Return to Transcripts main page

CNN This Morning

15 Million Under Winter Weather Alert Across 14 States; No Deal in Sight with 5 Days to Go Until Government Shutdown; Biden, Zelenskyy Speak as Ukraine Asks for Air Defense Aid; Alleged Bombmaker in Attack of Pan Am Flight 103 to Face Justice; Taylor Greene Says She Would've Led and Won Armed Insurrection. Aired 6-6:30a ET

Aired December 12, 2022 - 06:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[06:00:00]

CAROLYN MANNO, CNN SPORTS: I love it.

KRISTIN FISHER, CNN CORRESPONDENT/ANCHOR: No kidding. This should not delay his induction into the Hall of Fame. This should expedite it.

[06:00:07]

MANNO: Exactly.

FISHER: Carolyn Manno, thank you so much.

MANNO: Sure.

FISHER: And thanks, all of you, for joining us. I'm Kristin Fisher. CNN THIS MORNING starts right now.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(WIND)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: Wow, this is serious stuff here. Good morning, everybody. That video you're looking at, it's coming out of Lake Tahoe. This happened over the weekend. A very powerful storm hits the West. We're going to get to all of that this morning.

But did you guys have a great weekend?

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Well, last night was --

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: Hope nobody was on that ski lift.

LEMON: Yes. That's true. We're going to get to that. But we had a big night last night.

HARLOW: CNN Heroes.

LEMON: Yes. HARLOW: Always makes you feel better about the world.

LEMON: Yes.

HARLOW: And we have a special guest at the end of the show.

LEMON: Me?

COLLINS: You'll find out.

LEMON: Our heroes, right here. We'll talk -- it was a beautiful, beautiful nig ht.

HARLOW: Yes. You want to -- you want to meet the guest that's coming up.

We've got to get to the news. This morning, a major storm is bringing heavy snow and rain to millions and could bring possible tornados. Where there are blizzard conditions. Where is it headed next? Chad Myers standing by in the CNN Weather Center.

HARLOW: Also, just five days left to fund the government. We'll tell you what the sticking parts are this morning.

COLLINS: And he's only been out of prison in the United States for a a matter of days, but now the convicted Russian arms dealer, Viktor Bout, says, if he was given a chance, he would volunteer to fight in Putin's war in Ukraine.

LEMON: Right now, we do begin with that massive storm marching across the country right now. More than 15 million people, 14 states are under winter weather alerts this morning.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Craziness. It's crazy out there. Be careful. It's slippery.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Coming up, definitely be careful. It's slippery. Even in my car, I slid a few times.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It gets bad. They get bad. Sometimes really bad.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: You should know that storm has already dumped up to 5 feet of snow -- five feet -- in Northern California and soaked the Southern half with up to 7 inches of rain in some places and is headed East.

Depending on what part of the country you're in right now, you could see a blizzard. You could see torrential rain. You could see hail, damaging winds, possible tornados within the next few days.

We want to get straight now to CNN meteorologist Chad Myers.

Chad, good morning to you. This is serious stuff. Where are you seeing the biggest threat right now?

CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Well, you know, the biggest threat for the next couple days will be the blizzard conditions across the Western plains and then by the time we work our way into Tuesday afternoon, the potential, as you said, for tornados. And some of them big tornados, too.

This is almost a spring-type system to the South but a major snow event across parts of the Rockies.

You said five feet of snow in Silver Springs. And it snowed overnight. And it's still snowing, so those numbers are going to go up.

Snowing in the (UNINTELLIGIBLE), snowing in the Colorado Rockies. All the way across Kansas. This is how the storm marches. The winter part here, the stormy, the severe weather part down to the South in the warmer air. Almost a hybrid type system here where we have so much severe weather popping up for tomorrow and then so much snow with the blizzard-like conditions on the North.

Not unusual but very, very big in its own way. Wait til you see how much rainfall and snow spreads across the country this week. It is all the way from Georgia and still raining in L.A. right now.

There is the severe weather for today. Here's the severe weather for tomorrow. Here's the accumulating precipitation, from Georgia. Then all of a sudden in Nebraska it's changing all to snow and then snow all West of there in the cold. But look how much precip comes down with this storm, Don.

LEMON: A lot. Chad, we'll continue to check in with you. Thank you very much. We appreciate that.

MYERS: You bet.

HARLOW: Well, the clock is ticking this morning in Washington as Congress finds itself once again with just days left, five days, to be exact, to fund the government, keep it up and running, do their job and avoid the latest Republican threat to shut it down.

Democrats are looking to seal the deal on a full-year spending plan while Republicans, many of them, are trying to buy time until they take over the House in January.

Outsiders weighing in, very prominent names on Wall Street who know what a government shutdown means for the economy, like JPMorgan CEO Jamie Dimon, who says Congress should figure out a way to fund the government and iron this all out. Listen to him this weekend.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAMIE DIMON, CEO, JPMORGAN: They should, because the catastrophic effects of an actual default -- not the debates; I understand both sides, what they want -- how they want to use it -- is that's catastrophic or potentially catastrophic. I would never take that risk. So if it were me, yes, I'd get it done now, take it off the table.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Yes. Lauren Fox is live on Capitol Hill. I mean, he's absolutely right. If, you know, business leaders ran their business the way Congress is deciding to run this right now, they would never, you know, remain as CEO. Why should we be on the brink, like we were in 2011?

[06:05:02]

LAUREN FOX, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Poppy, this morning after these weekend negotiations, lawmakers moving forward but still not there on any agreement on this government spending deal. And the deadline is Friday.

They are still about $25 billion apart. That sounds like a lot of money. It really is just chump change when you're talking about the U.S. government budget. But it is significant, because it is where they've been for several weeks.

Right now, lawmakers are probably going to have to pass a short-term spending deal just to give themselves a little more time to try to continue these negotiations; but right now, they are really running out of options, Poppy.

And like you said, this is not the way most Americans, this is not the way most business leaders do business.

HARLOW: Can you explain what happens Friday if nothing happens? If -- I know there's talk about a continuing resolution or a short-term sort of fill the gap. But what if -- what if the sides are too at odds and nothing happens?

FOX: Well, right now, what we've heard from sources that I'm talking to over the weekend is that they are making some progress. They do feel like they are going to be able to come to some agreement to at least pass that short-term spending bill.

But after that, their options really are to try to find an agreement that has been elusive thus far or to spend the government spending the same way they've done for the last year.

And the reason that that could become a problem is, A, that's not the White House's preference, because they have all levers of government right now. They want to be able to set these levels how Democrats want them.

But obviously, Poppy, it is a major question whether they're going to be able to accomplish that before the holidays.

HARLOW: Let's hope so. Lauren Fox, thank you.

And now this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. President, did you speak to President

Zelenskyy today?

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Yes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COLLINS: That's President Biden confirming that he did speak with Ukrainian President Zelenskyy yesterday. The White House saying afterward that the president emphasized the U.S. would prioritize strengthening Ukraine's air defense systems.

This all comes as four Ukrainian strikes hit the Russian-occupied city of Mariupol yesterday, killing two, injuring ten.

CNN's Fred Pleitgen is live in Berlin.

And Fred, I know there's been a lot of conversations that Zelenskyy has been having with world leaders yesterday. He spoke with President Biden; obviously, the leaders of Turkey and France, as well. Now he's getting ready to virtually take part in this 7 meeting today.

What's the context of all of this? Because it seems to be coming as there's a focus of what the aid is looking like, but peace talks still appear pretty far off.

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: They do, Kaitlan, appear pretty far off, but it's certainly something where at least all sides seem to agree that some sort of peace talks at some point are going to have to happen.

But, of course, the U.S. and others are saying that first of all, the Ukrainians need to win as much territory back as possible. And that also seems to be part of what the president talked about yesterday with Volodymyr Zelenskyy.

Zelenskyy thanking the president for that next installment of the security assistance, $275 million this time. The sort of key items in that were additional ammunition for HIMARS, those very effective multiple rocket-launching systems, and then also about 80,000 additional rounds of 155-millimeter artillery shells.

So that's also something just to keep Ukraine in that fight and help them continue to win back some of their territory.

One of the other things that the Ukrainians also thanked the U.S. for was humanitarian assistance but also assistance to try and get their power grid back up and running after those massive Russian strikes that have been continuing for months now.

Zelenskyy telling the U.S. president that so far, about 50 percent of Ukraine's energy infrastructure has been hit. Obviously, the Ukrainians are saying that needs to constantly be repaired. It's a big task, the U.S. helping in any way it can, Kaitlan.

COLLINS: And Fred, as all this is going on, we're also hearing from Viktor Bout. You know, he's back in Russia. We saw him getting off the plane after that swap with Brittney Griner happened.

He's been speaking out. He talked about endorsing Russia's invasion of Ukraine. What else is he saying?

PLEITGEN: Yes, he pretty much said everything that Vladimir Putin wanted to hear. You know, there were so many people asking why this -- this guy was so important to Vladimir Putin. Certainly, he has been parroting a lot of the lines that Vladimir Putin was also using.

He did say that he wholeheartedly supports the invasion of Ukraine. Obviously, what the Russians call their special military operation. He also said that he believes that it should have started much sooner, and that's actually exactly what Vladimir Putin said about a week earlier, where he said he believed that the annexation of Donbas should have happened a lot earlier than it actually did.

Viktor Bout also saying that, if he could have, and he would have volunteered for Russia's invasion of Ukraine, if he had the skills to do so.

So he's basically saying everything that Vladimir Putin would like to hear, Kaitlan.

COLLINS: Yes. Not surprising. Fred, thank you.

LEMON: It is the second deadliest terror attack for Americans after 9/11. And this morning, one of the men the U.S. says is responsible is finally facing some justice, 34 years after Pan Am Flight 103 exploded over the tiny village of Lockerbie, Scotland.

[06:10:00]

The alleged bomb maker is in U.S. custody now.

The attack killed all 259 people on board that flight bound for New York, most of them Americans headed home for Christmas.

The U.S. first charged him two years ago while he was already in custody in Libya for unrelated crimes. Prosecutors say he traveled to Malta, where he met two other Libyan intelligence agents and delivered the suitcase used to carry out the attack, admitting that, quote, "He was instructed to set the timer on the device in the suitcase so that the explosion would occur exactly 11 hours later."

Let's discuss now. The timing in all of this is interesting. It's the anniversary.

CNN's chief law enforcement and intelligence analyst, John Miller, joins us now. He spent time in Lockerbie after the bombing. So thank you for joining us. We appreciate this.

Tell us about -- the suspect is Abu Agila Mas'ud, right? So tell us about the suspect, how investigators were able to get him.

JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT AND INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: So he is the missing link in this case. After Megrahi was released, you know, families were very upset. Megrahi was released from prison after his, basically, life sentence, because he had cancer; sent home, and he was said to have three months to live. He lingered for another three years in a villa, surrounded by his family.

So the families have been looking for what is the rest of this justice. Mas'ud may be that. He is pretty much the expert bomb maker for the -- Moammar Khadafy's Libyan intelligence agency.

And when you look at the fact that he traveled to Malta, where the bomb was placed on the process to get on the plane; that he left the day before the Lockerbie bombing; that there's a witness who can describe his role; that his fingerprints are on the boarding card that was recovered, there's a very strong case against him.

HARLOW: I was really -- I mean, 34 years later, as you said. I was really interested, because the reporting that I read didn't have any detail on how they were able to get him extradited.

MILLER: Well, Libya, of course, has been a very fragmented country since Khadafy's fall. He was captured by militia groups. He was held and put on trial by the provisional government after, with really, Khadafy's command staff of his intelligence agencies, which committed all kinds of atrocities during that regime. He was very much a background figure.

A documentary maker named Ken Dornstein, whose brother died on Pan Am Flight 103, went back to Libya, after the fall of Khadafy, through Switzerland, where the guy who made the little circuit board that controlled the timing of the board -- the bomb, then over to Germany, where German -- East German intelligence have kept intelligence files on the bomber's movements there.

Then through Libya, where he found contacts who were formerly with the intelligence service. And he put a lot of this together, actually matching FBI records that had become public, CIA records that had become public, and then pushed the puzzle pieces back at federal authorities and said these are the missing pieces. And they've moved forward with the case.

COLLINS: But can I quickly ask you, is this confession something that could actually be admissible?

MILLER: So that's not ideal, when a defense lawyer in a U.S. court goes at a confession extracted by Libyans in a very -- how do you say it politely? -- uncertain justice system after the fall of Khadafy.

But when you take all the other evidence that -- that was put together, way back in 1988: the boarding pass that shows he went to Malta, his fingerprint on it. The fact that he left right after the bomb was placed. The fact that he was the intelligence service's main technical expert on bomb making.

There's a lot more to the confession, plus a couple of live witnesses from the Libyan side who can string those things together.

HARLOW: Wow. LEMON: And it's interesting -- Poppy, you'd be interested in this.

HARLOW: What?

LEMON: The economic fallout from Lockerbie.

HARLOW: Yes.

LEMON: Because it ushered in the end of Pan Am, which we had the Pan Am building.

HARLOW: Right.

LEMON: Then the Pan Am building became the RCA building, and then RCA became the GE building and then Comcast.

HARLOW: All that.

LEMON: But the economic fallout, the end of an airlines; what it did on an industry. I mean, obviously, the families hurting, but that was a huge ripple effect from Lockerbie.

MILLER: It also, in the pre-9/11 world, which we thought is what rewrote the book on airline security, a tremendous effect on how we got onto an airplane and how cargo got onto an airplane after that.

That was a massive plastic explosive bomb. I say massive in terms of power. Probably 15 pounds of plastic explosives hidden inside a Toshiba boom box that was flying in cargo, with an electronic timer that could be set 24 hours ahead.

HARLOW: I just hope some -- some peace and some justice for these families. I mean, they've been waiting so long.

John, thank you --

MILLER: Thank you.

HARLOW: -- very, very much. John Miller.

We have a lot still ahead this hour. Why the Biden White House apparently isn't that worried about what Elon Musk is doing with Twitter, even though some Democrats are much more concerned.

[06:15:07]

Plus this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. MARJORIE TAYLOR GREENE (R-GA): If Steve Bannon and I had organized that, we would have won. Not to mention they would have been armed.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Oh, boy.

COLLINS: Sitting Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene, there suggesting she would have run -- she would have won the insurrection by being armed. We have a lot to talk about. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:20:19]

LEMON: I just want to say something. In that last segment, I confused the Rockefeller Center with the Pan Am building. I just realized that. I was out late last night, "Heroes." Sorry. A little groggy this morning.

So let's move on. Let's talk about Marjorie Taylor Greene. In a world of lies, conspiracies and divisive rhetoric, it is sometimes a tough call on which ones to give oxygen to and which ones to ignore.

But this morning, a sitting U.S. congresswoman suggests that, if she had been in charge of the January 6th attack on the Capitol, the crowds would have been armed, and they would have, quote, "won" the insurrection.

Speaking at an event hosted by the New York Young Republican Club, Marjorie Taylor Greene said this. Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GREENE: I come to Washington. I swear in on January 3rd. I get accused of giving insurrection tours, which I thought was hilarious, because I couldn't even find the bathroom in the Capitol. True story.

Then, when January 6th happens, the next thing you know, I organized the whole thing, along with Steve Bannon here. And I want to tell you something: if Steve Bannon and I had organized that, we would have won. Not to mention, it would have been armed.

See that's the whole joke, isn't it? They say that whole thing was planned. And I'm like, are you kidding me? A bunch of conservative Second Amendment supporters went in the Capitol without guns, and they think that we organized that? I don't think so.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Well, those are interesting comments, to say the least, considering how she felt during the attack. Greene messaged White House chief of staff Mark Meadows -- and I quote here -- "Please tell the president to calm people. This isn't the way to solve anything." Publicly, of course, a different tune.

Just a week and a half later, she pushed Meadows to stage a coup, getting the military involved so that Trump could stay in power.

Quote, "In our private chat with only Members, several saying the only way to save our republic is for Trump to call for Marshall [SIC] law." She spelled it incorrectly there. She justified that request by perpetuating the lie that led to the

violence at the Capitol in the first place, writing, "They stole this election. We all know they will destroy our country next" -- Kaitlan.

COLLINS: Well, Don, let's talk about more of this with CNN's senior political analyst and author of "Wingnuts," John Avlon; and CNN political commentator Errol Lewis, who's a columnist for "New York" magazine and the host of "You Decide" podcast.

One, they did bring weapons to the Capitol on January 6th, correct?

JOHN AVLON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes. They're saying -- what this congresswoman is saying is that they were insufficiently armed, right?

And -- and -- and she was playing to the crowd, but what she's basically saying is what we've been pointing out: without accountability, failed insurrections are just practice. She's saying that they would have succeeded and they would have come armed.

And that's a statement with real weight if you're a member of Congress. That's an endorsement of violent sedition. Like, make no mistake about it.

ERROL LOUIS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Sure. It would have been illegal to even bring weapons into the district, as she no doubt knows. It's -- it's the kind of thing where, in the name of being cute in front of the donors or whatever group she was -- she was addressing, she could talk herself into a grand jury.

I mean, this is not stuff to take lightly. This is a country that's on it's -- on the edge in a lot of ways. And if she really means this, you know, she should really repeat it under oath. I'd love to hear it.

LEMON: It's problematic for, I would say, for Republicans. And it's problematic especially considering where Kevin McCarthy is right now, trying to, you know, become the leader. I mean, what does he do about this, and does this affect any of that?

LOUIS: Well, she's -- look, the central problem for American politics and has been true for a number of years is what to do about these kind of extremists; not just the statements but the actions, the undermining of institutions, the undermining of elections and the faith in those elections.

So if -- if he can figure that out, he'll have a very successful speakership. I don't know that he can. I don't know that he can contain her. When people are going to say crazy things, you know, for money, or for attention, or for some combination of both, or in fact, because they believe it, you know, he's going to have to decide who gets the gavel, who doesn't, who gets the chairmanship, who doesn't. How much he's willing to fight with these people.

He's got the same problem as the rest of us. What do you do about the extremists? AVLON: Yes. And it's more difficult, because he's trying to thread the

needle with majority support. But, you know, let's be real clear about this.

For all those Republicans who pretended, you know, this was just a bad tourism day; nothing really happened. What Marjorie Taylor Greene just said, the quiet part out loud, as she is wont to do, is if we'd been organizing it, we would have been successful.

[06:25:07]

Successful in what? Overturning an election, our democracy. And why? Because we would have been armed.

HARLOW: You -- This is all -- actually, boils down to also the dangerous division, to say the least, in this country. And you have some interesting new data that actually should make us hopeful.

AVLON: Yes.

HARLOW: Really? Thank you.

AVLON: You're welcome.

HARLOW: Enlighten us.

COLLINS: What?

AVLON: I do think it's important to keep perspective. Right? We need to create a sense of context.

We've seen how schools, our schools have become front lines in the culture wars. They're used to divide us. We've seen that be a primary campaign tactic.

Well, there's a fascinating new study by a group called More in Common about defusing the history wars. And what they show is a lot of these divisions are exaggerated. They reflect what they call perception gaps, particularly along partisan lines when it comes to the teaching of American history.

Let me show you just one example. For example, a statement "All students should learn about the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution and how it advanced freedom and equality," 92 percent of Democrats agree with that statement. But only 45 percent of Republicans think Democrats support that view.

On the flip side, by the way, take a look at this statement: "It's important that every American student learn about slavery, Jim Crow and segregation."

This is the heart of the issue of so-called CRT panic.

HARLOW: Yes.

AVLON: Well -- HARLOW: Critical race theory.

AVLON: Critical race theory, thank you. Eighty-three percent of Republicans agree with that. But only 51 percent of Democrats think Republicans do.

The takeaway is there's a perception gap in our politics that doesn't necessarily reflect reality. And that's something that we need to focus on.

HARLOW: And Errol, you have made this point that I think is so appropriate here, that there -- some people have a vested interest in making sure that Americans don't act on that information.

LOUIS: Absolutely. I mean, there's a whole range of consultants and donors; and there's a lot of money at stake in trying to make sure that what you just showed is not perceived by people. That people think the other side is evil.

It's one -- you know, you can raise a little bit of money if somebody's got the same point of view as you. You can raise a lot more if you can convince them that the other side is evil, dangerous and a threat to the country. That's where the money really starts to roll in.

And it -- it's unfortunate, because you have media organizations that do it. You have -- you have consultants who do it. You have politicians who follow along -- Marjorie Taylor Greene, for example. And the next thing you know, we have a truly divided nation, in part because people are being misled.

AVLON: And why is that dangerous? Why is it so important to confront this? Is because, look, America is the only nation in the history of the world founded on an idea not a tribal identity. And that means we are uniquely dependent upon unifying stories about who we are as a nation.

That's why we need to be teaching history. We need to be teaching civic education. And what this study shows is that we can do this in a way without letting the extremes determine the agenda. They don't represent us.

LEMON: I think --

AVLON: Go on.

LEMON: I think you hit, but we didn't talk enough about it.

HARLOW: What?

LEMON: I think it's media literacy. Because I think people -- what you're saying, as I'm listening here, is that people -- we don't know each other. We don't sit down and actually talk to each other. We don't, you know, go to breakfast or dinner, whatever; that people sort of hang out with the people they know all the time. They're familiar with. HARLOW: That are like us.

LEMON That are like us. And so we don't -- and so people have -- I can only, in context of me and probably you and you. People think that I am a character or the caricature that they see on FOX News.

And when they actually meet me, they're like, well, you're not at all that person. Because they're getting their information about other people through the media. And I think that is a problem.

And when -- if you want, you know, when politicians come on here or other -- they want to own the libs. So as soon as they finish an interview here, they go to the conservative media and they say, I owned that guy on CNN. And then they go and they fundraise on it.

LOUIS: That's it.

LEMON: Right? And so -- and they are contributing to this -- so it's the politicians and, quite frankly, the media that contribute to the partisan divide. It happens on the left, but not nearly as much as it happens on the right. There's more anger on the right and more the media, the establishment. They are against us.

Again, it does happen on both sides, but pretty much it's -- am I wrong? Do you guys think I'm wrong about --?

LOUIS: It's interesting. I get inundated -- I'm sure all of us do -- with all kinds of, you know, sort of partisan fund-raising appeals.

LEMON: Right.

LOUIS: You sort of have to get into that system, just for news gathering purposes. And you never see anything saying, Here's me with my arm around somebody of the opposite party. Please send $50. Right? I mean it's just what you're saying. It's like, You should have seen the way I cracked down on them, and the horrible things that I said, and the extremist statements that I made. And it was -- and it showed up on television.

HARLOW: Remember Charlie Crist and Obama, I think? The hug? Was that them?

AVLON: It was Chris Christie.

LEMON: Chris Christie.

HARLOW: Chris Christie. Sorry. My Chris, you know. Right?

AVLON: And that was -- but that's what we've got to push against. And I think also reminding folks about all our interesting differences.

One of my favorite Don Lemons in the multiplicity of you is young Reagan Republican -- Reagan-supporting Don Lemon on a college campus in the South in the 1980s.

LEMON: And then I grew up. AVLON: And then you grew up. But you know what? But hold on, first of

all, not atypical young college student at the time. Reagan did very well with young voters.

[06:30:00]