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Supreme Court Keeps Trump-Era Border Policy in Place For Now. Ex-Trump WH Aide: Meadows Burned Documents During Transition Period. Aired 8-8:30a ET

Aired December 28, 2022 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

JULES NAUDET, DIRECTOR AND EXECUTIVE PRODUCER, "JANUARY 6TH": Thank you very much.

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: Thank you, Jules.

NAUDET: Thank you.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: The documentary is "January 6th." It debuts next Thursday. You can stream it all on Discovery Plus.

COLLINS: And CNN THIS MORNING is going to continue right now.

HARLOW: Good morning, everyone. We're glad you're with us. It is 8:00 a.m. eastern. I'm Poppy Harlow. Kaitlan Collins. It is December 28th. Welcome to CNN THIS MORNING.

COLLINS: We've got a lot of news to get to today. I just can't believe this is still going on.

HARLOW: Southwest?

COLLINS: Yes.

HARLOW: Yes, and that's where we start this hour. Southwest Airlines now facing federal scrutiny as thousands of passengers remain stranded, some for more than a week. And the chaotic meltdown could continue into the New Year, if you can believe it. Southwest today has already cancelled 60 percent of their flights and the CEO now issuing this video apology.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BOB JORDAN, CEO, SOUTHWEST AIRLINES: I want everyone who is dealing with the problems we've been facing, whether you haven't been able to get where you needed to go or you're one of our heroic employees caught up in a massive effort to stabilize the airline, to know is that we're doing everything we can to return to a normal operation. And please also hear that I'm truly sorry.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COLLINS: Also this morning, the Supreme Court has decided to temporarily keep in place that pandemic era border restriction known as Title 42 amid legal challenges that the court is going to hear in February. It now could be months before those thousands of migrants whose stories that we have been telling that are desperately seeking asylum could actually get the chance to enter the United States legally.

HARLOW: Newly released transcripts from the House January 6th Committee's interviews reveal that former White House aide Cassidy Hutchinson told the panel that she said former White House chief of staff Mark Meadows burning documents in his office about a dozen times. She also told the committee there were several discussions in the White House involving QAnon conspiracies.

COLLINS: Also, Russian forces have now killed more than 6,800 Ukrainian civilians since Russia first invaded Ukraine in February. Those are numbers coming from the United Nations Human Rights Commission. It's a report that came after Russian shelling on Tuesday destroyed a maternity ward that you can see here in the southern city of Kherson just moments after doctor delivered two babies. Fortunately, no one was injured in the attack.

HARLOW: And wait until you hear this story. A woman from Buffalo, New York, jumps into action, saves the life of a man stranded on an icy street during the winter storm using Facebook Live to get him the medical attention he needed. We will be talking to the very good neighbor Sha'Kyra Aughtry just ahead.

COLLINS: But we begin with that major meltdown still under way at Southwest Airlines as the airline is now coming under federal scrutiny. More than 2,500 flights have already been cancelled today as thousands of passengers are still stranded, struggling to figure out how they're going to get to their destination, where their baggage is. Transportation Secretary Pete Buttigieg is also now vowing to hold Southwest and its CEO accountable.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PETE BUTTIGIEG, TRANSPORTATION SECRETARY: "Meltdown" is the right word. This is an unacceptable situation. You look at the number of passengers who are stranded, you look at how hard it is even to get somebody on the phone to address it. From what I can tell, Southwest is unable to locate even where their own crews are, let alone their own passengers, let alone baggage.

The CEO pledged that they will not only meet but they will exceed the customer service standards and commitments that they have made to us in the past and that we're in a position to enforce.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COLLINS: CNN's Nick Valencia is live at Hartsfield-Jackson International Airport in Atlanta. Adrienne Broaddus is standing by at Chicago's Midway Interview Airport.

Nick, let's start with you, because I know Atlanta has experienced a lot of the after-effects of this meltdown from Southwest. I know there's a ton of baggage that is there. What else are you seeing given Atlanta is the world's busiest airport? NICK VALENCIA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: More and more cancellations today,

Kaitlan. That cascade of cancellations from Southwest Airlines continues for at least one more day. And the airline has just another day of bad news.

I want to take a look at some of those numbers here because the meltdown has created, according to their data here, 15,000 flights have been cancelled since this meltdown started, and this morning, as of Wednesday morning, 62 percent of Southwest flights have been cancelled, amounting to more than 2,500 flights. It was yesterday that the CEO of the airline issued an video statement apologizing to those traveling on his airline, saying that this issue was really caused by a myriad of factors, including antiquated technology systems, shortage of staff, as well as winter storms.

And take a look at behind me here. This is the Southwest Airlines flying today. It's not many people. And that tells a real story here, punctuates just how many flights have been cancelled. Not many people in line because, really, no one is flying out today. For those that have been scheduled on flights that are scheduled to take off on time today, they're not yet breathing a sigh of relief.

[08:05:01]

In fact, earlier, I spoke to the Dispatcher (ph) family who said that they won't be happy until they finally make it back to Austin, Texas. They are scheduled to take off on time. But we also are hearing from passengers who are really taking this really, really personally. I spoke earlier to a woman who didn't want to go on camera. She was distraught, telling me in tears that she slept in the Atlanta airport for the last two days. She's trying to make it back to Columbus, Ohio. She says Southwest Airlines has not given her a refund on her ticket. She just doesn't have the money to get back home. Bottom line here, guys. Wednesday is gearing up to be another long day for those flying Southwest Airlines. Kaitlan?

COLLINS: It's expensive to have your flight cancelled. Nick Valencia, we'll check back in with you. Thank you for being there.

HARLOW: Let's go straight to our colleague Adrienne Broaddus. She joins us at Chicago's Midway, which is a big airport for Southwest. Second most flight cancellations today there. What are you seeing? We still see the bags, by the way, behind you, so many.

ADRIENNE BROADDUS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Oh, yes, bags on top of bags on top of bags, and you see staff here trying to organize those bags. I've been doing some ear hustling this morning, aka eaves dropping, and I did hear one of the supervisors say we have got to get these bags organized in a better fashion.

Right now, if you walk with me, you'll see that the bags, it seems that they're organized by destination. For example, there is a sign that says Hawaii. There were more bags over here yesterday, I would like to note at this time. There's another sign that says Wichita. Anyway, they are organizing the bags. We were told yesterday, and there was an announcement over the p.a. telling passengers if Midway was not their final destination, the crew would not pull bags. Instead, those bags that are here would continue to their final destination.

We spoke to a young lady who was traveling from Las Vegas to Chicago, she said she was stranded. Finally, when she arrived back here in Chicago, she waited in behind two hours to retrieve her luggage. Listen in.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BROADDUS: You found your bag?

LAURA CROOKS, SOUTHWEST AIRLINES PASSENGER: They let me go on in and find it myself. And Lord Jesus, just took me on up there and found them, girl.

BROADDUS: Where was it?

CROOKS: They're just out everywhere. They're all -- I had to walk, and I said, Lord, I know they're here. And I got all four bags.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROADDUS: Four bags. We did see her walking around while she was searching for the bags.

Meanwhile, we also talked to other travelers who drove all the way from Dallas, Texas, 14 hours, Poppy, to retrieve their luggage. So some progress, but certainly not perfection. And that saying "pack your patience" has a whole new meaning for a lot of folks in the middle of this shutdown.

HARLOW: No kidding. We hope it gets a little bit better by the day. Adrienne, thank you for that reporting.

COLLINS: The Southwest chaos has forced Denver's airport to cancel more flights over the last two days than any other airport in the United States. CNN's Denver affiliate reports Southwest customers there have been told more than 20,000 bags, 20,000 bags remain unclaimed. One traveler in the city approaching the turbulent situation with a bit of humor writing a sign, asking why is COVID better than Southwest? Because it's airborne.

Joining us now is Alex Renteria, the director of communications for the Denver International Airport. Alex, I'm going to guess you did not write that sign, but I know that you have been dealing with so much of the fallout of this, so have your colleagues. Ninety percent of the flights in Denver that have been cancelled are Southwest flights, we are told. But I noticed what you said to us, that throughout the storm all six of your runways remained open. You said your award-winning snow team can clear a runway in 15 minutes or less. So are you saying that the issues that you've had with Southwest, the cancellations you've seen actually had nothing to do with the storm that came across the United States?

ALEX RENTERIA, DIRECTOR OF COMMUNICATIONS, DENVER INTERNATIONAL AIRPORT: Well, there's no real way to know. Our delay and cancellation database doesn't say whether it's the maintenance of a flight or it's weather delay or if it's even maybe a staffing issue. However, we did see, due to those extremely frigid temperatures, lots of our airlines were having issues. And right now we're seeing the ripple effects of that, especially with our partners at Southwest.

COLLINS: You're the deputy director of communications, or the director of communications, excuse me. Have you ever seen anything like this before?

RENTERIA: The only thing remotely close of the bomb cyclone. Do you remember that?

COLLINS: Yes.

RENTERIA: Yes, we had lots of slumber parties at the airport, but this is beyond that.

[08:10:00]

COLLINS: And now the baggage is the issue that seems to be the big fallout that's going to be the next hurdle you have to deal with. What's the plan to try to process all of that?

RENTERIA: So the airport has given space to the airlines that have lots of luggage, including Southwest, and that's where they're organizing. So they're figuring out a process and we're supporting them with that. And our hope is that we can get folks to where they need to go. The holidays are over, and people need to get back to work.

COLLINS: Do you have a sense how long it will take to get this many customers reunited with this much baggage?

RENTERIA: We don't. But we're supporting Southwest in any way we can, including what do we need to do? Do we need to move that luggage else somewhere? Do we need to support with the sorting? So we're working on that.

COLLINS: How has it changed airport operations? I imagine restaurants and stores are having to stay open later than they typically are. What kind of an impact has it had on airport employees?

RENTERIA: Absolutely. That's a great question. A lot of staff have sacrificed their own holiday time so we could extend our hours with our shops and restaurants, and then also with our emergency teams who packed out blankets to overnight passengers, passed out snacks and water. So it was a team evident that required folks to sacrifice a little bit of personal time.

COLLINS: You talked about how the airport is working with Southwest to try to ease the pain that customers have been feeling. The CEO of Southwest, Bob Jordan, is apologizing to those who booked flights with Southwest. Do you think Southwest is doing enough to address the concerns that these flyers have? RENTERIA: This is something that we haven't seen before. I think this

is a really good lived experience that we're all going to learn from and be able to experience storms differently. How can we move forward together as one big air network. Because, as you know, once things happen in the air, it affects all of our airports and all of our airlines.

COLLINS: Alex Renteria, the director of communications for Denver's International Airport, thank you for your time this morning. I know you have a lot on your plate right now, so we're very grateful for you joining us to talk about all of this as you have so much going on.

RENTERIA: Thank you.

HARLOW: She has great attitude dealing with all of that.

The challenges are far from over this morning. For people living in Buffalo, New York, the death toll there is higher once again this morning as authorities are checking homes and cars for people stranded in this huge winter storm. We know this morning at least 31 have died in Erie County as the city of Buffalo tries to dig out from nearly 52 inches of snow and learns the true extent of the loss and the damage. Let's go to Athena Jones. She joins us live from Buffalo again this morning. Athena, a very sad morning again as these numbers go higher.

ATHENA JONES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Poppy. It is a sad morning. We just got a tweet from the mayor of Buffalo, Mayor Byron Brown, saying that there are another seven deaths in the city of Buffalo. We were talking about the toll in Erie County, and we hoped to get an update on the death toll countywide at their next press briefing, city and county officials at about 10:00 a.m. expected here in Buffalo.

But I can tell you that at least the temperature is rising. I'm not a weatherman, but this is 32 degrees, it's freezing, and it's only supposed to go above freezing in the coming days. That is something that should help somewhat with the clean-up that still continues. We can tell you that some city services are coming back. The mayor tweeting earlier about several bus lines are now going to be open, rail lines opening at 11:00, but there is still a lot of work to do.

You can see behind me snow piled up on each side of the street. You probably can't make it out down the block, but there's a man out blowing the snow. You've seen trucks driving by, trying to begin tracking that snow. But when we came in yesterday, we say a few things that were remarkable and frightening. Huge piles of snow blocking doors to various buildings, whether they were businesses or homes, and also cars buried in feet of snow. And we know that some of the people who have lost their lives in this terrible storm were found in vehicles, trapped in vehicles. So that is going to be something that authorities are going to be out looking for.

They said the last couple of days have been focused on making sure that they can clear at least one lane of traffic on every single street in the entire city of Buffalo in order to make sure that emergency operations can function, because among those deaths were people who also suffered from a delay in the emergency services not being able to get to them. That is something the city wants to avoid. And they also want to make clear, make sure that stores, grocery stores are reopened, like Tops and Wegmans, drug stores and the like, can still get their supplies that are coming in on trucks.

So the focus now today is going to be on searching these cars and checking on people's homes and, of course, clearing the roads. And part of that is because as we get closer to the end of the week, temperatures are supposed to get to the 50s. That could cause a lot of snow melt if a lot of the snow hasn't be cleared.

[08:15:00]

And so, they're making sure to strategically clear some of the snow from areas that they know have a tough time draining in order to avoid flooding. But the good news is the snow has stopped after a couple of more inches, an inch and a half more yesterday. Now, more than four feet of snow has fallen this week from that storm. And we'll see how dig out continues.

HARLOW: They have so much work ahead of them. Athena, thank you to you and your crew for being there. Kaitlan?

COLLINS: The Supreme Court has extended that Trump-era border policy leaving thousands of migrants and advocates in Mexico and the United States in a state of uncertainty and confusion. We're going to talk to the lead counsel who represents families that are most impacted by the ruling. What's his perspective? Next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARLOW: This morning, the Supreme Court is leaving in place at least for now a controversial Trump era but used by the Biden administration border policy known as Title 42. While these legal challenges play out, the policy put in place during the early days of the pandemic allows federal officials to expel migrants before they have received an asylum hearing. But the court's ruling made some uncommon allies on this issue.

Justice Neil Gorsuch siding with the court's liberals against keeping the rule in place writing a dissent with Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson. Here's part of what they write. "The current border crisis is not a COVID crisis. And court should not be in the business of perpetuating administrative edicts designed for one emergency only because elected officials have failed to address a different emergency." He goes on to write, "we are not a court of law -- we are a court of law, not policymakers of last resort."

President Biden responding to the ruling saying his administration's hands are tied. Here's what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The Court is not going to decide until June apparently. And in the meantime, we have to enforce it. But I think it's overdue. (END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: So, let's talk about this with the Deputy Director of the ACLU Immigrants' Rights Project Lee Gelernt. He is the lead counsel representing the family's subject. You're on the other side of the Republican states --

LEE GELERNT, DEPUTY DIRECTOR, ACLU IMMIGRANTS' RIGHTS PROJECT: We are.

HARLOW: -- who took this to the High Court. The ruling didn't go in your favor. But I think Gorsuch's dissent with Justice Jackson is really interesting.

GELERNT: Yes, we absolutely agree with what he said. Look, COVID was put in -- the COVID policy was put in place as a temporary measure. Its long outlived any public health justification. CDC has said that. And in fact, the states went to the Supreme Court and didn't even argue that this was necessary for COVID, just as a border management tool.

And I think Justice Gorsuch was absolutely right. If you want to talk about revising the asylum policies at the border, and we can talk about that. And we are in favor of putting in a fair and efficient system. But you can't continue to use -- misuse these public health laws.

[08:20:00]

COLLINS: So, what's the next step here?

GELERNT: Well, the next step is we'll go to the Supreme Court. We're hopeful that we'll win. But ultimately, the merits of Title 42 will not be there. And so, at some point, this needs to end. I mean, I think what people miss are two things. One is that it gives people no asylum hearing whatsoever. You see a lot of the red states say, well, look, you can just apply for asylum legally. Title 42 does not allow you to get asylum hearing, even if you present yourself legally at a port of entry.

The other point is that this is not some technical abstract policy. There is real harm going on. Mothers and fathers are being pushed back across the bridge into Mexico, holding their little children's hands directly into the hands of cartels. The Federal Court of Appeal said it's like walking the plank. There are thousands of cases, documented cases of rape, torture, persecution, even death. I mean, this is horrific what's happening.

And there's no longer any public health justification. If you want to debate border management policy. Let's debate that, but let's not misuse a public health law. That's Justice Gorsuch said.

HARLOW: Well, and he also makes the point and it's an accurate point that Congress hasn't done its job to address this since Comprehensive Immigration Reform I think in 1986, the last big, big, big one.

GELERNT: Right. HARLOW: We got it through the Reagan administration. I do want your

response to what the Republican-led states are saying here, 19 of them, who have prevailed for now.

GELERNT: Right.

HARLOW: "The greatly increased number of migrants resulting from this termination will necessarily increase state's law enforcement, education, and health care costs." They're saying we can't bear the costs of this. Do you think you -- how do you think you prevail then when the court hears that more fully?

GELERNT: Well, I think ultimately, what the court will hopefully say is what Justice Gorsuch said. If you want to talk about border management, let's talk about that. If there are policies that deal directly with border management, we'll address those, addressed the legality of them and address the public policy measurable. You can't misuse a public health that was not intended to regulate the border.

I also think people are overstating what's happening at the border. If you close the border for so long, of course, there's going to be a temporary influx of people, but ultimately, it'll even out. And the federal government has more than enough resources to deal with this.

COLLINS: Do you think they're prepared for it? If they have the resources, are they -- did they have a plan to actually use it when this is --

GELERNT: Yes, so, that's a good question. I think they do have a plan. But ultimately, I think Title 42 is acting as a crutch. And once it goes, they will then have to surge those resources. What we saw with Ukrainians, which was great, is them surging resources processing 100,000 people. We can do this. It's sort of a will -- where there's a will there's a way kind of thing. And I think there's no question they can do it.

And I think the NGOs and other states around the country are prepared to help. But we can't have a system where there's zero asylum.

HARLOW: And Lee, your position is clear. I mean, you are obviously not in support of Title 42 remaining, which means that the government -- that the people seeking asylum can just get rejected and pushed back into Mexico.

GELERNT: Exactly.

HARLOW: But what do you make of the Biden administration that initially during the campaign, in the early days, was all about repealing it, then changed when many more migrants are coming over the border and wanted it and now back?

GELERNT: Yes, I mean, we're happy that the Biden administration was on our side in this battle. But ultimately, the Biden administration has not been great along the border and that's troubling. I think, at the end of the day, we have to have some asylum system. Unless you're in favor of no one getting asylum no matter how much danger they're in, even if the persecution is racial, religious, political, you can't keep Title 42 in place.

And the other thing I would stress is that there is a system in place to move people out quickly, but it gives people -- at least it gives people an asylum hearing. So, it's called expedited removal. If you don't apply for asylum, you can be gone in a matter of hours. If you apply for asylum, it's a very truncated hearing, but at least it's some type of hearing. We think it's to short.

HARLOW: Well, it's a four-year wait for some right now. There's a historic backlog, as Rosa was reporting.

GELERNT: So, there's no questions --

HARLOW: People are trying to get these hearings.

GELERNT: Well, we're in favor of having a more efficient system. But the initial screening is very quick. That can be done in a week. And so, if you don't have a credible claim, you're gone. It's only people with credible claims that get put into the larger system. Let's reform that larger system.

COLLINS: Yes, what should the Biden administration do differently?

GELERNT: Well, I think what we can do is, first of all, put more asylum officers at the border so that it's not this kind of drawn-out procedure. But I think they can -- they need to put more resources into it. I think Congress needs to put more resources in. It's all about enforcement now. But these families, I mean, you hear people saying, well, this is a national security crisis. If you would see these families at the border, and I know CNN has been down there all the time, these families walk over the border and they just sit down with their little children wanting to apply for asylum. They're not bringing drugs, they're not a danger. And so, let's move some of the enforcement risks. horses into processing cases.

[08:25:02]

HARLOW: Lee Gelernt, thank you so much for being with us.

GELERNT: Thanks for covering this. Thank you.

COLLINS: Yes, of course, we will.

Up next, newly released transcripts they reveal explosive testimony from the January 6 Committee star witness, you remember her, Cassidy Hutchinson. Also including a White House official, her boss who was burning documents in his fireplace during a very sensitive time in the final days of the Trump administration. We'll talk to a former colleague of hers who resigned the day of the Capitol attack. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COLLINS: This morning, we're getting new insight into what happened during the final days inside the Trump White House. Former aide Cassidy Hutchinson says that she witnessed her boss, Chief of Staff Mark Meadows, burned documents in his fireplace in his office around a dozen times between December 2020 and mid-January 2021 when Trump actually left office.

Hutchinson told the committee, throughout the day, he would put more logs in the fireplace to keep it burning. And I recall roughly a dozen times where he would throw a few more pieces of paper in with it. In that same time period, Hutchinson said that Meadows instructed White House aides to keep some Oval Office meetings close hold in the period after the election, potentially leaving those meetings off the books according to one of the transcripts that was released yesterday.

So, joining us now for perspective on this is the former Deputy White House Press Secretary under President Trump, Sarah Matthews. Sarah, we should note, you resigned after what happened on January 6. And I just wonder, are you surprised at all to her hear what your former colleague testified about Mark Meadows burning documents in his office?

SARAH MATTHEWS, FORMER WHITE HOUSE DEPUTY PRESS SECRETARY: You know, it doesn't surprise me.

[08:30:00]