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Supreme Court Temporarily Freezes Order to End Title 42; Jan. 6 Hearing, Key Revelations and What Happens Now; Multiple Airlines Issue Travel Waivers Ahead of Bomb Cyclone. Aired 7-7:30a ET

Aired December 20, 2022 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: Oh, here we are. Where are you? I hope cozy at home watching.

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: Drinking some coffee.

LEMON: Exactly, a lot of coffee. Good morning, everyone. Thank you for joining us. Poppy is off today.

The question is, because they're running out of time, well, they made changes. What will happen at the border? Chief Justice John Roberts temporarily froze a Trump-era border restriction in place. What will the White House do?

COLLINS: Also, four criminal charges. Those are the referrals from the January 6 committee is delivering in its report on Trump. But now it's up to the Justice Department to decide whether or not they're actually going to charge him with a crime.

LEMON: And an Arctic blast this week bringing the coldest Christmas in nearly 40 years. It is expected to hit millions and prompt travel chaos. We are live in the weather center for you. So, brrrrr is the word.

But, first, Title 42 still in effect after Chief Justice John Roberts intervenes. The Trump-era policy let's officials swiftly expel migrants at the U.S. border and was set to end tomorrow. Roberts has asked the Biden administration to respond by 5:00 today to an emergency appeal from GOP-led states to keep it in place.

So, let's find out what the White House is saying about this now. So, we go to M.J. Lee at the White House. Good morning. The White House surprised by this ruling?

M.J. LEE, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: The short answer, Don, is, no, they are not surprised. They obviously were aware that these 19 states led by Republican leaders had filed for this emergency application and knew that one of the options that could play out was this kind of temporary order that we saw from the Supreme Court yesterday. And you saw how quickly the DHS responded to that order and basically said, yes, we will abide by this and Title 42 will stay in place for now. Anyone who tries to cross the border illegally will be sent back to Mexico swiftly.

Now, both the DHS and the White House, they have been clear about one thing, and that is that the work that they have been doing on the ground will continue. That is to say the various preparations that these agencies have been making to prepare for a potential surge in migrants coming across the border.

We've talked about this so much over the last couple weeks, boosting personnel, hiring more people to deal with this situation, trying to get more resources to, again, deal with the surge. The White House is making clear that they are going to continue focusing on that work.

LEMON: So, the response is set for 5:00 today. That's what the court asked the Biden administration to do. Any indication on what they're going to do?

LEE: Yes. You really get a sense how fast-moving this situation is, that Justice Roberts essentially gave the administration one day to respond to that emergency application. Look, I don't think this administration has a choice but to abide by that deadline that was set by Justice Roberts. That is 5:00 P.M. today.

We know that this is a legal process. The administration really just has to go with everything that is thrown their way by the courts. But, again, I think it is just worth emphasizing that for right now, the number one priority that the White House says is top of mind for them is preparing for this surge, because they know that this is likely a temporary freeze and that at some point Title 42 is going to end. Just the question right now is exactly when that is going to happen, Don.

LEMON: M.J. Lee at the White House this morning, thank you, M.J.

COLLINS: All right. Also this morning, CNN is on the ground. We are seeing significant movement on the border, speaking to families who have crossed the southern border at Title 42 remains in limbo, which means so many of these families do as well.

CNN's David Culver is live in Ciudad Juarez, Mexico. David, what are you seeing there this morning? I know we've been checking with you every day. What's happening on the ground right now?

DAVID CULVER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Kaitlan, a significant mobilization that just started under way. Probably about 30 minutes ago. I want to pan over here. This is from the Mexico side now looking on to the U.S. side. You can see on this strip of the river bank, or the Rio Grande, this is what appears to be either U.S. military or Texas National Guard. It's not clear. And either way, they're in military uniforms and they're pulling out barbed wire here.

Now, this is a part that migrants had been for several weeks, if not months, and we were here last month, had been using this as a staging ground. They were camping here on the Mexico side. They simply would cross over this part of the Rio Grande and then they'd position themselves there. [07:05:02]

And about 45 minutes ago, hundreds were here. They had campfires lit. They were waiting to be processed. That all changed as dozens of humvees moved in.

Guys, let's move up here real quick. I just want to walk you along the border and show you what is taking place right now. Again, it looks like military humvees, perhaps National Guard. But then we're also seeing in the midst of that, David, if you can point just right in between here. Looks like Texas law enforcement as well.

We have not seen this type of movement here in our time covering this, and it does seem that this is perhaps in preparation for what could be a surge. Of course, this has been a very popular crossing ground. And on the Mexico side, they've obviously been concerned enough to clear out the encampment that once was here. Perhaps some coordination as well with Mexican law enforcement, because we've been seeing more patrols by Mexican police at the same time.

Notice even over here, we've got a few folks who are sitting out in blankets. These are migrants who are on the other side who are also in the line to be processed. They, for some reason, decided not to continue through and they came back over to the Mexican side to basically just take in what's happening right now.

But this was the space, Kaitlan, that people were using to walk over and to then start the processing to be considered for asylum. And many of them would go through, and under Title 42, which as we know is still in place, they would be immediately expelled, some of them. Some of them were actually able to get through.

But right now, I mean, this indicates that there's a lot of concern at this crossing in particular, because it was so popular, that now you have what is this significant mobilization that appears to be trying to stem what could be a massive surge.

COLLINS: And, David, I know that we have been watching this spot. You've been reporting on this so closely. One, can you tell us what time does it appear that these troops arrived? I know we're still trying to figure out if it's the 400 or so Texas National Guard members that were put on alert yesterday in anticipation of something like this. What time did they arrive and are they actively moving people out of the area?

CULVER: It was about 4:30 local time, so that's about 6:30 in the morning your time, Kaitlan, and they did have several hundred people who were lined up. And those folks who were preparing to be processed, some of them chose to continue on up to be processed. Others decided to come back over on the Mexican side.

Either way, the campfires were quickly extinguished by what appears to be this Texas law enforcement, perhaps Texas National Guard or U.S. military, and then they immediately started putting in these posts. You can see it right across here. That's what they're putting in. They're putting in these large posts and then they're wrapping up massive, it looks like rings of barbed wire to then build this infrastructure.

And it's interesting. If we point just past them up here -- David, if you can just show where these officials are -- there's another chain- link fence that went up in recent days. We thought perhaps that was the infrastructure that was going to be used to help funnel some of the migrants in an orderly manner. Now, it looks like they really want to close this off, or at least significantly monitor it in a way that does not allow people to freely cross over as they were.

Because, Kaitlan, just crossing this portion here is illegal, that's breaking the law. And that's -- of course, how many of the migrants were going over? They'd cross from here, Mexico, into the U.S. and they position themselves there until processing would start. And the processing would go in waves. Sometimes they'd let several dozen people in at a time and then they'd hold people waiting in an orderly fashion.

And I will say, even the U.S. officials, they seem, in many ways, overwhelmed with the numbers that we've seen from this portion alone and yet they've still been coming out trying to give people blankets because it's freezing cold. A lot of them were still wet after having crossed over. And so in a humanitarian way, they've been trying to facilitate this, but now it seems that this has become a significant law enforcement mobilization.

COLLINS: And we saw some people just the other day when you were reporting from this spot, they were changing their clothes after they had crossed over because, obviously, they presumably got wet or cold.

Have you seen anything like this, though, since you've been on the ground there reporting?

CULVER: Nothing like this, no. This really indicates that this has taken a whole another tone right now. And to your point of people shedding things, I mean, they don't come with a lot of belongings from this portion anyways. And most of what we have seen have been families. And if you kind of look across here, it might be a bit dark, but along the slope going up the hill where you kind of climb up, and that's the entrance to where the processing has been taking place, you'll notice what would have been a lot of discarded blankets.

So, they'll make their way up. They'll throw aside any sort of clothing, either wet or things that they simply don't want to carry on with them, things that they've been given at the shelters nearby or things that they've taken with them. Many of them are from Venezuela. So, they've had them with them for their month-long trek to get to this point.

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They'll toss them aside and then they'll continue up.

But nothing like this in our time being here, Kaitlan, and this indicates that there are some serious concerns, certainly at this portion, but perhaps shows what's happening along this border. So, as to prevent what could be the end at some point of Title 42, again, we know that the chief justice held it and frozen it in place, so as to not lift it, meaning that this Trump-era policy that has been widely used under President Biden, so as to expel immediately migrants really in the name of COVID prevention is still in place for now.

And law enforcement -- for whatever reason, are now positioning themselves so that if it is lifted or even if folks on this Mexican side, migrants who are planning to go over, having gotten word that it's still in place and perhaps are presuming tomorrow it will be lifted, in any case, preparations are under way and they're taking this seriously.

LEMON: Hey, David, it's Don. I've got to ask you if you've been able to speak to any of the people trying to come over. And I would imagine this -- scenes like this aren't just playing out where you are. And if they have -- you said if they don't know if they've gotten word that it's been frozen or what have you. Have you been able to speak with anyone, any of the people coming over, and are there multiple scenes like this playing out on the border, to your knowledge?

CULVER: To the latter part, Don, we're working to get that information and trying to really figure out who these law enforcement members are. Clearly, Texas law enforcement part of this, because we've seen the emblems on the side of the vehicles.

As to migrants, you can see a few of them -- David, if we can just show over here quick -- have positioned themselves in blankets, have made their way back over here. It's not clear why they didn't want to go through the processing. We did speak with them briefly. They seemed really just shocked and stunned at what happened and really in just a matter of minutes. I mean, a lot of them sitting there trying to keep warm by fires on the U.S. side, and they had several fires lit. And then suddenly everything extinguished. People said to go either into processing or move along back to the Mexican side.

So, it seems that the migrants here that we've spoken with are just trying to get some more information. But it's interesting, Don, a lot are in touch with folks who are the family or friends or people they've met on their journey to this point and trying to figure out what's happening on the other side. And a lot of the times that can take, several hours, if not days, because cell phones are taken away, people are put into the process of being considered for asylum, and so that contact is not immediate.

But that's oftentimes what this space has been on the Mexican side, is the staging ground to try to gather information and figure out, okay, can we now cross and perhaps can we get in? As of now, they're just watching this unfold as we are live and seeing that this -- what has been a very, very common, to be frank, a very easy crossing has now a major barrier being put up.

COLLINS: David Culver, fascinating reporting. We're going to stay in touch as you are seeing more there on the ground as we're watching what these forces are doing and learning more about them. We'll stay in touch with you throughout the show.

LEMON: That's the scene along the border. Now to Washington, and one big question lingers after the January 6th committee's blistering final public meeting. Will the former president be charged with a crime?

Let's take a look at how we got here and what happens next.

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REP. LIZ CHENEY (R-WY): Every president in our history has defended this orderly transfer of authority, except one.

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LEMON: A simple closing statement from the committee, all roads lead to Donald Trump. The executive summary putting a fine point on it. The evidence has led to an overriding and straightforward conclusion the central cause of January 6th was one man, former President Donald Trump, who many others followed. None of the events of January 6th would have happened without him.

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REP. BENNIE THOMPSON (D-MS): He lost the 2020 election and knew it. In the end, he summoned a mob to Washington and knowingly they were armed and angry pointed them to the Capitol and told them to fight like hell.

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LEMON: Well, the committee referring four crimes to the Justice Department that they say the former president committed while trying to stay in the White House. The first charge alone, obstruction of an official proceeding, could carry a 25-year sentence. If charged and convicted, it would likely be life for Donald Trump.

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REP. JAMIE RASKIN (D-MD): Ours is not a system of justice where foot soldiers go to jail and the masterminds and ringleaders get a free pass.

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LEMON: And the committee revealing new details from top advisers, even as some of Trump's closest allies, like Hope Hicks, worried that the bogus fraud claims were damaging his legacy, but Trump persisted.

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HOPE HICKS, TRUMP'S FORMER COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: He said something along the lines of, you know, nobody will care about my legacy if I lose.

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So, that won't matter. The only thing that matters is winning. (END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: The committee also determining that Trump knew the fraud allegations he was pushing were false but continued to amplify them.

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REP. ZOE LOFGREN (D-CA): The committee has evidence that ex-President Trump planned to declare victory and unlawfully to call for the vote counting to stop, and that he told numerous allies about his intent in the weeks before the election.

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LEMON: The committee also highlighting Trump's $250 million fundraising haul between the election and January 6th raised primarily off claims of election fraud that did not exist, questioning whether any of the money was used to pay lawyers who may have tried to obstruct the congressional investigation, citing evidence from one unnamed witness who was urged to stay loyal to Trump.

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LOFGREN: The witness believed, this was an effort to affect her testimony and we are concerned that these efforts may have been a strategy to prevent the committee from finding the truth.

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LEMON: So now what? What happens now? All eyes are on the Justice Department with the federal investigation now being led by Special Counsel Jack Smith. It appears DOJ investigators are already looking at much of the conduct that the committee has highlighted. But whether the department brings charges will depend on whether the facts and the evidence support a prosecution. Attorney General Merrick Garland has said that. Garland will make the ultimate call on charging decisions.

For the committee, the end is near. The current Congress ends January 3rd. And that's when the committee will cease to exist. But its full report comes out tomorrow and additional transcripts and documents will be released before the end of the year. And that report will be one for the history books, certain to be studied for generations.

COLLINS: So, for more perspective on what happened yesterday, let's bring in Maggie Haberman, CNN's Political Analyst and senior Political Correspondent at The New York Times.

What did you hear how the former president and his orbit was reacting yesterday?

MAGGIE HABERMAN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYS: Supposedly, he wasn't watching much of it, which I believe, Kaitlan. It was a pretty short hearing from the ones we've seen. But, look, he's not happy about it. Most of the people in his orbit were actually a little anxious about this heading into today. There was some prediction there might be some kind of rally around Trump effect, which we saw right after the FBI search of Mar-a-Lago in August. I'm not seeing a lot of signs of that yet. It's possible it will come. But, look, everything with Donald Trump gets measured by, do I actually get charged? Is this actually facing criminality?

Now, this is unprecedented. This was a really damning day for him, but does it move him closer to being indicted? I don't think we know yet.

COLLINS: What about in the broader scheme of things, because this isn't the only thing facing him obviously? He's got actual investigations that I'm told his attorneys are actually much more concerned about. What about the idea of his political influence given these charges are unprecedented with these criminal referrals? He's got all of these other investigations that we've been talking about. What does that mean for him and his third run?

HABERMAN: Look, his third run has been -- we're five weeks in now. It's been pretty lackluster so far. He, at minimum, seems distracted or not that interested. We'll see what it looks like when we head into a New Year. There are certainly clear signs that his influence in the party is waning.

Now, we don't know what that will mean going into next year. Do other candidates challenge him? Does Ron DeSantis, who is the hopeful candidate for a lot of donors, does he even run? Or do people ultimately decide to sit it out? But there's no question that Trump is a more diminished figure than at any point that we have seen him since 2015.

LEMON: It seems like there has been sort of a shift here, right, and I'm not sure if it's glacial yet. But I thought it interesting that you tweeted that these referrals underscore the reality that Trump is facing diminished figure politically, as you just said there. Do you think it's possible that this could -- I'm not sure if it's so, that it could provoke a backlash and even strengthen the performer president. That's what happened before. I'm not sure if that's the case this time.

HABERMAN: That's something that some Republicans who don't like him, to be clear, who is spoke to yesterday, who didn't want to say this publicly because they didn't want to seem like they were undermining the committee, but they are concerned about that, because now we had seen that pattern so many times, where there is some rallying effect. And I think that's something to watch for right now.

Again, I'm not seeing signs of that yet. Now, maybe it will come. But I think that is a clear measure of whether his influence has waned. It's just people are just sick of kind of running to defend him all the time.

LEMON: Well, isn't the -- the silence is deafening. I mean, even though he is saying, this is a witch hunt, it's a sham, you know, this is the same old talking points. Silence is kind of deafening, and how he is diminished especially when it comes to the media and his voice, it's interesting. [07:20:01]

It's an interesting turn, because before, he would have been standing in front of microphones, everyone would have been paying attention and that does not appear to be happening. And his allies would have been out there saying, you know, this is terrible. We stand by him. I don't see much of that.

HABERMAN: We'll see what happens next week. I think that there are allies of his in the House among Republicans who are planning on doing some kind of counterattack on this report. Once the transcripts start coming out, and we're expecting that to start tomorrow, I expect they will start looking through these interviews, picking through things that they can say were inconsistencies, things that they can highlight as, look, this witness said X, Y, Z, and this was fair to him, I think they will try to undermine Cassidy Hutchinson, who is the star witness.

So, I think we don't know yet what it's going to look like. But certainly in the first day after, there is a real fatigue all around.

LEMON: Yes.

COLLINS: So, what about Hope Hicks? That really stood out to me yesterday. She obviously testified much later in the January 6th investigation. I think it was late October. Kellyanne Conway was actually late November. What did you make of hearing her talk about her conversations with Trump, with Eric Herschmann, a top Trump attorney?

HABERMAN: Those are two separate issues. One is on the matters of fact and what was actually discussed. I've been told by one person who is aware of both of their testimony that actually their conversation about whether to get Trump to say something was not ahead of January 6th. It was actually during the riot and that Herschman was trying to get Trump to say something when that was taking place, that it wasn't before.

In terms of what Hicks was concerned about, I've been told that it was not that she was concerned that there was going to be an insurrection at the Capitol. It's that she was just concerned there were going to be protests and counter-protests, something more similar to Charlottesville, Virginia in 2017.

But it was still really striking because there's no one who is more of a loyalist than her. And hearing her talk how he was doing things that were undermining and damaging to himself and that she clearly didn't believe what he was saying, and, you know, to be clear, she was one of a cast of dozens at that point who were saying, this is not reality, but we never hear her speak publicly, and it was very striking. And the same with Kellyanne Conway, who we do hear speak publicly but not about stuff like that.

LEMON: And not at all appears that they were concerned about his legacy at all leading up to this actually him saying, I don't really care about that. My legacy will be whether I win this -- HABERMAN: Right, because all he sees is his legacy is being a winner. He didn't care about anything else that he had accomplished during his presidency.

LEMON: Maggie, thank you very much. We appreciate it.

And straight ahead here, Congressman Adam Schiff will join us to discuss the historic hearing. What charges he thinks has the strongest evidence?

COLLINS: Also this morning, multiple U.S. airlines are issuing travel waivers ahead of the winter blizzards that are forecast for the Midwest, a potential bomb cyclone that is set to hit the northeast later this week.

CNN's Meteorologist Jennifer Gray is in the Weather Center. Jennifer, if you've got a flight booked, what should you know about this?

JENNIFER GRAY, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Well, if you're in the upper Midwest and northern plains, you might want to be thinking about changing that, because the weather is about to really get rough across those areas. The storm system right now is just in its infancy, but it will be expanding, it will be definitely strengthening over the coming days. We have winter weather advisories, winter storm watches out across much of the northern plains and northern Rockies.

Here we go. As we get into Thursday, we're going to start seeing blizzard conditions across portions of Minnesota, Chicago could experience blizzard conditions. This is Friday morning. So, Thursday night into Friday is really the rough timestamp for Chicago. We could see up to a foot of snow across portions of the Midwest, even the northern plains picking up quite a bit of snow. And this snow dives far to the south, touching even portions of Arkansas and those wind chills, Kaitlan, will be anywhere from 40 to 50 degrees below 0 across portions of the plains and the Midwest.

LEMON: Oh, my gosh.

COLLINS: Better get your jackets! Jennifer Gray, thank you.

GRAY: Yes.

LEMON: Thanks, Jennifer.

COLLINS: All right. The unprecedented move and then new revelations from the January 6th committee in its final public session. Former President Trump's former defense secretary, Mark Esper, is going to join us with his thoughts.

LEMON: Okay. So, this story is fascinating.

COLLINS: Oh, yes.

LEMON: I mean, I am obsessed with it. A New York Republican who was just elected to Congress might have some explaining to do about his resume. Wait until you hear the details. COLLINS: I would say definitely.

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CHENEY: January 6, 2021 was the first time one American president refused his constitutional duty to transfer power peacefully to the next. In our work over the last 18 months, the select committee has recognized our obligation to do everything we can to ensure this never happens again.

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LEMON: That was Congresswoman Liz Cheney delivering blistering remarks during the January 6th meeting just as the committee formally recommended the DOJ charge the former president with four criminal charges for his involvement in the Capitol insurrection.

So, we're glad to have this morning Donald Trump's former defense secretary, Mark Esper. Thank you for joining us, Defense Secretary. We have a lot to talk about January 6th and then I want to talk about what's happening at the border as well.

You were not in office on January 6th. But after what happened, you said that you considered Trump a threat to democracy. Do you think these criminal referrals and the findings from the committee eliminate that threat?

MARK ESPER, FORMER DEFENSE SECRETARY UNDER PRESIDENT TRUMP: Well, look, the committee did a solid job in terms of collecting the facts, getting testimony from witnesses, sorting through all of that and then presenting it over a period of months, culminating in yesterday. And I know we're all anxious to see the written report as well.

But, look, I think they made a very strong case. But as we know, as you have highlighted on the show, this is with DOJ now, and has been for a while.

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