Return to Transcripts main page
CNN This Morning
Federal Government Facing Possible Shutdown over Debt Ceiling Negotiations; Scientists Announce Possible Breakthrough in Nuclear Fusion for Producing Energy; Orange County, California, Officially Declares Racism Public Health Crisis; Los Angeles City Councilmember Accused of Racism Gets in Altercation with Activist; Interview with Sen. Angus King (I-ME). Aired 8-8:30a ET
Aired December 12, 2022 - 08:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[08:00:59]
DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: Monday, it's Monday morning. Good morning, everyone. Did you have a good weekend?
POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. I had a great weekend. A late Sunday at hero's which you'll see more of later.
LEMON: As is say, yes, I can't wait -- the hero is going to be here. The hero is going to be here.
HARLOW: She's amazing.
LEMON: She is amazing. Good morning, everyone. Thank you so much for joining us. It is December 12th.
We're going to catch you up on the five big stories on CNN this morning. More than 15 million people in 14 states are under winter weather alerts this morning as a storm system that dumped feet of snow in northern California heads east. The central part of the U.S. and the south are facing a multiday severe threat.
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: Also this morning, Congress is facing a looming government shutdown deadline as lawmakers are racing to try to seal a deal on a full year spending plan by Friday. Republicans and Democrats are still clashing, though, over the spending priorities and what those numbers are going to look like, including on social programs and the need to raise the government's borrowing limit next year.
Plus, President Biden and President Zelenskyy spoke yesterday on the phone. That conversation coming as Biden, the other G7 leaders, and Zelenskyy are going to have a virtual meeting this morning as the latest round of Russian airstrikes have targeted and damaged critical infrastructure in Ukraine, leaving many without power and heat as winter is setting in.
HARLOW: This morning, Brittney Griner is at a military facility in Texas after 10 months of Russian imprisonment. But we have learned the basketball star will spend some time there before she returns home. Her agent told ESPN that she had a light basketball workout in Texas on Sunday. No word yet on when she will officially, though, go home.
And a college student who is currently studying abroad in France is now being reported missing. The family of Kenny DeLand Jr. says they have not heard from him in more than two weeks. He is a senior at St. John Fisher University in Rochester, New York. Bank records show he last made a purchase at a store on December 3rd, but no one has seen him since.
COLLINS: But first this morning we start with the clock ticking in Washington, as this seems to happen almost every year. Congress finding itself with just five days left to keep the government funded and avoid the latest Republican threat to shut down the government potentially once they take over the House next year. Democrats are looking to seal the deal on a full-year spending plan, but some Republicans may be trying to buy time until January.
CNN's M.J. Lee is live at the White House this morning. M.J., what is the White House's sense of where these talks stand and if any progress is being made?
M.J. LEE, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Kaitlan, we know that everyone involved in the negotiations had a very busy weekend. One official I was talking to yesterday who has been involved in these talks said this time of year is the time of year when there is no weekend for people who work on these appropriations matters. The two sides are basically slogging through it right now. At this stage I am told the two sides are presenting to each other their various bottom lines. But by the end of the weekend they were still billions of dollars apart.
And even though we sense that there was some progress made over the weekend, we know that there are serious disagreements, particularly on spending on some of these priority domestic items. Republicans have basically been saying to Democrats you guys have spent so much money already this year on things like COVID, climate change and health care, so you shouldn't get as much next year. And Democrats have responded in kind. This was money that was absolutely crucial and necessary, and that shouldn't affect how much we get to spend next year.
COLLINS: And there's not going to be a government shutdown. But it seems also really unlikely they'll have an agreement on this hammered out by Friday. So what is the next step here that Congress is likely to take?
LEE: You're absolutely right that there is agreement right now that come Friday at midnight, which is when the funding runs out, there is not going to be a government shutdown. There is an agreement right now on both sides essentially that there will need to be some kind of short term measure that gets passed to buy everyone essentially a few days more time. So that's what people are talking about whenever you hear the term short term C.R., or continuing resolution.
[08:05:03]
And at least for the White House's part, they are still publicly saying, yes, something will get done on government spending, the government will be funded, there is a path, there is time. But right now the big question is when exactly is that going to get done and, of course, how.
COLLINS: We'll be waiting to find out. M.J. Lee, we know you'll be there on the White House lawn. Thank you.
HARLOW: This morning, use of the Keystone Pipeline has been paused after a huge leak. An estimated 14,000 barrels of crude oil spilled into a creek in northeastern Kansas, this happened last week. Homeowners along that creek are obviously devastated, huge environmental concerns. And this woman, who says the oil has spilled onto her longtime family farm.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We know we have pasture grass that's black that probably will have to be removed. Things happen, and we just have to repair it and move forward.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARLOW: So crews have been dispatched to work on the repairs and the cleanup. It is not clear when, though, the pipeline will be back up and running. And that means the 600,000 barrels of oil that flow through it every day are not also on hold.
LEMON: So we want to get now to a possible milestone in the pursuit of clean energy. Here is what "The Washington Post" is reporting, and the "Financial Times" as well, that scientists have made a major breakthrough using nuclear fusion with the Energy Department set to make a big announcement tomorrow. And for that CNN's chief climate correspondent, Mr. Bill Weir -- he's doing his own sound effects this morning.
BILL WEIR, CNN CHIEF CLIMATE CORRESPONDENT: I'm doing my own drumrolls.
HARLOW: You deserve it.
LEMON: Good morning to you.
(LAUGHTER)
LEMON: I guess so. Let's see how he gets through this. It's fascinating. Look, this fusion thing that people have been -- it's been so hard to achieve, and how it could change the game for the climate crisis.
WEIR: Yes. This is the holy grail of energy. Imagine a glass of water fueling your house for hundreds of years with no waste, cheaply, renewably. This is what they've said is just a decade away and always will be, is the joke, about nuclear fusion. Fission that we are familiar with splits atoms and creates all the nuclear waste that we know about. Fusion jams them together by basically creating a star in a box. You're creating the power of the sun and you're using hydrogen atoms, water, H20, right, and smashing them together. And up until now, the conventional way to do this was to use these massive magnets, magnets that are big enough literally to lift an aircraft carrier.
HARLOW: Wow.
WEIR: But the Lawrence Livermore laboratory, they decided to use lasers. And so they're heating up this hydrogen plasma, making it so hot that the reaction creates more energy that you put in. And so this could be a major breakthrough, Secretary Granholm expected to announce tomorrow.
COLLINS: The question is commercial use, right? When is it going to be something that's --
WEIR: It could be decades away. It could be decades away. But it's one of those things where you think nothing is going to happen and then something happens, and then it's all at once, right. And you're going past --
HARLOW: Decades isn't that long.
WEIR: It's not that long.
HARLOW: For this.
WEIR: And we're on the cusp, and there's other pathways to this that could have even bigger breakthroughs. But I think the bigger sense is, the lead-in to the story was another pipeline.
HARLOW: That's just what I was thinking. This doesn't have spills like that.
WEIR: Right, exactly.
LEMON: But there are implications, too.
WEIR: Of course. There are tradeoffs for everything, for wind and solar and all those. But you're looking for the least horrible options, and it's obvious that, depending on the fuels that leak and burn is what got us into this climate crisis. And the closer we can get to a better future, the faster the better.
LEMON: You were saying you were looking at water powering your home --
WEIR: It's the hydrogen atoms that's in a glass of water is the fuel source for this.
LEMON: I kept thinking from a family who grew up with two parents who worked for Exxon oil and chemical plants, they must be saying wait, what the heck is this all about? Are they happy about it?
WEIR: Well, anything that challenges the status quo business model, because that's the most profitable industry ever. But the smart ones will probably get behind these new transitions. And this is just one factor of a whole new -- I'm working on a special on this now, these ideas of things that are -- everything you can see in your physical world will have to be reinvented in some way or another. Energy sources, how you clothe and feed and shelter your children, everything is changes in the most dramatic ways moving forward. This could be major. This could be like a Wright Brothers moment for energy tomorrow if they confirmed this happened.
COLLINS: Yes, we'll see what Secretary Granholm says in her announcement. Bill Weir, thank you, as always.
LEMON: The future is now. We looked at all those movies for the future when we were kids, and now we're living it. Good to see you.
COLLINS: Thanks, bill.
Orange County, California, once a solid Republican stronghold, has now officially declared racism a public health crisis.
[08:10:00]
The resolution was unanimously adopted by the board. It's more than symbolic, though, because it calls for a review of county government policies and operations by an ad hoc committee tasked at identifying potential practices of concern. Areas of review will be county social services facilities, homeless shelters, hospitals, to ensure that underrepresented communities are not being inadvertently denied access. The resolution was sponsored by the Republican member of the Orange County California Board of Supervisors, Andrew Do, and was met with some contempt by some in the audience, one heard yelling an ethnic slur.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. CLAYTON CHAU, DIRECTOR, ORANGE COUNTY HEALTH CARE AGENCY: Thank you for passing this resolution.
Can I please speak? Can I please speak?
We need to have this resolution in this county. So with that I thank you for your work. Thank you.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Go back to China.
ANDREW DO, ORANGE COUNTY SUPERVISOR: Really, go back to China? And you think racism is dead. Really? OK, all right. So irony is a concept that's foreign to some of us.
For those of you who care enough to follow, I am far from the left, OK. I've been attacked more of my party affiliation than anybody on this board for the last eight years. So don't get on your soapbox and preach to me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: I don't really, I don't know what to say.
HARLOW: What did you say?
COLLINS: I said he pushed back against -- they were talking about what this is actually going to look like when it comes to these reviews of the systems. And obviously that was a moment there.
LEMON: And it gets us directly into what we're going to talk about now, and we can react to that one as well, because this one is out of Los Angeles. This is a city council in the throes of more controversy with councilmember Kevin de Leon facing scrutiny after dramatic video shows him in a physical fight with a community activist. That is not a good look, right? Earlier this year he faced calls to resign following leaked audio of a council meeting revealing that de Leon and other members, that they were making racist comments.
CNN's Nick Watt in Los Angeles for us. Good morning to you, Nick. The new video is stunning. But this is just another chapter in what has become a saga for the Los Angeles council.
NICK WATT, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: That's right. Listen, that audio leaked a couple of months ago. It was secretly recorded during a meeting on redistricting. A lot of very unpleasant things were said. Kevin de Leon, the Democratic city council member, clearly hoped that that had all blown over by now. He was trying to dip his toes back in public waters, and it really didn't go well.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Resign, Kevin.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Resign, Kevin.
WATT: Kevin de Leon is wearing the Santa hat, a wounded lion of L.A. politics. Green jacket, that's Jason Reedy, community activist.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You're a racist.
WATT: Then a quick descent into foul-mouthed face-off.
(SHOUTING)
WATT: The Santa hat falls. This was a holiday party.
OK, there is backstory here. In October some year-old audio leaked. City Council President Nury Martinez talking about a fellow councilmember and his kid.
NURY MARTINEZ, FORMER CITY COUNCIL PRESIDENT: There's nothing you can do to control him --
WATT: Translation, "little monkey."
MARTINEZ: This kid needs a beatdown.
WATT: She apologized and later resigned. On that tape she also said a Councilman Mike Bonin uses his son like an accessory. De Leon appeared to agree, made a joke.
KEVIN DE LEON: Just like when, just like when --
RON HERRERA: We used to have those statues in the plantations, didn't they?
DE LEON: And when Nury brings her Goyard bag or the Louis Vuitton bag, el trae su accessory.
WATT: Officially censured, de Leon has been laying very low, clinging hard to power, expressing regret but refusing the resign. De Leon is high-profile. Took a tilt at the L.A. mayor's job this year, served as president pro tempore of the state senate, ran in a primary for a U.S. Senate seat, well known enough to go by an acronym, KDL. He claims Jason Reedy was the aggressor. "Reedy launched a pelvic thrust followed by a headbutt to my foremade," de Leon said in a statement Saturday. "My response in defense of myself was to push him off me."
Reedy gave this video from the LAPD. We're awaiting on comment from police. Reedy "did not initiate physical contact with anyone," his lawyer told CNN. "Not only has Kevin de Leon lost all political legitimacy, his claims he was the one attacked here simply underscores how he's lost touch with reality," while appearing to grab hold of a constituent.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
[08:15:00]
WATT (on camera): Now, all this comes at a moment of history for Los Angeles. Yesterday, Karen Bass was sworn in as the first female Mayor of the city, the first female of color to serve as Mayor of the city and she has serious things to deal with.
She is going to declare a State of Emergency on homelessness, more than 40,000 people are homeless in this city right now.
So with all that as the backdrop, Don, as you say, wrestling like this really is not a good look.
LEMON: Not a good look, especially from our leaders or from anyone really.
Nick Watt, thank you very much.
HARLOW: Well, if you ride the subway in New York City, like we do daily, well, it's going to cost you more. The city's public transportation is going to be three bucks. We'll talk about that, what is driving possible price hike.
COLLINS: And reaction across Washington and the nation after Senator Kyrsten Sinema announced that she was leaving the Democratic Party, Independent Senator Angus King who made the same move in 1993, who is also an Independent is going to join us to discuss.
LEMON: There he is. He is over the coffee at the breakfast nook. HARLOW: At the breakfast nook. I want some breakfast.
LEMON: I actually did --
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: All right, a lot of reaction pouring in after Arizona Senator Kyrsten Sinema announced she is leaving the Democratic Party, now becoming an Independent.
Senator Bernie Sanders says that Sinema's decision is likely due to politics he believes in her home state, not in Washington.
[08:20:12]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I-VT): I think the Democrats, they're not all that enthusiastic about somebody who helped sabotage some of the most important legislation that protects the interests of working families and voting rights and so forth.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Joining us now is independent Senator Angus King from Maine, who first ran as an Independent as the Governor of Maine back in 1994.
You've got another Independent. What's your reaction?
SEN. ANGUS KING (I-ME): My Caucus just increased by a third. I don't know who is going to be Chair, but when you have Sinema, King, and Bernie, that's a pretty broad section.
But it actually says something. Because, you know, there's a lot of speculation that she is trying to avoid a Democratic primary. One of the problems with primaries today is that they tend to favor the activists on either side, Republican or Democrat.
And so somebody who does reach across the aisle has trouble. You can lose your seat in a primary not because of your position on immigration or any of those kinds of things, you can lose your seat because you're viewed as someone who talks to the other side.
I have a Republican friend, he was facing a primary in the Senate. I said, "What are they going to charge you with? You're conservative as hell." He said, "They're going to charge me with being reasonable." Think about that for a minute.
COLLINS: And a question of Arizona, though, we talked about the makeup of the Senate, the structure, but in Arizona, if she does run for reelection, which she hasn't said she'll do yet, but if there is a three-way race between a Republican, a strong Democratic candidate, and Senator Sinema, does that complicate things for Democrats come 2024?
KING: Of course it does. Well, it'll be a complicated race, because if you run as an Independent, you either have to win, or you're a spoiler.
COLLINS: Get handed to Republicans.
KING: And that's the that's the danger. That's the situation.
But, you know, go back, Lisa Murkowski would not be reelected to the Senate. She's one of the best senators in my view. But it was rank choice voting in this kind of jungle primary idea where everybody can run, it doesn't matter what party because there used to be something like a hundred balanced, competitive House districts; now, there are like 10, where it's all, you know, Republican or all Democratic, and that's not good for the country.
If people come to Washington afraid to talk about solving the problems, we'll never get there.
LEMON: Because you mentioned the whole spoiler thing, right? We have somebody, Kyrsten Sinema actually talking about that, criticizing someone for doing the exact same thing, Joe Lieberman that she is doing. Watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. KYRSTEN SINEMA (I-AZ): So what does that mean? Well, in the Senate, we no longer have 60 votes, some would argue that we never had 60, because one of those was Joseph Lieberman. But, whatever.
Yes, and Nelson, too, but really, Lieberman.
So now, there's -- I think, as the President so eloquently said on Wednesday, there's none of this pressure, this false pressure to get to 60. So, what that means is that the Democrats can stop kowtowing to Joe Lieberman, and had said, seek other avenues to move forward with health reform.
And so it's likely that the Senate will move forward with a process called reconciliation, which takes only 51 votes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: So that's the whole point of trying to having to appeal to, you know, your party rather than doing sort of what you think is right. Am I wrong about that?
KING: No, no, you're not wrong. But as I say, the issue is primaries, Don. About 20 to 25 percent of the members of a party vote in a primary. Who are those 20 to 25 percent? They are the activists, the people that are in the Democratic side, moreover toward the progressive on the Republican side, moreover toward MAGA and conservative.
So somebody who will listen and talk -- Kyrsten Sinema, you know, she -- you watch C-SPAN on a vote, and you'll see all this milling around, and she is around all over the hall. She's talking to Republicans to John Thune and John Cornyn and Mitch and over the other side.
And frankly, we need that kind of thing where we can reach some kind of organic group in the middle that can build out.
All of these major things that we've accomplished this year, the Infrastructure Bill, the Pact Act, the veterans bill, the Chips and Science Act, all came from people getting together on both parties and building a consensus outward and that's really I think, the way it has to work.
So I understand what she is doing, and don't really criticize it. You can say, well, she's trying to avoid a primary. I think you have to look deeper than that and say, "Where are we with this primary system?"
If Lisa Murkowski had had to run in a Republican primary in Alaska, she'd be gone, and we would have lost one of our very best senators.
[08:25:09]
HARLOW: I liked this moment you were on "60 Minutes." I think it was last year. It's quick. But I want people to watch what you said about being an Independent. Here you were.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KING: I have no automatic friends in the legislature, but I also don't have enemies, I have 186 skeptics.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARLOW: I like that.
KING: That's when I was Governor, but I had to build every issue. I had to build my own coalition every time.
HARLOW: It goes to the question I had, which is, do you think many more of your colleagues should become Independents?
KING: I think that's a lot of where the public is. The problem is the structure is such that the two-party system really dominates how everything is set up, how you get on the ballot.
And the other part is, and I was fortunate running as an Independent for Governor of Maine, because we'd had an Independent Governor 20 years before, so it was thinkable.
The hardest thing for an Independent is to convince the voters that they're not wasting their vote, that it is not, you know, a flaky side hussle.
HARLOW: Spoiler to Don's point that it's actually.
KING: Yes, you've got to convince them that you're for real. But I think, you know, in my view, when I ran for Governor, my view was that there's a road down the middle.
HARLOW: Right. KING: And we had just had a government shutdown. In Maine, the
politics was very polarized. So I came in at -- my timing was very good.
HARLOW: Let's turn to some topics if we could, yes, government funding and what the heck is going to happen? Would you agree that funding the government is one of the most important jobs of a sitting Member of Congress?
KING: You think? Absolutely, of course, it is.
HARLOW: I mean, it is like, I kind of ask in jest, but not really, because you guys, I'm not pointing to you, but the collective keep getting here.
KING: It's ridiculous. I mean, September 30th was the deadline. Again, not to go back too much when I was Governor, but we had a trouble getting a budget one year and a part of the legislature came to me and said, "Let's do a continuing resolution like they do in Washington." I said, "Not on your life."
HARLOW: No way.
KING: Once you open that door, it's just too damn easy.
So will we get it done? Yes. Will it happen? Probably, I predict Christmas Eve, a couple of days, you know, in that area.
LEMON: Oh, boy.
KING; It should be -- it should have been done a long time ago. They are trying to agree on what's called a top line. Once they agree on a top line for Defense and non-Defense, then you can do the rest.
What's happening? We passed a major veterans bill, and I think the negotiation is Defense, non-Defense, and Veterans. In other words, put the veterans in a different category, and I think that may be helping them to get to a deal.
The last time I talked to people on Friday was they were close, but I think you outlined it, your reporter outlined it very well that that the Republicans basically say, look, we've had enough domestic spending, you don't need -- we don't need parity here, and that's where the argument is.
COLLINS: Okay, but I am going to put you in the spot here. Because if there is no agreement, would you support a one-year continuing resolution?
KING: Well, I'd have to. I mean, that would be -- that's the second worst outcome. The worst outcome would be a shutdown.
LEMON: Right.
KING: And if that's the option, but a one-year continuing resolution would be terrible. We couldn't fund Ukraine, we couldn't fund any of the new initiatives, we couldn't fund -- you know, I mean, it would just -- it would be terrible for Defense.
I'm on Armed Services, I can tell you, it would be devastating for the military.
COLLINS: Another big thing that we've talked about is the Electoral Count Reform Act, which for people at home are like what? It is basically what Congress has been trying to pass that would prevent what Trump did, which was trying to take advantage of that and say, what Pence is --
KING: That is my highest priority for the next two weeks.
COLLINS: But the question is, if it does not, if the Senate doesn't act on it by the end of the year, the process is going to start again. I mean, it goes back to the House, the House is going to be controlled by Republicans.
KING: It won't happen. They've already said, I don't think the Republicans have the least interest in fixing the Electoral Count Act.
Although, they ought to stop and think for a minute. I mean, one of the things we do in this reform, is make it clear that the Vice President doesn't have the power to throw out votes, which is what Donald Trump wanted Mike Pence to do.
I don't think they've woken up to the fact that the Vice President two years from now is going to be Kamala Harris. They ought to be on -- this is a reform that ought to make sense to both parties.
LEMON: Okay, so then why?
KING: Why isn't it done?
LEMON: Why isn't it done? And why the tribalism on something that seems to make sense. It's commonsense.
KING: You're making too much sense.
COLLINS: Line of the morning, Senator.
KING: But no, well, the Bill came out of this Committee, out of the Rules Committee, 14 to one, Mitch supported it.
HARLOW: Yes.
KING: All the Republicans except one. Guess. Can you guess who the one was?
HARLOW: Kaitlan knows everything on the -- I don't know.
KING: Ted Cruz.
LEMON: But here's the thing, didn't the Midterms show us that the American people want things done in Washington rather than just --
KING: Of course. Of course. [08:30:10]
