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CNN Live Saturday

Minutemen Want Serious Crackdown on Illegal Immigration; "Legal Briefs"; Cheetahs Fighting for Survival

Aired May 13, 2006 - 14:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: "Now in the News," thousands in Indonesia are scrambling away from Mount Merapi today. A new lava dome is building in the volcano, causing concern that the mountain could blow at any time. Experts say a major eruption could displace 80,000 people.
A tremendous explosion knocks on Oklahoma oil refinery offline. Firefighters let the blaze burn itself out. Homes, schools and day care center were evacuated for a while. The refinery processed 54,000 barrels of crude a day.

President Bush says Air Force General Michael Hayden is quote, "supremely qualified" to head the CIA. Today during his weekly radio address, the president urged the Senate to quickly confirm Hayden to the post.

And CNN plans live coverage of the president's address Monday night. He'll focus on illegal immigration. Pentagon sources say the administration is considering a new approach, and it could mean 10,000 National Guard troops along the border with Mexico.

That may not be enough for an anti-immigration group that helps patrol the U.S./Mexican border. Members of the so-called Minutemen project favor a serious crackdown on illegal immigration. They took that message to Washington this weekend, but they weren't welcomed by everyone.

Here's CNN's Tom Foreman.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Through a crowd of angry protesters and fresh from a tour of the country, the Minuteman Project arrived at the Capitol with a message for lawmakers: Enforce immigration law, or else.

STEPHEN EICHLER, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, MINUTEMAN PROJECT: If you will not protect our liberties, then you will be booted out of office!

(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)

EICHLER: And you will be sent to the unemployment line! And we will find a patriot who loves America to take your place!

FOREMAN: Whether this group can deliver on such threats is not clear, but they have seized the spotlight, patrolling illegal border crossings, reporting employers who hire illegals, and relentlessly demanding that America's boundaries be secured.

PATTY PEEBLES, MINUTEMEN SUPPORTER: We want it done the right way. And that's all we're asking.

FOREMAN: David and Michelle Beasley say they have never been involved in politics before, but drove nine hours from South Carolina to say they're worried about the effect of illegal immigrants on national security, American culture, and the economy.

MICHELLE BEASLEY, MINUTEMEN SUPPORTER: We see people getting paid under the table.

FOREMAN (on camera): Day workers.

BEASLEY: Day workers. They're lined up on the streets down from where we live.

FOREMAN: And what do you think that does to work American workers and American wages?

DAVID BEASLEY, MINUTEMEN SUPPORTER: They cannot compete. They cannot compete.

UNIDENTIFIED PROTESTERS: Bigots in suits and ties, we don't want your racist lies!

FOREMAN (voice-over): Protesters who want amnesty for illegal immigrants call the Minutemen racist, Klansmen, Nazis.

AMADA JAUREGUI, PROTESTER: But I'm here to tell them that we are opposed to them, and there are many people who just disagree wholeheartedly with what their opinion is.

FOREMAN (on camera): The Minutemen have caught on because a lot of Americans are growing concerned about immigration and fearing that their government is not doing enough.

WILLIAM ABERCROMBIE, TRUCK DRIVER: They're -- they're just not listening to the people. And, so...

FOREMAN: Why would they do that?

ABERCROMBIE: Honestly, I think it's because of the -- the influence that the lobbyists and corporate America has, and they want the cheap labor in this country.

FOREMAN (voice-over): Immigration rights activists have filled the streets, but the Minuteman Project aims to fill elected offices with people who can make tough immigration laws and make them stick.

UNIDENTIFIED PROTESTERS (singing): ... of the brave.

(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)

FOREMAN: Tom Foreman, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KEILAR: That story comes to us from "ANDERSON COOPER 360." Join "A.C. 360" weeknights at 10:00 p.m. Eastern.

This programming note. Our in-depth coverage of Monday's presidential address on immigration gets started with a special edition of "THE SITUATION ROOM" at 7:00 p.m. Eastern. Then we find out what Lou Dobbs has to say on that topic, followed by "LARRY KING LIVE." And at 10:00 p.m. Eastern, join Anderson Cooper for a special report on illegal immigration reform. It's all on CNN Monday night.

If you see long lines at the pharmacy this weekend, don't be surprised. Monday is the deadline to enroll in the Medicare prescription drug program without a financial penalty. And some six million eligible seniors still have not signed up. Many still have questions about how the program works.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. MARK MCLELLAN, MEDICARE ADMINISTRATOR: It's completely understandable that a lot of people will have a lot of questions. This is the most important new benefit in Medicare in 40 years.

But it's -- there are three simple steps that can help people take advantage of the coverage. Number one, make a list of your drugs or put your pill bottles in front of you. Number two, have your Medicare card handy, because it's got your Medicare number, and we can use that to give you personalized help. And number three, call us at 1-800-medicare, or go to one of the more than 1,000 events taking place all over the country.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: A new CNN poll suggests that many seniors still have their doubts about the prescription drug benefit. When asked is the new Medicare drug program working, only 30 percent said yes, 47 percent no, and the others were unsure.

And tomorrow, the secretary of Health and Human Services joins us live. Mike Leavitt will answer your e-mails on the Medicare prescription drug deadline. So send your questions to weekends@CNN.com, and tune in tomorrow at 9:00 Eastern.

Again today, President Bush is urging the Senate to approve his choice to head the CIA. But General Michael Hayden may be in for a tough slough next week. Some don't like the idea of a military man leading the agency, and this week's report that government is nosing into about your phone records isn't helping. Hayden led the agency that allegedly did the snooping.

Here's national security correspondent David Ensor.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is a brief report on the impact of war upon a nationwide service. DAVID ENSOR, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): For as long as there have been telephones and even well before that, the major communications companies have cooperated closely with the U.S. government. Former employees say during World War II, the government under President Franklin Roosevelt received copies of every single telegram sent in or out of the United States. Not by law, but by request.

A former administration official says the same thing is apparently going on now between AT&T, BellSouth and Verizon and the U.S. government and that it is legal, according to the Supreme Court.

RICHARD FALKENRATH, FMR. HOMELAND SECURITY ADVISER: They said, call records that are stripped of personal information about the customer are not covered by the fourth amendment and therefore may be held and used by a federal agency that gets there voluntarily.

ENSOR: Such as the National Security Agency in Fort Meade, Maryland, which is analyzing telephone, call records in search of terrorists. It is legal, too, who says Falkenrath for the companies to give the phone call data, just the telephone numbers under the Telecommunications Act of 1934 and subsequent laws, but clearly not everyone agrees. The then CEO of Qwest Communications, Joseph Nacchio refused the government's request for his customers' phone data.

In a statement his attorney says, quote, "When he learned that there was a disinclination on the part of the authorities to use any legal process, Mr. Nacchio concluded that these requests violated the privacy requirements of the Telecommunications Act. Accordingly, Mr. Nacchio issued instructions to refuse to comply with these requests."

Phone calls are not the only issue. In this AT&T building in San Francisco, according to a retired 22-year employee Mark Klein, who is a witness in a lawsuit against the government, the NSA scoops up e- mail and Internet traffic from the whole region.

JAMES BROSNAHAN, ATTORNEY FOR MARK KLEIN: He became aware and was assigned the job of assisting in a split of the fiber optic cable so that it took a complete copy of all of the e-mails and all of the web browsing that people do people of all kinds, companies of all kinds, and sent it to a secret government room.

ENSOR: NSA and AT&T officials offer no comment on the lawsuit.

(on camera): BellSouth, Verizon and AT&T also declined comment on their dealings with the NSA, but in a statement, Verizon said, it does not and will not provide any government agency with unfettered access to our customer records or provide information to the government under circumstances that would allow a phishing expedition.

David Ensor, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KEILAR: In our "Legal Briefs," a lot of people are upset about the news of NSA monitoring, but a lot of others say it's a necessary part of the war on terror. And also this week, a priest was convicted of killing a nun 26 years ago.

Let's talk to our legal experts about these cases. Avery Friedman is a civil rights attorney and law professor. Richard Herman is a New York criminal defense attorney.

And Avery, let's start with you. When is it OK for the federal government -- when do they have the legal authority to look for these -- this phone call information in this case?

AVERY FRIEDMAN, CIVIL RIGHTS ATTORNEY: Well, ordinarily, obviously, when you're dealing with issues of national security, Brianna, this is ordinarily when the government is involved. The difficulty is that this is a voluntary, a cooperative, effort. And it is only since the disclosure in "USA Today" that we know that millions of Americans' information has now been provided to the government. So really we don't know the answer on whether or not what's been done is illegal.

KEILAR: So we're still just waiting for more information on this, obviously.

FRIEDMAN: Well, but the information is only going to -- the government is not going to disclose that, Brianna. What's going to have to happen is that either we're going to see congressional hearings. Senator Specter from Pennsylvania, who chairs Judiciary, is -- has basically suggested that that may be a way to go. And also we have pending litigation, privacy litigation, in federal courts concerning what's happened here.

KEILAR: Which brings me to my next point. Next week, with Michael Hayden's confirmation hearings, obviously this will be aired before the Senate. Can you tell us, Richard, what impact do you think this is going to have on his nomination? Could it possibly scuttle it?

RICHARD HERMAN, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Oh, Brianna, this could absolutely squash his nomination for the CIA. I mean, it's so -- such politically charged at this point that the Democrats are going to grill this guy up, down and around. They're going to do everything they can to prevent him from becoming head of the CIA. This is a real bombshell here.

And as -- you know, as the -- as our constitutional protections are getting eroded during the course of the Bush administration -- all as a result of 9/11, I must say, because we were so embarrassed by what happened then -- you note from 9/11 until now, there have been no additional attacks on the United States. So it's a fine line to be drawn here, and it's going to be interesting to see how Congress handles this.

KEILAR: Now, moving on now to the case that we -- that came out of Toledo, Ohio. A priest convicted of murdering a nun 26 years ago. There really wasn't DNA evidence here, but can you talk, Richard, to what was the main thing that really had the jury convict him? HERMAN: Brianna, I'm astounded at that verdict in that case, I must tell you. The more I've read about it, there was no nexus, no connection at all to this priest. Some prosecution expert testified that a particular letter opener that he had in his drawer could have been responsible for some of the puncture wounds -- some. Not all; some. And based on that evidence alone, this jury convicted a priest of a murder 26 years ago. It's beyond belief to me, and I think there are real serious appellate issues in that case.

KEILAR: Avery, you're smiling there. You don't -- obviously don't agree. Do you think there's going to be an appeal?

FRIEDMAN: Well, there's going to be an appeal, but the -- I think it's very unlikely we're going to see this conviction overturned. And it's is more than simply the letter opener. Doctor -- the famous Dr. Henry Lee was the forensic experts that connected the death to the letter opener.

But there was much more. Father Robinson, among other things, testified that he took confession from the real murderer, and then that alibi went up in smoke. He actually had a motive. He didn't like Sister. This case, although it was clearly a cold case, had very strong evidence. And, you know, you have to look to the jury. I think an appeal is coming, but I don't think it is going anywhere.

KEILAR: Richard, your response?

HERMAN: Oh, there's definitely going to appeal, I think, to the lack of evidence for a conviction in this case. But I'm finding it difficult to argue with Avery today with that background with the American flag. He's so patriotic. I'm very intimidated...

FRIEDMAN: I'm always patriotic!

HERMAN: ... Avery.

FRIEDMAN: I'm always patriotic.

HERMAN: I'm very intimidated by you today. Very intimidated.

FRIEDMAN: Hardly. I doubt that. I doubt that.

KEILAR: All right, guys, I'm going to have you hang in there with us for a second. One of the convicted D.C. snipers is on trial again, as you know, and our legal team will stick around to weigh in on the case.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KEILAR: More with our legal team in just a minute, but first a check of our top stories.

Thousands of Indonesians are scrambling to get away from this dangerous volcano. Mount Merapi has been spewing more lava and could erupt at any time. Officials say more than 22,000 residents need to evacuate. And in the Phillipines, a deadly typhoon. At least 24 people were killed when the storm hit today. Most of them were in a boat that capsized. Forecasters predict the storm will strengthen even more before heading towards Hong Kong.

The D.C.-area sniper trial is back in the news, and Zacarias Moussaoui has been delivered to maximum security prison in Colorado. Let's go ahead and bring our legal experts back to discuss these cases. Once again, Avery Friedman and Richard Herman.

Now, Avery, John Allen Muhammad, he's already on death row in Virginia. He's on trial again in Maryland. Is this overkill?

FRIEDMAN: Oh, not at all. In fact, if the prosecution really wasn't doing what it's doing right now, they really would be failing to fulfill their responsibility. The convictions, Brianna, were convictions in Virginia. Now we're dealing with the victims who live in Maryland. So these prosecutions are absolutely necessary, and they will continue on in order to maintain the integrity of the justice system.

KEILAR: Richard, what do you think?

HERMAN: Well, Brianna, look, everybody in Maryland knew about this guy. Everybody knew he got convicted. Everyone knew he got a death sentence. Now try to pick a fair jury to try him. I think 99 percent of the jury has vocalized that they thought he was guilty before the trial started. The 12 that they have in the box now, I'm sure deep down they feel this guy is guilty.

And it's going to be a farce. He's going to go down in this case in flames. But the interesting thing is his partner there, Lee Boyd Malvo, may testify against him in this one.

FRIEDMAN: Yes.

KEILAR: And what are we expecting to hear, then? Can you give us a -- what you're expecting?

HERMAN: Well, look, Lee Boyd Malvo is looking to try to cut some time off his sentence and try any way to see the light of day again. So pretty much what they want him to say, he's probably going to say if it helps the government case there, because he's also facing substantial prison time.

FRIEDMAN: And it won't matter. It won't matter.

HERMAN: It won't matter, right.

KEILAR: You guys think the lawyers learned anything from the first case in this situation?

HERMAN: Well, depends on which lawyers. Remember, Muhammad is in there trying to be his own lawyer. I mean, the court was very protective of his individual rights. But you know what, some defendants are either so stupid or so arrogant that they actually try to do this. And that's part of the reason -- at least one of the reasons -- that Muhammad's got to go up in flames. I agree with that.

KEILAR: So let's move along to Zacarias Moussaoui. He is now in prison, a maximum security prison in Colorado. And we found out last week, "The Washington Post" reported that only one juror held out and that is the only reason that he got life in prison instead of the death penalty. And the foreman of the jury said that that juror actually -- it was anonymous, that they wouldn't come out and sort of give an argument for why he should not receive the death penalty. Were you surprised by that?

FRIEDMAN: I was shocked by that. I thought there would be pretty much a 50-50 split on that jury. To find out now that one juror prevented him from getting the death sentence here is just amazing to me. They really believe the government argument. You know, it was a very emotionally charged case, Brianna. And I'm sure Avery will agree with me, when the government plays on emotions of the jurors, you know, it's a very, very tough battle to defend against. And here they definitely bought it hook, line and sinker. And this one juror held out. It's amazing only one juror prevented his death.

HERMAN: That's right.

KEILAR: And Avery, I want to ask you this. Moussaoui filed on Friday to appeal a court order denying him a chance to withdraw his guilty plea, and request a new trial. This is being called a long- shot effort. What are we expecting here?

FRIEDMAN: Long shot? That's going to wind up in the "Guinness Book." I mean, look, there -- Moussaoui has been protected from the beginning of this matter. Judge Brinkema has done a wonderful job. He has about as much chance of getting a new trial as we have of stopping immigrants flying over the border in Mexico. It's just not going to happen.

HERMAN: Procedurally, it was an impossible motion to make. He had already been sentenced. Once you're sentenced, you can't then go back to the judge and say I made a mistake I want to change my plea.

FRIEDMAN: I was just kidding. Right.

HERMAN: It's outrageous.

KEILAR: Thank you so much to both of you for being with us today. Richard Herman and Avery Friedman. Moving right along now.

Cheating death in the African outback. Find out why the big cats are fighting for survival.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KEILAR: It's the fastest creature on land but time may be running out for the cheetah. Gary Striker reports for the CNN Saturday series, "Our Planet."

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) GARY STRIKER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Nature built this cat for speed. Scientists say there's never been a land animal as fast as the cheetah but even at 70 miles per hour, it is losing its race for survival.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: In the last 50 years we have had cheetahs go extinct in 16 countries. Today the populations throughout 28 countries are -- many of them are just holding on by a thread.

Altogether, fewer than 12,000 cheetahs are believed to be holding out in the wilds of Africa and Iran. They suffer from birth defects because they lack genetic diversity. They are losing habitat and they don't do well in protected reserves, in confined spaces competing with lions and hyenas.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Every part of their body is built for speed versus aggression. They can't fight for their food against other large predators.

STRIKER: That forces cheetahs to move outside protected areas where they prey on domestic livestock and are often poisoned or shot by ranchers.

But this cat's future looks brighter in Namibia, which has the world's largest population of cheetahs, more than 90 percent of them on private ranches. After 14 years of work supported by donations, the Cheetah Conservation Fund is credited with reversing the animal's decline in Namibia, with research studies, educational programs, capturing and removing problem cheetahs to other areas and the novel idea of providing farmers with hundreds of special guard dogs for protecting livestock. These conservationists are showing how humans and cheetahs can co-exist.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: For the cheetah we have to look at mixed management on how to find a way that they can live outside of reserves and inside of reserves.

STRIKER: They are now taking their methods to other countries where cheetahs face extinction. In what many wildlife experts believe is the last best chance to save this vanishing species. Gary Striker for CNN, Atlanta.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KEILAR: At the top of the hour, Anderson Cooper special, "24 Hours on the Border." If you haven't even it yet, don't miss it during the 4:00 p.m. hour I'll talk to the author of this book, "Crime Beat." He's a mystery author who writes about things he knows: killers, cops and stories behind the headlines.

Speaking of headlines, we'll check ours when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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