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CNN This Morning

Police Say, Killings of Four Students May Not Have Been Targeted Attack; CNN Speaks to Chinese Protester in Disguise; Elon Musk Says Feud with Apple Over After Baseless Claims. Aired 7-7:30a ET

Aired December 01, 2022 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[07:00:00]

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Also, police in Idaho backtracking weeks after the murder of four college students. First, they said it looked like the students were targeted. Now, they are clarifying their story.

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: Also this morning, Elon Musk lured Republicans into a fight with Apple? If he is, it appears to be working.

First this morning, though, it has been more than two weeks since four Idaho college students were found murdered. Police in the college town of Moscow, Idaho, as Poppy was saying, have said all along that they believe this was a targeted attack. Now, they're clarifying that statement, though, creating a little bit of confusion -- a lot of confusion, actually, as students and residents have held a candle light memorial service last night, you can see all the people who were there, as police were talking as this was going on about a miscommunication they had with the county prosecutor's office.

CNN's Veronica Miracle is live this morning near Moscow, Idaho. And, Veronica, this has been the big question that has been plaguing this, which is what police are saying, what they aren't saying and what we still do not know about what happened here.

VERONICA MIRACLE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Kaitlan. And a lot of this confusion in the last 12 hours seems to be around the notion that two or one of the specific roommates were specifically targeted.

I'm going to read just part of their statement that they released last night. Detectives do not currently know if the residents or any occupants were specifically targeted but continue to investigate.

Police haven't answered our questions about this confusion, kind of the going back and forth. But I think here in the community, all that really matters is that a suspect still hasn't been arrested.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MIRACLE (voice over): The unsolved fatal stabbing deaths of four University of Idaho students leaves the Moscow community with grave uncertainty and little information more than two weeks after the attack. STEVE GONCALVES, KAYLEE GONCALVES' DAD: You're just going to have to love each other. You guys are just going to have to hug each other.

MIRACLE: The university held a vigil Wednesday where the families spoke about their loss.

BEN MOGEN, MADISON MOGEN'S FATHER: She was such a happy -- just such a great kid, a perfect little baby, and so just smart and funny and beautiful.

STACY CHAPIN, ETHAN CHAPIN'S MOM: But that's the most important message that we have for you and your families, is to make sure that you spend as much time as possible with those people because time is precious and it's something you can't get back.

MIRACLE: Victims Kaylee Goncalves and Madison Mogen were childhood friends. Goncalves' dad spoke about how they met.

GONCALVES: At sixth grade, they found each other, and every day they did homework together, they came to our house together, they shared everything. And in the end they died together in the same room and the same bed. And it's a shame and it hurts with the beauty of the two always being together something that will -- it comforts us, it lets us know they were with their best friends in the whole world.

MIRACLE: A spokesperson for the Moscow Police Department told Fox News they are starting to receive forensic test results related to the investigation. This comes as police are now clarifying previous statements made by the Latah County Prosecutor's Office that said the murders were targeted and isolated. It's unclear why the police's latest statements says detectives do not currently know if the victims were targeted as several previous on-the-record statements and on- camera comments have specifically cited this incident as a targeted attack.

Investigators have retraced the victims' whereabouts on the night of the murder and combed through the off-campus house where the four lived in, but still have not named a suspect. On Tuesday, authorities removed cars from the crime scene. The Idaho State Police has provided heightened security for the campus and the community given the mounting fears a murderer is still at large.

OMAYA SIMLER, STUDENT, UNIVERSITY OF IDAHO: I thought it would make me feel safer but it doesn't because it just reminds me that there's still someone out there.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MIRACLE (on camera): Yes. Certainly here in the community, everywhere you go, there is an increased security presence, Idaho State Police everywhere just trying to make the community feel safe. Kaitlan?

COLLINS: Yes, you can see why they don't. Veronica, thank you for that report.

DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: Let's discuss now. I want to bring in CNN's Chief Law Enforcement and Intelligence Analyst Mr. John Miller. Good morning to you.

JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT AND INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: Good morning, Don.

LEMON: This story is fascinating in the sense that this is a small town, right, and they don't have anyone yet -- initially, they said that they didn't think it was a threat to the public, now they're saying it possibly is a threat to the public. What do you make of all this?

MILLER: Well, I think they're getting tied up in semantics, which is a symptom of not having a break in the case that they can talk about that's newsworthy. So, people are going back, trying to interpret statements word by word.

I think what you have here is you're now going into the third week of the case. That means there's been enough time for DNA results and other things to come back. Of course, what they're looking for there is who are the known contributors, the victims and people who lived in the house, where is that unknown contributor.

[07:05:01]

They take the unknown DNA. They put it in the CODIS system with the FBI. That gives them two things, one, everybody who was arrested with a felony who supplied DNA. So, that's a good start. Is there an unknown contributor that rings in CODIS? But second, it gives them all the DNA that's been in the system that was recovered at other crime scenes that isn't identified. So, if it doesn't lead them to a person, it can lead them to another crime scene. So, all those wheels are turning now, and those clues are going to be coming in and run down.

COLLINS: So, they have said nothing about a suspect. Does that mean they don't know anything about a suspect? Does that mean they're just not ready to say it yet?

MILLER: So, that's a great question. Yesterday, they said, we have not named a suspect to clarify, but that doesn't mean there hasn't been a suspect. They have been through a handful of suspects that have risen and fallen as their alibis have checked out, and they'll go through more.

HARLOW: But are the kids safe?

MILLER: So --

HARLOW: All those college students.

MILLERES: So, let's talk about yes, but no. I mean, there's an increased police presence. The state police is patrolling the campus and the town, along with local authorities. But until we know the who and the what and the why, it's hard to say this targeted discussion. Targeted or not targeted has some meaning. Whoever went to that house came there deliberately, it appears with the intent to kill everyone inside, armed with a particular weapon that they probably brought for that particular purpose. Were they targeting the house, were they targeting an individual inside, or was it always just going to be everybody? That's what they're struggling in the why department.

So, the more random this is, if it's a drifter who said, I'm going in that house to kill everybody, the less everybody is safe. If it's something to do with one or more of those people, then it's contained. But until they either know that answer or tell us that answer, it's hard to assure everybody everything is safe.

COLLINS: Yes, no one has been arrested.

LEMON: And we're left to wonder, yes. Thank you very much, John Miller, I appreciate it.

HARLOW: This morning, the Biden administration is considering dramatically expanding the U.S. military training provided to Ukrainian forces, and this proposal includes training much larger groups of Ukrainian soldiers in more sophisticated battlefield tactics.

Let's go to our Katie Bo Lillis who has more on this reporting. We hear a lot about U.S. training Ukrainian forces, but it seems like this time is different. How so?

KATIE BO LILLIS, CNN REPORTER: Yes, Poppy. This is potentially a pretty significant expansion of both the number of Ukrainians that the United States is training and the kind of training that they're providing. Up until now, the U.S. has trained a few thousand Ukrainian troops mostly in small groups and mostly on how to use specific weapons systems.

Under this new proposal that the Biden administration is considering, the United States would train up to 2,400 Ukrainian soldiers a month in larger groups on how to perform more sophisticated battlefield maneuvers, what's known in the military as combined arms training.

So, what does that mean? It means the United States would be potentially training Ukraine to better integrate their infantry maneuvers with their artillery support, to better perform command and control and logistics as part of larger, more complex military operations.

Now, Poppy, it is important to note that this proposal is still in interagency review, it hasn't been approved yet, but we are told by our sources that this is a pretty serious consideration as the Biden administration looks towards how to best set up Ukraine for success in this fight against Russia in the long run.

HARLOW: Yes, for sure. Great reporting, Katie Bo Lillis, thank you.

LILLIS: Thanks, Poppy.

COLLINS: All right. This week, we have been talking about those unprecedented protests that you have seen erupting across China, some of them calling for the president, Xi Jinping, to step down. That had to do with those severe COVID restrictions that were driving a lot of this. They angered the nation after one apartment fire.

But now there's been a sweeping crackdown on the demonstrators that is adding to the misery, to the frustration that we have seen.

CNN's Selina Wang is live in Beijing this morning. And, Selina, what I find so amazing about this is that you spoke to one of those protesters. Obviously, they wanted to be disguised because the authorities have been going to these people's homes, questioning them, talking to them about this. What did this person have to tell you?

SELINA WANG, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Kaitlan, it is so hard to get anybody to speak on camera in China, let alone on a sensitive topic like this. And this person was at the same protest I reported from and they explained to me that it was such an incredible, cathartic, emotional release for people after years of this zero-COVID policy. It was a way to release that pent up anger. And this was the protester's explanation for why so many people were willing to put their lives on the line just to speak out.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I felt like I lost control of my life because of this COVID policy. We are limited physically and now we're limited mentally.

[07:10:01]

We are forbidden to express our ideas.

For me, first things first, I want the zero-COVID policy gone, and if we have more freedom of speech and freedom of press, of course, that would be great.

WANG: What do you think you guys achieved by participating in that protest?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If you don't demonstrate, if you don't show them your voice, your idea, they will never know. Silence will not protect you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WANG: You'll notice that we blurred the person's face. I also did this interview in a car in order to avoid tracking from authorities because police, they have been calling and visiting the homes of some protesters, even randomly stopping some people on the streets of Shanghai to check their phones. Protesters say police are looking for VPNs needed to use banned apps, like Twitter or Telegram, which some of these protesters have been using to communicate.

Police have also been flooding key protest sites, so protesters are finding it very hard to find a way to continue to gather.

COLLINS: What about not just gathering but also even talking, because there's so much censorship in China? How do people communicate about what's going on in real-time on the ground?

WANG: Yes. Well, look, the goal of authorities is to make it as if none of this ever happened. We've seen censorship go into overdrive to scrub any evidence of these protests online. But this protester said, look, that's to be expected of the communist party and that's why so many people, these demonstrators were holding up these white pieces of paper. Take a listen to what this person has to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That white piece of paper actually represents the censorship and all the deleted contents. That white paper is everything that we want to say. And they cannot arrest us for just holding a white paper.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WANG: A lot of the protesters in Beijing, like this person, were young but they were still born before Facebook, Google and YouTube were banned in China. So, despite the propaganda and what this person called, quote, brainwashing, they remember what a more open China looked like.

But most of them, they do realize it is too dangerous and unrealistic to call for Xi Jinping to step down. But at the very least, what they want is their old lives back, when their lives weren't controlled by these lockdowns, quarantines and mass testing, Kaitlan.

COLLINS: Yes. That blank sheet of paper says so much. Selina Wang, thank you.

LEMON: So, it appears Twitter's new owner, Elon Musk, has settled his dispute with Apple and that it was all built on a conspiracy. Musk sharing that he spoke with Apple CEO Tim Cook saying this, good conversation. Among other things, we resolved the misunderstanding about Twitter potentially being removed from the App Store. Tim was clear that Apple never considered doing so.

That is a far different tune than Musk had been singing earlier this week when, in a flurry of tweets, he claimed that the company threatened to pull Twitter from its App Store and even questioned Apple's commitment to free speech. The thing is Republicans started to fall in line around those attacks. Watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. RON DESANTIS (R-FL): He's providing free speech. And so if Apple responds to that by nuking them from the App Store, I think that would be a huge, huge mistake and it would be a really raw exercise of monopolistic power that I think would merit a response from the United States Congress.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Ohio Senator-elect J.D. Vance echoed that, calling it a monopoly power that no civilized country should allow. And then there is Senator Tom Cotton calling a potential move ill-advised. And Senator Mike Lee suggested it calls for legislation, saying it's unacceptable. Colorado Congressman Ken Buck took that idea a step further, suggesting a timeframe for legislative action tweeting this. This is why we need to end the App Store duopoly before the end of this year. No one should have this kind of market power. Again, by Musk's own admission, it was never a thing.

HARLOW: It is not just Republican leadership taking Apple to task this morning, Meta CEO Mark Zuckerberg has been doing it for a long time. And yesterday, he spoke out again against the company's policies around the App Store. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARK ZUCKERBERG, CEO, META PLATFORMS INC.: Apple has sort of singled themselves out as the only company that is trying to control -- like unilaterally what apps get on a device. And I don't think that's a sustainable or good place to be.

It is problematic for one company to be able control what kind of app experiences get on the device.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: All right. Let's bring in Sara Fischer, CNN Media Analyst and Media Reporter at Axios. Sara, it's great to have you. I have so many thoughts on this. I'm sure Zuckerberg loves this moment because the move that Apple made has really impacted them. But you -- it's not just them. I thought it was interesting, Spotify's CEO Daniel Ek came out yesterday and said the same thing, I think it's problematic one company controls what happens on a device here.

[07:15:00]

But the free speech argument seems to be missing the point. This isn't government quashing speech. This is a private company making a decision about something they think might violate their rules.

SARA FISCHER, CNN MEDIA ANALYST: That's exactly right. And I think part of the kerfuffle between Elon Musk and Apple is that Apple has so many different apps that are coming through to its app store. It probably sends boiler plate type of emails out to different developers just reminding them, hey, here are our policies, you have to adhere to them, or else you risk being removed.

It makes sense that a company like Apple would do that because they want to do what's best for the consumer. And if they have just any app that potentially has security concerns or really bad content moderation problems, things like illegal content or child pornography, they're going to want to make sure that's not part of their App Store.

And so I think this is less of a free speech issue as much as it is just a miscommunication and misunderstanding between Musk and Apple.

HARLOW: I just have a one quick follow-up. Is that -- so all these -- DeSantis made it, a lot of Republican lawmakers, some Democrats keep making this free speech argument. Is that because it's politically convenient and they think it resonates? It just seems to be totally missing the point. FISCHER: I think so. I also think that cracking down on big tech is a politically convenient issue. And for a long time, we saw these lawmakers going after Meta, saying that Meta, as well as Twitter, was censoring Republicans. Now, they're going after Apple, saying that Apple is doing its job to censor or a potential -- you know, an app that's governed by somebody who now says that they're a Republican. And so I do think that this is very politically convenient.

There's also this other weird issue in that Apple has ties to China, and right now, with the protests that are happening in China, some of those lawmakers that Don listed out are also using this fight as an opportunity to speak out about Apple's dominance there. So, you saw Ron DeSantis not only criticizing Apple for these App Store policies but also using this moment where you have a lot momentum against the Apple fight to target Apple for China, which I thought was very interesting.

COLLINS: And also because this is such an issue on Capitol Hill, which is why this matters. It's not just Ron DeSantis tweeting about it. This is actually an issue that Tim Cook has to deal with on Capitol Hill when it comes to these anti-trust things. And Mark Zuckerberg weighing in on this and basically agreeing with Elon Musk is what stood out to me.

And I guess the question is, do they have a point when they're talking about the fees that the App Store and Apple Store takes from them?

FISCHER: This is hotly debated. Poppy mentioned that Spotify weighed in yesterday. Epic Games has a lawsuit against Apple about this. Essentially, if you were to compare Apple's policies to some of the other big tech companies, let's say Google and its Play Store, or maybe even Microsoft and Windows, they're very different. Google takes a smaller cut of fees that are transacted within the Google Play Store than Apple does.

The other sort of big question here is that when it comes to Apple, Apple argues this is good for the consumer that we take the fee. I think a lot of people are wondering is that actually true. And to your point, Tim Cook, there are reports that he was on Capitol Hill trying to debate this and weigh this out. I don't think this argument is going to go anywhere any time soon. I think it's going to continue put a lot more pressure on Apple for the foreseeable future.

LEMON: I've got to ask you. I was looking, Sara, quickly, about the list of all the folks who have left. But I know the latest celebrity or big name to leave is Jim Carrey.

HARLOW: To leave Twitter?

LEMON: To leave Twitter, as Jim Carrey announcing this week that he's leaving. Whoopi Goldberg left. And there are a couple of other big names who have left. Is this a fad or is it a trend?

FISCHER: This always comes in waves. Ariana Grande left Twitter. She came back to Twitter at that time. She said it was toxic and that it's not toxic. I do think you're going to have a lot more people in this wave because of Elon Musk is such a polarizing person. But I don't think that this is necessarily the rule, I think this is more the exception.

If you even take a look, third party stats have said that engagement with Twitter has increased, active users on Twitter has increased. I think high-profile celebrities might want to make a stand against what Elon Musk is doing and quit but I don't think that this is going to be a large scale trend where we see massive amounts of users drop away from the app.

LEMON: I was just finding my trusty producer. I was looking on my phone, Whoopi Goldberg, Trent Reznor, Shonda Rhimes and others, Jim Carrey. So, there you go.

HARLOW: Thank you, Sara, for making us smarter every morning.

COLLINS: All right. The U.S. women's team, national team, is cashing out on the men's team success in the 2022 World Cup. So far, they are earning more than they did actually in their last two tournaments, as you know, both of which they won.

Here with this morning's number is CNN's Senior Data Reporter Harry Enten. Harry, what is the payout looking like and what does this mean that they're cashing in on the success? Explain this to us.

HARRY ENTEN, CNN SENIOR DATA REPORTER: Yes. It could be somewhat confusing. So, let's sort of just dive into the numbers a little bit first to sort of explain what's going on. So, as you were hinting at, Kaitlan, look, this is the U.S. Women's National Team World Cup payout. For the U.S. men advancing to the round of 16 in 2022, the team has gotten $6.5 million. That will climb higher if the men advance even further. Now, compare that to the U.S. Women winning the tournament in 2019, the U.S. women's team won $4 million.

[07:20:03]

So, that can seem to be somewhat confusing.

So, what exactly is going on here? Well, there was a 2022 agreement which essentially said that the U.S. men's and women's team, the national teams would split the World Cup prize money evenly that either team won. So, they split the money evenly that either team won. This, of course, means that, yes, the women are getting money from the men's wins, but going forward, the men will also get money from the women's win.

So, why is it though that the women's team is getting more money from the men's wins than they did from their own despite the fact that the women have advanced further? Well, it all comes down to how much each of these World Cups are making. The simple fact of the matter is that the men's tournament makes more money. So, the men's 2020 World Cup total prize money is $440 million, compared to that women's 2019 World Cup prize money, it's just $30 million. So, essentially, the women get to split a larger part of a much larger pie. That is what's going on here.

COLLINS: But, Harry, the women's team has been more successful than the men's team.

ENTEN: It's been far more successful. So, just because something makes more money doesn't necessarily mean it's necessarily better, right? So, if we look, historically speaking, the women's World Cup titles, they have won four since 1991. The men's World Cup titles, they won zero, zero since 1930. So, yes, the men's tournament brings in more money but when it comes to the U.S., I make the argument that the women's team is far more responsible for the boost in popularity in soccer (ph).

LEMON: All right. I would make the exact opposite argument. I know everyone is going to hate me, but the men's team makes more money. If they make more money, then they should get more money. The men's team makes more money because people have more interest in them.

HARLOW: I have big issue with this, guys. WNBA, same thing is happening to them.

LEMON: There's also more interest in the NBA --

HARLOW: Hold on. Hold on. Hold on. Until big media companies, big tech companies, advertisers, invest and put them on their airwaves more and allow people --

LEMON: I understand what you're saying.

HARLOW: -- and allow people to see it more, gain more fans, then you will push towards more equality. But if they are blocked in so many ways and not invested in as much, they don't even have --

LEMON: I'm not sexist.

HARLOW: I know you're not.

LEMON: I grew up the only boy in a family of all women. I understand what you're saying. But not everybody, honestly, has the same skill. Not everybody has the same interest in the sport. I think the women's should be paid more, I do. But if the men --

COLLINS: But you're right that not everyone has the same skills, because women are better skilled.

LEMON: Well, the women are bettered skilled against other women. But if the women played the men, they wouldn't be wining the way that they win, all right?

HARLOW: Okay. I'm not going to even get into that argument.

LEMON: I'm just saying if the sport makes more money, that means there's more money --

COLLINS: But why does it make more money?

LEMON: Because people are more interested in them. When I go to a sports bar, guys, am I wrong -- you don't want to say anything. When I go to a sports bar, if there's a woman's basketball game on -- I'm just being honest.

HARLOW: Which is on air less.

LEMON: People say can you flip it to the guys, I don't want to watch this. I'm just telling you, I'm not saying it's right. I'm just speaking --

COLLINS: Harry, what were you going to say?

LEMON: And so you cannot make people become interested in something that they are not interested in.

HARLOW: But you have to show it to them. Go ahead, Harry.

ENTEN: You can't make people interested in things that they aren't, but look at the young women who are participating in high school soccer.

LEMON: They should get paid more money. I'm not saying they shouldn't get paid more money.

ENTEN: I won't get any -- but I would just say in terms of fan base here in the United States, the women's fan base has been climbing ever so higher, at least if you look at the participation numbers.

LEMON: You're making my point. So, I'm saying they should get paid more money. But if there's more interest in the men's and more money is coming in in the men's sports, those men are entitled to that more money.

COLLINS: But I don't think you're looking at the root of the issue, which is why are people more interested in men's sports because it's been historically --

LEMON: Because it's more interesting to watch.

ENTEN: Hold on. Hold on. Hold on. Come back.

LEMON: I'm kidding. That was a joke. I didn't mean that.

ENTEN: I will tell you, I find nothing more boring than watching the men's U.S. games. The women, if you watch the women, that's so exciting. If you go back to 1999, I remember I was coming back on the Jersey Turnpike when the women won that 1999 World Cup tournament. That was so exciting. The factof the matter is just because something makes more money it doesn't necessarily make it a better --

LEMON: It is exciting.

HARLOW: Thank you, Harry.

LEMON: It is exciting. I'm not saying that it's not more interesting to watch. That was just joke. But there is more interest in the men simply because it is what it is.

HARLOW: Wait, wait. Do you want to finish your point or do you want to move on?

COLLINS: I actually would like to move on because we have a lot of news to get to.

HARLOW: Let's get to the news.

LEMON: This is a very important conversation, I think. It's about the dollars.

COLLINS: No. But it's about the historical aspect of why men dominated sports and why people paid more attention and invested more on that and now --

LEMON: There's more money in the men's sport, and it is what it is.

COLLINS: But that's the problem. That's what we're saying.

All right, coming up, this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[07:25:00]

COLLINS: What was important to you as you were in there casting your ballot?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COLLINS: We're talking to Georgia voters about what's on their minds ahead of next week's crucial Senate runoff election.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: All right. This morning, only a few days left in Georgia's Senate runoff. President Obama will be there today to campaign alongside the incumbent Democratic senator, Raphael Warnock. This is the eve of the final day of early voting where voter turnout over the last few days has been setting records.

I was in Georgia on Monday. I spoke with some of the Georgia voters who were casting those votes early to talk about what was at the top of their minds, what were they thinking about when they went to the ballot box. I also had a chance to speak with Senator Warnock himself.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

COLLINS (voice over): With days left in Georgia's high-stake Senate race, voters are swarming polling locations and shattering early voting records.

[07:30:05]

What was important to you as you were in there casting your ballot?