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CNN This Morning

Bolsonaro Flees to Florida; Roberts Raises Safety Concerns; Rolling Stone Sparks Debate. Aired 6:30-7a ET

Aired January 02, 2023 - 06:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[06:30:00]

JULIA VARGAS JONES, CNN PRODUCER: To see, Don, or congratulate his opponent. In fact, he went in the other direction, challenging election results. And his supporters took to the streets demanding a military intervention.

Now, he didn't give a reason for his departure - his abrupt departure to Florida on Friday. We know that he meant to skip the inauguration. But he is being investigated in Brazil for a series of things. One of them is the fact that the mishandling of the Covid-19 pandemic. He's being investigated by Brazil's supreme court. And also there are several allegations of corruption that touched the president and his family. So, a very uncertain future for the former president, if he will stay abroad or return to Brazil to potentially face those charges.

DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: So, the question is, people want to know, I want to know, why did he choose Florida?

JONES: Unclear, Don. I couldn't tell you. We know that he has an appreciation for former President Donald Trump. There was -- there were rumors in Brazilian media that he perhaps wanted to go to Mar-a- Lago. That was never confirmed. He is staying at a house of a former MMA fighter. That's what we do know. Unclear why Florida.

It's also a place that has a lot of Brazilians. Orlando, huge Brazilian community. He was very well received there when he arrived on Friday evening to cheers and applause. You can see why he's having a good time.

LEMON: He has now become a Florida man.

Thank you very much, Julia Vargas Jones. Appreciate it.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Well, also this morning, Brazil begins saying a formal good-bye to the king. The global icon, Pele, who put Brazilian soccer on the map in the '60s and the '70s overnight, his coffin was transferred from the hospital where he died to the stadium of his long-time team, Santos, where his wake begins at 8:00 a.m. Eastern Time today. Fans from all over are expected to come pay their respects in that stadium that has the capacity to hold 16,000 people. In the stands there are flags displaying the famous number 10 on his jersey and another with the message "long live the king." LEMON: Yes. Listen, even though he had been ill, it's still

(INAUDIBLE) Pele. He's a legend.

HARLOW: A legend.

LEMON: He's an icon. It was shocking and sad.

HARLOW: Yes.

LEMON: So, the chief justice, John Roberts, expressing his concern for a judge's physical safety after one of the Supreme Court's most tumultuous terms ever.

Plus this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARETHA FRANKLIN, MUSICIAN (Singing): What you want. Baby, I got it.

WHITNEY HOUSTON, MUSICIAN (Singing): The greatest love of all.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Some people are not happy, like my BFF to my left, about "Rolling Stones" list of the 200 greatest singers of all time. The powerhouse vocalist who got left out.

Who are you most annoyed about?

LEMON: Oh my. OK. So this list - "Rolling Stone," we've got to talk. We've got to talk. I - we've got a bone to pick with "Rolling Stone."

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:37:14]

HARLOW: A judicial system cannot and should not live in fear. That is a quote from the chief justice of the Supreme Court, John Roberts, calling for the safety of judges and justices in his annual year-end report. And this comes as threats against government officials have intensified after the Supreme Court's decision to overturn Roe v. Wade.

CNN's senior Supreme Court analyst Joan Biskupic joins us now.

It also follows, Joan, the person with a gun outside of Justice Kavanaugh's home just a few months ago.

What do you make of the direction and the focus of this for Roberts? I remember a few years it was about making the case that justices are not political. Remember, we're not a Trump court, we're not an Obama court.

JOAN BISKUPIC, CNN SENIOR SUPREME COURT ANALYST: Yes.

HARLOW: What do you make about -- of this focus? BISKUPIC: Well, morning, Poppy and Don.

It's a - it's a singular opportunity for Chief Justice Roberts to speak to the nation. You know, everybody pays attention to what he says in these year-end reports. And he actually made this year's relatively brief. And even when he talked about safety, it was - it was not in a - in a big way. It was just a couple paragraphs toward the end after detailing threats to a judge back in the '50s during the era of school desegregation cases.

So, in some ways, he side stepped the things that people were most thinking about relative to this Supreme Court, the major leak of the decision to reverse Roe v. Wade back in May when the chief said that he was going to launch an investigation of this betrayal of the Supreme Court. Didn't talk at all about that. Didn't talk at all about many of the ethical concerns that have come up in -- on multiple fronts. Remember the Supreme Court doesn't have any kind of formal ethics policy. So, he avoided those things, but he did address the safety issue, which is part of the atmosphere right now.

LEMON: Justice Kavanaugh and Michigan Governor Gretchen Whitmer are officials who were both targeted this year. So, I want you to take a listen. This is what Whitmer had to say to our Kaitlan Collins. Watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. Gretchen WHITMER (D-MI): And they weren't planning to ransom me. They weren't going to keep me. They were planning to assassinate me. And the plot has been covered as a kidnapping plot.

There was one person who showed up on, you know, Supreme Court justice's lawn and turned himself in and it was covered as an assassination attempt. And so I think that when you look at the facts of both of those and you see how differently they're covered, I do, you know, have concern about the language that we use, especially when women are the target as opposed to men.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Does she have a point, Joan?

BISKUPIC: You know, it's interesting, she raises it. And I'll tie it back to judicial security in one way. There was a law that Congress passed, just in the recent weeks as the session ended, that would shield the private information of federal judges and members of the Supreme Court.

[06:40:06]

And it arose originally from a very serious threat against a female judge in New Jersey, whose son was murdered when he answered the door.

HARLOW: Right.

BISKUPIC: And that was directed towards her. I - I think that there is no way any of us should diminish what happened to Governor Whitmer, but I also don't want to minimize threats against others. When you think of Nancy Pelosi and her husband, and you think of Dr. Fauci.

So, this is a serious concern across the board. Hers, obviously, was really serious. But, again, to go back to the chief justice's report, it was important what he raised, but it was also a missed opportunity to address other things that are so important in the public's eye right now regarding the Supreme Court.

LEMON: Joan Biskupic, thank you so much.

BISKUPIC: Thanks.

LEMON: Appreciate it. Happy New Year to you.

BISKUPIC: Happy New Year.

LEMON: So, there's a growing trend of customers taking food orders that just aren't theirs and they're doing it on purpose. What restaurants and fast-food chains are doing about it, straight ahead.

Plus -

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you - wait, mom, dad, did you - did you hear this, Michael B. Jordan, dead at 35?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Uh-uh. Uh-uh. Uh-uh. Uh-uh.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thirty-five.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Uh-uh. Uh-uh.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, did you -

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: So, this is a trend, but a disturbing one that's going viral on TikTok. Kids pranking their parents, announcing the fake deaths of some of the most beloved public figures. Why one celebrity says it went way too far.

LEMON: Did -- I saw this and I did not think it was funny.

HARLOW: It's not.

LEMON: It's not funny.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:45:36]

ARETHA FRANKLIN, MUSICIAN (Singing): R-e-s-p-e-c-t. Find out what it means to me.

WHITNEY HOUSTON, MUSICIAN (Singing): And I will always love you.

MARIAH CAREY, MUSICIAN (Singing): And then a hero comes along with the strength to carry on.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: You were just listening to three of the top voices from "Rolling Stones" new list of 200 best singers of all time. Topping the list, the late, great Aretha Franklin, the late, great Whitney Houston, Sam Cooke, Billie Holiday, Mariah Carey.

Not on the list anywhere, Celine Dion. What? The magazine says it ranked the greatest singers, not necessarily the greatest voices, by originality, influence, depth of their catalog and breath of their musical legacy. Of course, there's plenty of room for debate.

So, joining us now, C.J. Farley, he's a former music critic for "Time" magazine, Moses Mendez, a culture reporter for "Time."

Hello to both of you.

OK.

C.J. FARLEY, CULTURAL COMMENTATOR: Hey, thanks for having us.

MOISES MENDEZ II, CULTURE REPORTER, "TIME" MAGAZINE: Appreciate it.

HARLOW: I feel like we're going to have a debate.

MENDEZ: I feel this (ph).

HARLOW: What do you think? Judging by the commercial break we just had.

LEMON: I - OK, so I think -- here's what I think. I will let you guys get in. I think the whole thing about voices versus whatever, I think that's a cop out because you can say that people are great performers, but if you say someone is a great singer and a great voice to me, it is the same thing. If you can sing well -- some people just can naturally sing. But there's a different between being a great singer, great voice and a great performer. We will say who I love, Madonna, great performer, right, Janet Jackson, great performer. Do they have the strongest voices? No, but they're great entertainers.

Same thing with a Cher or - you can go on and on and on, great entertainers, legends. You cannot. But can they sing like a Whitney Houston or a Luther Vandross or a Mahalia Jackson, who can just open their mouths and music comes out with just by going aahh. No.

And I think a lot of those people were left off the list. And you should - that "Rolling Stone," is great cultural influence. And when they think about this, they should take it more seriously and not sort of parse it and say this is voices versus singing, because I think that's a cop out. LEMON: All right. Discuss.

FARLEY: OK, well, I keep thinking - I keep thinking performing and singing, they're intertwined. And someone like Bob Dylan, who some people might say doesn't have a great voice -

LEMON: It's not. I love Bob Dylan.

FARLEY: But yet the way -- the way he delivers his lyrics -

LEMON: Yes.

FARLEY: The way he delivers his emotion, he's earned his place on this list.

LEMON: Yes.

FARLEY: Yes, this list has a lot of people that are missing. Tracy Chapman should be on this list.

LEMON: Right.

FARLEY: Lucinda Williams from country should be on this list. I think Julian Casablancas, who's with Strokes, should be on this list.

HARLOW: Celine Dion.

FARLEY: Yes, a lot of people should be on this list. But I think, overall, it's a great list to have because I read last year in "Billboard" that Drake, who's a great rapper, outsells all the catalog artists between -- before 1980. So anyone who's recorded music together, altogether Drake outsells all of them. That's crazy. So, people need to know the history of music. They need to know the history of these vocalists just so they can go through and sample (ph) it.

LEMON: What does that mean that Drake - what does that mean that Drake outsells them?

FARLEY: He sells -

LEMON: He also has - the difference between -- you can be a great rapper and not a great singer, but that's a different category.

FARLEY: No, but he - but he - he outsells them all together. So, I think people don't know the history of music. They don't buy catalog music before 1980. This list features a lot of people who recorded before 1980, people like Robert Johnson. So, it's great to see them out there and being part of this debate, be part of the discussion because people need to know about theist history of music, the history of vocalists, so that maybe they can sample them and say, oh, maybe this is better than stuff I'm listening to now.

So, I love this list. I love we're having this debate. And I love talking with the history of music, because it's important.

LEMON: Yes.

MENDEZ: I just think that the list is not the worst thing ever. But I think that like when we're thinking of artists now versus, you know, in 15, 20 years, it's hard to say that they are going to be, you know, the same. Constant -- artists are constantly growing and changing and their places are going to move up and down this list. I don't think that the people are mad that certain people are on this list. I think people are upset there are a lot of people left out.

HARLOW: Can we talk about who's left out?

MENDEZ: I think -

HARLOW: Like Celine Dion, Dionne Warwick, who you just interviewed.

LEMON: Yes.

HARLOW: Tony Bennett.

LEMON: That's -

FARLEY: Yes, Tony Bennett. A great guy. A great musician. He should be on there.

HARLOW: Alanis Morissette.

FARLEY: Alanis Morissette's not on there.

LEMON: Yes.

FARLEY: There are - again, Lucinda Williams is not on there. Shakira is not on there. (INAUDIBLE) is not on there.

[06:50:01]

LEMON: If you're talking about the greatest singers of all time, when you talk about when they -- the way they delivered, the emotion in their voices and just sheer talent, Judy Garland is one of the best singers ever. Where is she? Kelly -- has "Rolling Stone" ever heard Kelly Clarkson sing? They have her at 194. Are you kidding me?

MENDEZ: Yes.

FARLEY: They left out Sarah Vaughan too. Sarah Vaughan should be on there.

LEMON: Sarah Vaughan.

MENDEZ: Yes.

FARLEY: It's weird not to have Sarah Vaughan on a list like this. It's weird not to have Darius Rucker on there.

LEMON: Right.

FARLEY: I know that this tends towards the cool, people - the critics sort of name check. Darius Rucker has never been someone that critics have loved, but he has a great voice.

LEMON: Yes.

HARLOW: Why -

FARLEY: He has a lot of country music awards. He should be on this list.

MENDEZ: I think definitely someone like Cher. She's like definitely just sort of changed the way that people use auto tune as an artistic choice and not just to correct vocals and stuff like that. But I think someone like Hayley Williams Paramore, she's an incredible vocalist. We have - sorry, I'm blanking, Miley Cyrus, she's incredible. She was just at NBC doing duets with Dolly Parton and Fletcher. There was Brittany Howard from Alabama Shakes, an incredible, incredible vocalist. And - yes, that's all I can think of at the moment (ph).

FARLEY: And not to mention Harry Bellefonte is not on the list. Someone who I think is a great vocalist. If you -- ask your grandparents about him. He's fantastic.

LEMON: Yes.

FARLEY: You know, I - he should be on this list and is not. Paul Robeson, one of the great voices of the early part of the 20th century, not on this list.

So, there are a lot of missing things, but just the fact we're able to bring up these voices in this discussion I think shows the list is a good idea, it's good to talk about it, even if the list is missing some key people.

LEMON: How did like - I mean, honestly, let's just -- how did Kelly Clarkson is ranked lower than Taylor Swift? I love Taylor Swift and - but it's not possible (ph) how that works.

MENDEZ: I can maybe give some insight on how that works.

HARLOW: Yes.

FARLEY: And don't -- don't mess with Taylor Swift. Taylor Swift -

LEMON: No, I love Taylor Swift.

FARLEY: No.

HARLOW: I'm going to divert us from the -

LEMON: I'm talking about - I'm talking about singing. I'm talking about voices.

FARLEY: I think she has a - she has a voice that --

LEMON: She's fantastic, but -

FARLEY: I think communicates the ideas and the emotions that she's singing about.

LEMON: All right.

FARLEY: She's improved over time.

HARLOW: She writes it. She writes it.

FARLEY: She's one of the smartest people I've ever interviewed. And she's someone who's taken (INAUDIBLE) and (INAUDIBLE) doing the work.

LEMON: That's all well and good but that does -- what does that have to do with singing and voices? Like, I mean, let's - like Elvis.

HARLOW: I don't know. They -

LEMON: I mean can you compare Elvis to a Luther Vandross? It's like it's not possible.

HARLOW: Wait -

FARLEY: Luther should be higher. Luther should be higher.

HARLOW: Wait, guys.

LEMON: Luther - yes.

HARLOW: Wait, guys.

FARLEY: Luther's too low on this list. Luther should be higher.

HARLOW: Wait, guys. Wait.

They said this is not just about voice, originality, influence, depth of catalog, breath.

I want you to get in with the final thought on some insight into how they did this list.

MENDEZ: Yes. So -

LEMON: (INAUDIBLE), by the way. (INAUDIBLE) is not on the list.

MENDEZ: Exactly. I've done two lists at "Rolling Stone." I did the 70 best Beyonce and 100 best reggaeton (ph) songs of all time.

HARLOW: Yes.

MENDEZ: And basically what we do is we send in a ballot. And based on that ballot, the enter - the people who were entered kind of move up and down the list based on how many are voted on.

HARLOW: But who votes? Like anyone?

MENDEZ: There's freelancers, there are staff writers, there are people that they invite from the industry.

HARLOW: OK.

MENDEZ: Say like, you know, just experts, critics, anyone that's smart enough to write for this. And then it's sort of a little bit of a mixture of the person who's creating the list and the number of times people are voting for a certain thing.

So, then up and down -- it goes up and down the list. And then, at the end, we kind of look at the list and we kind of have a discussion of, you know, this should be higher, this should be lower. But I've never done a staff list because I'm not on staff. And, you know, from there those are kind of different because, you know, everybody has a different leverage on what goes there.

HARLOW: OK.

FARLEY: Basically, it's like making a sausage, you don't really want to know what goes on in these (INAUDIBLE).

HARLOW: Well said.

FARLEY: We don't want to know.

LEMON: Yes.

MENDEZ: A very long process.

LEMON: Two assignments for everyone.

So, go back and, if you can find it, watch Luther Vandross' concert from Wembley.

FARLEY: Lovely fair (ph).

LEMON: Amazing.

Go and find Judy Garland's the original, unedited version of Judy Garland at Carnegie Hall. It is - you talk - you want to talk about catalog, delivery, voice, talent, sing, dance, act, all of the above, not on the list.

MENDEZ: Is there going to be a test later? I don't think -

HARLOW: Yes. Yes.

LEMON: This is something you go - go and look at that.

FARLEY: (INAUDIBLE).

LEMON: Or go look at - if you -- people think about Michael Jackson, they think about the later years, right? Look at him when he was a child performing live on stage and the quality of his voice.

FARLEY: He's too low on this list, too, Michael Jackson.

MENDEZ: Yes.

LEMON: It's unbelievable.

HARLOW: Eighty-six. Yes.

LEMON: So, I can be (ph) Whitney and Aretha, two of my favorite singers, whatever, but, wow.

HARLOW: Control room, what are we going to play to break, Taylor for Don - Taylor for Don.

LEMON: (INAUDIBLE).

FARLEY: Play some SZA (ph). I'm glad she's on the list.

LEMON: Oh, yes.

FARLEY: I'm glad she's on the list. I'm glad (INAUDIBLE)'s on the list.

LEMON: "Kill Bill." Yes.

FARLEY: I'm glad they have a lot of - a lot of people like Toots Hibbert of The Maytals. A great reggae artist. They had a lot of great international artists. It's good to see their presence on this list.

HARLOW: C.J. Farley -

LEMON: What's her name, who died? What's her name? I'm --

FARLEY: Taio Cruz.

LEMON: No, no, a British singer, (INAUDIBLE) -

FARLEY: Amy Winehouse.

LEMON: Amy Winehouse.

HARLOW: Oh, yes.

LEMON: Oh, love her.

FARLEY: Yes, love her.

MENDEZ: She should have gone up a lot higher.

LEMON: She should have gone up a lot higher.

MENDEZ: Rosalia was way too low for me, at - like 200, but -

LEMON: Yes.

C.J., Moises, thank you both.

[06:55:02]

I appreciate it. Good to see you. Great discussion. Thank you so much.

FARLEY: Thank you.

MENDEZ: Thank you, guys, so much.

HARLOW: Thank you both. Happy New Year.

LEMON: Happy New Year.

HARLOW: President Biden returning to a re-shaped Washington on the eve of Republicans taking over the House.

LEMON: Plus, we're learning new details about the suspect who injured three New York City officers with a machete. Why he says he did it.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. KEVIN MCCARTHY (R-CA): I, for one, am excited for 2023.

[07:00:02]

One-party rule in Washington is ending and accountability is coming.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Well, the question is, but will he lead?