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CNN Live Saturday

Slobodan Milosevic Found Dead in his Cell; American Hostage Found Dead in the Street in Iraq; Former Bush Aid Arrested; Would Be Kidney Donor on the Run

Aired March 11, 2006 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Hello. Now in the news, in the Netherlands, an investigation is now under way following the death of Slobodan Milosevic; the former Yugoslav president was found dead in his cell at The Hague where he was on trial on war crimes charges. An autopsy was ordered. Milosevic led the former Yugoslavia during its breakup in the 1990s. A full report straight ahead.
Family members and colleagues of slain American hostage Tom Fox are mourning his death. Police found Fox's body two days ago in a Baghdad neighborhood. He had been shot in the head. And Iraqi police say he appears to have been tortured before he was killed. Fox was one of four Christian peacemaker activists kidnapped in late November. More details on that story coming up.

President Bush is warning Iran and Syria not to meddle in Iraq's internal affairs. The U.S. says Damascus is helping insurgents by allowing foreign fighters to pass into Iraq and Tehran is fueling radicalism among Iraqi Shiites and allowing bomb makers to travel into Iraq.

President Bush says he's shocked by the arrest of a former trusted advisor. Claude Allen, Mr. Bush's former top domestic political adviser faces charges in Maryland for allegedly swindling two stores out of more than $5,000 in a refund scam. Allen abruptly resigned from the administration last month.

For the first time in Chile's history, a woman is now heading the country's government. Michelle Bachulet was sworn in this morning. Bachulet, a socialist was jailed and tortured under military dictator Augusto Pinochet.

WHITFIELD: Hello and welcome to "CNN LIVE SATURDAY", I'm Fredricka Whitfield. Ahead this hour, the latest on the search for a fugitive who said he would donate his kidney to his son, then apparently ran from the law. And our legal experts will look at how the case against Enron's former top executives has been going in Texas. But first, more on our top story.

The death of Slobodan Milosevic, tyrant, butcher, monster, some of the words people are using to describe him today. Milosevic presided over the blood-soaked breakup of Yugoslavia. Nearly a decade of war in the Balkans killed an estimated 200,000 people. He was on trial at The Hague, charged with crimes against humanity. Today, Hague officials say Milosevic was found dead in his cell. They say there was no indication of suicide. Milosevic suffered from high blood pressure and heart problems. Richard Holbrooke dealt with Milosevic through the 1990s, he negotiated the Dayton Accords, which ended the Bosnian war. The former UN ambassador talked with CNN about Milosevic.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RICHARD HOLBROOKE, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO THE U.N.: I'm not going to shed any tears for him, he was a sociopath, he had no real emotions about people. By the way, both his own parents committed suicide. He was a communist opportunist and he became an opportunistic nationalist. He -- his actions led to the deaths of over 300,000 people, four wars, the destruction of stability in southeastern Europe, the creation of criminal gangs. Let's talk about the victims of his actions. He was never going to see daylight again. And that was appropriate and now he's gone.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: Milosevic's lawyer is raising the possibility that his client was poisoned. The family is demanding an autopsy be performed in Moscow, but The Hague says no to that. CNN's Brent Sadler covered the Balkans extensively during the 1990s, he joins me now from Beirut. And why Brent can't an autopsy be held in Moscow?

BRENT SADLER, SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, primarily, Fredricka, the jurisdiction over the remains of Slobodan Milosevic very much firmly in the hands of The Hague Tribunal. Just to clarify, we spoke to Mira Milosevic, the widow of Slobodan Milosevic, she's in Moscow. And she has been telling associates of her husband that she would like an independent autopsy to take place still after The Hague authorities have finished theirs.

Now given the way autopsies work in terms of removal of vital organs, examination, dissection, and also weighing of organs, it's difficult to see how that might take place after what's happened in The Hague. But certainly, her and her advisers are insisting that they won't be satisfied alone with what The Hague doctors come up with. Mira Milosevic told CNN earlier this day, that she was "Blaming The Hague tribunal for killing her husband." Fredricka?

WHITFIELD: And why, then is Milosevic's attorney among those who's saying, he's going as far as saying he believes Milosevic may have been poisoned?

SADLER: Well Milosevic was in more or less daily telephone contact with lawyers and advisers. Albeit he conducted his own defense in court, but he was very much in contact with people in Serbia from a variety of walks of life, both legal, political and otherwise. And one of the members of those legal types that had been advising him, says that Milosevic suspected he was being poisoned, which is why we've heard a statement from The Hague authorities saying not only has an investigation been ordered, also an autopsy. But in addition, toxology reports as well, presumably to counter those allegations.

WHITFIELD: And so we know Brent that he had failing health, but is there any thought as to how seriously ill he was and whether it is a realistic scenario that he may have died of natural causes?

SADLER: Oh, I think from what we can gather so far having spoken to many associates and his wife, that he had been suffering ill health for quite some time. Conducting his own proceedings, had failed on several occasions because he simply wasn't fit enough to be in court. And his own request to be transferred to Russia for medical treatment had only been denied, according to legal advisers within the past two weeks. There have been concerns in The Hague tribunal that had Milosevic been able to go for treatment inside Russia, treatment he could equally have gotten in the Netherlands, but he might have used that as some sort of ploy to avoid going back to the Netherlands to face trial.

WHITFIELD: All right, Brent Sadler in Beirut, thank you so much. Hostage horror, an American Christian activist is tortured and killed in Iraq, his body dumped on a roadside. Tom Fox was kidnapped last November. CNN's Aneesh Raman has the latest from the Iraqi capital.

ANEESH RAMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: U.S. officials confirming they have found the body of American hostage Tom Fox, first discovered by Iraqi police in the Al Mansour area of Baghdad, an area that has seen a number of westerners kidnapped. The body was found wrapped in a blanket, a gunshot to the head, his hands and feet bound, showing signs of torture as well. The Iraqi police handed the remains over to the U.S. military, the FBI eventually confirming the identity, that it was the body of American Tom Fox.

He was kidnapped in the capital along with three other members of a group called Christian Peacekeepers Team. They were in Iraq for the sake of peace. The group today reacting to the news, spoke of Tom's life, mourned his passing and expressed their condolences for his family. The last we saw of the hostages was earlier this week, a video broadcast on Arabic language station Al Jazeera. It showed the two Canadian and British hostages, it did not show Tom Fox, that had raised concern about his fate and now this news has raised concern about the fate of the three remaining hostages. Aneesh Raman, CNN, Baghdad.

WHITFIELD: Fox was part of a Quaker Christian peacemaker team working in Iraq. Members of the Langley Hills Friends Meeting have been talking about his death and the deaths of other people in Iraq.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DOUG SMITH, LANGLEY HILLS FRIENDS MEETING: Tom's story is being shared widely. The stories of those other losses have not been. We at Langley Hill will honor Tom's courage by ensuring that the work to which he was dedicated continues and that all the stories of loss, not just Langley Hills, are told.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: President Bush is laying the groundwork this week for a new push to win support for his policies on Iraq. Earlier today, he met with defense secretary Donald Rumsfeld and top military commanders and Monday Mr. Bush begins a series of speeches on Iraq. We check in now with CNN White House correspondent Elaine Quijano. Hello Elaine.

ELAINE QUIJANO, WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Hello to you Fredricka. And that briefing this morning here at the White House centered on the problem of IEDs, or improvised explosive devices. A senior administration official says that these devices have really become almost exclusively the weapons of choice for insurgents and people in Iraq trying to insight sectarian violence.

That is why we saw President Bush earlier today sitting down for a briefing on IEDs. He was joined by the defense secretary, Donald Rumsfeld and also a retired army general, Montgomery Miggs to get an update on how the military is trying to counter the threat of those devices. But this meeting really part of a larger effort by the White House as you noted to continue trying to drive home to Americans that there is a plan for victory in Iraq.

The president, as you noted, is set to begin a series of speeches. The first one will be on Monday. He'll have two more this month, perhaps a couple in April as well and other administration officials taking part in this renewed push. The vice president expected to make some remarks about this as well. Fredricka?

WHITFIELD: And Elaine, shifting gears quite a bit. What a blow this must have been to the president as well as others who know the former White House adviser Claude Allen who apparently has been arrested and charged.

QUIJANO: Well that's exactly right. And President Bush was asked about that after the briefing this morning about Claude Allen, his former domestic policy adviser who was arrested Thursday in Maryland on charges of retail theft. Now, authorities in Montgomery County Maryland allege that Allen actually made some fraudulent returns they say at two department stores. The president learned about Allen's arrest last night through media reports and today he said that he was shocked to hear this story.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: If the allegations are true, something went wrong in Claude Allen's life, and that is really sad.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

QUIJANO: Now here's a little bit more on the background of this. White House officials say that back on January 2nd, when there was an incident at Target involving Allen, Allen actually called the White House chief of staff Andy Card, notified him of the matter immediately, the next day talked to Andy Card in person. Also the White House counsel, Harriet Myers and reassured them that essentially this was a misunderstanding, that there was some confusion about his credit cards because he moved a number of times. And then a few days after that, according to the White House press secretary, Scott McClellan, Allen said that he wanted to resign to spend more time with his family. So, of course, this news coming out, Allen's last day here at the White House was about three weeks ago back on February 17th, and the way that White House officials really learned about this again was not through Allen or any other routes. It was really through the news media that they found out about this last night. Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: All right, Elaine Quijano at The White House, thank you so much. And this just in -- we've been reporting to you all morning the death of the Yugoslav president Slobodan Milosevic found dead in his cell at The Hague while awaiting trial. But now we're hearing from the Netherlands, from The Hague that the autopsy of the former president will be held now on Sunday.

A Dutch medical team will be conducting the autopsy and a senior pathologist from the Serbian capital Belgrade will be in attendance. This according to the tribunal official, but still unclear whether Milosevic's wife's request for an independent autopsy to take place in Moscow will be considered or not. Of course, when we get any more information, we'll be able to bring it to you. But this information thus far that Sunday will be the autopsy being carried out at The Hague there.

Now there is a little bit of everything out there this weekend from sunshine to snow. We'll get a check of your weather straight ahead. And they call it a cattle call. Find out why the elephants are so interested.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CARLEY RONEY, EDITOR IN CHIEF & CO-FOUNDER, THE KNOT: My definition of success is about having created something from nothing.

WHITFIELD: Carley Roney did just that by turning tying the knot into an engaging and profitable business. "The Knot" is a wedding planning website that Roney and her husband started in 1996 and in just seven years, made it the nation's number one wedding resource.

RONEY: I think that being an entrepreneur really takes a lot of naivety. You just have to have an intense devotion to your concept, and, of course, a willingness to get in there and do the dirty work. You have to be willing to put everything on the line to make it happen.

WHITFIELD: As editor in chief, Roney oversees all content on the site as well as for the magazine. And still finds time to write her online advice column, "Ask Carley." Roney also launched "The Nest," a site for the just married crowd on what to expect from marriage. Future goals include seeing customers through other life changes like having a baby.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WHITFIELD: We'll take a look outside. Some pretty severe weather in the heartland. Bonnie Schneider is in the weather center. Bonnie.

BONNIE SCHNEIDER, CNN METEROLOGIST: Fredricka we just got this in, there's a tornado watch that's now issued for parts of Missouri on into Arkansas. And it does include some big cities like Springfield and Ft. Smith. And as you can see, it's a pretty large area. Now we have seen some strong thunderstorms develop in this vicinity over the past hour.

As we take a closer look you'll find one that's just south of Tulsa we've been watching. This is an area for a severe thunderstorm watch in effect. Most of this is moving to the northeast. And as we take a closer look, it doesn't look too menacing right now, but we're getting some strong cells that are developing. We can see that in the darkness of the color on our radar picture. We also have a lot of rain through the heartland. It's been heavy at times and has caused flooding. We still had flood watches posted for a good portion of this part of the country into the Midwest.

So heavy rain for Columbus down through Charleston and back out towards Louisville, Kentucky. And as we slide off to the west, you'll see a welcome site in Arizona, rain and snow. We have some new pictures that just came in from Carefree, Arizona. And there's snow on the ground. How's that for feeling carefree. Well some good news there, because this is an area that has not seen rain or snow since last October.

As we take a look at temperatures in Arizona right now, we have about some in the 40s and so it's a little bit cooler up towards Mesa, Arizona. But then once you start heading towards the San Juan Valley, we're looking at temperatures that are a little bit colder into the 30s. So the snow will be sustained here while it will be mostly rain for Phoenix. We did see some snow earlier in the morning. And this is such welcome rain as I mentioned because the area has been drought stricken for so long.

Now looking at the big picture, talking about the severe weather setup for today. This is going to be a very active weekend. As far as strong thunderstorms and the possibility of even tornadoes breaking out. Here's the reason why. We're still in winter but we're transitioning very, very closely now into spring. And we still have the two contrasts of the air mass. The cool air coming down from the west and the warm air ahead of it.

And here's our front slicing right through Oklahoma at this time. As we work our way through the afternoon hours, one of our biggest concerns will be hail. We have very cool air aloft in the upper levels of the atmosphere. That combining with some of this warm moist air at the lower levels, this could be a very busy day. As far as strong thunderstorms go, Fredricka, so we'll be watching it very closely.

WHITFIELD: We will, indeed. And it was a little enjoyable seeing that shot, that aerial view of Carefree, Arizona. We want to show it to you again, because, you know, it is sort of a little prickly situation, not because of the cactus, but look at that owl just perched so comfortably on the little snowcaps there.

SCHNEIDER: I think it's sort of like better late than never, right.

WHITFIELD: I guess so.

SCHNEIDER: The last blast of winter finally getting some snow.

WHITFIELD: Yeah, whatever kind of precipitation the folks in Arizona can get, I guess they'll take it, right?

SCHNEIDER: Absolutely. It's welcome and the owl looks happy.

WHITFIELD: All right. Thanks so much, Bonnie. Well, the next U.S. presidential election is still more than 2-1/2 years away. But among republicans, political jockeying is already going on. Some potential GOP candidates are part of the mix as republican activists gathered this weekend in Memphis. Here's CNN's senior national correspondent John Roberts.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOHN ROBERTS, SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): No matter how you say it, cattle call, opening bell in the '08 elections, a chance to kick the tires on the new republican models. It is the first official opportunity for hopefuls to hit the stage as potential presidential candidates.

SEN. JOHN MCCAIN, (R) ARIZONA: I know many in the media view this conference at least in part as a beauty contest for potential candidates for the republican presidential nomination in '08. Well, you can see I'm no beauty. I am older than dirt. I have more scars than Frankenstein. But I have learned a few things along the way.

ROBERTS: John McCain is the presumed front-runner, a campaign veteran who has worked since his 2000 bid to mend fences with conservatives. The other five hopefuls here this weekend, Massachusetts governor Mitt Romney, Arkansas governor Mike Huckabee and senators Bill Frist, Sam Brownback from Kansas and Virginia's George Allen.

SEN. GEORGE ALLEN, (R) VIRGINIA: It's good to see folks getting charged up. You like to get people motivated for something in the future.

ROBERTS: The field this year is wide open. The first time since 1908 a sitting president or vice president haven't run. But the delegates, the conference is pretty much one-stop shopping.

DEBBIE LOVE, DELEGATE: I'm listening. I'm opening, taking notes, seeing, watching, communication skills, ideas, direction, vision, really its vision.

ROBERTS: Absent from the festivities, Rudy Giuliani, who, judging by this misspelled button, could use a bit more name recognition. A previous business commitment was the official reason the political watchers think his moderate policies wouldn't go over well here. What most everyone does agree on before 2008, there's another hurdle to jump.

SEN. BILL FRIST, (R) MAJORITY LEADER: November will be a challenge. And we all know that.

ROBERTS: Control of congress hangs in the balance in the upcoming midterm elections. President Bush's sagging poll numbers, the ports deal, Iraq, Katrina and other problems, had people like Lynn Cheramie on edge.

LYNN CHERAMIE, DELEGATE: It's a little worrisome, but we have time, we have time to right those things.

ROBERTS: Despite the anxiety though, you hear very little public criticism of President Bush. That is, until you talk to Dr. Mark Klein, a California psychiatrist running for the republican nomination.

DR. MARK KLEIN, PRESIDENTIAL HOPEFUL: I think this is actually the worst administration I've ever seen in my entire life.

ROBERTS: You know that's not an opinion we hear a lot around here.

KLEIN: Well, you know something? It really would be a good idea for the party to hear an alternative opinion.

ROBERTS (on-camera): Republicans are still publicly confident that they'll hang on to control of congress. But they're also deeply worried that the ports controversy has handed the democrats a very big clog, one that they'll use to merciless hammer the republicans. John Roberts, CNN, Memphis.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WHITFIELD: A would-be kidney donor is still on the run from the law. Straight ahead, we'll look at the people who have suffered because of this man's decision to flee.

A Kentucky teen is still waiting for a kidney transplant as a search for his fugitive father goes on. Byron Perkins skipped town after he was let out of jail temporarily to be tested as a possible donor for his son. Perkins is believed to have left with his girlfriend Lee Ann Howard and right now they are believed to be in Mexico. As CNN's Susan Candiotti reports, this case has had a serious impact on the families of both.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SUSAN CANDIOTTI, NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Sure his mom Lee Ann Howard has had run-ins with the law, but son Eric never thought she'd make anyone's most wanted list.

ERIC HOWARD, LEE HOWARD'S SON: I have just always thought of her as my mom. I never really thought of her as a runaway criminal, so this is sort of a weird way to think of her.

CANDIOTTI: His mom is now a federal fugitive, last seen in Mexico with boyfriend Byron Perkins, the runaway dad who skipped out on bond after promising a kidney to his ailing son. Jailhouse phone calls obtained by CNN show how Lee Ann Howard was love struck by her imprisoned boyfriend Byron Perkins. The couple talked about packing medicine and getting money and clothes. And, oh, yes, romance.

LEE ANN HOWARD: I love you, Byron.

BYRON PERKINS: Yeah.

HOWARD: Just don't sound like you do anymore.

PERKINS: I do.

CANDIOTTI: Howard's criminal record doesn't quite match her boyfriend's, but police say they are quite a pair.

SGT. GARY MARTIN, KENTUCKY STATE POLICE: Apparently these are some real -- they deserve each other. That's the way I can sum it up.

CANDIOTTI: Kentucky State Police sergeant Gary Martin led a team that arrested Howard in 2002 in a murder for hire plot to kill her ex- husband for insurance money. CNN exclusively obtained these images of Howard from a hidden camera tape shot by police. It helped convict her. The man she hired to kill her husband was an undercover cop. On tape, she tells him, "I want him taken care of."

MARTIN: It was a $200,000 double indemnity policy that if it looked like an accident that she would collect $200,000.

CANDIOTTI: Howard received a seven-year sentence on the murder for hire plot. Police say she did about six months and was released on probation. Now U.S. marshals say she's wanted for skipping out on state charges of robbery, drug trafficking and being a repeat felony offender. Eric, who now lives with his grandmother, says when he was younger, his mom's life in and out of jail threw him at first.

ERIC HOWARD: It was really sort of an eye-opener to what she was really like. But I still -- I was still living with her so I had no choice but to look at her as my mother. Now that I'm older and away from her and see all this on TV and all the news that's happened, it's -- I see her differently.

CANDIOTTI: Howard's 19-year-old son says Byron Perkins was nice to him and to his mom. But how Perkins is now treating his son Destine --

ERIC HOWARD: He needs a kidney and I can't believe Byron wouldn't do this and he wouldn't give his son a kidney.

CANDIOTTI: Perkins' own mother is mortified. What do you tell Destine about his father and what he did?

BARBARA BARR, BYRON PERKINS' MOTHER: I want Destine to know that I'm very sorry for what his dad did to him. And that we will find him a kidney some way or some how.

CANDIOTTI: Because of Destine, U.S. marshals are pushing their search for the couple in Mexico. Newspapers there are starting to spread the word.

RICK MCCUBBIN, U.S. MARSHAL: It's like Kentucky's version of a modern day Bonnie and Clyde. You know, it's a couple that are in love, they are on the run, they're committing crime, and who knows how that will end.

CANDIOTTI: A mother's son in Kentucky is making a plea.

ERIC HOWARD: Turn yourself in. Why did you do this? You know we need you to turn yourself in because we're going through a lot of crap because of you. Everyone is.

CANDIOTTI: Susan Candiotti, CNN, Louisville, Kentucky.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WHITFIELD: And coming up, you'll hear more of former U.N. ambassador Richard Holbrooke's comments to CNN about the death of former Serbian strong man Slobodan Milosevic. And our legal team will join us for their look at the contentious Enron trial.

REYNOLDS WOLF, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Hi everyone I'm meteorologist Reynolds Wolf with the cold and flu report. If you happen to be living along the eastern seaboard and if you have been sneezing and coughing and wheezing, well, that's not unheard of. It looks like conditions there are pretty widespread for the flu. If you look towards parts of the four corners especially into Utah and Arizona and New Mexico, things are somewhat better, just sporadic in that spot. All right folks, that's the very latest on your cold and flu report. Enjoy the rest of the weekend, if you can stop sneezing.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: Now in the news, an autopsy is planned at The Hague tomorrow on the body of Slobodan Milosevic. His widow wanted the autopsy performed in Moscow. The Hague refused. Milosevic was found dead today at The Hague where he was on trial for genocide in the former Yugoslavia. Milosevic's lawyer claims his client was poisoned.

A vigil is planned tonight in Chicago for former Iraq hostage Tom Fox. Iraqi police say Fox had been shot in the head and his body had signs of torture. Fox was a member of a Chicago-based Christian peacemakers team. Kidnappers still hold three other members of the anti-war group.

President Bush says he is shocked. Former White House Adviser Claude Allen faces theft charges. Maryland police say Allen swindled $5,000 in merchandise from two stores.

The FBI warns college basketball games during this March madness could be targets of terrorism. But the agency says it knows of no specific threats. The warning is based on an Internet posting encouraging terrorists to attack sporting events.

Spain remembers the victims of the 2004 Madrid train bombings. Two school children placed a wreath in a city park follow by five minute of silence; 191 people were killed when terrorist bombs exploded on four commuter trains.

Now more on the death of former Yugoslav leader Slobodan Milosevic. Richard Holbrooke was the U.S. ambassador to the United Nations who negotiated the treaty that ended The Bosnian war. He spoke with CNN this morning.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RICHARD HOLBROOKE, FORMER U.N. AMBASSADOR: The great news about Milosevic is his downfall. He lost four wars. Then in 2000, he lost power in a public uprising that was supported by the United States, covertly and quietly.

Everyone in Washington talks about regime change in Iraq and Iran and elsewhere. Well, the Clinton administration did it in Belgrade by supporting local pressure for democracy. A year later, the new government shipped him off to The Hague and he never saw a day of freedom again in his life.

The tribunal doesn't have a death penalty but a rough kind of justice has ended his life in a padded cell. After his crimes were exposed, and witnesses came forward, including his own associates. And that, I think, had a powerful effect.

I think that war crimes tribunal moved much too slowly. But listen, Betty, it's over. Milosevic is over. The problem is that there are still two terrible war criminals out there.

BETTY NGUYEN, CNN ANCHOR: Is it truly over because two others because Kradic and Mladic still on the run.

HOLBROOKE: I said Milosevic is over, but and Kradic and Mladic are still out there and the failure by NATO to capture them is a big disgrace.

NGUYEN: How do you expect the people in the Balkans to react to news that Slobodan Milosevic did indeed die today in a cell?

HOLBROOKE: I think that's going to depend on where they are from. But I just did a radio interview with Sarajevo, and I asked the interviewer that very question. And he said, they are going to be celebrating among the Muslims, although it's late Saturday night now and the word hasn't spread much yet.

Some of the Serbs may think he was a victim, but I would say to the Serbs around the world, and to people who feel that the Serbs were victims, it was Slobodan Milosevic and Radovan Kradic and General Melodic who betrayed you the Serb people. You were victimized by him. You were a great people. And you were destroyed by his ambition and all he really wanted, Betty, was to retain power. He didn't stand for anything.

He wasn't a real nationalist like Kostiniza, who really believes in nationalism. He was an opportunist who wanted power. He was very much like Marcos and Mobutu and Mugabe. It was about power and personal wealth, no true beliefs. (END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: And we'll have more of that interview with Ambassador Holbrooke later on this hour.

A federal judge said the case against admitted al Qaeda conspirator Zacarias Moussaoui could be on shaky ground. At issue, whether Moussaoui was legally obligated to tell the truth to FBI agents and incriminate himself in a terrorist plot. CNN's justice correspondent Kelli Arena is covering the trial in Alexandria, Virginia.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KELLI ARENA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It was here at this hotel in Egan, Minnesota, where Zacarias Moussaoui was taken into custody, just three weeks before the September 11th attacks. The FBI agent who arrested him testified that Moussaoui repeatedly lied during questioning, lies that the government contends helped the 9/11 plot go undetected.

Agent Harry Samit says Moussaoui told him he wanted to learn how to fly for enjoyment, for his own personal ego. Moussaoui told Samit the $32,000 he brought to the United States was given to him by family members and business associates, and he denied being a member of a terrorist group. Samit said he wasn't getting anywhere, that Moussaoui was evasive. He also said he told Moussaoui he believed he was part of a terror plot, and that if anything happened, he would be held accountable.

Samit and a flight instructor who testified said they were suspicious from the very beginning because, Moussaoui wanted to learn to fly a 747 without hardly any flying experience. It was those suspicions led these two Pan Am flight school employees in Minnesota to call the FBI.

TIM NELSON, FLIGHT SCHOOL MANAGER: I don't know what this guy is up to, but he's paying a lot of money for nothing he can use legitimately.

ARENA (on camera): The defense argues Moussaoui had no role in the 9/11 attacks, that he never had any contact with any of the hijackers and never knew any of the specifics. His attorneys are expected to aggressively cross-examine agent Samit on Monday.

Kelli Arena, CNN, Alexandria, Virginia.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WHITFIELD: Greed, deception and financial ruin. Emotional themes dominate the courtroom where Enron founder Ken Lay and former Chief Executive Jeffrey Skilling are on trial. But the prosecution's star witness Andy Fastow is the one in the hot seat.

Fastow's credibility is under fire. Skilling's attorneys suggest that evidence that Fastow produced to incriminate Lay and Skilling was fabricated to save his own hide. Lay and Skilling are accused of enriching themselves at the expense of investors and forcing the company into bankruptcy.

With their insight, attorneys Avery Friedman in Cleveland, and Richard Herman in New York. Good to see both of you, gentlemen.

It's become quite the soap opera on this case in trial.

Well, Richard, let's talk about Andy Fastow. He really has brought, I guess, a magnetic personality to this as a rather electrifying witness on the stand. But at the same time, his credibility is on the line.

RICHARD HERMAN, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, Fred, his credibility is everything. I mean, the government props him up, they promise him a reduced jailtime, if maybe no jailtime for him, if he provides substantial assistance to him and he tags Lay and Skilling.

Now the problem with this is this. This guy is testifying and admitted to crime after crime after crime and now he's saying I'm cleansed. I'm a new person and I'm here to tell the truth, to do the right thing. And in his testimony, he's doing everything he can to try to incriminate Lay and Skilling, but a jury is a smart jury and they're not just going to buy it because he said it.

There's going to have to be other forms of corroboration, otherwise, this testimony, as sensational as it is will be taken for what it is: the purchased testimony by a government witness.

WHITFIELD: And, Avery, I guess to help prove that or to corroborate his story, there is some, perhaps, real hard evidence that they are trying to bring into the court whether it's a document that shows there was some agreement or whether it's testimony that there was this kind of, you know, bear hug that helped seal agreements.

AVERY FRIEDMAN, CIVIL RIGHTS ATTORNEY: Right. The bear hug, Fredricka, was Andy's code word for the secret verbal agreement between him and Jeff Skilling. And the truth is, the jury is going to, obviously, have to rely on this testimony because there are very, very few documents.

Indeed, what Andy Fastow did this week is he looked to the -- his own documents that he prepared, which identified meeting after meeting with Jeff Skilling, and those meetings confirmed that Skilling knew what was going on here. So while the jury has to evaluate whether or not they are going to trust him, it is very powerful testimony nonetheless.

WHITFIELD: So I wonder, Avery, you know, what the jurors' point of view might be on Fastow. I mean, he doesn't necessarily win brownie points given that he allowed his wife to go serve jail time because initially he didn't want to tell the Feds his story and now he is saying, OK, I did do some things wrong.

But then the jurors know about some of all these, you know, things in the periphery. You have to wonder, you know, how much they want to believe him that he's just trying to save his own hide or whether the kind of information that he's providing is what, I guess, the prosecutors need in order to, you know, nail Skilling and Lay.

FRIEDMAN: Yes. Well, you know what? The truth is he's really a slimy guy. He talked in his testimony this week about losing a moral compass. Man, this guy was devoid of a moral compass. But the fact is, it's all the government has. And the fact is, also, that he actually cleans up very well and he articulates well.

He actually at one point, Fred, made the jury laugh because he was imitating the way Skilling conducted himself. So he does have credibility in terms of the way he's presenting himself. But the government is pretty short on the written documentation.

WHITFIELD: So, Richard, what is this going to boil down to?

HERMAN: It's going to boil down to whether -- don't forget, Fred. There's four more months of this trial. And this is a massive, massive fraud, and so the extent of his testimony, who knows four months from now if it's going to make that impact in a juror's minds.

But this is a dirty guy. I mean, he used his family. His wife went to jail because of him. I mean, this a bad, bad guy. And whether this is going to be enough to convince jurors to send away people for maybe 50 or 100 years in prison, are they going to be able to rely beyond a reasonable doubt on this guy's testimony?

I don't see it. But, there's going to be more and more cumulative evidence coming in and that's the kind of thing that sinks defendants in a case like this.

FRIEDMAN: Yes.

WHITFIELD: So, you know, I have to wonder, Avery, you know, since Fastow's finally said, OK, you know, guilty at least on certain charges, does that help spring his wife in the end? Since initially he said, you know, my hands are clean from this?

FRIEDMAN: Well, no. He can never have clean hands. The best he can wind up with is a reduced time in the penitentiary. I mean, he's already been sentenced. But the fact is that the important thing about Andy Fastow's testimony is this. Despite the fact he's really a piece of garbage is a brilliant, brilliant financial officer.

And he has been very powerful and very direct naming dates, places when Skilling and, to a minor degree Lay, were involved in knowing exactly what's going on, even up to the point of literally several weeks before bankruptcy where that testimony shows that Skilling and Lay knew very well what was going on here.

WHITFIELD: Yes, all right.

HERMAN: And, Fred, that's the reason why this testimony is not credible because you don't remember what you did last week. A guy like this, this guy Fastow gets up on the stand and testifies to meetings that took place on certain days over the last couple of years. It's incredible. It's rehearsed testimony. He's been rehearsed with the FBI over and over again. It has been rehearsed.

FRIEDMAN: It has been rehearsed, but it's true.

WHITFIELD: All right, you don't buy that he has a good memory. All right. Richard Herman, Avery Friedman, thanks so much. We're out of time. See you next weekend.

FRIEDMAN: Nice to see you. Take care.

HERMAN: OK, Fred. Have a good day.

WHITFIELD: One year later, we'll look back at the rampage that started in an Atlanta courthouse and changed some lives forever.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: Bullets ripped through a courtroom. The man on trial escapes, a chaotic manhunt follows. It unfolded one year ago today here in Atlanta. The courthouse tragedy is documented in tonight's all new CNN PRESENTS. CNN's Kyra Phillips has a preview of "26 HOURS OF TERROR."

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): It should have been a day like any other at the Fulton County Courthouse, business as usual. It would be anything but.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police are everywhere. There are sheriff deputies flying around. What we know is two people have been shot, one is a deputy, the other we believe may be a judge. This is just a chaotic scene with emergency vehicles flying everywhere.

PHILLIPS: March 11, 2005, 33-year-old Brian Nichols is transported from jail to the basement of the county courthouse. Nichols is on trial for a second time in as many weeks on charges of rape, burglary, false imprisonment.

ASH JOSHI, FMR. PROSECUTOR: I was quite confident Brian Nichols knew the trial was not going well. It was the forth quarter and we were up by a few touchdowns and I think he was concerned.

PHILLIPS: Faced with the very really prospect of spending the rest of his life in prison, police say Nichols takes matters into his own hands. At 8:49 a.m., he's escorted up to the holding cells on the eighth floor of the new courthouse. There he assaults and overpowers Deputy Cynthia Hall.

RICHARD MECUM, U.S. MARSHAL: He knocked her out. She had a key on her that unlocked the gun box, and so he unlocked the gun box, which is in the holding cell and took her gun out, also got her radio.

PHILLIPS: As Nichols makes his break, Judge Rowland Barnes is presiding over a civil matter on the eighth floor of the old courthouse. Court reporter Julie Brandau is next to him.

(on camera): By now, Brian Nichols, armed with Cynthia Hall's handgun, is calmly walking away from the holding cells, but instead of easily escaping, he's making his way across this sky bridge to the old courthouse.

MECUM: The judge was already on the bench with the court reporter and when Brian Nichols came through that door, he then shot the judge and the court reporter.

PHILLIPS (voice-over): Judge Barnes and Julie Brandau are killed instantly. Nichols then turns his attention to the prosecution table, but there were no prosecutors. Instead, he locks his eyes and his gun on Attorney Richard Robbins.

RICHARD ROBBINS, ATTORNEY: A lot of thoughts went through my mind. He just killed a judge, now he's going to kill the prosecutor, then he's going to kill everybody else. And I'm sitting at the prosecutor's table. So I decided at that point that I needed to get out of that courtroom, and I wasn't going to let him shoot me straight in the chest.

PHILLIPS: Judge Barnes' wife, Claudia, also works at the courthouse and remembers all too vividly the chaos that followed the shootings.

CLAUDIA BARNES, JUDGE BARNES' WIDOW: One of my good friends came and got me, and at that point I knew something was wrong with Rowland, so we went over to his courtroom, they had already taped it off.

PHILLIPS (on camera): They wouldn't even let you in the courtroom?

BARNES: Oh, no.

PHILLIPS (voice-over): In a matter of 12 short minutes, so many lives are changed forever at the Fulton County Courthouse, and it's about to get worse. Brian Nichols is on the loose.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WHITFIELD: And Kyra will have more from witnesses and family members tonight, as well as hostage Ashley Smith. Watch "26 HOURS OF TERROR" tonight and Sunday night at 7:00 p.m. Eastern, right here on CNN. We'll be right back.

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(WEATHER REPORT)

WHITFIELD: Wow, that's a long time. All right, Bonnie, thanks so much.

Well, straight ahead, it's "CNN PRESENTS: Pursuing The Perfect 10."

And coming up a little later, American players shooting hoops in Iran? We'll fill you in on some basketball diplomacy.

Plus, it's the most popular class at one of America's most prestigious universities. Getting happy at Harvard, coming up.

A check of the day's headlines is coming up next, and then it's "CNN PRESENTS."

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