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CNN This Morning
Frank Luntz is Interviewed about Midterm Elections; Psychedelics Set to Become Legal in Oregon; FAA Considers Regulating Plane Seat Sizes. Aired 6:30-7a ET
Aired November 04, 2022 - 06:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[06:31:01]
POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: We are in the final stretch. Election Day just four days away. Early voting is way up this year across the country. And so far Democrats have sent in more ballots than Republicans.
But California Governor Gavin Newsom, not optimistic about his own party's chances.
Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Does it feel like a red wave?
GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM (D-CA): Yes, of course it does. And, again, I'm not paid to say that. I'm paid to say, you know, we're (INAUDIBLE).
We're getting crushed on narrative. We're going to have to do better in terms of getting on the offense and stop being on damn defense.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARLOW: Let's talk about that.
Pollster and communications strategist Frank Luntz is here.
What do you think? Is Gavin Newsom right?
DOM LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: The damn defense.
FRANK LUNTZ, POLLSTER AND COMMUNICATION STRATEGIST: I try to be careful about projections because you're going to have the tape and you're going to play it at 2:00 a.m.
HARLOW: We would never do that to you.
LUNTZ: You -- of course you would do that to me.
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: Oh, we might. LUNTZ: But every week I raise the Republican projections for the House. And for the first time I now think that it is 51/49 that it will be 51/49 in the Senate for the Republicans. That, as the economy takes center stage, and particularly affordability, not inflation, affordability, that helps the Republicans. And as abortion and the focus on Donald Trump recedes, Republicans do better and better.
COLLINS: And where is that majority coming from?
LUNTZ: It comes from two out of three states between Pennsylvania, Georgia and the state we never talk about, Nevada. Republicans have to win two out of those three. I believe that they actually will. But, to me, the more important story is what happens on the day after and the day after that. I'm afraid of the vote counting. And I wanted to be here with you all to alert your viewers that in Pennsylvania, which I believe is ground zero, Philadelphia, for what's going to be a crap show, they count ballots so slowly. And the first ballots that are counted are from the machine. And then only later on, hours later, do they start to count the paper ballots.
COLLINS: The day of versus early voting.
LUNTZ: Exactly. And day off is going to helps the Republican. Early voting is going to help the Democrat. And you're going to have people claiming that the election is stolen once again because the Republican will emerge with a five, six, maybe even eight point lead by midnight.
LEMON: Red mirage.
LUNTZ: Exactly.
LEMON: Yes.
LUNTZ: Now - now, it is quite possible that Dr. Oz wins. In fact, I'd say the odds now are again right on the line, 51/49 that he wins. But he's going to have this big lead, as of midnight, and it's going to get less and less.
LEMON: It's going to shrink.
LUNTZ: Exactly.
LEMON: And people are going to say, oh, it's, you know, the ballots were under the table and they're stuffing and what have you, which we had in 2020, right, the same sort of thing.
LUNTZ: And we have to hold people accountable. This is the other side, which is voter suppression. We have the biggest turnout in places like Georgia ever. People who want to vote can vote. People who want to participate, can participate. Their voices can be heard. So I'm saying to the Republicans, back off on corruption. I say to the Democrats, back off on suppression. And let's hold this election and let's stop tearing the country apart.
LEMON: But that's hard to say when you say, back off on suppression when there have been people who have traditionally, and with evidence, edged out of the voting process. And I think that - I think that we should be allowing people to vote as early and as often --
LUNTZ: We aren't (ph).
LEMON: Yes. I agree with you.
LUNTZ: Well -
LEMON: We are. In Georgia, witness - when witness -
LUNTZ: But - but we're not. And this -
LEMON: Hang on.
LUNTZ: On Friday, Saturday, Sundays.
LEMON: We're not - we're not when you are limiting the number of ballot boxes, when you're limiting the number of hours, when you're limiting the number of days, when you're fighting against Souls Against the Polls. What - people should be - I think - I think it should be a day off for people to be able to vote.
LUNTZ: Everybody - European countries -
LEMON: There are some - it doesn't mean that because a lot of people are voting, that doesn't mean that there aren't people who are taking advantage of suppressive antics (ph). And I understand that a lot of people are voting and that there are record numbers. I get that.
LUNTZ: Not (INAUDIBLE) -
LEMON: But we can't just say, because that is happening -
LUNTZ: (INAUDIBLE).
LEMON: Two things are possible. Both can be possible at the same time.
[06:35:01]
It's not one or the other.
LUNTZ: You ask Europeans, ask South Americans, nobody gets to vote like we do. We have the most open system on the fact of the globe.
LEMON: Doesn't mean it can't be improved.
HARLOW: The globe. That's right. Words out of my mouth.
LEMON: Doesn't mean it can't be improved.
HARLOW: Doesn't mean it can't be better here, right?
LUNTZ: But we keep improving it.
COLLINS: But, in Georgia, there was a lot of criticism that they got from Stacey Abrams in Georgia, President Biden in the White House.
LEMON: And she lost her court case. She lost her court case.
COLLINS: Yes. And as Governor Kemp pointed out to us when we interviewed him, there has been record turnout in the state. And that -- election officials that people relied on so much after Trump was fighting to overturn the Georgia results said voter suppression is just as much of a lie as voter fraud. That's what Gabriel Sterling said.
LUNTZ: And the Georgia laws are based on New York laws. And New York laws are not determined by Republicans. They were determined by Democrats.
All I'm saying is, as we continue to cast aspersions at our electoral system, we're doing ourselves real damage.
LEMON: That's true. I agree.
LUNTZ: Young people do not believe that our democracy is working and neither do their parents or their grandparents.
HARLOW: Yes.
LEMON: But that doesn't mean that we can't talk about and find ways to improve. I do believe that there are suppressive tactics.
But speaking of all of these people who are voting, there have been, what, more than 30 million people across 46 states that have already voted. And my question is, are we underestimating the early vote count, whether it's for Democrats or Republicans, because usually it favors Democrats, but maybe Republicans have learned their lesson from 2020.
LUNTZ: Well, the governor of Florida, who may be a presidential candidate, is challenging Donald Trump directly. Trump has always said, only vote on Election Day. Governor DeSantis says that's crazy. Vote early so that you're sure your vote gets counted.
COLLINS: And Trump's campaign aides, when he was doing that in 2020, were like -
LEMON: No!
COLLINS: Pulling their hair out and screaming into pillows because they were like, we want people to early vote. We want to not just have Democrats have the advantage of early voting. We want that. And Trump was telling people, don't early vote because you can't trust it.
HARLOW: Can we - go - can we talk too about Oprah's endorsement here?
LUNTZ: Yes, I was just going to do that.
HARLOW: All right, let's talk about Oprah's endorsement of -
LEMON: Dr. Oz does not get a car. Because he's not one of Oprah's favorite (ph) things (ph). HARLOW: Dr. Oz doesn't need a car - Dr. Oz does not need a car from Oprah or another house.
But I would like to ask you, what do you think, because everyone's like, oh, this is big for Fetterman to get Oprah's endorsement. Remember a month ago -
LEMON: Yes.
HARLOW: The statement from the Oprah camp was like basically we're not getting involved here. And then she just said, I - I would have - if I lived in Pennsylvania, I would have already voted for Fetterman for many reasons. Good for him?
LUNTZ: Not necessarily.
HARLOW: Huh.
LUNTZ: I know her. She's wonderful. And her commitment to the community, to making a difference, we need more people like that.
LEMON: I know where you're going with this.
LUNTZ: Yes.
LEMON: She's seen as an elitist in Hollywood.
LUNTZ: Yes.
LEMON: And they may turn people off in Pennsylvania, is that what you're saying?
LUNTZ: In the places where she could make the greatest difference, her voice doesn't carry as much weight.
LEMON: But people have - they won't. Oprah came from nothing. She's self-made. A self-made person who actually made Dr. Oz into a celebrity.
LUNTZ: And no -
LEMON: Dr. Oz was a very - a neurosurgeon, I believe, right?
LUNTZ: And, by the way, I owe him.
LEMON: Very successful (ph).
LUNTZ: I don't know if I want to talk about this on air in the morning.
LEMON: No, go for it.
LUNTZ: I had a stroke -
LEMON: Yes. LUNTZ: On the 10th of January 2020. So, I understand what he's going through. And I don't always speak as well as I should. Sometimes I lose my thinking. Thank you for the energy drink this morning. That helps me a lot.
COLLINS: Any time.
LUNTZ: It's an issue of empathy. And in the end, what's more important was that debate itself. The debate where people looked at the camera, they looked in him, they listened to him, and they thought, this is a good man, but maybe he's not ready to be a United States senator in a tough state, in a tough year, in a tough institution.
What they want is someone who can be their voice. We've been asking this question. Want they want is someone who can get results and someone who can be their voice. And it's why I'm thinking that when all the votes are counted - and I did not believe this last week - so, I'm thinking that Dr. Oz may emerge victorious from that.
And having an outsider like Oprah -- we saw this with Hillary Clinton. She went into the same state in 2016. She was campaigning very much for -- he was for Hillary Clinton. It actually had a negative impact.
We are looking for people who look like us. Who talk like us.
LEMON: I think you're right.
LUNTZ: (INAUDIBLE).
LEMON: But there's one part of your argument I'm not sure about. I don't know if they'll see Oprah as an outsider. Maybe they'll see her as an elitist. I see that. But they also see Dr. Oz as an outsider because he's not from Pennsylvania. He actually lives in New Jersey. And he is the candidate.
HARLOW: Thank you, Frank.
LUNTZ: And there's the music, so I know the segment's over.
LEMON: Yes. Thank you, Frank.
HARLOW: This isn't - they play us to commercial. They really get to commercial.
COLLINS: We'll have you back many more times.
LEMON: I appreciate it.
COLLINS: Thank you.
LEMON: And speaking of Frank Luntz, psychedelics.
LUNTZ: Oh, so you know my history. It's true, by the way.
LEMON: We'll talk about that.
It could be the next frontier in drug legalization. A new CNN report on Americans turning to magic mushrooms as medicine. That's next.
COLLINS: Plus, people are fed up. Seats on airplanes, are they just too small, and what is the FAA going to do about it?
[06:40:03]
HARLOW: Frank, what a great discussion.
LEMON: Yes, that was a really great discussion.
HARLOW: Thank you, friend.
LEMON: Thank you. Appreciate it.
COLLINS: (INAUDIBLE) personal.
HARLOW: Yes.
LEMON: Yes, (INAUDIBLE).
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LEMON: So, we just had this conversation this week with Dr. Gupta about the potential benefits of magic mushrooms. And it just so happens that psychedelics are set to become legal in Oregon at the start of next year. But next week's election, it might change that.
So, joining us now, CNN correspondent David Culver.
David, good morning.
What is happening here?
DAVID CULVER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Don. Good morning to you.
So important to see what's happening with psychedelics in Oregon because similar efforts are now popping up across this country. And you might wonder if Oregon residents already voted back in 2020 to legalize psilocybin, magic mushrooms, then what's changed?
Well, there is this uneasiness that's growing for some in the state that the state regulators may not be ready to control safely this mind-altering substance.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CULVER (voice over): On the nearly 1,000 acre New Frontier Ranch in southern Oregon, Mike Arnold wants to explore uncharted territory.
[06:45:09]
MIKE ARNOLD, PROPOSES PSILOCYBIN RETREAT IN OREGON: This will literally save people's lives because psychedelic medicine works.
CULVER: He's talking specifically about psilocybin, or magic mushrooms as most know them. A natural substance he firmly believes can bring internal healing.
ARNOLD: I thought this. I have to get this in the hands of many people that are suffering as quickly, inexpensively as possible.
CULVER: But to do that, his company, Silo Wellness (ph), had to go where psilocybin is legal. They chose Jamaica. With medical professionals on sight to keep watch, vetted participants ingest the drug. Medicine, as they prefer.
CHRISSI DELACRUZ, ATTENDED PSILOCYBIN RETREAT: It was in a powder form that was mixed with like a juice.
CULVER (on camera): Are you thinking, oh, gosh, what's this going to do?
DELACRUZ: Yes. Definitely nervous.
CULVER (voice over): Chrissi DelaCruz says she turned to the drug to help her grieve the loss of her sister and a recent breakup.
DELACRUZ: I was feeling pretty lost and hopeless.
So, this is my room.
CULVER: So, in June, she traveled down to Jamaica for one of the retreats. She says she remembers every detail from her altered state, but, like many, struggles to convey the experience through words.
DELACRUZ: And it almost was like I could see the life within everything around me. I -- it sounds weird, but it's like to feel what it really is like to feel alive.
CULVER (on camera): Do you start to revisit some of - some of the loss and pain?
DELACRUZ: There definitely was a lot of processing and healing that I was able to do during the ceremony, and then especially afterwards too.
CULVER (voice over): Arnold wants to bring the same retreat ceremony, as he calls it, stateside, beginning in Oregon. In 2020 the state became the first in the U.S. to legalize the growth and distribution of psilocybin at licensed service centers to be taken under strict supervision and with restrictions on driving, opening a potentially billion dollar industry.
Folks like McMenvil (ph) farmer Jason Lampman, a dad of three toddlers, willing to spend nearly $50,000 to undergo the mandatory training and licensing and to build the infrastructure required for approval.
JASON LAMPMAN, OREGON FARMER: I want to do it right here. My family's here. All of our other businesses are here. It's a farm crop.
CULVER: He plans to host people for a few hours.
LAMPMAN: Over here we'd have something like a yurt.
CULVER: As they experience a mind-altering journey amidst his small orchard.
CULVER (on camera): Do you think it's safe for the kids?
LAMPMAN: There's a winery right there. People can drink as much alcohol as they want and drive down this road. I think that's a way more concerning conversation that I'm going to have to have.
CULVER: It might sound so strange. Something that's only happening way out west in places like here in Oregon. But other states across the country are also exploring this new frontier.
CULVER (voice over): Colorado likely to put legalizing psychedelics to a state vote. New Jersey and Washington have already reduced penalties for possession and personal use. More than a dozen other states actively studying the potential benefits or considering their own legislation.
For centuries psychedelics have been used for treatment and rituals by traditional cultures.
RICHARD NIXON, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: America's public enemy number one.
CULVER: But in the '70s, with the war on drugs, they were criminalized in the U.S. Today, the medical community is studying psilocybin to treat PTSD, anxiety, depression, and even to curb alcohol use.
But a recent headline raised concerns about the effects of mushrooms potentially sparking erratic behavior, the lingering unknowns and stigma creating a growing unease in Oregon.
MAYOR HENRY PORTER, STAYTON, OREGON: We just want to say no. We want to opt out for a while.
CULVER: More than a hundred counties and cities in Oregon may be pushing back. Stayton Mayor Henry Porter, one of many who have secured November 8th ballot measures allowing voters to ban psilocybin businesses locally.
CULVER (on camera): You feel like the community needs protecting from this measure?
PORTER: Yes.
CULVER: Why?
PORTER: I don't know what it does. I don't know how it would be controlled. I don't know how to keep kids away from it. I guess it's -- the fear of things we don't understand.
CULVER (voice over): A similar concern echoed back in southern Oregon near New Frontier Ranch. It's here the legalization of cannabis proved messy in 2015, led to the participation of cartels, human trafficking and water depletion. Legalizing a new drug, not going over well here.
MARY ANNE CRANDALL, LIVES NEAR PROPOSED PSILOCYBIN RETREAT: Oh, boy, you've got that right.
CULVER: Mary Anne Crandall lives next to the ranch. She's open to the potential therapeutic benefits but worries about the impact.
CRANDALL: We have a very unique community, and we want to keep it that way.
CULVER: Arnold sees psilocybin as a vital service that's more medicinal than recreational.
ARNOLD: There are people suffering right now that will get the peace that they need to make it through another season, to make it through another day. That they'll learn that they have value, that they have worth, that life has dignity and that - and they're special and they're love and they're lovable.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CULVER: Don, much like cannabis, which today feels so main stream and is now legalized in an increasing number of states, what's happening in Oregon with psychedelics, this really could prove a road map for the rest of the U.S., if it's done right, providing for what those advocates argue will be a safe and regulated structure.
[06:50:04]
We'll see.
LEMON: Yes, you're so right about that with the comparison to marijuana. Now I walk around cities all over the country and I smell more marijuana than I do cigarettes. So -
CULVER: Right.
LEMON: Yes. Thank you, David. Appreciate it.
CULVER: All right.
LEMON: Thank you.
CULVER: See you.
LEMON: So, if you think plane seats are too small, changes are coming. I don't know, are they going to get smaller? I don't know. Who knows. That's next.
COLLINS: That would be my bet (ph).
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HARLOW: The endless debate, how much smaller can airplane seats get? Americans fed up with tiny airplane seats. So thousands have flooded the FAA with complaints, hoping the government will actually do something to fix this.
Our Pete Muntean joins us live from Reagan National Airport.
Can they actually do this and fit three seats on either side on a lot of these planes and like be within regulation?
PETE MUNTEAN, CNN AVIATION CORRESPONDENT: We'll see. You know, there is no rule against it, Poppy.
HARLOW: All right.
MUNTEAN: Seeing as though airlines keep shrinking seats. More people equals more profit. But what's so interesting here is that now the FAA is looking at this strictly from a safety issue. And passengers tell us, hey, at least it's a start.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MUNTEAN (voice over): Luxury is what flying was supposed to be. But these days, leg room is shrinking as passengers are getting larger.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Things are definitely getting too small on planes.
AMELIA MARTIN, PASSENGER: We're dying. And that doesn't matter what airline it is.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I can't imagine seats or aisles being smaller than they are today.
MUNTEAN: Now, the Federal Aviation Administration is considering whether to stop airlines from making seats smaller.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Evacuate! Evacuate! Leave everything! Come this way!
MUNTEAN: The agency is under a congressional mandate to study whether seat size could slow an evacuation. But in 26,000 public comments, many focused on comfort.
PAUL HUDSON, PRESIDENT, FLYERSRIGHTS: The idea is that the more people you can jam into a plane, the more money you'll make.
MUNTEAN: FlyersRights President Paul Hudson says airlines are trying to squeeze out more profit. This week six U.S. senators told the FAA to act urgently and not wait for seats to get any smaller.
So, I decided to put airlines to the test.
MUNTEAN (on camera): Two things necessarily for this little experiment of our own, a ticket and a tape measure.
MUNTEAN (voice over): On this United Airlines flight, leg room was right at the industry standard, 30 inches. But it all depends on the airline. Leg room can get even tighter on ultra-low cost carriers
MUNTEAN (on camera): That's tight.
MUNTEAN (voice over): Twenty-seven inches is what we saw on this Allegiant Airlines flight.
FlyersRights proposes a minimum of 32 inches legroom and seats that are wider. Dimensions, it says, would fit 90 percent of Americans.
HUDSON: That would make a huge difference.
MUNTEAN: In its comment to the FAA, the airline industry's top lobby said it would not compromise on safety but told the government to stay out of regulating passenger comfort.
[06:55:09]
The FAA and the Department of Transportation declined our interview requests.
PETER GOELZ, FORMER NTSB MANAGING DIRECTOR: Their position to date has been, how uncomfortable you are is between you and the air carrier.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MUNTEAN: One airline is making some changes to its leg room. You might be surprised to learn, Poppy, that Spirit is ordering new planes that allow for an extra two inches of leg room. We will see if the FAA acts on this issue in total.
Remember, this is not going to happen anytime soon. More seats on a plane equals more money for the airline. But less seats and more room for you might make your ticket more expensive though.
Poppy.
HARLOW: There you go. The never-ending debate on seat size.
Pete Muntean, thank you, friend.
COLLINS: Two inches. How generous of Spirit Airlines. You're -- they're probably going to charge you for those two inches.
LEMON: Tired of all these seats on the you know what in plane.
Next, CNN is on the campaign trail in the final push to the midterms.
COLLINS: We also have new CNN reporting on what the Justice Department may do about the sprawling investigations into former President Trump if he runs again.
And new this morning, we are also getting word of South Korea scrambling jets after a new provocation by North Korea.
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