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U.S. House Paralyzed as Rep. Kevin McCarthy (R-CA) Faces Far- Right Revolt; Bills Player's Injure Intensifies Conversation About Football's Fate; Biden, Sen. Mitch McConnell (R-KY) to Tout Infrastructure Law in Kentucky. Aired 7-7:30a ET

Aired January 04, 2023 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[07:00:00]

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REP. KEVIN MCCARTHY (R-CA): I think at the end of the day, we'll get everybody together.

REPORTER: You failed three times. How do you possibly pull this off?

MCCARTHY: You get to 218.

REPORTER: How do you do it?

MCCARTHY: You come back, you continue what you're doing right now, talking, you solve the small problems.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: Well, they say if you do the same thing over and over --

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Insanity?

LEMON: -- and expect --

HARLOW: That's the definition of insanity.

LEMON: It is the definition, Kevin McCarthy, of insanity. It was supposed to be Kevin McCarthy's big moment. So, what the heck happened?

Good morning, America, good to see you. Poppy and I are here in New York. Kaitlan live in Washington D.C. Hi, Kaitlan, doing okay? How are you holding up there?

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: We're kind of bracing. It's like this like worst episode of the West Wing ever that we're playing out right now. We'll see what happens today.

LEMON: Yes. A chaotic day on the Hill, no speaker was elected, some in the Republican Party turned against their leader. Ahead, Kaitlan Collins is going to speak with a member who switched his vote after first saying yes.

Plus, we have Buffalo Bills Safety Damar Hamlin news, he is still in critical condition at this hour. We're going to speak with former football player Harry Carson on the dangers of the sport and what this means for the league moving forward.

HARLOW: Also, you are going to see a rare scene unfolding just a few hours in Kentucky. President Biden and Senate Republican Leader Mitch McConnell will appear together to promote a major bipartisan accomplishment.

COLLINS: But we start this hour with the historic stalemate that is playing out here in the U.S. House of Representatives. As of 7:00 A.M., none of the new members have officially been sworn in. There are no committees or new committee chairs that have been put in place and, technically, there are no rules also in place for the House. 20 Republicans at our last count had defected from Kevin McCarthy not voting for him, and this GOP revolt is putting his pursuit of the speakership for a second time in serious jeopardy.

We expect that the votes could potentially continue today at noon. We'll find out in a moment when we speak to a Republican member. But this Republican leadership drama has really paralyzed the entire House chamber. Nothing on this level has occurred in more than a century. So, yes, it is historic and we still don't know how it all ends.

CNN's Lauren Fox joins us now. Lauren, yesterday, they had these three votes, they went on for hours, and then they kind of quickly moved to adjourn after we had heard that Kevin McCarthy was not -- did not them -- he wanted them to keep voting. What happened in the hours after that?

LAUREN FOX, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, these hours are really key, right, because the day starts with this fiery conference meeting with Kevin McCarthy going in, saying I deserve this job, look at what I've done for you, how hard I've worked for us. That didn't win any votes. And we saw those three subsequent votes where he fails to get the job done.

So, then he goes back to his office, he tries to reach out to some of these folks. We also know that his deputies are trying to work votes. Because even if you don't have a good relationship with someone, perhaps someone that you're close to, someone on your leadership team might be able to reach out and change minds.

Meanwhile, conservatives are also whipping their own votes according to one of our colleagues, Melanie Zanona, that they believe that they are still trying to win over, trying to grow their conservative majority. Meanwhile, Kevin McCarthy still pretty upbeat, here is what he told our colleagues.

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REPORTER: Do you think the freedom caucus members under estimate the fact that if they put another member up that they would not be able to get as many votes as you are able to get. MCCARTHY: Look, I'm a very big fan of Jim Jordan. I'm the one that pulled him out to help him be committee chair. That's the person they're most behind. We have got ten times as many votes. But from the standpoint is we have got to find a way that we all work together. So, I don't know who else could actually put that together.

REPORTER: Are there any circumstances under which you would consider pulling out of the race for speaker?

MCCARTHY: No.

REPORTER: There's not one?

MCCARTHY: There is not one.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FOX: And the thing to watch today, Kaitlan, is going to be whether or not conservatives can grow the number of votes that they have against Kevin McCarthy. That is going to be the key telling moment here, whether or not that number starts to increase or whether we're at a stalemate.

COLLINS: Yes. It did not go the direction Kevin McCarthy wanted it to go, instead he's got more members to try to change their minds.

Lauren Fox, I know you'll stay on top of it. So, thank you so much.

One of the Republicans who did switch his vote yesterday from McCarthy to Ohio Congressman Jim Jordan in the third round.

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[07:05:00]

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Donalds.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Jordan.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Jordan.

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COLLINS: That vote surprising some in the chamber. The Republican Congressman there who is voting, it's Byron Donalds of Florida, who had voted for McCarthy on the first two ballots and he switched to Jim Jordan on this third, and he is joining us now. Good morning.

REP. BYRON DONALDS (R-FL): Good morning.

COLLINS: I imagine you had a late night last night. What is on the agenda for today? Are you going to actually vote again today when the House convenes at noon?

DONALDS: I think we should vote today again. Right now, I think, obviously, we're going to go through conversations and negotiations, trying to see if there is a pathway for Kevin to still get to 218. Now, look, I think what we need to do is have those serious conversations. What should not have done and I'm glad we stopped is have a vote-a-rama on the floor. I don't think that was in the best interest of the Republican conference and frankly for the House overall. So, there were conversations last night by some members, there will be conversations today to see if a pathway still exists.

I think the key thing for everybody to understand is you can get into the semantics about rules and committee assignments, but what this is about is having a deliberative conversation about what leadership is going to be like in the nation's Capitol in the House of Representatives. For far too long in this town, too many things have been by acclimation and that's actually not worked for the American people. So, we need to fighting for budgetary restraints, reforms, securing our border, all the things that the American people want to see, but the root of that starts in how you actually set up leadership and rules in the House. And having a deliberative process over that is actually a good thing for the republic.

COLLINS: Yes. We know there are no rules yet because there's no speaker. If you vote today, are you voting for McCarthy or for someone else?

DONALDS: That remains to be seen. I mean, a lot of this is going to be determined over the next couple of hours. Look, what I want to see --

COLLINS: Wait. So, quickly, you could potentially switch your vote back to Kevin McCarthy?

DONALDS: What I'm going to do right now is vote for who I think is in the best interest of the conference. My vote yesterday was basically to break a deadlock, because we were deadlocked and we were not getting anywhere. Right now, he doesn't have a pathway to get there. If that reemerges, yes, I can be there. That's fine. But what is necessary now is that Republicans come together and find a way to elect a speaker. We're going to do that.

COLLINS: Okay. So, you're saying you would vote for McCarthy again if it looked like he had a path forward. Do you think he has a strategy right now?

DONALDS: Not clear about that at this time.

COLLINS: Was any ground made last night in the negotiations that happened after you adjourned?

DONALDS: Very little. But I think what you're going to see this morning or maybe what you won't see this morning is there's going to be probably more conversations around that and we'll see how we get there.

COLLINS: Do you think we're at a point where McCarthy should withdraw his name from the race?

DONALDS: That's really a question for Kevin. I can't make that kind of decision for him. I don't think so, to be frank with you. I think that there's still some ways to go here. I mean, look, it's day two. Obviously, nobody has seen this in 100 years. But we're going to go through this process, we're going to get the job done and then we're going to be focused on the things that American voters sent us here to do.

COLLINS: Did McCarthy reach out to you after you switched your vote to Jim Jordan?

DONALDS: I have not talked to him yet.

COLLINS: Okay. The question, of course, is if it's not Kevin McCarthy, who could it be? Is there a viable alternative that's being discussed behind the scenes?

DONALDS: I'm not going to reveal names. There are members who are talking about different alternatives, people who might be able to find a path way to get to 218. And then from there, we'll have those discussions between members one-on-one, between groups of members, caucuses, and see how that shakes out.

COLLINS: Without revealing names, would it be someone who is inside the House of Representatives or outside?

DONALDS: I don't think there's going to be anybody from outside the House.

COLLINS: Are you still seeing attempts behind the scenes to grow the numbers who are voting against Kevin McCarthy? Clearly, you were the only one who changed your vote yesterday. Do you expect more Republicans could change their votes today?

DONALDS: It's very possible. And I think that there are members who are having -- they're having concerns right now. Obviously, people back home are weighing in on what they feel, who they feel should be the next speaker of the House. So, it's possible. Like, right now that's open to interpretation.

But I think the key thing is, going back to Leader McCarthy, is there a pathway for him to get there? Yes. Can that be worked out in the next couple of hours? Yes.

COLLINS: Is it likely?

DONALDS: Not sure yet.

COLLINS: Okay. Don Bacon of Nebraska said yesterday, referring to the 19, now 20, who are voting against Kevin McCarthy, referring to them as the Taliban 19. What's your response to that?

DONALDS: I think it's outrageous, and I like Don Bacon. But that kind of language is ridiculous. We're going through a legislative process, actually a democratic process, where votes have to be earned, not just given. And so for that language to be used, I think, is reprehensible. And I like don bacon. But what we have to do is be careful doing stuff like that. This is a negotiation, like any negotiation. And so to refer to people on the other side of a negotiation as to be essentially aligned with some of the worst terrorists the world has ever seen, I think, is outrageous.

COLLINS: My last question for you, you talked about the importance of getting through this vote so you can actually get legislation passed, start to do things like that. What does yesterday say about what it looks like when Republicans are in charge?

[07:10:02]

DONALDS: It means that we actually take this stuff seriously. We're not just going to be rolled because partnership leadership says so. It means there is going to be a deliberative process. It means there is going to be a lot of discussion. That's what the House of Representatives is.

For far too long in this town, everything has just been go along to get along. And I think those days are long over in Washington D.C.

COLLINS: Well, some would say it looks like chaos.

DONALDS: Chaos is okay sometimes. Listen, there's nothing wrong with disagreements, nothing wrong with disagreement. We are -- in our families at home, we have disagreements. So, we're not going to have disagreements here in the nation's Capitol? I think the veneer, the show of politics, have sometimes gotten people off of what this thing really is. There's always give and take, there's always negotiations, there seems to always some cliff or some leverage points happening here.

So, because there're disagreements right now does not mean that the place doesn't function. As a matter of fact, I think that the fact that there are disagreements and still conversations show that it can still function and function as it was intended to work.

COLLINS: Okay. We'll see if they get to a breakthrough today. Thank you so much for joining us. We'll wait to see how you vote today since you said you could switch your vote back. Thank you for joining us.

DONALDS: Any time.

COLLINS: Don, Poppy, you heard that, fascinating. He was the only person yesterday who switched his from Kevin McCarthy to Jim Jordan. Now, he says maybe if there is a viable path for McCarthy, he could switch back but we'll see who gets nominated today if they do vote.

LEMON: Listen, he gave it the old college try, but it was embarrassing. I mean, it's embarrassing. And you can see that Kevin McCarthy is embarrassed. You can see it on his face. He's trying to save face. But he's sitting there and over and over and over he's being told no, we don't want you. We don't want you.

HARLOW: I don't know -- we'll get back to Kaitlan in a moment -- if they are closer to making a decision. LEMON: Well, listen, as I said, he gave it the old college try. This hasn't happened in a century. 13 times in history, 12 of them before the civil war. Yes, of course, you have disagreements. But by the time you get to this point you got to get your you-know-what together.

HARLOW: They have got until noon, five hours.

LEMON: Yes. Good luck.

HARLOW: Well, this morning new details on Buffalo Bills Safety Damar Hamlin, who remains sedated after suffering cardiac arrest on the field in Monday night's game against the Cincinnati Bengals. He had just made a tackle. Hamlin's uncle described to CNN his nephew's condition right now. Listen to this.

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DORRIAN GLENN, DAMAR HAMLIN'S UNCLE: Well, his heart had went out, so they had resuscitate him twice. They resuscitated him on the field before they brought him to the hospital and then he was resuscitated on the second time when got to the hospital.

So, I just want to show my gratitude for the medical that were on him. Because if it's not for them, my nephew probably wouldn't even be here.

We were all in tears, man, and I'm not a crier, but like I never cried so hard in my life, just to know my nephew died on the field and they brought him back to life.

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HARLOW: I should note that that's Damar's uncle, also said that Damar seems to be, quote, trending upwards.

LEMON: That's good.

HARLOW: That's a little bit of good news.

Let's bring in the Buffalo Bills Beat Reporter for The Buffalo News Jay Skurski, followed the game, of course, Monday night, and following that game, he tweeted, I'm trying to process what I watched tonight, the image of a world class 24-year-old athlete getting CPR on the football field is burned in my brain. So, good morning to you, and, Jay, thanks for being with us.

Twofold question here, any other updates on his condition that you can report and any sense of when we'll hear directly from the Bills?

JAY SKURSKI, BUFFALO BILLS BEAT REPORTER, THE BUFFALO NEWS: Yes, good morning. No, that is the only official updates that we've had from the team yesterday is that he remains in intensive care and critical -- or, excuse me, in critical condition in the intensive care unit at the University of Cincinnati Medical Center.

Today is an interesting day for the Bills. We heard yesterday from the NFL that their week 18 schedule is going on as planned. So, the bills are scheduled to play at home on Sunday against the New England Patriots. In a typical week for the Sunday game, practice usually begins on Wednesday. So, we have not heard any sort of schedule from the Bills regarding practice, but if they stick to their normal schedule, we will hear from Sean McDermott and we will hear from players following practice today. Very clearly, there is a lot of interest and people are eager to hear from them.

HARLOW: I mean, you said this is going to be the biggest challenge of Sean McDermott's career, the coach, what he says, how he handles it.

SKURSKI: No question. Quite frankly, I have no idea how Sean McDermott is going to have his team ready to play a game in just a few days after his teammates witnessed. You saw the anguish, the emotion on their face on the field on Monday night. This by far is Sean McDermott's biggest challenge in his coaching career.

LEMON: Hey, Jay, I have got a lot going on here, I'm trying to study up. Did you get a condition update? Do you have any --

SKURSKI: Yes. Again, just the last official update is that he remains in critical care in -- excuse me, in critical condition in the intensive care unit at the University of Cincinnati Medical Center.

[07:15:00]

LEMON: Okay. All right, Jay Skurski, thank you very much, we appreciate that.

I want to bring in Now Pro Football Hall of Famer and former linebacker for the New York Giants Harry Carson. He's been outspoken on the dangers of football with contact sports with a specific focus on brain injuries, like CTE. Thank you for joining us.

HARRY CARSON, PRO FOOTBALL HALL OF FAMER: My pleasure.

LEMON: How are you doing?

CARSON: I'm doing well. And like everybody else in this country and around the world, sending out prayers to this young man. You don't go into a Monday night game -- I mean, you go into the game hyped and ready to play. You don't go there to be carried off on a stretcher. So, it's been very interesting watching this whole thing play out.

LEMON: As a former player, can you tell us what the team is going through? Because now they have to make a decision, they may have to make a decision to get back on the field and play and what have you, but at some point they are going to have to get back on the field and play, if not the team that they were playing against, right?

CARSON: Don, I really can't tell you what the team is going through right now, because I was on a team where we played Washington, Joe Theismann broke his leg or Lawrence Taylor broke Joe Theismann's leg. That's one thing. And everybody sort of banded together, Washington players, Giants players, and we worked together to keep Joe from going into shock. But this situation is one that has not been confronted in any way. Because you don't go into a game expecting a player to go into cardiac arrest off of a tackle. You know everybody who is on that field, they're praying for one another. They may not like each other.

I mean, you do certain things to sort of get yourself ready to play, but when you come together, you see everybody is -- when the game is over, they're patting each other on the rear end, they're exchanging jerseys. Nobody wants the opposition to get hurt. And we pray for one another before we leave the locker room and when we return to the locker room, we pray that there won't be any serious injuries and so forth. So, this is something that is definitely out of the box.

LEMON: Do you think it's too dangerous? Because you said even as a hall of famer you insisted your grandson shouldn't play football. I have a great nephew who when he was a freshman was playing varsity. Love to watch it but I worry about him. I was just reading The Washington Post as we were talking to Jay, whereas I was saying, did you get an update, it says Damar Hamlin's cardiac arrest is a wakeup call to youth sports. Do you think it's too dangerous?

CARSON: Well, football is dangerous. I mean, you have to understand that even before you step on the field, there's a possibility that you're going to be carried off the field, whether it's a knee, ankle, shoulder, back, or whatever. But you don't go in there thinking that you're going to sustain brain trauma because with the hits that you give and receive, that might work its way into CTE or some kind of concussion-related symptoms down the road.

LEMON: Well, what do you mean by that when you say that? Are you saying it shouldn't be played? Are you saying that there needs to be better safety precautions, better equipment? What are you saying?

CARSON: I'm saying that the game is a violent game. And you know that you can get hurt physically. But nobody tells you that you could get hurt from a neurological standpoint. Your brain can be changed in ways that may never -- you find out down the road what damage you may have done.

When I first stepped on the football field in the ninth grade, I sustained a concussion. And I knew I shouldn't be there and I quit, okay? The next year I went back because I didn't like that taste of quitting in my gut just to see if I could make it. And as it turned out, I wound up being a pretty good player.

But I will always remember those hits that I gave and I received on the football field. And I know football is not for everybody. And I enjoyed playing but I enjoyed the relationships that I formed more than anything else. You know, I was never really built to be a football player because I don't have that kind of violence in me to want to go out and just smack people around.

LEMON: I know it's not your decision it's his, but if you were Damar's relative, dad, what would you advise him?

[07:20:05] Would you advise him to play after this?

CARSON: If he had asked me, should my son play? I'd say, well, whatever you want him to do, that's fine. And if he asked me, you know, give me the truth, should he play, and I would say no.

LEMON: He shouldn't go back.

CARSON: He should not go back because you already sustained an injury at some point down the line, you may sustain another injury, and you might become an altogether different person than you are now.

LEMON: Wow. Harry, Honesty.

CARSON: I really don't want to be the bearer of bad news, but I've been saying this for a long time. And what America saw on Monday night affects not necessarily the fathers of young kids who want to play, it's the mothers who saw it and they don't want their kids to go into something like this.

You know, you might hurt your ankle, you might sprain your ankle or knee or whatever, but to get this, you know, mothers don't want their kids to be hurt in any way. And so that's why I became like the tyrant of my family because I knew certain things that were not being said. And I told my daughter, my grandson will not play football. He was two years old.

And I know it may have been very difficult for her husband to accept, and I said, no, I am the tyrant of this family. I will be. I'm willing to be the tyrant. I don't want him playing football. I don't want him playing contact sports.

HARLOW: What is that?

CARSON: This is a pen, but this is also a little note pad that I keep with me, and I jot down little notes.

HARLOW: And it says stop. I ask because you, as I understand it, stopped and didn't carry out tackles that you knew could hurt someone, ruin their career or worse.

CARSON: When you're on the football field and you're playing defense, there's ample opportunity to inflict a lot of damage. Because when you wrap another player up and you have another secondary player coming in, and let's say that second player coming in is me, then I could deliver a blow in such a way that, you know, that guy who's carrying the ball will feel it.

And so I became known as one of the hardest hitting football players in the league at that time. I remember O.J. Simpson came up behind me after a game, his last year, and he said, hey, Carson, I've been hit by some of the best, I've never been hit as hard as you hit me today. And I took that as kind of like a badge of honor, you know. But not realizing even though I was hitting him, I was also sustaining head trauma. And people always talk about helmets and making the game safer. There's but so much you can do to make the game safer. And always remember this, helmets do not protect the brain. Helmets protect the skull. There's no way that you can protect the brain from that kind of hits that you see on the football field. It's just not --

LEMON: We had Bomani Jones on from ESPN yesterday and from HBO, and he said trying to make the game safe is like trying to make a safe cigarette. You just can't do it.

CARSON: You can't do it.

LEMON: Thank you, Harry, we appreciate it.

CARSON: My pleasure.

LEMON: Thank you so much.

HARLOW: Thanks very much.

So, moving to politics, a rare joint appearance today by President Biden and Senate Republican Leader Mitch McConnell in McConnell's home state of Kentucky. We'll tell you why.

LEMON: Plus, more on the speaker drama and what the Republicans voting against Kevin McCarthy all have in common.

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LEMON: Welcome back, everyone, Tuesday at CNN This Morning. We are getting new details about the efforts to save Damar Hamlin's life, as teammates and the league give emotional tributes.

Plus, the West Coast bracing for what's expected to be a brutal and deadly storm. We're live in San Francisco.

And straight ahead, the former Capitol police chief is giving us an inside look at the lead-up to the Capitol attack, the response and the aftermath. Kaitlan?

COLLINS: Also today, a rare scene is set to unfold in Kentucky. You might have to blink twice. President Biden is going to be appearing alongside the Senate Republican leader, Mitch McConnell, to celebrate a major bipartisan accomplishment. They're going to be in McConnell's home state of Kentucky, on the Kentucky side of the famous Brent Spence Bridge that connects Kentucky with Ohio. It has been a focus point for many presidents. They're going to out the how funds from the bipartisan infrastructure law are going to be used for the much needed repairs to that congested crossing.

Of course, Biden and McConnell served together in the Senate for decades. They were occasionally negotiating partners when Obama was in office. But it is a very symbolic moment today. CNN's M.J. Lee is live at the White House. M.J., this bridge has this long political history. We've seen Trump there. We've seen Obama there. And now Biden is going to be there today with McConnell. But as this fight is playing out on Capitol in between House Republicans, it's also significant to show just how differently McConnell is handling things.

M.J. LEE, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes. You know, Kaitlan, this is a bridge that President Biden himself once promised to fix that connects Cincinnati, Ohio, and Covington, Kentucky, which is where he's going this afternoon.

[07:30:00]

And it is one of the busiest freight routes in the country and that officials say cares carries double the traffic that it has meant to support.