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Arizona Senator Kyrsten Sinema Leaves Democratic Party to Become Independent; WNBA Star Brittney Griner Arrives in U.S. After Release from Russian Detention Due to Prisoner Swap; Brittney Griner Back On U.S. Soil Following Prisoner Swap; Sinema Leaving Democratic Party, Will Become Independent. Aired 8-8:30a ET

Aired December 09, 2022 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:00:00]

THEO JAMES, HIGH PROFILE SUPPORTER OF U.N. REFUGEE AGENCY: Myself, immigration, it happens all the time. It's important for culture. It's also, remember how recently your own ancestors were faced those problems.

DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: We enjoy having you and enjoy watching such a great series, and you really do a fantastic job. And I was just in Sicily this past summer, and it's a very sexy place, lots of wine. And this is, as you said, it's naughty, in your voice, sexy series. Serious, it's really good. Thank you very much.

JAMES: Thanks very much.

LEMON: We really appreciate it.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Thank you.

(END VIDEO TAPE)

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, everybody. It is December 9th. Welcome to CNN THIS MORNING. Don is off today. We also don't have Theo James here on set sadly. We had so much fun interviewing him.

But we do have on the news front two major stories for you this morning. First, there has just been a major shift in the Senate as you were waking up. Arizona Senator Kyrsten Sinema is no longer a Democrat. She has now registered as an independent. She sat down with our Jake Tapper to talk about this big change. Jake is actually going to join us in just seconds to talk about his takeaways.

That's not all. We're going to ask Democratic Senator Amy Klobuchar, what does this mean for her caucus?

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: And she is finally home. Brittney Griner touching down this morning in Texas after being in prison in Russia for nearly 10 months. The Biden administration swapping arms dealer Viktor Bout for her. But what about American veteran Paul Whelan who is still in prison in Russia? John Kirby joins us this morning from the White House on that. COLLINS: But we'll start with this morning, this big news for Capitol Hill. Senator Kyrsten Sinema's big announcement coming just three days ago after Democrats have been celebrating their new 51-49 majority in the Senate after Raphael Warnock defeated Herschel Walker in that runoff in Georgia. But now Sinema's announcement she is a registered independent could have a big impact on the Democrats' legislative agenda.

Let's get right to CNN's chief Washington correspondent Jake Tapper. Jake, we've been talking about this interview all morning. I wonder what your big takeaways were.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR: It's really trillion. Senator Sinema says she's no longer a Democrat. It's been an interesting journey for her. She started out as a member of the Green Party in the year 2000. She endorsed and worked for Ralph Nader, tried to get Ralph Nader into the White House. But now that path as continued. She went from Green Party activist to Democratic congresswoman to Democratic senator to moderate Democratic senator that was sometimes a thorn in the side of the Democratic leadership. And now she's an independent. We sat down and talked about her decision just yesterday.

(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)

TAPPER: You're here to make a significant announcement.

SEN. KYRSTEN SINEMA, (I-AZ): I've registered as an Arizona independent. I know some people might be a little bit surprised by this, but actually I think it makes a lot of sense. A growing number of Arizonans and people like me just don't feel like we fit neatly into one party's box or the other. And so, like many across the state and the nation, I decided to leave that partisan process and really just focus on the work that I think matters to Arizona and to our country, which is solving problems and getting things done.

TAPPER: So your voting record is pretty capital "D" Democratic. Your views are generally that of a moderate, centrist Democrat. How does leaving the party change how you'll do your job?

SCHLICHTER: I don't think anything will change about how I do my job. Arizonans sent me to the United States Senate to be an independent voice for our state, and I'll continue doing that.

What I think is important about this decision and this move is I'll be able to show up to work every day as an independent and not be stuck into one party's demands of following without thinking. As we've seen in recent years, both parties have created this kind of requirement or a pull towards the edges that you just unthinkingly support all of one party's viewpoints. It's made it difficult to find folks who are willing to work together and solve problems.

Now, as you know, Jake, we've been able to do a lot of bipartisan work over the last couple years, and I'm incredibly proud of that. And I think it's important for folks across my state and, frankly, across the country to say, yes, there's someone that's kind of like me, doesn't fit neatly into one box or the other but is standing up for their values, for what they believe in, and is doing it without trying to get one over on the other party or beat the other guy.

TAPPER: So let's talk about practically what this means, because you're the chair of at least two subcommittees. You're a member of a number of important committees, including Veterans Affairs.

[08:05:07]

Does this mean that you're not longer going to be in those positions because you're no longer a Democrat and the Democrats control the Senate?

SINEMA: I intend to maintain my position on my committees and keep doing the work that I've been doing for Arizona. So I don't think that things will change in terms of how I operate or the work I do in the United States Senate.

TAPPER: So ever since Raphael Warnock, Senator Warnock, was reelected earlier this week, the balance of power right now is 51 Democrats -- or 51 votes for the Democratic Party, that includes two independents, Angus King of Maine and Bernie Sanders of Vermont. But that's 51-49. What you're doing today doesn't change that? It's still basically going to be 51-49?

SINEMA: I know you have to ask that question, Jake, but that's kind of a D.C. thing to worry about. What I'm really focused on is just making sure that I'm doing what I think comports with my values and the values of Arizonans. So when I come to work each day, it'll be the same. I'm going to still come to work and hopefully serve on the same committees I've been serving on and continue to work well with my colleagues of both political parties. And I'm not spending much time worrying about what the mechanics look like for Washington, D.C. And to be honest, I don't think anyone in Arizona is caring about that either. So I don't think things will change much for me, and I don't think things will change much for Arizonans.

TAPPER: It's also an unusual time because the Democrats in Washington feel really good right now. They actually picked up a Senate seat and picked up some governor seats. It's the first time the party that controls the White House actually gained Senate and governor seats since 1934. The wave that was supposed to come, the red wave didn't actually happen. Kevin McCarthy, or the Republicans, maybe Kevin McCarthy will be the speaker, but either way the Republicans will control the House, but not with the margins they were expecting. This is going to disappoint a lot of Democrats, and they're also going to feel they don't understand. Why would you do this at a time when the Democratic Party is having a good week?

SINEMA: I think folks at home from Arizona have known me for a very long time, and they know who I am. I've always been someone who is focused on getting results, getting things done. And I've never fit neatly into any party box. I've never really tried. I don't want to. And I think that's reflective of how most Arizonans live. Arizonans who aren't affiliated with either party are often the largest group of voters in Arizona. And even those who are affiliated with parties often find they don't fit 100 percent into that box. The reality is when we get up in the morning, we don't really think

about partisanship. Most people don't wake up and think, OK, I've got to get this Democratic breakfast on the table. I've got to get in my Republican car and go to work. That's not how real life is. I know it is in this town, but in the rest of the country, people are just living their lives. And so they're not thinking about who is winning and who is losing, but that's what the parties are thinking about, is how do we get one over on this guy? How do we ensure that we're punishing them? How do we continue to win?

And what I'm focused on, and I think the proof is in the pudding of the work I've done in the Senate, I'm really focused on getting results, like actually solving problems. And so removing myself from the partisan structure, not only is it true to who I am and how I operate, I also think it will provide a place of belonging for many folks across the state and the country who also are tired of the partisanship.

TAPPER: Well, there's going to be a lot of noise about this from the Democrats, from progressives, from the left. You know this, that because of your position working with Senator Joe Manchin of West Virginia to push back on some of the efforts, the legislative efforts, and change them and moderate them, you've already been a target of the left. And people have been very critical of you. They're going to call you every name in the book after this comes out. They're going to call you a traitor, they're going to call you an ingrate. What are you going to say?

SINEMA: I think I'll do what I always do, Jake, which is keep doing the work that I know is important for my state. I'm just not worried about folks who may not like this approach. What I am worried about is continuing to do what's right for my state. And there are folks who certainly don't like my approach. We hear about it a lot. But the proof is in the pudding. In the last few years in the Senate, as you and I have just mentioned, I've been honored to lead historic efforts from infrastructure to gun violence prevention to protecting religious liberty and helping LGBT families feel secure to the chips and science bill, to the work we've done on veterans' issues. The list is really long.

[08:10:02]

And so I think that the results speak for themselves. It's OK if some people aren't comfortable with that approach.

(END VIDEO TAPE)

COLLINS: Jake Tapper is with us. Jake, it's rare to just hear from Senator Sinema at that length. She doesn't do interviews like this. So that's remarkable in and of itself. A cynic will look at her answers that she gave to you talking about what life is like in Arizona compared to here in the beltway in Washington, but they'll say this has a lot to do with her running for reelection. What did you think?

TAPPER: It is rare, and I was actually very grateful. She gave us a lot of time, and we have much more of this interview that's going to air on "THE LEAD" today and then on "STATE OF THE UNION" on Sunday, talking about her political work, talking about her very humble upbringing.

So I've been thinking about what this actually means, because, as she said, she doesn't think much is going to change. She's hoping that she will keep her committee assignments. She doesn't really spend a lot of time caucusing with Democrats as it is. She didn't vote to make Chuck Schumer the majority leader last time, so her not doing it again this time isn't really going to have an effect. He's still going to be the Senate Democratic leader.

So what does this actually mean if she doesn't think it's going to change how she votes and it's not going to change how she does her job? I think there are two ways. One is that she no longer will be feeling a sense of obligation to do things because she is a Democrat. In other words, she won't feel the need to -- of course she has to endorse Joe Biden if he runs for reelection. So it's really about how she feels about the job she's doing and how she feels about whatever sense of obligation the Democratic Party puts on her, that's one.

And then two is the idea of her reelection. There's been a lot of noise about her being challenged from the left in a Democratic primary. Congressman Rubin Gallego, a veteran, and somebody who is more progressive, has talked for a while about possibly challenging her. That challenge now goes away, at least in the primary. She can't be primaried because she doesn't belong to a political party.

Does that make her reelection harder or easier? I don't know. I guess it depends on whether or not the Democratic Party puts up a candidate to challenge her. They don't do that to Bernie Sanders, who is an independent from Vermont. I don't believe they do that to Angus King, who is an independent from Maine. Both of those are reliably Democratic votes. I think she probably will be a little less reliable a Democratic vote than Bernie Sanders and Angus King, but generally speaking her politics are fairly progressive on most issues.

So maybe this makes it a little easier for her to be reelected if the Democratic Party doesn't challenge her in Arizona, but that remains to be seen.

HARLOW: Great interview. I can't wait to see more.

COLLINS: And notable, Jake, what you said there. She did not say she would endorse Biden in 2024.

HARLOW: A lot of news in that seven minutes, Tapper. Thank you.

TAPPER: Thank you.

COLLINS: And you can watch, as Jake said, the rest of that interview today. It's on "THE LEAD" at 4:00 p.m. to see more of that.

Also this morning, Brittney Griner touching down back on U.S. soil for the first time in 10 months one day after she was released from Russian detention in a one-for-one prisoner swap that involved the convicted arms dealer Viktor Bout. He's notorious. Griner landed in Texas, her home state, a few hours ago. Her release is being celebrated as a major win for the Biden administration. There's still a lot of questions, though. What would it take to bring back another American who is still wrongfully detained in Russia, Paul Whelan? He is a former U.S. Marine who was arrested in Russia on espionage charges in 2018.

A senior administration official told CNN the Biden administration has a few ideas about new forms of offers that they're going to try with the Russians in an effort to potentially secure his release. So joining us now is President Biden's National Security Council spokesman John Kirby. I first just want to start with Brittney Griner, seeing her touch down this morning, first time in 10 months. What have you heard about what she's saying on the flight back, how is she doing, and just how she's faring now that she's finally released?

JOHN KIRBY, NATIONAL SECURITY COUNCIL COORDINATOR FOR STRATEGIC COMMUNICATIONS: We've had a chance to talk to the team that traveled with her and met her on the ground. They tell us that she was in good spirits, obviously, the whole flight over, in good spirits now. She was incredibly gracious and kind and humble on the flight, very, very appreciative of the effort to get her home. Appears to be in good health, but we're going to make sure. That's why she's going to go to a medical treatment facility in San Antonio and get looked after, to make sure that we're taking care of her before she rejoins her family.

COLLINS: And you talked about this decision, it pretty much came together about a week ago. What was President Biden weighing as he was preparing to make the final signoff on this? Because you're turning over a convicted arms dealer in exchange for this WNBA star who had some minor offense?

[08:15:00]

Yes, not a -- not a decision you took lightly, obviously. Nobody is doing backflips that Mr. Bout is back on the street here. But the deal really kind of came together in the last week or so. And it just became readily apparent to the President and the entire team that it was either make this exchange, get one back. And the only one that they were willing to trade was Brittney for Mr. Bout or get none and leave her there.

And I can think we all would agree that no -- not even one more day in a penal colony for Britney was a good outcome. So, the President made that tough decision and executed the deal.

COLLINS: But Viktor Bout is a free man. He was convicted of conspiring to kill Americans. Are you concerned that he's a threat to Americans or to any other citizens of other nations?

KIRBY: Look, with any kind of exchange like this, we do a national security assessment. And that was the case in -- here with Mr. Bout, to take a look at what the risks might be. Again, we're going to be vigilant, we're going to watch. He's on the street now. He would have been free in six years. It's not like he was serving a life sentence.

And the thing -- the other thing I would tell you is that I think it speaks volumes about our confidence and our comfort in our ability to protect our national security interests that we were able to make this deal.

COLLINS: But what about concerns about him returning to selling arms? There's a war going on in Ukraine --

KIRBY: That's going to be a decision that Mr. Bout has to make. And if he makes that decision, if that's where he wants to go, then the United States will continue to hold him and anybody else that does that kind of thing. accountable. Again, I think it speaks to our understanding of our ability to defend our national interests that the President was able to make this deal.

COLLINS: On that front, the Pentagon says that there are concerns that Bout could return to the illicit national -- international arms trade. An official said, "I think there is a concern, he would return to doing the same kind of work that he's done in the past."

KIRBY: Again, a decision that Mr. Bout would have to make. And if he makes that decision --

COLLINS: But are you concerned about it?

KIRBY: We are always concerned about our national security interests. We're always concerned about actors out there, whether they're nation- states or individuals who would act in a way that would be inimical to our national security interests. And if Mr. Bout chooses that path, then you know, we will continue to make sure we can hold him accountable.

But we did a national security assessment. The decision was that this was a trade that we could make at this time. And we got Britain home.

COLLINS: Paul Whelan is still in Russia. He says he doesn't understand why he's still there. His family has been incredibly gracious, as we were just talking about --

KIRBY: Incredibly courageous.

COLLINS: -- about the release of Brittney Griner. It's been remarkable to see that. Has the President had a chance yet to speak with Paul Whelan directly about his decision-making here?

KIRBY: There hasn't been a recent call between the President and Mr. Whelan. We did speak to Mr. Whelan before the exchange happens so that he heard from us and not from the press that this was happening. And clearly, he's disappointed. We're disappointed. We would have loved nothing more than to get both of them back yesterday or today. Absolutely wanted that. But it just wasn't going to be possible.

The Russians are treating him differently, Kaitlan. They put him in a different category because of the sham espionage charges. And just there was no way to get him into this deal with Mr. Bout. So, we are going to keep working on this. We now have a much better understanding of where the Russians are on him. And so, we're going to use that knowledge and that context going forward. We're going to keep at that task.

COLLINS: The question though there, and this is critical is, who do you have to offer? You don't have another Viktor Bout that I'm aware of right now that is someone that the Russians want so badly.

KIRBY: We are in active discussions with the Russians about trying to get Paul home. And I think you can understand I'm not going to negotiate in public. So, we were looking at our options. We're going to keep looking at those options. And when we can get him back, we're going to do that.

COLLINS: Putin clearly was using his leverage here. What are your concerns about how that translates to what he's doing in Ukraine and how he plans to use leverage there?

KIRBY: I think a couple of points. First, this negotiation was done separate and distinct from the Ukraine issue. This is part and parcel of our efforts around the world to get Americans that are wrongfully detained home. And I think it would be imprudent for people to think well, you've got you -- got that done, so that can somehow relate to easing tensions over Ukraine.

Mr. Putin has shown no indication of stopping this war in Ukraine, no indication that he's willing to stop targeting civilian infrastructure or killing Ukrainian civilians. So, what we're going to do is maintain the pressure on him economically, politically, but also diplomatically. And we're going to make sure that we can continue to support Ukraine on the battlefield, providing them the security assistance, the weapons, the tools, the ammunition they need to continue this fight. And that's going to happen and it's going to happen in coming days.

COLLINS: This wasn't negotiated separately, but it still ties back to this. Do you think that he finally agreed to this deal because this was a deal that the administration made over the summer to get a win at home?

KIRBY: Again, I can't speak for his intentions. I think it's dangerous exercise to try to get inside Mr. Putin's head. They were very clear that they wanted Mr. Bout back. They were also clear that the only one that they would be willing to give up for Mr. Bout was Brittany. And that -- again, all that kind of came to fruition and closure in the last week. And so, that was the deal before us and that was the deal we took.

[08:20:16]

COLLINS: John Kirby, thanks you for joining us to talk about this important decision.

KIRBY: My pleasure.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: All right, Senator Kyrsten Sinema shaking up the Senate with her decision to switch her party affiliation from Democrat to Independent. We will be joined next by one of her Senate colleagues, Sen. Amy Klobuchar. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARLOW: Welcome back to CNN THIS MORNING. We are so glad you're with us live from Washington, DC this morning. It's a good thing we're here because Senator Kyrsten Sinema just sent shockwaves to the Senate announcing she's no longer a Democrat. She is now registered Independent. And the announcement comes just three days after the party celebrated a little bit of a cushion, a brand new 51-seat majority.

So, Democratic Senator Amy Klobuchar of Minnesota is with us. You're still a Democrat, right? I'm just checking.

SEN. AMY KLOBUCHAR (D-MN): Yes, I am.

HARLOW: OK, all right, so --

COLLINS: One more news to break.

HARLOW: Are you bummed? What do you think?

KLOBUCHAR: You know what, I'm still celebrating Raphael Warnock's victory. Let me make that clear.

HARLOW: OK, fine.

KLOBUCHAR: Number two --

COLLINS: But this matters.

HARLOW: No, no --

KLOBUCHAR: In terms of the Senate, that victory matters. Senator Sinema has always had an independent streak. I don't think I'm telling you anything that's a surprise. She has worked out agreements with Democrats and Republicans on everything from infrastructure to gun safety along with Chris Murphy and many others, to the recent work she did with Tammy Baldwin and Rob Portman on gay marriage.

I know for certain from watching Jake's interview and from reading the political story, that I don't believe this is going to shake things up quite like everyone thinks. She has committed to continue voting for judges that she believes are qualified. She has, of course, voted for Ketanji Brown Jackson, a number of Biden-appointed judges. She is going to continue to work with us and she's even -- you can point to some votes she's taken that were party-line votes with Democrats.

[08:25:47]

We already have two independents in the Senate, and that is Angus King and Bernie Sanders. They're different ideologically, but they register as Independents. And that's why I don't want to downplay the fact that she is an Independent and declared it today. But I want to be honest about the fact that I don't think it's going to greatly change the way the Senate is working right now and in any way take away from the victory that Democrats have. Because for all intents and purposes, Chuck Schumer is still the majority leader, and we will still be able to get a great number of the things done that we want to get done.

COLLINS: So, you trust that she'll continue to caucus with Democrats and vote with your party.

KLOBUCHAR: I don't know if she said how she was going to caucus, but I think she did say, I was -- what I read, she said that she was going to not change her -- she's been voting on a number of these basic votes that we take every single day. That is really significant. Because while the big issues get covered, every single day, we grind through these votes on judicial nominees, on appointments and the like. If she were to say, no, I'm going over Republican, I am not voting with them anymore, that's a whole different thing. That is nowhere near what she said.

And she has tended not to go to the caucus meeting, something she said, so I'm not like telling something out of school, except for rare moments where she's advocating for something she cares about. And that's not going to change either. So, I just point out, we have been living with Independents. I don't think people think of it that way. But that has been going on for quite a while.

COLLINS: It kind of sounds like you're saying you understand her decision.

KLOBUCHAR: I, having observed her and know her and worked with her on a number of things. It didn't completely surprise me now because she has voted independently a number of times and prides herself in that. I think the key is for us in moving legislation, does this change things? So, if a Supreme Court nominee opens up, if we had a chance of codifying Roe v. Wade, she's clearly for that and reproductive rights.

If we move on issues that are ones where we have to find some common ground in the middle, I don't think it's going to change things.

COLLINS: All right --

KLOBUCHAR: It may change things with Arizona politics, and that's too quick for me to comment on. No, that wouldn't work right now. I'd have to look at it. But it doesn't change things in the Senate for all intents and purposes.

HARLOW: You just brought up the Supreme Court and that is a huge part of being -- a critical part of being a senator is confirming justices. You sat in the Supreme Court for three hours this week as the justices heard arguments in this case, Moore versus Harper. And I've been obsessed with this case, as my colleagues on this program know. I'm trying to explain it to the American people why it matters. It's wonky but stick with me. You wouldn't have gone and spent that time if it didn't matter a lot.

You wrote in a brief in this in this case. This is about should partisan state legislatures have pretty much unchecked power to control voting and elections in this country. That's a little bit of a big deal in this moment.

KLOBUCHAR: Huge deal, Poppy. HARLOW: But what -- what did you take away from those oral arguments?

It seems like the justices didn't discount this independent state legislature theory and might find a narrower version of it to apply.

KLOBUCHAR: Well, what I saw there was actually compared to other arguments where you can predict what the conservative justices are going to say or ask, I thought they were -- a number of them were highly skeptical of this theory. And this is a conservative legislature in North Carolina.

HARLOW: You're not worried?

KLOBUCHAR: Oh, I get worried about everything with the Supreme Court. It's a conservative legislature that I'd say it's simply unconstitutional power grab. They said they didn't have to report at all for any, any decisions. None of their cases, none of their laws have to be reviewed by the state Supreme Court.

Here's what's unique on this case. leading conservative voices like Steven Calabresi, Ludwig, Ben Ginsberg. And all of the chief Supreme Court justices, including liberals and conservatives united on this to say this is out of whack. This is extreme. So, you have a different set of facts going into this case. I thought all the justices' questions were good.

Clearly, to me, Elena Kagan really captured it when she said, look, we have these checks and balances for a reason throughout our system. Sonia Sotomayor said the same thing. You saw Justice Roberts asking questions, well, added extreme, what would this mean?