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Brittney Griner Freed In Exchange For Convicted Arms Dealer; Gas Prices Fall across U.S. to Levels Below One Year Previous. Aired 8-8:30a ET

Aired December 08, 2022 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: That voice.

DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: That voice. Beautiful voice, beautiful everything, dress, beautiful woman.

HARLOW: Terrible news.

LEMON: Good morning, everyone. Yes, you're right, terrible news. We're going to share it. It's December 8th, by the way. Welcome. The reason that we opened up with that showing you Celine Dion is because Celine Dion is making a heartbreaking announcement of a rare medical condition. We're going to have more on that in just a moment.

But first we want to catch up, these are the five big things that CNN is following this morning. A chilling new warning from Russian President Vladimir Putin telling war weary Russian citizens to prepare for a longer war in Ukraine, his invasion now in its tenth month. In a Kremlin speech, Putin says Russia will fight with, quote, all means available and not ruling out the first use of nuclear weapons.

HARLOW: Also, this morning investigators in North Carolina are zeroing in on two possible motives for the targeted attack on two energy substations. One involves extremists on online platforms encouraging attacks on critical infrastructure, and the other looks at a series of recent disruptions of LGBTQ-plus events across the country.

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: There's also a new development this morning in the mishandling of potentially classified White House documents. A firm, two individuals that were hired by former President Trump's lawyers searched four of his property in recent weeks. They found two items marked in classified inside a Florida storage unit that has the former president's belongings inside of it. Of course, earlier this year federal agents took hundreds of classified documents from Trump's home as they were executing a search warrant. We'll tell you what this new development means for that investigation. HARLOW: The Biden administration is considering the Ukrainian

military's controversial request for access to the U.S. stockpile of cluster warhead munitions. They are banned by more than 100 countries but are continually being used by Russia, and now Ukraine wants access.

COLLINS: And major news out of Peru, this morning, a bungled coup attempt landing the president behind bars. The country now has its first female leader. We have a live report from the country ahead.

LEMON: Right now, though, gas prices are cheaper than they were one year ago, some needed relief for Americans who have spent this year grappling with the worst inflation in decades. For some perspective now, just a month ago the average cost of a gallon was $3.80.

Let's bring in now CNN's chief business correspondent Christine Romans who knows all about this. I don't know. Am I going too far by saying that? Good morning to you.

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CHIEF BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Good morning.

LEMON: Has inflation peaked? Is that --

ROMANS: In terms of gas prices in the near term, yes. You had more than $5 a gallon this summer and we are far, far from that. Just in the last month, 47 cents has come off a gallon of gasoline. So let me put that into real perspective here. If you have an SUV and you're filling it up, it's about 10 bucks less today than it was last month. So that's a noticeable amount here.

A couple of things going. You had some refineries that were offline but have had repairs and are online now, so they're refining a little bit more gas. But also you had these concerns about COVID shutdowns in China. China is using less petroleum, right, so the whole worldwide market of gas and oil, there's a little bit less demand. There's some concerns about slowing demand in the U.S. next year so futures markets have been a little bit cool. But this is all good news for anybody who is filling up the gas tank.

COLLINS: Can I ask you, because a huge part of this, and the White House every day is tracking these gas prices. We know that the Chief of Staff, Ron Klain, was getting up at 3:00 a.m. to check the gas prices when they updated. A big question is around diesel, because that is also how goods are transported. So what are we seeing the diesel prices, because that is really key to inflation prices.

ROMANS: Absolutely. So gasoline prices are cooling a little bit faster than diesel prices, but those are also showing signs of peaking as well. So that's incredibly important. Now, one of the things that can be sort of the downside, if I can say this, of lower gas prices, sometimes they fall because you're worried about a recession. So they're falling for the wrong reasons. They were very low during the pandemic. That's because we were in the middle of a pandemic. And sometimes you'll hear people say gas prices were up so much from that pandemic low of $1.85. Well, you don't want low gas prices because the economy is crashing, right? LEMON: Christine Romans, we appreciate that. Thank you so much.

ROMANS: Nice to see you.

LEMON: And we're standing by right now for breaking news.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is CNN breaking news.

LEMON: So this is the breaking news right now. We're getting news that Brittney Griner is free. The WNBA star how has been detained in Russia since February has been released in a prisoner swap with arms dealer Viktor Bout. She is now in U.S. custody. Our team of reporters and analysts are standing by. We want to start now with Kiley Atwood at the State Department. Kiley, hello. Welcome to you. What do we know at this point?

KYLIE ATWOOD, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: We've just learned from a U.S., as you said, Brittney Griner after about 10 months of being in Russian prison is now free. She is in the custody of U.S. officials.

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We're expecting to hear from President Biden today, according to that U.S. official. And a source familiar tells us that this was a prisoner swap. It was Brittney Griner for Viktor Bout. And just to remind folks who Viktor Bout is, he is an infamous drug -- excuse me, arms trafficker. He is serving a 25-year prison sentence here in the United States, and he is someone the Russians have been wanting for a while.

Of course, Griner is a very famous basketball star, and there's been an immense amount of public pressure by the Biden administration to secure her release. But guys, notably this morning, we're not hearing that there is any news on Paul Whelan. And Paul Whelan is another American who has been wrongfully detained in Russia since 2018, going on four years in Russian prison. And so that is notable because U.S. officials have been saying for quite some time now that they were pushing for both Britney Griner and Paul Whelan to be released. So essentially, today we'll be an incredibly joyful family for Brittney Griner's family, but we can expect it will be an emotional day for Paul Whelan's family.

And of course, we're waiting to hear more as to how this all came to fruition, because you'll remember that earlier this summer we reported that the Biden administration had put an offer on the table with the Russians to try and get out Brittney Griner and Paul Whelan, and Viktor Bout, that convicted arms trafficker, was part of that proposed deal. So now we're seeing part of that deal come to fruition, but of course, not in its entirely.

LEMON: And Tony Blinken, speaking about that this weekend, too, about this possible deal for the prison swap.

COLLINS: And Kiley, my question on this is, obviously, this is big reporting that we had over the summer about this offer that the Biden administration made for this convicted arms dealer, Viktor Bout. They thought that was a big deal to offer this up. They thought the Russians were going to jump on that proposal when they said that they would conduct that prison swap. The Russians did not, and it caused serious frustration inside the White House that bled out publicly. They made that very clear that they were frustrated with the fact the Russians had not taken them up on that offer.

The question around this, we do have big questions about Paul Whelan, and his family will as well, but what changed in this? Is there any sense of why the Russians have now taken the United States up on this offer to get Brittney Griner and bring her home?

ATWOOD: We don't know the specifics, but you're exactly right, Kaitlan. There was an incredible frustration from U.S. officials because they felt like they were offering Russia something that Russia really wanted. Viktor Bout's name come up repeatedly when you have talked about potential prisoner swaps between the U.S. and Russia. But clearly the Russians realized there was an incredibly high price on Brittney Griner. We should note that she is a famous basketball player, an American star. She really galvanized the LGBTQ community, the African American community to pressure the Biden administration to get her out. And rest assured that Russia was watching as that happened.

Of course, Paul Whelan was part of those conversations, but she galvanized the public in a different way than we have seen before when it comes to Americans who are detained abroad.

HARLOW: We have David Sanger and Abby Phillip to join the conversation, but Kiley, before you do more reporting on this, I do have a question, because, and Kaitlan knows as well, when President Biden was asked not that long ago if there were any terms under which he would engage with Vladimir Putin directly, the only term was if it had to do with the release of Brittney Griner. Do we know anything about the president's involvement in this in any way, because Secretary Blinken did say the president was briefed every step of the way this summer, remember, before they made this offer in June to Russia.

ATWOOD: Yes, that's right. So Putin didn't end up showing up at the G-20, which was the place where we thought potentially Biden would see him if there was something to discuss on a prisoner swap. So that was sort of off the table. But when it comes to President Biden's role in all of this, when we talk to U.S. officials and track this back and forth, what they have repeatedly said is that they weren't telling the Russians anything was on the table without approval of the highest levels.

And so what that means, of course, is that President Biden knew everything in terms of what U.S. officials were offering to the Russians privately. The Russians over the course of the last few months have been incredibly hard interlocuters because they have been coming back to the U.S. with proposals that U.S. officials said they simply couldn't deliver on. Clearly, they felt like they could deliver on this deal here.

LEMON: David Sanger, let's remind people of what happened here, because this was on February 27th, and this is when she played for the Mercury. She was a Mercury star. She was detained in Russia. She was on her way to Russia at a Moscow airport and there was a substance in her bag. So she was detained for that, it contained oil, cannabis oil, vape cartridges.

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But the thing that happened that was so important, and we should remember, a week later there was the invasion of Russia. And so that added a complication on top of this. So this is all playing out in the backdrop, David. And it couldn't have happened, the timing could not have been worse for her.

DAVID SANGER, CNN POLITICAL AND NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: That's absolutely right. And there is of course suspicion that she was grabbed at the airport, obviously it was a week in advance of the invasion, exactly in part, Don, because the Russians wanted to grab a hostage and have sort of one more bargaining chip as the war went on. They've also wanted to get Viktor Bout out of prison. He's been there for more than a decade, for a long time.

And one of the questions that has been sort of circulating through this whole thing is whether this long-time arms dealer who is considered one of the most dangerous people on earth was worth more -- the United States should insist that they get more than just a single person back in return, particularly somebody who is held wrongfully. So the fact that they didn't get Paul Whelan as part of this is I think going to be politically a bit difficult for the president. He got bigger name, but he didn't get both of them.

LEMON: We're learning -- one second. We're learning the president is going to speak at 8:30, just so you know. So stand by for that. Go ahead.

HARLOW: Paul Whelan, to you point, has been in the hospital in recent days in Russia. Abby, you had that interview we all remember, and I understand this morning you've been in touch with Cherelle, who is Brittney Griner's wife?

ABBY PHILLIP, CNN ANCHOR, INSIDE POLITICS SUNDAY: Yes. We have been waiting -- they have been waiting for this news for quite some time. And what I've been hearing from over there is that they've been waiting for the phone call, and that phone call clearly came this morning. And the very brief interactions that I had with Cherelle over the last few hours, her spirits were high this morning. And I think you can see why. This has been a long-awaited moment.

And just to kind of recap a little bit, in the last few months, President Biden hosted Cherelle Griner at the White House along with the family of Paul Whelan. And one of the main messages that President Biden wanted to convey in that moment was that he was doing everything that possibly he could, but that they did not feel like Russia was seriously coming to the table. Russia was asking for more than the White House believed that they could give them in that moment.

And so, as we look at what has happened here where we have Viktor Bout in exchange for just one of the two Americans who are in the most kind of high profile detention situations in Russia, it seems that something significant must have changed where Russia was willing to come to the table again in a serious way and at least do something. That was not the case a few months ago, at least not according to what the families have been told by President Biden and by the White House.

But they came out of those meetings feeling like the administration was really putting everything that they could into it, and based on the president's public statement saying he only wants to talk to Putin about this issue, that was as strong a signal as you can get that this was at the top of the agenda.

COLLINS: And Jill Dougherty, CNN's former Moscow Bureau chief, Jill, I want to talk to you about this, because we are hearing that Biden has been on the phone with Brittney Griner we are told, we believe, that Vice President Harris was also in the room. Obviously, there's going to be a lot of steps that happen here. There are a lot of questions about what exactly was part of this transaction. Brittney Griner is obviously going to have to undergo a medical evaluation. She had been being kept in this Russian penal colony. Can you tell us what Brittney Griner is being released from and what potentially could be Putin's thinking on now taking the U.S. up on this offer?

JILL DOUGHERTY, FORMER CNN MOSCOW BUREAU CHIEF: Yes, that's really the question, isn't it? But conditions are really severe. I mean, this is located in a region that is called Mordovia. It's really remote. These penal colonies, as they're called, have very spartan conditions. They have to do labor, depending on what that is, often sewing for hours and hours. It's a bad situation.

But I think when you ask why now, obviously Viktor Bout has been key throughout for Russia, and all of this depends on the decision by President Putin. And look at the situation right now. Viktor Bout, even though it has been a while, he is an arms dealer, and he is very much a prisoner who could be of more value in the time of war because he knows, he presumably still has those connections for selling weapons, obtaining weapons, et cetera.

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So, I would think that might be useful. And then of course, how does this help Putin is the ultimate question that could make him look more magnanimous. I don't think that's probably a major part of this. But we'll see what President Biden says.

LEMON: If you're just tuning in, we're going to tell you that we're getting news in now, the breaking news. WNBA star Brittney Griner has been released from Russian detention. We're standing by to hear from the President of the United States Joe Biden expected to speak at 8:30 this morning in the Roosevelt Room from the White House.

We're also getting word that the Griner and Paul Whelan's family have all been informed of the release. Again, this is just breaking on CNN. I want to get now to CNN's Frederik Pleitgen.

COLLINS: Before you go to Fred, can I just add what Kevin Liptak from our White House team. He says that Biden gave final approval for the prisoner swap to free Griner over the past week, and that he was updated on the swap as it was taking place.

LEMON: And Antony Blinken had been asked about this on the Sunday shows and had been indicated -- he had been positive all along that they were trying to work out some sort of prisoner swap and prisoner exchange. And now, it appears that it has come through fruition.

So, let's get now to CNN's Frederik Pleitgen. It is his duty and responsibilities to cover these stories. This is breaking news. I expected that it might happen, but now it appears that it has happened, Frederik. What are you hearing from the region?

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (on camera): Well, first of all, we're trying to get in touch with Brittney Griner's legal team in Russia. I followed the trial on the ground outside of Moscow for basically the entire time that it was going on. And I can tell you that, Don, the legal team really did pick a big -- put a big fight for Brittney Griner. They said that she was in good spirits.

And I was in touch with them last week, and they said that they had managed to visit her and that she was still in good spirits to fight despite the fact that she was now in this penal colony. But you know, the way that the Russian legal system works, the way that the odds were stacked against her in that court, even the lawyers that were representing her said, the only thing that they could really hope for was for a prisoner swap like this to happen.

They knew that it was going to be something that was going to be very complicated. They definitely knew that the Russians were playing hardball, that they wanted a high-profile person like Viktor Bout in return. But they also said that, you know, they basically exhausted all the means that they had within the Russian legal process, which is a difficult one anyway. And Brittney Griner had already been transferred to that penal colony in the place called Mordovia, which is an extremely tough place -- which is, by the way, also the same region that Paul Whelan is in as well.

And so, they were saying right now, they weren't getting any information from the Russian side or from the U.S. side, but they were really hoping that the prisoner swap would happen. And we are in touch with them right now. We're going to see if we can get word from them how they feel about all this.

But certainly, you know, one of the things that you guys were talking about, we were seeing as well was the Russian seemingly becoming more and more open to the swap happening. They were extremely angry at the beginning when the U.S. made public that it had put forward a substantial offer and when things came out that Viktor Bout was part of that offer and Brittney Griner was part of that offer as well, the Russians the entire time were saying it's counterproductive. They want everything to happen behind closed doors.

But what we saw in the past couple of weeks was top-level Russian politicians then coming out and saying that, yes, they were open to such a swap. They still think that negotiations needed to happen behind closed doors. But they also put that name Viktor Bout out there as well. And you could see that they were setting the stage in the Russian public -- in the Russian public sphere also for something like this to happen.

So, I think you're absolutely right to say that, you know, many people were expecting the swap would happen, not clear when it was going to happen. But of course, with these things, it's all so delicate, and so up in the air until the very last moment that it was impossible to tell whether this would actually be successful.

And certainly, I can tell you from the early reactions that I'm getting that Brittney Griner's legal team is definitely extremely happy that she's finally able to get out. They were with her the entire time. They put up a big legal defense for her. They knew, you know, the psychological trauma that Brittney Griner was also going through being in that jail. So, definitely, a good moment for them and definitely a great moment for Brittney Griner and her family as well, guys.

LEMON: Fredrik Pleitgen joining us from Berlin with the news this morning.

HARLOW: And I think she was --

LEMON: We're told that this swap happened at the Abu Dhabi airport and that she is on her way back to U.S. soil. Again, Brittney Griner, the WNBA star released from Russian detention. We're standing by for the President of the United States expected to speak --

COLLINS: It's been 10 -- it's been 10 months since she's been held in captivity.

LEMON: -- at 8:30 this morning. The worldwide resources, Frederik Pleitgen and others are on the ground there and we're going to continue to follow.

COLLINS: Yes. And I want to go to M.J. Lee who is live at the White House. M.J., I know President Biden just tweeted a photo of Cherelle Griner, Brittney Griner's wife, is in the Oval Office. He spoke to Brittney Griner this morning. He said she is on a plane. She is on her way home. He's expected to speak shortly as Don noted. What else have you heard from the White House on this monumental moment?

M.J. LEE, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (on camera): Yes. If we could put up those photos. This is the photo that the President's Twitter account just sent out along with this message that says moments ago, I spoke to Brittney Griner. She is safe. She was on a plane. She is on her way home. I mean, you can see just the expressions of joy on Cherelle Griner's face here. She is clearly with the President. The Vice President is there. This is presumably the moment that he is talking about when he just spoke directly with Brittney Griner on the phone.

[08:20:26] I mean, Kaitlan, it is just difficult to overstate what a big problem and a priority this whole issue had become for President Biden. How much pressure he had come under in recent months, whether it is questions from the media, whether it was from celebrities, including folks in the sports world, family members to get her out of Russia. And this is why we eventually saw the President meeting in person with Griner's wife at the White House earlier this summer. There were obviously lots of conversations.

And you know, these conversations and the outreach and the efforts really took place at the highest levels of the Biden administration. And I have to tell you, you know, obviously the issue of an American being wrongly detained in a foreign country, this is how the U.S. has always described grinder's detention in Russia, that is always going to be incredibly diplomatically complicated. But for this President, and in this situation, just take a step back and think about the fact that all of this was happening in Russia, in the middle of Russia's invasion of Ukraine.

And this ended up raising so many questions for President Biden on how and whether to engage Vladimir Putin. You know, in general, when he has been asked this question about are you going to talk to him, are you willing to talk to him? He has mostly recently said, look, I don't want to have a conversation with him unless he is serious in giving signs about wanting to end the war. But I thought a really telling moment from earlier this year was in his interview with Jake Tapper when he was asked, look, Mr. President, would you be willing to have a conversation with Putin on the sidelines of the G20? And he initially said no. And then he amended his answer to say, I would be willing to do this if he showed signs of being willing to discuss Griner.

So, I think that exchange really captured how much the Griner issue was top of mind and has been top of mind for this President as he has been dealing with this ongoing war in Ukraine. And again, just the question of how do you deal with someone like Vladimir Putin?

LEMON: The -- we need to also tell you that Viktor Bout who is the Russian arms dealer who was supposed to serve 25 years here has been returned to Russia. We hear that he is back on Russian soil. Brittney Griner is on a plane on her way back to the United States -- to United States soil.

HARLOW: Let's just pull up for our viewers this photo. Again, I think it says it all in the Oval Office. You have the President, Secretary Blinken, Vice President Kamala Harris. There you have Cherelle, Brittany's wife, embracing the President there as well. But these photos really say it all about what she is finally coming back to.

Let's go back to the State Department. Kylie Atwood is there. Kylie, I do think we have to also continue to shine a light on the fact that Paul Whelan, the former U.S. Marine is not part of this deal. And when Trevor Reed was released, remember what Paul Whelan said, which is why was I left behind? Do we know anything on that this morning?

ATWOOD: No, we really don't know exactly what changed because we have heard U.S. officials say repeatedly over the course of the last 10 months that they want Brittney Griner home and they want Paul Whelan home. As Don was just saying, just over the weekend, Secretary of State Tony Blinken was questioned on this pretty directly on a Sunday show on CBS.

And he said the intention of the administration is to bring both of these Americans home, but he did not equivocally state that they wouldn't be open to a deal if they could get at least one of these Americans home. And clearly, that is the situation that they were faced with here. So, we're obviously looking to learn more about you know, those conversations with the Russians if they were simply saying that, you know, now we're never in terms of getting Brittney Griner home.

I also think it's worth to know that there will be an incredible amount of scrutiny on this deal because Viktor Bout is not just an infamous arms trafficker, but he is convicted serving a 25-year prison sentence in part for conspiring to kill Americans. This is a really incredibly bad person. He committed extremely heinous crimes. And when you compare that to what Brittney Griner did, which was essentially accidentally carry cannabis into Russia when she was playing basketball there, and then get detained, and sent to prison, and sent to a penal colony in Russia, those two things just aren't the same.

So, there will be some scrutiny on that, but rest assured that we have heard from other U.S. officials, we have heard from Trevor Reed who was another American wrongfully detained in Russia and was released earlier this year that the Biden administration should release Viktor Bout if it means getting home and American.

So, there are going to be folks who are going to say this was something that they had to do and other folks who probably say this wasn't the best deal ever.

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LEMON: Viktor Bout, that Russian arms dealer, we're -- our reporting is that he is back on Russian soil right now. Kylie, standby. We're going to get back to you in just a moment. But Brittney Griner, the WNBA star who has been detained in Russia and was at a penal colony facing nine years there has been released in a prison swap with Viktor Bout, the Russian arms dealer.

President Biden, as you see there on the right-hand side of your screen, you see President Biden expected to speak at the White House at any moment now. He was briefed --

And one thing to watch --

LEMON: Stand by one second. He was briefed throughout the morning. He was awaiting confirmation from Griner back in U.S. custody, a U.S. official is telling. This is from our Phil Mattingly, our Chief White House Correspondent. Once that happened, Biden spoke with Griner from the Oval Office with Griner's wife, Cherelle. Vice President Harris, as you saw, was on the phone there in those pictures, Secretary Blinken also on the call. That was per a second official, Secretary Blinken, as Kylie just alluded to, speaking about this over the weekend, question on CBS, very directly about Griner and whether or not there was some sort of prison swap in the works and that it could happen soon.

Kaitlan, did you --

COLLINS: No, I think we should bring in Jonathan Franks. He has been a critical player in so many of these releases and negotiations. Obviously, Jonathan, you are a big part of this when it came to Trevor Reed. And that is something -- you know, we're talking about Paul Whelan and the difficult decisions that a president has to make when it comes to a prisoner swap with Viktor Bout and what this looks like.

You know experience of what these negotiations are like behind the scenes firsthand, how delicate, how sensitive they are. What can you tell us about, you know, your take on the fact that Brittney Griner is now coming home, something that is major news for her family and for the United States, but also just the fact that Paul Whelan is not from our understanding?

JONATHAN FRANKS, WORKED TO GET TREVOR REED FREED: Well, good morning, Kaitlan. Thanks for having me. Congrats on the new show. I think I made a place where I am overjoyed for Cherelle Griner, who I think is an incredibly impressive person, whom I would never want to go up against in a courtroom. But at the same time, I'm sick to my stomach that the Whelan's had been left behind.

Again, this is at least a third time in two presidencies. And I guess I wonder about the wisdom of putting a bunch of celebratory photos on Twitter when we just left, you know, a Marine behind for the second time.

LEMON: Five minutes.

HARLOW: I was -- I was struck -- and thank you for joining us, given your expertise on this, we really appreciate it. I was really struck by, you know, a lot of folks in your position and a lot of folks, for example, Lee Wolosky, who was on the former National Security Council in the Clinton administration said there's a real risk here, right? And this was the Biden administration moving forward, not necessarily in tandem with what, you know, the Justice Department would do and what American policy often is.

And he says the risk when something like this happens is that it can incentivize foreign powers to grab Americans off the street and, you know, throw them in jail to have leverage, right? But the Biden administration was clear, they were going to do this. They wanted to do this. Can you speak to how you -- how you weigh those two things right?

FRANKS: I don't know how to weigh them properly because I've never been a government official doing it. But I will say, I've talked to a ton of experts on this. There's absolutely no empirical evidence whatsoever that making these deals increases hostage-taking. I think what is really -- what increases hostage-taking is our stubborn unwillingness to impose any costs on the hostage takers. In order to stop this problem, we've got to cause pain for the people that are doing it and those they love.

LEMON: So, listen, here's a -- I just want to report that what we're hearing from our sources at the White House and our sources in Washington, and I quote here, and perhaps you can -- you can weigh in on this as well. It says -- this is a quote. "This was the only deal that we could make right now" according to a senior administration official.

President Joe Biden was personally involved and in constant touch and his team -- with a deal on this. And they said that what they were trying to do was give the green light to personally execute this trade. He said that this was the right deal to make at this time. But notably, that the deal would only be -- this was the only one that we could do, the only one that we can make.

So, maybe people are wondering why not Paul Whelan? You know, why this particular issue -- they thought that this was the right one at this time. Do you agree with that?

FRANKS: I don't know if it's the right one. It is entirely possible that this is the only deal that they could get, and in which case they had a moral obligation to do it. But at the same time, you know, you sit and you look at Paul Whelan having been there what, 14-something hundred days and in bad health in and out of the hospital and we didn't get it right.

It is possible that it was impossible to get in this time. But I guess that doesn't really -- it's cold comfort for the Whelan family and I still just feel sick to my stomach while being absolutely thrilled for Brittney Griner.

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