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Larry Hogan Says Trump Cost GOP Third Election; Biden Raises Concerns with Xi Jinping; Probe into Deadly Air Show Crash. Aired 8:30-9a ET

Aired November 14, 2022 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:30:00]

DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: She just texted us about our Schumer interview, if you haven't read your text.

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, we all do love each other, America.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: I'm trying to figure out where to look at your. OK. But let's just start on Larry Hogan because I think your follow-up to him was so perfect. He said three strikes you're out Trump. And you're like, are you sure. Which is what Maureen Dowd was saying yesterday, too, right, in "The New York Times."

BASH: Yes.

HARLOW: She's like, are we sure or is this going to reverse just like it has over and over again?

BASH: We've seen this movie before. I mean this is what everybody thought in the hours and maybe a couple of days after January 6th. Even from Lindsey Graham to Kevin McCarthy himself on the floor of the House of Representatives, signaling enough is enough, and then it changed. And Kevin McCarthy went down to Mar-a-Lago. The sort of famous picture with their thumbs up. And they -- instead of sort of taking the oxygen away from former President Trump, they gave him oxygen. And so it's a very, very big question.

I don't think we know the answer yet, despite what Larry Hogan said. I mean, remember, the governor of Maryland has been very much against Trump and Trumpism, particularly election denialism, consistently across the board. And he has, as I mentioned, kind of been on an island in his party on that note.

So, I honestly don't think we know, despite losing, we don't know whether or not Trump really is over in the party yet.

LEMON: Dana, this is what you do. So, and let me ask you - and I saw you this weekend. We were in a room with lots of different people from different political stripes, right? And a lot of people talking about the subject that we're talking about right now. And all of the, you know, billionaires, the big donors who are, you know, moving away from Donald Trump. But the question is, I mean, does it matter? He still has the people,

for the most part, at least the loudest part of the electorate, the MAGA folks. I'm wondering if it's - if that's going to make a difference because he can still get, you know, millions and millions of people to donate small amounts of money.

BASH: Yes.

LEMON: And so is that going to really make a dent if, you know, the elites, so to speak, in the Republican Party aren't really on his side?

BASH: Well, it's - you know, one way you can look at it is elites. You're talking about big donors. The other way that the -- many people in the party are looking at it right now is independents who are critical, who did help him win in 2016, and more kind of - sort of what they call weak Republicans. Republicans who are registered that way but tend to kind of swing back and forth. And the answer is, when you look at the general elections, if Donald Trump were to get that far, it definitely could hurt the Republican Party.

I think your -- the question that you're asking is really the question, especially as we look to tomorrow and this big announcement that the former president is teasing, whether he does actually go forward and announce that he is running for president. He does have a very strong, significant amount of support within the Republican Party. And if you look at the exit polls, it kind of bears that out. There is - even at the question of election denialism, there is that sort of 30 percent of the electorate, those who voted last week, who are with him on everything, if you just, again, look at it through the prism of was Joe Biden fairly and freely elected. And so that could help them in a Republican primary, but it could also destroy them in a national general election. So that is what the Republican Party is grappling with right now.

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: Yes, especially after Tuesday night.

BASH: Yes.

COLLINS: And you just heard our interview with Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer. We asked about whether or not Biden is more empowered to run again in 2024. He said, you know, that's up to him but he will support him if he does run.

Michelle Obama also weighed in on this recently. This is a really interesting comment that she made.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: President Biden is a good friend of yours. How do you feel he's doing as president?

MICHELLE OBAMA, FORMER FIRST LADY: I think he's doing a great job.

But it's a tough job and I think that he's doing the best he can under some tough circumstances. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you hope that President Biden will run again

in 2024?

OBAMA: You know, I - I - I - we'll have to see. It's - you know, the reason I don't speak on that is because I know what it feels like to be on the other side of it. And I think that that's a personal decision that he and his family have to make.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COLLINS: What did you make of that answer?

BASH: Very cautious. You know, you can understand what she's saying, is that she's been there, she's done that, and she is personally very close -- they know the Bidens so well after serving with them for eight years.

[08:35:05]

But it certainly wasn't a full-throated, I think he needs to do what it takes to go and do everything possible because he's the only guy for the job. That wasn't what she said. And I -- this is very, very -- this is a very active debate going on. It's not just on the airwaves. There is an active debate going on within the Democratic Party.

And it's kind of tough because people do love Joe Biden. And they do think, especially given what we've seen with the results of the midterms, that, you know, he's on the right course when it comes to policies, but there is concern, just to sort of talk about the elephant in the room, about his age. We had David Trone, who is a - now a newly re-elected member of Congress, very, very competitive district in Maryland, we had him on over the weekend, and he said, I love Joe Biden. I wish he were 30 years younger. And I think that kind of speaks to where a lot of Democrats are right now.

LEMON: Don't you think he -- she would be saying it if maybe Joe Biden had sat it, like, hey , I'm definitely going to run, then she'd be like, yes, great, go for it, you know?

BASH: Oh, 100 percent. One hundred percent.

LEMON: Yes.

BASH: Which is why she said, I'm going to kind of give them space.

LEMON: Yes.

COLLINS: Yes. Biden turns 80 a week from yesterday.

Dana Bash, great interviews yesterday. Thank you for joining us.

BASH: Hey, this is the first time I've been able to be on your wonderful show. I feel honored.

COLLINS: Really?

LEMON: Wait, what?

COLLINS: What?

BASH: I know, it's weird, right?

LEMON: What?

HARLOW: Yes.

BASH: I know.

LEMON: Dana.

COLLINS: We'll have you back tomorrow.

BASH: There have been late -

COLLINS: Come back tomorrow.

BASH: I don't know if you've noticed, but we've been up kind of late.

LEMON: Oh, really? No, we hadn't noticed that, Dana.

HARLOW: Thank you, Dana.

LEMON: Thank you.

COLLINS: All right, great to see you.

BASH: All right. Love it. Bye, guys.

LEMON: Yes. Bye.

HARLOW: Thanks.

COLLINS: Just in, we are now learning what happened during that three- hour meeting between President Biden and Chinese President Xi Jinping at the G20 summit. We are waiting for President Biden to take the podium. He'll be answering questions from reporters about that high- stakes meeting.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COLLINS: In just moments, President Biden is going to field questions from reporters at the G20 summit after he just ended about a three hour meeting, his first in-person meeting since taking office with Chinese President Xi Jinping.

We are now getting a readout of what happened during that meeting.

So, joining us now from Bali is CNN's senior White House correspondent Phil Mattingly, CNN White House correspondent MJ Lee and live in Beijing, CNN international correspondent Selina Wang.

[08:40:05]

Phil, I'm going to start with you.

We are getting a readout from the White House. What are officials saying about what happened behind closed doors?

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Kaitlan, it is a lengthy readout and one that really goes into several different critical issues, both priorities for President Biden and the priorities for President Xi, but also very clear objections that the U.S. side raised, as you noted, in a candid manner during this meeting.

Now, the overall meeting, they were behind closed doors, the two leaders and their teams, for just about three hours. As you noted, we're waiting for the president to come out and take questions here. But in that readout, the president spoke candidly and directly according to the readout about a series of issues, including human rights issues, including U.S. objections to what was framed as more aggressive behavior when it comes to Taiwan and in the Taiwan Strait specifically.

But there were also areas laid out that I think are critical given the low state of affairs when it comes to this bilateral relationship, including the idea that both leaders decided that they - their senior officials would be empowered to open up lines of communication. That is something that's been largely frozen over the course of the first two years of Biden's time in office. Also detailing areas where they think they can work together. And perhaps notably at the bottom of the statement, the issue of Ukraine, why it doesn't frame President Xi's kind of reference point or where he stands on the overall issue of Russia's invasion of Ukraine. They did say there was an agreement that nuclear weapons cannot be used and nuclear weapons should not be used in Ukraine. Implicit in that, obviously, is some of the threats we've seen from President Putin.

So, we'll have to see how the president frames or if he's willing to characterize what President Xi's responses were to some of the direct objections raised by the U.S. or when it comes to Russia's invasion of Ukraine. But the U.S. laying out a very detailed, to some degree, guys, path forward for a relationship that has been at a low point for several months, if not longer.

COLLINS: Yes. And, MJ, a lot of those tough issues that Phil just noted there that Biden did bring up with President Xi is obviously notable, but it also seemed like so much of what the White House was trying to get out of this meeting was rally just having an open line of communication there, being able to have this face-to-face conversation that they have not had because Xi has not left China because of the pandemic. And so, what are White House officials telling you about just establishing essentially a line of communication there between the two leaders?

MJ LEE, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Kaitlan, just keep in mind, first of all, that the read-out that we just got that Phil just ticked through in detail, that, of course, largely conveys President Biden's side of the conversation. What we don't know at this moment is how President Xi responded to some of the more contentious parts of this conversation, for example, Taiwan. Human rights concerns that the U.S. side raised. Economic practices that the U.S. sees as unfair. So, we are going to have to see whether there ends up being a bit of a he- said/he-said situation after both sides have really come out with their sides of the story of how these conversations went down.

But I think it is very important to remind everyone what U.S. officials, before this summit, said were the main goals going into this important meeting. They said, one, they want to make sure that the two leaders find areas of common practice and agreement. And, second, they said, as Kaitlan, as you noted, they want to make sure that they can establish open lines of communication going forward.

It is pretty clear, even just based on the U.S. side of this summit, the read-out that we just talked about, that they probably did achieve both of those objectives. So, I think it is not - you know, wouldn't be surprising if we ended up hearing from President Biden and other U.S. officials that, broadly speaking, they did end up seeing this summit as a success.

But I think, again, just really worth emphasizing, we are still waiting to get the Chinese side of things. And we'll see whether they are pretty frank about what areas of the conversations ended up being contentious. But, again, U.S. officials had said, going into this summit, they would rather have contentious conversations than no conversations at all.

LEMON: Well, why don't we bring in now Selina in Beijing for reactions there.

Selina, I want to get your reaction and also this question, too, about climate change and what role it played, but reaction there.

SELINA WANG, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, look, there's still a muted reaction right now. And what's important is that China has heavily censored media and social media. We've been looking for any reaction. And, in fact, they have censored the hashtag about this meeting on Chinese social media and have actually banned the comment section about this meeting. So very clearly at home China really wants to manage and control the message. At home very much China has been pushing this narrative that America is a hostile power that is trying to contain and suppress China. But what's notable is that internationally we've seen from those opening statements, from Xi Jinping, a more conciliatory message towards the United States, towards the world.

A positive sign is that we did see at least one point of agreement between the U.S. and China.

[08:45:01]

In Xi Jinping's opening statement, he following Biden's remarks saying that, look, China has a responsibility as a major global power to manage this relationship with the United States. They don't want this relationship to veer into a conflict. China can't afford to have instability right now. They've got major economic challenges here at home that have been compounded by the harsh zero Covid policy. But it's really hard for them to find any room to move forward here even if it comes to something that they both need to work on, which is climate change, because there's so much hostility and distrust right now. How they move forward from here, the bar is low. It's just about keeping that line of communication open because global peace depends on it.

LEMON: And we're going to hear in just moments, right, when the president steps up to the mic in Bali.

COLLINS: It will be fascinating to see what Biden says because there is so much riding on this, even if there aren't these massive deliverables.

We want Phil, MJ and Selina, they're going to stand by to talk about all of this with us.

Of course, we will be waiting to see what President Biden himself says that he got a sense of Xi as they were in that room together for about three hours.

LEMON: Biden expected to step up at any moment to - at this news conference in Bali. You see the podium there. And folks are waiting for the president of the United States to step up and give his comments.

HARLOW: Also, back here in the United States, federal investigators are now looking into a deadly midair collision of World War II planes. This happened during an air show in Dallas.

LEMON: Did you see that video? Oh, my gosh, it's crazy because you don't expect it.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARLOW: Federal investigators are now looking into a fatal midair collision. This happened in Dallas. Two World War II era military planes hit each other and crashed Saturday during an air show. Again, this happened in Dallas. All six people on these planes were killed.

Our Ed Lavandera joins us live from there this morning.

Ed, good morning. It's very, very sad. What are investigators looking at this morning?

ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, they are trying to figure out exactly what happened, reaching out to whoever might have clues. So many witnesses on the ground as these vintage aircraft were crisscrossing the sky this weekend here in Dallas when the unimaginable happened before the eyes of thousands of people.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

LAVANDERA (voice over): A tragedy in the sky. Two World War II era military planes collided midair during the Wings over Dallas Air Show, killing all six people on board the planes. The horrifying video footage shows the planes breaking apart midair, then hitting the ground and bursting into flames.

[08:50:08]

One witness described the scene.

MARK COLBURN, RETIRED DALLAS POLICE HELICOPTER PILOT: It was just an awful feeling. And I - and then, of course, you saw the big clouds of smoke, the black smoke, that billowed up.

LAVANDERA: The National Transportation Safety Board has an investigative team on site trying to determine how the Boeing B-17 Flying Fortress and the Bell P-63 King Cobra crashed. The planes did not have a black box on board, leaving investigators relying on witnesses to come forward with photos and video.

MICHAEL GRAHAM, NTSB MEMBER: We don't have any flight data recorder data or cockpit voice recorders or anything like that. It would be very critical to analyze the collision and also tie that in with the air traffic control recordings to determine why the two aircraft collided.

LAVANDERA: The B-17, the larger of the two plans, is a famous World War II aircraft, most well-known for the daylight bombing raids over Europe. The other plane was an extremely rare P-63 single seat fighter plane. The two vintage planes were among only a handful of air-worthy versions left flying worldwide. The Allied Pilots Association identified two B-17 crew members as Terry Barker and Len Root. Barker was a former city council member from Keller, Texas. Keller's mayor confirmed his death writing in a Facebook post, even after retiring from serving on the city council and flying for American Airlines, his love for community was unmistakable.

Major Curtis Rowe, a 30-plus year veteran of the Civil Air Patrol, was one of the crew members lost. The agency's commander wrote in a Facebook post, I reach to find solace in that when great aviators that Curt perish, they do so doing what they loved. To a great aviator, colleague and auxiliary airman, farewell.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LAVANDERA: So, Poppy, federal investigators will really lean on the Air Traffic Control recordings that they can get their hands on. Also talking to other pilots and -- who were in the air witnessing to kind of get any insight as to exactly how this could have happened.

But, you know, Poppy, one of the more chilling moments I saw this weekend in one of the videos that was -- is out there is the voice of a young child asking his parents if this was supposed to happen as the planes burst into flames there in front of so many people watching. Just a really terrifying and confusing moment for so many of the people who were at this air show this weekend.

Poppy.

HARLOW: So many people with their kids, I'm sure, as you note.

Ed, thank you for the reporting. Our thoughts with all their families.

We are still waiting for President Biden. He's about to take the podium and answer questions from reporters right here at the G20 in Bali.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:57:08]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: And, as you know, I'm committed to keeping the lines of communications open between you and me personally, but our governments across the board, because our two countries are -- have so much that we have an opportunity to deal with.

XI JINPING, PRESIDENT OF CHINA (through translator): A statesman should think about and know where to lead his country. He should also think about and know how to get along with other countries and the wider world.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COLLINS: Two superpowers coming face-to-face for the first time since Biden took office today. Of course, that is that meeting that happened, just ended a few moments ago between President Biden and President Xi. We are waiting for President Biden. He is expected to walk out any moment now to answer questions from reporters about what happened behind closed doors.

It's really remarkable because this is the first time they are actually meeting in person. You know, they have spent a lot of time together when Biden was vice president. This is their first time since Biden has taken office.

HARLOW: It's also interesting that Biden comes into this with the momentum from the midterms, right? And Xi comes into this with such a tight grip on power, right? And so you've got these two leaders feeling pretty powerful with very different views on really significant things coming face-to-face.

LEMON: Well, the question is, is that line of communication that Biden is touting there, if it's actually real or not because they don't talk very often. And it has been suggested by at least one person on this program that perhaps that they should speak --

HARLOW: Oh, the two-week thing. Yes.

LEMON: Yes, that they should speak every two weeks so that they could actually get something done.

But is it - is it real because, Kaitlan, as you and I have spoken about, climate change is a huge issue for both men, being, you know, two of the largest countries in the world and two of the largest emitters of pollution in the world, and if they can -- can they really talk about these things and they don't actually discuss them. And so how -- what does that mean for lines of communication? How real is that?

COLLINS: Yes. Well, and that's a big one that has such major implications. They should be talking about it. But all of these other issues are clouding that, Taiwan, technology, Ukraine.

LEMON: Taiwan. Right.

COLLINS: All of these basically different visions of what the world order should look like. And Xi -- and after he got that control, he is one of the most powerful Chinese presidents we've seen in our lifetimes. He talked about -- he had a very different world view of what -- the threat he sees from the United States.

HARLOW: Oh, yes.

COLLINS: And that's been a big question of, you know, he's not -- they don't think -- expect he's going to make any crazy headlines, but these officials in the United States are scrutinizing what he has said in these meetings so closely.

HARLOW: Yes.

COLLINS: Small differences that are really big implications if you talk to U.S. officials.

LEMON: And really about sharing space in the world as we heard just a little while ago. Was it David Sanger who was on?

HARLOW: Yes.

LEMON: From -- who wrote an op-ed about this or wrote an article about it saying this is really about sharing space and whether they can share power.

[09:00:02]

HARLOW: And, you know, as Tom Freidman was talking about Friday, autocracy versus, you know, democracy.

LEMON: Democracy. Yes.

HARLOW: Right?

COLLINS: Yes.

LEMON: Which we have been -- which has been on the ballot.

HARLOW: There you go.

COLLINS: And, of course --

LEMON: As we just spoke with the Senate majority leader. COLLINS: One thing looming over this is this is the G20 summit. All these world leaders are gathered in Bali. Putin was initially supposed to be there.

HARLOW: That's right.

LEMON: Exactly.

COLLINS: He dropped out. He didn't go. It took some of the drama out of this meeting, but it's - but it's really interesting.

HARLOW: OK.

LEMON: We're going to continue to follow, of course, live here on CNN.

We thank you for watching CNN this morning. We hoped that we would get you to the president and hear a little bit of it, but you will - you will get it. You won't miss it.

Thanks for joining us. We'll see you tomorrow morning.

CNN's special coverage continues right now.

[09:00:00]