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CNN This Morning

Names of Victims, Heroes Released in Colorado Club Shooting; Nightclub Shooting Suspect Faces Murder, Hate Crime Charges; Shortage of Key Medicines as Flu, RSV Surge Grips Nation; Study: 'Good' Cholesterol is Less Beneficial Depending on Race; U.S. Journalist Detained in Qatar for Wearing Rainbow Shirt. Aired 6-6:30a ET

Aired November 22, 2022 - 06:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, everyone. Getting closer and closer to Thanksgiving day. It is Tuesday, November 22. We're so glad that you could join us.

[06:00:20]

And we're -- need to start out by telling you we have these new details about the suspected gunman and the five victims that he killed at an LGBTQ nightclub in Colorado Springs. The charges he is facing this morning.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Also, medicine shortage across the country as RSV infections and the flu both surge at the same time. Patients are now reporting problems getting the drugs they need.

Also this.

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KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: Iran's soccer team, silent during the national anthem at the World Cup. We'll have more on the acts of defiance that we are seeing happening in Qatar. We'll take you there live to give you an update on the ground.

LEMON: It is a busy Tuesday here. But first, we're going to start with the Army veteran who tackled the gunman inside that nightclub. He says that he thought he was -- he was done with war until it came back to him right here on U.S. soil.

His name is Richard Fierro. He used his military training to take down the shooter and save lives. A drag performer used her heels to help him. You're going to hear from Richard live in this program in just a short time away.

Also this morning, we're learning the names of the five souls taken too soon, and who they were, and the people who loved them.

Rosa Flores, live for CNN this morning in Colorado Springs.

Rosa, good morning to you. What are the new details you're learning?

ROSA FLORES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Don.

I want to share the names of the five victims, this all according to police.

The names are Raymond Green Vance. According to his family, he's described as being kind, and gifted and willing to go out of his way for anyone.

Kelly Loving. Her sister Tiffany (ph) says that her sister was just a good person, loving, caring and sweet.

Ashely Paugh. Her husband saying that her -- that his wife just had a huge heart and that she worked at a nonprofit that helps foster children find homes.

Daniel Aston, his family saying that he moved to Colorado Springs to be closer to his family.

And Derrick Rump. I talked to a survivor, Ed Sanders, who says that Derrick would give him a ride home when he couldn't get an Uber, just to make sure that he got home safe.

And we're also learning the names of the heroes who authorities say saved countless lives.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RICHARD FIERRO, TOOK DOWN GUNMAN IN CLUB Q SHOOTING: Everybody in that building experienced combat that night, not to their own accord, but because they were forced to.

FLORES (voice-over): Former Army Major Richard Fierro served four tours in combat zones overseas. He tackled the gunman and, with the help of another young man and a drag performer, was able to disarm and disable the shooter.

FIERRO: I just started wailing away with his gun. And then I told the kid in front of me, "Kick him. Keep kicking him."

I was doing what I did -- I do down-range, you know? I trained -- I trained for this. I don't want to ever do this.

This kid that was helping me was kicking another human in the head. And I told him to do it. I don't know what to do, you know. There was a beautiful -- one of the performers was walking by when the kid was getting tired of kicking. And she -- she helped him, kicked him with the high-heels that she had on.

FLORES (voice-over): Fierro was at the club with friends: his wife, his daughter, and daughter's boyfriend, Raymond Vance, who was killed that night. FIERRO: I lost my kid's boyfriend. I tried. I tried for everybody in

there. I still feel bad that there's five people -- there's five people that didn't go home. And this (EXPLETIVE DELETED), this guy, I told him while I was hitting him, I said, "I'm going to kill you, man, because you tried to kill my friends. My family was in there."

FLORES (voice-over): Survivor Barrett Hudson tells CNN he sustained seven gunshot wounds during the shooting.

BARRETT HUDSON, CLUB Q SHOOTING SURVIVOR: I got shot. I knew I got shot a few times. I fell down. He proceeded to shoot me. I got back up. I made it out of the back of the club. I'd been shot seven times, or seven times by now.

I got really, really lucky. And I -- I don't know why I'm still here.

FLORES (voice-over): CNN has obtained a Facebook livestream that appears to show a standoff with police during his June 2021 arrest.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You see that right there? (EXPLETIVE DELETED) got their (EXPLETIVE DELETED) rifles out.

FLORES (voice-over): He was arrested for felony menacing and first- degree kidnapping, according to a news release at the time, after his mother says he threatened her with a homemade bomb and other weapons.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

[06:05:00]

FLORES (on camera): According to the district attorney, the suspect has not been formally charged, but he is being held without bond, pending multiple possible charges.

Now, those possible charges include possibly five counts of first- degree murder and five counts of the hate crime statute here in Colorado.

Now, the suspect is still in the hospital. And authorities are tight- lipped about his condition -- Don.

LEMON: Rosa Flores joining us from Colorado Springs. Thank you, Rosa.

COLLINS: All right. In Colorado, hate crimes are referred to as bias- motivated crimes. They're defined as "the intent to intimidate or harass another person, in whole or in part, because of that person's actual or perceived race, color, religion, ancestry, national origin, physical or mental disability, or their sexual orientation."

Before 2021, Colorado had prosecutors -- prosecutors had to prove that a defendant's acts had been motivated solely by hate. But now the law requires them to establish only that bias was a factor in the case, not the sole motivation.

For perspective on this, let's bring in criminal defense attorney and former federal prosecutor Katie Cherkasky. She has prosecuted hate crime cases. So you are the perfect guest to talk to us about this, because that's been a big part of this conversation, is what -- if this is going to be, potentially, an avenue for them to go down.

And I know two things that stick out. One, that this is, obviously, a club that caters to the LGBTQ community. There are only two of them in Colorado Springs, we were told yesterday by some of the guests.

And, of course, this attack came on the Transgender Remembrance Day to talk about people who had been killed. And so do those two factors -- how much do they weigh on what prosecutors will be looking at here?

KATIE CHERKASKY, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, that's a very good point. When you're talking about hate crimes or bias crimes, as in Colorado, the prosecutors are going to be needing to look at a lot of circumstantial evidence to prove the motivations behind the attack.

Because it's one thing to have victims who are part of a marginalized group, but to prove that that was the reason and the drive, or at least in part of the drive, behind the crime, that's what you're looking at.

So of course, the location of the crime, the day of the crime. Any sort of past statements, any future statements that are made by the suspect in this case are all going to play into whether they can prove that motivation.

And as you mentioned, they don't have to prove that that was the only motivating factor, but it has to be, at least in part, something that can be shown primarily through circumstantial evidence.

Here, I don't think we've heard a lot of statements from the alleged shooter relating to the motivation behind this. But there are those factors you mentioned. Certainly, that will be a good starting point under that statute.

HARLOW: I mean, I think that's really key, right? Because you've noted that you don't meet the threshold for a hate crime, successful prosecution by just noting that someone is a member of a protected class, as all of these victims were, right?

CHERKASKY: Right.

HARLOW: As we understand. But you need to show that they're motivated. And, as far as we know from the Colorado Springs police chief, the suspect hasn't made any statements, despite their repeated attempts.

How do you do that in court? How do you win on that in court, if he doesn't talk?

CHERKASKY: Well, we're not talking just about statements that are sworn to law enforcement. But any statements that he's ever made --

HARLOW: In the past.

CHERKASKY: -- to social media, whether it's friends or family. If you remember in the Arbery case, there was quite a lot of evidence in the federal trial about these past statements that were -- that were racist and showed their -- their racist intent.

HARLOW: Ahmaud Arbery in Georgia. Yes.

CHERKASKY: So any statements whatsoever, not just after the arrest but any at all that could show the motivation behind this, is really what you're going to be looking at in terms of that enhancement for the charge.

But I think primarily here, the big question is going to be proving up the murder charges. Because significantly, as far as sentence is concerned, that's really going to get you the farthest.

LEMON: Yes. You just -- you took the words right out of my mouth. He's -- he will, no doubt, be convicted on murder charges. But these are enhanced charges on top of those charges, right?

And -- but it's also important to -- when you're talking about these hate crime charges, to send a message to people.

CHERKASKY: Absolutely. And I think that is a big motivation why these legislatures put the hate crime statutes on the books.

Because practically speaking, Colorado has a life without parole, maximum sentence for a murder charge. So, the enhancement of a hate crime isn't going to practically expand anything. Colorado repealed their death penalty a couple of years ago.

So in terms of the ultimate outcome here, if he is, in fact, convicted of one or more of the murder charges, then the outcome of the hate crime isn't going to change that sentence. But it does send a message that I think is incredibly important, that obviously, these cases are handled especially carefully, with protected groups like that.

COLLINS: Something that everybody is watching closely. Thank you for bringing your experience on to help us break down this conversation.

CHERKASKY: Thank you.

COLLINS: It's really important.

Ahead, we are going to speak to the veteran who took down the gunman. A captivating interview. He will join CNN THIS MORNING live.

And in a few moments we're going to talk about the recent violent and political attacks against the LGBTQ community with "L.A. Times" op-ed columnist L.Z. Granderson.

HARLOW: Well, we've now learned that, on election day in Arizona, a top elections official had to go into hiding for his own safety.

[06:10:04]

A spokesman for Maricopa County Board of Supervisors Chairman Bill Gates confirmed to CNN that Gates was moved to an undisclosed location because of threats on social media.

We're told he still has increased security today.

Gates -- he's a face you've seen a lot on this network -- is a Republican who publicly pushed back on claims by election-denying Republican candidates like Kari Lake that there were issues with how they were conducting the election.

Maricopa County officials report that there was an increase in threats against election workers and officials around the election this year and the primary earlier this year.

We should note Maricopa is the most populous county in Arizona and became the focus of conspiracy theorists, you'll remember, after the 2020 election.

Ahead this morning, we'll speak about that and a lot more with Arizona's governor-elect, Katie Hobbs.

LEMON: Rising cases of respiratory illness in children, on top of flu season, are overwhelming hospitals all across the country and emptying shelves at pharmacies. The shortage of key medicines to treat common flu, ear infection, and sore throat taking a huge toll here.

Our medical correspondent, Dr. Tara Narula, joins us now to talk about this. So what -- Is this -- good morning to you. Is this a supply chain shortage? What drugs are we seeing here that are -- that are in short supply?

DR. TARA NARULA, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: I feel like we keep talking about shortages --

HARLOW: Yes.

NARULA: -- for the past couple of years. Whether it's, you know, baby formula. Last week it was Adderall.

And this week, it is drugs like Tamiflu, which we use to treat the flu; Amoxicillin, which is a very common antibiotic; and also things like Albuterol, which we use in inhalers for people who have asthma and reactive airway disease.

We do think that this is really more of a demand issue, as opposed to a supply. It's more spot shortages that we think will hopefully resolve in the next couple of months as we see cases go down for the winter season, hopefully.

But it is really this combination, unprecedented, of the RSV, the flu and the COVID all at the same time, that's really causing this.

And a lot of times we see, for example, antibiotics being used when they shouldn't be. So, you know, the reflex is to give an antibiotic, even though it may not be a bacterial illness.

But definitely -- yes.

HARLOW: Go ahead, Kaitlan. COLLINS: Well, I just going to say, this is an issue for parents,

because I was reading that a lot of them are having to teach their children earlier than they maybe naturally would to take -- to swallow pills, because there's a shortage of the liquid amoxicillin.

NARULA: Correct. And so the important point, though, is for parents not to panic. The FDA is actually advising pharmacies, for example, how to take the pill form and reformulate it into the liquid form.

There are other antibiotics available. You know, amoxicillin isn't the only one. They may be more broad-spectrum, which isn't always the best, more costly and potentially have different side effects.

But there are alternatives. This isn't a situation where this is the only drug that can be given if a patient needs it.

Also, there may be other pharmacies that parents or patients can go to to get the drug that they need. It may be a further drive, but they can hopefully get it.

And finally, I think the important point is to test, test, test. Because there are tests available for RSV, for the flu and for COVID. And so if you identify that, you're definitely not going to want to give an antibiotic and contribute to the issue of shortage.

HARLOW: There's some other news we want to get you on while you're here. We all hear about cholesterol is bad, but there's the good cholesterol. And now there's something new that the good cholesterol may not be as good as we thought?

NARULA: Right. So we talk a lot --

HARLOW: Come on!

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: Our morning hash-brown run is not good for us?

NARULA: I know. Cholesterol is so confusing. There's the good cholesterol, the bad cholesterol.

And yes, for many, many years, actually since the 1970s, there was a big study, the Framingham study, that told us, well, actually, high HDL, or good cholesterol, may be associated with lower risks. And we've sort of been operating under this mantra.

So many people, for example, come into my office and say, Well, I have good cholesterol. So I don't have to worry about anything else.

And I think this study really points to the fact that we can't just look at the good cholesterol. In fact, in this study, good cholesterol did not necessarily predict lower risk for either whites or blacks.

But the interesting finding, as well, was that low HDL was predictive only for white people for increased risk of coronary heart disease but not for black individuals. And so again, it really points -- we talk about this a lot -- to the

need for race-specific, ethnic-specific research for us to understand this and not to group everybody together. It is not a one-size-fits- all approach in this.

LEMON: Let's say the part again about blacks versus whites in this.

NARULA: So if you have low HDL, which is the protective one --

LEMON: Right.

NARULA: -- typically, we say that might be associated with increased risk. But this study found it was only the case for whites. Actually, for blacks who have low HDL, there was no increased risk.

LEMON: OK.

HARLOW: OK. I was going to ask you to repeat the same thing. Thank you.

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HARLOW: It's 6:14 in the morning. Thank you, Doctor.

LEMON: Thank you.

HARLOW: Good to have you on.

COLLINS: Thanks.

HARLOW: Athletes and fans sending a message at the World Cup in Qatar. Why our next guest was detained before one of the matches.

COLLINS: And CNN has obtained intercepted calls from a Russian soldier that illustrates the desperation among Putin's forces.

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): You don't know what to expect here.

[06:15:00]

Sometimes, there's friendly fire, and idiots shoot at us, because they don't see our coordinates.

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Russa (ph), Sargant, Pulisic on the run! Pulisic has way up (ph). Pulisic drives it in. Team Wear (ph)!

(END VIDEO CLIP) COLLINS: An early celebration for Team USA at the World Cup. But the men's team ended in a 1-1 draw with Wales. The U.S. will play England on Friday.

But what might be more interesting than what's happening on the field is what's happening off of it.

The players on the Iranian national team decided not to sing their country's national anthem and instead stood in silence before their match against England. This was widely understood to be a gesture of support for those anti-regime protests that you are seeing happening over women's rights in the streets of Iran in recent months.

Some fans in the stadium held up signs supporting the cause of women's rights and freedom.

Players for England took a knee before their kickoff against Iran, a gesture of inclusion, as well.

[06:20:05]

Also, with homosexually illegal and punishable with prison in the host country of Qatar, the team captains of several countries say they will not be wearing the rainbow-colored "one love" arm bands, as they had intended after FIFA threatened to give players yellow cards just for doing so.

After receiving two yellow cards, of course, a player will face a one- match suspension.

FIFA's president said in response, quote, "I think for what we Europeans have been doing in the last 3,000 years around the world, we should be apologizing for next -- the next 3,000 years before starting to give moral lessons to people. But this moral lesson giving, one- sided, it's just hypocrisy."

HARLOW: So let's talk about all of this with Grant Wahl. He is a journalist and founder of GrantWahl.com. And he was detained for half an hour yesterday before the U.S.-Wales game for just trying to enter the stadium wearing a shirt with a rainbow on it.

Grant, thanks very much for being here. I'm sorry that happened to you. And I think everyone wants to know what you went through. And I wonder what you make of what, you know, Kaitlan just read from the head of FIFA, saying this is just hypocrisy.

GRANT WAHL, JOURNALIST: You know, I think the FIFA head, president Gianni Infantino, actually makes a decent point when he talks about 3,000 years of Europeans doing bad things to the rest of the world. And I think even the U.S., in the last couple of hundred years, has a few things like that in its history.

But unfortunately, the FIFA president, what he took that to mean, I thought, was really outrageous, actually, that just because of that, human rights violations in authoritarian countries like here in Qatar -- the outlying of homosexuality, the treatment of migrant workers, all of that -- that it's not possible, according to the FIFA president, to criticize that, which I think is just wrong.

In terms of my situation before the U.S. game, I was told by FIFA, as I said publicly and also by U.S. Soccer, that wearing a rainbow shirt, having a rainbow flag would not be a problem at all here in Qatar. FIFA was going to make sure that that was not an issue for fans, for media, for any visitors.

I showed up at the stadium last night, and instantly, I was pushed aside by the security guards at the media entrance, and I was told explicitly, You need to take off your shirt. That's a political statement, and you cannot enter because of that.

I refused to take off my shirt. I did get a tweet off, thankfully, about it. I wasn't really planning on putting out publicly that I was wearing the shirt until I was detained.

They forcibly took my phone out of my hands for 30 minutes. They made me stand in front of a CCTV camera. They continued to try to get me to take off my shirt. They stood above me as I sat and angrily yelled at me.

Only after about 30 minutes did a commander come down and let me through, wearing my shirt. And he apologized, as did FIFA.

LEMON: Are you going to do it again?

WAHL: I probably will. I've got my shirt. And I have no fear here about any of this.

It's been a weird week. I mean, literally, in the accreditation line, when I got here, I took a photo, a very innocuous photo, of the World Cup slogan on the wall. There are no signs preventing pictures. And a security guard came over and said, No pictures, and demanded that I delete the photo from my phone.

So it's that kind of situation here in Qatar.

COLLINS: And Grant, what is it like as you had been pulled aside? You're in front of this CCTV. They're harassing you over what your shirt -- what shirt you were wearing. What were people around you -- how were they responding?

WAHL: A friend of mine from "The New York Times" came over and tried to help and got detained, as well, for a little bit.

You know, I was thinking the entire time, like if I'm being treated this way during the World Cup, when the attention of the world is on Qatar, and I'm an American who has a pretty prominent media following, imagine how gay people in Qatar, outside of World Cups, must feel and what they must endure. And that's a lot to think about.

LEMON: Yes. Here's the thing that I've sort of been thinking about a lot over the last couple days since this happened, Grant. It's the importance of having allies. As you know, during the civil rights movement, you know, numbers -- there were only so many African- Americans in the country who could stand up for civil rights. They needed whites to join in. So you needed a majority of people, at least -- well, bigger numbers.

And it's the same thing when it comes to LGBTQ issues. It's not just for the gay people, especially in those countries, who stand up for themselves. Because they could face death, right? They can face imprisonment. It's important for allies like you to stand up. Talk to us about that, please.

WAHL: It's really important to me, you know, and it's not required by any stretch of the imagination. I've got family members who are gay. I've got friends who are gay. I've got journalist friends who are gay who are here in Qatar.

[06:25:14]

But you don't need that to -- to be supportive, to -- to be an ally. And so I was thinking about all those people yesterday. I was thinking about Colorado Springs. I was thinking about all sorts of stuff.

And if I have to be detained for 30 minutes, it's kind of annoying. But it's not an issue for me. And so I was glad to at least help out a little bit.

LEMON: Yes.

COLLINS: It's really well said, Grant.

LEMON: Yes. Thank you, Grant.

COLLINS: Thank you so much.

LEMON: Appreciate it. Be well.

WAHL: Thank you.

LEMON: Be safe, OK? And thank you for standing by.

WAHL: OK.

LEMON: Thanks so much.

HARLOW: And if he wears it again today, obviously --

LEMON: Yes.

HARLOW: -- sending an important message. What will happen?

LEMON: Yes. Yes. And we'll have him back, if he'll come back.

HARLOW: Yes, we will.

All right. Georgia Senate candidate Herschel Walker has released a new ad targeting the LGBTQ community, and this is just days after the shooting in Colorado. L.Z. Granderson is here to talk about it with us.

COLLINS: And the first pictures of the comedian Jay Leno after he suffered burns from a car fire, now released from a hospital.

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