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Zelenskyy: Front Lines Situation In Donbas Region Is Difficult, Painful; McCarthy Scrambles For Speaker Votes As New Congress Comes Next Week; George Santos Admits To Lying about College and Work History. Aired 8-8:30a ET

Aired December 27, 2022 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:00:00]

RON BROWNSTEIN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: We know voters were dissatisfied with an economy of high growth, low unemployment, but high inflation. All the prediction are that we're going to have the opposite in the year, much lower inflation, but higher unemployment. Will voters be more satisfied with that? What do they think about Biden's health? Do they think he's up to the job for another four years? Can either party break out of the demographic and geographic trends that we have seen that have essentially left us in something very close to a stalemate over a decade? And finally, does that Republican House do more damage to Biden through their investigations? Or do they do more damage to the GOP brand through the way they -- by potentially reinforcing this image of extremism that hurt Republicans so much in blue and purple states. There are others, but for me those are the biggest known unknowns for 2024.

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: And that last one is a great question, because you have heard Republicans, they have been basically chomping at the bit to take over the majority for obvious reasons. But with such a small majority, I've heard from Republicans who say, we're concerned about what these investigations look like and what path this goes down, and do we look like we have a strategy and we have it together, or is it going -- we don't even know who is going to be the House speaker starting next week when the new Congress takes over.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Good point. Ron, thank you very, very much.

BROWNSTEIN: Thank you, guys. Happy holidays.

COLLINS: Thanks, Ron.

HARLOW: CNN THIS MORNING continues right now.

Good morning. It is 8:00 a.m. eastern. We are so glad you're with us. It is December 27th. Welcome to CNN THIS MORNING.

All right, so we will begin with travel chaos.

COLLINS: Yes.

HARLOW: Glad you made it back. COLLINS: Barely.

HARLOW: I made it back. But we are empathizing with all of you stuck in the airport this morning. More airport chaos ahead for travelers trying to get home after Christmas, more than 2,800 flights canceled today. That is after more than 4,000 flights were canceled Monday. Travelers with Southwest Airlines really feeling the worst of it, 62 percent of all Southwest flights have been canceled today.

COLLINS: And if you're looking to rebook a flight, prepare to wait longer than normal. Southwest has just told customers they will have to wait until December 31st to rebook. Yes, December 31st, several days away from now. New bookings won't even be possible until January 3rd.

The CEO of Southwest Airlines telling "The Wall Street Journal," "We've had a tough day today. In all likelihood we'll have another tough day tomorrow as we work our way out of this. This is the largest scale event that I have ever seen."

HARLOW: So let's go to our colleague Nick Valencia, who joins us live at Atlanta's Hartsfield-Jackson International Airport. Adrienne Broaddus is standing by it Chicago Midway. Nick, Kaitlan told me a water main broke there yesterday, is that right, just to add to things?

NICK VALENCIA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes. You know, the temperatures are really cold here. And it is just adding to things. And there's alarms going off here, not right now so much. But it is just adding to this post-Christmas travel chaos that is continuing for at least one more day here. This is the line right now for Southwest Airlines. You're looking at about an hour-and-a-half, two hours to get to the front of the gate. The lines are bad, but not as bad as the stories that we were hearing.

Earlier, I spoke to a family of 10. They're the Dunagans (ph). They had planned to travel from Atlanta to Steamboat Springs until about 4:00 this morning when they got an alert from Southwest Airlines saying that their connecting flight in Texas had been canceled. They say they have a full schedule booked and at risk of missing out on about $30,000 if they don't get on their flight as scheduled.

Meanwhile, I spoke to another couple here. they've been traveling for four days. They just want to get back to Wichita. They said it has been at least that long since they last saw their personal belongings.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SAMANTHA DUNAGAN, STRANDED SOUTHWEST PASSENGER: Not expecting something like this for sure.

VALENCIA: Financially this is going to take a toll. How much could you guys potentially miss out on if you guys don't get on your flight to Colorado?

DUNAGAN: Probably 30 plus thousand dollars for a group of 10. JOHN JONES, STRANDED SOUTHWEST PASSENGER: We got off a cruise in Fort

Lauderdale since Friday.

VALENCIA: What has been the issue? How come you can't get home?

JONES: We've been Southwest. So we have been lied to. There must have been some enormous storm that covered the United States and every flight in the world has been canceled, because every flight that's been canceled has been storm related. So we live in Wichita. So if my boss is watching this, yes, it's true, I didn't just blow off the day. I'm actually standing in an airport doing nothing, and I do have a ticket, and I hope to come to work at some point in my life.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VALENCIA: The Joneses say they just want to get back home, just want to get back to work. That's how desperate they are to get back home. They do say, though, that everyone they have spoken to at Southwest at the ticket counters, at the gates, have been really lovely and have empathized with them, even if they say it's a little too much for them to bear right now because they just want to get back to where they're coming from.

[08:05:00]

Meanwhile, more and more people start to show up at the line every minute here and they're just hoping that they don't have the bad news that so many others that we're seeing and hearing from today are receiving. Poppy?

HARLOW: It's really hard on the Southwest employees, you're right, as well. Nick Valencia, thank you. Right, everyone knows, from management.

COLLINS: In Atlanta, yesterday, that water main break just contributed to the issues. There were restrooms that were just totally closed. Everyone who was trying to deal with it as competently as possible, but it was just --

HARLOW: How did you get so lucky?

COLLINS: I don't know. I booked early, yes.

HARLOW: They didn't want you to be alone.

COLLINS: I know. It's not a laughing matter. Look at Chicago Midway International Airport. It is the second on the list of most canceled flights today. More than half of the Southwest flights from there were canceled yesterday. That left hundreds of travelers trying to figure out other backup plans to get home. Some were waiting in line for hours, three or four hours for answers. Look at the baggage claim at BWI this morning. Travelers were forced to retrieve their own luggage from the sea of bags, no help from airline staff, they said.

CNN's Adrienne Broaddus is there. Adrienne, you showed us this. I'm still shaken by all the baggage that you showed us the last hour we spoke with you. What are you seeing and what are you hearing from officials at the airlines there as they're dealing with this?

ADRIENNE BROADDUS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: We'll talk about the bags and the officials later. Right now, I want to focus on the people. The people, that's who is most impacted. Like my new friend Catherine. She is going to tell us what she's been through, and why her bag, why she needs it so desperately. Catherine, thanks for being here. No laughing matter here. Almost tears.

CATHERINE GRIMM, TRAVELER STRANDED IN CHICAGO: It is. It is, because we were flying from Arizona to Chicago to go on to Albany. They told us when they canceled our flight, the second we got off the plane from Arizona, they told us that our flight was canceled. When we got off the plane, we looked around, we waited two-and-a-half to find out what was going on. Can we get a new flight somewhere to Albany? To no avail, everything is canceled until the 30th or the 31st.

So then we think, OK, they told us -- assured us that our luggage would be in Albany. We sent our daughter to Albany, because my husband and I are both on medication. So she went to Albany, and they told her there is no luggage there, and that was 6:00 last night. So, we come here, and they tell us our luggage is here, but they don't -- they can't give it to us. And I said, we have medication, we need it. We can't pull it. We don't have the manpower.

BROADDUS: And that's part of the frustration. Catherine is one of many stories. In her bag is her insulin. Those who live with diabetes know how important that medication is. And there's other people who need their medication too. Yes, some might say, don't you travel with it in your bag? You probably only have a very little with you on your checked bags, and it's also important to underscore you don't live here in Chicago. You're trying to get home to phoenix, but you're about to rent a car and drive to New York.

GRIMM: Yes, because we came from Phoenix. We tried to get back to Phoenix. There's Phoenix either. So we're driving. So we're hoping we can get a rent-a-car, which were all out yesterday. Today, this morning, they said there would be some. So we're hoping to drive to Albany. So weather permitting, we'll get there safe and we won't crash and we won't die. And we can't stop and get medication anywhere, because to stay and stand there, it's just a mess. A mess. A mess.

BROADDUS: Our hearts are with you. We appreciate you sharing your story, and this is just one element. People aren't so much concerned about the long lines anymore. They need their life saving medication. We're going to let you go. But will you give my friend Sandy (ph) on the other side your last name before you take off, because we would like to keep in touch with you. But she's just one story. I'm going to snake around on the other side. He's been waiting here -- he wanted to share his story too. Go ahead, Kaitlan.

COLLINS: Before you leave Catherine --

BROADDUS: Hold on, stand by. Go ahead, Kaitlan.

COLLINS: It's a 13-hour drive from BWI to Albany. And can you ask Catherine what she plans to do if they can't get medication, what is -- do they have a backup plan? What is -- what is her next option, does she think?

BROADDUS: So, Catherine was kind enough to wait for us. I promised her five minutes max. We kind of went over that, so I let her go. So I can't ask that follow-up right now. But she's leaving Chicago Midway here in Illinois, to drive to Albany. We don't know what her backup plan. She's likely wishing and hoping for the best. But the thing is, she says she knows her luggage is here. It is somewhere in this sea of bags. And, Kaitlan, that is what is so frustrating for these passengers because you're so close, and you can't reach and get what it is that you really need. We'll send it back to you.

[08:10:03]

COLLINS: Well, Adrienne, I see you have someone else there with you. What has his travel experience been like?

BROADDUS: So, his name is Sandy (ph). We just met a moment ago. Fill us in on your travel experience, we know you're trying to get your bags.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, yes. I was here on Saturday, spent the whole day while my flight got delayed, delayed, delayed, and all of a sudden at -- and I was actually holding on to my bag, and all of a sudden, at, like -- at -- it was supposed to go at 7:00, then all of a sudden they changed the flight time to 4:20, and I had to rush and check my bag and got there and the flight got canceled after I waited an hour getting there.

BROADDUS: So you live here, but they're still going to send your bag somewhere else?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now my bags are on the way -- they're somewhere here, they tell me, but I can't get them. They tell me there is no manpower to retrieve my bags. It's crazy. And we have been on the phone for, like, 10 hours, trying to get through to Southwest. Their computer system hasn't worked. Nothing -- it says to rebook your flight online and it doesn't let you do it. There is no information. There is no way to get information.

So I came here first thing this morning just to see if I could find my bag. And it is frustrating. It is not -- they tell me here at the baggage claim office, they say basically your bag is here, it is going to go to Fort Lauderdale, we don't know when it will go to Fort Lauderdale, and then eventually it will come back here.

BROADDUS: We appreciate your time as well. So those are just two people, two stories, but folks have been coming up to us all morning wanting to share their experience, Kaitlan.

COLLINS: I just can't even imagine what that has been like for them. Adrienne, thank you for finding both of them and talking to them to just really humanize what these delays look like. It is not just cancellations and issues waiting in line. It is medication, a 13-hour drive, no baggage. Adrienne Broaddus, thank you for that report.

HARLOW: All right, on top of all of this there is this record- breaking and very deadly storm that continues in Buffalo, New York, this morning, 28 people have died so far in western New York as a result of this storm that has brought high winds and nearly 50 inches of snow to some areas. Officials fear the death toll could rise. Search and rescue efforts are continuing this morning, so I want to bring in Buffalo's deputy mayor Crystal Rodriguez-Dabney. Deputy Mayor, thank you. I am so sorry, I mean, beyond the blizzard of 77, and a death toll at 28 now. Are you expecting that to rise?

DEPUTY MAYOR CRYSTAL RODRIGUEZ-DABNEY, BUFFALO, NEW YORK: We are. Thanks for having me. We are expecting that to rise today. We should have an update for the community midmorning. But we are expecting that number to go up, sadly.

HARLOW: A grim question, but I think a necessary one is what are -- what are most of these people dying as a result of?

RODRIGUEZ-DABNEY: Some are indoors. Some are sad stories of carbon monoxide poisoning. Some are in vehicles. And sadly, some are outside. We don't know all of the stories, but there is a combination where they're being found. We have snowbanks, and some of our first responders are not hopeful about what we're going to find once those snowbanks are cleared.

HARLOW: They think people got buried in the snowbanks in their cars?

RODRIGUEZ-DABNEY: Having walked, trying to escape the abandoned cars. We had a driving van in the city of Buffalo, people were trying to get home, and they were stuck. And so many people tried to ride out the storm in their car, but also some people tried to walk and leave their cars. So we're seeing a combination of people in cars and outside of cars.

HARLOW: I'm so sorry to hear all of that. Yesterday we were joined by the county executive of the Erie County there who talked to us about it being so bad that even some of your first responders have had to be rescued. I think that says so much. Is that still going on?

RODRIGUEZ-DABNEY: It is not still going on, but it was something that was a huge problem for us. We had rescue vehicles that were trying to get to emergency situations that were calling, saying we're stuck. And so we had rescuers rescuing the rescuers. And when the state came in, we were saying that that was a priority, that we needed to help the rescuers first so that they can go and help the public.

HARLOW: I know in the middle of this, the mayor has also said that there has been looting and has called it reprehensible. That is exacerbating the crisis you guys are going through right now, is that right?

RODRIGUEZ-DABNEY: That's making it worse, because the police who are trying to respond to emergency situations related to health now have to respond to emergency situations related to crimes. We have people who are taking TVs, we have people who are breaking into stores that have nothing to do with just basic survival. And it is reprehensible.

[08:15:00] HARLOW: Your message to anyone in the county watching right now. Is it still stay home?

RODRIGUEZ-DABNEY: Today, we do have a driving ban still in the city of Buffalo. We are still trying to clear out. We recognize that people want to get out and get moving. We ask, please, for your continued patience as our DPW workers, our public workers, our police, our fire, our national grid are trying to get out here, clear the way so that we can restore power to those that don't have it yet and so we can clean up and get the city clear.

Please adhere to the driving ban today. It is continued in the city of Buffalo. We are trying our best to get things cleaned up. And we just thank you for your continued patience.

HARLOW: Deputy Mayor Crystal Rodriguez-Dabney in Buffalo, good luck to all of you. We're thinking of you.

RODRIGUEZ-DABNEY: Thank you so much.

COLLINS: All right, on the international front, Russia's Foreign Minister has issued an ultimatum saying that Ukraine must fulfill Russia's proposals or the Russian army is going to take matters into its own hands. This as Ukrainian President Zelensky is warning about what the situation looks like on the front lines.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, PRESIDENT OF UKRAINE (through translator): Bakhmut, Kreminna, and other areas in Donbas that require maximum strength and concentration now. The situation there is difficult to painful. The occupants are spending all the resources available to them. And these are significant resources to squeeze out at least some progress.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COLLINS: CNN's Will Ripley is live outside of Lviv in Ukraine for CNN this morning. Will, you're hearing what Zelenskyy is saying about Bakhmut. He was just there last week seeing those Ukrainian forces. What else is happening?

WILL RIPLEY, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (on camera): Good morning, Kaitlan. You know, if you read between the lines, what President Zelenskyy is saying without saying it when he says difficult and painful is that there are casualties. Casualties numbers that go unreported here in Ukraine, but yet, nonetheless, the troops there are taking a very heavy hit and on the Russian side, presumably as well, because both sides have been lobbing each other with artillery. Not to mention the fact that these areas are so heavily filled with landmines that it makes it very difficult to make any advance. That's why the frontlines in the Donbas have essentially been more or less unchanged despite relentless attacks from both sides, trying to take territory from each other.

It's a very dire situation indeed. There are still millions of people without power as a result of Russian airstrikes even though the power situation has been slowly improving. But just within the last few minutes, Kaitlan, the air raid sirens went off again in Kyiv which of course has the nation bracing for the potential of another Russian attack. There are also cyberattacks that have increased threefold just in the last two years. They're saying 4500 cyberattacks targeting military targets but also civilian infrastructure so far this year. It's just a remarkable number. They're really getting hit on all fronts here in Ukraine.

COLLINS: Yes, saying essentially that Russia is doing everything that it will short of essentially nuclear capabilities and employing those. What about what we're hearing from Ukraine's foreign minister? I know that they have been saying they would like for Russia to be barred from the United Nations Security Council. Obviously, that seems pretty unlikely, but it is something that they are asking to happen.

Yes, there's actually no mechanism written into the U.N. charter to remove one of the five permanent members of the United Nations Security Council, which of course includes the United States, China, Russia, Britain. This is something that Ukraine has said that Russia doesn't deserve to be on. They don't deserve to have veto power, because essentially any resolution against Russia for alleged war crimes, any condemnation can be vetoed by Russia.

Ukraine says it's time to kick Russia out of the U.N. and remove them from the U.N. Security Council, but at this stage doesn't seem to be a realistic option even though the Ukrainians have certainly been pounding their fists at the desk for quite some time saying it's time to do something to punish Russia for its actions here in Ukraine against civilians.

COLLINS: Will Ripley, thank you.

HARLOW: Well, this morning, time is running short -- not out yet. It's short for Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy to secure the votes he needs to be elected House Speaker. One week from today, the newly elected Congress will be sworn in with a slim Republican majority in the House. And several incoming Republicans have already said they will not vote for McCarthy's bid to be Speaker.

Lauren Fox is live on Capitol Hill with more. But then the question is who?

LAUREN FOX, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT (on camera): Yes, Poppy. I mean, that is the question. Pressure is mounting on Kevin McCarthy to lock up those remaining votes. The state of play right now is there are five conservatives who have said that they will not support Kevin McCarthy for Speaker without some kind of concession. There could be more.

Some conservatives arguing behind the scenes that there are more concerns growing. But the concern right now among moderates is the fact that they are in a position and where they could go into next week and there could be multiple ballots on the floor of the House of Representatives where they could be in a position where this could take not just a day but multiple days to sort out. The concern that when they were elected in November, voters gave them the power to come to Washington to do oversight of the Biden administration. And they could be in a position where that just can't really get underway because they do not have a Speaker.

Those conservatives are calling for significant rules change where they want to empower any one member to bring up a vote to oust the Speaker at any time if Kevin McCarthy didn't do something that they wanted to do. You can understand, Poppy, how uncomfortable the Republican conference would be if Kevin McCarthy was constantly looking over his shoulder having to make every decision, knowing in the back of his mind that any member could bring up a vote to oust him at any moment.

[08:20:54]

HARLOW: Yes. And some Republicans have been saying that would literally stop business being done for either party whoever is in power, right, in the chamber because every day this could happen. Every day, one member could object and that would happen.

FOX: Exactly. And then the Democrats could use it too --

HARLOW: Right.

FOX: To delay any action on the floor, Poppy.

HARLOW: OK, Lauren Fox, thank you very much. You'll have a busy week ahead. We know that. We appreciate it very much. Kaitlan?

COLLINS: Speaking of that Republican majority, coming up, New York Congressman-elect George Santos has been speaking out now denying he's a fraud though he's admitting to lying about his education and employment history among other things.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE SANTOS (R-NY), REPRESENTATIVE-ELECT: I'm not a criminal, not here, not abroad in any jurisdiction in the world have I ever committed any crimes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COLLINS: All right, incoming Republican Congressman-elect George Santos now admitting that he lied about his education and employment history. He confessed that he never graduated from college or university after saying he had graduated from Baruch College. He also says he never worked directly for Citigroup or Goldman Sachs despite claiming that he worked for Citigroup and Goldman Sachs. He says he is sorry for embellishing his record.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SANTOS: I'm not a fraud. I'm not a criminal who defrauded the entire country and made up this fictitional character and ran for Congress. I've been around a long time. I mean, a lot of people know me. They know who I am. They've done business dealings with me. And I'm not going to make excuses for this but my -- a lot of people overstate in their resumes or twist a little bit or ingratiate themselves. I'm not saying I'm not guilty of that. I want to make sure that if I disappointed anyone by resume embellishment, I am sorry.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COLLINS: Joining us now is Michael Gold who is one of the two New York Times reporters who initially broke the story on George Santos and the discrepancies. The headline: Who is George Santos? His resume may be largely fiction. That was a story last week. That has led us to where we are now with these interviews he's doing. It's a lot more than just overstating his resume isn't it?

[08:25:10]

MICHAEL GOLD, REPORTER, NEW YORK TIMES: I think that case can be made. Mr. Santos has said that he graduated from Baruch in 2010. There's another biography of him provided by the National Republican Congressional Committee where he -- where it says that he attended NYU. He now says that he'd never graduated from any institution of higher learning. We still don't know about his educational background. That's kind of a hole there.

In an interview with The New York Post and in WABC, he said that he misspoke when he said he worked directly for Citigroup and Goldman Sachs. If you look at an earlier version of his campaign biography, he's very specific about not just the job titles there, but the order in which he had those positions. So, that's the place to start, I think, in terms of figuring out where the truth actually lies here.

HARLOW: I mean, it's where do you even begin? But one of the -- what appears to be a lie is something he said that has to do with a national tragedy, and that is the Pulse nightclub shooting, because he had claimed that four of the people murdered there worked for him. Anthony Weiner, the former New York Congressman who actually worked for WABC now asked him about this in this radio interview. I want people to listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANTHONY WEINER, RADIO HOST, WABC: Were your grandparents Hungarian Jewish refugees that survived the Holocaust?

SANTOS: I never said they were Hungarian. My grandma -- so, my grandmother --

WEINER: I'm sorry -- I'm sorry, Ukrainian. Forgive me. Forgive me.

SANTOS: Ukraine. So, my grandfather Ukrainian descent, my grandmother, Belgium. So, that's the story. He goes from Ukraine to Belgium They go to Brazil.

WEINER: So --

SANTOS: They live there their entire life.

WEINER: So, reports that your grandparents were born in Brazil are wrong.

SANTOS: To the best of my knowledge, to the best of my understanding, no, they were not.

WEINER: Got it. Did anyone who worked for you perished in the Pulse nightclub shooting?

SANTOS: That worked for me directly? No. But we did have people who were being hired to work for the company at the time who during -- I was in Florida during the Pulse nightclub shooting at a -- at another nightclub that same evening not too far away. But yes, we did lose for people who were going to be coming to work for the company.

WEINER: No, Congressman --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: What is your reaction?

GOLD: So, probably important to start with where these polls comments first came up.

HARLOW: Yes.

GOLD: In an interview shortly after the Congressman-elect won out in Long Island, he told WNYC that he -- his company at the time lost four employees at the Pulse nightclub shooting. You can hear in that interview his language is shifting now. These are for people who were in the process of being hired by the company. You know, that's a little harder to confirm for us. My colleague Grace Ashford and I reviewed obituaries and news coverage of all 49 victims who died in that shooting, and we couldn't find any four that worked for the same company, let alone one of the ones in Mr. Santos' biography.

I think that there's still a lot to explore here. We still don't know what company he's speaking of. We know that he did spend some time in Orlando and in Florida in 2016. He was registered to vote there in that election. So, I think we're still exploring exactly the nature of those claims.

You know, onto the other point, he's also claimed that his grandparents fled Holocaust-era persecution in Europe. CNN, as you know, and the Forward, a Jewish publication, have both reported suggesting that may not be the case. The Times has not independently verified or confirmed that.

COLLINS: You still have a lot of questions though, including about his finances, which was something he talked about in these interviews. Specifically, that radio interview, he talked about saying yes, he's had these financial difficulties. He's talked about real issues that if they are true, obviously, are genuine things that any other people have struggled with. But when it comes to what his finances look like, he talks about this,

but then he did loan himself $700,000, his campaign this election cycle. So, what questions do you still have about George Santos?

GOLD: I think the big question for us is where that money came from. And we're not suggesting that there's anything untoward about it. But in a financial disclosure, he filed with the house during his run in 2020. He suggested that he was only making $55,000 a year. His campaign was loaned significantly less money by him during that election. Then in 2022, he says he's making a $700,000 salary. His company, the Devolder Organization is doing dividends of one to $5 million.

We don't know a lot about what that company does. We don't know a lot about its business model or who his clients are. And obviously, when someone's serving in Congress, you want to know, you know, to who they're working with and who they're doing business with.

HARLOW: I want to give you a chance to respond to -- because every time you've done an article, including, you know, front page of The Times again today, you have asked for him to talk to you, right?

GOLD: Yes.

HARLOW: OK. And he's declined every time?

GOLD: We haven't get to speak to Mr. Santos. We've spoken to his representatives.

HARLOW: OK, because he went after you and your colleagues at the New York Times in this interview saying you've "made it there -- you guys have made it your mission to slander me." What is your response?

GOLD: Grace, and I stand by the reporting that we've done and the follow-up stories. I obviously can only speak to the stories that we've written. I can't speak to the many follow-ups that have been done. You know, one thing that Mr. Santos said in his interviews yesterday is that he denies ever committing criminal charges. There's a report that we found -- there's a court case in Brazil that we pulled up that suggests that he has admitted to a case of check fraud.

[08:30:00]