" they chant. Gunmen and gun boys unwilling to cede power and admit defeat. "We want to keep control of parliament," this gunman tells me.

Like a military coup d'etat, I ask?

"Yes," he answers.

"Treason! Treason!" shouts this woman.

(on camera): After a fairly clean election, the Palestinians are now having to deal with a very tense aftermath in which many armed and potentially dangerous men are not accepting the results of the election.

(voice-over): Senior Fatah officials say they're confident they can reign their men in.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have had problems before. We were able to deal with them. And we were able to protect the democratic process and allow a peaceful change of government through the democratic process.

WEDEMAN: But if these are the men who are supposed to offer that protection, the Fatah dominated security services, the so-called democratic process may be in peril.

Rather than trying to restore law and order, they're protesting, as well. I asked one of their leaders, Nabil Tamuz (ph), if he conceded that Hamas had won the election. "It's a status quo we won't accept," he responds.

Having lost at the ballot box, Fatah militants are taking their battle back to the streets and show no sign of backing down.

Ben Wedeman, CNN, Gaza.

(END VIDEO TAPE)

LIN: Now, President Bush says the U.S. will not deal with Hamas and his administration will review U.S. aid to the Palestinians if Hamas leads a new government, as expected.

So where does this Hamas victory leave U.S. policy in the Middle East?

CNN's White House correspondent, Elaine Quijano, joins me now -- Elaine, the reaction at the White House, does this mean that the United States will not participate in any sort of peace deal between Israelis and the Palestinians?

ELAINE QUIJANO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, that's the big question right now, Carol, is how is the United States going to move forward after this democratically elected government, led by Hamas, in large part, which the United States has deemed, of course, a terrorist organization?

Well, President Bush, first of all, sending a stern message to Hamas after its surprising victory in the Palestinian elections. The rise to power, of course, a major complication for the Bush administration and its two state vision of an Israel and a Palestine living side by side in peace.

Now, in an interview, the president told CBS News that unless Hamas renounces violence and specifically its pledge to destroy Israel, the United States will move to cut off financial assistance to the Palestinian government.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BOB SCHIEFFER, CBS EVENING NEWS ANCHOR: What happens?

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Aid packages won't go forward. Well, that's their decision to make. But we won't be providing help to a government that wants to destroy our ally and friend. I don't see how you can be a partner in peace if you don't renounce violent aims.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

QUIJANO: And, of course, the difficult question facing the Bush administration, how to cut off aid to Hamas without punishing the Palestinian people.

Now, since 1993, the United States has provided some $1.5 billion of economic aid to the Palestinians. A State Department official, though, saying that the United States is committed to ensuring that Palestinians still receive humanitarian aid.

Now, the United States, of course, is waiting for the political dust to settle. Officials are being very cautious about weighing in as developments continue to unfold in the Middle East. But economic aid and the way forward in the Middle East peace process are going to be high on the agenda when Condoleezza Rice, the secretary of state, meets Monday in London with her counterparts from Russia, the United Nations and the European Union -- Carol.

LIN: Elaine, thank you.

Coming up, I'm going to be talking with someone who knows the Middle East well, and he is actually saying that the United States is over reacting to election results and he's urging the West to start talking with Hamas.

Mark Perry is going to join me live in five minutes.

A Christian aid group says it's encouraged that four Western workers taken hostage in Iraq in November still may be alive. New video of the men surfaced just today.

CNN's Aneesh Raman reports from Baghdad.

(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)

ANEESH RAMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: A new video airing on Arabic language station Al Jazeera purportedly shows four Western aid workers who were kidnapped in November last year. The video was shot, it is said, on January 21st. CNN cannot confirm the authenticity of that. But the four aid workers do look notably thinner, notably weaker than we last saw them in December last year.

All of them part of a group called Christian Peacemaker Teams in Iraq. They were abducted on November 26th. Among them, an American, a British and two Canadian nationals.

The group that is holding them reiterating the demands that they made last year -- the release of all Iraqi prisoners, saying in this latest video that this is "the last chance for that to take place."

Now, a spokesman for the group, Christian Peacemaker Teams, says that they are at least heartened by the fact that these four hostages remain alive. The earlier deadline of December 10th last year passed without any notice from the group holding them and it has been virtual silence since then, until this tape was released.

Now, this comes amid another agonizing wait for the family of American hostage Jill Carroll. The deadline set by her captors has been almost a week ago now. No news has been made, publicly, at least, as to her situation. But there is, perhaps, some hope being found in this latest news, this latest development of these other hostages, that despite this long period of silence that Jill Carroll's family is feeling, as well as the families of two Germans who are currently in insurgent custody, that they may still, in fact, be alive and that it may still be possible for them to be rescued.

Aneesh Rahman, CNN, Baghdad.

(END VIDEO TAPE)

LIN: Coming up, a story you will only see on CNN. What is leading so many to turn to black market drugs for fertility treatment?

And we're going to talk more about what is happening in the Middle East and whether Hamas truly is a terror organization. Is the United States over reacting?

Stay right there.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) LIN: The outcome of this week's Palestinian elections has shaken the Middle East and beyond. Hamas, the group sworn to Israel's destruction, won a landslide victory. The White House says it does not and will not deal with Hamas.

But my next guest says the U.S. has to talk with the group and listen to what it has to say.

Mark Perry is the Washington correspondent for the "Palestinian Report" and his book, "Fire In Zion," was the first best explanation of how this conflict really truly started back in the '60s.

Mark, good to have you.

MARK PERRY, "PALESTINIAN REPORT," DIRECTOR, CONFLICTS FORUM: Good to be here.

LIN: Mark, Hamas. Let's get one thing straight for our audience.

What has Hamas' role been in the terror suicide bombings against Israelis?

PERRY: They've had a prominent role, there's no question. They were responsible for bus bombings and cafe bombings. The last one of these took place in August of 2004. Since then, there haven't been any carried out by Hamas. They've tended to move back toward the center to become a political party.

I think they're reflecting their constituents' concerns. And we've seen this in the election. They got almost 70 percent of the v. They're now a democratic party, democratically elected. They're the new leadership of Palestine. We're going to have to deal with them.

LIN: But many people consider them killers, murderers.

So why is it that the United States really, your position is, should be dealing with them?

PERRY: Because talking to people is how you transform their politics. This happened throughout history in all kinds of political movements. We have to realize that Israel was founded by Hagenah (ph), the Irgun, the Stern gang. Many of their leaders later became prime ministers. They were wanted terrorists by the British administration.

So it is in this case. There are no guarantees that Hamas is going to give up violence or going to give up suicide bombings. But the evidence so far seems to suggest that they would right here participate in a political process and open a dialogue with the United States than do anything else.

LIN: And will the Fatah Party allow that to happen? I mean today was the second day of demonstrations in the streets, with Fatah supporters swearing that they will shoot anyone in the head who chooses to support Hamas. What do you do in a situation like that?

PERRY: It is very volatile and it is unstable. But I think that the Hamas rank and file are more concerned with their leadership's failure, with the old guard, the central committee, the Revolutionary Command Council. They want them unseated. And I think Abu Mazen, the current president of Palestine, made a mistake by not calling a party conference and electing people who had grassroots support. And it really hurt them at the polls.

I think what will happen here -- and there are good, strong signals that it will -- is that Fatah will find a way to cooperate with Hamas and they'll form a new government.

LIN: How is that going to happen? what do you see happening in the short-term to make that happen?

PERRY: We're going to have to be patient. It's going to take several days. Hamas leaders are in touch with the Fatah leadership. There is an attempt to dampen the protests in Gaza and the West Bank. There are real substantive discussions going on between the two parties on how to form a government. I think it's likely that a prime minister probably will not be a member of Hamas, will come from Fatah or an independent party. And there will be cooperation and an attempt to form a unity government.

LIN: Are there consequences for the president of the United States being so vocally against Hamas right now?

PERRY: There are. But I listened very closely to his press conference yesterday and it was very interesting what he said. He said that they had to renounce violence. That was expected. He said that they had to recognize Israel. That was expected.

But he also extolled the election and applauded the Palestinian people for voicing their concerns. And he clearly said that the United States is going to have to learn to deal with the results of democratic elections. And he's said this all the way along, that sometimes the results of votes aren't going to be what we like, but we should still stay the course. We should still promote democracy.

LIN: Well, in this case the Palestinian people so far have spoken. We'll see what happens next.

Mark, thank you.

PERRY: Thank you.

LIN: Mark Perry.

Coming up, hurricane Katrina evacuees are on a tight deadline. What is at stake is next.

An ordinary surveillance tape, right? Wrong. It led to the arrest of two suspected child abusers and it was a good Samaritan's persistence that helped make it all happen. That story coming up. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LIN: You've seen lots of pictures of them and lots of people along the Gulf Coast are waiting for one. But do you really know how much those FEMA trailers really cost?

CNN Gulf Coast correspondent Susan Roesgen found out why the government is paying so much.

(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)

ERIKA MALONE, HURRICANE VICTIM: And once you get back here...

SUSAN ROESGEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Squeeze past the air mattress in the hallway of Erika Malone's rented home in New Orleans and you'll walk right into a bedroom filled with stuff, lots of stuff. And more stuff stuffed in the bathroom. The entire worldly possessions of eight people living in one 800-square foot apartment.

MALONE: So how was your day today?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So-so again.

ROESGEN: Erika and her extended family have been waiting six weeks for two FEMA trailers. But FEMA spends about $60,000 for each of these plain white trailers over their estimated life span of 18 months. That works out to $3,300 per month. And for that much money, Erika could get something a lot nicer.

THERESA DEJARNETTE, REALTOR: It's two bedrooms, two-and-a-half baths, and it has all of the classic New Orleans architectural features.

ROESGEN: New Orleans' realtor Theresa DeJarnette showed us an elegant apartment.

DEJARNETTE: This is the parlor. Imelda Marcos could live in here.

ROESGEN: The apartment rents for $2,600 a month. That's $700 less than the government spends per month on a FEMA trailer.

MALONE: I would rather them give me the funding and I can actually go out and try to find a house to stay in for 18 months versus them putting a trailer on my property.

ROESGEN: FEMA spokesman Butch Kinerney told CNN that the price of the trailers is not limited to only the purchase price, but also shipping, maintenance, utilities and removal, each aspect at a fair price for the area and conditions. And, he says, for those who have lost their home in a devastated area, travel trailers or mobile homes can often be the most effective means of meeting that housing need.

FEMA does offer cash for housing assistance, but less than half of what it spends per trailer. And while Erika waits for her trailer, her two children will go to bed tonight, as they have for months, sleeping on the air mattress on the floor, while she sleeps on the sofa.

MALONE: Goodnight.

ROESGEN: Dreaming of a place of their own.

Susan Roesgen, CNN, New Orleans.

(END VIDEO TAPE)

LIN: An important deadline is approaching for hurricane evacuees. People who are staying in FEMA paid hotel rooms have until Monday to call FEMA and get a special authorization code that will extend their stay for at least one week. Now, that phone number is 1- 800-621-FEMA.

As of Thursday, about 60 percent of evacuees had contacted FEMA.

Other "Stories Across America" now.

Ford says it's appealing a huge verdict. A jury in Texas awarded $29.5 million to a woman in a blown tire case. The jury found Rose Munoz was partially paralyzed because of defects in a Ford designed Mazda Navajo and a Firestone tire.

Ford says the accident was due to driver error, and also noted that Munoz wasn't wearing her seat belt. Firestone settled its part of the case.

A movie version of the best-seller, "A Million Little Pieces," reportedly may not get made. The "Los Angeles Times" says Warner Brothers has put the film project on hold. According to the newspaper, the company says author James Frey's admission that much of his memoir is fiction has forced it to reevaluate the proposed screenplay.

And figure skater Michelle Kwan gets another shot at the elusive Olympic gold medal. The U.S. Figure Skating Association has granted her an injury waiver to compete in next month's Olympic Games. Kwan secured a spot on the U.S. team by proving to a panel she's recovered from a groin injury.

Now, two suspected child abusers are in jail this morning and it's all thanks to a chance meeting in a convenience store and a good Samaritan who acted on a hunch.

CNN's David Mattingly has that story.

(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)

TRACI LEE DEAN, GOOD SAMARITAN: I'd like to report a strange incident involving a child.

DAVID MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This scene in a gas station at Evergreen, Alabama is what led Traci Lee Dean to call police. You can hear the concern in her voice in the worried 911 call. DEAN: After a few minutes I was like, "OK, why is this little girl wandering around here by herself?" So I gave her a good five minutes. Then I said, "Does your mommy work here?" And she said, "No." And then this man was like, "Elizabeth, are you trying to find a new mommy?"

MATTINGLY: It was this little girl you see here in the surveillance video and her brief encounter with Dean that started this one woman's crusade and ended this one little girl's nightmare.

DEAN: I've seen that look before, that blank look, that there's something missing. I call it -- I consider it like they're missing love.

MATTINGLY: Police followed up on Dean's 911 call and went to the gas station.

SHERIFF TRACY HAWSEY, CONECUH COUNTY: The clerk said that she knew these people, that they frequent the store, that they come in a good bit and that the older gentleman is the grandfather of the little girl.

MATTINGLY: Even though she was back home in Georgia, Traci took matters into her own hands. On a Web site for abducted children, she thought she had found a match. A 300-mile drive back to Evergreen put her back in that store looking at their surveillance tapes.

Police were brought in and visited the family at their trailer park, where they arrested the man who'd raised Traci Dean's suspicions. Jack Wiley is charged with sex crimes against the 3-year- old girl and a 17-year-old boy who lived with him. Wiley's companion, Glenna Faye Cavender, is charged with child abuse. Both are now behind bars. The children are in protective custody.

Neighbors in the trailer park where they lived for the past month or so are shaken.

ERICA FOSTER, NEIGHBOR: They just kept saying, "Well, if you ever need a babysitter, we can watch them."

MATTINGLY: Local authorities are canvassing the area and interviewing local children.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We've got possibly some other kids in that area that had some contact with Mr. Wiley.

MATTINGLY: The next step is a DNA test to determine the two children's real parents and a national search to find any other children this couple might have encountered.

David Mattingly, CNN, Evergreen, Alabama.

(END VIDEO TAPE)

LIN: America's richest man is doling out more money and almost -- we're talking about almost a billion dollars this time. We've got the recipients of this generous gift.

And it is a somber day at the Kennedy Space Center.

John Zarrella has a preview of what's coming up there -- John.

JOHN ZARRELLA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Carol, NASA remembers -- a ceremony here today marking the 20th anniversary of the Challenger accident.

I'll have that story ahead.

(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice-over): Isaac Berzin is putting a positive spin on pond scum. He designed a system that uses algae to eat the excess carbon dioxide released from power plants. The gas enters the device and then exits about 40 percent cleaner.

ISAAC BERZIN, FOUNDER, GREENFUEL TECHNOLOGIES CORPORATION: The reason to work with algae is because algae are the fastest growing plants on Earth. And they also have a tendency to adapt to extreme environments.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The algae live in tubes of water constantly rotating along this triangular shaped system. And this tiny green organisms don't just reduce pollution, they also produce fuels.

BERZIN: You can separate them from the water. And algae are just little bags with oil. And then you take the oil and make biodiesel out of that.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's more common to use vegetable oil than algal oil to make fuel, but vegetables require fertile land and fresh water. Berzin's system does not.

BERZIN: You're not really competing with agriculture. You can develop a whole new technology, a whole new industry around places that no one thought that could ever be used for anything.

(END VIDEO TAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAROL LIN, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome back. Here are the latest developments.

Rescuers in southern Poland are trying to save people trapped after a roof collapse at an exhibition hall. Police say at least 12 people were killed. At least 100 others remain trapped under the rubble. Officials believe heavy snow caused that roof to collapse.

And in Gaza and the West Bank, hundreds of armed demonstrators surrounded Palestinian government buildings today. They were protesting the militant group Hamas' victory in elections this week. Demonstrators also called for the resignation of leaders in the Fatah Party. They blamed election losses on the party's failure to reform. And Georgians are stocking up to heat with Kerosene as the country freezes through another day without gas or power. The former Soviet Republic has lost supplies from Russia. Georgian officials say Iran has agreed to provide the country with natural gas possibly starting Sunday.

And mourning and reflection at Florida's Kennedy space center. Twenty years ago today the space shuttle Challenger blew apart shortly after takeoff killing seven astronauts as their families and the world looked on. CNN's John Zarrella was covering the launch at Kennedy and he is there again today. John?

JOHN ZARRELLA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Carol, yes, certainly hard to believe 20 years have passed since that day. It was cold and clear here, 36 degrees out at launch pad, we stood no more than five miles away waiting for Challenger to liftoff. Here today NASA paused to remember its own. Friends and family, former astronauts, NASA officials gathered for a ceremony that lasted about an hour and a half.

There were certainly speeches in memory of the astronauts. Memorializing the Challenger seven. Again, 20 years ago today, Challenger lifted off at 11:38 a.m. on a mission that lasted just over one minute.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ZARRELLA (voice-over): Olivia Guitard laid two roses at the foot of the memorial. One for her late mother who loved the space program, the other for the crew of Challenger.

OLIVIA GUITARD, TOURIST: Twenty years ago today we had our children here at Disneyland. And we looked up in the sky and saw this. The whole accident as it happened. And so we said we have to come back today.

ZARRELLA: Hundreds of people came here Saturday to honor the memory of the fallen astronauts. June Scobee Rodgers, wife of Challenger Commander Dick Scobee, laid a wreath below the memorial mirror which is inscribed with the names of 24 astronauts who have passed. She spoke of how her late husband viewed the risk of space flight.

JUNE SCOBEE RODGERS, COMMANDER SCOBEE'S WIDOW: And he often would quote Wilbur Wright, one of the Wright brothers. And said if you want perfect safety in a flight, you have to sit on the fence and watch the birds fly.

ZARRELLA: Challenger was supposed to be a crowning moment in the shuttle program. Seven astronauts, among them Christa McAuliffe. She would be the first teacher in space. Under a cold, blue sky, Challenger lifted off.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have main engine start - four, three, two, one. And liftoff. Liftoff of the 25th space shuttle mission and it has cleared the tower.

ZARRELLA: The flight would last only 73 seconds.

The Rodgers Commission formed to investigate concluded the solid rocket booster seals called O-rings had failed. Hot gases escaped and very quickly ruptured the main fuel tank. The shuttle fleet was grounded. Another teacher never flew. For retired Maryland schoolteacher Colleen Cronland it was important to be here.

COLLEEN CRONLAND, RETIRED SCHOOLTEACHER: And I was a science teacher in the schools when this happened. So it's pie interest, it was my profession. And my birthday. So I came to honor her.

ZARRELLA: The people who came here all said it is important we not forget those who died paving the way to the future.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ZARRELLA (on camera): There is tragic coincidence in this week for NASA. Yesterday nearly 40 years since the Apollo I, fire Grissom, Chafee and White dying in that fire. Today marks the anniversary of Challenger and on February 1st next week march the 3rd anniversary of the Columbia disaster. Carol?

LIN: John, personal perspective, please. Why do you think some people who go to this memorial who never knew personally any of these astronauts, or have any connection to the space program, why does this story still bring tears to their eyes?

ZARRELLA: So much of it because so many people saw it. CNN was carrying it live. One of the only television organizations that carried the launch live but it was seen all over the world. So, so many people can reflect back and say, I was there when. And it touch so many people because of the fact that Christa McAuliffe was on that flight, to be first teacher in space, going to teach two lessons on orbit. And finally, Carol, I remember very vividly being here for several days waiting on that launch. And there were so many teachers here. And so many classes of students who came from all over the country to see the flight. So there are so many memories for many, many people.

LIN: Yeah, it's like a little bit of all us were on that flight. Right, John?

ZARRELLA: Yes, it is.

LIN: Thanks very much.

Well, desperate people do desperate things including engaging in elicit drug deals in the hope of starting a family. A CNN investigation into black market fertility drugs is up next when CNN LIVE SATURDAY returns.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LIN: The longing to have a baby, and he underworld of illicit drugs. What can those two possibly have in common? Well, how about a health issue so sensitive, many doctors won't even discuss it. It is a story you will only see on CNN from correspondent Randi Kaye.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Phillipsburg, New Jersey, I'm in need of Ganal F (ph). I am self paying and don't have a lot of cash left. I need 475 IU. Please help me.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Easton, Maryland, I have a 14-day supply of Luprotkit (ph) purchased in the U.S. and stored properly. Buyer pays shipping.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I met with them in a parking lot. And gave them the drugs and they gave me the money.

RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Welcome to the underground world of infertility. Web sites, chat rooms, conversations. Here couples desperate to have a baby barter and beg for unused infertility medications. For hundreds, sometimes thousands dollars less than they pay at the pharmacy. It is a dangerous and growing trend in a world where a single treatment can cost $12 to $15,000. And insurance coverage is hard to come by.

"STEPHANIE", BOUGHT INFERTILITY DRUGS ONLINE: This was a necessity for in vitro only. I mean, there's no other reason why I would want to buy drugs off the Internet.

KAYE (voice-over): This woman asked us not to use her real name, so we'll call her Stephanie. Stephanie and her husband, like more than six million other Americans are unable to have a baby. They chose in vitro fertilization, or IVF, in order to have their own child. But there was a problem.

STEPHANIE: IVF was not covered through my insurance at all. No drugs, no procedures, nothing.

KAYE: And there's no guarantee it will work. A couple has a one in five chance of having a baby after a cycle of IVF. In order to find affordable medications, Stephanie, like many others, turned to the Internet.

STEPHANIE: There is a network of people out there that are willing to help you that have leftover drugs that can sell them to you at a reduced cost. Because you have a prescription that your doctor gives you and it's just an alternative way of getting the prescription drugs.

CARMEN CATIZONE, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, NATIONAL BOARD OF PHARMACIES: Just because it's a fertility drug which people may think is reasonably safe doesn't make it any different than if they were trading cocaine or trading other products on the Internet. It's still illegal and it's still dangerous.

KAYE: Carmen Catizone is the executive director of the National Board of Pharmacies, which is designed to protect the public health in dealing with pharmaceuticals. CATIZONE: They could be expired medications, they could have been tampered with, they could be medications that not only cause harm to the mom but could also cause harm to the fetus or the baby that could be born later.

KAYE: But that is a risk many people like this man feel they have to take.

"SCOTT", BOUGHT INFERTILITY DRUGS: If it makes you a criminal, then that's what it has made me.

CATIZONE: We'll call him Scott. He lives in one of 36 states where health insurers are not mandated by law to cover some part of infertility treatments. Without the mandate, neither his or (sic) his wife's insurance will cover the treatments. So just a few weeks ago he found himself in a parking lot of a K-Mart, exchanging an envelope of cash in an insulated cooler for a supply of drugs at a discounted price from a woman we will call Jennifer who had extra medications after IVF was no longer a viable option.

"JENNIFER", SOLD INFERTILITY DRUGS TO SCOTT: I felt like a drug dealer.

SCOTT: We laughed nervously. This was the K-Mart connection, you know. We're passing drugs back and forth through a window.

JENNIFER: I didn't make any financial gain off of it. That wasn't my intention. I had medication leftover, so I just thought the best thing to do would be to maybe sell it to somebody else who could use it.

SCOTT: If the health insurance industry paid for the medications and the procedure, there would be absolutely no reason to have to do a deal through a car window.

KAYE: Susan Pisano is spokeswoman for the largest trade association for health plans. Pisano says the decision doesn't fall with the insurance plans directly but rather the employer.

(on camera): Has your group ever recommended that fertility treatments be covered?

SUSAN PISANO, AMERICAN HEALTH INSURANCE PLANS: We believe that the decision about what an employer can afford is an employer decision.

KAYE: So yes or no, has your group ever suggested or recommended that infertility treatments be covered.

PISANO: Our groups believe that whether it's covered by individual employers is that employer's decision.

KAYE: So no?

I don't know about you but I find it hard to believe that employers and insurance will cover things like Viagra, even abortions, so in other words, insurance will help pay for someone to have sex, they'll help pay for someone to actually get rid of a child, but they won't help pay for someone to have a child. That surprises me.

PISANO: What you have is employers cover a combination of things. They cover things where there's evidence that they work to achieve a good health outcome.

KAYE (voice-over): But for people like Jennifer, it's not about good evidence. It's about fulfilling a dream.

JENNIFER: What the intention is about is honorable. It's about getting pregnant and being able to afford to get pregnant.

KAYE: But the drugs may cost couple it is more than cash.

CATIZONE: Unfortunately this trend won't stop and won't decrease until we see a major tragedy where somebody receives medications that are deadly or medications that cause significant harm.

KAYE: It was worth the risk to Stephanie. Using medication she bought on the Internet. Just last month she and her husband gave birth to a baby boy. That's priceless.

Randi Kaye, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LIN: Well, as you just learned, many insurance companies refuse it pay for fertility drugs. So I'm going to take a closer look now at fertility drugs. How insurance companies view them and the dangers of using them without doctor's supervision. Dr. Carmen Catizone, you saw him in the piece. He's the executive director of the National Association of Boards of Pharmacies. His group helps pharmacy boards in the U.S. and around the world protect public health. Doctor Catizone, good to have you.

CATIZONE: Good evening, Carol.

LIN: How long do fertility drugs last? I mean, if someone wants to sell them, for how long are they good?

CATIZONE: That's a big question, carol. Pause we have people that may be well-intentioned and storing medications under conditions that the medications were not supposed to be stored under. Those medications could last a day, they could last months. The uncertainty is what problem is and people not knowing how to store those medications properly.

LIN: So what would happen to somebody if they got medication that was stored improperly?

CATIZONE: Unfortunately, the medication, if it's been stored improperly the patient could be injured or cause damage to the fertilization process or even cause some birth defects or injure the baby once the baby was born.

LIN: So why don't insurers cover fertility drugs? If they cover Viagra, why wouldn't they cover fertility drugs? CATIZONE: That's a question no one seems to be able to answer. If you ask the insurance companies they are going to say it's an employers' decision but I am not sure if the employers have been given all of the information. From a patient care perspective this is a legitimate medical condition, there is recognized medical therapy and the fertility drugs are approved medications. It seems the only reason the insurance companies won't cover it is bottom line, cost.

LIN: It is too expensive?

CATIZONE: Yes.

LIN: So can employers change that? Can employers influence what health insurers offer to employees?

CATIZONE: Sure. It's the employer that makes the decision, but again, is the employer given the information about what's best for their employees, what's the best patient therapy, the employer could decide to cover that for their employees and much of this problem would go away.

LIN: Is there a legal way to -- or more appropriate way to get cheaper drugs?

CATIZONE: The patients can work with their doctors. And the doctors could work with pharmaceutical companies where there are assistance programs that provide the medications for free or a much reduced cost over the employees or people can work with their legislators and try and get insurance companies to be mandated to cover these medications.

LIN: Well, if take an average of three to seven years to pass legislation, many couples don't have that time if they want to have a baby.

CATIZONE: It's a desperate situation that people are placed in and unfortunately it's based upon the cost of medications and not the health and welfare of the patient.

LIN: Dr. Catizone, the figure around $12,000, is that just for the drugs alone over the entire process for in vitro?

CATIZONE: I believe that's entire process but drugs themselves are very expensive. And significant part of that $12,000 of that cost.

LIN: Half? Are we talking about $5,000, $6,000?

CATIZONE: I would say half to three quarters of the process is probably the cost of the drug.

LIN: That is a lot of money to most people.

CATIZONE: Yes.

LIN: Dr. Catizone, thank you. All right, Oprah Winfrey made it easy but not all celebrities have the same luck. Straight ahead, CNN's Jeanne Moos and the art of the celebrity apology.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LIN: You've probably heard it by now, Oprah Winfrey apologizing for defending James Frey's embellished memoir "A Million Little Pieces." But the talk show host isn't the famous person it say "I'm sorry" to the world. There is a long list of celebrities who have fessed up to the public and sometimes very private mistakes. CNN's Jeanne Moos reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JEANNE MOOS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): If sorry really is the hardest word, Oprah sure made it look easy.

WINFREY: I regret that phone call.

MOOS: A call she made to "LARRY KING," ...

WINFREY: ... still resonates with me and I ...

MOOS: ... defending Author James Frey.

WINFREY: And I made a mistake and I left the impression that the truth does not matter. And I am deeply sorry about that.

MOOS: Now that's an apology and not some sorry excuse for one.

MIKE TYSON, BOXER: Evander, I am sorry.

MOOS: Sorry, for biting off a piece of your ear.

(MUSIC)

RUSSELL CROWE, ACTOR: I'm extremely sorry for...

MOOS: For throwing a phone at a hotel worker.

(MUSIC)

MOOS: Brenda Lee's, "I'm Sorry," is one of over 300 songs with "sorry" in it. There are those iffy sorries that begin with if. For instance, when Arnold Schwarzenegger was accused of groping and insulting women...

ARNOLD SCHWARZENEGGER, GOVERNOR OF CALIFORNIA: If I've done anything wrong, that where I thought that I am playful and been just, you know, have fun. I feel bad about that.

MOOS: Apologies for sexual misbehavior often feature a supportive wife.

KOBE BRYANT, LOS ANGELES LAKERS: Furious at myself, disgusted at myself. I'm so sorry.

MOOS: When sex is involved, say between a movie star and an alleged prostitute, the highly anticipated apology is something to promote.

ANNOUNCER: And Jay asks Hugh Grant the one question everybody's been wondering.

JAY LENO, TALK SHOW HOST: What the hell were you thinking?

HUGH GRANT, ACTOR: I need to suffer for this. You know, I've done an abominable thing. I did a bad thing and there you have it.

MOOS: But when it was President Clinton's turn, his original lie was more passionate than his eventual admission.

BILL CLINTON, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I did not have sexual relations with that woman.

Indeed I did have a relationship with Ms. Lewinsky that was not appropriate.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I wanted more groveling.

MOOS: And eventually there was.

CLINTON: I don't think there is a fancy way to say that I have sinned.

MOOS: Oh, there's a fancy way, with tears.

JIMMY SWAGGART, TELEVANGELIST: I have sinned against you, my Lord.

MOOS: And then there were those who voted against George Bush and apologized to the world after his election on the, "Sorry Everybody" Web site.

One of the most abject apologies came from the South Korean scientist recently exposed for faking cloning research.

DR. HWANG WOO-SUK, STEM CELL RESEARCHER (through translator): I feel so miserable that it's difficult even to say sorry.

MOOS (on camera): But the most impersonal sorry, the lamest sorry, the sorriest sorry of all, is the one we hear on hold.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sorry we're having so much trouble.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm sorry, but I'm not exactly sure what you want.

MOOS: All we want is to hear what Oprah said to her critics.

WINFREY: You are absolutely right.

MOOS: Jeanne Moos, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LIN: And we have this just in to the CNN Center. We have an update a number of people who have died in that roof collapse in Katowice, Poland. Twenty people now officially declared dead. And there still may be hundreds if not -- if at least 100 people underneath that roof collapse after heavy snow gathered up on that rooftop.

We'll give you the very latest on that tragedy and so much more news around the world in the next hour. Stay right there.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LIN: This is CNN SATURDAY. I'm Carol Lin. Coming up in this hour, a deadly roof collapse overseas. Those trapped inside use their cell phones to call for help. A live report from the scene straight ahead.

And a woman who didn't like she saw in an Alabama convenience store and it may have saved two kids from sexual abuse. Today one of the store's managers tells me what he saw.

And a picture of a perfect family, only now his wife and baby are dead and the husband leaves the country. New details in the investigation.

But first, the headlines. New Palestinian leadership and a new Palestinian problem. Money. President Bush says the newly elected Hamas government is cut off from American aid unless the militant group drops its hard line toward Israel.

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