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CNN Live Saturday
Jill Carroll Releases a Statement; A U.S. Helicopter Crashes Southwest of Baghdad; Mayor Bloomberg of New York Speaks Out About Illegal Immigration
Aired April 01, 2006 - 17:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ALLAN CHERNOFF, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Jill Carroll finally speaks her mind. The truth from the journalist who will finally be back in the United States tomorrow.
CHRIS HUNTINGTON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Thousands of immigrants march across the Brooklyn Bridge to make it clear that they just want a fair shot at the American dream.
RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wow! Oh, man. That hurts.
CAROL LIN, CNN ANCHOR: That's our Randi Kaye going through the shocking therapy that one program says is the key to helping troubled teens.
Hello and welcome to CNN LIVE SATURDAY.
I'm Carol Lin.
And here's what's making news right now.
Former hostage Jill Carroll says her kidnappers forced her to criticize President Bush and the U.S. military on a propaganda video. A live report is straight ahead.
A U.S. helicopter crashes southwest of Baghdad. The military says the status of that crew is unknown, but the next of kin are being notified.
Scott Peterson's family offers a reward for information exonerating him. They posted their $250,000 offer on a Web site. They want to get Peterson off of death row.
And some 250 miles above the planet Earth, a Russian spacecraft linked up today with the international space station. A Brazilian, a Russian and an American joined the crew that's been aboard the station since October. Marcos Pontes, the man with the flag -- you can barely see it there -- is the first Brazilian in space.
The coyote caught in Manhattan has died. Authorities say it stopped breathing during a tagging procedure before a planned release. Wildlife officials named him Hal after it led them on a chase through Central Park.
Freed hostage Jill Carroll is on the way home and she's defending -- or, actually, yes, a taped -- taped comments that she made critical of President Bush and the U.S. military. She says her captors forced her to say things she did not mean as a condition of her release.
CNN's Allan Chernoff is live in Boston with that story -- Allan.
CHERNOFF: Well, the staff here at the "Christian Science Monitor," of course, is delighted that Jill Carroll has now been released and also very pleased to get the answer to a question that so many people have been wondering about since Ms. Carroll was, in fact, released.
Statements that she made on two video interviews criticizing the United States, saying that she had been treated well, had not been threatened. Everybody was wondering here was she actually telling the truth?
Well, the answer -- an emphatic no.
In a statement just read only an hour ago by the editor of the "Christian Science Monitor," Ms. Carroll did say that, in fact, she had not been treated well, that she had, in fact, been forced to actually make some of those statements. And the editor of the "Christian Science Monitor" also said that Ms. Carroll, in her statement, called the people who abducted her and killed her interpreter murderers.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RICHARD BERGENHEIM, EDITOR, "CHRISTIAN SCIENCE MONITOR": "The people who kidnapped me and murdered Allan Enwiyah are criminals at best. They robbed Allan of his life and devastated his family. They put me, my family and friends, all those around the world who have prayed so fervently for my release, through a horrific experience. I was and remain deeply angry with the people who did this."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHERNOFF: She said that she also lied in an interview with the Iraqi Islamic Party, something that was actually done right after her release, that she was basically playing it safe by answering questions in that interview, saying that she had not been threatened and that she had been treated well. She said, in fact, she had been threatened many times. Essentially, Jill Carroll was being a smart cookie, saying what she needed to say in order to be released. In fact, her captors, she said, had told her that they would let her go if she did an interview. And, essentially, she said, it turned out to be a propaganda video. But she knew what to say.
She is expected back here in Boston tomorrow -- Sophia.
LIN: Allan, it's Carol Lin.
And we have to wonder what any of us would do in that situation, if we had a gun to our heads and the promise of a release.
Do we know more about the factors that went into her release?
The "Christian Science Monitor" has vehemently denied that they paid any kind of ransom or had anything to do with it.
But do they have any theories?
CHERNOFF: They don't know all the details, but they certainly did work very hard -- pardon me, Carol -- but they certainly were working very, very hard on this. They said, the editor told me that every single day they were at it, talking with representatives of the United States government, the Iraqi government, governments all over the world, the editor of the "Monitor," saying that this has really been pretty much of an obsession here. That's -- he said that's the only thing that we've been dealing with.
So they are just so pleased to have her released.
By the way, the "Monitor" also, they say that they hired her a week after she was kidnapped. So she actually is now a full-time staffer at the "Christian Science Monitor," no longer a freelancer.
LIN: Well, that's the least they could do. But I'm sure that it'll be a bit before she gets back to work.
We'll see what happens and we're looking forward to hearing from her directly.
Allan, thank you.
Now, over in New Orleans, it's about getting to the people who can't come home. About 2,000 people marched through New Orleans today. The city holds an election later this month. And marchers want polling places set up outside the city and even outside the state.
CNN's Sean Callebs standing by with more on this -- Sean, I thought the Justice Department had already decided that polling places were going to be limited to the State of Louisiana.
SEAN CALLEBS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: They have. And there's been legal challenges to this and so far the number of civic and civil rights leaders who have filed legal challenges have all been rebuffed.
Right now, everything is set for that April 22nd march, but -- I mean April 22nd election.
But without question today, hundreds of people turning out under what turned out to be hot, hazy conditions for this demonstration. And it really started out as more of a scrum than a march. There you see the Reverend Al Sharpton and the Reverend Jesse Jackson, two of the organizers. They actually marched from the City of New Orleans across a bridge spinning the Mississippi River, several miles to the nearby town of Gretna.
Basically what they say is the upcoming election violates the federal Voting Rights Act and so they want this election stopped.
But a number of demonstrators taking part in this were simply thrilled with all of the attention, the big turnout today. They say they are trying to get a message out to people across the country.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We want to make a difference and that they care. They want to make a change in this world.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't think we're as apathetic as people think and I think Katrina has really motivated us. Really, because it's do or die.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CALLEBS: And among those people marching, the current mayor, Ray Nagin, who is one of, get this, 24 candidates. That's right, 24 candidates running for mayor of the city. He says he supports what the civil rights leaders are doing, but he is moving forward as though the election will be held in three weeks.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MAYOR RAY NAGIN, NEW ORLEANS: This is incredible. You know, with the amount of people that are here, I think this shocked some people. They didn't think it was going to be as well organized and as many people participating. This is about the right to vote and everybody should have equal access, easy access, and that's what I'm here supporting.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CALLEBS: Now, basically what the legal challenge says is the secretary of state doesn't have a voting list, all the people registered to vote. And they say that is a violation.
And, Carol, you touched upon some of the other things, the fact that hundreds of thousands of people just fanned out across the country, many in Houston and many in Atlanta. And they say there's a lot of concern about getting absentee ballots for those people. That's why they want these satellite polling places. But apparently it's not going to happen, at least at this point -- Carol.
LIN: All right, you've got candidates going across three different states. It's -- I don't think it's ever been seen before.
Sean, thank you.
CALLEBS: Yes, it really is a national...
LIN: Well, we've seen it around the country in recent days. Today, the big protest was in New York. Thousands of marchers hit the streets to oppose a crack down on illegal immigrants. In the last week, demonstrators have marched through cities like Los Angeles and San Diego, as well as places like Tucson, Las Vegas and El Paso.
CNN's Chris Huntington is coverage the big march in New York -- Chris, how did it go? CHRIS HUNTINGTON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Carroll, as most people know, New York City is home to millions of immigrants from all over the world and those who took to the streets today and marched from Brooklyn over to lower Manhattan really wanted to make one central point -- that they are not criminals and what they really want is a fair and fast process to legal status.
(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)
SELENE GONZALEZ, PROTEST ORGANIZER: This is lovely. This is all my people! Whoo!
HUNTINGTON (voice-over): Selene Gonzalez helped organize this immigration rally in New York City.
GONZALEZ: We're all going over here. Come on.
HUNTINGTON: Gonzalez came to the United States legally from Nicaragua with her parents more than 20 years ago. She says she is renewing her green card and knows exactly how difficult it is to secure legal immigration status. She also knows the stigma attached to those who are undocumented.
GONZALEZ: We are not criminals. We are here, hard workers. We're not terrorists. We're here to try and make this country a better country. We're not here to try and steal anybody's jobs or anything like that.
HUNTINGTON (on camera): These immigrants are marching for one simple reason -- they've come to this country to earn their small part of the American dream. They want to work, raise their families and play by the rules, rules that they say right now are stacked against them.
(voice-over): And the rules could soon stack even higher. Many of the estimated 3,000 to 5,000 mostly Latino marchers were protesting pending legislation that would make it a felony to hire or even house an illegal alien. If that bill becomes law, Selene would be a criminal. For the last four years, she has had an undocumented nanny taking care of her 5-year-old daughter.
(on camera): You're a symbol of what some people say is broken about the process. You're employing somebody who is undocumented. She's trying to get papers.
But how does that make you feel? You're all caught up in it right now.
GONZALEZ: Yes, well, I mean, like I feel fine. I mean I feel great because I'm helping her. It's not like I'm promoting the fact for her to stay here illegally. I'm helping her to try and obtain her documentation, to make sure that she's entitled to the same rights as other workers here.
HUNTINGTON (voice-over): Selene and her parents are no strangers to political struggle. They fled the Nicaraguan Sandinistas in the late '70s for a better life in the United States and they did it by the book.
GONZALEZ: They were running away from a country where it was nothing but chaos. So rather than starting off in a chaotic -- on a chaotic note, they decided to do everything the legal way and avoid anything, you know, any kind of problems.
HUNTINGTON: So, Selene marches for immigration reform, not out of defiance, she says, but in defense of the fundamental American principle of fairness.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
HUNTINGTON: Now, Selene and many of the other marchers we spoke to today told us that they do not favor President Bush's proposal for a guest worker policy. They do favor amnesty for those who are already here in the country and playing by the rules. And they do not favor any quotas, country by country quotas.
So that's a tall order, Carol. But, indeed, these people -- and we saw many, many families out there, young babies, moms and dads, they really just want to -- to feel at peace with the country that they now call home.
LIN: Chris, thank you.
Once again, we are going to go in depth on the issue of immigration.
Today, I'm going to be focusing on what would happen if all 11 million undocumented immigrants went home.
In 30 minutes, national correspondent John King is also going to show us.
And at 50 minutes past the hour, you'll meet an immigrant family who came to the U.S. with almost nothing, but today they are living the American dream.
At 6:00 Eastern, it's a special edition of "LOU DOBBS TONIGHT." Lou reports on the battle over immigration from Mexico.
In the meantime, right here at home, spring storms in the Midwest. The National Weather Service now confirms a tornado touched down near Indianapolis last night. At least 20 homes were damaged in Indiana's Shelby County. And you can take a look at the damage there.
Now, this, actually, you're looking at Hawaii. Parts of Oahu have flooded again. Heavy rains pounded the island yesterday. For the second time in a week, floodwaters overwhelmed the sewage treatment plant, sending wastewater into the Pacific Ocean.
All right, with all that, it's a great time to go to Galen Crader at the CNN Weather Center -- Galen, where are you going to start, in the Midwest?
GALEN CRADER, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Well, we're probably going to start in the Plains, where we have more severe weather shaping up for us, Carol.
Thank you very much.
Take a look at it. There's our cold front, and it's a big one. And it is beginning its assault on the Southern and Central Plains here, where we have some new watch boxes to report to you right now.
One is a severe thunderstorm watch moving in the general direction of Little Rock. It covers most of western Arkansas. And a tornado watch box that now is covering most of the Oklahoma and Texas Panhandles and is moving in the general direction of Oklahoma City.
This is where we expect that the most severe weather could happen today, certainly some hail, high winds, a lot of rain and possibly some tornadoes. And this is the area that we expect will be most affected.
Dallas, Kansas City and Oklahoma City all lie within the realm of a moderate risk of severe weather here, but we're expecting the tornadoes to really be concentrated through this area.
Tomorrow, we're looking for that low pressure center to slip on up into Nebraska and over Kansas here, and that's -- it will take the cold front with it. And that's where the risk of severe weather tomorrow will lie. And the same pattern really is in place with that southerly flow of moisture out of the Gulf.
But high pressure will continue to dominate the East Coast and temperatures will actually be fairly spring like in most areas, except southern California. Sixty-three in Los Angeles is the high -- Carol.
LIN: It looks like heaven.
CRADER: Not very warm.
LIN: Yes.
Thanks very much, Galen.
CRADER: You bet.
LIN: Well, another problem here in this country, teens on drugs in America. We've got the numbers every parent will want to know.
Backtracking in Blackburn -- what Condoleezza Rice is saying today about mistakes made in Iraq.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What would happen to the economy here?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, the economy would collapse because there's whole industries that couldn't survive.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LIN: A world without immigrant workers. I'll speak with an American business owner whose dream depends on Mexican workers.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LIN: Now for a quick check of the headlines making news across America.
The former president of Liberia, Charles Taylor, is facing war crimes in Sierra Leone and his son was picked up in Miami. Charles Emmanuel is charged with making false statements on a passport application.
The mental status of a Tennessee pastor's wife is being evaluated this weekend. Mary Winkler is accused of allegedly shooting her husband in the back. Her defense team says she's pretty fragile right now. Psychologists are trying to determine if she understands the consequences of her actions.
Late funny man Chris Farley is returning to the streets of Los Angeles. Farley's family has approved the use of his picture in a new ad campaign for treating drug an alcohol addiction. This is the first billboard, which reads: "It Wasn't All His Fault." Farley died eight years ago of a drug overdose.
And it's the kind of statistic politicians love to brag about. The Bush administration is touting a drop in illegal drug use by teens. But while this number paints a rosy picture, critics say abusers have moved on to a new drug.
Here's our Gary Nurenberg.
(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)
GARY NURENBERG, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): When she was 14, the black eye shadow wasn't the darkest part of Adrienne Blankenship's life.
ADRIENNE BLANKENSHIP, RECOVERING DRUG USER: I just did a whole lot of crack and at the end of the night, when it was all gone, I was just like, my body was just like, you know, I can't go on unless I have another hit. I can't go on unless I have another hit. I just need one more.
NURENBERG: She started abusing drugs at 12.
BLANKENSHIP: It was more important for me to skip class and go to somebody's house and get high.
NURENBERG: Adrienne is 19 now, says she hasn't done drugs for three years.
KEN COLLINS, DRUG POLICY ALLIANCE: Young people in America are turning away from illegal drugs.
NURENBERG: The president's Office of National Drug Control Policy, ONDCP, cites a 30-year-old ongoing study of eighth, tenth and twelfth graders by the University of Michigan called "Monitoring the Future" and concludes illegal teen drug use dropped 19 percent between 2001 and 2005.
COLLINS: This was a sea change in American youth.
NURENBERG: Although cocaine use is essentially unchanged, the ONDCP's David Murray says some forms of drug abuse are down dramatically.
DAVID MURRAY, OFFICE OF NATIONAL DRUG CONTROL POLICY: Remember MDMA Ecstasy? The rising epidemic? The great threat of the club scene? It's down. It's down 63 percent.
NURENBERG: Defying the trend, the study says abuse of prescription drugs is up, particularly painkillers. The study says a quarter of tenth graders and 45 percent of twelfth graders have used marijuana but says current use is down more than 20 percent.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP FROM ONDCP COMMERCIAL)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just tell your little brother you forgot to pick him up because you were getting stoned.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NURENBERG: The ONDCP says much of the credit for declining use goes to its media campaign. Its critics disagree.
KEN COLLINS, DEPUTY DIRECTOR, DRUG POLICY ALLIANCE: The media campaign is a propaganda tool paid for by tax dollars.
NURENBERG: A deputy director of the Drug Policy Alliance, Ken Collins says that government spends too much money enforcing drug laws.
COLLINS: The office should actually be revamped to move more toward a treatment scenario and a proper education scenario.
NURENBERG: Even as he criticizes administration policy, Collins doesn't dispute the numbers showing teen drug use declining, a trend personified by Adrienne, college student, drug-free.
Gary Nurenberg, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
LIN: Drug abuse isn't the only problem facing America's teens.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My daughter was punching herself constantly like that in her eyes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I thank god for the GED.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She wouldn't be alive today.
(END VIDEO CLIP) LIN: Treating violently out of control kids -- we're going to show you the therapy that tries to shock kids straight.
And can a basketball team ease the pain of Hurricane Katrina? How the final four is finally giving the Gulf something to smile about.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LIN: Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice is clarifying remarks she made about the war in Iraq. She's in Britain today, meeting with her counterpart, British Foreign Secretary Jack Straw. Now, Rice said her comments yesterday that the United States has possibly made thousands of tactical mistakes in Iraq, well, that should not be taken literally, she's saying.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CONDOLEEZZA RICE, SECRETARY OF STATE: I meant it figuratively, not literally, all right? Let me be very clear about that. I wasn't sitting around counting. I also said a little later on that I've done this a thousand times. That probably was also figurative.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LIN: Well, about 300 protesters greeted Rice outside the town hall in Straw's hometown of Blackburn. She and Straw attended a multi-faith service at Blackburn Cathedral and met with the city's Muslim leaders.
The Army has ordered its soldiers to stop wearing commercially available body armor and stick with standard issue military vests. In laying down the law, the military singled out a California company it says sold substandard vests to U.S. troops.
Here's Jamie McIntyre.
(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)
JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SENIOR PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In company-sponsored demonstrations like this one, Pinnacle Armor of Fresno, California touts its Dragon Skin vest as state-of-the-art protection for police and military alike. But the Army has issued what it calls a safety of use message, banning the vest and other commercial body armor from the battlefield, warning: "danger -- death or serious injury could result if soldiers use the over the counter vest instead of their standard issue body armor."
MAJ. GEN. JEFFREY SORENSON, ARMY ACQUISITION DEPUTY: The fact of the matter is they have not met the Army standards to date.
MCINTYRE: The Army says while there was a body armor shortage for about a year right after the invasion of Iraq, it insists since early 2004, every soldier in both Iraq and Afghanistan have been issued body armor. And as of early this year, all soldiers have access to improved armor, including shoulder pads and side protection. Some soldiers say they prefer the more comfortable design of the Dragon Skin vest. But the Army says it's gone to a lot of expense getting the best protection for its troops and it doesn't want them wearing anything less.
SORENSON: That's just the facts of life. I mean, you can meet the Army standard, we'll field. You can't meet, we don't field.
MCINTYRE: The Army says it will pay for soldiers to ship the substandard vests home, but not for the vests themselves, unless the soldiers qualify under a law passed by Congress to reimburse troops for necessary equipment.
(on camera): Contacted by CNN, Murray Neal, the CEO of Pinnacle Armor, accused General Sorenson of what he called "a boldfaced lie," insisting the Army has documentation showing the Dragon Skin vests exceed Army requirements. He insists a side by side test with the Army vest and his vest would show that his is the one without the bullet holes. The Army says it's still waiting for 30 vests from the company for testing.
Jamie McIntyre, CNN, the Pentagon.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
LIN: More on another big story, the economics of immigration reform. Coming up in just three minutes, we'll break through all the political rhetoric and show you the hard numbers of America's immigrant workforce.
And then I'm going to speak with one business owner who says like it or not, he depends on them.
Then, at 5:40 Eastern, the controversial therapy that uses an electrical shock to get out of control teens back in line.
And at 6:00 Eastern, Lou Dobbs heads south of the border for an hour long in depth look at the immigration debate. Hear what he says needs to be done to secure America's borders.
(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)
DANIEL SIEBERG, CNN TECHNOLOGY CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): If the sound of the alarm clock makes you want to crawl further under the covers rather than actually wake up, there might be a solution. It's called Sleeptracker.
This wristwatch monitors sleep patterns by recording the number of times a person is almost awake during the night. Then the watch can be programmed to wake you up at the best time.
LEE LOREE, PARTNER, INNOVATIVE SLEEP SOLUTIONS: sbb solns:v be pgmd lmost awake during t f t of lemonade. para pagal legal means para Sleeptracker looks for light stages of sleep to make it easier to progress from actually being asleep to being awake, rather than a normal alarm clock. SIEBERG: It works like this. First, set the two bed time so that Sleeptracker knows when to start recording. Next, set the alarm time. Then, you'd set a window of time before the actual alarm time.
LOREE: If Sleeptracker senses an almost awake moment within that window of time, it will go off early.
SIEBERG: But even if the alarm does go off early, Loree says he'll still feel more awake than if the alarm went off at the later set time.
LOREE: Sleeptracker is ideal for anyone that wants effectively a competitive edge. It allows you to get up in the morning and go to the gym feeling better.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LIN: Still no word on the status of the crew aboard a U.S. military helicopter that went down eight hours ago, southwest of Baghdad. The chopper was apparently on combat patrol when it crashed.
Freed American hostage Jill Carroll touchdown in Germany this morning and is set to arrive in Boston tomorrow. Just in the last hour, a statement released by Carol called her kidnappers criminals, who threaten her repeatedly, and that she was forced to make a propaganda video before she was released.
Jesse Jackson joined hundreds of protesters in downtown New Orleans today. At issue? The voting right thousands of displaced city residents after Hurricane Katrina. Minority groups want to delay upcoming mayoral elections scheduled three weeks from today.
And from the Big Apple, a huge turnout of protesters opposing proposed tougher laws on illegal immigration. Marchers say they simply want to take part in the American dream.
One possible solution to America's immigration problem is to expel everyone that's in the country illegally. It's a drastic and highly unlikely scenario, but CNN's John King asks New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg the hypothetical question, what if?
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JOHN KING, CNN SR. CORRESPONDENT (voice over): The Seven Line through Queens weaves through more than 300 years of immigrant history, legal and illegal. A lesson Mayor Michael Bloomberg believes those in Washington calling for a crackdown.
MAYOR MICHAEL BLOOMBERG, NEW YORK: We're not going to deport 12 million people. So let's stop this fiction. Let's give them permanent status.
KING: Over coffee in an Indian diner, pondering the what if. What would a New York City and America would look like if illegal immigrants were forced out of shadows and forced to leave?
(On camera): What would happen to the economy here?
BLOOMBERG: Well the economy would collapse, because there are whole industries that couldn't survive. And even if Americans were willing to take those jobs, would take a long time before they could.
KING (voice over): Take illegal day laborers out of the picture and the impact would be on the construction industry.
MOISES, IMMIGRANT (through translator): I've just arrived, barely four months ago. We all deserve an opportunity. We all deserve a chance to work because it is hard in our countries.
KING: Overall, illegal immigrants make up 5 percent the U.S. workforce, but they hold 24 percent the jobs in farming; 17 percent in the cleaning sector and 14 percent in construction; and 12 percent in food preparation.
Edwin came illegally from China 17 years ago. Works as a cook.
(On camera): Are you ever afraid? That police or somebody will try to check your papers or for some reason throw you out of the country?
EDIWIN, IMMIGRANT (through translator): This is such a country of opportunity, I'm willing to stay and take the risk because from day it day, life is pretty good here.
KING (Voice over): Those advocating a crackdown say secure the borders first, then deal with the 12 million or so illegals already here.
MARK KRIKORIAN, CENTER FOR IMMIGRATION STUDIES: We actually calculate that over a period of five years you could probably cut it in half, if you put your mind to it. And I'm not talking machine guns and land mines, I'm talking normal law enforcement.
KING: Finding them would be a nationwide challenge. An estimated 12 million in all; 3 million in California; 1.5 million in Texas.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Florida, Illinois, New York. But nowadays, Arizona, North Carolina, Georgia, so they've been spreading out around the country.
KING: Shamila is the face of another dilemma if Congress wanted any major crackdown. She has been here illegally for 20 years. Her nine-year-old son was born here, so he's a U.S. Citizen.
SHAMILA, IMMIGRANT: I am afraid when I go outside that, God forbid, for some reason I'm pulled over or something like that happens and I'm sent back, or be even separated from my son.
KRIKORIAN: It's not the job of the American people to make up for the mistakes and bad decisions of these illegal alien parents.
KING: The mayor calls such talk nonsense.
BLOOMBERG: These people are going to be here permanently let's recognize it and get on with it. And I just don't have a lot of patience listen to people that say, it shouldn't be. Maybe it shouldn't be. You have a right to that opinion, but it is.
KING: A half million illegal immigrants blended to this city 170 languages, a place the mayor says should serve as an example for those he believes are trying to ignore both history and economic reality. John King, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LIN: And what if you have a business that depends on immigrant labor? That's why we invited Tom Demaline to talk with us. He has a business called Willoway Nurseries, that really depends on immigrant labor.
Good afternoon, Mr. Demaline.
TOM DEMALINE, WILLOWAY NURSERIRES: How you doing?
LIN: Good to talk to you. You're out there in Cleveland, Ohio. You have this terrific business, the dream of your family. You hire guest workers, right? They are actually here legally, so far as you know?
DEMALINE: Correct. Right.
LIN: But why do you hire Mexicans and not Americans?
DAMEALINE: Well part the H2A program that we go through, it requires us to source American people that want to work here, work are documented people, or people that live in that area. And we bring in about a hundred local people each year in the job search, and we give them opportunities to get started in the nursery business.
Some work for us for a day, some work for a week, some work for a month and --
LIN: But backbone of your work force is Mexican labor, right?
DEMALINE: Correct. We need about 350 people on a seasonal basis to start at the beginning of the season, and stay with us throughout the entire year to get our product to market.
LIN: So how will you characterize how person this labor force is to you?
DEMALINE: Well, it's very important, because it's -- we need them in a timely manner, we need them to be able to come to work. And agricultural business is seasonal. And it's also hard work. Working in the wet, and cold and the spring, the hot, and the heat in the summer, and it's tough work.
LIN: And aren't Americans willing to do that work? DEMALINE: Generally, most people just aren't willing to do it. They would rather may be work in a food industry, or other areas like that, but we're not raising people anymore to come out and pick tomatoes and grow trees work on lawn maintenance.
LIN: But in your particular business, if you know, under some scenarios that you're hearing in public, if all the undocumented workers were rounded up and sent back to their native countries, would that affect you?
DEMALINE: Well it would affect our industry, because you know, we supply a lot of landscape contractors and other nurseries, and if they lose their workers, even though we would have a legal workforce, it's going to affect the whole economy. If there's nobody to put the plants on the ground, we're going to lose out.
Currently, agriculture supports about 3.5 jobs for each worker that we employ. Well, if you take half of workers that are in agriculture, which would be about 750,000 people, in that times the 3.5 people, like 2.6 million people that are tax paying American citizens that could lose their jobs.
LIN: And also potentially the price of produce go up?
DEMALINE: Yes. The price of everything's going to go up we have -- if simple price and demand. If there are less workers, going to have to pay more for labor to get the products picked, and growing and to market.
LIN: And even worse if businesses end up going overseas? Is that a scenario? Because by some pie in the sky scenarios is well if you get rid of all the undocumented workers, more Americans would have jobs. But that doesn't necessarily -- that isn't necessarily the outcome.
DEMALINE: No, no. If we have to shove stuff offshore, it's going to -- it's two or three problems there. And we've done that with so many industries so far, with a lot of manufacturing has been moved offshore. Some of the computer workers have been move offshore. If we move food source offshore we're in risk in many different ways.
One, we're at risk of embargoes or Third World countries holding us hostage and not having any food, similar to the problems we're having with oil right now. The second is in offshore of our food products is the safety, health and safety issues. Most countries don't have this stringent EPA regulations for food safety and pesticide controls.
LIN: I hear you. Tom Demaline, what you're saying grow in the USA and that may very depend on immigrant labor.
DEMALINE: It does depend on immigrant labor to grow a good product.
LIN: That's an education. Thank you very much, Tom Demaline, appreciate.
DEMALINE: Thank you.
LIN: Well, at the top the hour, a special edition of "Lou Dobbs" titled "Broken Borders". Lou reports from Cancun, Mexico, following the North American Summit that just wrapped up there.
And tomorrow, on "Late Edition" with Wolf Blitzer. Wolf is going to talk with the Mexican President Vicente Fox. That's tomorrow morning, 11:00 a.m. Eastern, right here on CNN>
Barbaric treatment, or a teaching tool for the straight and narrow. Up next, shock therapy for kids and why some parent are defending it.
And later, living the American dream through eyes of a Mexican immigrant.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LIN: A Massachusetts program for troubled teens is causing controversy. It uses electric shock therapy to treat teenagers with behavioral problems. The treatment is carried out with written consent from the parents. But some say they had no idea what they were getting their kids into. Here's our Randi Kaye.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Antwone Nicholson's school looks more like Disneyland than a place for kids with special needs. There are pinball machines and cartoon characters, wax figures and artwork punctuated with cornflower blues and vivid pinks. Each student has a computer, healthy food, plush quarters, heavy supervision and constant attention.
Why then would Antwone's mother, Evelyn Nicholson be fighting like mad to get him out of this place?
EVELYN NICHOLSON, ANTWONE'S MOTHER: He would call me up crying, say, you have to get me out of here. I can't take this.
KAYE: Because along with the perks at this center for troubled children come the punishments.
The Judge Rottenberg Center claims to be the only one in country using electroshock aversion therapy. They call the graduated electronic decelerator, the GED. Half of their students go to school each day tethered to electrodes housed in a fanny pack.
(On camera): Really bad pain? On a scale of 1 to 10, what would you say? Ten is really bad.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Like seven.
KAYE (voice over): It's a therapy almost as old as electricity itself. Banned as barbaric at a far higher voltage, illegal in some state. To Evelyn Nicholson it is "One Flew over the Cuckoo's Nest" for kids. Child psychologist, David Fassler.
DR. DAVID FASSLER, CHILD PSYCHIATRIST: This is clearly an intervention which is out of the mainstream. Personally, I worry about the ramifications and the implications, long-term for the kids.
KAYE: Yet Evelyn signed a legal consent form that allowed them to strap electrodes on Antwone that deliver 65 volts of electricity by remote control. He got them one at a time. Each time he cussed, hit, threatened, or frightened someone.
(On camera): You still signed it.
NICHOLSON: Yeah.
KAYE: How come?
NICHOLSON: Because that was -- they said that was the only place they have for Antwone.
KAYE (voice over): Now she's suing her New York School district for sending Antwone out of state so they could, in her words, torture and abuse him for engaging in aggressive, unfocused behavior.
Dr. Matthew Israel has been under fire from parents and doctors and psychiatrists since he invented the electric shock device 16 years ago. Dr. Israel calls it behavioral skin shock, a bee sting, a prick, an electric spanking. Nothing like the convulsion shock treatments demonized in films.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Children who otherwise might blind themselves have been able to stop that behavior and become -- in much more normal life.
KAYE: Dr. Israel says he has treated 226 students on the GED. The 24/7 program costs taxpayers $213,000 per child each year.
KAYE (on camera): If you hadn't come here, where would you be here today?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I would be dead or in a hospital doped up on Thorzine.
KAYE: The key to his credible, he says, are students and parent. Inside his own colorful headquarter, Dr. Israel refused to speak to CNN without them and his lawyers, staff, cameras and recording devices.
KAYE: Whether you hear people or critics of this therapy saw this like child, this is inhumane? This is torture?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's not.
KAYE: Does it make you all very angry?
GROUP ANSWERS: Yes. KAYE: These parents say their kids are worst of the worst. Head bangers and biters, obsessive compulsive, out of control, a danger to themselves and others. That the GED, which only administered with court and parental approval, saved their children's lives.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My daughter was punching herself constantly, like that, in her eyes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I thank God for the GED.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She wouldn't be alive today.
KAYE: According to his medical records, Antwone could be one scary kid.
He stole things, hit people, tried to sexually assault a girl.
NICHOLSON: He's 17, but he's really in between the age of a four and five year old child. And he really can't function, he can't think. He's really constantly repeating himself.
KAYE: When Antwone first arrived at the center, Dr. Israel says he acted out constantly. Mouthing off got him a reprimand, physical aggression was punished with a zap. Dr. Israel says after many zaps that number drops to near zero.
(On camera): Your mom told us that you told her that it was very painful. Is that true?
ANTWONE: I don't know. It was painful.
KAYE: Dr. Israel says his treatment is also about rewards. Kids who behave well get treats and games. Bad behavior brings a single two second skin shock.
(On camera): A student can wear up to five electrodes strapped to their arms and legs. I strapped one here to my arm, just to see how powerful shock is. It's delivered with a remote control.
Ouch. Oh man. That hurts.
(Voice over): What long-term harm or good prolong treatment would have on a mentally handicapped teenager, like Antwone is anyone's guess. His mother has ordered the treatment stopped. Randi Kaye, CNN, Canton, Massachusetts.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LIN: I want to tell you Randi's just fine.
All right, as the battle over immigration takes shape across the country, we'll take a look at one man who crossed the border and share the American dream with a generation.
I'm Larry Smith with the final four in Indianapolis. About 20 minute away from tipoff. And coming up, we'll talk about one best stories of the team's coming into these games. And a team that maybe more prepared than rest. That's coming up on CNN LIVE SATURDAY.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LIN: You've seen protest, you've heard the political debate. But most of us will never really know how hard it is to arrive in a country with no money or education or language skills. But as we all know, America is full of immigrant success stories. CNN's Kareen Wynter has one of them.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KAREEN WYNTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (on camera): This is your family?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Whole family.
WYNTER (voice over): Snapshot of Salvador Salazar's life's work, which began more than two decades ago as an illegal immigrant, when he sneaked across the Mexico border into the U.S. to chase the American dream.
SALVADOR SALAZAR, IMMIGRANT (through translator): I knew our children's future was going to be better in the United States, because this is a country where dreams come true.
WYNTER: With no money, no knowledge of English, just a first- grade education, Salazar somehow found work in the trenches of society. He sent money and clothing home to his wife and four children. Who would eventually join him in the U.S.
HUGO SALAZAR, SON: My father did the type of jobs that most people wouldn't want to do from being, picking in fields, to being a custodian, to working on the cannery, some pretty harsh conditions.
WYNTER: Salazar later legalized his residency under an amnesty program during Reagan administration. His family moved to California from Central Mexico. The children automatically became American citizens. A goal Salazar's wife, Amalia also wanted to reach.
SALVADOR SALAZAR, JR., SON: Even though it was difficult, we were always kind of seeing the light at the end the tunnel.
WYNTER: The Salazar children didn't have much, except a shot at a free education. They seized the opportunity Salvador Jr. is now an attorney. Hugo, a college senior about to begin grad school. Their siblings are just as successful.
H. SALVADOR: When a person coming from the lowest socio-economic standing have an opportunity to do so? Only in the United States.
WYNTER: Amalia Salazar reached her own milestone, she just earned her citizenship.
AMALIA SALAZAR, IMMIGRANT, (through translator): I wanted them to ask me about everything I had studied. I was so happy that day. H. SALAZAR: Obviously a woman who is 63 years old is willing to take exams at end of her life, just to become a citizen, it just highlights how much desire that she has for this country.
WYNTER: The Salazars have grown to love their adopted country and they think a new generation of immigrants, illegal or not, should have a chance to make a life here.
(On camera): The sheer number of people who turned out, what goes through your behind look at something like this?
H. SALAZAR: Well, this past Saturday, I was actually there. They're not criminals. They're not terrorists. They're people who clean your carpet, who mow your lawn, who wash your car, or what take care of your kids. And I mean, this demonstrates, there is -- something needs to be done.
WYNTER (voice over): Kareen Wynter, CNN, Los Angeles.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LIN: Down on the Louisiana Bayou, the dream is a little different. LSU's basketball team is in the final four. And for folks still reeling from Hurricane Katrina, any diversion is welcome. Especially when a possible national championship is concerned. CNN's Larry Smith explains.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LARRY SMITH, CNN SPORTS CORRESPONDENT (voice over): It is called Louisiana State University. That means any win by LSU's Tigers usually brings smiles across the entire state. But since Hurricane Katrina hit, smiles have been tough to come by in Louisiana.
CHRISTY BRASHER, ETHEL, LOUISIANA: It means a lot. I mean, our state's been through a bunch. I mean, but to see that the men and women both get to the final four is awesome.
SMITH: Seven months after Katrina, Baton Rouge is still housing New Orleans residents temporarily, but they're Tigers fans permanently, especially after seeing both LSU women's and men's basketball teams advance to the final four.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Three seconds left. Tucker let him shoot it, he does, and it's no good! Tigers are going to the final four!
JOHN BRADY, LSU HEAD COACH: What we're doing has given them some pride, an escape, a motivation. Whatever we're doing, we have helped those that have been in a difficult situation, and we're humbled by that.
DARREL MITCHELL, LSU GUARD: We know if we can give them two hours, three hours out of day, to get them eyes off of all of that, and they can watch us be successful, I think it's a good thing for them. SMITH: Although none of the Tigers players are from New Orleans, they all witnessed the tragedy Katrina wrought firsthand. For eight days in September, their home court was turned into a hospital. The players delivered supplies and set up shelters. Star center Glen Davis held an IV bag during an emergency surgery.
GLEN DAVIS, LSU FORWARD: I've seen a lot of things from victims, patients, hospital patients, surgeons performing, you know, performing surgery on a patient. You know, a lot of things that you'll never forget.
BRADY: Our players did whatever they need to do to help in a critical situation and I think that, all of that affected them in a way that made them closer.
SMITH: The Tigers have just one senior on their squad. But no team has had their type of experience, that allows them the wisdom to know there is nothing final about the final four. Not when you've seen what they have.
GARRETT TEMPLE, LSU GUARD: We didn't realize how much we meant to the state until we got this far, but now that we're here, that's just an added bonus, like Coach Brady said, to win it for them also.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SMITH: We're now here live from Indianapolis. LSU very well represent here in Indianapolis. We understand talking to a ticket seller earlier today that LSU fans are buying most of the tickets here on the street. And what a story it would be for the Tigers if they could win the first men's basketball title for the entire state of Louisiana.
The LSU versus UCLA, the second game here tonight. Game one, George Mason versus Florida and Patriots of George Mason, what a story. NCAAsports.com reporting that they are selling 800 percent more than LSU, in terms the sales. In fact, one store I went into a moment ago, almost sold out of their T-shirts, already with George Mason. That game about to tip-off here in about 15 minutes.
Let's go back to you.
LIN: You said LSU and UCLA, Larry. That's my alma mater. Not sure who to root for. I'll have to think about that one. Thanks so much. It's tough!
SMITH: OK.
LIN: Well, we have been talking a lot about immigration this hour, but there's still questions we have yet to tackle. For example, is illegal immigration someone else's problem? Up next, a "Lou Dobbs Special Report: Broken Borders". Lou examines how illegal immigration and border security affect the entire country. Not just small businesses, or border states. That's next on CNN.
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