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Tax Returns Raising Questions About Trump Financial Dealings; Trump Tax Returns Made Public After Long Legal Battle; Buffalo Pastors Shelter More Than 100 People During Storm. Aired 9-10a ET

Aired December 31, 2022 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[09:00:13]

AMARA WALKER, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, everyone. It is Saturday, December 31, the last day of the year. Happy New Year's Eve. Good to be with you. I'm Amara Walker.

MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Martin Savidge in for Boris Sanchez and you are in the CNN Newsroom. We begin this hour with major news out of the Vatican. The former Pope Emeritus Benedict has died at the age of 95.

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MATTEO BRUNI, VATICAN SPOKESMAN: With sorrow, we inform you that the Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI passed away today, this morning at 9:34 in the Mater Ecclesiae Monastery in the Vatican.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SAVIDGE: Benedict had been seriously ill for many days. His funeral is set to take place Thursday in St. Peter's Square.

WALKER: Now, he was the first pope in nearly 600 years to resign rather than stay in office for life. He was a complicated and at times controversial figure in the Catholic Church.

SAVIDGE: Let's go now to CNN Contributor Barbara -- I'm sorry, Barbie Nadeau, I get that wrong, who is in St. Peter's Square right now. And, Barbie, I'm just curious, you know, there were a lot of people who were already in the square, and then the news breaks. So what's the reaction? What are people talking about there?

BARBIE NADEAU, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Yes, you know, it's a mixed reaction because a lot of -- some people didn't know. Some people here in Rome enjoying a day. The square is empty behind us right now because they're doing a security check, because Pope Francis is going to be coming out here in the next hour or so to visit the nativity scene there.

We've got a lot of pilgrims that have been pushed off the square. They're coming back. But the mood is very solemn, especially for those who were big fans of Pope Benedict. You know, he was very popular among the conservative, traditional Catholic side of the church. Very different sort of pontificate than Pope Francis. They're very different men.

But Pope Francis enjoyed a very cordial relationship with him. He lived inside Vatican City in a monastery for the last 10 years, and that he would visit. And Pope Benedict during that entire time, continued to write, he continued to give interviews, he continued to visit people. So he was -- it's an unprecedented time, because usually when you have a papal funeral, you then have a conclave to elect the next pope.

Of course, because he resigned, we don't have that. So it's quite unprecedented. He will be lying in state in St. Peter's Basilica on -- from Monday, and that will be open to the public. People will be able to come in and visit and pay their last respects. Then he will be given a funeral in St. Peter's Square on Thursday morning here in Rome.

And we can expect that to be a very solemn event. He will have been very involved in how his funeral will have been played out. And he was a simple man, and we were being told that the funeral will reflect his style.

SAVIDGE: All right, well, we will look forward to more reporting from you on that. Thank you very much.

And this morning, we are also mourning the loss of an American icon, Barbara Walters, the pioneering television journalist known for her very powerful interviews and a national broadcast career that spanned more than 50 years. She passed away at the age of 93. Walters was notoriously competitive in her pursuit of big-name interviews, including presidents, world leaders, and almost every imaginable celebrity. And she never shied away from asking those tough questions.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Anybody you don't want to interview?

BARBARA WALTERS, AMERICAN BROADCASTER: That I don't want to interview? You know, you and I have, people have said, well, would you interview bin Laden? Why would you give them their space?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You got it.

WALTERS: In a moment, wouldn't you?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In a second.

WALTERS: I mean, you have to kind of take -- now I'm putting on the ABC News hat. You have to try as much as possible to be objective. Now this is fading in news. I was brought up in the school of you don't give your opinions, you do the interview.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

WALTERS: And if you do the right kind of an interview, you will get the person to --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And the audience should not know.

WALTERS: And let the audience judge and the audience will know how you've --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You can do it.

WALTERS: The audience will know how you feel. But there's almost, I mean, I'm sure I'm going to go home tonight and say, oh, why didn't I say that to Larry? And I'll call you at 3:00 in the morning. But no, there's almost no interview that I wouldn't do.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WALKER: And former colleagues are already paying tribute to Walters. Oprah Winfrey posting this on Instagram, "Without Barbara Walters, there wouldn't have been me nor any other woman you see on Evening, Morning and Daily News. She was indeed a trailblazer. I did my very first television audition with her in mind the whole time. Grateful that she was such a powerful and gracious role model, grateful to have known her, grateful to have followed in her light."

SAVIDGE: In her final year, she was also very sharp and witty and the creator and co-host of the talk show "The View" before retiring in 2014. Along the way, she inspired generations of young women to pursue journalism. And she spoke about that at her retirement.

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[09:05:01]

WALTERS: No offense to you guys out there, but if I have a legacy, and I've said this before and I mean it so sincerely, I hope that I played a small role in paving the way for so many of you fabulous women who are here tonight. I can't tell you how much pleasure it gives me when some smaller young woman comes up to me and tells me of her achievements. That's my legacy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SAVIDGE: What a wonderful legacy to have. She is survived by her daughter Jackie, whom she adopted in 1968. And I was a person who always watched everything she did.

WALKER: Yes, definitely looked up to her in so many ways.

SAVIDGE: Well, Barbara Walters inspired a generation of female journalists, as we were just mentioning, including of course, our own Chief International Editor, Christiane Amanpour. And we spoke to Christiane a short while ago about the impact that Walters had on her career.

WALKER: Here's a part of that interview.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: History making, pioneering, you know, achievements will be forever etched in the history of our profession on Mount Rushmore, if you like. I was very, very cognizant, of course, of the pecking order and the pyramid of the hierarchy.

She was a friend, but she was so much way ahead of me that all I could do was really admire her, take all her, you know, mentoring and do with it what I absolutely could. She was incredible. She was inspirational for me. Even before I actually became a journalist, before I ever started at CNN, you know, more than 40 years ago, I had seen her incredible reports because they traveled overseas, not just in the United States.

We saw her in the U.K. We saw her all over the world when I was growing up. And so, she was the very first iteration of what one could be. There was this woman on television, highly successful, ground breaking, pioneering. And I thought, well, wow, you know, that's something to aspire to.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SAVIDGE: I always love to hear, you know, what people are like behind the scenes.

WALKER: Yes.

SAVIDGE: And Christiane says that Walters was incredibly kind and incredibly generous, and I would like to think that she has a bit of a kindred spirit in Christiane, she says.

WALKER: Yes. Well, we're following breaking news as well out of Kyiv, where there are reports of explosions in the center of the Ukrainian capital.

SAVIDGE: Let's go right now to CNN Senior International Correspondent Ben Wedeman, who joins us live from Kyiv. And what have you been hearing and what have you been seeing, Ben?

BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, two hours ago, Martin, we were on the roof of this hotel when we heard a series of very loud explosions. We saw some smoke rising from various parts of central Kyiv and to the south of here. We also saw contrails of outgoing air defenses.

Now, at this point, according to the mayor of Kyiv, one person was killed and 16 others were wounded on the strikes on the capital. It's still not clear whether these missiles, these Russian missiles were intercepted or some of them actually hit the ground. At this point, we don't have final information on this.

In addition to these strikes in Kyiv, there were strikes in the southern city of Mykolaiv, where six people were injured in Vinnytsia and Zaporizhzhia as well. And this air raid alert has not gone off in Kyiv. It's believed there may be more Russian missiles and perhaps drones on the way. And this is not a complete surprise. Day before yesterday, the capital and other parts, in fact, many of the main cities of Ukraine came under heavy missile bombardment. And there may be more to come before we enter 2023. Martin, Amara?

SAVIDGE: Yes, I've heard from friends in Kyiv and they had been expecting this, and tragically, it's come to fruition. Thank you, Ben. Stay safe.

WALKER: Thanks, Ben.

And this morning, we are learning more details about the man arrested in connection to last month's murder of four University of Idaho students. 28-year-old Bryan Kohberger has been charged with four counts of first-degree murder as well as felony burglary after authorities tracked him down to Pennsylvania, where he is being held without bail.

Now, he became the focus of the investigation after his white Hyundai Elantra was seen in Idaho near the area of the killings. Here's CNN's Senior Law Enforcement Analyst Andrew McCabe with how authorities likely found him.

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ANDREW MCCABE, CNN SENIOR LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: We also know that the surveillance was established in Idaho and actually followed him across the country. It's an incredibly complicated, well-choreographed ballet, if I may, of surveillance efforts that would cross multiple FBI field divisions would involve multiple surveillance teams that were following him through their own areas and then handing him off as he crossed state lines to new teams. That surveillance ends up in Pennsylvania in what is, we know, a very rural area.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[09:10:14]

SAVIDGE: There are still, though, so many questions and it's unclear whether he knew his victims, but his DNA did match to the genetic material that was reportedly recovered from the crime scene. Authorities are still searching, though, for the weapon that was allegedly used in the killings.

CNN Correspondent Jean Casarez is live this morning in Monroe County, Pennsylvania, where that suspect was arrested. And Jean, what are authorities saying today?

JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Marty. It's been a busy 48 hours and I can tell you that the defendant is housed right here at the Monroe County Correctional Facility and he has been given the chief public defender for Monroe County, which is here in northeastern Pennsylvania. So I'm sure that attorney is preparing for this extradition hearing on Tuesday. That will be the next court appearance.

And why northeastern Pennsylvania, this very rural area? Well, we heard yesterday in the press conference that this is Kohberger's home. This is the area where he is from. Now I want to take you all the way across the country to Pullman, Washington, which is close to the Idaho border. But that is where he was a doctoral student working toward his PhD first semester in at Washington State University.

It is very close to Moscow. But we do know that about 48 hours ago, the wheel started turning for that arrest warrant and then the criminal complaint to be filed. We also know that that surveillance, as he drove back home here to northeastern Pennsylvania took place and that the Philly FBI actually surveilled him for the last four days until everything was in place in Idaho and then they made that arrest.

His background is very fascinating because he just got his master's degree in May from DeSales University right here in northeastern Pennsylvania. He'd gotten his bachelor's degree and then he got his master's in criminal justice. His PhD was toward criminal justice.

CNN has also confirmed that when he was in DeSales, right here, it's about 20 miles away, this university that he actually wanted to participate in a research project that had to do with when people commit a crime, the emotional and psychological inferences that are in their mindset before it happens. So this is going to be very critical for prosecutors to show his state of mind and this is something that we have learned.

But right now, he is awaiting that hearing on Tuesday. It's in his hands if he voluntarily goes to back to Idaho to face these charges or if he will fight that extradition. Marty, Amara?

WALKER: So much we still want to know. Thank you so much. Jean Casarez live for us there in Pennsylvania.

Well, thousands of people will pack Times Square tonight to ring in the new year.

SAVIDGE: And while there is no credible threat to the celebrations, law enforcement agencies, you can bet, will be out in full force. We'll take a look at the measures in place to keep revelers safe.

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[09:16:22]

WALKER: 2023 has already arrived in some parts of the world. Take a look.

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(CHEERING)

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WALKER: That's New Zealand. Very excited to welcome the new year with the massive fireworks display over Auckland Harbor Bridge.

SAVIDGE: However, not to be outdone, Australia joining in the revelry with their own light show. A lot of thunder down under. Tens of --

WALKER: Is that the right venue?

SAVIDGE: Tens of thousands of people, of course, out there in Sydney Harbor enjoying the summer weather near the famous opera house to ring in January 1 in 2023. And, of course, here at home, New York's Times Square, synonymous with New Year's Eve celebrations for decades. The venue is back to full capacity tonight.

No port-a-potties, by the way, you should know if you're going.

WALKER: Nope.

SAVIDGE: Yes, so don't be going. And free of any COVID restrictions this year.

WALKER: You're on a roll this morning.

SAVIDGE: Yes, param pam.

WALKER: Hundreds of thousands are expected to welcome 2023. The city busy with preparations for tonight. CNN's Gloria Pazmino joining us live from Times Square. Hi, Gloria. Look, I know you're a native New Yorker. You are so excited, I can tell. What can people expect? And please include, should people bring diapers, wear diapers or not?

GLORIA PAZMINO, CNN NEWSOURCE NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Happy New Year's Eve, Martin and Amara. And listen, I know this is a controversial opinion, but as a New Yorker, I find Times Square very charming, and tonight is going to be one of those nights. And really, we are so excited because for the past two years, the celebrations here have been severely scaled down because of COVID.

But this year, all restrictions are lifted, and we are expecting a big turnout. Big crowds are going to start lining these sidewalks where I'm standing right now. As I said, no COVID restrictions. But there will be a lot of security. Every year, the NYPD makes sure that this event is safe and fun for everybody.

So that means, you know, bag screenings, security screenings. Do not bring umbrellas or large backpacks or blankets or chairs. You want to make sure that you have as little as possible on you to get through that screening.

And, of course, the big star of the show is that crystal ball. More than 11,000 pounds. It's made up of a Waterford Crystal, and it will go up at night and come down right as the New year rings in 2023. It will be an iconic celebration. The only way it can be done right here in New York City.

WALKER: OK, Gloria, no port-a-potties that we were saying, right? You will probably have access to a toilet because you're part of the media. But what about the thousands of others who are showing up? What's your best advice to them?

PAZMINO: I have none. My advice is just come prepared. You're right. I am very privileged tonight. I will have access to a bathroom, thank God. But if you are just coming here to watch, it could be hours until you get to a bathroom. So take that into account.

WALKER: We'll leave it there. Gloria Pazmino, have a great time. Happy New Year.

SAVIDGE: Yes, good to see you. Happy New Year, Gloria.

WALKER: Well, rain on tap for both the east and west coast this weekend, and most importantly, for tonight's New Year's Eve celebrations.

SAVIDGE: Yes. Those rapidly warming temperatures have also triggered flood watches for over 25 million people. Serious stuff so let's bring in Meteorologist Allison Chinchar in the Weather Center. And Allison, where are the flood warnings and concerns?

[09:20:05]

ALLISON CHINCHAR, CNN METEOROLOGIST: It's really on both coasts. You've got two separate systems here that are going to be bringing some rain showers. This brand-new system that's starting to push into the west coast, that's going to bring rain today for San Francisco, Los Angeles, all the way down through San Diego and some heavy mountain snow along the intermountain west.

The secondary system, this is the one bringing rain from Maine all the way down to Florida today. And yes, that is going to impact a lot of those eastern cities. Here we take a look. Once we get to about 06:00 tonight, good news for places like Cleveland and Atlanta finally starting to dry out there. So if you have some outdoor plans, that's some good news.

A lot of the other locations though, D.C., Boston, Philadelphia and yes, even New York still have a chance to have some of that rain in the general vicinity at the time the ball would drop tonight. So here's a look at the New York City forecast. Specifically, you've got the heaviest rain likely between 6:00 and 09:00 p. m. tonight.

The good news is temperatures will be on the mild side into the 50s. But yes, can't guarantee that that rain will be ending in time for the ball to drop, but the good news is at least it should be lighter at that point than it was prior to earlier in the day. Other areas also looking at some rain in the forecast, but a lot of good locations too. Dallas, Houston, also looking at St. Louis for some of your dry locations.

SAVIDGE: Allison Chinchar, thanks very much. We will see what the weather brings for 2023.

And don't forget, Anderson and Andy, they are back for another global celebration. We're talking worldwide. Join us live for that team and those two this evening from Times Square starting at 08:00 p. m. Eastern right here on CNN. In the meantime, we'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [09:25:12]

SAVIDGE: The January 6 Committee winding down, pretty much wound down, but not before releasing more transcript of witness testimony. The latest transcripts include Ginni Thomas, the wife of Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas.

WALKER: Yes, what was notable from that transcript was that she expressed regret over text messages to White House Chief of Staff Mark Meadows pushing efforts to overturn the election. Details now from CNN Political Correspondent Sara Murray.

SARA MURRAY, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Martin and Amara, it was another day of revelations from transcripts released by the January 6 committee. This latest batch includes the January 6 Committee's interview with Ginni Thomas, the wife of Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas.

Now, previously, we have talked about text messages that Thomas exchanged with Mark Meadows, who is the former White House chief of staff, where she encouraged Meadows and Donald Trump to try to continue contesting the 2020 election results. She offered something of a mea culpa when she talked to the January 6 Committee, saying, I regret the tone and content of these texts. I would take them all back if I could today.

That said, she still stood by her belief that there was fraud in the 2020 election, even though she said she couldn't cite any specific evidence. Now, there was another big name that came out in this latest batch of transcripts, and that was the committee's interview with Tony Ornato. He's a longtime Secret Service official who served as Deputy White House Chief of Staff in the Trump White House.

He came up in Cassidy Hutchinson's bombshell testimony when she talked about how a rate Donald Trump got when he was told he couldn't go to the Capitol on January 6. But when Tony Ornato was asked about this, he said he didn't recall Donald Trump's anger. He didn't recall hearing about anything that went down in the motorcade. There was a lot he couldn't recall when it came to January 6.

When he was asked about the events that day, he cited the fog of war and said it was a very, very chaotic day. So I don't recall those specific details. Now, even though Ornato's attorney said he cooperated with the committee and he was honest, the committee said in their final report multiple times that they did not view Ornato as a credible witness.

And the last revelation came from Jared Kushner's e-mails and testimony to the January 6 Committee. He reveals that Donald Trump had on his mind in the days after the 2020 election, trademarks. Specifically, he wanted to trademark the term rigged election, exclamation point. Jared Kushner set out to try to make that happen for his father-in-law.

Now, the committee has a few more days to release its transcripts, release the final pieces of work before it expires on January 3. Back to you.

WALKER: Sara, thank you. So, from transcripts to tax returns, we're talking about six years' worth of returns from Donald Trump's time in office. And here to help us sort through some of the findings, former U.S. Attorney Michael Moore, a partner with Moore Hall in Atlanta, and retired tax attorney Peter Faber. He advised wealthy and high-profile clients over his 50 years as a tax attorney.

Welcome to you both, gentlemen. Peter, I'll start with you. So, look, the returns show that Trump claimed large losses before and then throughout his presidency that he carried forward to reduce or practically eliminate his tax burden. That doesn't seem to be that out of the ordinary, right? I mean, as long as the losses are legitimate. But were there any red flags to you regarding his taxes?

PETER FABER, RETIRED TAX ATTORNEY: There were many red flags, but there's nothing unusual about people who are heavily invested in real estate having large tax losses. So that did not alarm me. But there are a number of red flags on the returns that the IRA should be looking at very, very carefully.

WALKER: Like what?

FABER: For example, there are a number of purported businesses that show little or no income but heavy expenses. Are these real businesses, or are they just cover ups for hiding non-deductible personal expenses? The IRA should take a hard look at those so-called businesses.

WALKER: What about the losses and whether or not they're legitimate?

FABER: That the IRS again, would have to look at. It's very common for people in the real estate business to have large tax losses. That results from incentives that Congress has put in the law to encourage real estate investment. And you could argue about whether that's good policy, but it's certainly consistent with the law and it's not surprising.

WALKER: And to you, Michael, is there there?

MICHAEL MOORE, PARTNER, MOORE HALL IN ATLANTA: Maybe, I think is the question. And it really seems right now to be just a lot of smoke and not a lot of fire. There's a difference between tax avoidance, which is legal, and that is to maximize your deductions of things under the tax code, versus tax evasion, which is actually not paying taxes, lying about things as -- in your tax forms.

But remember that Trump and his team have really an army of tax prepared pairs that have put these together. So it's not like he's sitting here sending these in himself. He'll say, well, I relied on my tax advice. I relied on these people.

[09:30:00]

At the end of the day, there's nothing particularly unusual about complicated tax returns. It might be different because we have a president we want to look at closely. But these are just business tax returns.

WALKER: It seems like it would be fine line between tax avoidance and evasion. I was looking at, you know -- I was reading through because I'm definitely not a numbers person, but when it came to the quote -- unquote "loans" that he gave to his children. I mean, they were even numbers, $18,000 of interest paid by his daughter apparently according to these tax returns by Ivanka Trump, and from his sons, even numbers to ostensibly possibly avoid the gift tax. If that were the case, we don't know that it is, would that constitute tax evasion then?

MOORE: That could constitute tax evasion if, in fact, they provided false information to put in the tax returns that could. If they've maximized or if they've utilized some loophole or some particular provision of the tax code to allow them to actually lawfully take a deduction or claim a deduction, then that's tax avoidance and that's perfectly illegal. Maxing out your 401(k), including retirement benefits, paying certain things during a certain time of the year, making charitable contributions so they may count in a certain way. Those things are tax avoidance issues.

And while, you know, they may look out of the norm for people who don't look at thousands of pages of tax documents don't necessarily mean that it's illegal. What's unusual here is how we got the tax documents, what they were claiming they received for it now, and what we get out of them.

And so, we don't want Congress or some politicians going through and counting up whether or not a loss is accurate or reflected accurately or not. That's something that the IRS does or, of course, in an investigative basis.

WALKER: Well, let's talk about the IRS. And, Peter, I mean, you know very well, you know, you're an expert on this, right? And there are a lot of techniques that are employed, especially for the wealthy and people with a lot of assets.

What do you make of the fact -- I mean, it seems like the IRS really dropped the ball on this because it has this rule of mandatory audits for presidents every year. The audit for President Trump's taxes didn't take place until more than two years into his presidency. What do you read into that?

FABER: Well, not only that, but they only initially assigned one revenue agent to audit what is an incredibly complex series of tax returns. The IRS has specialists in partnership taxation, and international taxation, and the taxation of complex financial instruments. They should have assigned a whole team to audit Trump's tax returns.

They should have done it promptly, and they should have devoted significant resources to the audit. The IRS has the big guns here. They need to be prepared to shoot them.

WALKER: And, Michael, back to your point, I'm glad you made that point of there's difference between tax avoidance and evasion. Evasion would be a crime, correct? MOORE: Right, right.

WALKER: What was also interesting was the number of foreign bank accounts that Trump has. And I think it was in 2017 it showed that U.S. federal income taxes he paid a little over $750. But that same year paid over $1 million in taxes to foreign countries. Could there be any evasion going on there potentially?

MOORE: Well, I mean, I thought that was probably the most interesting part of the tax returns and that is to see the number of foreign investments and foreign accounts and business transactions.

WALKER: Right.

MOORE: Because really for somebody in a position like a president, you're looking for conflicts of interests. You want to find out if there's some loans that are reported or not been reported.

When you run for public office, you fill out a government form that lists all of your assets, your liabilities, your accounts, those types of things. And so, that's done to make sure there is no conflict of interest with the office you hold or maybe a debtor so that you're not subject to blackmail and that type of thing or a creditor subject to blackmail.

So that, to me, was an interesting part and they could look to see, in fact, if there was a business transaction conflict with his presidency and with some decision that he was making. The fact that he's paying larger tax obligations to a foreign country doesn't necessarily mean that there's anything criminal because he's -- he may be taking advantage, simply, of the tax code as it relates to the United States.

There's nothing particularly nefarious in that. But the idea that there may be some indication about conflicts that might arise with his tenure as president that was probably the most interesting thing in the documents.

WALKER: Well, Peter, could there have been some -- you know, way to take advantage of paying taxes in foreign countries versus the U.S. because -- wouldn't that lower your tax burden then in the U.S. if you paid a significant amount in a different country?

FABER: It would. But as Michael points out there's nothing nefarious about that. If you have a business that's based in the U.S. but doing business in, say, France, it's going to pay income tax to France on the income earned in France. And in order to avoid double taxation of the same income, you get a credit for the French tax against the U.S. tax.

[09:35:06]

That's the way international taxation is structured around the world. And it's perfectly legal and OK.

WALKER: Well, thanks for breaking this down for us, Peter Faber, and to you, Michael Moore, great to see you. And happy New Year to you both.

MOORE: Happy New Year to you too.

FABER: Happy New Year to you.

WALKER: Thank you.

SAVIDGE: And still to come, as Buffalo works to recover from that history making, a deadly blizzard, stories of everyday people going to extraordinary lengths to help others are emerging. Some are just amazing. That includes two pastors that opened their doors to more than 100 people. We're going to hear from them, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PASTOR VIVIAN ROBINSON, SPIRIT OF TRUTH URBAN MINISTRY: If we didn't open up our doors and would have just kept them closed and just went on life as normal, we would have all these bodies.

PASTOR AL ROBINSON, SPIRIT OF TRUTH URBAN MINISTRY: Dead bodies everywhere.

VIVIAN ROBINSON: All these bodies.

AL ROBINSON: In our own neighborhood.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SAVIDGE: You just heard from Pastors Al and Vivian Robinson who helped rescue more than 150 people during that historic winter storm in Buffalo, New York. That is really amazing.

WALKER: Remarkable stuff. The couple who are both pastors at Spirit of Truth Urban Ministry put out a message on social media, to anyone without power, in need of a hot meal, and of course a warm place to stay. Well, of course, dozens of people arrived at their church to find refuge.

SAVIDGE: And we want to thank the pastors both for joining us this morning. It's good to be with you. What a wonderful and inspiring way to sort of talk about what was a tragedy, but also what is the wonderful human spirit that arises from it. And, if you can, Vivian, explain to us what happened.

VIVIAN ROBINSON: My husband and I we went shopping earlier that day. And, you know, normally -- like a normal family. And then, you know, as we were lying in the bed, just relaxing and looking at the posts on Facebook, I realized there were so many stories.

[09:40:02]

And I looked at my husband, I said, we're going to have to open up the doors of the church. And he said, let's do this dance. And what makes it so unique is we live here as well. So, not only that we opened up our hearts and opened up the church, we opened up our home, because we live right here.

So it was just a blessing to serve everyone in our home. You know, we did not expect it to turn out the way it did.

WALKER: I just saw the pictures of people inside. I mean, a lot of people arrived. How did people get there especially -- you know, we were talking about whiteout conditions, it happened so quickly.

AL ROBINSON: Well, the reason that people kept coming is because a friend of ours, Bill (ph) Class (ph), he has a snowmobile and he -- he assembled a team of four snowmobile drivers or operators to come down to this area which was hardest hit. We would just use our iPhones and follow the dot on our iPhones because we couldn't see in front of ourselves at all. And that's exactly what he did.

Is we went to the houses that my wife got off of social media and we just simply delivered people back to the church. And it was -- it was -- it just fell in place. Everything just fell in place really smoothly.

VIVIAN ROBINSON: And then on top of that, the people that came -- we had the first couple that came in, it was a pregnant woman and two young men that was like frozen. And -- I mean, it was like the snow was stuck to their bodies. And this woman that was pregnant, you know, that is still pregnant, thought her, her baby that they were not going to make it. So they were the first that came into our home and that was at 1:00 a.m.

And then after that, a mother was trapped. She called her sister. They -- their car got stuck. And then they called the children and everyone -- it was a whole family that was stuck. And she had arrived. She had like rings going around her ankles with blisters. Blisters going around it.

So it was like we were constantly receiving people. And a man, a strong man, I've never seen so many men cry and beards that was -- their beards was frozen and there are ice and snow stuck to their bodies. These were people that actually walked to the church before the rescue people were able to even get here to rescue the other people.

AL ROBINSON: That's right.

SAVIDGE: And you mentioned that, of course, you know, this is human intervention. But divine intervention seems to have been at play here as well.

VIVIAN ROBINSON: Yes.

SAVIDGE: The power stayed on, even though you don't have a generator, and so many others lost power.

AL ROBINSON: That's right. It was -- you know, my wife and I asked each other -- you know, we're Christians, and we are very strong in our faith with Jesus Christ. And my wife said, you know, we still have electricity, but no one else has. And I said, I wonder why the Lord chose for us to keep the electricity on.

And so, we're happy, praising God, you know? And then hours later, we found out exactly why we still have power. And it was divine intervention, make no mistake about it.

WALKER: What the two of you did literally saved lives, right? I mean, just seeing what people went through to just even get to your church.

I want to hear more about those tears because you said grown men crying. Were they crying out of gratitude, the trauma that they went through? What were they telling you?

VIVIAN ROBINSON: They -- when they came into this door and went -- and each person that came in, I embraced them. I kept giving them blankets, towels. Because, you know, they were saying, I am alive. This church saved my life.

They thought they were dead sitting -- you know, we had truck drivers that were traveling from Detroit, Michigan, people just getting off from work, sitting in their vehicles for up to 18, 19 hours, with no direction and was unfamiliar with this area. And, I mean, I have never seen so many weep and was so happy that their lives were spared. Because they truly, truly thought they were going to die.

AL ROBINSON: We had the love of Christ.

SAVIDGE: Sorry, Al, I didn't mean to interrupt you. But I just --

AL ROBINSON: No, no, no, that's fine.

SAVIDGE: We've heard so many powerful stories from people in Buffalo, who took in strangers, who rose to the demand. What is it about the people that live there in that city that makes them so aware of the other humans around them?

AL ROBINSON: Well, we are in a village called Lovejoy. It's like a neighborhood in the city of Buffalo. And here -- especially in this neighborhood, we're really, really strong in our faith. And honestly, these people are just giving.

It's natural. It's in the air. It's just -- it's what's normal for the people to show that light of Christ.

[09:45:02]

They just show it off and showcase it by pouring into others constantly. And it's rather beautiful. Especially, when you see things come together the way that they have come together, during this catastrophic disastrous storm.

People weren't expecting this. We were just thinking it's another snowstorm in Buffalo. And when that wind started whipping up, that's when it all changed.

We buckled down and we got together, and they knew where they could call, they knew who would be able to help, and protocol. I mean, we went right into protocol and got into action, really.

WALKER: Just incredible. And if we could just put up those pictures again of people huddled inside -- we have about 30 seconds, pastors. If you can just tell us, you know, as we look at the pictures of the people huddled inside your church, what it was like to be together. I mean, did you tell stories? Was there laughter? Was there singing?

VIVIAN ROBINSON: We had -- it was like one big family.

AL ROBINSON: A celebration of opening up the gift of Jesus Christ that morning, Christmas day was incredible.

VIVIAN ROBINSON: We brought out games. They played spades. They played -- they were throwing balls, and it was like one big diverse holiday.

And the people were just enjoying themselves. You know, even people that was low in oxygen, they were sharing oxygen. Baby pampers when they were running low. It's like, it was one big family. Just look at -- they were playing -- we brought the T.V. out there. They were playing --

AL ROBINSON: Xbox or PS5 or one of those things. You know, they were celebrating life. They were celebrating being alive for that Christmas 2022.

WALKER: What a way for your church to truly serve as a refuge especially for the weary. Appreciate your time, Pastors Al and Vivian Robinson. Happy New Year to you. Thank you so much.

AL ROBINSON: Thank you so much.

VIVIAN ROBINSON: Happy New Year.

AL ROBINSON: Happy New Year to you, too.

VIVIAN ROBINSON: God bless you.

WALKER: We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:50:28]

WALKER: Misery and squalor. That's what hundreds of homeless migrants are experiencing on the streets of El Paso, Texas, this morning.

SAVIDGE: And officials there are raising the alarm on the safety and public health after a packed makeshift camp without running water or proper shelter has sprouted up along a busy city street. CNN's Rosa Flores shows us now just how dire the situation has become.

ROSA FLORES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Amara, Martin, the situation here in El Paso is still very dire. El Paso city officials are concerned about the safety and public health of the migrants that continue to live on the street. Just take a look around me and you'll see that there are hundreds of migrants that are on the street, a lot of them with children. If you see blankets that are against this fence, those blankets, they lay out on the concrete sidewalk and that's where they sleep for the night. Now, the temperatures have gone up a little bit because the sun is out, but when night falls mothers that I have talked to tell me that it's very difficult for them to keep their children warm.

Now, these migrants are here because the Catholic Church turns into a shelter overnight, but there are only about 120 to 130 slots. And as you can see, there are more than 120 or 130 people. But the priest there says that he is doing what he can with the resources that he can.

Now, the buses that are out here, these are provided by the city so that some of these migrants can recharge their cellphones and get out of the elements overnight, even if it's just for a few moments. Now, again, city officials are very concerned about the public health out here. They say that these conditions are ripe for COVID, RSV and the flu to spread.

And here's what they say they are saying to make sure that these migrants are safe.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARIO D'AGOSTINO, EL PASO DEPUTY CITY MANAGER: We have people living out on the streets. It generates a lot of trash, a lot of garbage. So, we are making sure we are going through after that and cleaning it up at least three times a day. With that we have also provided porta- potties, hand sanitizing stations.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FLORES: One of the big questions is, why are so many migrants still here? Now, there are several answers. Some of them don't have friends or family that can receive them in the United States. Some of them just don't have means to buy bus tickets to get out of the area.

And then there is one other factor. Word has spread that there are interior immigration checkpoints along the border, and there are. Whenever cars cross these checkpoints, and I can tell you by experience, because I have crossed many of them, they are between 25 and 100 miles from the border, you have to declare your citizenship. So I have to declare that I am a U.S. citizen so that I can cross through.

So word has spread that some migrants have been apprehended at these checkpoints. And indeed, the border patrol chief here from the El Paso sector tweeted that more than 300 undocumented migrants have been stopped at these checkpoints, detained and processed under U.S. law.

And so, Amara and Martin, that's what these migrants are also worried about. They are worried that if they do get on a bus, they might be detained just down the road at an immigration checkpoint.

WALKER: Yes. That's why we are seeing so many people there on the streets. Thank you so much, Rosa Flores.

Well, Southwest Airlines is working to get back on track after a week- long catastrophic travel meltdown.

SAVIDGE: Thousands of canceled flights left thousands of passengers stranded in airports. CNN's Adrienne Broaddus has more.

ADRIENNE BROADDUS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Martin and Amara. Leadership at Southwest saying there is no way to apologize enough. And on Friday, we met passengers who were relieved following so many days of stress, finally they were able to see on the flight information board planes boarding and departing on time.

There were a few delays, but nothing like we saw over the last week where Southwest had more than 15,000 cancellations. But I will tell you that relief was also met with hesitation. I met a woman who said she was traveling from Chicago, Illinois, to Memphis, Tennessee, to ring in the New Year with her family. But when it came time to check her luggage, she didn't want to drop her bags.

[09:55:01]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BROADDUS: Why don't you want to check your bag?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. Because of all those bags they have lost.

BROADDUS: Are you scared?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hell, yes, I'm scared. You've seen all them bags on there that they lost. I get the numbers. They don't have no bag. I don't think it's right.

Because I've been watching the news. Now they want us to still give them our bags? Isn't that crazy or what?

I will try to go have some fun New Year's Eve. No, I am not going to let them spoil my day.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROADDUS: And a lot of plans were spoiled. One traveler told me she never made it to New York for the holiday, but somehow her bags ended up in New York. She received a call Friday morning, she says, from Southwest letting her know her luggage would be shipped to her home in Phoenix via FedEx. Martin and Amara.

WALKER: All right. Good news.

That is our time. Thanks for watching, everyone. Have a fun New Year's eve. Be safe though.

SAVIDGE: Yes. There is much more ahead with the next hour of NEWSROOM. Phil Mattingly is standing by. Have a happy New Year.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN ANCHOR: Good Saturday morning. Thank you so much for joining me. I'm Phil Mattingly in Washington.

We begin this hour watching several major stories unfolding. Catholics all around the world mourning the death of the Pope emeritus, Benedict XVI. The former pontiff passing away today at the age of 95. He was the first Pope to resign his post in nearly 600 years, stunning the Catholic faithful when he stepped down in 2013.

[10:00:00]

His death coming just days after the Vatican announced his health have been deteriorating. Much more on that in a moment.