Return to Transcripts main page

CNN This Morning

Rep. Adam Schiff (D-CA) is Interviewed about the January 6th Committee; Robert Zimmerman is Interviewed about George Santos; Toy Sales Trending Downward. Aired 8:30-9a ET

Aired December 20, 2022 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:32:45]

DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: Look, as you well know, it's an historic day on Capitol Hill. The January 6th committee referring former President Trump to the Justice Department on four criminal charges, four, obstructing an official proceeding, conspiring to defraud the United States, conspiring to make false - conspiracy, I should say, to make false statements, assisting or aiding an insurrection. This is the first time that Congress has referred a former president for criminal prosecution.

So, let's discuss all of this. Joining me now Democratic Congressman Adam Schiff, a Californian and a member of the House select committee investigating January 6th.

Congressman, we appreciate you joining us today. Thank you so much.

Why was it important for those criminal referrals? Because Republicans are framing this as legally not binding and saying that it's only ceremonial, basically downplaying the work of the committee.

REP. ADAM SCHIFF (D-CA): Well, Republicans have been downplaying the work of the committee since it began. But happily, the American people have been watching.

And it was important in a number of respects. It was important because this was an attack on the Congress, as well as on our democracy. Normally, the Congress would refer potential crimes of failing to appear before Congress, after being subpoenaed, or lying to Congress. Here this was an attack on the Congress. And we had a duty, I think, to set out the evidence that we had gathered about the threat to our democracy, how we are not out of the woods yet and what we need to do to protect ourselves going forward.

But also it was important, I think, as a matter of accountability, for the Justice Department. The American people now understand that in the view of our committee, the former president committed serious crimes that the Justice Department needs to investigate. And that - that, I think, will hopefully hold the Justice Department to the standard it set out at the beginning of the investigation, that it would follow the evidence wherever it leads. It would have only one standard of the rule of law. It would apply it equally, whether you were a former president or an ordinary citizen.

So, it's an important element of accountability.

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: Can I ask you, Congressman, why did the committee not recommend a seditious conspiracy charge?

SCHIFF: We indicated that the Justice Department, with the evidence it has, which may be additional to what we have gathered, should consider seditious conspiracy.

[08:35:08]

But we went through other offenses that we've felt the evidence in our possession made all of the links in terms of causation, in terms of the elements of each part of the offense. So we put the strongest evidence and the strongest criminal offenses forward first. But we recognize, there are other offenses the Justice Department needs to consider, include including that one.

This is not meant to be an exhaustive list by any means. And, indeed, we also point out that there are other individuals that may have come to the Justice Department's attention and ours where we didn't want to itemize necessarily what the evidence was as to individuals.

COLLINS: Just -

LEMON: So, you're saying it wasn't meant to be an exhaustive list. So this is -- I'm wondering then if you think that these are your four, you know, most - this - you -- the best evidence to support these four charges. And let me just read them off again, obstructing an official proceeding, defrauding the United States, making false statements, assisting or aiding an insurrection.

Do you think that - that is the best, and that's why those were put out there? And of those four, do you think that any are better than the other?

SCHIFF: Yes, we identified these four because we -- in looking at the evidence in our possession, thought that there was sufficient evidence as to each element of each of those crimes, and that they were serious enough that we wanted to refer the matter to the Justice Department. But we want to be sure the people understand that there are other offenses too. This is not meant to be exhaustive.

In terms of, you know, which are the strongest of those referrals, you know, there are -- and I say this as a former prosecutor -- there are times when the most serious offense is not necessarily the easiest offense to prove. And so we wanted to list all four of these. It may be the Justice Department determines that, OK, the evidence is strongest as to this statute or that statute.

I think the most serious of the crimes we allege is the crime of insurrection itself. And there I think the evidence is abundant that the president assembled this mob, that after all else failed and he's told that this -- people in the crowd won't go through metal detectors because they're armed, he nonetheless sends this armed and dangerous mob to the Capitol. And while they're attacking police officers, interfering in the joint session, he watches from the comfort of the White House dining room and refuses to lift a finger to do anything to stop it and then tells the country how much he loves these people and he's even now talking about pardons if he gets the chance.

COLLINS: Congressman, one person your committee didn't speak to is Vice President Pence. He was weighing in on what he thinks the Justice Department should do. This is what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MIKE PENCE, FORMER U.S. VICE PRESIDENT: I would hope that they would not bring charges against the former president. I don't -- look, I -- as I wrote in my book, I think the president's actions and words on January 6th were reckless. But I don't know that it's -

DANA PERINO, FOX NEWS: Criminal.

PENCE: It's criminal -

PERINO: Got it.

PENCE: To take bad advice from lawyers.

I hope the Justice Department understands the magnitude of the very idea of -

PERINO: Sure.

PENCE: Indicting a former president of the United States. I think that would be terribly divisive in the country.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COLLINS: Obviously, it was not just bad advice from lawyers. But I wonder, if Pence had come before you, what would you have asked him?

SCHIFF: Well, first of all, I think you have to view everything Mike Pence says through the prism of what he thinks best positions him to run for president. And that's, I think, a really disappointing copout that you just played. It wasn't, as you say, just a matter of getting bad advice from lawyers. He was getting good advice from his own top Justice Department people that there was no basis to these fraud claims. And what was his answer, well, just say the election was corrupt and leave the rest to me and the Republican congressmen. That is, he told his own Justice Department to lie about it and he would take it from there.

So, in terms of what we would have liked to have heard from the vice president, he was on the phone in meetings with the president talking about the joint session. The vice president understood he had no constitutional authority to simply disregard legitimate electors and instead declare somehow Donald Trump the winner. Those conversations were really important for the American people to know. And I think that, again, the vice president did a grave disservice with his refusal to testify because he certainly could have decided to testify. It's another matter about whether we could have forced him. But there was nothing prohibiting him as other presidents indeed have come before Congress after their terms were over.

COLLINS: We'll see if he speaks to the Justice Department.

Congressman Adam Schiff, though, thank you for joining us this morning to break down the findings of your committee from yesterday.

LEMON: Thank you, Congressman. Happy holidays to you.

SCHIFF: Thank you.

LEMON: Get some needed rest.

SCHIFF: You too.

LEMON: Thanks. Thank you.

COLLINS: All right, an incoming Republican congressman is under scrutiny this morning after a report in "The New York Times" that he misrepresented his background to voters.

[08:40:07]

Don's going to talk to his Democratic opponent that he beat, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: All right, you got to pay attention to this next story.

Incoming Congressman George Santos' win in New York was key in Republicans taking back control of the House, but now "The New York Times" has uncovered parts of his resume, like his education, his employment history and charity work that didn't really add up. They don't really add up. A CNN review of the claims confirms it.

[08:45:02]

So, George Santos claimed that he received degrees from Baruch College and New York University, but both schools say that they were unable to find records of anyone with his name ever attending. Also, according to his website, he worked at Citi Group and Goldman Sachs, yet both firms tell CNN that they have no record of his employment. And he claims to have founded a non-profit animal rescue operation, but the group does not exist in the IRS' searchable database or among registered charities in New York or Florida. An attorney for Santos is calling this a smear.

So, joining us now, Robert Zimmermann, who was defeated by Santos in the midterms.

We're so glad that you are here. Thank you. There's a lot to get to.

ROBERT ZIMMERMAN (D), FORMER NEW YORK CONGRESSIONAL CANDIDATE, 3RD DISTRICT: Good to be with you, Don.

LEMON: Thank you so much. Thank you so much.

A lot of questions about Santos, OK, but there is a question that everyone has for your campaign. Did your team not know about this, that his bio didn't check out? Why weren't you, you know, raising concerns to the high heavens about this?

ZIMMERMAN: Of course we knew about it, Don. And most people aren't even asking the question because we spoke to many reporters on these issues and raised these concerns to the high heavens. And that's - and that's well-established. In fact, the DCCC, Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee, put out an 87-page document about him and local media, to their credit, did cover it. "The Leader," which is a north shore weekly publication, they quoted Republicans calling him George scamtos (ph), and news -

LEMON: Let's put that up.

ZIMMERMAN: And "Newsday" - and "Newsday" also extensively addressed this -- these issues as well locally.

LEMON: Let's put that up. You say "The North Shore Leader" had reporting and questions about his finances. The Democrat Party put out his operation research saying that he was the epitome of a shady Wall Street bro.

ZIMMERMAN: Sure.

LEMON: So, did you think voters not care? Did you not hammer it home enough? Did the media not follow up? What is it?

ZIMMERMAN: Look, the reality is, of course voters cared, but getting it in front of the voters was the real challenge here. We needed the media to follow up more extensively. I thought "The Times" edit - "The Times" work was excellent. Really brilliant investigative journalism. But, in fact, we needed much more attention around these issues and much more investigative work. We had a ten-week general election campaign. We raised all the issues and more that you're referring to.

And the real issue right now here is, the real - and why everyone wants to engage in -- I know local politicians love to finger point. The only finger pointing should be at George Santos. This man is a fraudster. He's -- the allegations of fraud and corruption are well- documented in "The Times" story. And there has to be a House Ethics Committee investigation into him. And there has to also be a Department of Justice investigation.

I mean he, in his own records, acknowledges loaning his own -- documents he loaned his own campaign $700,000. He didn't have a job. Where did the money come from? And that's the real issue now to follow up. Where did this money come from? How did he bankroll his campaign and other issues about what his claims of his personal wealth are.

LEMON: But it's also up to the Republican Party to, you know, to step in and say, listen, we need to - we have some concerns about this. We need to check it out.

ZIMMERMAN: That's right.

LEMON: I don't know at this point if the Republican Party will do that. And if it --

ZIMMERMAN: Yes, what's interesting -

LEMON: Go on.

ZIMMERMAN: It's interesting, Joe Cairo (ph), who's the Nassau County Republican chairman, issued a statement calling upon George Santos to answer questions. I have, of course, the fact I - the fact that he's refused to answer any questions just documents in my view how much he's trying to cover up and the fraud he's committed.

LEMON: So, what would you like to see done? Because he has responded to this. He's only saying that it is -- you know, no doubt that "The New York Times" -- of course he has enemies at "The New York Times," but not responding specifically to the allegations in this report.

ZIMMERMAN: Of course he didn't because he can't answer the issues, the allegations of the fraud he committed, lying about his background, lying about the homes he claims he owns, lying about his employment practices.

But, you know, "The Daily Beast" has documented his former company that he worked for was shut down in a Ponzi scheme. They've also documented that he received funding for his campaign from relatives of Russian oligarchs.

LEMON: That does not name him in that scheme, though.

ZIMMERMAN: That's right.

LEMON: But the former company, you're right, was shut down. (INAUDIBLE).

ZIMMERMAN: That's right. So there's a lot -- there's a lot that's been carried by local media, but the media now has to hopefully keep the focus on the fact that, in fact, the financial corruption that surrounds him and the fraud he's committed on my congressional district, where I grew up, where I live, that is the real travesty here. And I hope Congress will not drop the ball and will make sure there's a full investigation.

LEMON: Do you think it will get to a point where there's a special election, because that is -- that would be the final outcome if he in did - if he did indeed do -- commit these things and these lies, there could be a special election here that the governor would have to call. Do you think it will get to that point?

ZIMMERMAN: Well, before you - before you get to a special election, first he either has to resign, because of the pressure of the investigation, from the exposures of the corruption and fraud that clearly is defined him as George scamtos (ph) in the media, or it's - or he has - or, for that matter, Congress removes him. There won't be a special election until either step is taken. LEMON: All right, thank you, Robert Zimmerman, appreciate you joining.

ZIMMERMAN: Good to be with you.

LEMON: What a turn of events.

ZIMMERMAN: It sure is.

LEMON: Thank you very much.

ZIMMERMAN: Thank you. Thanks for the opportunity.

LEMON: So, this morning's number is 30. Harry Enten explains. That's next.

COLLINS: Is it my age?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:53:40]

LEMON: La, la, la.

Oh, shoot, I'm on TV.

COLLINS: Yes, that's great (INAUDIBLE).

All right, right now parents are feeling pressure to get their kids the hottest new toys. Not just parents, cool aunts like me, too. A lot of these toys are often hard to come by.

CNN's senior data reporter Harry Enten has been noticing a trend with the most popular toys. What is it?

HARRY ENTEN, CNN SENIOR DATA REPORTER: All right, so let's take a look. This morning's number is -- it's $30. That's the average price of the best-selling holiday toy from 2014 to 2021. Inflation adjusted with the lowest being $6 and the highest being $72.

What is the interesting trend you talk about, Kaitlan? Take a look here at the average price for the best-selling holiday toy, inflation adjusted, it's just been $30. Look how much cheaper that is than from past years. My goodness gracious. It's far cheaper than the cheapest on this list, which was $85. So, the best-selling holiday toy has been getting cheaper.

COLLINS: And are people spending less on these toys? What's the difference in this?

ENTEN: What's going on here? OK, first off, why are these toy prices becoming cheaper? One, the use of overseas labor has led to the average price of toys to drop 77 percent since the mid '90s. Also of note, the most popular toys the last few years have been actual toys, not computers or video games, since 2014.

LEMON: Wait, what? I was - like my nieces like said, you've got to go, you've got to find this xBox, you've got to get -- what was it last year -

[08:55:05]

COLLINS: (INAUDIBLE).

LEMON: This xBox thing.

ENTEN: It was actually an octopus pushy toy last year was the most popular toy.

LEMON: Oh, my gosh. You're not factoring in the thing that's - everybody wants.

ENTEN: No, I am looking at the actual hard numbers.

LEMON: All right.

ENTEN: Just not using anecdotal evidence.

Now, if you're wondering whether or not this year the toys will the most expensive holiday toy -- the most popular, excuse me, will be cheaper than in past years? Well, keep a look here, will you spend less on holiday gifts this year because of recent economic conditions? Adults with a child under 18 say yes. Seventy-six percent say yes they will. So I wouldn't be shocked if it's cheaper

COLLINS: OK, but what are -- what have been the best-selling toys ever? Because this, I'm going to love, I know.

ENTEN: So, OK, what was the price of the best-selling holiday toy since 1982? The most expensive was the iPad at 2010 at $678.

LEMON: (INAUDIBLE).

ENTEN: Least expensive, the Troll dolls back in 1988, $5.

LEMON: And the best - the best and least expensive, the boxes the toys come in for the little ones. They love that more.

COLLINS: Yes, my nephews are part of that.

ENTEN: Cats, too.

LEMON: Thanks, Harry.

ENTEN: Thank you.

COLLINS: Harry Enten, thank you so much.

And CNN "NEWSROOM" starts right after this break.

LEMON: He didn't get the xBox and all that other stuff in there.

COLLINS: Harry got Trolls.

ENTEN: I actually had a -- (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:00:00]