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CNN This Morning

Andrew Callaghan's "This Place Rules" Documentary Debuts on HBO December 30, 2022; Officials Report 23 Drones Launched by Russia Toward Ukraine Capital; White House Not Expected to Weigh in on January 6 Committee Final Public Meeting; CNN Honors Senior Correspondent Drew Griffin Who Has Passed Away After a Battle with Cancer. Aired 8:30-9a ET

Aired December 19, 2022 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:30:00]

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: What did you see from him as you were shooting this?

ANDREW CALLAGHAN, HBO ORIGINAL" THIS PLACE RULES": Yes, I just talked to him in the lead-up to the a - the January 6 Capitol riot, just hung out with him a little bit in D.C. and Miami and elsewhere.

COLLINS: And what did you learn about him?

CALLAGHAN: He sells t-shirts. He's the chairman of the Proud Boys. Yes.

DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: So, no details about his involvement, his state of mind or anything?

CALLAGHAN: I mean, I don't think the - you know - the movies' not just about like the Capitol riot and all that. It's also about like media echo chamber and like the dangers of the 24-hour news cycle. And how, I think, mainstream media, like Fox and even CNN like competes for views by running constant 24-hour news cycles based up on fear, division, outrage and panic, probably to like sell ads. So, it's not just about the Capitol riot.

LEMON: Yes, I'm not - I'm not exactly sure - first of all, I don't agree with what you're saying, but I'm not exactly sure of how that played into people going into the Capitol and rioting on January 6. There's nothing fake about CNN.

CALLAGHAN: Oh, not - I'm not saying like fake news. I'm just saying, ramping people up and increasing division during that period of time. Just watching people kind of fall down the rabbit hole and be pushed into action and like just, yes, falling down the conspiracy rabbit hole. Yes.

LEMON: I think people - more people would consider, you know, what's happening online and the - what happened with the former president and the messaging that he was putting out there and QAnon and so forth -

(CROSSTALK) CALLAGHAN: Oh, yes. I definitely - I definitely agree 100 percent with that as well.

LEMON: Yes, so listen, there are literally so many jaw-dropping moments in your documentary including a weightlifting scene with conspiracy theorist Alex Jones.

CALLAGHAN: Yes, for sure. He can bench press a lot actually.

LEMON: Why - why would you put that in? why did you spend so much time with him? And why he's such a big part of this film?

CALLAGHAN: Well, I mean, you know, I just think that like when - whenever we were filming for the documentary there were just certain moments that were super surreal that just kind of happened. And I felt like we had to kind of leave the footage in. So, the Alex Jones weightlifting, whiskey-drinking scene would also be one of those moments that I couldn't like leave out of the movie for sure.

COLLINS: One of the things that also stood out was what you heard from people when it comes to like conspiracy theories. I mean, there were - there were parts that were like children or shouting conspiracy theories. And wondered as you talked to these people if you got the sense that they actually believed what they were saying or what your takeaway was.

CALLAGHAN: Yes, definitely. I think a lot of people believe what they're saying. I just think that like, you know, the echo chambers in the media, especially more fringe media that a lot of these people are consuming is all-encompassing and especially the mythology of QAnon like consumed a lot of people's lives during this period of time. And it kind of like just became everything they wanted to fight for up until the Capitol riot.

So, that particular scene where I spoke with that family in Georgia where it was like that - the structure and whole basis of their family was like based upon "Q" and following that kind of lore was definitely unsettling for sure. But, yes, it's interesting to see where it is now, because, you know, I guess hard QAnon stuff has kind of dissipated in terms of like, you know, no one posts on the "Q" boards anymore, but it's kind of like bled into like mainstream conservative thought.

COLLINS: I do think we should point out. A lot of those conspiracies are not from legitimate media. That's from like social media and websites.

LEMON: Yes.

CALLAGHAN: Oh, yes. Yes. Totally. Totally. But -

(CROSSTALK)

COLLINS: -- all those things that are in question (ph). Like dark corners of the internet. CALLAGHAN: Oh, yes. But, it's like people spend their whole time in

these dark corners of the internet, so it feels very real to them, especially because the - I think the biggest problem is probably media literacy and like taking a lot of this information that's false as - as fact, because of, you know, you're seeing it on Facebook, you're seeing it on "Newsmax," you're seeing it on "One America News Network," places like that.

LEMON: Andrew Callaghan, thank you very much. Best of luck with this. "This Place Rules," debuts on HBO and streams on HBO Max. That's on December 30.

Moving on now, Russia is ramping up its attacks on Ukraine's infrastructure, knocking out power and water to millions amid a brutal winter.

Colonel Cedric Leighton is standing by with the state of this war.

[08:34:08]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:38:40]

COLLINS: Overnight Ukrainian officials say that Russian drone attacks damaged critical infrastructure facilities in Kyiv. Officials say that 23 drones were launched toward the capital, 18 of them were destroyed. We have new images coming in this morning that show crews battling a fire at one of the attack sites. Two people were hurt. Homes were damaged we are learning. And these attacks on infrastructure have knocked out power across Ukraine, leaving millions in the dark during what is setting in to be a very brutal winter with incredibly low temperatures.

But President Zelenskyy says this will not deter his country from fighting back.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, PRESIDENT OF UKRAINE: (through translator): Whatever the rocket worshipers from Moscow are counting for it still won't change the balance of power in this war. They still have enough missiles for several such massive strikes. We will have enough determination and self-belief to return what is ours after these strikes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COLLINS: So, joining us now is CNN Military Analyst and retired Air Force Colonel Cedric Leighton. You know, the point of this is to basically destroy moral across Ukraine. But Zelenskyy is trying to make the argument that it's not working.

CEDRIC LEIGHTON, FORMER AIR FORCE COLONEL AND CNN MILITARY ANALYST: That's right, Kaitlin. And I think he's actually got a real point there, because, yes, on an - on an individual basis you're going to find a lot of people who are affected personally, you know, people that they know are wounded or have been killed in the war.

[08:40:02]

They're personally suffering shortages of electricity and to water and things like that. But there's this resilience within Ukraine that is really amazing to behold, and Zelenskyy is reflecting that in the way he's actually talking about this. And he's also, by doing this, he's also furthering that whole idea of resistance and making it a resilient society, something that you would never expect to have happen in a country like Ukraine.

LEMON: Let's be realistic about this. We're in the waning days of December. We're in the waning days of 2022. We started - you and I started reporting on this, was a night in February, right?

LEIGHTON: That's right.

LEMON: So, it will almost be a year.

LEIGHTON: Yes.

LEMON: The conditions are horrific. I've been there in the winter. It is cold.

LEIGHTON: Yes.

LEMON: Give us the conditions of the war right now.

LEIGHTON: So, you've got this bone-chilling cold that everybody is dealing with on both sides. The Russians are woefully unprepared for this cold, which is kind of surprising because they train in the Arctic, they've got large areas of territory that are within the Arctic circle. But they don't have the supplies that they need to in order to sustain this kind of a force.

On the Ukrainian side, they're getting a lot more from the west that will help them on a personal basis, for each individual soldier take care of the cold aspect of this. But they also are getting weapon supplies. Their supply line is much better than that of the Russians and it's really making a big difference in the way in which the Ukrainians can prosecute this war.

Now, it doesn't mean that the Ukrainians are going to be able to win this war outright, but it means that they can at least, at this point, sustain what they've been able to do and keep what they've been able to regain from the Russians at this point.

LEMON: Obviously, you're no stranger to war. Did you expect it go on this long? And how much long - there's - there's no end in sight, correct?

LEIGHTON: Yes, there's no end in sight right now. I did not expect it to go on this long. But I also think that a - you know - it's really up to Putin, President Putin of Russia, to decide at which point he is going to withdraw these forces. And that is really going to be the critical element here. When does he decide to do it? How does he decide to do it? And he's obviously going to try to save face.

There's going to be some kind of a settlement at some point, but we're not there yet. And the Ukrainians aren't going to want to give up any territory.

COLLINS: And it's having massive impacts on the U.S. "The New York Times" had that really comprehensive look yesterday about military spending and what the war in Ukraine has done when it comes to all these private companies that are making all this and the timelines of the - what it looks like and how speeding it up is just something that is not something they can do in the near future.

LEIGHTON: Well, that's - that's points to the defense industrial base in this country. We are not prepared - we were not prepared to sustain a war of this type for somebody else. And we were certainly not prepared for something that isn't a quick war like we had, say, in the first stages of Operation Iraqi Freedom on in Desert Storm. We kind of focused our military on those kinds of wars and fighting counterterrorism-type operations.

But in this particular case, we are not seeing that.

LEMON: But I thought Vladimir Putin thought it would be 10 days or so, right?

LEIGHTON: Oh, yes. Much less - much less than that even. He thought he'd be marching his troops down the main streets of Kyiv in three days.

LEMON: Three days?

LEIGHTON: They had their parade uniforms in their tanks (inaudible).

COLLINS: That was so fascinating to me. They brought their parade uniforms and their medals, because - like they essentially did not pack enough food, did not pack enough weapons, the Russian troops did, but they brought their uniforms thinking they were going to have a celebration within days.

LEMON: As we saw all of those tanks parked along the, you know, way that Ukrainians had taken out.

LEIGHTON: Right.

LEMON: Much of a surprise to Russia.

LEIGHTON: Absolutely. And, you know, they thought they were going to go on parade in those three days. Obviously, didn't happen, that 40- mile-long convoy that had a lot of those troops in there -

COLLINS: Yes.

LEIGHTON: -- a total disaster for the Russians. And it really shows that you can never predict how quickly these wars are going to end when you start them.

LEMON: Colonel, thank you. It's always a pleasure to see you.

LEIGHTON: Same to you, Don.

LEMON: Yes, good (ph).

COLLINS: Also, this morning, the White House expected to watch but quietly, as the House January 6 committee is holding its final public meeting on former President Trump's effort to overturn the 2020 election. And its investigation into what happened at the Capitol.

The panel is expected to vote on at least three criminal referrals against Trump.

CNN's MJ Lee is live on the White House lawn. MJ, you know, how do they handle this? Because, obviously, they will be watching, but they want to handle this carefully if there are these referrals to the Justice Department I imagine.

MJ LEE, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: That's absolutely right. We can expect the White House to handle all of this carefully and largely quietly. White House officials telling me that the White House is not going to weigh in on, at least, any specific referrals or actions that the committee might make this week, in the final week. One official saying that this basically reflects how all year long the White House has been careful to not offer basically any punditry on the committee's work.

You know, for months and months we have, indeed, seen the White House take these painstaking efforts to not weigh in specifically on the January 6 committee's work, but also the DOJ's ongoing investigation into what happened on January 6 as well.

[08:45:02]

But what has been really important for this White House is to avoid any perception that it has tried to influence the work of the DOJ and that there has been any sort of political influence that it has tried to exert.

And those efforts might, Kaitlin, become just as important if, in fact, the committee does end up making several criminal referrals to the DOJ against Donald Trump, as CNN has expected that it is expected to do.

COLLINS: Yes, we'll all be watching closely today. MJ Lee, thank you.

LEMON: Another major Trump investigation is wrapping up. Sources telling CNN that the Special Grand Jury investigating efforts by Trump and his allies to overturn the election results in Georgia is largely finished hearing and hearing from witnesses and is now working on writing its final report.

This is a sign that prosecutors could decide pretty soon whether to seek criminal charges. Fulton County District Attorney Fani Willis has been digging into

Trump and his associates since early 2021, soon after his phone call became public.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Well, all I want to do is this. I just want to find a - 11,780 votes, which is one more than we have.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

LEMON: Well, that was Trump, obviously, pressuring Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger to what he still claims a - was a perfect phone call, as Trump has insisted, he didn't do anything wrong.

"This investigation has been big and has included false election fraud claims made to state lawmakers and the fake elector scheme.

Now Willis has already informed the 16 Republican fake electors that they are targets of her probe along with Rudy Giuliani.

A long list of Trump allies have testified despite trying very hard not to, including Senator Lindsey Graham, Rudy Giuliani and former National Security Advisor Michael Flynn.

In Georgia, special grand jury - a special grand jury - special grand juries have no authority to issue indictments, they make recommendations. It will be up to Willis and a new grand jury to decide whether to move forward on criminal charges. And some legal experts have cautioned that any case against Trump would be far from a slam dunk, but this is a significant step. Here's what a former U.S. attorney in Georgia told CNN just yesterday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAEL J. MOORE, FORMER U.S. ATTORNEY IN GEORGIA: I think it's likely that you'll see a recommendation come out from the special grand jury to pursue or at least to recommend criminal charges against people involved. And I think you'll likely see Trump in that because he's - you know - he's essentially given a confession on tape.

LEMON: But today, all eyes are on eh January 6 committee. Make sure you join Jake Tapper and Erin Burnett for special live coverage of the hearing starting day, noon Eastern time.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:51:35]

LEMON: It is a very sad morning for the CNN family here because there is no one we'd rather have sitting with us than now than our award- winning senior investigative correspondent and that is Drew Griffin.

Drew died this weekend after battling cancer. We wish he was here because he's not just a colleague, but he is a very dear friend. COLLINS: And you said he was one of the first people that you ever worked with.

LEMON: One of the first people I met when I came to CNN was him and Kyra Phillips and I cannot believe he's gone.

COLLINS: On a day like today, you know, there's so many stories that we would have been able to talk to him about. He was this tenacious, insightful reporter.

Here's Anderson with a look back at his remarkable career.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DREW GRIFFIN, CNN SENIOR INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER: It was so hot -

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): During his nearly two decades at CNN, Drew Griffin was known for tenacious reporting.

GRIFFIN: Are you worried you'll be indicted before the election, sir?

COOPER (voice-over): His interviews were unwavering.

GRIFFIN: I don't think you really understand how votes are cast, collected and tabulated in this country.

MIKE LINDELL, CEO OF MYPILLOW (off-camera): OK -

COOPER (voice-over): And he gave a voice to those who didn't have one.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, we don't expect it to be easy. We don't expect the truth to be easy.

COOPER (voice-over): Drew was a gifted storyteller, dedicated to seeking the truth and holding the powerful accountable.

GRIFFIN: Why do you continue to push the lie that the y 2020 election was stolen?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's not a lie.

(CROSSTALK)

GRIFFIN: It's a lie. You have no proof. We've looked at all the facts.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You haven't - I tell you what, hey, hold on. Hold on.

GRIFFIN: You don't have the facts-

ANDERSON (voice-over): And Drew's stories had real-world impact.

GRIFFIN: Well, if Uber doesn't release the number of drivers who are accused of sexual assault, so CNN decided to count up ourselves. COOPER (voice-over): After CNN questioned Uber about a string of

sexual assaults by drivers, the company made major safety changes to its app and revised its policies.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Excellent reporting. Thanks to you and your team.

ANDERSON (voice-over): Drew exposed serious issues at VA hospitals across the country. Revealing a broken system, veterans dying while waiting for care.

PAULINE DEWENTER; PHOENIX VA SCHEDULING CLERK: This particular veteran was screaming, please do whatever you can, don't let the VA do this to another patient or another veteran. We do not deserve this type of treatment.

ANDERSON (voice-over): That led to the resignation of the VA secretary and an overhaul of the VA scheduling system.

GRIFFIN: Gas here in Haiti (ph) -

ANDERSON (voice-over): He covered business and terrorism, the environment, and politics.

GRIFFIN: Mr. Birch? Mr. Birch?

ANDERSON (voice-over): And there were many people over the years who didn't want to answer his questions.

GRIFFIN: Please talk to us, Director. Director Helmun (ph)?

Did the background checks of those companies not reveal the fact that you are accused of torture and murder?

Do you know Alex Furman (ph), a convicted felon, who apparently runs one of these clinics and has been billing the state of California for several years? Despite the fact that there have been complaints.

ANDERSON (voice-over): Drew won most of journalism big awards, but that's not what motivated him. He cared about people and how they were impacted.

GRIFFIN (off-camera): Get out, dude.

ANDERSON (voice-over): While he was covering the aftermath of Hurricane Harvey he ended up rescuing a man from flood waters.

GRIFFIN: No, no, don't fall backward. All right, sir. You all right? All right, hold on. Hold on.

ANDERSON (voice-over): His job as a correspondent took him all across the country.

GRIFFIN: It wasn't that long ago these wild Pawnee grasslands were just that, wild. Now, almost everywhere you look is a gas rig. ANDERSON (voice-over): And to different parts of the world. But his

favorite place was home. He as deeply devoted to his family, his wife Margot and his three children, Ele, Louis and Miles as well as two grandchildren.

Drew Griffin will be missed by all of us.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LEMON: So, it's - I want to apologize for breaking down earlier. We had known that Drew had passed but it just became real to me in that moment and just saying it on the air. But listen, it's not about me. Drew, when I came Drew was - the heartbeat of the network was in Atlanta then.

And I came to Atlanta, and it was Drew and Kyra Phillips and Sanjay Gupta and a bunch of other folks down in Atlanta and we were all on- air together. And we were - we just felt like the - you know - we were keeping the network going.

COLLINS: Yes.

LEMON: Maybe it was just sort of made up in our minds. But like he - I could not have met someone who was more kind to me, more welcoming to everyone. The person that you saw on the air, like this sort of dogged (ph) reporter was actually not who he was in person. He was just this kind, gentle soul.

COLLINS: Yes.

LEMON: that just was just very sweet to everyone. He was an amazing guy. And loved his Ele, Louis and Miles. And I will never forget, I think I was on the air with him when he rescued the person. I think that was a live shot with me and maybe it was Heidi Collins, I don't remember, but we were on the air. And then I remember during COVID just talking to him in the break, because he was - he would find different places in his live - in his house to do the live shots at home to make it interesting.

(CROSSTALK)

COLLINS: Yes, oh, he (inaudible) up.

LEMON: But he was an amazing guy. An amazing guy. Drew and Margot, we love you guys so much and you will be missed, and I hope you're smiling down on us from heaven and whatever you need, Margot and family, we are here. We love you, we love you, we love you.

COLLINS: Yes.

[08:56:50]

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