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CNN This Morning
Manhattan D.A. On Criminal Fraud Verdict For Trump Organization; CNN Witnesses Prisoner Swap Between Russians And Ukrainians; Experts Warn Of Looming Recession, But What Does The Data Say? Aired 7:30-8a ET
Aired December 07, 2022 - 07:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(COMMERCIAL)
[07:33:20]
POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome back to CNN THIS MORNING.
Coming up for us, Walmart's CEO says inflation is easing a little bit on things like toys, clothing, and sporting goods.
Also, the family of fallen officer -- of a fallen officer at the Capitol refusing to shake hands with two top Republicans in Congress at a ceremony honoring officers who defended the Capitol on January the sixth. We will be joined live by the family of the late Officer Brian Sicknick.
And more analysis of Raphael Warnock's runoff victory, giving Democrats a slim but very significant 51-49 majority in the Senate.
DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: OK, but first, major developments in three investigations into former President Trump and his businesses.
The Justice Department's special counsel Jack Smith issuing subpoenas for county officials in three key states -- Arizona, Michigan, and Wisconsin. He is asking for their communications with Trump allies around the 2020 election.
Second, multiple sources telling CNN that the January 6 House committee is weighing criminal referrals for Trump and some of his closest allies.
Third, a Manhattan jury found two Trump Organization companies guilty of running a criminal tax fraud scheme. The companies were accused of trying to avoid taxes for years.
So, joining us now is district attorney Alvin Bragg. He is -- he and his team led the prosecution. We're so happy to have you on. Thank you very much for joining us, Mr. District Attorney.
Here's a -- here's a question for you. So, this -- you said in a statement -- you said that this shows -- the outcome of what you did -- that no corporation is above the law.
So, then, what does this verdict mean to you? ALVIN BRAGG, MANHATTAN DISTRICT ATTORNEY: It's consequential. You have the namesake company of a former President of the United States held accountable by a jury by way of a criminal conviction. So it does, I think, underscore that one standard for corporations in Manhattan.
[07:35:13]
And then when we look at the conduct here, it's tax fraud but really, it's cheating, it's lying, it's greed. It's what the great prosecutors I work with said in court. And that kind of conduct stretched out over 13 years, we're not going to tolerate that in Manhattan.
POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Do you --
LEMON: I want to ask you -- I'm sorry, Poppy. Let me ask just one more question, please.
You said corporation. People at home are wondering about the person. If it's his namesake, as you said -- the company. The company is behind held accountable. Why isn't Donald Trump being held accountable himself?
BRAGG: Understood. So we issued a statement in April -- I did -- indicating -- because we were getting this question -- that the investigation concerning the former president is ongoing. I view this in chapters. This was like one chapter in the book. I was telling people this is an important chapter to see the inner workings of the company kind of laid bare in a courtroom.
But while those team members were in court, others were in the office continuing our broader investigation. So the work continues.
LEMON: I just wanted to get that. I'm sorry.
HARLOW: Oh, no, of course. But let me follow up on that great question that Don had because the defense counsel is pushing for -- pushed for a mistrial and now they're going to appeal on the grounds that you guys invoked Trump so much.
I mean, your -- one of your ADAs -- one of your prosecutors, Joshua Steinglass, even said to the jury that convicted on all 17 counts, that Donald Trump, quote, "explicitly sanctioned tax fraud." That's one of your guys saying it to this jury.
How do you explain, then, no criminal charges for Trump?
BRAGG: So let me start off by saying one of the guys I'm proud of the --
HARLOW: Yes.
BRAGG: -- entire team, Josh, Susan Hoffinger -- the entire team.
HARLOW: But you hear what I'm getting at. He stood before the jury and said that. BRAGG: Oh, of course. And so, let me put that in context. I mean,
we'll leave the appeal for the appellate courts.
But the defense team repeatedly talked about how this was one rogue employee in Mr. Weisselberg, who pled guilty and is going to be sentenced later this year. And so that was in rebuttal to that. You can't try to say this is just one rogue employee who was the CFO -- a high managing -- managerial employee, along with others who were also senior, and then say that it's not in the benefit of the company. That was the legal issue that ADA Steinglass was referring to there.
HARLOW: But I understand you were rebutting defense counsel, but this was the crux of his argument to rebut that. So people at home might think, this morning, I'm wondering -- you say that to a jury -- why no criminal charges against the former president if the words Trump explicitly sanctioned tax fraud.
BRAGG: So, I'll say two things.
One, as I said to Don, that the investigation is ongoing. This was a chapter in it -- a case against the corporations.
And two, the standard is different when we're kind of corporate liability. And so, who sanctioned the conduct on behalf of the corporation is a different standard from sort of, obviously, proof beyond a reasonable doubt as to an individual.
But we're continuing to do our work. I'm constrained from what I can say here. I often like to explain to people why that we bring a charge. Things I say here --
HARLOW: Yes.
BRAGG: -- could prejudice that case.
HARLOW: All right. So I'm going to try to understand what you're going to do going forward, right? Because The New York Times -- I know you've read the piece -- is reporting that you are looking to, quote, "jumpstart a criminal inquiry into Trump's involvement in that hush money payment to adult film actress Stormy Daniels."
Many -- a number of your predecessors -- a number of your other prosecutors in the office and your predecessor declined to do this because of a number of legal challenges that they confronted.
Is that correct that you are looking to jumpstart that criminal inquiry?
BRAGG: Well, so first, I want to take issue with the word jumpstart. As I said --
HARLOW: It's the Times' word, not ours.
BRAGG: I know -- I understand.
We have been continuously working with rigor throughout the year. And you're going to be maybe displeased with the answer because I'm not going to -- we have not confirmed or denied. As you said, that's the Times' reporting.
Look, we're working on a number of pieces and perspectives with this. Like I said, this is one chapter and an important chapter, but there are a lot of tentacles if you will. We're following the facts where they go.
I've been a prosecutor for about 20 years now and this is what I've done for the past 20 years is what I did at the attorney general's office, leading the Trump Foundation matter.
We can't talk about it publicly because it could prejudice it, but we have to do our work.
LEMON: In that vein, you said in -- to The New York Times and also in other interviews I've heard you saying that this was -- this was just a chapter and people shouldn't read ahead in the book. I'm wondering what that means. Is that -- because that sort of looks like people are saying -- like you're saying to people stay tuned, there's something on the horizon.
BRAGG: So what I'm saying is let's pause for the moment as we are. This was -- I think it's very consequential -- the work that went into this. How ably the people in the state of New York were represented.
[07:40:03]
But as I said back in April, there's other work going on and we're continuing that. It wasn't paused. We've been doing it. We've got a team in court.
And what I would say is to folks who watched the trial, that's where we do our speaking, right, when we talk about facts and evidence and apply the law in the courtroom. And I think people saw the professionalism and how well that was done. We apply that same level of professionalism and rigor to the work we're doing behind the scenes.
And so, you've got to let us do the work. And as you said, I've been saying don't read it in the book.
LEMON: Yes.
BRAGG: Let us --
LEMON: Speaking of the work that you do, I just want to make this turn and talk about what's happening here in New York City. The mayor, Eric Adams, recently announcing this series of policy changes that he hopes that is going to reduce the number of homeless people on the city streets, and also have some of an impact on crime. The critics say that it could be -- it could put both homeless people and first responders at risk.
What do you think? Do you believe that? And what do you make of this policy? Do you support this policy? HARLOW: This is the involuntary detention.
LEMON: Yes.
BRAGG: First, let me say from the top, mental health is an issue that affects the criminal justice system really almost at every step. So these are critically important issues that we -- that we need to address and that we've been -- we've been working on in our office, sort of, once a case starts in terms of diverting people and connecting people in appropriate cases to mental health services.
We also have done some stuff on the prevention side. We had a pilot program in East Harlem where we had community-engaged people out connecting with people who were having mental issues. So we have done that.
And we have -- we have our own sort of initiatives in mental health, which I'm happy to go into further detail about.
I saw the mayor's announcement.
LEMON: But do you support the policy is my question?
BRAGG: I don't know it chapter and verse. He had a bunch of us at Gracie Mansion about a month ago or so to talk about mental health generally. I don't know the details and I look forward to sort of engaging with them on them.
HARLOW: Well, the details are allowing, basically, involuntary detention of anyone on the street who authorities -- police deem to be mentally ill and a risk.
LEMON: And a risk, and can't take care of themselves.
HARLOW: But involuntarily detained is the crux of it.
BRAGG: No, I understand that but --
HARLOW: And that you're for that or --
BRAGG: Well, I know, but it's how it's applied, right? So look, in my work, for example, if someone is not competent to stand trial, there may be involuntary, right? So --
LEMON: So you do -- I heard you. You said you don't know about this policy but were you -- was your office not consulted beforehand?
BRAGG: Well, in broad strokes. Like I said, the mayor had a number of stakeholders -- all the district attorney's offices, and defenders, and some judges to Gracie Hall -- Gracie Mansion, excuse me, about a month ago. But the details and I think how it will be applied --
HARLOW: Yes.
BRAGG: -- certainly on -- in the -- in the pilot project --
HARLOW: Yes.
BRAGG: -- that we did in eastern Harlem -- East Harlem --
HARLOW: Yes.
BRAGG: -- it was kind of community-based and the connections were --
HARLOW: That's fair. And by whom --
BRAGG: Right, yes.
HARLOW: -- and whom will -- yes.
Well, we really appreciate your time --
LEMON: Thank you.
HARLOW: -- this morning.
BRAGG: It's good to see you guys.
LEMON: Thank you. Come back, please. We'd love to have you back --
HARLOW: Yes.
LEMON: -- to discuss --
BRAGG: Thank you.
HARLOW: Thank you very much.
LEMON: -- these issues and more. Thank you so much.
Well, coming up, a troubling plot foiled in Germany. How officials say that they were able to stop a far-right group intent on overthrowing the government. Plus, we're live in Ukraine.
WILL RIPLEY, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: And we have just returned from the Russian border where we spoke with Ukrainian prisoners of war in their first minutes of freedom. They described brainwashing and psychological torture at the hands of the Russians.
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[07:47:42]
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: This just in this morning. Time Magazine has announced the 2022 "Person of the Year." Who had the greatest influence on the events that you saw play out? Let's see who some of the finalists were. Elon Musk, Chinese President Xi Jinping, protesters in Iran, Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis, Congresswoman Liz Cheney.
But the winner is Ukraine's President Zelensky, now battling his tenth month of war against the Russians ever since Putin invaded his country. And speaking of, Ukraine's military this morning says that at least
two people are dead and several have been wounded after heavy Russian shelling targeted the civilian areas of the Donetsk and Kherson region.
Meantime, in the midst of the fighting, there is some good news for families ahead of the holidays. Ukrainian soldiers returning home in a big prisoner exchange.
CNN's Will Ripley has the exclusive reporting from Kyiv.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
RIPLEY (voice-over): At an undisclosed location near the Russian border, two buses arrive with 60 Ukrainian soldiers -- prisoners of war just released in a POW swap with Russia. Two women, 58 men -- their first minutes of freedom.
This Marine tells me about his 4-year-old daughter.
VADYM SOTNIKOV, MARINE: (Speaking foreign language).
RIPLEY (voice-over): "It's so emotional," he says. "I can't wait to tell her I love her and that I've missed her so much."
Some are parents; others, grandparents. Most, defenders of Mariupol, the southern Ukrainian port city that fell to the Russians in May.
SOTNIKOV: (Speaking foreign language).
RIPLEY (voice-over): "All of us from Mariupol worry so much," he says. "We lost the city. We couldn't fight them off. We don't know how people will react to us." They'll get a hero's welcome, of course.
As we go inside, they each get a cell phone -- the first time they've called their families in months.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) mama and papa.
RIPLEY (voice-over): "How's mom, how's dad," he asks. "Are they alive?"
Their bodies bear the scars of months of captivity. "We didn't have any medical treatment," he says. It's been eight days since he's had a shower.
RIPLEY (on camera): A lot of these guys have physical injuries, scars -- but the emotional scars -- the mental scars from this kind of hellish ordeal are going to take even longer to heal.
[07:50:06]
RIPLEY (voice-over): One of the two rescued women, a radio intelligence operator, describes months of psychological torture -- lies that half of Ukraine was now part of Russia. Brainwashing, forced to read Russian poetry, sing Russian songs, pledge loyalty to mother Russia.
TETYANA FEDORUK, RADIO INTELLIGENCE OPERATOR: (Speaking foreign language).
RIPLEY (voice-over): "I wondered when will this be over," she says.
RIPLEY (on camera): And now you're here.
FEDORUK: (Speaking foreign language).
RIPLEY (voice-over): "Sorry for my tears."
For this former POW, there are no tears left. Her 6-year-old daughter is still in occupied Mariupol. She has no way to contact her or her husband, a sailor. They surrendered on the same day.
RIPLEY (on camera): How does it feel to be out and know that your husband is still there -- still in Russia?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (Speaking foreign language).
RIPLEY (voice-over): "I worry so much about him," she says. "They torture men much more than women."
She's not ready to talk about how she was physically treated. She, like everyone here, just wants to see family. Wants to go home. For most, from devastated and occupied Mariupol, going home is not an option.
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RIPLEY: One of the first things they did was sing the Ukrainian anthem, that you heard the beginning of there, because in Russia, every day they were forced to wake up at 6:00 a.m. to the Russian anthem.
And they said all they wanted to do was be back on their home soil. They are now back on their home soil but it is a long road ahead. They don't get to go directly home -- one, because many of their homes have been destroyed in Mariupol, but also, they need to go through a rehabilitation program to try to transition back to normal life.
And after everything -- all the horrific things they experienced and they've been through Kaitlan, it's going to be a very tough recovery for these men and women.
COLLINS: Yes. It's hard to say what a normal life is like for them.
Will Ripley, thank you.
Don, Poppy, just hearing those stories of those people who were -- they're released from being prisoners of war but now they're still separated from their families. They're still trying to figure out what life looks like now.
LEMON: Yes. HARLOW: And you're so right -- there is no normalcy --
LEMON: Yes.
HARLOW: -- after that.
LEMON: Straight ahead, our special live coverage of the Georgia runoff continues. And what the CEOs of Walmart and United Airlines are saying about inflation and the possibility of a recession.
HARLOW: But first, something happy for you this morning. Here is a preview --
LEMON: My life.
HARLOW: -- of "CNN HEROES" --
LEMON: Yes.
HARLOW: -- right? The All-Star Tribute.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sunday, it's the time of year to be inspired and honor some of humanity's best.
CARIE BROECKER, PEACE OF MIND DOG RESCUE: We have found homes for almost 3,000 dogs.
TYRIQUE GLASGOW, YOUNG CHANCES FOUNDATION: Our communities and the center used to be the community drug house.
BOBBY WILSON, METRO ATLANTA URBAN FARM: I want my grandchildren to have it better than what I have it today.
RICHARD CASPER, CREATIVETS: -- and has always wanted to serve other people.
TERESA GRAY, MOBILE MEDICS INTERNATIONAL: Human suffering has no borders. People are people and love is love.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Join Anderson Cooper and Kelly Ripa live as they present the 2022 Hero of the Year.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Join me --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: -- in honoring --
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR, "ANDERSON COOPER 360": CNN Hero of the Year.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "CNN HEROES: AN ALL-STAR TRIBUTE" Sunday at 8:00.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL) [07:57:36]
HARLOW: Can two things be true at the same time? Of course, they can, sometimes. The U.S. economy is showing signs of a -- the U.S. is showing strong signs of a strong economy. But at the same time, many experts say a recession may still be in the cards.
Listen to this from United Airlines CEO Scott Kirby talking about this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SCOTT KIRBY, CEO, UNITED AIRLINES: We're probably going to have a mild -- well, basically, a mild recession induced by the Fed. If I didn't watch CNBC in the morning, which I do, the word recession wouldn't be in my vocabulary just looking at our data.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Wow.
KIRBY: You just can't see it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARLOW: Other than the fact that he says he watched another unnamed morning show, which we love.
LEMON: What you talking about?
HARLOW: Joining us now is CNN chief business correspondent Christine Romans. What do you think? More of these CEOs are like --
CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CHIEF BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT, ANCHOR, "EARLY START": Yes.
HARLOW: -- I don't see it. Brian Moynihan, Bank of America, sort of the same thing.
ROMANS: I don't see it today but I'm looking out and I'm worried and I see uncertainty in the future. That's what a lot of these CEOs are saying even as you're seeing signs of strength overall in the economy. A stronger than expected jobs report right now. Look at Black Friday and Cyber Monday shopping.
It's the "yes, but" economy. Yes, everyone feels bad about the economy but they keep spending. People with disposable income, like the customers at United, are spending their money. Inflation showing signs of cooling. And we've seen factory orders increase and other signs of strength in the underlying economy.
Listen to what the CEO of Walmart said about customers as well, and maybe a little bit of a silver lining in terms of that inflation -- listen.
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DOUG MCMILLON, CEO, WALMART: And toys, sporting good, apparel -- categories like that. Prices have come down more aggressively. We're still inflated but we're not inflated nearly as much as we are in the other categories.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROMANS: The worst of the inflation story, guys, could be behind us, and that's what a lot of people are hoping for. But the Fed has been raising rates aggressively to fight that inflation and I think we're just starting to feel that. We've got a lot of higher interest rates that have to work through the economy next year. That's the caution you see.
So, yes, the economy is strong, but it might not be sustainable.
HARLOW: You had a great piece last week -- the "yes, but" economy.
Christine Romans, thank you very much.
ROMANS: You're welcome.
LEMON: Thank you very much.
OK. So, before the top of the hour, some hilarious video that you have got to see. I want you to watch this moment. It's from "INSIDE THE NBA." It was last night.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
Shaquille O'Neal gets shoved by Kenny Smith into on-set Christmas tree.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That was bad right there.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm telling you.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That was bad. That was bad.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARLOW: Good grief. He was stuck in the tree.
LEMON: It was -- was that Shaq? I don't know.
HARLOW: Wait, wait --
LEMON: It looks like the wicked witch --
HARLOW: It's Shaq. Can we re-wrap?
LEMON: That was 7-foot-tall Shaq getting launched into a Christmas tree.
[08:00:00]
