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CNN Live Saturday

Top Justice Officials Threatened to Resign; Massive Earthquake Rocks Indonesia

Aired May 27, 2006 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Now in the news, a showdown over an FBI raid on Capitol Hill. Administration officials tell CNN that Attorney General Alberto Gonzales, Deputy Attorney General Paul McNulty and FBI Director Robert Mueller threatened to quit if they were forced to return materials seized in Congressman William Jefferson's office.
A live report straight ahead.

The death toll in Indonesia keeps rising following a massive earthquake. Officials now list more than 3,000 dead and thousands injured. The quake measured 6.3. A live report from the scene coming up.

A false alarm -- construction noise is blamed for a lockdown on Capitol Hill yesterday. Police and ambulances swarmed the Rayburn House Office Building after gunshots were reported. The noise turned out to be a construction worker using an air hammer.

Coalition air strikes hit a suspected insurgent training camp in southern Afghanistan. Military officials say five people were killed in last night's attack, including some key Taliban leaders.

The New Orleans Aquarium is now open for the first time since Hurricane Katrina. Three thousand people turned out for the opening. About 10,000 fish and animals died during the storm. It cost $5 million to replace the animals and make repairs there.

We update the top stories every 15 minutes on CNN LIVE SATURDAY.

Your next update is coming up at 2:15 Eastern.

And welcome to CNN LIVE SATURDAY.

I'm Fredericka Whitfield.

Ahead this hour, Pope Benedict in Poland. And talk of sainthood for the late pontiff, John Paul II.

Also, we're remembering America's fallen heroes on this Memorial Day weekend.

But first to our top story.

Ready to resign rather than relinquish evidence -- Attorney General Alberto Gonzales and other top Justice officials took that stance this week. They were planning to quit their jobs over a raid on Capitol Hill.

Our Kathleen Koch joins us live from the White House with more -- Kathleen.

KATHLEEN KOCH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Fredericka.

CNN has now confirmed through multiple sources, two senior administration officials, a senior Justice Department official and others, that this document dispute reached a tipping point this week. And that was when it appeared that the FBI might be forced to return the materials that were seized from the office of Congressman William Jefferson of Louisiana, being investigated for bribery.

And according to these officials, Attorney General Alberto Gonzales, Deputy Attorney General Paul McNulty and FBI Director Robert Mueller threatened to resign if that happened.

A senior Justice Department official tells CNN that the men were very angry. Another senior government official says: "They were all ready to walk."

Two senior administration officials say the threats were relayed to the White House midweek. But a source familiar with those investigations -- those, excuse me -- negotiations, as well as a senior government official, say that the threats were not made directly to the president. "It never rose to the level of someone saying if you do this, we're out of here."

The source said that the threats came amidst conversations and negotiations that were usually framed as a hypothetical: "If this and this happens, then these may be the consequences."

The source said that while there was plenty of brinkmanship between the two sides that both at the same time made it clear that they didn't want this to proceed to a showdown.

Now, once the White House announced on Thursday that these documents would be sealed for 45 days, that the FBI would have no access to them, the source said that while both sides were not backing off their positions they were "changing their tones a bit."

Back to you -- Fredericka.

WHITFIELD: All right, Kathleen Koch from the White House.

Thank you so much.

KOCH: You bet.

WHITFIELD: A senior administration official says the situation reached the tipping point.

Weighing in now is our legal expert, civil rights attorney and law professor Avery Friedman, who joins us today from Baltimore.

Good to see you, Avery. AVERY FRIEDMAN, LAW PROFESSOR: Nice to see you, Fredericka.

WHITFIELD: All right, well, first, this is a first, isn't it, for a sitting lawmaker on Capitol Hill, for offices to be raided?

What sort of protections are in place so that this were not to happen under certain conditions?

FRIEDMAN: Well, actually it is the first time in 219 years that we have ever seen anything like this. The difficulty is that the members of Congress that are upset are saying there is violates separation of powers. And it's a very interesting argument because we've never had anything like this before.

And so what happened is that President Bush, in setting up a 45- day delay, has really neutralized what was potentially a cataclysmic constitutional crisis.

WHITFIELD: But under conditions of, perhaps, an investigation involving a felony or perhaps treason, that would allow this sort of raid to take place. And so we understand, this probe involves just that, an allegation of a felony, of bribery. And that is the, I guess the justification that the Justice Department is using for this raid.

FRIEDMAN: Well, that's exactly right. Under Article 1 of the constitution, that separation of powers has to be maintained. However, there's an exception to that. Under Article 1, the speech and debate clause, if there is evidence or allegations of a felony, in this case bribery is involved, that is the exception. Meaning that it is likely if push came to shove, if this case wound up in a courtroom, that the executive, the president, the FBI and the Justice Department, would probably prevail.

WHITFIELD: Why did -- why is it that we are hearing, reportedly, that the attorney general and other top Justice Department officials are feeling like the law was being undermined if this evidence were to be relinquished or returned altogether, as opposed to being sealed, as we now know the White House has done?

FRIEDMAN: Well, what's interesting here is that remember, Fredericka, that this has been a White House that's been slapped pretty good by the United States Supreme Court in overreaching its power. So there was a debate within the White House whether or not this is constitutionally permissible.

To be honest with you, I'm kind of impressed with guys like McNulty, and even Gonzales, who said you know what, this is within our power. This is something we should be doing. And if we return the evidence, the idea of these high level executives within the executive branch resigning, I think, showed integrity on their part.

WHITFIELD: All right, Avery, thanks so much.

And Avery Friedman will be back a little bit later on in this hour to discuss this week's verdicts in the Enron case. We'll also be joined by New York criminal defense attorney Richard Herman. We wouldn't possibly come between this duo that regularly visits us on Saturday, so don't miss that discussion.

In Indonesia, a natural disaster on a massive scale. The death toll from today's big earthquake has topped 3,000. Thousands of other people are hurt or missing. The quake, with a magnitude of 6.3, shook a wide area on the island of Java. It leveled entire towns and villages.

Doctors and aide workers are overwhelmed as they try to help the survivors.

More details from CNN's Dan Rivers in Jakarta.

(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)

DAN RIVERS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Amidst the dust and rubble of a shaken island, the bodies are being recovered in their thousands. This earthquake struck just before dawn, when most people were asleep. Many were entombed in their beds.

The corpses are being carefully freed from the debris one by one. They're loaded onto trucks. This is a slow, traumatic process. Distraught relatives still numb with shock.

Makeshift morgues are being set up. The hospitals are already overwhelmed. There are thousands of injured, many in a life- threatening condition. The hospital staff are struggling to cope, inundated with so many severely wounded survivors. Many are being treated where they're found, first aid administered amidst the ruins.

The earthquake measured 6.2 magnitude, not that strong compared to the near 9.3 quake that triggered the tsunami on neighboring Sumatra. But the devastation here in Java is still considerable.

This woman says she was cooking in the kitchen when the earthquake struck. "The house was shaking. I fell and some of the roof collapsed. This is a biggest earthquake that has ever happened here."

The epicenter was close to Mount Merapi, the volcano which the Javanese consider holy. It's been threatening to explode for weeks. The Volcanologists trying to assess if this quake will precipitate a full explosion. The aid effort is being hampered by the closing of Jakarta's main airport after the terminal building was damaged and cracks were discovered in the runway.

Many survivors have erected makeshift shelters amidst the devastation, facing their first night outside, waiting for help to arrive, struggling to comprehend what's happened.

(on camera): Indonesia is a country sadly used to natural disasters. But this earthquake, coming just a year-and-a-half after the tsunami, has taken many here by surprise and has once again left this huge nation mourning an incomprehensible loss of life. Dan River, CNN, Jakarta, Indonesia.

(END VIDEO TAPE)

WHITFIELD: And you can keep track of the latest developments in this earthquake on our Web site. The address is cnn.com.

Memorial Day is Monday, but already through the weekend ceremonies are underway.

At Arlington National Cemetery, members of the "Rolling Thunder" veterans organization laid a wreath at the Tomb of the Unknowns. They arrived in Washington after a motorcycle trip across the country. It's an annual effort to focus public attention on prisoners of war and Americans listed as mission in action.

Also at Arlington National Cemetery today, another veterans group. The "Flying Tigers" flew missions to protect Chinese supply lines against Japanese attack during the early years of World War II. Surviving members of that unit participated in a service to remember their fallen comrades.

President Bush pledged to pursue the war on terror today, delivering the commencement address at the U.S. military Academy at West Point. Mr. Bush said the U.S. will never give in to terrorism and it will never rest until the threat is ended.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: This is the first class to arrive at West Point after the attacks of September the 11th, 2001. Each of you came here in a time of war, knowing all the risks and dangers that come with wearing our nation's uniform and I want to thank you for your patriotism, your devotion to duty, your courageous decision to serve. America is grateful and proud of the men and women of West Point.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: President Bush told the graduates that while the war on terror began on his watch, it will end on their watch.

And on this Memorial Day weekend, CNN is taking a new look at the death of Corporal Pat Tillman, an NFL football player who gave up fame and fortune to join the Army after 9/11. Tillman was killed in Afghanistan two years ago, the victim of friendly fire.

Senior Pentagon correspondent Jamie McIntyre has combed through thousands of documents. What he found includes accusations of negligence and deceit. Also, we used those documents to show what happened that fateful day in Afghanistan.

That and more coming up later on CNN LIVE SATURDAY at 4:00 p.m. Eastern.

It once was Saddam Hussein's private hospital. Now, it's used to save the lives of wounded American soldiers in the war zone. That story straight ahead.

Paying tribute to his predecessor -- the latest from Poland, where Pope Benedict visits the hometown of John Paul II.

And the king of pop back in the public eye somewhere in those pictures. Up next, Michael Jackson emerges from seclusion for a special hour. There he is.

And details when CNN LIVE SATURDAY continues right after this.

(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Cesar Millan came to the United States with $100 in his pocket and a dream -- to be the world's best dog trainer. Today, you could say he's reached that goal. He owns a dog psychology center in Los Angeles and published a new book called "Cesar's Way."

His philosophy differs from traditional trainers. Cesar doesn't teach typical commands. Instead, he rehabilitates dogs to correct unwanted or aggressive behaviors. He also focuses on dog owners, training them to be assertive leaders, with the goal of achieving balance.

CESAR MILLAN, FOUNDER, DOG PSYCHOLOGY CENTER: What I want to create, besides this wonderful dog psychology center, is all over the United States you have different psychology centers for dogs, in order for dogs to get the benefit of what dog psychology is all about. So this way I feel that I did something for humanity.

UNIDENTIFIED CNN CORRESPONDENT: And the key to Cesar's success?

MILLAN: It's important that you surround yourself by people that love you, respect you and trust u. And if you don't have it, you can always get a dog.

(END VIDEO TAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: A quarter past the hour now.

Here's what's happening now in the news.

In Iraq, more deadly bloodshed. Among the latest casualties, an American Marine killed in action in Anbar Province. Right now the search is on in that region for two U.S. Marines who are missing after their helicopter crashed. The crash does not appear to be the result of enemy fire. Also today, attacks across Iraq have killed more than 20 people.

In Indonesia, the death toll from an earthquake has topped 3,000, with thousands more injured. The magnitude 6.2 quake struck in the early morning hours while many people were still sleeping.

President Bush delivered the commencement address at West Point this morning. He told the future leaders of the U.S. Army that their generation will achieve victory in the war on terror.

In New Orleans, another step forward in the city's efforts to get back to what used to be after Hurricane Katrina. The Audubon Aquarium of the Americans is open again. It cost about $5 million to fix the damage from the storm and to acquire new animals.

We update the top stories every 15 minutes on CNN LIVE SATURDAY.

Your next update is coming up at 2:30 Eastern.

Polish Catholics can't wait to see Pope John Paul II become a saint. Today, the current pope told them he agrees. Pope Benedict XVI was in Krakow, the Polish city where John Paul was bishop, archbishop.

CNN faith and value correspondent Delia Gallagher joins us now by phone -- and, Delia, give us an idea what has the buildup been like?

DELIA GALLAGHER, CNN FAITH AND VALUES CORRESPONDENT: Well, hi, Fredericka.

Yes, it's been quite interesting because I think some of the Poles were hoping that the pope might have an announcement to make. But instead he said that he, along with them, hopes that John Paul II will be made a saint in the near future. So that has to be interpreted as the process is still open and ongoing, and time will tell when that actually happens.

He's just finished now an outdoor gathering with young people. You know, that was something that John Paul II did quite a lot and over half a million kids from around Krakow came to an outdoor park, greeting him with flags and songs in the same sort of way as John Paul II.

And he spoke to them and said, you know, that their desire to (UNINTELLIGIBLE) of desiring a happy and successful life and really tried to sort of zone in on those kids and give them hope because this is part of his agenda of sort of renewing the Christian roots of Europe. And he's doing that here in Poland because it's 95 percent Catholic and still sort of very proud of John Paul II.

WHITFIELD: So, Delia, does it seem as though Pope Benedict's message resonated with the young people, similar to the way it did with John Paul II?

GALLAGHER: Well, it's interesting because, of course, you can't compare a German pope with a polish son, you know?

WHITFIELD: Yes.

GALLAGHER: And so the feeling is slightly different. But it's interesting that the Polish kids that I've talked to here have said that, you know, they had thought that Pope Benedict was going to be sort of stern and standoffish. And instead they've found him very welcoming. So in terms of their expectations of him, they've been quite happy. And, in fact, they did mention that they felt that he was speaking directly to them, you know? And so I think that, yes, he's been able -- he spoke in polish. That's one of the things that they mentioned, that he's got a great polish accent and he's been able to speak directly to some of their concerns.

So I think that they feel that he is doing as good a job as John Paul II did.

WHITFIELD: And, quickly, Delia, what's next on this journey?

GALLAGHER: Well, the most important stop, probably, is tomorrow at Auschwitz. It's his last stop. And he will be meeting with some of the survivors of the Holocaust and he'll also be saying a prayer in the German language, which will be significant there. And then it's back to Rome.

WHITFIELD: Delia Gallagher, thank you so much for joining us from Krakow.

GALLAGHER: Thanks, Fredericka.

WHITFIELD: Other news around the world now.

Militias are roaming the streets of East Timor's capital. They're carrying machetes, slingshots and spears and setting homes on fire, as well. International troops are arriving to try to stop that violence. East Timor broke away from Indonesian rule back in 1999.

In Moscow, they couldn't get a city permit and Russia's first gay pride rally never quite got off the ground. Gay activists who showed up anyway were kicked and beaten by anti-gay protesters. Witnesses say police stood by and just watched. Thirteen years ago today, Russia decriminalized homosexuality.

And they're just simply wild about Michael in Tokyo. Fans were screaming there for the king of pop, Michael Jackson. The pop star is making his first public appearance since being acquitted of child molestation charges here in the U.S. nearly a year ago. Jackson is in Japan to accept an MTV Legend Award.

Guilty most counts and facing rather long sentences. Ahead, our legal experts take a closer look at the convictions in the Enron trial.

Also...

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He came off the helicopter and he didn't have a heart rhythm at all. His pulse was -- he was shot in the head.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: Caring for the wounded in Iraq -- coming up next, the story of a Baghdad hospital that once was reserved for Saddam Hussein.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: When U.S. troops are wounded in Iraq, medical personnel make heroic efforts to save the lives.

"CNN PRESENTS" offers a rare glimpse at this medical care. In this except from "Wounded Warriors," correspondent Alex Quade visits Saddam Hussein's former private hospital, taken over by the U.S. Army.

A word of warning, though, some of the video may be disturbing.

(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)

ALEX QUADE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Welcome to the CSH, Combat Support Hospital, Baghdad, inside the green zone.

ARMY SPECIALIST MARK SPEARS: He came off the helicopter. He didn't have a heart rhythm at all. His pulse was -- he was shot in the head.

QUADE: Army Specialist Mark Spears takes over CPR from the flight medic.

SPEARS: You do chest compressions to circulate blood, hopefully restore a pulse.

QUADE: This is the E.R. Unlike the TV show, it's real -- all too real for 23-year-old Spears.

SPEARS: We keep track of all the Americans who've died on our shift while we work. All the little dots are American soldiers who were killed here in Iraq.

QUADE: He also marks the attacks on his hospital.

SPEARS: I used to keep track how many times we got bombed with lines, but we get bombed a lot more than we get dots. You know, I've probably been around like 10 times if I kept track of that. The green zone is a pretty big target for the Iraqis. They like to shoot at us.

We've had a couple mortar rounds hit the hospital. But as you can see, it's pretty well fortified. It's always in the back of your mind. You know, every time you go outside, a mortar round can hit right by you and kill you. There's nothing you can do about it. We try to do our job the best we can and hope for the best.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WHITFIELD: A personal look at fallen soldiers, the medics who save them and how battle injuries dramatically changed their lives.

"Wounded Warriors" airs tonight and tomorrow night at 8:00 and 11:00 Eastern only on CNN.

Taking aim at the Taliban -- coalition forces target Afghan rebels near the Pakistan border. Details straight ahead.

And take a look at this. A robber gets a whole more than he bargained for during this holdup. Ouch. Details straight ahead when CNN LIVE SATURDAY continues.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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