Return to Transcripts main page
CNN This Morning
Dr. Gupta: On 2-Year Vaccine Anniversary, Are We Back To Square One?; GOP's Mace Confronts Liberal Activist Over Threatening Rhetoric; Parents Speak To Don About Public Versus Private School. Aired 7:30-8a ET
Aired December 14, 2022 - 07:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[07:30:00]
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Let's just put that back up for a second.
Two hundred three million were in that vaccinated group. That's 7,800 who died. In the unvaccinated group, there was 5,200 people out of 55 million. Now, look at the bottom there. That means in the vaccinated there were 38 deaths per million people versus in the unvaccinated, 95 deaths per million people.
POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Ninety-five.
DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: Oh.
GUPTA: Two and a half times greater. That's called a base rate fallacy. It's a lot for 7:00 in the morning, I realize, but it's important to really dig into these statistics.
Also, one other quick thing. There's something known as Simpson's paradox and people can Google this and look it up afterwards. But basically, it's the old causation versus correlation thing.
Yes, you're more likely to die from COVID if you're older -- we know that. Yes, you're more likely to have been vaccinated against COVID-19 if you're older. That does not mean that vaccination is more likely to lead to death. That's the Simpson's paradox.
So people are using these raw numbers and basically making assertions that the vaccines are not safe. That they are more likely to lead to death. If you just take the extra beat of looking at that data a different picture emerges.
LEMON: Dr. Gupta, also, I wanted to talk to you about your minivan.
(Laughter)
GUTPA: That's a whole different study.
HARLOW: He doesn't know -- he doesn't know what you're talking about.
LEMON: We had this chat with --
GUPTA: I'm a father of three teenagers.
LEMON: We had the transportation secretary --
GUPTA: No, I hear you.
LEMON: You saw it? You know what I'm talking about. OK, go on. Well, you know what our texts are about your minivan all the time.
GUPTA: I have three teenagers, Don, and I'm not -- I'm not as cool as you. I'm not as cool as you.
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: I think you're pretty cool.
LEMON: We think you're cool. I'm just messing with you, Doctor. Thank you.
COLLINS: Thanks, Sanjay.
LEMON: And three beautiful, beautiful teenagers.
GUPTA: You got it.
LEMON: Thank you -- a great family. Thanks, Sanjay.
HARLOW: I mean, thank God for him --
LEMON: I know, right?
HARLOW: -- and know his numbers.
LEMON: I'm like --
HARLOW: Because there's so much misinformation out there.
LEMON: I'm glad he points all of that out because there is a lot of misinformation and we need people like Dr. Gupta to point that out.
HARLOW: Base rate --
LEMON: And you can check it out.
HARLOW: -- something.
LEMON: Base rate -- I don't know.
HARLOW: Denominator.
LEMON: Yes, denominator.
HARLOW: Thank you, Doc.
LEMON: Check it out -- cnn.com. His essay is there. Appreciate it.
OK, a Republican lawmaker calling out a liberal activist at a congressional hearing discussing threats to democracy for threatening posts -- the witnesses -- the witness, I should say, made in the past.
Plus, this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BTS, K-POP BOY BAND: Singing "Shining Through the City."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Boy band boot camp. One of the members of BTS is heading off to the military. We'll tell you what's expected there, next.
LEMON: These guys are -- are they like crazy, crazy popular? I don't know.
HARLOW: Yes.
LEMON: I have no idea who they are.
HARLOW: Even I know that.
COLLINS: Don't say that because they'll come for you.
LEMON: They will?
(COMMERCIAL)
[07:36:43]
HARLOW: Did that say WCCO. Was that Minneapolis? Thanks, guys. Welcome back. Thanks, guys. I'm missing home this morning.
LEMON: Oh my God.
HARLOW: You knew how much I loved home --
COLLINS: Poppy's (INAUDIBLE).
HARLOW: -- when I signed up for this.
LEMON: Oh, boy.
HARLOW: All right. So, coming up for us this morning, Republican Congresswoman Nancy Mace calls on a witness in an oversight hearing on threats to democracy for calling on people to accost Supreme Court justices in public.
Plus, you don't want to miss Don's conversation with parents and educators about private and public schools.
And the 10th anniversary of Sandy Hook -- it is today. Just ahead, you will hear from a survivor, now 17 years old. She was in second grade when her school was attacked. Her childhood, she says, was lost as a result.
COLLINS: As Poppy was saying, Congresswoman Nancy Mace called out a witness at a House oversight hearing yesterday. It was focused on anti-Democratic extremist groups -- the threat that they pose to democracy.
Mace, as you know, is a Republican congresswoman from South Carolina. She started her time asking the witnesses a few yes or no questions like these.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. NANCY MACE (R-SC): Do you believe that rhetoric targeting officials with violence for carrying out their constitutional duties is a threat to democracy, Mr. Ward, Mr. Segal?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Then, Congresswoman Mace turned her attention to Alejandra Caraballo, an LGBTQ rights activist and instructor at Harvard Law, and some of her past tweets.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MACE: Only a few weeks after the attempted attack on a Supreme Court justice on June 25, one of the witnesses, Alejandra Caraballo, tweeted out the following in response to a decision on abortion overturning Roe V. Wade. And I'll quote directly from the tweet.
"The six justices who overturned Roe should never know peace again. It is our civic duty to accost them every time they are in public. They are pariahs. Since women don't have their rights, these justices should never have a peaceful moment in public again."
I know something about being accosted. The night of January 5, I was physically accosted on the streets of D.C. in the Navy Yard by a constituent of mine. I fervently blamed rhetoric on social media, rhetoric at public events -- for being physically accosted.
I carry a gun everywhere I go when I am in my district and I'm at home because I know personally that rhetoric has consequences. I have had my car keyed. I have had my house spray-painted. I had someone trespass in my house as recently as August. I've been doxed on social media about where I live.
So my last question today of Ms. Caraballo, do you stand by these comments -- this kind of rhetoric on social media, and do you believe it's a threat to democracy? ALEJANDRA CARABALLO, LGBTQ RIGHTS ACTIVIST, INSTRUCTOR AT HARVARD LAW SCHOOL: Thank you, Representative, for the opportunity to clarify and provide context to my tweets.
MACE: I have a question -- is it yes or no? Do you believe your rhetoric is a threat to democracy when you're calling to accost a branch of government -- the Supreme Court?
[07:40:02]
CARABALLO: I don't believe that's a correct characterization of my statements.
MACE: But you tweeted that. Did you not tweet that?
What happened to the speaker's husband is every member's worst nightmare. So it's clear to me that we have to call out the threats to our democracy emanating from wherever they come, whether it's the right or the left.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Quite a grilling.
HARLOW: Yes.
LEMON: Uh --
HARLOW: Facts.
LEMON: -- I think she's -- listen, we've all had to deal with it -- some of us more than others. She -- obviously, it's awful what --
HARLOW: Happened to her.
LEMON: -- Mace has had to deal with.
But I think it's right. The rhetoric has to be toned down. I hope Elon Musk is listening. I hope that people who run social media -- I hope they are listening to this.
And everyone should have that same energy. Republicans should have the same energy about if it happens on their side. Democrats should have the same energy if it happens on their side as well because it has to be toned down. What you end up with -- people getting hurt or a January 6.
COLLINS: And you saw, like, with Justice Kavanaugh, as she was talking about.
LEMON: Yes.
COLLINS: Those threats (PH).
HARLOW: A gun outside his home -- yes.
LEMON: Yes.
HARLOW: OK. So this is -- I can't wait to see this --
LEMON: Yes.
HARLOW: -- what you did. OK, so public or private school, the debate is hotter than ever after the effects of the pandemic on schools on learning loss. Don sat down with educators and parents to talk about the state of education in America today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Are you guys affected by all of the -- you see the rigamarole happening at school board meetings and about curriculums? And does that seep into what you're doing, or do you keep above that?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL)
[07:45:47]
LEMON: So, parents -- I want you to listen up. This conversation is for you. The effects of the pandemic on schools and learning loss is still playing out all across the country. And after the death of George Floyd, the debate on how race is taught in schools still ongoing. So is the conversation about what books should be in school libraries. Plus, districts facing continued staffing shortages and strikes.
All of this forcing parents to make tough decisions about their kids' education -- many of them now choosing private schools. Public school enrollment in the U.S. has dropped since 2019 by the millions and estimates say that it will continue to decrease into the next decade.
It's such a complicated time for parents and educators, so I wanted to hear from them. I want you to listen to this very candid conversation about what this group believes is best for their children. Here it is.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LEMON: So, I'm so glad that all of you are here. So let's get right into the conversation with our parents and our educators.
I'm going to start with you, Colleen. You have two children, one in private and one in public school. That's a good reason to get started with you. You say both options are good but you prefer the private school. Tell us about your situation and why.
COLLEEN PAPARELLA, PRIVATE AND PUBLIC SCHOOL PARENT: You know, I think that different options are good for different kids, and I definitely prefer the private school for my daughter. She needed a smaller environment. The COVID-19 pandemic is definitely what precipitated the move. But it's just been wonderful for her socially and academically to be in that smaller environment. Also, there's a lot of research about keeping kids in the same place, K through eight, and just that's better for them overall than having more transitions with a separate middle school. I think she's somebody who could benefit from that.
But our public school is phenomenal. I'm super happy with that, too. I'm a room parent there. I'm there all the time, and my son is thriving there. So I think different kids just have different needs.
LEMON: So, from -- I'm from the south, so Ms. Colleen, we'll go to Ms. Chantele. Ms. Chantele, you say that you considered public school for your child for a short time. But what was it that private -- that private school offered that public school in your Pittsburgh community didn't offer for you and your child?
CHANTELE MITCHELL-MILAND, PRIVATE SCHOOL PARENT: I think one of the things that the private school offered was an additional mentoring support. So there were mentoring programs that were available to individuals who qualified to help with that transition to high school. And -- but the public schools that we had access to at the time -- they weren't going to offer the rigor that we were looking for to make sure that they were ready for their next career stages.
LEMON: Beth, listen, I think it's -- we should go to you because you're an educator -- you're a public school teacher -- and get your response to this. What do you say?
BETH LEWIS, PUBLIC SCHOOL TEACHER, PARENT OF TWO CHILDREN IN PUBLIC SCHOOL: Yes. I mean, I've been a teacher in Arizona for over a decade and I think that I've seen the shrinking of resources that we're talking about, but I will absolutely always choose public schools as an educator and as a parent.
The main differences that I see have qualified trained professionals. You know, teaching is a science and a profession.
LEMON: Rodney, I want to get you in here because as I understand, you're a private school educator and you say that you would probably never go into public education.
RODNEY GLASGOW, HEAD OF PRIVATE SCHOOL, SANDY SPRINGS FRIENDS SCHOOL: (Laughing).
LEMON: Why is that?
GLASGOW: I -- yes. I'm the head of a private school. And I would say for my own self, I would never go into public education because I was a private school product myself. I started in public schools with my youngest age from kindergarten to fifth grade, and then I was in Gilman School from sixth grade to 12th grade. So I just believe and am familiar with private education.
LEMON: Well, let me ask you this because you say -- you say that you think that our educational system is set up to perpetuate classism and that you struggle with that because you feel like that you're a part of that. So, that's an interesting take. Explain that, please. GLASGOW: And I think that goes public and private, right? Some folks have already named that the public education system is really based largely in the neighborhoods and regions that you live in, which we know are stratified by race and by class. That's on the public school side.
[07:50:05]
On the private school side, we know our tuitions are $20,000, $30,000, $40,000, $50,000, $60,000, $70,000 a year and that creates a class stratification.
Why I believe in private education around this -- my own self, having grown up low-income in Baltimore, one of the things that broke the cycle of poverty for my family was access to private education. That put me in a network that then got me from there to Harvard, to Columbia, to a doctorate from G.W.
LEMON: Denise, I want to bring you in. You have been patiently standing by but I know that you have lots to say here. So, let me just inform the viewers you went to a private religious school. You considered having your son go that route but he felt like public school was better -- was a better fit for him. You were even willing to pay for private even though it was beyond your family's reach at the time.
Why did you want him to go to private school?
DENISE RUMBAUGH, PUBLIC SCHOOL PARENT: Growing up, going to a private Christian school, I felt that -- I went to both. A private Christian school and a public school.
The private school was much further advanced in the studies -- just in learning. It was much more challenging but yet, I learned more in the private school. The class sizes were smaller. You had more individual attention from the teachers.
We sat down as a family and discussed it and I had suggested a private school just for the benefit of a smaller class size and a better education. And my son just didn't want to do that.
He wanted to be in his public school in our area -- which is a very good school, I might add. He wanted the option of more sports, clubs, and the diversity that goes along with being in a public school. And just being around different people and different cultures, which our county is just phenomenal for different cultures.
LEMON: What about you, Dountonia?
DOUNTONIA S. BATTS, PUBLIC SCHOOL PARENT: I'm extremely happy. I have two children in public school and my youngest started taking college courses as a freshman in high school, which kind of shocked me. And previously, he was considered underperforming in the private school.
LEMON: Oh, wow. BATTS: But, you know -- and he had very little self-esteem when he was there, too. He had a teacher that wasn't very understanding of a different culture and labeled him as something that he wasn't, and discovered how bright he was when he got to the public school --
LEMON: Yes.
BATTS: -- and is excelling. He's --
LEMON: What do you mean by labeled him as something that he wasn't?
BATTS: My son characterized himself as I'm just not smart enough --
LEMON: Wow.
BATTS: -- based on a couple of teachers that he had encountered. He's more shy and reserved and very inquisitive and just didn't really fit in at the private school, and it affected his grades. He was very disorganized. Did not perform well. But he was bright and tested well into all honors at the public school and started taking college courses as a freshman.
LEMON: So, I'm just going to ask you and you can -- are you guys affected by all of the -- you see the rigamarole happening at school board meetings, and about curriculums? And does that seep into what you're doing, or do you keep above that and keep your eyes --
LEWIS: I --
LEMON: -- focused on the problem?
Go ahead, Beth.
LEWIS: In Arizona, we have seen these culture wars played out probably harder than any other state in the country, and it's affected our teachers. We have a lot of teachers that are leaving the profession and it's really sad.
And some of the people who manufactured these sort of fake CRT crises have said that they wanted to usher in universal vouchers. And we have that in Arizona. We're the first state that has. And I want to point out that right now, that's just subsidizing the people who were already choosing private school.
Our public school enrollment keeps going up, so our class sizes are growing. I just think it's important to point out that 92 percent of our families are choosing public schools in Arizona even when offered a free voucher to private school.
LEMON: Yes. I see two people who are shaking their -- well, three, I should say. Rodney, Dountania, and Colleen are like yes, yes, yes, whatever.
So, Rodney, first.
GLASGOW: You know, I'm thinking about your question and the answer around the curriculum and the pushback. Independent schools are definitely seeing that. And remember that most private schools, as we know it, started as white flight schools that were leaving public education so they could buffer themselves and some of their diversity, and some of their curriculum innovation that we've been talking about this morning. And so, now, as the country sort of lulls back into conservatism, we are seeing some independent school parents push back.
What I love about our schools is we're seeing our schools stand firm to say again, these are the values that we are professing as a school. And the great thing about independent schools is these are the values that you literally bought into.
[07:55:05]
And so, I mean, it's an interesting tension there with the private schools because, of course, no one has to be in our schools.
LEMON: Yes.
GLASGOW: People choose to be.
LEMON: So, Colleen, I want to get to you because I'm wondering if you're caught in the middle because you're a private and public school parent. I saw you shaking your head vigorously as well when Beth said that sort of thing about CRT and all of that has seeped in. And you are saying yes.
PAPARELLA: I was -- yes. I was thinking more just -- I thought it was interesting about the vouchers. And I think that we -- obviously, we don't have vouchers in Virginia.
But what I think is interesting is that when you have choice, right, I think that both sides are incentivized to improve and really do their best. And I wonder, sort of, what the relationship is there in Arizona. I can tell you in our community because the public schools are so great that in order to be a successful, thriving private school you've got to be really, really great for somebody to want to pay on top of that.
LEMON: Yes.
PAPARELLA: So I think that's kind of interesting.
BATTS: I agree that we have choices and we always had choices. The bottom line is who pays for your choice? And by intentionally taking away from the funding of public school education, the taxpayer dollars, the common good, the common pot, the common agreement that we're going to pay for resources --
GLASGOW: Uh-huh.
BATTS: -- and allocating it to people who would already make choices to opt out of the public school system, it's very important. Because now we're under-resourcing the highest need families for people -- and subsidizing people who would already pay for where they would go.
LEMON: Thank you. I appreciate it.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LEMON: And up next on CNN, take a look at that. We're going to take you live to Louisiana, which was struck by tornadoes overnight. You're watching CNN THIS MORNING.
